Help I am totally confused and do not know what to do

Ed Sirret says the following on 2004-10-14

In the Gas Fitting FAQ below you will still that the use of a flexible
hose is deprecated (and almost impossible to install in a compliant
manner
for the supply of an inset hob).
As of 20th November the loop hole which permitted the use of flexibles
is
closed with a revision to BS 6172.

I have just purchased a gas hob (inset into worktop) from B and Q
Sterling BGH1

the installation instructions state

Natural Gas
the appliance is designed for UK installation using a flexible
connection with tubing in accordance with the regulations inforce
length of 900mm is recommended.

Sterling customer services tell me the following
they have never heard of this.
The hob only started to be sold at the end of last year
The print date on the instructions is 11-10-2004

What do I do?
Which is the correct way of fitting this?
Are there any insurance implecations of fitting not in accordance with
manufacturers design
What would a Ed do?
What would any other corgi Fitter do?
Does anyone have the exact text for BS 6172:2004 as I cannot find it
Who do I alert if Sterling are wrong?
Where are you based Ed?
email to phil AT nimbusweb DOT co DOT uk please
regards Phil

Phil wrote:
Help I am totally confused and do not know what to do

Don't you just hate it when that happens?

Ed Sirret says the following on 2004-10-14

In the Gas Fitting FAQ below you will still that the use of a
flexible hose is deprecated (and almost impossible to install in a
compliant manner for the supply of an inset hob). As of 20th November
the loop hole which permitted the use of flexibles is closed with a
revision to BS 6172.

I have just purchased a gas hob (inset into worktop) from B and Q
Sterling BGH1

the installation instructions state

Natural Gas the appliance is designed for UK installation using a
flexible connection with tubing in accordance with the regulations
inforce length of 900mm is recommended.

The confusion doesn't surprise me in the least. I'm have no doubt that
Ed's FAQ is correct, but if you want reassurance
why not just phone CORGI direct? See
http://www.corgi-gas-safety.com/sect...acts/corgi.asp (although
having said that, last time I phoned CORGI about a regs query, I got a
different answer each time I phoned them!)

Does anyone have the exact text for BS 6172:2004 as I cannot find it

Available in libraries, but you won't find it online without paying 60
quid(?) for a pdf file from the BS website - something which never fails
to irritate me. Why should we be told by the Powers That Be that to do
some task legally we have to comply with BSxxxx, but then we can't find
out what BSxxxx actually says?!

David

Phil typed:

snip

Sterling customer services tell me the following
they have never heard of this.


Never mind all that, if you ever intend using and sleeping in this house
which of the two fitting alternatives seem safest. ?

--
Mark§

On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 07:26:54 -0800, Phil wrote:

Help I am totally confused and do not know what to do

Ed Sirret says the following on 2004-10-14

In the Gas Fitting FAQ below you will still that the use of a flexible
hose is deprecated (and almost impossible to install in a compliant
manner
for the supply of an inset hob).
As of 20th November the loop hole which permitted the use of flexibles
is
closed with a revision to BS 6172.

I have just purchased a gas hob (inset into worktop) from B and Q
Sterling BGH1

the installation instructions state

Natural Gas
the appliance is designed for UK installation using a flexible
connection with tubing in accordance with the regulations inforce
length of 900mm is recommended.

Sterling customer services tell me the following
they have never heard of this.
The hob only started to be sold at the end of last year
The print date on the instructions is 11-10-2004

What do I do?
Which is the correct way of fitting this?
Are there any insurance implecations of fitting not in accordance with
manufacturers design
What would a Ed do?
What would any other corgi Fitter do?
Does anyone have the exact text for BS 6172:2004 as I cannot find it
Who do I alert if Sterling are wrong?
Where are you based Ed?
email to phil AT nimbusweb DOT co DOT uk please
regards Phil

This does seem anomalous - the regulations in force being that you
should not use a flexible gas hose for a fixed inset hob!

However the general requirements for the installation of an appliance
supplied by a hose would still apply - and I say in the FAQ they are quite
restrictive:
Not going to be disturbed.
Not in contact with anything that might become over 70C
Hanging in a neat unstrained U shape.

What I would do depends if the instruction explicitly forbid the use of
rigid pipework - then I would ask the manufacturers for clarification.
Perhaps the hob is designed to be easily removed from the worktop? Why?


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

Phil wrote:

Ed Sirret says the following on 2004-10-14

In the Gas Fitting FAQ below you will still that the use of a
flexible hose is deprecated (and almost impossible to install in a
compliant manner for the supply of an inset hob). As of 20th November
the loop hole which permitted the use of flexibles is closed with a
revision to BS 6172.

Sterling customer services tell me the following they have never
heard of this. The hob only started to be sold at the end of last
year The print date on the instructions is 11-10-2004

Further to my earlier post on the above, I just came across an
*unsubstantiated* quote from the trade rag "Gas Installer" stating that
a hob connection has to be rigid *unless otherwise stated by the
appliance manufacturers*!

Ed, or somebody else who has access to back issues of Gas Installer,
could you confirm this? Isn't mentioned in the FAQ... if it's true, it
strikes me as a total joke, because in the OP's scenario it means that a
flexible hose must be used, notwithstanding the fact that the
manufacturer is apparently unaware of the change in regs which states
that a rigid connection must be used...!!

David

Phil wrote:
Help I am totally confused and do not know what to do

Ed Sirret says the following on 2004-10-14

In the Gas Fitting FAQ below you will still that the use of a flexible
hose is deprecated (and almost impossible to install in a compliant
manner
for the supply of an inset hob).
As of 20th November the loop hole which permitted the use of flexibles
is
closed with a revision to BS 6172.

I have just purchased a gas hob (inset into worktop) from B and Q
Sterling BGH1

the installation instructions state

Natural Gas
the appliance is designed for UK installation using a flexible
connection with tubing in accordance with the regulations inforce
length of 900mm is recommended.

Does it specifically state (or imply) that a rigid connection is prohibited?

Sterling customer services tell me the following
they have never heard of this.
The hob only started to be sold at the end of last year
The print date on the instructions is 11-10-2004

What do I do?
Which is the correct way of fitting this?
As per the manufacturer's instructions
Are there any insurance implecations of fitting not in accordance with
manufacturers design
What would a Ed do?
What would any other corgi Fitter do?

Scratch head, mutter incantations in gasinstallerese, burn
incense^H^H^H^H^Hsmoke pellet, ask corgi tech info line 3 times and take
majority opinion :-)

Does anyone have the exact text for BS 6172:2004 as I cannot find it

11 Gas Connections

11.1 General
....
11.1.3 Unless stated otherwise in the manufacturer's instructions, a gas
hob shall be connected to the termination point by a rigid fixed
connection.
....
11.1.5 Any flexible connector shall not be subjected to direct exposure
to hot flue products or to contact with hot surfaces (see also 11.4).
11.1.6 Where rigid pipework is used, an isolation valve with means of
disconnection shall be provided.

11.2 Connections for 2nd family gases
11.2.1 The gas installation pipe to the termination point shall conform
to BS 6891 or IGE/UP/2 [17], as appropriate.
11.2.2 Any flexible connector shall conform to BS 669-1 or BS 669-2, as
applicable.
COMMENTARY AND RECOMMENDATIONS ON 11.2.2 The flexible connector should
be installed such that it cannot be subjected to undue forces either in
anticipated normal use or whilst being connected or disconnected. The
flexible connector should be positioned in such a way that it will not
suffer mechanical damage by being trapped by a stability device (see
Clause 12).

11.2.3 The location of the termination point shall be in accordance with
the cooking appliance manufacturer s instructions, where this is specified.
COMMENTARY AND RECOMMENDATIONS ON 11.2.3
The termination point should be permanently attached to a firmly fixed
gas installation pipe and positioned such that the flexible connector
hose hangs freely downwards. The termination point should be securely
fixed to the wall by means of a backplate adaptor or suitable
alternative. The termination point should be securely fixed to the wall
immediately behind the appliance at a height of approximately 750 mm
from the floor, unless otherwise specified by the manufacturer. The
termination point should be accessible for disconnection after moving
the cooking appliance.

John Stumbles wrote:
Phil wrote:

Does anyone have the exact text for BS 6172:2004 as I cannot find it

11.1.3 Unless stated otherwise in the manufacturer's instructions, a gas
hob shall be connected to the termination point by a rigid fixed
connection.

Ah - that substantiates the 'unsubstantiated' quote in my previous post
to this thread. So give that in the OP's case, the mfr has never even
heard of the 'rigid connection' regs, it is barmy that the mfr's
instructions take precedence. (Isn't it?)

David

On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 14:54:32 +0000, Lobster wrote:

John Stumbles wrote:
Phil wrote:

Does anyone have the exact text for BS 6172:2004 as I cannot find it

11.1.3 Unless stated otherwise in the manufacturer's instructions, a gas
hob shall be connected to the termination point by a rigid fixed
connection.

Ah - that substantiates the 'unsubstantiated' quote in my previous post
to this thread. So give that in the OP's case, the mfr has never even
heard of the 'rigid connection' regs, it is barmy that the mfr's
instructions take precedence. (Isn't it?)

AIUI the manufacturers instructions 'trump' the regs. I suppose this is to
allow for an appliance which out-performs the rest of the field in some
respect [1]. However in the case of this inset hob we seem to have the
opposite case where the manufacturers require the installation to be less
than best practice. Crazy.


[1] For instance the clearances to most modern boilers casings from
combustible materials are substantially less than the 75mm (IIRC) required
in the regs.
--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html