Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Andrew Chesters wrote:

A really nicely thought out, but unfortunately unfused, connector is the
Neutric PowerCon. This is starting to be found on pro sound & lighting
equipment. 20A, small and it locks in place too!


Which probably outlaws it for domestic use?

Don't know. It'd be a damned shame if it did. :-(

"Harvey Van Sickle" wrote in message
...
On 20 Feb 2005, Owain wrote

NT wrote
OTOH replacing a socket, which any diy competent could do,

until 31st December last year ...

And still can, as long as it's not in a kitchen or bathroom.


Care to expand on that, Harvey? I must have missed that.
The W*****s of Westminster strike again.

Regards
Ian

In article ,
Andrew Chesters wrote:
Why? Small and cheap and ideal for high density low power use - like
Hi-Fi etc. The line connectors can be fiddly to fit but ok when you
get the knack.

Miserable to wire-up, compared to almost anything, and they get
pulled/fall out when you least expect it.

I'd agree about the wiring until you develop a technique, but fall out?
They're extremely common in broadcasting where such things matter. ;-)

--
*You never really learn to swear until you learn to drive *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 20 Feb 2005, Ian wrote


"Harvey Van Sickle" wrote in message
...
On 20 Feb 2005, Owain wrote

NT wrote
OTOH replacing a socket, which any diy competent could do,

until 31st December last year ...

And still can, as long as it's not in a kitchen or bathroom.


Care to expand on that, Harvey? I must have missed that.
The W*****s of Westminster strike again.

Sorry - my error. (I was thinking of "adding" rather than "replacing"
a socket, which is where the "notifiable in kitchens, etc." comes into
play.)

--
Cheers,
Harvey

Andrew Chesters wrote:

3) Having written that, I concede that I don't like BS1363 plugs, have a
lot of dealing with 15A roundpin (and every so often some muppet claims
that they are "illegal"), I loath CEE form and would certainly not like
to rewire everything on a spur like Europe; and don't get me started on
IEC (kettle) connectors!

Ahh, I sense someone who has tried to get a CEE form in while up a ladder &
facing away from the socket BTDT! Remarkable how the covers always seem to
be 'missing' after a while isn't it!
The other one I just love (probably from the same species of licensing
muppet), is the "requirement" for 2M separation between sockets on
different phases (It went out in the 70's, and was stupid even then).

IEC is OK (if difficult to wire), when inside static gear racks, but someone
needs killing for deciding it would be a good idea on certain 1200W
theatrical lanterns!

A really nicely thought out, but unfortunately unfused, connector is the
Neutric PowerCon. This is starting to be found on pro sound & lighting
equipment. 20A, small and it locks in place too!

The powercon are nice, and come in the same form factor up to 32A! very
useful, but I slightly disagree about unfused being bad. Dammit, I want to
know where the fuses are (And in every plug does not count as knowing)!

Regards, Dan.

Dan Mills wrote:
Ahh, I sense someone who has tried to get a CEE form in while up a ladder &
facing away from the socket BTDT! Remarkable how the covers always seem to
be 'missing' after a while isn't it!

And the bite your bloody fingers too!

The other one I just love (probably from the same species of licensing
muppet), is the "requirement" for 2M separation between sockets on
different phases (It went out in the 70's, and was stupid even then).

Grr, now don't start...

The powercon are nice, and come in the same form factor up to 32A! very
useful, but I slightly disagree about unfused being bad. Dammit, I want to
know where the fuses are (And in every plug does not count as knowing)!

Regards, Dan.

Yes, I agree, to a point. If they were to become more prevalent, we
would all need to re-wire our infrastructures to radial circuits, or
fusing local to the outlets.

Andrew

wrote:

2 faceplates instead of 4 is what will look better.
Also 4 or 6 appliances in the socket is tidier because the 4 or 6 way
plugin socket strip is eliminated.

Often a trailing strip will be the neatest of all the solutions, since
it can be fixed to or in the unit in question (i.e. TV cabinet, HiFi
stack etc)

- reduce the cost of mains plugs on some new appliances

Can't think why...


smaller, less material.

Material costs are only a small part of the equation. The other parts
(distribution etc) add up to the lions share. Hence even a 20% cost
reduction in the material cost does not translate to 20% less cost in
the final product. If these sockets are compatible with the original
ones they will still use the same amount of copper in the terminals, and
still need a compatible fuse. These are likely to be the more expensive
parts of the plug in both material and manufacturing costs. They also
represent a good proportion of the distribution weight. Net result is a
couple of "p" difference to the end user (assuming the retailer passes
it on).

also who cares, they are negligable cost as they are.


All manufacturers of new appliances. Plugs retail 50p each, wholesale
35p, ex works 25p each. Multiply that by just 3 plugs per person per

I can't belive a large volume far eastern OEM is paying anything like
that for a plug. 5p - 10p perhaps.

You have Tesco selling halogen desk lights at 3.99 retail. What
proportion of the cost do you suppose is the plug, and what is the
switch gear, casing, lamp, lamp fitting, transformer, telescopic rails,
product safety testing, import duty, warehousing cost, distribution
cost, and VAT etc.?

new 2/6 way socket, initially no cheaper, but prices will come down to
around £1.50 when produced in volume.

More copper involved, so unlikely to ever be cheaper. Also don't forget
three times as many switches to include.

How many times does this saving occur per house? Rough guess: x12.
Thats £27.60 per house.

Handy saving out of the three grand bill for a rewire then....

Most not caring is true but not a problem. It is the people that stand
to save millions per yaer that will get up off their ass about it. And
the consumer will benefit along the way.

It is hard to identify a class of person that will save millions though.
Large house builders perhaps, but then they pass on the costs to the
consumer in the end anyway so perhaps care less that you might expect.
They are also a conservative lot, an unlikely to implement a change like
this until it has public acceptance. Otherwise they risk potential
customers thinking, "not sure about those sockets - they look different
from what I am used to, they must be some new fangled inferior
continental idea"

As far as our present system working well, it does have one problem,
and this would solve it. The proliferation of socket strips and
adaptors is a needless consequence of the insufficient number of fitted
sockets and the large size of them.

Perhaps Tesla had the right idea ;-)

In article ,
Andrew Chesters wrote:
A really nicely thought out, but unfortunately unfused, connector is
the Neutric PowerCon. This is starting to be found on pro sound &
lighting equipment. 20A, small and it locks in place too!

Which probably outlaws it for domestic use?

Don't know. It'd be a damned shame if it did. :-(

Yup - IIRC it's the locking thing. I'd add that I use them on portable
audio gear which gets a real hammering and they're quite the most reliable
mains connector I know. Or possibly the most reliable connector full stop.

--
*Why is the third hand on the watch called a second hand?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

wrote in message
ps.com...
3. the plugs do not meet our safety standards in several respects,
so
getting approval would ilkely not be possible.

NO ! All IEC plugs automatically have approval. No signatory
government
can legislate against them or otherwise preclude their use. If you
wish to
use them you can.

They meet BS1363 or BS548?


EN standards can be used and are enforceable in all EU countries. Many of
these are of course IEC standards with a new number, such as the common IEC
plug.

Many BS standards are subsets of EN standards and are fine but those that
aren't won't stand up in law if there is an equivalent EN standard, which
for safety issues there is. Trying to impose spurious requirements to
preclude an international standard is prohibited except in issues of
national security.

Of course such components must be used as specified. Once cannot just drop
them in instead of our nasty 13A things.

http://www.iec.ch/zone/plugsocket/ps_history.htm
shows an overview of what is in fact a sordid history of protectionism by
the UK and a few other countries. Hopefully the commision will one day
force this through.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Yup - IIRC it's the locking thing. I'd add that I use them on portable
audio gear which gets a real hammering and they're quite the most reliable
mains connector I know. Or possibly the most reliable connector full stop.

I always liked the old style camlocks, you HAD to pay attention, and the
muppets tended to become really obvious!

Just be careful, it looks like a speaker plug (and having seen them forced
in completely ignoring the keyways), I am quite prepared to believe that
with enough ignorance a powercon would fit in the speaker output hole!

NEVER assume that something is foolproof!
Having seen a loudspeaker wired up to a BS658 15A Plug before now, if you
think something is so blatantly wrong that no one would do it, you are
probably wrong!

regards, Dan.

On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 01:38:47 +0000, Dan Mills wrote:

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Yup - IIRC it's the locking thing. I'd add that I use them on portable
audio gear which gets a real hammering and they're quite the most reliable
mains connector I know. Or possibly the most reliable connector full stop.

I always liked the old style camlocks, you HAD to pay attention, and the
muppets tended to become really obvious!

Just be careful, it looks like a speaker plug (and having seen them forced
in completely ignoring the keyways), I am quite prepared to believe that
with enough ignorance a powercon would fit in the speaker output hole!

NEVER assume that something is foolproof!
Having seen a loudspeaker wired up to a BS658 15A Plug before now, if you
think something is so blatantly wrong that no one would do it, you are
probably wrong!


I did this very thing once, in a manner of speaking, when I was about 8.
One of my Xmas presents was some kind of toy that had an earphone. It was
one of the standard 2K magnetic earphones of the day, and it plugged into
this toy, which never really worked right - the microphone that came with
the toy was a joke - but I did notice that the plug on the earphone would
almost exactly fit into the socket on the end of the power cord for Mom's
sewing machine. I wondered what would happen, so I plugged it in.

**** ****
***** BZZZZZZAAAAAAT!!!!! *****
**** ****

The loudest sound I'd ever heard. The whole family instantly appeared at
the door of Mom's sewing room, wondering what the hell the racket was.
(and if I was, yet again, trying to burn the house down! ;-P )

Interestingly, nothing blew up! (vastly different from some of my other
early experiments! ;-) )

Cheers!
Rich

I read in sci.electronics.design that Dan Mills
wrote (in
on.co.uk) about 'So, how many sockets in a living room?', on Mon, 21
Feb 2005:
Having seen a loudspeaker wired up to a BS658

BS 658: Specification for apparatus for the determination of
distillation range (including flasks and receivers)

Try BS 546.

15A Plug before now, if
you think something is so blatantly wrong that no one would do it, you
are probably wrong!

I've seen a conversion lead with a British 5 A 3-pin plug on one end and
a MUSA on the other. Twin screened cable, of course.

I have a British 13 A plug with a BNC mounted on the cover, but that's a
calibrator for LISNs used in EMC testing.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

In article ,
John Woodgate writes:
I read in sci.electronics.design that Dan Mills
wrote (in
on.co.uk) about 'So, how many sockets in a living room?', on Mon, 21
Feb 2005:
Having seen a loudspeaker wired up to a BS658

BS 658: Specification for apparatus for the determination of
distillation range (including flasks and receivers)

Try BS 546.

Italians use something like our 2A BS 546 mains socket for their
telephones -- I bet they ring loadly when you plug it in!

--
Andrew Gabriel

I read in sci.electronics.design that Andrew Gabriel
wrote (in cvc6kj$p1v$1@new-
usenet.uk.sun.com) about 'So, how many sockets in a living room?', on
Mon, 21 Feb 2005:

Italians use something like our 2A BS 546 mains socket for their
telephones -- I bet they ring loadly when you plug it in!

The pins are too big to go into the socket.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 23:25:03 -0000, "Mike" wrote:

There are convertors available

Or a shaver adapter is what I use for low powered stuff.

cheers,
Pete.