Hi,

Just fitted a towel radiator onto my Microbore CH system (thanks for all the
advice received). The only thing left to do is to attach the earth bonding
which was previously attached to the now replaced standard radiator. On the
old radiator there was a small clip and the earth bonding has (not sure on
name of fitting!) like a spade connector but fully closed. This was just
screwed onto the clip.

There is no clip on the towel radiator so I need some sort of fitting to
clamp around the 8mm pipe that I can then screw this connected onto. I've
have a look at some jubilee clips and the smallest I can get is around 10mm
and in any case I would need to remove the connector and just clamp the
splayed wire to the pipe with this method.

What I need is some sort of connector that will clamp the pipe, screw tight,
and in which I can put the screw through the connector and tighten the lot
together.

Hope that makes sense and any help gratefully appreciated.

CM.

On Fri, 30 Apr 2004 13:16:04 +0000 (UTC), "Charles Middleton"
wrote:

Hi,


Hope that makes sense and any help gratefully appreciated.

How about making a collar to increase the diameter? A ring of
conductive pipe, with a cut through it so you can slip it over the
microbore.

Charlie

CM.

In article ,
Charlie wrote:
How about making a collar to increase the diameter? A ring of
conductive pipe, with a cut through it so you can slip it over the
microbore.

I'd have thought if you need earth bonding on a system which has copper
pipes, the bonding should go on the rad - not the pipes. If the TRVs etc
have any form of gunge between them the pipes and the rad, this could
introduce electrical resistance.

--
*What do little birdies see when they get knocked unconscious? *

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

On Fri, 30 Apr 2004 13:16:04 +0000 (UTC), "Charles Middleton"
wrote:

Hi,

Just fitted a towel radiator onto my Microbore CH system (thanks for all the
advice received). The only thing left to do is to attach the earth bonding
which was previously attached to the now replaced standard radiator. On the
old radiator there was a small clip and the earth bonding has (not sure on
name of fitting!) like a spade connector but fully closed. This was just
screwed onto the clip.

There is no clip on the towel radiator so I need some sort of fitting to
clamp around the 8mm pipe that I can then screw this connected onto. I've
have a look at some jubilee clips and the smallest I can get is around 10mm
and in any case I would need to remove the connector and just clamp the
splayed wire to the pipe with this method.

What I need is some sort of connector that will clamp the pipe, screw tight,
and in which I can put the screw through the connector and tighten the lot
together.

Hope that makes sense and any help gratefully appreciated.

CM.



The ordinary earth clamps work fine for this.

e.g. Screwfix order no. 18129.

You have to have the "Safety Electrical Earth Do not Remove" label
anyway,.



..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Charlie" wrote in message
...

How about making a collar to increase the diameter? A ring of
conductive pipe, with a cut through it so you can slip it over the
microbore.

Sounds like a good idea!

CM.

Dave Plowman wrote:

I'd have thought if you need earth bonding on a system which has copper
pipes, the bonding should go on the rad - not the pipes. If the TRVs etc
have any form of gunge between them the pipes and the rad, this could
introduce electrical resistance.

Hmm, interesting thought. All of the bonded setups I've looked at (in my
capacity as a nosy visitor in other people's houses) have had the clamps
on the pipes near the radiator, not on the radiator itself. I've often
wondered about the electrical usefulness of this.

--
Grunff

On Fri, 30 Apr 2004 13:16:04 +0000 (UTC), in uk.d-i-y "Charles
Middleton" strung together this:

What I need is some sort of connector that will clamp the pipe, screw tight,
and in which I can put the screw through the connector and tighten the lot
together.

Erm, an aptly named earth clamp is what you want, a few pence from the
local electrical wholesaler or infinitely more from B&Q etc..
--

SJW
A.C.S. Ltd.

In message ,
Grunff wrote:

Dave Plowman wrote:

I'd have thought if you need earth bonding on a system which has copper
pipes, the bonding should go on the rad - not the pipes. If the TRVs etc
have any form of gunge between them the pipes and the rad, this could
introduce electrical resistance.

Hmm, interesting thought. All of the bonded setups I've looked at (in my
capacity as a nosy visitor in other people's houses) have had the clamps
on the pipes near the radiator, not on the radiator itself. I've often
wondered about the electrical usefulness of this.


Well, until the likes of Screwfix D18129, you would have had to drill
through a bit of radiator and fit a nut, bolt and a couple of shakeproof
washers (for better contact) in order to bond the rad. itself. Bonding
both pipes just south of the valves using easily available pipe
clamps probably seemed like a good second best.

Try D18129 though - it does the job just fine.

Hwyl!

M.

--
Martin Angove: http://www.tridwr.demon.co.uk/
Two free issues: http://www.livtech.co.uk/ Living With Technology
.... Beware of Geeks bearing GIFs.

"Martin Angove" wrote in message
I'd have thought if you need earth bonding on a system which has
copper
pipes, the bonding should go on the rad - not the pipes. If the TRVs
etc
have any form of gunge between them the pipes and the rad, this could
introduce electrical resistance.

Hmm, interesting thought. All of the bonded setups I've looked at (in my
capacity as a nosy visitor in other people's houses) have had the clamps
on the pipes near the radiator, not on the radiator itself. I've often
wondered about the electrical usefulness of this.


Well, until the likes of Screwfix D18129, you would have had to drill
through a bit of radiator and fit a nut, bolt and a couple of shakeproof
washers (for better contact) in order to bond the rad. itself. Bonding
both pipes just south of the valves using easily available pipe
clamps probably seemed like a good second best.

Try D18129 though - it does the job just fine.


Or simply don't bother. There has been a lot of discussion on this in the
IEE and general consensus is it isn't needed in dry rooms.

Hmm, interesting thought. All of the bonded setups I've looked at (in my
capacity as a nosy visitor in other people's houses) have had the clamps
on the pipes near the radiator, not on the radiator itself. I've often
wondered about the electrical usefulness of this.

However, strangely, such a result would actually be safer (particularly if
both pipes are reliably bonded). The worst case scenario here is that
(unless there is another source of earthing different from the pipe
connections) the earth potential will be the same as the supplementary
equipotential zone, but with increased resistance, perhaps reducing maximum
earth fault current to below a fatal level. The best case is when there is
total isolation between the pipes and the radiator, when supplementary
bonding isn't required.

Christian.

In message ,
"G&M" wrote:


"Martin Angove" wrote in message
I'd have thought if you need earth bonding on a system which has
copper
pipes, the bonding should go on the rad - not the pipes. If the TRVs
etc
have any form of gunge between them the pipes and the rad, this could
introduce electrical resistance.

Hmm, interesting thought. All of the bonded setups I've looked at (in my
capacity as a nosy visitor in other people's houses) have had the clamps
on the pipes near the radiator, not on the radiator itself. I've often
wondered about the electrical usefulness of this.


Well, until the likes of Screwfix D18129, you would have had to drill
through a bit of radiator and fit a nut, bolt and a couple of shakeproof
washers (for better contact) in order to bond the rad. itself. Bonding
both pipes just south of the valves using easily available pipe
clamps probably seemed like a good second best.

Try D18129 though - it does the job just fine.


Or simply don't bother. There has been a lot of discussion on this in the
IEE and general consensus is it isn't needed in dry rooms.



Ummm... depends what you mean by a dry room. Personally I'd not bother
to bond anything anywhere except in the bathroom: not even in the
kitchen or "cloakroom", but AIUI bonding in the bathroom (section
60-something, "locations containing a bath or shower") is strictly
required within the zones, and very few bathrooms have the kinds of
dimensions which mean that such items are outside the zones.

Hwyl!

M.

--
Martin Angove: http://www.tridwr.demon.co.uk/
Two free issues: http://www.livtech.co.uk/ Living With Technology
.... (C)ontrol (A)lt (B)ye

"Martin Angove" wrote in message
...
Or simply don't bother. There has been a lot of discussion on this in
the
IEE and general consensus is it isn't needed in dry rooms.


Ummm... depends what you mean by a dry room. Personally I'd not bother
to bond anything anywhere except in the bathroom: not even in the
kitchen or "cloakroom", but AIUI bonding in the bathroom (section
60-something, "locations containing a bath or shower") is strictly
required within the zones, and very few bathrooms have the kinds of
dimensions which mean that such items are outside the zones.

Agreed, bathrooms definitely need earth bonding. If you are using a towel
rail this is easiest as you can often do it on the mounts.

For kitchen it depends where the radiator is. If you can't touch it and the
sink I'd regard it as dry.

I'd probably bond in the cloakroom if I had a radiator there.

In message ,
"G&M" wrote:


"Martin Angove" wrote in message
...
Or simply don't bother. There has been a lot of discussion on this in
the
IEE and general consensus is it isn't needed in dry rooms.


Ummm... depends what you mean by a dry room. Personally I'd not bother
to bond anything anywhere except in the bathroom: not even in the
kitchen or "cloakroom", but AIUI bonding in the bathroom (section
60-something, "locations containing a bath or shower") is strictly
required within the zones, and very few bathrooms have the kinds of
dimensions which mean that such items are outside the zones.

Agreed, bathrooms definitely need earth bonding. If you are using a towel
rail this is easiest as you can often do it on the mounts.

For kitchen it depends where the radiator is. If you can't touch it and the
sink I'd regard it as dry.

I'd probably bond in the cloakroom if I had a radiator there.


Why though? The only reason to be worried would, I think, be if you are
concerned that there will be 50V (that's what bonding is supposed to
prevent) between one of the taps and the radiator for enough time to
cause you problems. If the rest of your system is up to scratch (main EP
bonding, earthing, circuit protection devices) then this is unlikely to
be the case I'd think.

Supplementary bonding is more important (and therefore mandatory) in
bathrooms, showers, swimming pools etc. because your body tends to have
a much lower resistance in a bathroom than it normally does elsewhere -
no shoes, wet skin and so on. This can lead to much higher currents
which are (to put it bluntly) more lethal in a shorter time.

Well, that's the way I look at it anyway.

Hwyl!

M.

--
Martin Angove: http://www.tridwr.demon.co.uk/
Two free issues: http://www.livtech.co.uk/ Living With Technology
.... Could you continue your petty bickering? I find it most interesting

"Martin Angove" wrote in message
...
In message ,
"G&M" wrote:


"Martin Angove" wrote in message
...
Or simply don't bother. There has been a lot of discussion on this
in
the
IEE and general consensus is it isn't needed in dry rooms.


Ummm... depends what you mean by a dry room. Personally I'd not bother
to bond anything anywhere except in the bathroom: not even in the
kitchen or "cloakroom", but AIUI bonding in the bathroom (section
60-something, "locations containing a bath or shower") is strictly
required within the zones, and very few bathrooms have the kinds of
dimensions which mean that such items are outside the zones.

Agreed, bathrooms definitely need earth bonding. If you are using a
towel
rail this is easiest as you can often do it on the mounts.

For kitchen it depends where the radiator is. If you can't touch it and
the
sink I'd regard it as dry.

I'd probably bond in the cloakroom if I had a radiator there.


Why though? The only reason to be worried would, I think, be if you are
concerned that there will be 50V (that's what bonding is supposed to
prevent) between one of the taps and the radiator for enough time to
cause you problems. If the rest of your system is up to scratch (main EP
bonding, earthing, circuit protection devices) then this is unlikely to
be the case I'd think.

Our earth (actually the neutral in from an aerial line) is about 70 volts
away from the ground outside. Plastic piping and drainage in theory stops
the taps and radiators being at outside ground but prefer to enforce the
issue.

Would like to connect my earth to ground outside but there are four farms
downstream of me and my earthing spike would have to be capable of handling
their fault conditions which in our well drained soil may not be possible.

G&M wrote:

Why though? The only reason to be worried would, I think, be if you are
concerned that there will be 50V (that's what bonding is supposed to
prevent) between one of the taps and the radiator for enough time to
cause you problems. If the rest of your system is up to scratch (main EP
bonding, earthing, circuit protection devices) then this is unlikely to
be the case I'd think.

Our earth (actually the neutral in from an aerial line) is about 70 volts
away from the ground outside. Plastic piping and drainage in theory stops
the taps and radiators being at outside ground but prefer to enforce the
issue.

Would like to connect my earth to ground outside but there are four farms
downstream of me and my earthing spike would have to be capable of handling
their fault conditions which in our well drained soil may not be possible.

Why not go for a TT system then?

Or maybe you can report the 70 volt difference as a fault to the
electricity supplier.

--
Chris Green

wrote in message ...
G&M wrote:
Our earth (actually the neutral in from an aerial line) is about 70
volts
away from the ground outside. Plastic piping and drainage in theory
stops
the taps and radiators being at outside ground but prefer to enforce the
issue.

Would like to connect my earth to ground outside but there are four
farms
downstream of me and my earthing spike would have to be capable of
handling
their fault conditions which in our well drained soil may not be
possible.

Why not go for a TT system then?

TT system


Or maybe you can report the 70 volt difference as a fault to the
electricity supplier.

Not spec'ed. Where we are if it's on that's an achievement. We are so
close to 253volts it's untrue so that the farm at the end has enough voltage
to at least turn his lights on.

G&M wrote:

wrote in message ...
G&M wrote:
Our earth (actually the neutral in from an aerial line) is about 70
volts
away from the ground outside. Plastic piping and drainage in theory
stops
the taps and radiators being at outside ground but prefer to enforce the
issue.

Would like to connect my earth to ground outside but there are four
farms
downstream of me and my earthing spike would have to be capable of
handling
their fault conditions which in our well drained soil may not be
possible.

Why not go for a TT system then?

TT system

Do you mean you already have a TT system? In that case you have a
fault as you should be using your own earth, not the supply one.

--
Chris Green