In preparing for major decoration and re-carpeting, I've lugged an
enormous amount of stuff either into the garage or the loft. I'm now
considering whether to make the reverse job a bit easier by fitting a
loft ladder. I used to have one at my previous house. This one though
is a simple loose hatch (about 72 x 48 cm), which is pushed up and
stowed when entry is required, via standard aluminium step-ladders.

Assuming I *can* fit one into the rather cramped space near the hatch,
is it a matter of removing the 'supporting strips' underneath the
present hatch cover, and fitting hinges plus a spring catch to it
please?

--
Terry, West Sussex, UK

On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 18:49:57 +0100, Terry Pinnell
wrote:

In preparing for major decoration and re-carpeting, I've lugged an
enormous amount of stuff either into the garage or the loft. I'm now
considering whether to make the reverse job a bit easier by fitting a
loft ladder. I used to have one at my previous house. This one though
is a simple loose hatch (about 72 x 48 cm), which is pushed up and
stowed when entry is required, via standard aluminium step-ladders.

Assuming I *can* fit one into the rather cramped space near the hatch,
is it a matter of removing the 'supporting strips' underneath the
present hatch cover, and fitting hinges plus a spring catch to it
please?

I think you have got the idea ok. The problem you may have overlooked
is the ladder. The usual one is a two part aluminium one that is
hinged on one of the hatch boards. The ladder is reduced in length by
a half and then pushed up into the roof and then lays flat on the
ceiling in the roof. So if you can imagine a vertical of that length
sticking up from the hatch into the roof, it must then be able to
swing in an arc down onto the roof.

Mine mean I had to enlarge and move the hatch to get the ladder
installed.

So, find a ladder, go home and work out if you can install it, go back
and buy it, pray hard, install it.

In article , "Terry
Pinnell" says...
In preparing for major decoration and re-carpeting, I've lugged an
enormous amount of stuff either into the garage or the loft. I'm now
considering whether to make the reverse job a bit easier by fitting a
loft ladder. I used to have one at my previous house. This one though
is a simple loose hatch (about 72 x 48 cm), which is pushed up and
stowed when entry is required, via standard aluminium step-ladders.

Assuming I *can* fit one into the rather cramped space near the hatch,
is it a matter of removing the 'supporting strips' underneath the
present hatch cover, and fitting hinges plus a spring catch to it
please?


Yes - the loft ladder that I bought came complete with suitable hardware
for the hatch.

"Terry Pinnell" wrote in message
...
In preparing for major decoration and re-carpeting, I've lugged an
enormous amount of stuff either into the garage or the loft. I'm now
considering whether to make the reverse job a bit easier by fitting a
loft ladder. I used to have one at my previous house. This one though
is a simple loose hatch (about 72 x 48 cm), which is pushed up and
stowed when entry is required, via standard aluminium step-ladders.

Assuming I *can* fit one into the rather cramped space near the hatch,
is it a matter of removing the 'supporting strips' underneath the
present hatch cover, and fitting hinges plus a spring catch to it
please?

--
Terry, West Sussex, UK


I got mine from Wickes a few years ago. It extends in 3 sections so takes up
less space in the loft. I seem to remember it came with all the bits you
need including a handrail and a rotating latch for the hatch cover plus a
long rod to turn it with.

Nodge

have a look at http://www.ladderstore.com/index_loft.php you will find a
link to a Printable Dimensions Sheet which will help.

--
__________________________________________________ _____
Tony Sedgwick
07973 360815
"Terry Pinnell" wrote in message
...
In preparing for major decoration and re-carpeting, I've lugged an
enormous amount of stuff either into the garage or the loft. I'm now
considering whether to make the reverse job a bit easier by fitting a
loft ladder. I used to have one at my previous house. This one though
is a simple loose hatch (about 72 x 48 cm), which is pushed up and
stowed when entry is required, via standard aluminium step-ladders.

Assuming I *can* fit one into the rather cramped space near the hatch,
is it a matter of removing the 'supporting strips' underneath the
present hatch cover, and fitting hinges plus a spring catch to it
please?

--
Terry, West Sussex, UK

"Tony" wrote:

have a look at http://www.ladderstore.com/index_loft.php you will find a
link to a Printable Dimensions Sheet which will help.

Thanks for all those helpful replies. I'll also check if my local
Homebase or Focus Do-It-All have any of the compact types. The Argos
catalogues's single offering requires around a metre of free space,
which rules that out.

I found that Ladderstore site last night. Had me drooling for the
electrically operated version. Only £1,249.00! In fact the entire
range is attractive, but pretty expensive.

--
Terry, West Sussex, UK

In article ,
Terry Pinnell wrote:

I'll also check if my local
Homebase or Focus Do-It-All have any of the compact types. The Argos
catalogues's single offering requires around a metre of free space,
which rules that out.

Our local B&Q have one on "special" at the minute, 54.99 -- 3-section,
iirc.

John

John wrote:

In article ,
Terry Pinnell wrote:

I'll also check if my local
Homebase or Focus Do-It-All have any of the compact types. The Argos
catalogues's single offering requires around a metre of free space,
which rules that out.

Our local B&Q have one on "special" at the minute, 54.99 -- 3-section,
iirc.

John

Thanks. That's about the same as the HomeBase 3-section type I saw
this morning. Unfortunately, snags in my case are that not only is the
hatch small (72 x 48 cm), but the ladder will have to point along that
*shorter* dimension. IOW, that 48/50cm is the 'length', using the
terminology of the various models I've seen. And apart from the
limitation that places on my choices, it means that access becomes
even more restricted than it is at present, when the ladder occupies
some of that smallish rectangle. I *could* turn this into a major
project, enlarging the hole and trying my hand at some carpentry. But
that wasn't really what I originally had in mind!

--
Terry, West Sussex, UK

Terry Pinnell wrote in message . ..
"Tony" wrote:

have a look at http://www.ladderstore.com/index_loft.php you will find a
link to a Printable Dimensions Sheet which will help.

Thanks for all those helpful replies. I'll also check if my local
Homebase or Focus Do-It-All have any of the compact types. The Argos
catalogues's single offering requires around a metre of free space,
which rules that out.

I found that Ladderstore site last night. Had me drooling for the
electrically operated version. Only £1,249.00! In fact the entire
range is attractive, but pretty expensive.


how about this?

make a ladder from 1.5x2.5 planed and 3" screws, cost £8. Now cut it
into say 3 pieces, fitting long meaty hinges like so:
_
| |
| |
|_||
| || -- hinge
| |
|_|| -- hinge
| ||
| |
|_|


Now put a board in the loft so its slides in onto a flat smooth
surfece.
£10 plus 1 hrs work.


NT

On 24 Oct 2004 03:44:52 -0700, N. Thornton wrote:

how about this?

make a ladder from 1.5x2.5 planed and 3" screws, cost =A38. Now cut it=

into say 3 pieces, fitting long meaty hinges like so:
_
| |
| |
|_||
| || -- hinge
| |
|_|| -- hinge
| ||
| |
|_|

Think I'd hinge both sides and rebate the rungs/steps into the sides a
bit. You don't want a rung to fail and you end up sliding all the way
down breaking each succesive rung as you heavyly land on it.

If you look at a timber ladder you find every third or so rung has a
1/8" dia wire underneath it this is to stop the run away effect if a
rung breaks.

It is an interesting idea though. The ceiling below our loft hatch is
the best part of 10' this is out of reach for most commercial loft
ladders.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message ill.com...
On 24 Oct 2004 03:44:52 -0700, N. Thornton wrote:

how about this?

make a ladder from 1.5x2.5 planed and 3" screws, cost 8. Now cut it

into say 3 pieces, fitting long meaty hinges like so:

| |
| |
||
| || -- hinge
| |
|| -- hinge
| ||
| |
| |

Think I'd hinge both sides

I cant work out what you mean there. I did however notice the diagram
came out scrambled - lets try again

_
| | -- wood side of ladder
| |
|_||
| || -- hinge
| |
|_|| -- hinge
| ||
| |
|_|

and rebate the rungs/steps into the sides a
bit. You don't want a rung to fail and you end up sliding all the way
down breaking each succesive rung as you heavyly land on it.

Well, here's what I was thinking. If you use 2x 3" screws on each side
of each rung youve got protection against screw failure. The rungs on
this design are of 2.5 x 1.5 wood, which is way thicker than
traditional wood ladders. It is important to reject any wood with a
crack in it. I thought those 2 features would be enough to cover it,
but I gues it would take some load tests to check if it does, and if
not, add either metalwork or wood reinforcement triangles under rungs.
What do you think?


If you look at a timber ladder you find every third or so rung has a
1/8" dia wire underneath it this is to stop the run away effect if a
rung breaks.

Right. Commercial ladders are made light though, whereas this design
here has 2 to 3 x as much wood in each rung for simplicity and safety
margin.

It is an interesting idea though. The ceiling below our loft hatch is
the best part of 10' this is out of reach for most commercial loft
ladders.

The one bit I would want to load test before being confident is the
hinge fixings. Due to lever effects there would be very high forces on
hinges and their fixings, and both would have to be very solid. The
unhinged version of this has worked very well for me, but I've not
used a hinged version. The only downsides being that wood ladders are
heavier than ali and not so abuse proof. And must be kept indoors to
avoid rot.

Good luck if you try it

NT

On 25 Oct 2004 03:49:20 -0700, N. Thornton wrote:

Think I'd hinge both sides

I cant work out what you mean there. I did however notice the
diagram came out scrambled - lets try again

Ah you're looking at the side of the ladder I was looking at the
face...

Well, here's what I was thinking. If you use 2x 3" screws on each
side of each rung youve got protection against screw failure.

I was thinking more of timber failure, screws in end grain don't hold
very well and can split out through the face under shear.

but I gues it would take some load tests to check if it does, and if
not, add either metalwork or wood reinforcement triangles under
rungs. What do you think?

Thats why I'd house the ends of the rungs into the sides or screw bits
of 1" sq under each one and to the rung.

The one bit I would want to load test before being confident is the
hinge fixings. Due to lever effects there would be very high forces
on hinges and their fixings, and both would have to be very solid.

That didn't worry me but then I was using a different hinge type to
you... I think you are using a butt type with long flaps, I'm using a
flat hinge, hum donno what you call 'em but two long flat bits of
metal that run down each side if the ladder joined where they overlap
to pivot.

The only downsides being that wood ladders are heavier than ali and
not so abuse proof. And must be kept indoors to avoid rot.

Well a loft ladder will be inside unless it gets *very* windy. The
weight would be a concern, so I'd maybe drop to 3 x 1 for the sides
and 2.5 x .75 for the rungs.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message ill.com...
On 25 Oct 2004 03:49:20 -0700, N. Thornton wrote:

Think I'd hinge both sides

I cant work out what you mean there. I did however notice the
diagram came out scrambled - lets try again

Ah you're looking at the side of the ladder I was looking at the
face...

Well, here's what I was thinking. If you use 2x 3" screws on each
side of each rung youve got protection against screw failure.

I was thinking more of timber failure, screws in end grain don't hold
very well and can split out through the face under shear.

afaik there would be no scrwes gripping end grain on this.


but I gues it would take some load tests to check if it does, and if
not, add either metalwork or wood reinforcement triangles under
rungs. What do you think?

Thats why I'd house the ends of the rungs into the sides or screw bits
of 1" sq under each one and to the rung.

I'm not sure I'd put much faith in a 1" sq bit of wood with a holes in
it. But in principle this seems the best option if the ladder fails
(over)load tests. Mine passed though.


The one bit I would want to load test before being confident is the
hinge fixings. Due to lever effects there would be very high forces
on hinges and their fixings, and both would have to be very solid.

That didn't worry me but then I was using a different hinge type to
you... I think you are using a butt type with long flaps, I'm using a
flat hinge, hum donno what you call 'em but two long flat bits of
metal that run down each side if the ladder joined where they overlap
to pivot.

The only downsides being that wood ladders are heavier than ali and
not so abuse proof. And must be kept indoors to avoid rot.

Well a loft ladder will be inside unless it gets *very* windy. The
weight would be a concern, so I'd maybe drop to 3 x 1 for the sides
and 2.5 x .75 for the rungs.

actually the weight was a non issue with mione, its not heavy at all,
just not as featherlight as an ali one.

I dont think Id dare use 3/4" ungraded softwood meself, but if youre
adding your rung supports that probably would work ok. Long as its
tested.


NT

On 26 Oct 2004 03:02:44 -0700, N. Thornton wrote:

afaik there would be no scrwes gripping end grain on this.

How are the rungs attached to the sides? I thought, presumably
wrongly, that the screws went through the sides into the ends of the
rungs...

I dont think Id dare use 3/4" ungraded softwood meself,

Who said anything about ungraded timber? I just chose smaller section.
I'd probably go to a timber merchant rather than a shed and explain
the use.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message ill.com...
On 26 Oct 2004 03:02:44 -0700, N. Thornton wrote:

afaik there would be no scrwes gripping end grain on this.

How are the rungs attached to the sides? I thought, presumably
wrongly, that the screws went through the sides into the ends of the
rungs...

ahh. If you do that its going to be quite weak I think. The load on
the screws would try to split the wood.

Here's what I did: the rungs go full width, and sit on the front face
of the uprights, like so:

| | | |
|_|_____|_|
|_________|
| | | |
| | | |


The screws go in from the front to the back, and there are 2 at each
join rather than 1 for reliability.


NT