"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
IMM wrote:

you could look at either a combi or a multipoint.

5) The multipoint would be in addition to
your current boiler, and would
let you dispose of the hot water cylinder,
and probably the cold cistern
in the loft.


Misinformation: Multipoint have poor flowrates compared to combi's. A
combi can be had for the price of a multipoint with superior
performance.

Did I mention flow rate? Did I not indicate thet they are a depricated
solution? Is there anything wrong about the statement above? No Thought
not!

A lousy solution. Sensible people would not suggest such tripe.

These seem far less popular nowadays
since most people looking for Direct Hot
Water (DHW)

There is nothing worse than a know it all amateur.

As the finest example we have of such, you should indeed know.

My God! he actually thinks he knows something about this field. Sad, very
sad.

snip a large amount of total misinformation

If you believe the advice to be wrong, then highlight the areas you
believe to be wrong and explain why.

It was all wrong.

Knowing a bit more about your household and usage patterns might also
help tailor the advice a little. How many people, bathing how often,
showers how often, how many bathrooms in action at one time etc.

This is sensible, but I wouldn't allow the likes if you giving advise on
this info. What the hell would he end up with!

snip more tripe

John Orrett wrote:

At present we need both the immersion and the boiler to give us a
decent bathful of hot water.


OK. Is that because the boiler on its own heats the water too
slowly or not to a high enough temperature or some other reason?


Basically because the immersion tank itself does not give enough hot water
due to its volume. The boiler is the 'top up'

OK Reading between the lines he

I am getting the impression that your boiler must already be connected
to your hot water cylinder.

(If your cylinder was heated only by the immersion as it first sounded,
then the boiler and central heating settings would have no effect at all
on the amount of hot water available).

That complicates matters somewhat! Your plumber will be able to discuss
options for improving the performance of your current setup if its not
up to its current job.

Just the one bathroom. If we need a top up of water then as said previously,
I turn the central heating down for an hour so the boiler has enough hot
water to finish off the bath.

Apologies if I am barking up the wrong tree, but I think you might have
a slight misunderstanding about how your current boiler operates. The
boiler itself will not directly heat the water that fills your bath.
Instead it has a loop of pipework that leaves the boiler and the returns
to it. There will be a pump somewhere that just circulates this same
water round and round, each time it goes through the boiler it warms it
up a bit. The radiators are connected between these feed and return
pipes, each time the water goes through these they cool it down again
before it goes back to the boiler.

Your hot water cylinder can also be connected in a variety of different
ways. Most cylinders that are heated from a boiler will have a coil of
pipe inside them, through which the water heated by the boiler can be
pumped. This enables the heat from the boilers water (which will be
contaminated and stagnant) to pass to the water you get in your bath
without actually getting mixed into it. If you look at this type of
cylinder you would expect to see four piped connections to it. One will
the cold water in from you tank in the loft (typically fed into the
bottom of the cylinder), one will be the hot water out (top), and the
other two will be the feed and return for the hot water from the boiler
(typically middle and bottom).

It could be you have a very simple setup at the moment with either the
hot water cylinder relying on unpumped convection circulation of water
from the boiler, or it has actually been installed "just like a radiator".

In the first case you will get slower and less efficent heating of the
cylinder, in the latter you will have the cylinder and the radiators
contesting for the available heat from the boiler.

You may well be able to get better performance with the setup you have
by having your plumber improve the way your boiler heats your current
cylinder. Also raising the temperature of the water stored in the
cylinder will allow you to mix more cold with it when running a bath,
giving you more "bath temperature" water.


--
Cheers,

John.

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IMM wrote:

It was all wrong.

Same old IMM, run out of argument again...

About time you called me you current word of the month... Are you still
on "mentalist", of have you looked up a new one?

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
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| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 10:19:12 +0000, John Orrett wrote:



Sorry Christian; I don't see where you are coming from. The point of the
question was the fact that the Bathroom retailer told us we couldn't do what
we wanted, i.e. taps in wall and not taps on bath due not not having a combi
boiler. The above is a statement of fact and not a question.

It is stated as a fact, but one which mostly I do not agree with.
There are a huge range of taps available some of which come out of walls
and some of which will work on low pressure supplies.

I will say that if you want water that comes (aerated) through an aeration
nozzle you will need a pressure of 1 bar + which can be acheived with a
booster pump.


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 12:17:32 +0100, Bob wrote:


"John Orrett" wrote in message
k...
IMM wrote:
"Bob" wrote in message
...

"John Orrett" wrote in message
k...
Christian McArdle wrote:
Hi all; my wife has advised me that we are getting a new bathroom
suite! she would like one that has the taps in the wall rather
than on the bath itself. The shop told her that we cannot do this
at present as we only have a Gloworm Ultimate 50 boiler and an
immersion heater, and not a combi.

big snip
The salesman may be half right. The taps may be high pressure and
his only notion of high pressure hot water is a combi.


But doesn't that just mean the taps can cope with high pressure, rather than
require it?

No. Specifically in this matter some taps are designed for high pressure
supplies and fitting them to a low pressure supply will give an
inadequate flow rate even when they are turned fully on.
You can get away with this on a kitchen sink where the cold is OK and the
hot is poor since the amount of hot water required is not great.

--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

Hi all; finally got the plumber round last night. He reckons that the
existing boiler is fine, leave the immersion where it is, and we are getting
a 'shower bath' with taps on the bath itself .
Fingers crossed it will be a straightforward job!
Many thanks to all of you who have taken the time to respond.
Best wishes,
John

On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 09:34:01 GMT, "John Orrett"
wrote:

Hi all; finally got the plumber round last night. He reckons that the
existing boiler is fine, leave the immersion where it is, and we are getting
a 'shower bath' with taps on the bath itself .
Fingers crossed it will be a straightforward job!
Many thanks to all of you who have taken the time to respond.
Best wishes,
John



Not a bad idea. You can always upgrade the HW arrangements if you
need to do so.....


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

In article ,
John Orrett wrote:
The point of the question was the fact that the Bathroom retailer told
us we couldn't do what we wanted, i.e. taps in wall and not taps on bath
due not not having a combi boiler. The above is a statement of fact and
not a question.

It may be, but he's misinformed. What he probably means is that the taps
are designed for high pressure water. And therefore - but not exclusively
- not suitable for a storage system fed from a header tank which *might
not* supply enough pressure.

But how the water is heated is irrelevant.

There are also ways of increasing the pressure from a header tank system.
These will almost certainly be much cheaper than fitting a combi.

--
*Upon the advice of my attorney, my shirt bears no message at this time

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Bob wrote:
Personally, I'd probably keep the traditional system (you'll then still have
an immersion for emergency backup for when (not if) the boiler fails). You
just need a bigger hot water tank.


Bloody hell! Commonsense at last. You are obviously a heretic living
dangerously round here! I agree, and it's worth keeping a loft tank for
when the water company fails to deliver the service their propaganda
promises.

Regards
Capitol