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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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Self-lighting oven
I've got a New World Royale 600 gas cooker with a self-lighting oven - you
turn the gas on and the sparker clicks away until the oven lights. First, how's it do that then? Second, it only works when it feels like it - about 7 times in 10. Any idea why? Ta Si |
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I've got a New World Royale 600 gas cooker with a self-lighting oven - you
turn the gas on and the sparker clicks away until the oven lights. First, how's it do that then? Hardly rocket science. Second, it only works when it feels like it - about 7 times in 10. Any idea why? Flame sensor, igniter, knob position sensor or any cables or PCBs linking them, I'd think. Christian. |
#3
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Christian McArdle wrote:
I've got a New World Royale 600 gas cooker with a self-lighting oven - you turn the gas on and the sparker clicks away until the oven lights. First, how's it do that then? Hardly rocket science. Probably not, but then I don't think tiling is rocket science, or earth bonding, or a lot of the questions asked here. Second, it only works when it feels like it - about 7 times in 10. Any idea why? Flame sensor, igniter, knob position sensor or any cables or PCBs linking them, I'd think. Thanks for that. Si |
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"Mungo "two sheds" Toadfoot" wrote in message ... Christian McArdle wrote: I've got a New World Royale 600 gas cooker with a self-lighting oven - you turn the gas on and the sparker clicks away until the oven lights. First, how's it do that then? Hardly rocket science. Probably not, but then I don't think tiling is rocket science, or earth bonding, or a lot of the questions asked here. You wouldn't want to bond a rocket to earth - that would defeat the object surely. Second, it only works when it feels like it - about 7 times in 10. Any idea why? Flame sensor, igniter, knob position sensor or any cables or PCBs linking them, I'd think. Thanks for that. Si |
#5
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Ric wrote:
"Mungo "two sheds" Toadfoot" wrote in message ... Christian McArdle wrote: I've got a New World Royale 600 gas cooker with a self-lighting oven - you turn the gas on and the sparker clicks away until the oven lights. First, how's it do that then? Hardly rocket science. Probably not, but then I don't think tiling is rocket science, or earth bonding, or a lot of the questions asked here. You wouldn't want to bond a rocket to earth - that would defeat the object surely. Hehehe! Might as well though, for the good they do. Ah, but where would we be without pens wot write upside-down? Si |
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Ric wrote:
Pens are obsolete - you could use a laptop instead. Do they work upside-down? Si |
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"Mungo "two sheds" Toadfoot" wrote in message ... Ric wrote: "Mungo "two sheds" Toadfoot" wrote in message ... Christian McArdle wrote: I've got a New World Royale 600 gas cooker with a self-lighting oven - you turn the gas on and the sparker clicks away until the oven lights. First, how's it do that then? Hardly rocket science. Probably not, but then I don't think tiling is rocket science, or earth bonding, or a lot of the questions asked here. You wouldn't want to bond a rocket to earth - that would defeat the object surely. Hehehe! Might as well though, for the good they do. Ah, but where would we be without pens wot write upside-down? Pens are obsolete - you could use a laptop instead. |
#8
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Ric wrote:
"Mungo "two sheds" Toadfoot" wrote in message ... Christian McArdle wrote: I've got a New World Royale 600 gas cooker with a self-lighting oven - you turn the gas on and the sparker clicks away until the oven lights. First, how's it do that then? Hardly rocket science. Probably not, but then I don't think tiling is rocket science, or earth bonding, or a lot of the questions asked here. You wouldn't want to bond a rocket to earth - that would defeat the object surely. Depends what the object is. If you'r testing it to see if it works properly, it can be a lot more convenient if it's tied down, so you can easily measure stuff, and you don't have to go and haul it out of the ocean afterwards. |
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"Christian McArdle" wrote
| I've got a New World Royale 600 gas cooker with a self-lighting | oven - you turn the gas on and the sparker clicks away until | the oven lights. | First, how's it do that then? | Hardly rocket science. Presumably there must be a similar mechanism on rockets to ignite them? I can't see NASA sending out for some two-furra-pound gas lighters every time they want to do a launch. Owain |
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Hardly rocket science.
Probably not, but then I don't think tiling is rocket science, or earth bonding, or a lot of the questions asked here. Actually, thinking about it, I think it might be rocket science. If the thing didn't light when you started spewing fuel out of the end, it wouldn't be good, would it? Christian. |
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Mungo "two sheds" Toadfoot wrote:
Hehehe! Might as well though, for the good they do. Ah, but where would we be without pens wot write upside-down? Back with pencils ;-) Chris -- Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh. |
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On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 17:28:39 +0100, Mungo "two sheds" Toadfoot wrote:
Ric wrote: Pens are obsolete - you could use a laptop instead. Do they work upside-down? Si I would image most bits would work fine,may have a bit of a problem with the hard disk though Martin Warby |
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Hehehe! Might as well though, for the good they do. Ah, but where would
we be without pens wot write upside-down? Back with pencils ;-) Yes. Did you see that programme where they got some high up bods in the Soviet and US space programmes together? The American was boasting about how they'd spent millions getting an upside down anti-gravity pen working. When asking the Soviets how they solved that problem, they replied that they used pencils! Christian. |
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Owain wrote:
"Christian McArdle" wrote I've got a New World Royale 600 gas cooker with a self-lighting oven - you turn the gas on and the sparker clicks away until the oven lights. First, how's it do that then? Hardly rocket science. Presumably there must be a similar mechanism on rockets to ignite them? I can't see NASA sending out for some two-furra-pound gas lighters every time they want to do a launch. Blimey - it *is* rocket science! Si |
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Owain wrote:
"Christian McArdle" wrote | I've got a New World Royale 600 gas cooker with a self-lighting | oven - you turn the gas on and the sparker clicks away until | the oven lights. | First, how's it do that then? | Hardly rocket science. Presumably there must be a similar mechanism on rockets to ignite them? I can't see NASA sending out for some two-furra-pound gas lighters every time they want to do a launch. It varies. For example, the solid rockets on the shuttle are ignited by a small rocket motor mounted in the top. This is lit by a small pyrotechnic device. When it lights, it fills the chamber of the rocket with hot pressurised gas, and rapidly lights off the main engine. The main engines do almost use gas-lighters. They are basically really big spark plugs, hooked up to a high power ignition system. |
#16
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Ian Stirling wrote:
The main engines do almost use gas-lighters. They are basically really big spark plugs, hooked up to a high power ignition system. Well FMOB! Every day's a school day. Si |
#17
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"Mungo "two sheds" Toadfoot" wrote in message ... I've got a New World Royale 600 gas cooker with a self-lighting oven - you turn the gas on and the sparker clicks away until the oven lights. First, how's it do that then? It is by flame rectifcation when the oven ignites the ignition generator senses the flame in the spark gap and turns off Second, it only works when it feels like it - about 7 times in 10. Any idea why? Ta Si What happens when it does not work ? Do you mean you mean it doesnt ignite or does not stop sparking when oven is lit ? Peter |
#18
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Peter wrote:
"Mungo "two sheds" Toadfoot" wrote in message ... I've got a New World Royale 600 gas cooker with a self-lighting oven - you turn the gas on and the sparker clicks away until the oven lights. First, how's it do that then? It is by flame rectifcation when the oven ignites the ignition generator senses the flame in the spark gap and turns off Ah, well that's half of it. That could explain why it works better when I've given it a good scrubbing. Second, it only works when it feels like it - about 7 times in 10. Any idea why? What happens when it does not work ? Do you mean you mean it doesnt ignite or does not stop sparking when oven is lit ? It just doesn't spark at all and we have to push the ignition button. Not a problem, of course, but things that are supposed to work annoy me when they don't. Might there be a switch on the oven gas tap? I'll go and give it a prod (technical term)... Aha! I've never played before... If I turn the knob just a few degrees, before the gas starts coming out even, it starts sparking. Switch? Si |
#19
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On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 17:15:01 +0100, Mungo "two sheds" Toadfoot wrote:
Christian McArdle wrote: I've got a New World Royale 600 gas cooker with a self-lighting oven - you turn the gas on and the sparker clicks away until the oven lights. First, how's it do that then? Hardly rocket science. Probably not, but then I don't think tiling is rocket science, or earth bonding, or a lot of the questions asked here. OK. I'm not familiar with this model but other models which work like this do the following: Attached to the spindle of the gas knob is a microswitch unit which powers the sparker. The electrodes of the sparker once the gas is lit are immersed in the flame this means the that although the sparker is running the mini bolt of lightning is shorted out by the flame and can't be heard. [2] All the rest of the operation (flame failure detection and regulo stuff) is the same as all other ovens. [2] I beleive the Pott. Netaheat boilers work like this also. Second, it only works when it feels like it - about 7 times in 10. Any idea why? Duff microswitch unit on the gas knob. Poor HT cabling, Poor/eroded electrodes... Most other things are more likely hard faults. -- Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter. The FAQ for uk.diy is at www.diyfaq.org.uk Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html |
#20
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"Martin Warby" wrote in message news On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 17:28:39 +0100, Mungo "two sheds" Toadfoot wrote: Ric wrote: Pens are obsolete - you could use a laptop instead. Do they work upside-down? Si I would image most bits would work fine,may have a bit of a problem with the hard disk though Would probably be okay upside down - although the bearings might go if you used it on its side. Martin Warby |
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"Christian McArdle" wrote in message . net... Hehehe! Might as well though, for the good they do. Ah, but where would we be without pens wot write upside-down? Back with pencils ;-) Yes. Did you see that programme where they got some high up bods in the Soviet and US space programmes together? The American was boasting about how they'd spent millions getting an upside down anti-gravity pen working. When asking the Soviets how they solved that problem, they replied that they used pencils! But have you ever tried sharpening a pencil in zero gravity? |
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But have you ever tried sharpening a pencil in zero gravity?
I presumed that self propelling types were specified, but maybe I'm wrong. Christian. |
#23
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Ed Sirett wrote:
Duff microswitch unit on the gas knob. Thanks Ed, I think it's this. If I give it a gentle (heh) bash when it's not working, it does. Si |
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On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 17:52:20 +0100, "Christian McArdle"
wrote: Yes. Did you see that programme where they got some high up bods in the Soviet and US space programmes together? The American was boasting about how they'd spent millions getting an upside down anti-gravity pen working. When asking the Soviets how they solved that problem, they replied that they used pencils! Urban legend, though in weightless conditions bits of pencil lead won't be any good to your electronics. cheers, Pete. |
#25
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Pete C wrote:
On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 17:52:20 +0100, "Christian McArdle" wrote: Yes. Did you see that programme where they got some high up bods in the Soviet and US space programmes together? The American was boasting about how they'd spent millions getting an upside down anti-gravity pen working. When asking the Soviets how they solved that problem, they replied that they used pencils! Urban legend, though in weightless conditions bits of pencil lead won't be any good to your electronics. Coloured pencils are free of even this small hazard. |
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"Ian Stirling" wrote in message ... Pete C wrote: On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 17:52:20 +0100, "Christian McArdle" wrote: Yes. Did you see that programme where they got some high up bods in the Soviet and US space programmes together? The American was boasting about how they'd spent millions getting an upside down anti-gravity pen working. When asking the Soviets how they solved that problem, they replied that they used pencils! Urban legend, though in weightless conditions bits of pencil lead won't be any good to your electronics. Coloured pencils are free of even this small hazard. What about crayons? |
#27
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In message , "Mungo \"two sheds\"
Toadfoot" writes Christian McArdle wrote: I've got a New World Royale 600 gas cooker with a self-lighting oven - you turn the gas on and the sparker clicks away until the oven lights. First, how's it do that then? Hardly rocket science. Probably not, but then I don't think tiling is rocket science, or earth bonding, or a lot of the questions asked here. Now that's where you're wrong. The cooker ignition circuit was developed (along with PTFE) by NASA scientists for lighting Saturn 5 rockets from a distance after they had several failures with the "light blue touch paper and retire to a safe distance" Tiles, of course, were invented for making Space Shuttles look cool and sparkle on re-entry, although the use of "No More Nails" to stick them on with might not have been the best idea -- geoff |
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In message , Ric
writes "Ian Stirling" wrote in message ... Pete C wrote: On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 17:52:20 +0100, "Christian McArdle" wrote: Yes. Did you see that programme where they got some high up bods in the Soviet and US space programmes together? The American was boasting about how they'd spent millions getting an upside down anti-gravity pen working. When asking the Soviets how they solved that problem, they replied that they used pencils! Urban legend, though in weightless conditions bits of pencil lead won't be any good to your electronics. Coloured pencils are free of even this small hazard. What about crayons? That's what the monkeys gave the cosmonauts to use -- geoff |
#29
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In message , "Mungo \"two sheds\"
Toadfoot" writes Ric wrote: Pens are obsolete - you could use a laptop instead. Do they work upside-down? Yes, I've seen them used in Australia -- geoff |
#30
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"raden" wrote in message ... In message , "Mungo \"two sheds\" Toadfoot" writes Christian McArdle wrote: I've got a New World Royale 600 gas cooker with a self-lighting oven - you turn the gas on and the sparker clicks away until the oven lights. First, how's it do that then? Hardly rocket science. A flame can support an electrical current. When there is a flame between the contacts no spark, when not it jumps the gap. A flame also acts as a diode, called flame rectification, which is also used for proving. I first came across it in the mid 1970s. I have a Thorn Moffat hob which has this ignition method, the best. If the flame blows out it sparks until it relights. The hob is 24 years old and still looks like new. It beat my new Neff by a mile, which consider naf and its ignition system is a switch the know hits as it is turned on. If you turn too fast it misses. Way behind the Thorn. German engineering? Probably not, but then I don't think tiling is rocket science, or earth bonding, or a lot of the questions asked here. Now that's where you're wrong. The cooker ignition circuit was developed (along with PTFE) by NASA scientists for lighting Saturn 5 rockets from a distance after they had several failures with the "light blue touch paper and retire to a safe distance" Tiles, of course, were invented for making Space Shuttles look cool and sparkle on re-entry, although the use of "No More Nails" to stick them on with might not have been the best idea -- geoff |
#31
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"raden" wrote SNIP Now that's where you're wrong. The cooker ignition circuit was developed (along with PTFE) by NASA scientists for lighting Saturn 5 rockets from a distance after they had several failures with the "light blue touch paper and retire to a safe distance" It's untrue, BTW, that Teflon came out of the Apollo program. PTFE was actually discovered accidentally by Roy Plunkett at DuPont in 1938. It was first used for making gaskets and seals resistant to uranium hexafluoride during the Manhattan Project. It might not rocket science, but nuclear physics, perhaps. Steve S |
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In article ,
"SteveS" writes: "raden" wrote SNIP Now that's where you're wrong. The cooker ignition circuit was developed (along with PTFE) by NASA scientists for lighting Saturn 5 rockets from a distance after they had several failures with the "light blue touch paper and retire to a safe distance" It's untrue, BTW, that Teflon came out of the Apollo program. PTFE was actually discovered accidentally by Roy Plunkett at DuPont in 1938. It was first used for making gaskets and seals resistant to uranium hexafluoride during the Manhattan Project. It might not rocket science, but nuclear physics, perhaps. However, it took years to work out how to make it stick to the bottom of a saucepan, and those who remember the first teflon pans will doubtless recall that it didn't stick for long ;-) -- Andrew Gabriel |
#33
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In message , SteveS
writes "raden" wrote SNIP Now that's where you're wrong. The cooker ignition circuit was developed (along with PTFE) by NASA scientists for lighting Saturn 5 rockets from a distance after they had several failures with the "light blue touch paper and retire to a safe distance" It's untrue, BTW, that Teflon came out of the Apollo program. PTFE was actually discovered accidentally by Roy Plunkett at DuPont in 1938. No, really ? Is that where they first learned to extract urea -- geoff |
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"raden" wrote in message ... In message , SteveS writes "raden" wrote SNIP Now that's where you're wrong. The cooker ignition circuit was developed (along with PTFE) by NASA scientists for lighting Saturn 5 rockets from a distance after they had several failures with the "light blue touch paper and retire to a safe distance" It's untrue, BTW, that Teflon came out of the Apollo program. PTFE was actually discovered accidentally by Roy Plunkett at DuPont in 1938. No, really ? Is that where they first learned to extract urea Just pointing out a popular misconception. No need to get sarcy. |
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In message , SteveS
writes "raden" wrote in message ... In message , SteveS writes "raden" wrote SNIP Now that's where you're wrong. The cooker ignition circuit was developed (along with PTFE) by NASA scientists for lighting Saturn 5 rockets from a distance after they had several failures with the "light blue touch paper and retire to a safe distance" It's untrue, BTW, that Teflon came out of the Apollo program. PTFE was actually discovered accidentally by Roy Plunkett at DuPont in 1938. No, really ? Is that where they first learned to extract urea Just pointing out a popular misconception. No need to get sarcy. I've never been driven by necessity You could also have pointed out that they didn't light the blue touch paper to start Saturn 5's, IIRC it was usually orange -- geoff |
#36
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"SteveS" wrote in message ... "raden" wrote in message ... In message , SteveS writes "raden" wrote SNIP Now that's where you're wrong. The cooker ignition circuit was developed (along with PTFE) by NASA scientists for lighting Saturn 5 rockets from a distance after they had several failures with the "light blue touch paper and retire to a safe distance" It's untrue, BTW, that Teflon came out of the Apollo program. PTFE was actually discovered accidentally by Roy Plunkett at DuPont in 1938. No, really ? Is that where they first learned to extract urea Just pointing out a popular misconception. No need to get sarcy. After a while you will get to know that Maxie has problems. You have to treat him nicely. |
#37
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In message , Owain
writes "Christian McArdle" wrote | I've got a New World Royale 600 gas cooker with a self-lighting | oven - you turn the gas on and the sparker clicks away until | the oven lights. | First, how's it do that then? | Hardly rocket science. Presumably there must be a similar mechanism on rockets to ignite them? I can't see NASA sending out for some two-furra-pound gas lighters every time they want to do a launch. Didn't another thread degenerate into exactly the same discussion last week ? -- geoff |
#38
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In message , "Mungo \"two sheds\"
Toadfoot" writes I've got a New World Royale 600 gas cooker with a self-lighting oven - you turn the gas on and the sparker clicks away until the oven lights. First, how's it do that then? Mirrors and magic Si As they say, keep up at t'back Just the same as ignition circuits in central heating boilers (which must get discussed at least once a month), a flame acts like a resistive diode, which is what the flame sense circuit senses Second, it only works when it feels like it - about 7 times in 10. Any idea why? Electrode not properly in the flame, intermittent contact on the HT lead, bad earthing, gremlins just out to get you. -- geoff |
#39
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"raden" wrote
| In message , Owain writes | Presumably there must be a similar mechanism on rockets to ignite | them? I can't see NASA sending out for some two-furra-pound gas | lighters every time they want to do a launch. | Didn't another thread degenerate into exactly the same discussion | last week ? I posted that last week (Wed 22/9/04). Perhaps the Internet magic string is soggy in places. Owain |
#40
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raden wrote:
In message , "Mungo \"two sheds\" Toadfoot" writes I've got a New World Royale 600 gas cooker with a self-lighting oven - you turn the gas on and the sparker clicks away until the oven lights. First, how's it do that then? Mirrors and magic Si As they say, keep up at t'back Just the same as ignition circuits in central heating boilers (which must get discussed at least once a month) Shaddup , a flame acts like a resistive diode, which is what the flame sense circuit senses Second, it only works when it feels like it - about 7 times in 10. Any idea why? Electrode not properly in the flame, intermittent contact on the HT lead, bad earthing, gremlins just out to get you. It's all clever stuff, innit? It's stopped working completely now, btw. It *is* gremlins! Si |
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