Self-lighting oven
 

I've got a New World Royale 600 gas cooker with a self-lighting oven - you
turn the gas on and the sparker clicks away until the oven lights.

First, how's it do that then?

Second, it only works when it feels like it - about 7 times in 10. Any idea
why?

Ta

Si

I've got a New World Royale 600 gas cooker with a self-lighting oven - you
turn the gas on and the sparker clicks away until the oven lights.

First, how's it do that then?

Hardly rocket science.

Second, it only works when it feels like it - about 7 times in 10. Any
idea
why?

Flame sensor, igniter, knob position sensor or any cables or PCBs linking
them, I'd think.

Christian.

Christian McArdle wrote:
I've got a New World Royale 600 gas cooker with a self-lighting oven
- you turn the gas on and the sparker clicks away until the oven
lights.

First, how's it do that then?

Hardly rocket science.


Probably not, but then I don't think tiling is rocket science, or earth
bonding, or a lot of the questions asked here.

Second, it only works when it feels like it - about 7 times in 10.
Any idea why?

Flame sensor, igniter, knob position sensor or any cables or PCBs
linking them, I'd think.


Thanks for that.

Si

"Mungo "two sheds" Toadfoot" wrote in message
...
Christian McArdle wrote:
I've got a New World Royale 600 gas cooker with a self-lighting oven
- you turn the gas on and the sparker clicks away until the oven
lights.

First, how's it do that then?

Hardly rocket science.


Probably not, but then I don't think tiling is rocket science, or earth
bonding, or a lot of the questions asked here.

You wouldn't want to bond a rocket to earth - that would defeat the object
surely.

Second, it only works when it feels like it - about 7 times in 10.
Any idea why?

Flame sensor, igniter, knob position sensor or any cables or PCBs
linking them, I'd think.


Thanks for that.

Si

Ric wrote:
"Mungo "two sheds" Toadfoot" wrote in message
...
Christian McArdle wrote:
I've got a New World Royale 600 gas cooker with a self-lighting
oven - you turn the gas on and the sparker clicks away until the
oven lights.

First, how's it do that then?

Hardly rocket science.


Probably not, but then I don't think tiling is rocket science, or
earth bonding, or a lot of the questions asked here.

You wouldn't want to bond a rocket to earth - that would defeat the
object surely.


Hehehe! Might as well though, for the good they do. Ah, but where would we
be without pens wot write upside-down?

Si

Ric wrote:

Pens are obsolete - you could use a laptop instead.

Do they work upside-down?

Si

"Mungo "two sheds" Toadfoot" wrote in message
...
Ric wrote:
"Mungo "two sheds" Toadfoot" wrote in message
...
Christian McArdle wrote:
I've got a New World Royale 600 gas cooker with a self-lighting
oven - you turn the gas on and the sparker clicks away until the
oven lights.

First, how's it do that then?

Hardly rocket science.


Probably not, but then I don't think tiling is rocket science, or
earth bonding, or a lot of the questions asked here.

You wouldn't want to bond a rocket to earth - that would defeat the
object surely.


Hehehe! Might as well though, for the good they do. Ah, but where would we
be without pens wot write upside-down?

Pens are obsolete - you could use a laptop instead.

Ric wrote:

"Mungo "two sheds" Toadfoot" wrote in message
...
Christian McArdle wrote:
I've got a New World Royale 600 gas cooker with a self-lighting oven
- you turn the gas on and the sparker clicks away until the oven
lights.

First, how's it do that then?

Hardly rocket science.


Probably not, but then I don't think tiling is rocket science, or earth
bonding, or a lot of the questions asked here.

You wouldn't want to bond a rocket to earth - that would defeat the object
surely.

Depends what the object is.
If you'r testing it to see if it works properly, it can be a lot
more convenient if it's tied down, so you can easily measure stuff,
and you don't have to go and haul it out of the ocean afterwards.

"Christian McArdle" wrote
| I've got a New World Royale 600 gas cooker with a self-lighting
| oven - you turn the gas on and the sparker clicks away until
| the oven lights.
| First, how's it do that then?
| Hardly rocket science.

Presumably there must be a similar mechanism on rockets to ignite them? I
can't see NASA sending out for some two-furra-pound gas lighters every time
they want to do a launch.

Owain

Hardly rocket science.


Probably not, but then I don't think tiling is rocket science, or earth
bonding, or a lot of the questions asked here.

Actually, thinking about it, I think it might be rocket science. If the
thing didn't light when you started spewing fuel out of the end, it wouldn't
be good, would it?

Christian.

Mungo "two sheds" Toadfoot wrote:

Hehehe! Might as well though, for the good they do. Ah, but where would we
be without pens wot write upside-down?

Back with pencils ;-)

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh.

On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 17:28:39 +0100, Mungo "two sheds" Toadfoot wrote:

Ric wrote:

Pens are obsolete - you could use a laptop instead.

Do they work upside-down?

Si

I would image most bits would work fine,may have a bit of a problem with
the hard disk though

Martin Warby

Hehehe! Might as well though, for the good they do. Ah, but where would
we
be without pens wot write upside-down?

Back with pencils ;-)

Yes. Did you see that programme where they got some high up bods in the
Soviet and US space programmes together? The American was boasting about how
they'd spent millions getting an upside down anti-gravity pen working. When
asking the Soviets how they solved that problem, they replied that they used
pencils!

Christian.

Owain wrote:
"Christian McArdle" wrote
I've got a New World Royale 600 gas cooker with a self-lighting
oven - you turn the gas on and the sparker clicks away until
the oven lights.
First, how's it do that then?
Hardly rocket science.

Presumably there must be a similar mechanism on rockets to ignite
them? I can't see NASA sending out for some two-furra-pound gas
lighters every time they want to do a launch.


Blimey - it *is* rocket science! :)

Si

Owain wrote:
"Christian McArdle" wrote
| I've got a New World Royale 600 gas cooker with a self-lighting
| oven - you turn the gas on and the sparker clicks away until
| the oven lights.
| First, how's it do that then?
| Hardly rocket science.

Presumably there must be a similar mechanism on rockets to ignite them? I
can't see NASA sending out for some two-furra-pound gas lighters every time
they want to do a launch.

It varies.
For example, the solid rockets on the shuttle are ignited by a small rocket
motor
mounted in the top.
This is lit by a small pyrotechnic device.
When it lights, it fills the chamber of the rocket with hot pressurised
gas, and rapidly lights off the main engine.

The main engines do almost use gas-lighters.
They are basically really big spark plugs, hooked up to a high power
ignition system.

Ian Stirling wrote:

The main engines do almost use gas-lighters.
They are basically really big spark plugs, hooked up to a high power
ignition system.

Well FMOB! :)

Every day's a school day.

Si

"Mungo "two sheds" Toadfoot" wrote in message
...
I've got a New World Royale 600 gas cooker with a self-lighting oven - you
turn the gas on and the sparker clicks away until the oven lights.

First, how's it do that then?

It is by flame rectifcation when the oven ignites the ignition generator
senses the flame in the spark gap and turns off

Second, it only works when it feels like it - about 7 times in 10. Any
idea
why?

Ta

Si

What happens when it does not work ? Do you mean you mean it doesnt ignite
or does not stop sparking when oven is lit ?

Peter

Peter wrote:
"Mungo "two sheds" Toadfoot" wrote in message
...
I've got a New World Royale 600 gas cooker with a self-lighting oven
- you turn the gas on and the sparker clicks away until the oven
lights.

First, how's it do that then?

It is by flame rectifcation when the oven ignites the ignition
generator senses the flame in the spark gap and turns off


Ah, well that's half of it. That could explain why it works better when I've
given it a good scrubbing.

Second, it only works when it feels like it - about 7 times in 10.
Any idea why?

What happens when it does not work ? Do you mean you mean it doesnt
ignite or does not stop sparking when oven is lit ?


It just doesn't spark at all and we have to push the ignition button. Not a
problem, of course, but things that are supposed to work annoy me when they
don't. Might there be a switch on the oven gas tap? I'll go and give it a
prod (technical term)...

Aha! I've never played before...:)
If I turn the knob just a few degrees, before the gas starts coming out
even, it starts sparking. Switch?

Si

On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 17:15:01 +0100, Mungo "two sheds" Toadfoot wrote:

Christian McArdle wrote:
I've got a New World Royale 600 gas cooker with a self-lighting oven
- you turn the gas on and the sparker clicks away until the oven
lights.

First, how's it do that then?

Hardly rocket science.


Probably not, but then I don't think tiling is rocket science, or earth
bonding, or a lot of the questions asked here.

OK. I'm not familiar with this model but other models which work like this
do the following:

Attached to the spindle of the gas knob is a microswitch unit which powers
the sparker.
The electrodes of the sparker once the gas is lit are immersed in the
flame this means the that although the sparker is running the mini bolt of
lightning is shorted out by the flame and can't be heard. [2]
All the rest of the operation (flame failure detection and regulo stuff)
is the same as all other ovens.

[2] I beleive the Pott. Netaheat boilers work like this also.


Second, it only works when it feels like it - about 7 times in 10.
Any idea why?

Duff microswitch unit on the gas knob.
Poor HT cabling, Poor/eroded electrodes...

Most other things are more likely hard faults.


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

"Martin Warby" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 17:28:39 +0100, Mungo "two sheds" Toadfoot wrote:

Ric wrote:

Pens are obsolete - you could use a laptop instead.

Do they work upside-down?

Si

I would image most bits would work fine,may have a bit of a problem with
the hard disk though

Would probably be okay upside down - although the bearings might go if you
used it on its side.

Martin Warby

"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
. net...
Hehehe! Might as well though, for the good they do. Ah, but where would
we
be without pens wot write upside-down?

Back with pencils ;-)

Yes. Did you see that programme where they got some high up bods in the
Soviet and US space programmes together? The American was boasting about
how
they'd spent millions getting an upside down anti-gravity pen working.
When
asking the Soviets how they solved that problem, they replied that they
used
pencils!

But have you ever tried sharpening a pencil in zero gravity?

But have you ever tried sharpening a pencil in zero gravity?

I presumed that self propelling types were specified, but maybe I'm wrong.

Christian.

Ed Sirett wrote:

Duff microswitch unit on the gas knob.

Thanks Ed, I think it's this. If I give it a gentle (heh) bash when it's not
working, it does.

Si

On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 17:52:20 +0100, "Christian McArdle"
wrote:


Yes. Did you see that programme where they got some high up bods in the
Soviet and US space programmes together? The American was boasting about how
they'd spent millions getting an upside down anti-gravity pen working. When
asking the Soviets how they solved that problem, they replied that they used
pencils!

Urban legend, though in weightless conditions bits of pencil lead
won't be any good to your electronics.

cheers,
Pete.

Pete C wrote:
On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 17:52:20 +0100, "Christian McArdle"
wrote:


Yes. Did you see that programme where they got some high up bods in the
Soviet and US space programmes together? The American was boasting about how
they'd spent millions getting an upside down anti-gravity pen working. When
asking the Soviets how they solved that problem, they replied that they used
pencils!

Urban legend, though in weightless conditions bits of pencil lead
won't be any good to your electronics.

Coloured pencils are free of even this small hazard.

"Ian Stirling" wrote in message
...
Pete C wrote:
On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 17:52:20 +0100, "Christian McArdle"
wrote:


Yes. Did you see that programme where they got some high up bods in the
Soviet and US space programmes together? The American was boasting about
how
they'd spent millions getting an upside down anti-gravity pen working.
When
asking the Soviets how they solved that problem, they replied that they
used
pencils!

Urban legend, though in weightless conditions bits of pencil lead
won't be any good to your electronics.

Coloured pencils are free of even this small hazard.

What about crayons?

In message , "Mungo \"two sheds\"
Toadfoot" writes
Christian McArdle wrote:
I've got a New World Royale 600 gas cooker with a self-lighting oven
- you turn the gas on and the sparker clicks away until the oven
lights.

First, how's it do that then?

Hardly rocket science.


Probably not, but then I don't think tiling is rocket science, or earth
bonding, or a lot of the questions asked here.

Now that's where you're wrong. The cooker ignition circuit was developed
(along with PTFE) by NASA scientists for lighting Saturn 5 rockets from
a distance after they had several failures with the "light blue touch
paper and retire to a safe distance"

Tiles, of course, were invented for making Space Shuttles look cool and
sparkle on re-entry, although the use of "No More Nails" to stick them
on with might not have been the best idea

--
geoff

In message , Ric
writes

"Ian Stirling" wrote in message
...
Pete C wrote:
On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 17:52:20 +0100, "Christian McArdle"
wrote:


Yes. Did you see that programme where they got some high up bods in the
Soviet and US space programmes together? The American was boasting about
how
they'd spent millions getting an upside down anti-gravity pen working.
When
asking the Soviets how they solved that problem, they replied that they
used
pencils!

Urban legend, though in weightless conditions bits of pencil lead
won't be any good to your electronics.

Coloured pencils are free of even this small hazard.

What about crayons?

That's what the monkeys gave the cosmonauts to use

--
geoff

In message , "Mungo \"two sheds\"
Toadfoot" writes
Ric wrote:

Pens are obsolete - you could use a laptop instead.

Do they work upside-down?

Yes, I've seen them used in Australia
--
geoff

"raden" wrote in message
...
In message , "Mungo \"two sheds\"
Toadfoot" writes
Christian McArdle wrote:
I've got a New World Royale 600 gas cooker with a self-lighting oven
- you turn the gas on and the sparker clicks away until the oven
lights.

First, how's it do that then?

Hardly rocket science.

A flame can support an electrical current. When there is a flame between
the contacts no spark, when not it jumps the gap. A flame also acts as a
diode, called flame rectification, which is also used for proving. I first
came across it in the mid 1970s.

I have a Thorn Moffat hob which has this ignition method, the best. If the
flame blows out it sparks until it relights. The hob is 24 years old and
still looks like new. It beat my new Neff by a mile, which consider naf and
its ignition system is a switch the know hits as it is turned on. If you
turn too fast it misses. Way behind the Thorn. German engineering?

Probably not, but then I don't think tiling is rocket science, or earth
bonding, or a lot of the questions asked here.

Now that's where you're wrong. The cooker ignition circuit was developed
(along with PTFE) by NASA scientists for lighting Saturn 5 rockets from
a distance after they had several failures with the "light blue touch
paper and retire to a safe distance"

Tiles, of course, were invented for making Space Shuttles look cool and
sparkle on re-entry, although the use of "No More Nails" to stick them
on with might not have been the best idea

--
geoff

"raden" wrote
SNIP
Now that's where you're wrong. The cooker ignition circuit was developed
(along with PTFE) by NASA scientists for lighting Saturn 5 rockets from a
distance after they had several failures with the "light blue touch paper
and retire to a safe distance"

It's untrue, BTW, that Teflon came out of the Apollo program. PTFE was
actually discovered accidentally by Roy Plunkett at DuPont in 1938. It was
first used for making gaskets and seals resistant to uranium hexafluoride
during the Manhattan Project. It might not rocket science, but nuclear
physics, perhaps.

Steve S

In article ,
"SteveS" writes:

"raden" wrote
SNIP
Now that's where you're wrong. The cooker ignition circuit was developed
(along with PTFE) by NASA scientists for lighting Saturn 5 rockets from a
distance after they had several failures with the "light blue touch paper
and retire to a safe distance"

It's untrue, BTW, that Teflon came out of the Apollo program. PTFE was
actually discovered accidentally by Roy Plunkett at DuPont in 1938. It was
first used for making gaskets and seals resistant to uranium hexafluoride
during the Manhattan Project. It might not rocket science, but nuclear
physics, perhaps.

However, it took years to work out how to make it stick to the
bottom of a saucepan, and those who remember the first teflon
pans will doubtless recall that it didn't stick for long ;-)

--
Andrew Gabriel

In message , SteveS
writes

"raden" wrote
SNIP
Now that's where you're wrong. The cooker ignition circuit was developed
(along with PTFE) by NASA scientists for lighting Saturn 5 rockets from a
distance after they had several failures with the "light blue touch paper
and retire to a safe distance"

It's untrue, BTW, that Teflon came out of the Apollo program. PTFE was
actually discovered accidentally by Roy Plunkett at DuPont in 1938.


No, really ?

Is that where they first learned to extract urea


--
geoff

"raden" wrote in message
...
In message , SteveS
writes

"raden" wrote
SNIP
Now that's where you're wrong. The cooker ignition circuit was developed
(along with PTFE) by NASA scientists for lighting Saturn 5 rockets from
a
distance after they had several failures with the "light blue touch
paper
and retire to a safe distance"

It's untrue, BTW, that Teflon came out of the Apollo program. PTFE was
actually discovered accidentally by Roy Plunkett at DuPont in 1938.


No, really ?

Is that where they first learned to extract urea


Just pointing out a popular misconception. No need to get sarcy.

In message , SteveS
writes

"raden" wrote in message
...
In message , SteveS
writes

"raden" wrote
SNIP
Now that's where you're wrong. The cooker ignition circuit was developed
(along with PTFE) by NASA scientists for lighting Saturn 5 rockets from
a
distance after they had several failures with the "light blue touch
paper
and retire to a safe distance"

It's untrue, BTW, that Teflon came out of the Apollo program. PTFE was
actually discovered accidentally by Roy Plunkett at DuPont in 1938.


No, really ?

Is that where they first learned to extract urea


Just pointing out a popular misconception. No need to get sarcy.

I've never been driven by necessity

You could also have pointed out that they didn't light the blue touch
paper to start Saturn 5's, IIRC it was usually orange

--
geoff

"SteveS" wrote in message
...

"raden" wrote in message
...
In message , SteveS
writes

"raden" wrote
SNIP
Now that's where you're wrong. The cooker ignition circuit was
developed
(along with PTFE) by NASA scientists for lighting Saturn 5 rockets
from
a
distance after they had several failures with the "light blue touch
paper
and retire to a safe distance"

It's untrue, BTW, that Teflon came out of the Apollo program. PTFE was
actually discovered accidentally by Roy Plunkett at DuPont in 1938.


No, really ?

Is that where they first learned to extract urea


Just pointing out a popular misconception. No need to get sarcy.

After a while you will get to know that Maxie has problems. You have to
treat him nicely.

In message , Owain
writes
"Christian McArdle" wrote
| I've got a New World Royale 600 gas cooker with a self-lighting
| oven - you turn the gas on and the sparker clicks away until
| the oven lights.
| First, how's it do that then?
| Hardly rocket science.

Presumably there must be a similar mechanism on rockets to ignite them? I
can't see NASA sending out for some two-furra-pound gas lighters every time
they want to do a launch.

Didn't another thread degenerate into exactly the same discussion last
week ?

--
geoff

In message , "Mungo \"two sheds\"
Toadfoot" writes
I've got a New World Royale 600 gas cooker with a self-lighting oven - you
turn the gas on and the sparker clicks away until the oven lights.

First, how's it do that then?

Mirrors and magic Si

As they say, keep up at t'back

Just the same as ignition circuits in central heating boilers (which
must get discussed at least once a month), a flame acts like a resistive
diode, which is what the flame sense circuit senses


Second, it only works when it feels like it - about 7 times in 10. Any idea
why?

Electrode not properly in the flame, intermittent contact on the HT
lead, bad earthing, gremlins just out to get you.

--
geoff

"raden" wrote
| In message , Owain writes
| Presumably there must be a similar mechanism on rockets to ignite
| them? I can't see NASA sending out for some two-furra-pound gas
| lighters every time they want to do a launch.
| Didn't another thread degenerate into exactly the same discussion
| last week ?

I posted that last week (Wed 22/9/04). Perhaps the Internet magic string is
soggy in places.

Owain

raden wrote:
In message , "Mungo \"two sheds\"
Toadfoot" writes
I've got a New World Royale 600 gas cooker with a self-lighting oven
- you turn the gas on and the sparker clicks away until the oven
lights. First, how's it do that then?

Mirrors and magic Si

As they say, keep up at t'back

Just the same as ignition circuits in central heating boilers (which
must get discussed at least once a month)

Shaddup :)

, a flame acts like a
resistive diode, which is what the flame sense circuit senses


Second, it only works when it feels like it - about 7 times in 10.
Any idea why?

Electrode not properly in the flame, intermittent contact on the HT
lead, bad earthing, gremlins just out to get you.

It's all clever stuff, innit? It's stopped working completely now, btw. It
*is* gremlins!

Si