It was in yesterday's Times. Apparently they have poor bones and they
are shorter than normal.
I suppose the authorities should pick up on this. But it's like FGM,
child abuse that's overlooked because a lot of people do it. However I
don't suppose vegans are regarded as being above the law like certain
other groups.

Bill

On Sun, 6 Jun 2021 08:29:07 +0100, williamwright
wrote:

It was in yesterday's Times. Apparently they have poor bones and they
are shorter than normal.
I suppose the authorities should pick up on this. But it's like FGM,
child abuse that's overlooked because a lot of people do it. However I
don't suppose vegans are regarded as being above the law like certain
other groups.

Bill
Not sure about the poor bones, I usually just spit them out.
Being shorter though, now that might be a solution to the
overpopulation problem, if we can just make people smaller using
dietry means. Don't see how we're going to solve the problem
otherwise.
Yes, I know BIGGER is better... but just saying.
--

Ric_Treen

"Richard Treen" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 6 Jun 2021 08:29:07 +0100, williamwright
wrote:

It was in yesterday's Times. Apparently they have poor bones and they
are shorter than normal.
I suppose the authorities should pick up on this. But it's like FGM,
child abuse that's overlooked because a lot of people do it. However I
don't suppose vegans are regarded as being above the law like certain
other groups.

Bill
Not sure about the poor bones, I usually just spit them out.
Being shorter though, now that might be a solution to the
overpopulation problem, if we can just make people smaller using
dietry means.

Don't see how we're going to solve the problem otherwise.

That 'problem' is fixing itself. EVERY country has seen the birth rate
dropping dramatically except where its already right down in the noise.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...#1950_and_2015

And China and India COMBINED, by far the two most
populous countrys isnt even self replacing now.

Yes, I know BIGGER is better... but just saying.

On Mon, 7 Jun 2021 03:30:14 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

--
John addressing the senile Australian pest:
"You are a complete idiot. But you make me larf. LOL"
MID:

On Sunday, June 6, 2021 at 8:29:11 AM UTC+1, wrote:
It was in yesterday's Times. Apparently they have poor bones and they
are shorter than normal.
I suppose the authorities should pick up on this. But it's like FGM,
child abuse that's overlooked because a lot of people do it. However I
don't suppose vegans are regarded as being above the law like certain
other groups.

Bill

And you think this association means ... what, exactly?

https://xkcd.com/552/

On Sun, 6 Jun 2021 02:41:44 -0700 (PDT), jkn
wrote:

On Sunday, June 6, 2021 at 8:29:11 AM UTC+1, wrote:
It was in yesterday's Times. Apparently they have poor bones and they
are shorter than normal.
I suppose the authorities should pick up on this. But it's like FGM,
child abuse that's overlooked because a lot of people do it. However I
don't suppose vegans are regarded as being above the law like certain
other groups.

Bill

And you think this association means ... what, exactly?

1) It means Bill is now going to get a bolloking from all the netcops
for posting about veganism without marking it OT:

2) Bill doesn't care about any association, that wasn't why he posted.

3) Because Bill is so desperate to push his carnist agenda, he tries
to link feeding a child a vegan diet (as approved by the BDA and ADA),
with FGM, hoping it will sensationalise / link the two things.

4) Bill is obviously now suffering from the guilt created by his
actions (killing and eating innocent and sentient creatures (like
livestock)) with his morals that stops him killing and eating innocent
and sentient creatures (like his dogs).

4) Bill didn't include any link or reference as if he did, people
might also read things like:

"The number of vegans in Britain has quadrupled in four years to some
600,000, amid rising concerns over animal welfare and the
environment."

(So, human health is much more than just what people eat it also
includes things the level of pollution they have to live in and how
much food and water they have available).

"Lead author Professor Jonathan Wells, from UCL, said: 'We know that
people are increasingly being drawn to plant-based diets for several
reasons, including promoting animal welfare and reducing our impact on
the climate.

Indeed, a global shift towards plant-based diets is now recognised to
be crucial for preventing climate breakdown, and we strongly support
this effort.

We found that vegan children had lower bone mass even after accounting
for their smaller body and bone size. This means they may enter
adolescence, a phase when bone-specific nutrient needs are higher,
with a bone deficit already established.

If such deficits are caused by a diet that persists into adolescence,
this might increase the risk of adverse bone outcomes later in life."

(*IF* such deficits ... *MIGHT* ...)

"However, on the positive side, the vegan children had 25 per cent
lower levels of 'bad' LDL cholesterol and lower levels of body fat.

Co-author Dr Malgorzata Desmond said: 'We found the vegans had higher
intakes of nutrients that indicated an 'unprocessed' type of plant
-based diet, which is in turn linked to lower body fat and better
cardiovascular risk profile."

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...R-average.html

https://www.ucl.ac.uk/child-health/n...e-growth-risks

One thing that generally happens when people go vegan and follow a
vegan diet is that they actually start taking notice of the things
they eat and often discover a whole range of high protein, high
nutrient, high fibre food stuffs that can easily be included in your
diet in an unrefined / unprocessed form.

Anything has to be better than a diet of 'chicken nuggets' and chips.

Personally, I would rather my child was 3cm shorter at some arbitrary
time in their life but live a longer life and not die of bowel cancer
[1], heart disease way before they are old enough to possibly suffer
the other non-life-threatening issues that *might* exist.

https://xkcd.com/552/

Quite.

The good thing though is that it shows that my discussions here aren't
going un-considered, even by the carnists and if Bill ends up learning
a bit more about veganism and *all* the facets it covers, that can
only be a good thing (and not for me specifically of course, but
certainly millions of innocent sentient creatures, the environment and
human health).

Cheers, T i m

[1] Step daughter died at 39 of bowel cancer and loved her processed
meats and was never a big consumer of fruit and veg.

On 06/06/2021 12:17, T i m wrote:
On Sun, 6 Jun 2021 02:41:44 -0700 (PDT), jkn
wrote:

On Sunday, June 6, 2021 at 8:29:11 AM UTC+1, wrote:
It was in yesterday's Times. Apparently they have poor bones and they
are shorter than normal.
I suppose the authorities should pick up on this. But it's like FGM,
child abuse that's overlooked because a lot of people do it. However I
don't suppose vegans are regarded as being above the law like certain
other groups.

Bill

And you think this association means ... what, exactly?

1) It means Bill is now going to get a bolloking from all the netcops
for posting about veganism without marking it OT:

2) Bill doesn't care about any association, that wasn't why he posted.

3) Because Bill is so desperate to push his carnist agenda, he tries
to link feeding a child a vegan diet (as approved by the BDA and ADA),
with FGM, hoping it will sensationalise / link the two things.

If he's anything like me he cares for his family and doesn't want his
family is disadvantaged by force-feeding children a diet that will harm
them.

4) Bill is obviously now suffering from the guilt created by his
actions (killing and eating innocent and sentient creatures (like
livestock)) with his morals that stops him killing and eating innocent
and sentient creatures (like his dogs).

Just because you feel guilt eating animals doesn't mean we do.

4) Bill didn't include any link or reference as if he did, people
might also read things like:

Try this one:

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/2...r-intelligence

There are others. With the increase number of vegans there is more
concern over the damage it causes children. It's good to see common
sense tends to prevail:

https://qz.com/1622642/making-your-k...me-in-belgium/

On 06/06/2021 11:17, T i m wrote:

On Sunday, June 6, 2021 at 8:29:11 AM UTC+1, wrote:

It was in yesterday's Times. Apparently they have poor bones and they
are shorter than normal.

I suppose the authorities should pick up on this. But it's like FGM,
child abuse that's overlooked because a lot of people do it. However I
don't suppose vegans are regarded as being above the law like certain
other groups.

Personally, I would rather my child was 3cm shorter at some arbitrary
time in their life

You like making choices for other sentient beings, don't you, especially
those that can't answer back.

but live a longer life and not die of bowel cancer

To which authority does one apply to have this choice enforced?

--
Spike

On 06/06/2021 10:41, jkn wrote:
On Sunday, June 6, 2021 at 8:29:11 AM UTC+1, wrote:
It was in yesterday's Times. Apparently they have poor bones and they
are shorter than normal.
I suppose the authorities should pick up on this. But it's like FGM,
child abuse that's overlooked because a lot of people do it. However I
don't suppose vegans are regarded as being above the law like certain
other groups.

Bill

And you think this association means ... what, exactly?

https://xkcd.com/552/

BLM trumps VLM?

On 06/06/2021 08:29, williamwright wrote:
It was in yesterday's Times. Apparently they have poor bones and they
are shorter than normal.
I suppose the authorities should pick up on this. But it's like FGM,
child abuse that's overlooked because a lot of people do it. However I
don't suppose vegans are regarded as being above the law like certain
other groups.

Bill

Veganism is just another crackpot religion, hence the sermons we
constantly get on this group about the subject

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 06/06/2021 11:54, alan_m wrote:
On 06/06/2021 08:29, williamwright wrote:
It was in yesterday's Times. Apparently they have poor bones and they
are shorter than normal.
I suppose the authorities should pick up on this. But it's like FGM,
child abuse that's overlooked because a lot of people do it. However I
don't suppose vegans are regarded as being above the law like certain
other groups.

Bill

Veganism is just another crackpot religion, hence the sermons we
constantly get on this group about the subject

There is nothing wrong with veganism, or indeed any blind faith. It
becomes wrong when pressure is applied through abusing or forcing others
who don't conform. It then becomes fanaticism, aka crackpot cult/religion.

T i m does a great disservice to genuine vegans who follow their own
personal beliefs without trying to impose them on others.

On Sun, 6 Jun 2021 11:54:34 +0100, alan_m
wrote:

snip

Veganism is just another crackpot religion,

Aww bless. Ok, let's replace the word 'veganism' with 'not being cruel
to and killing animals' and 'religion / beliefs' with 'fact' and see
how you then sound. That's right, 'like a nutter'! ;-)

hence the sermons

Advocacy, as happened to end slavery, to give women the vote, to end
racism, more things I'm sure people like you preferred others had kept
quiet about.

we
constantly get on this group about the subject

And that you have no obligation to read let alone reply to, unless
your inability to refrain is the same as that from causing pain,
suffering, exploitation and death to innocent animals of course?

And what about the pollution to the environment the livestock cause
that affects *everyone*, I'm guessing you don't care about that
either, or the fact that what we are doing re food isn't sustainable?

Or all the habitat loss leading to species loss, probably 'not your
problem' either (other than you are causing it of course), till some
animal you like to eat goes extinct of course.

Luckily more and more people *do* care about such things and are
actually doing something about it, for the benefit of everyone (other
than those making a living from the death and exploitation of animals
of course).

Cheers, T i m

On 06/06/2021 14:35, T i m wrote:

Or all the habitat loss leading to species loss, probably 'not your
problem' either (other than you are causing it of course), till some
animal you like to eat goes extinct of course.

You forgot to mention habitat loss due to growing crops for vegans.

--
Spike

On Sun, 6 Jun 2021 15:15:40 +0000, Spike
wrote:

On 06/06/2021 14:35, T i m wrote:

Or all the habitat loss leading to species loss, probably 'not your
problem' either (other than you are causing it of course), till some
animal you like to eat goes extinct of course.

You forgot to mention habitat loss due to growing crops for vegans.

Ah yes, thanks, crops that yield more food than using the same land to
feed livestock (directly or indirectly).

And we don't need the crap land to still be able to feed everyone,
that can be re-wilded.

Cheers, T i m

On 06/06/2021 18:25, T i m wrote:
On Sun, 6 Jun 2021 15:15:40 +0000, Spike
wrote:

On 06/06/2021 14:35, T i m wrote:

Or all the habitat loss leading to species loss, probably 'not your
problem' either (other than you are causing it of course), till some
animal you like to eat goes extinct of course.

You forgot to mention habitat loss due to growing crops for vegans.

Ah yes, thanks, crops that yield more food than using the same land to
feed livestock (directly or indirectly).

But often extensive use of the soil for vegetable crops is destroying
the soil structure. Where I'm currently staying I can see very high
hillsides with fields growing grass and are full of sheep. I wonder what
the state of this environment would be if the land was reallocated to
just growing crops for vegan food.


--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 06/06/2021 17:25, T i m wrote:
Spike wrote:

On 06/06/2021 14:35, T i m wrote:

Or all the habitat loss leading to species loss, probably 'not your
problem' either (other than you are causing it of course), till some
animal you like to eat goes extinct of course.

You forgot to mention habitat loss due to growing crops for vegans.

Ah yes, thanks, crops that yield more food than using the same land to
feed livestock (directly or indirectly).

So in your Post-Truth world, habitat loss and consequent species loss is
to be celebrated just so long as it supports your anti-meat-eating
veganist crusade.

And we don't need the crap land to still be able to feed everyone,
that can be re-wilded.

Not if you've been conditioned to add a thin, cold gruel to your mug of
tea, both of the ingredients of which came by ship.

--
Spike

On 06/06/2021 16:15, Spike wrote:
On 06/06/2021 14:35, T i m wrote:

Or all the habitat loss leading to species loss, probably 'not your
problem' either (other than you are causing it of course), till some
animal you like to eat goes extinct of course.

You forgot to mention habitat loss due to growing crops for vegans.


And for "bio fuel"

On Sun, 6 Jun 2021 19:26:39 +0100, Andrew
wrote:

On 06/06/2021 16:15, Spike wrote:
On 06/06/2021 14:35, T i m wrote:

Or all the habitat loss leading to species loss, probably 'not your
problem' either (other than you are causing it of course), till some
animal you like to eat goes extinct of course.

You forgot to mention habitat loss due to growing crops for vegans.


And for "bio fuel"

Nope, it's the exact same issue.

There is enough arable land to grow enough food to feed the entire
world population 1.5x over.

If we weren't 'wasting space' to grow food for livestock, we could be
using that space for growing other stuff, inc biofuels.

Cheers, T i m

On 06/06/2021 11:54, alan_m wrote:
On 06/06/2021 08:29, williamwright wrote:
It was in yesterday's Times. Apparently they have poor bones and they
are shorter than normal.
I suppose the authorities should pick up on this. But it's like FGM,
child abuse that's overlooked because a lot of people do it. However I
don't suppose vegans are regarded as being above the law like certain
other groups.

Bill

Veganism is just another crackpot religion, hence the sermons we
constantly get on this group about the subject



And they are not very good at stats.

https://trulyexperiences.com/blog/ve...uk-statistics/


If I was making stats up I would at least try to make them look credible.


--
Adam

On 06/06/2021 17:13, ARW wrote:
On 06/06/2021 11:54, alan_m wrote:
On 06/06/2021 08:29, williamwright wrote:
It was in yesterday's Times. Apparently they have poor bones and they
are shorter than normal.
I suppose the authorities should pick up on this. But it's like FGM,
child abuse that's overlooked because a lot of people do it. However
I don't suppose vegans are regarded as being above the law like
certain other groups.

Bill

Veganism is just another crackpot religion, hence the sermons we
constantly get on this group about the subject



And they are not very good at stats.

https://trulyexperiences.com/blog/ve...uk-statistics/


If I was making stats up I would at least try to make them look credible.

I liked the bit:

* 7.2 million British adults currently follow a meat-free diet
* 262,000 more men than women dont consume meat (7.2 million vs 7 million)

Of course meat free doesn't mean vegan.

It is true that 82% of statistics are made up in the spot.

On 06/06/2021 18:23, Fredxx wrote:
On 06/06/2021 17:13, ARW wrote:
On 06/06/2021 11:54, alan_m wrote:
On 06/06/2021 08:29, williamwright wrote:
It was in yesterday's Times. Apparently they have poor bones and
they are shorter than normal.
I suppose the authorities should pick up on this. But it's like FGM,
child abuse that's overlooked because a lot of people do it. However
I don't suppose vegans are regarded as being above the law like
certain other groups.

Bill

Veganism is just another crackpot religion, hence the sermons we
constantly get on this group about the subject



And they are not very good at stats.

https://trulyexperiences.com/blog/ve...uk-statistics/


If I was making stats up I would at least try to make them look credible.

I liked the bit:

* 7.2 million British adults currently follow a meat-free diet
* 262,000 more men than women dont consume meat (7.2 million vs 7 million)

Of course meat free doesn't mean vegan.

It is true that 82% of statistics are made up in the spot.


50% of Brits know someone that is vegan.

Personally I would tattoo the ****ers for target practice of a knuckle
sandwich.







--
Adam

In article , Fredxx wrote:
On 06/06/2021 17:13, ARW wrote:
On 06/06/2021 11:54, alan_m wrote:
On 06/06/2021 08:29, williamwright wrote:
It was in yesterday's Times. Apparently they have poor bones and they
are shorter than normal. I suppose the authorities should pick up on
this. But it's like FGM, child abuse that's overlooked because a lot
of people do it. However I don't suppose vegans are regarded as
being above the law like certain other groups.

Bill

Veganism is just another crackpot religion, hence the sermons we
constantly get on this group about the subject



And they are not very good at stats.

https://trulyexperiences.com/blog/ve...uk-statistics/


If I was making stats up I would at least try to make them look
credible.

I liked the bit:

* 7.2 million British adults currently follow a meat-free diet * 262,000
more men than women don‘t consume meat (7.2 million vs 7 million)

Of course meat free doesn't mean vegan.

It is true that 82% of statistics are made up in the spot.

a great many years ago, Prince Philip said that there were only 3
statistics that mattered and theyb were vital.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On Sunday, June 6, 2021 at 6:48:30 PM UTC+1, charles wrote:

a great many years ago, Prince Philip said that there were only 3
statistics that mattered and theyb were vital.

--

Something has always puzzled me about people who follow proscriptive diets (vegan, halal, kosher, etc).

If a such a person invites me to dinner, they will no doubt serve me their preferred type of food and I will probably enjoy it thoroughly.

On the other hand, if I offer return hospitality, I will be expected to research new recipes, shop for unfamiliar ingredients and stress over creating dishes I've never made before rather than relax in good company with food I'm accustomed to cooking and which reflects my way of life. If I don't do all of that, the chances are the diet-follower will be mortally offended and thus will end the friendship.

Hey, I like some vegan/kosher/halal dishes. Why can you not be broad minded enough to try some of mine, too?

(I feel I should add here that, of course, if a dinner guest has an allergy or other health condition which precludes certain foods, then I will do my utmost to ensure the offending item(s) has no place on the table. Nothing kills a dinner party quicker than killing a guest.)

I'm not so sure its a real effect, it could be that its a statistical
problem. Often when you look into these trials and findings, you find so
called weighting factors that would seem logical, but can skew the results.
Also of course a balanced diet is just as important for plant diets as they
are for omnivorous ones and there is the snag of course, who decides what is
the correct diet.
Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"williamwright" wrote in message
...
It was in yesterday's Times. Apparently they have poor bones and they are
shorter than normal.
I suppose the authorities should pick up on this. But it's like FGM, child
abuse that's overlooked because a lot of people do it. However I don't
suppose vegans are regarded as being above the law like certain other
groups.

Bill

I've not read the article but I've been vegan for about 18 years.
A well-planned and thought out vegan diet is required. Then in my opinion it's incredibly healthy.
There are issues with possible zinc deficiency and B12 but I can counter these by saying that soil has become depleted of minerals by generations of intensive farming. It's thought that over a billion people are zinc deficient. Safe to say, they're not all vegan, though many will be vegetarians if they live in India.
B12 is actually misunderstood. People think it only comes from meat. It actually is a bacterium that lives on leaves, which the animals eat.
I do supplement with B12 and zinc picolinate but if we were living thousands of years ago, growing our own food, etc. I doubt I'd need to.
To the person who called veganism a "crackpot religion", it's neither of those things.

On 09/06/2021 19:18, Ed wrote:
I've not read the article but I've been vegan for about 18 years.
A well-planned and thought out vegan diet is required. Then in my opinion it's incredibly healthy.
There are issues with possible zinc deficiency and B12 but I can counter these by saying that soil has become depleted of minerals by generations of intensive farming. It's thought that over a billion people are zinc deficient. Safe to say, they're not all vegan, though many will be vegetarians if they live in India.
B12 is actually misunderstood. People think it only comes from meat. It actually is a bacterium that lives on leaves, which the animals eat.
I do supplement with B12 and zinc picolinate but if we were living thousands of years ago, growing our own food, etc. I doubt I'd need to.
To the person who called veganism a "crackpot religion", it's neither of those things.


You sound reasonable.
Perhaps you could persuade the resident zealot to tone it down a bit.
Just post with OT:Ping T i m

You sound reasonable.
Perhaps you could persuade the resident zealot to tone it down a bit.
Just post with OT:Ping T i m

To be honest I only went to this newsgroup to ask about my kitchen sink.
I've not read the entire thread but they usually go a similar way of militant replies from both sides. I don't preach to anyone about what they should eat. Veganism has been politicised but I just want people to get the whole story that not eating meat is completely fine.
It always amazes me how het up people get about diet.

On 09/06/2021 20:22, Ed wrote:
You sound reasonable. Perhaps you could persuade the resident
zealot to tone it down a bit. Just post with OT:Ping T i m

To be honest I only went to this newsgroup to ask about my kitchen
sink.

And you are very welcome - nice to have a bit of DIY round here from
time to time :-)




--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 09/06/2021 23:54, John Rumm wrote:
On 09/06/2021 20:22, Ed wrote:
You sound reasonable. Perhaps you could persuade the resident
zealot to tone it down a bit. Just post with OT:Ping T i m

To be honest I only went to this newsgroup to ask about my kitchen
sink.

And you are very welcome - nice to have a bit of DIY round here from
time to time :-)

+1

On 09/06/2021 20:00, Richard wrote:



Perhaps you could persuade the resident zealot to tone it down a bit.


ROFLMAO.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqCT...nel=Movieclips

might be possible




--
Adam

On 09/06/2021 19:18, Ed wrote:
I've not read the article but I've been vegan for about 18 years.

There are a number of articles that associate a child's vegan diet with
poor brain development and reduced IQ. The same is not true for
vegetarians or omnivores who consume some fish, meat and/or meat products.

A well-planned and thought out vegan diet is required. Then in my
opinion it's incredibly healthy.

Without evidence it's difficult to make generalisations. Certainly
vegetarians live longer, and the cause and effect are out for debate. Do
more intelligent people live longer anyway.

There are issues with possible zinc
deficiency and B12 but I can counter these by saying that soil has
become depleted of minerals by generations of intensive farming.

And so animal feed is sometimes supplemented with the various trace
elements. Much soil used for pasture is near fallow, and less likely to
be overgrazed.

It's
thought that over a billion people are zinc deficient. Safe to say,
they're not all vegan, though many will be vegetarians if they live
in India.

And the age expectancy in India isn't the same as the western world.

B12 is actually misunderstood. People think it only comes
from meat. It actually is a bacterium that lives on leaves, which the
animals eat.

And that bacterium, together with cobalt minerals is processed into B12.
Normally in ruminants' stomachs, hence why milk and other meat products
are also important sources of these vitamins.

I do supplement with B12 and zinc picolinate but if we
were living thousands of years ago, growing our own food, etc. I
doubt I'd need to.

There are known vitamins, and some unknown, unknown vitamins vital for
health and development. There is so little we understand of the human
body. Personally I prefer my family have a natural balanced diet which
we have evolved to consume. There are articles that show longevity is
associated with diets our ancestors lived on.

To the person who called veganism a "crackpot
religion", it's neither of those things.

I have great respect for the average vegan, one that doesn't abuse those
around them when he finds out that we eat meat, and don't have any major
issues in doing so. I put you in this category, if I might call it one.

The boundary is crossed if I call you names, or if you call me names,
something a fellow poster seems keen to do to anyone who consumes meat,
or is a vegetarian consuming animal products, and can stand up and
justify their position. I would correctly describe him as a fanatic.

The boundary is crossed if I call you names, or if you call me names,
something a fellow poster seems keen to do to anyone who consumes meat,
or is a vegetarian consuming animal products, and can stand up and
justify their position. I would correctly describe him as a fanatic.

I don't think there's a perfect diet that works for everyone. We have to find what works for us. I *became* a vegan rather than being born into it so I've been able to tune my diet accordingly.
I predict within 30 years people in the western world will have practically stopped eating meat because of the push for sustainability and alternatives developed that are so similar that nobody will need to eat meat.
It'll be become like smoking. It's quite rare to see people smoking cigarettes these days, at least in the city I'm in.

On 09/06/2021 21:30, Ed wrote:
The boundary is crossed if I call you names, or if you call me names,
something a fellow poster seems keen to do to anyone who consumes meat,
or is a vegetarian consuming animal products, and can stand up and
justify their position. I would correctly describe him as a fanatic.

I don't think there's a perfect diet that works for everyone. We have to find what works for us. I *became* a vegan rather than being born into it so I've been able to tune my diet accordingly.
I predict within 30 years people in the western world will have practically stopped eating meat because of the push for sustainability and alternatives developed that are so similar that nobody will need to eat meat.
It'll be become like smoking. It's quite rare to see people smoking cigarettes these days, at least in the city I'm in.

Smoking was eventually proven to be harmful. It was known by the tobacco
companies to be harmful while the public was told smoking was healthy.

I'd wager as time passes on the same will be said for veganism.

Currently there are many proponents saying eating a plant based diet is
healthy, and the possible impact on the environment.

However, even now there are a number of studies which show that children
are harmed by following a vegan diet and some authorities are waking up
to this.

I predict less meat consumption but until we have a greater
understanding of out diet and how it effects growth in children I can't
see it changing to the extent you imagine in 30 years time. Even then I
don't expect a tray of chicken thighs to have a warning "eating meat kills".

Anyway, this is a DIY group and best to stick to that. I believe there
are some vegan groups that might cater to your desires.

"Fredxx" wrote in message
...
On 09/06/2021 21:30, Ed wrote:
The boundary is crossed if I call you names, or if you call me names,
something a fellow poster seems keen to do to anyone who consumes meat,
or is a vegetarian consuming animal products, and can stand up and
justify their position. I would correctly describe him as a fanatic.

I don't think there's a perfect diet that works for everyone. We have to
find what works for us. I *became* a vegan rather than being born into it
so I've been able to tune my diet accordingly.
I predict within 30 years people in the western world will have
practically stopped eating meat because of the push for sustainability
and alternatives developed that are so similar that nobody will need to
eat meat.
It'll be become like smoking. It's quite rare to see people smoking
cigarettes these days, at least in the city I'm in.

Smoking was eventually proven to be harmful. It was known by the tobacco
companies to be harmful while the public was told smoking was healthy.

I'd wager as time passes on the same will be said for veganism.

Currently there are many proponents saying eating a plant based diet is
healthy, and the possible impact on the environment.

However, even now there are a number of studies which show that children
are harmed by following a vegan diet and some authorities are waking up to
this.

I predict less meat consumption

More is much more likely in the bulk of the world.

but until we have a greater understanding of out diet and how it effects
growth in children I can't see it changing to the extent you imagine in 30
years time. Even then I don't expect a tray of chicken thighs to have a
warning "eating meat kills".

Ed wrote

The boundary is crossed if I call you names, or if you call me names,
something a fellow poster seems keen to do to anyone who consumes
meat, or is a vegetarian consuming animal products, and can stand up
and justify their position. I would correctly describe him as a fanatic.

I don't think there's a perfect diet that works for everyone.

Depends on how you define works.

We have to find what works for us.

But that isnt possible lifespan wise.

I *became* a vegan rather than being born into
it so I've been able to tune my diet accordingly.

But wont ever know how successful that
was, even when you are about to die.

I predict within 30 years people in the western
world will have practically stopped eating meat

Not a chance, you watch.

because of the push for sustainability and alternatives developed
that are so similar that nobody will need to eat meat.

Thats bull****. Most dont give a **** about sustainability
and realise that fake meat doesnt fix that anyway.

It'll be become like smoking.

Nope, nothing like.

It's quite rare to see people smoking cigarettes
these days, at least in the city I'm in.

For a different reason. Its much harder to smoke
now and stupidly expensive and only fools dont
realise that it ****s your health severely.

Eating meat is nothing like that. Its much harder
to be a vegan than an omnivore and costs more
too and it doesnt **** your health either.

On Thu, 10 Jun 2021 14:08:17 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


FLUSH the auto-contradicting trolling senile asshole's latest troll****
unread


--
Kerr-Mudd,John addressing the auto-contradicting senile cretin:
"Auto-contradictor Rod is back! (in the KF)"
MID:

On Wed, 9 Jun 2021 11:18:07 -0700 (PDT), Ed
wrote:

I've not read the article

Nor did I. Most are BS and posted by zealots. ;-)

but I've been vegan for about 18 years.

Good on you. ;-)

A well-planned and thought out vegan diet is required.

Any diet (and by 'diet' we mean what you eat every day to survive of
course) should be well planned. The funny thing is few seem bothered
what anyone eats until you mention you are a 'vegan' diet then all of
a sudden they become 1) interested in your diet and 2) become
nutrition experts themselves! Up to that point, they assume everyone
must be eating a 'Balanced diet' and we know that's rarely the case.

Then in my opinion it's incredibly healthy.

It is indeed. Lower LDL cholesterol, less chance of bowel cancer,
heart attacks or diabetes. It's also better as a consequence to us all
not having to live in so much pollution, lower risk of zoonotic
pandemics and antibiotic resistance.

There are issues with possible zinc deficiency and B12 but I can counter these by saying that soil has become depleted of minerals by generations of intensive farming.

Quite. And why they supplement the feed we grow (in places like the
Amazon) and feed the animals, along with providing it via implants in
their digestive systems.

It's thought that over a billion people are zinc deficient. Safe to say, they're not all vegan, though many will be vegetarians if they live in India.

It is suggested that 40% of the general population are B12 deficient
and as you say, the majority of those will (statistically) be meat
eaters.

B12 is actually misunderstood. People think it only comes from meat. It actually is a bacterium that lives on leaves, which the animals eat.

That and the water they / we used to drink that contained the same
bacteria. Now it's all chlorinated etc.

I do supplement with B12 and zinc picolinate

As do we, both directly and via the many foods that rare already
supplemented ... and that seems more sensible than generating the B12
and feeding it to animals (70% of the B12 created is fed to livestock)
in the hope that 1) we eat the meat (and many don't for many reasons)
and that we actually absorb it. It is known that we absorb the B12
more efficiently in the crystalline form (as found in supplements)
than trying to extract it from the meat protein.

but if we were living thousands of years ago, growing our own food, etc. I doubt I'd need to.

Quite, but we aren't and there are way more of us vieing for the same
resources (land, food, water) than there were 1000 years ago. ;-(

To the person who called veganism a "crackpot religion", it's neither of those things.

Of course it isn't, as humanity moving to a plant based diet is being
recommended by many experts as what we are doing now isn't sustainable
and because of cold hard facts, not any 'beliefs'.

In fact, the 'belief' seems to only come from those who 'believe' it's
'normal' for us to still be causing innocent sentient creatures
unnecessary pain, suffering, exploitation and death in 2021 when for
the vast majority there are so many alternatives available (and often
were of course). ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On 09/06/2021 21:48, T i m wrote:

snip

It is suggested that 40% of the general population are B12 deficient
and as you say, the majority of those will (statistically) be meat
eaters.

Since there are 30 times more non-vegans than vegans that is a given.

But even with your own statistics you posted a while ago, you showed you
were vastly more likely to be deficient in B12 if you were following a
strict vegan diet.

On 09/06/2021 20:48, T i m wrote:

The funny thing is few seem bothered
what anyone eats until you mention you are a 'vegan' diet then all of
a sudden they become 1) interested in your diet and 2) become
nutrition experts themselves! Up to that point, they assume everyone
must be eating a 'Balanced diet' and we know that's rarely the case.

I don't expect Ed to go back over the posts, but you became vegan in
January 2020. Until the end of March in that year your posts on the
group could be said to have carried on in the same manner as previously.
From about the end of March you suddenly launched into vitriolic attacks
on meat-eaters, labelling them as 'murderers' and 'rapists'. It quickly
became clear from the way your postings then progressed that your real
agenda was not veganism per se, but that of anti-meat-eating veganist
crusade, which is something completely different. It was this that
prompted people to counter what you put across as 'facts', and against
which you have no real answer except to resort to abuse. HTH.

--
Spike

On 10/06/2021 09:35, Spike wrote:
On 09/06/2021 20:48, T i m wrote:

The funny thing is few seem bothered
what anyone eats until you mention you are a 'vegan' diet then all of
a sudden they become 1) interested in your diet and 2) become
nutrition experts themselves! Up to that point, they assume everyone
must be eating a 'Balanced diet' and we know that's rarely the case.

I don't expect Ed to go back over the posts, but you became vegan in
January 2020. Until the end of March in that year your posts on the
group could be said to have carried on in the same manner as previously.
From about the end of March you suddenly launched into vitriolic attacks
on meat-eaters, labelling them as 'murderers' and 'rapists'. It quickly
became clear from the way your postings then progressed that your real
agenda was not veganism per se, but that of anti-meat-eating veganist
crusade, which is something completely different. It was this that
prompted people to counter what you put across as 'facts', and against
which you have no real answer except to resort to abuse. HTH.

I wasn't aware of the time-line. So that must all have happened when his
B12 stores ran out.

He really needs help.