Lots of post on them but what do they cost

On 16/04/2021 03:58 pm, Broadback wrote:

Lots of post on them but what do they cost

Less than I could pay, but way more than I am prepared to pay.

On 16/04/2021 15:58, Broadback wrote:
Lots of post on them but what do they cost

To much. They tend to have a limited range and the expensive batteries
have a reported life span of about 8 years. Quite possibly I will not
have to buy one.

--
Michael Chare

On 16/04/2021 15:58, Broadback wrote:
Lots of post on them but what do they cost

Depends what you mean by cost.

Plenty of known unknowns - and some unknown unknowns.


PA

Broadback wrote:
Lots of post on them but what do they cost

https://www.carbuyer.co.uk/reviews/r...-electric-cars

Smart EQ ForTwo hatchback
"£6,000 more than the previously available
petrol-powered Smart Fortwo"

priced from £16,850 | Autocar

Skoda Citigo e iV hatchback
"For the price of the base model - around £17,500
theres no other electric car that offers the same
breadth of qualities as the Citigo e iV."

SEAT Mii electric
"82bhp electric motor, 160 miles of range." see prev. item
About £20,300

MINI Electric hatchback
"starts at under £25,000. 145-mile range"

"Prices start at £24,400 (assuming the governments
£3,500 EV grant remains post-April)"

MG ZS EV SUV
"after the Government grant it dips below £25,000. 163 miles of range"

Peugeot e-208 hatchback
211 miles
"The 2021 e-208 price list kicks off at £26,725
for the Active Premium model (cost includes the
£3500 government subsidy)."

Renault ZOE
claimed 245 miles
"Starting from £30,995 after PCG £2500"

Honda e hatchback
137 miles
"its set to cost £26,500 after £3500 grant"

Nissan Leaf hatchback
40kWh battery, 168 miles
£25,995 after some grant

# This entry included as reference point

Tesla Model 3
Standard Range Plus 254 miles £43,490 (£37,340 including £3500 grant)
Long Range 348 miles £49,990
The Performance 329 miles £59,990 (silly and pointless, really)

It's really a matter of "what can you get away with".
You're pricing "cars for work", not "jolly in countryside"

Buying a Model3 LR implies an interest in driving
the countryside, in which case you start looking at
"Fast Charge" options. Note that the cars do not like
Fast Charging, they count the number of times you do it,
and to meet battery warranty, may unceremoniously
disable the feature when you're in the countryside
and plug into the Fast Charger. You have to research
the various car models, and see if obnoxious behaviors
are instituted by software. Cars work best, if charged
overnight on the home charger, at the "non-Fast" rate,
which is plenty fast for overnight. Overnight charging
implies a "Car for work" design.

Pcharge | /\_ === charger peak is quoted value,
| / \__ does not use peak for very long
| / \ A 345kW Taycan does not use 345kW!
+----------- Time

The price has some proportionality to the battery size,
but you can probably spot one of the items being slightly
off the best fit line. When you see that, it probably
means the specs are fabricated, or were annotated later.

The Model3 in China, uses Lithium Iron Phosphate, which should
halve the range and also do something to the price. The
rest of the world would use Lithium Cobalt.

You get better life from the batteries, by not charging
them to 100%. For example, buying extra range and not
using it, implies a larger number of charge cycles.
You would operate the car from 60% downto 0% charge,
rather than 100% downto 40%, which is harder on the battery.
When there is excessive range, you don't fill it all the
way up. When driving the countryside, you "splurge" by
filling it just before the trip starts.

The idea is silly... except when mandated by law or economics
(fuel taxes etc). We have a carbon tax here to improve
our thinking on the topic.

Charging at a filling station on the highway, costs 2X charging
at home. Charging at home is the economy solution. Damn that
"car for work" model.

Paul

On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 15:58:46 +0100, Broadback wrote:

Lots of post on them but what do they cost

How is the government going to recover all the fuel tax, when the the
majority of vehicles are electric.

jon wrote
Broadback wrote

Lots of post on them but what do they cost

How is the government going to recover all the fuel
tax, when the the majority of vehicles are electric.

They wont be, you watch.

Its just another mindless load of bull**** like diesels were before them.

On Sat, 17 Apr 2021 15:16:48 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

--
Sqwertz to Rodent Speed:
"This is just a hunch, but I'm betting you're kinda an argumentative
asshole.
MID:

On 17/04/2021 05:42, jon wrote:
On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 15:58:46 +0100, Broadback wrote:

Lots of post on them but what do they cost

How is the government going to recover all the fuel tax, when the the
majority of vehicles are electric.


They will dye the fuel electrons red and and put a tax on them. A large
fine will be imposed if they find you driving an electric car on any
other coloured electrons, included those dyed green.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 17/04/2021 08:36, alan_m wrote:
On 17/04/2021 05:42, jon wrote:
On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 15:58:46 +0100, Broadback wrote:

Lots of post on them but what do they cost

How is the government going to recover all the fuel tax, when the the
majority of vehicles are electric.


They will dye the fuel electrons red and and put a tax on them. A large
fine will be imposed if they find you driving an electric car on any
other coloured electrons, included those dyed green.


Not blue, brown, black or grey ?

On Sat, 17 Apr 2021 04:42:47 -0000 (UTC), jon wrote:

On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 15:58:46 +0100, Broadback wrote:

Lots of post on them but what do they cost

How is the government going to recover all the fuel tax, when the the
majority of vehicles are electric.

BEVs are heavier then ICE vehicles; wear on the road is proportional to
fourth power of weight. Lots more potholes!
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

On Saturday, 17 April 2021 at 09:31:01 UTC+1, PeterC wrote:
On Sat, 17 Apr 2021 04:42:47 -0000 (UTC), jon wrote:

On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 15:58:46 +0100, Broadback wrote:

Lots of post on them but what do they cost

How is the government going to recover all the fuel tax, when the the
majority of vehicles are electric.
BEVs are heavier then ICE vehicles; wear on the road is proportional to
fourth power of weight. Lots more potholes!

Isn't that why HGVs, coaches, buses, etc., do ridiculously more damage than even heavy cars?

On 17/04/2021 10:08, polygonum_on_google wrote:
On Saturday, 17 April 2021 at 09:31:01 UTC+1, PeterC wrote:
On Sat, 17 Apr 2021 04:42:47 -0000 (UTC), jon wrote:

On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 15:58:46 +0100, Broadback wrote:

Lots of post on them but what do they cost

How is the government going to recover all the fuel tax, when the the
majority of vehicles are electric.
BEVs are heavier then ICE vehicles; wear on the road is proportional to
fourth power of weight. Lots more potholes!

Isn't that why HGVs, coaches, buses, etc., do ridiculously more damage than even heavy cars?

yes.


--
I would rather have questions that cannot be answered...
....than to have answers that cannot be questioned

Richard Feynman

"PeterC" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 17 Apr 2021 04:42:47 -0000 (UTC), jon wrote:

On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 15:58:46 +0100, Broadback wrote:

Lots of post on them but what do they cost

How is the government going to recover all the fuel tax, when the the
majority of vehicles are electric.

BEVs are heavier then ICE vehicles; wear on the road is proportional to
fourth power of weight. Lots more potholes!

Nope, furrows in the roads!!!

On Sat, 17 Apr 2021 20:25:58 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH yet more of the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread


--
Richard addressing senile Rodent Speed:
"**** you're thick/pathetic excuse for a troll."
MID:

On 17/04/2021 05:42, jon wrote:
On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 15:58:46 +0100, Broadback wrote:

Lots of post on them but what do they cost

How is the government going to recover all the fuel tax, when the the
majority of vehicles are electric.


Tyre tax.

A new tyre duty based on average milege obtainable with reasonable use
of each tyre.

On 17/04/2021 10:49, Andy Bennet wrote:
On 17/04/2021 05:42, jon wrote:
On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 15:58:46 +0100, Broadback wrote:

Lots of post on them but what do they cost

How is the government going to recover all the fuel tax, when the the
majority of vehicles are electric.


Tyre tax.

A new tyre duty based on average milege obtainable with reasonable use
of each tyre.

Creative!

Yup, that would work...


--
I would rather have questions that cannot be answered...
....than to have answers that cannot be questioned

Richard Feynman

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 17/04/2021 10:49, Andy Bennet wrote:
On 17/04/2021 05:42, jon wrote:
On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 15:58:46 +0100, Broadback wrote:

Lots of post on them but what do they cost

How is the government going to recover all the fuel tax, when the the
majority of vehicles are electric.


Tyre tax.

A new tyre duty based on average milege obtainable with reasonable use
of each tyre.

Creative!

Yup, that would work...



In what way is this better than a simple mileage tax? A tyre tax would see
a lot of cars running around on bald tyres or remoulds.

Daft idea.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

On 17/04/2021 10:49, Andy Bennet wrote:
On 17/04/2021 05:42, jon wrote:
On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 15:58:46 +0100, Broadback wrote:

Lots of post on them but what do they cost

How is the government going to recover all the fuel tax, when the the
majority of vehicles are electric.


Tyre tax.

A new tyre duty based on average milege obtainable with reasonable use
of each tyre.

What could possibly go wrong when you replace a pay-as-you-go tax most
people don't notice with a lumpy tax that'd probably increase the price
of tyres by around a factor 4*? Start with:

maximum hiss

theft of wheels rockets (gor bless them cordless angle grinders)

smuggling (of dangerous tyres too)

Ministers get blame when cars with bald tyes skid and kill kiddies



*back of envelope assuming new cars account for half new tyres in UK

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 17/04/2021 11:45, Robin wrote:
On 17/04/2021 10:49, Andy Bennet wrote:
On 17/04/2021 05:42, jon wrote:
On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 15:58:46 +0100, Broadback wrote:

Lots of post on them but what do they cost

How is the government going to recover all the fuel tax, when the the
majority of vehicles are electric.


Tyre tax.

A new tyre duty based on average milege obtainable with reasonable use
of each tyre.

What could possibly go wrong when you replace a pay-as-you-go tax most
people don't notice with a lumpy tax that'd probably increase the price
of tyres by around a factor 4*? Start with:

maximum hiss

theft of wheels rockets (gor bless them cordless angle grinders)

smuggling (of dangerous tyres too)

Ministers get blame when cars with bald tyes skid and kill kiddies



*back of envelope assuming new cars account for half new tyres in UK


Each tyre has a microchip embedded in the rubber (like dog chipping) and
is logged at the MOT test. Tyre fitting stations can also update the
cars MOT data so tyres can be locked to car data.

On 17/04/2021 11:45, Robin wrote:
On 17/04/2021 10:49, Andy Bennet wrote:
On 17/04/2021 05:42, jon wrote:
On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 15:58:46 +0100, Broadback wrote:

Lots of post on them but what do they cost

How is the government going to recover all the fuel tax, when the the
majority of vehicles are electric.


Tyre tax.

A new tyre duty based on average milege obtainable with reasonable use
of each tyre.

What could possibly go wrong when you replace a pay-as-you-go tax most
people don't notice with a lumpy tax that'd probably increase the price
of tyres by around a factor 4*? Start with:

maximum hiss

theft of wheels rockets (gor bless them cordless angle grinders)

smuggling (of dangerous tyres too)

Ministers get blame when cars with bald tyes skid and kill kiddies



*back of envelope assuming new cars account for half new tyres in UK

They will stick GPS in every car and couple it up to a credit card in
order for the ****ing thing to respond to the go pedal


--
"Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They
always run out of other people's money. It's quite a characteristic of them"

Margaret Thatcher

In message , The Natural Philosopher
writes
On 17/04/2021 11:45, Robin wrote:
On 17/04/2021 10:49, Andy Bennet wrote:
On 17/04/2021 05:42, jon wrote:
On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 15:58:46 +0100, Broadback wrote:

Lots of post on them but what do they cost

How is the government going to recover all the fuel tax, when the the
majority of vehicles are electric.


Tyre tax.

A new tyre duty based on average milege obtainable with reasonable
use of each tyre.
What could possibly go wrong when you replace a pay-as-you-go tax
most people don't notice with a lumpy tax that'd probably increase
the price of tyres by around a factor 4*? Start with:
maximum hiss
theft of wheels rockets (gor bless them cordless angle grinders)
smuggling (of dangerous tyres too)
Ministers get blame when cars with bald tyes skid and kill kiddies
*back of envelope assuming new cars account for half new tyres in
UK

They will stick GPS in every car and couple it up to a credit card in
order for the ****ing thing to respond to the go pedal

That seems unavoidable! How practical is it?

A couple of Jack Reacher novels refer to police recording their car
journeys via gps information.



--
Tim Lamb

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 17/04/2021 11:45, Robin wrote:
On 17/04/2021 10:49, Andy Bennet wrote:
On 17/04/2021 05:42, jon wrote:
On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 15:58:46 +0100, Broadback wrote:

Lots of post on them but what do they cost

How is the government going to recover all the fuel tax, when the the
majority of vehicles are electric.


Tyre tax.

A new tyre duty based on average milege obtainable with reasonable use
of each tyre.

What could possibly go wrong when you replace a pay-as-you-go tax most
people don't notice with a lumpy tax that'd probably increase the price
of tyres by around a factor 4*? Start with:

maximum hiss

theft of wheels rockets (gor bless them cordless angle grinders)

smuggling (of dangerous tyres too)

Ministers get blame when cars with bald tyes skid and kill kiddies



*back of envelope assuming new cars account for half new tyres in UK

They will stick GPS in every car and couple it up to a credit card in
order for the ****ing thing to respond to the go pedal


I know you posted that as a laugh

but personally I think the credit card in the slot is a much better way of
paying per mile than simply transparently billing the keeper's bank account.

There are lots of scenarios where payment for use of a vehicle, other than
by the keeper, is required.

Starting with the rental market, where having to post process the monthly
bill back to the 20 people who rented this car this month is going to add on
a considerable admin fee from the rental company for each hire.

Andy Bennet wrote:

A new tyre duty based on average milege obtainable with reasonable use
of each tyre.

Could you claim a refund for unrepairable punctures in low mileage tyres?

On 17/04/2021 11:49, Andy Burns wrote:
Andy Bennet wrote:

A new tyre duty based on average milege obtainable with reasonable use
of each tyre.

Could you claim a refund for unrepairable punctures in low mileage tyres?

Of course!

On 17/04/2021 11:53, Andy Bennet wrote:
On 17/04/2021 11:49, Andy Burns wrote:
Andy Bennet wrote:

A new tyre duty based on average milege obtainable with reasonable
use of each tyre.

Could you claim a refund for unrepairable punctures in low mileage tyres?

Of course!


Well I suppose a silver lining may be that theft of cable would fall off
as a certain class of criminal switched to nicking tyres to cut and cash in.

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 17/04/2021 11:53, Andy Bennet wrote:
On 17/04/2021 11:49, Andy Burns wrote:
Andy Bennet wrote:

A new tyre duty based on average milege obtainable with reasonable
use of each tyre.

Could you claim a refund for unrepairable punctures in low mileage tyres?

Of course!

The tyre fitters, clam back the VAT on unworn tyres.

--
"Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They
always run out of other people's money. It's quite a characteristic of them"

Margaret Thatcher

On 17/04/2021 11:05, Tim Streater wrote:
On 17 Apr 2021 at 10:49:43 BST, Andy Bennet wrote:

On 17/04/2021 05:42, jon wrote:
On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 15:58:46 +0100, Broadback wrote:

Lots of post on them but what do they cost

How is the government going to recover all the fuel tax, when the the
majority of vehicles are electric.


Tyre tax.

A new tyre duty based on average milege obtainable with reasonable use
of each tyre.

Need to be a bit careful with that. Otherwise it suddenly becomes profitable
for wide boys to start offering "low-cost" retreads on the sly and for others
to have an extra incentive to jack your car up.


No better or worse than siphoning fuel, doing a garage fill and run, or
useing red diesel.
Any scheme will be open to illegal fiddling by the lower orders of society.

On 17 Apr 2021 at 11:12:21 BST, "Andy Bennet" wrote:

On 17/04/2021 11:05, Tim Streater wrote:
On 17 Apr 2021 at 10:49:43 BST, Andy Bennet wrote:

On 17/04/2021 05:42, jon wrote:
On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 15:58:46 +0100, Broadback wrote:

Lots of post on them but what do they cost

How is the government going to recover all the fuel tax, when the the
majority of vehicles are electric.


Tyre tax.

A new tyre duty based on average milege obtainable with reasonable use
of each tyre.

Need to be a bit careful with that. Otherwise it suddenly becomes profitable
for wide boys to start offering "low-cost" retreads on the sly and for
others
to have an extra incentive to jack your car up.


No better or worse than siphoning fuel, doing a garage fill and run, or
useing red diesel.
Any scheme will be open to illegal fiddling by the lower orders of society.

You will need a government inspector to certify destructive punctures.

--
Roger Hayter

On 17/04/2021 11:12, Andy Bennet wrote:
On 17/04/2021 11:05, Tim Streater wrote:
On 17 Apr 2021 at 10:49:43 BST, Andy Bennet wrote:

On 17/04/2021 05:42, jon wrote:
Â* On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 15:58:46 +0100, Broadback wrote:
Â* Lots of post on them but what do they cost
Â* How is the government going to recover all the fuel tax, when the the
Â* majority of vehicles are electric.

Tyre tax.

A new tyre duty based on average milege obtainable with reasonable use
of each tyre.

Need to be a bit careful with that. Otherwise it suddenly becomes
profitable
for wide boys to start offering "low-cost" retreads on the sly and for
others
to have an extra incentive to jack your car up.


No better or worse than siphoning fuel, doing a garage fill and run, or
useing red diesel.
Any scheme will be open to illegal fiddling by the lower orders of society.



And the higher orders never commit any crimes?

Take Jeffery Archer as an example.

Have you read any of the books he wrote? Bring back hanging IMHO.



--
Adam

On 18/04/2021 20:56, ARW wrote:
On 17/04/2021 11:12, Andy Bennet wrote:
On 17/04/2021 11:05, Tim Streater wrote:
On 17 Apr 2021 at 10:49:43 BST, Andy Bennet wrote:

On 17/04/2021 05:42, jon wrote:
Â* On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 15:58:46 +0100, Broadback wrote:
Â* Lots of post on them but what do they cost
Â* How is the government going to recover all the fuel tax, when the
the
Â* majority of vehicles are electric.

Tyre tax.

A new tyre duty based on average milege obtainable with reasonable use
of each tyre.

Need to be a bit careful with that. Otherwise it suddenly becomes
profitable
for wide boys to start offering "low-cost" retreads on the sly and
for others
to have an extra incentive to jack your car up.


No better or worse than siphoning fuel, doing a garage fill and run,
or useing red diesel.
Any scheme will be open to illegal fiddling by the lower orders of
society.



And the higher orders never commit any crimes?

Take Jeffery Archer as an example.

Have you read any of the books he wrote? Bring back hanging IMHO.




All scum are lower order by definition, including trump.

On 17/04/2021 05:42, jon wrote:
On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 15:58:46 +0100, Broadback wrote:

Lots of post on them but what do they cost
At the moment various prices, depends on what you want, what it does,
who you want to impress, will it be cost effective.

A "sports" luxury car costs an excessive amount, a small family
hatchback costs more than the equivalent petrol version.

They will have depreciation given the spending of battery life, but
maybe lower servicing costs as mechanically they have less bits to maintain.

Also some of the computer technology is complex and some not really
serviceable by third parties, so a really used car may need to be
recycled when it breaks.

Ultimately, personal ownership will fall. "Your new car" will actually
be gained under a rental agreement, servicing and support included.


How is the government going to recover all the fuel tax, when the the
majority of vehicles are electric.


I don't feel right about Tesla handing out free supercharging to
customers. They should pay tax-in-kind on providing that benefit. In the
same vein that companies that supply free car parking (supermarkets),
and them that do free delivery (amazon) should also be taxed on the
service. Nothing is free.

It's time that the electorate had open access to discuss and amend
taxation, and transparency on rules and dodgy provided loopholes. Ever
seen Tolley's tax guide?

More people are going to live longer because of lower pollution and
other environmental effects, so it is likely they can continue to work
until the age of 75, pay more income tax and not claim all the state
pension they contributed for.

Then ...

We will eventually have tax/insurance per journey, our personal usage
tracked like it is with public transport. Private ownership and
servicing of vehicles will decline - a rental subscription model is
coming to allow access to the model of self driving car you've signed up
for.

If you want to enjoy your own driving skills, you'll have to do it on a
private track.... or do it in VR.

--
Adrian C

Adrian Caspersz wrote
jon wrote
Broadback wrote

Lots of post on them but what do they cost

At the moment various prices, depends on what you want, what it does, who
you want to impress, will it be cost effective.

A "sports" luxury car costs an excessive amount, a small family hatchback
costs more than the equivalent petrol version.

They will have depreciation given the spending of battery life, but maybe
lower servicing costs as mechanically they have less bits to maintain.

Dont buy that given that most dont spend much on servicing with an ICE.

Also some of the computer technology is complex and some not really
serviceable by third parties,

Dont buy that either.

so a really used car may need to be recycled when it breaks.

Or that either.

Ultimately, personal ownership will fall. "Your new car" will actually be
gained under a rental agreement, servicing and support included.

Dont buy that either.

How is the government going to recover all the fuel tax, when the the
majority of vehicles are electric.

I don't feel right about Tesla handing out free supercharging to
customers. They should pay tax-in-kind on providing that benefit. In the
same vein that companies that supply free car parking (supermarkets), and
them that do free delivery (amazon) should also be taxed on the service.
Nothing is free.

The air we breath is still free.

It's time that the electorate had open access to discuss and amend
taxation, and transparency on rules and dodgy provided loopholes.

Not going to happen, it just isnt viable.

Ever seen Tolley's tax guide?

More people are going to live longer because of lower pollution and other
environmental effects,

Thats very arguable indeed.

so it is likely they can continue to work until the age of 75, pay more
income tax and not claim all the state pension they contributed for.

Then ...

We will eventually have tax/insurance per journey, our personal usage
tracked like it is with public transport.

Pointless, too much paperwork involved.

Same with taxing those who walk their dog more than
those who dont have any dog and dont bother to exercise.

Private ownership and servicing of vehicles will decline

Bull****.

- a rental subscription model is coming to allow access to the model of
self driving car you've signed up for.

Some will go that route, but most wont. Some
already use taxis and ubers etc but most wont.

If you want to enjoy your own driving skills, you'll have to do it on a
private track.... or do it in VR.

Bull****. We dont even do that with aircraft or boats.

On Sun, 18 Apr 2021 08:07:53 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile pest's latest troll**** unread

--
JimK addressing senile Rodent Speed:
"I really feel the quality of your trolling has dropped in the last few
months..."
MID:

Chris Hogg wrote:
On Sat, 17 Apr 2021 04:42:47 -0000 (UTC), jon wrote:

On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 15:58:46 +0100, Broadback wrote:

Lots of post on them but what do they cost

How is the government going to recover all the fuel tax, when the the
majority of vehicles are electric.

Tax electricity instead.


Unlikely. Too many people bordering on fuel poverty as it is at the moment
and no way of differentiating consumption. More likely an NZ style mileage
tax.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

On 17/04/2021 08:01, Tim+ wrote:
Chris Hogg wrote:
On Sat, 17 Apr 2021 04:42:47 -0000 (UTC), jon wrote:

On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 15:58:46 +0100, Broadback wrote:

Lots of post on them but what do they cost

How is the government going to recover all the fuel tax, when the the
majority of vehicles are electric.

Tax electricity instead.


Unlikely. Too many people bordering on fuel poverty as it is at the moment
and no way of differentiating consumption. More likely an NZ style mileage
tax.

I would be surprised if electric vehicles do not have an inbuilt ability
to detect when they are on charge and what rate they are charging at. If
so, the means to measure their electricity use is already there and just
needs to be output.


--
Colin Bignell

On 17/04/2021 10:06, nightjar wrote:
On 17/04/2021 08:01, Tim+ wrote:
Chris Hogg wrote:
On Sat, 17 Apr 2021 04:42:47 -0000 (UTC), jon wrote:

On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 15:58:46 +0100, Broadback wrote:

Lots of post on them but what do they cost

How is the government going to recover all the fuel tax, when the the
majority of vehicles are electric.

Tax electricity instead.


Unlikely.Â* Too many people bordering on fuel poverty as it is at the
moment
and no way of differentiating consumption.Â* More likely an NZ style
mileage
tax.

I would be surprised if electric vehicles do not have an inbuilt ability
to detect when they are on charge and what rate they are charging at. If
so, the means to measure their electricity use is already there and just
needs to be output.


But involves a challenging job of data and then tax collection; and
loses the chance to incentivise reduced and off-peak travel by car.

Plus nerdy issues - eg if you take your EV to Italy, and France and
Italy (or the EU as a whole) have similar taxes.

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 17/04/2021 10:28, Robin wrote:
On 17/04/2021 10:06, nightjar wrote:
On 17/04/2021 08:01, Tim+ wrote:
Chris Hogg wrote:
On Sat, 17 Apr 2021 04:42:47 -0000 (UTC), jon wrote:

On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 15:58:46 +0100, Broadback wrote:

Lots of post on them but what do they cost

How is the government going to recover all the fuel tax, when the the
majority of vehicles are electric.

Tax electricity instead.


Unlikely.Â* Too many people bordering on fuel poverty as it is at the
moment
and no way of differentiating consumption.Â* More likely an NZ style
mileage
tax.

I would be surprised if electric vehicles do not have an inbuilt
ability to detect when they are on charge and what rate they are
charging at. If so, the means to measure their electricity use is
already there and just needs to be output.


But involves a challenging job of data and then tax collection; and
loses the chance to incentivise reduced and off-peak travel by car.

Plus nerdy issues - eg if you take your EV to Italy, and France and
Italy (or the EU as a whole) have similar taxes.

I hope that they go for a straight electricity used tax or a straight
mileage tax. Effectively a direct replacement for fuel duty. I do not
agree with varying the rates at different times, in different areas,
etc. as it simply penalises those that have little choice about where
and when to travel.

The majority of those in work are typically restricted as to when they
can travel and of course where from and to. Their only choice then
becomes mode of transport. Car sharing can work, but many people start
and finish over a range of times, need to stop off at places on the way
there or back or need to be able to rush off at zero notice if they get
a call from school or a dependent relative; buses and trains are very
limiting in their timings, routes, etc.; bikes are no good for those
physically unable to use them, who need to carry things, who need to
arrive fresh and dry or who ned to travel longer distances (perhaps by
motorway).

I have the "choice" of car (20 minutes each way) or train/bus (1-1/2 to
2 hours each way ... allowing for them not connected to the times I need
to arrive and leave, connections between them, etc.) Not using the car
would simply mean having little time to get anything done in the
evening, to spend with my family or to go out. Life would just turn into
a constant round of getting up, going to work, coming home, cooking and
cleaning, going to bed ready to get up early the next morning. That's no
life.

On 17/04/2021 10:28, Robin wrote:
On 17/04/2021 10:06, nightjar wrote:
On 17/04/2021 08:01, Tim+ wrote:
Chris Hogg wrote:
On Sat, 17 Apr 2021 04:42:47 -0000 (UTC), jon wrote:

On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 15:58:46 +0100, Broadback wrote:

Lots of post on them but what do they cost

How is the government going to recover all the fuel tax, when the the
majority of vehicles are electric.

Tax electricity instead.


Unlikely.Â* Too many people bordering on fuel poverty as it is at the
moment
and no way of differentiating consumption.Â* More likely an NZ style
mileage
tax.

I would be surprised if electric vehicles do not have an inbuilt
ability to detect when they are on charge and what rate they are
charging at. If so, the means to measure their electricity use is
already there and just needs to be output.


But involves a challenging job of data and then tax collection;

Not really. It would effectively be a specialised smart meter, fitted to
the car. Payment could be through your electricity bill.

and
loses the chance to incentivise reduced and off-peak travel by car.

Assuming that would even be needed. Congestion charges are already an
established way to deal with traffic congestion, while the whole point
of getting people to move to electric cars is the claimed reduction in
pollution.

Plus nerdy issues - eg if you take your EV to Italy, and France and
Italy (or the EU as a whole) have similar taxes.

That could be overcome by allowing the in-car meter to recognise when it
is being charged from a public charging point. That would allow the tax
to be collected at point of sale, with the meter not registering that
electricity charge as taxable. Anybody travelling abroad is likely to be
using public charging points, unless they have a second home. In that
case, a way of detecting which home the vehicle was at would allow the
right electricity bill to be charged.

Given a possible loss of £28bn a year revenue, HMRC will come up with a
way to overcome any obstacles you can think of.

--
Colin Bignell

Broadback wrote:
Lots of post on them but what do they cost


Going a bit OT any post on electric cars used to attract comment from Harry
who could never resist telling us how his Solar Panels covered the running
cost while boasting he run a Rolls as a pleasure vehicle on his pensioners
WFA .
He doesnt seem to be around anymore, Covid Victim?

GH