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On 17/04/2021 12:59, Tim Streater wrote:
On 17 Apr 2021 at 11:57:24 BST, Robin wrote:

On 17/04/2021 11:53, Andy Bennet wrote:
On 17/04/2021 11:49, Andy Burns wrote:
Andy Bennet wrote:

A new tyre duty based on average milege obtainable with reasonable
use of each tyre.

Could you claim a refund for unrepairable punctures in low mileage tyres?

Of course!


Well I suppose a silver lining may be that theft of cable would fall off
as a certain class of criminal switched to nicking tyres to cut and cash in.


Switching to fibre might help that.


Pray Jesus we have seen the light and will never commit another crime?


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On 18/04/2021 08:20, tim... wrote:


"Steve Walker" wrote in message
...
On 17/04/2021 14:47, tim... wrote:


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 17/04/2021 13:31, Steve Walker wrote:
I have the "choice" of car (20 minutes each way) or train/bus
(1-1/2 to 2 hours each way ... allowing for them not connected to
the times I need to arrive and leave, connections between them,
etc.) Not using the car would simply mean having little time to get
anything done in the evening, to spend with my family or to go out.
Life would just turn into a constant round of getting up, going to
work, coming home, cooking and cleaning, going to bed ready to get
up early the next morning. That's no life.

Before cars, people simply lived on bus or train routes.

before cars

people lived within walking distance of work


Yes and lived **** lives because they could not get decently paid jobs
or spent many hours of the day travelling back and forth.

How is an engineering design company, needing qualified and
experienced engineers and designers, to work if it can only recruit
people that can walk to the office?


by locating themselves in town centres (when PT is a viable alternative
to walking)

not in out of the way trading estates, where driving is your only viable
option


Which simply forces more people to make the city centre commute!

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On 18/04/2021 19:37, nightjar wrote:
On 18/04/2021 13:44, Tim+ wrote:
nightjar wrote:
On 17/04/2021 21:58, Tim+ wrote:
nightjar wrote:
On 17/04/2021 10:28, Robin wrote:
On 17/04/2021 10:06, nightjar wrote:
On 17/04/2021 08:01, Tim+ wrote:
Chris Hogg wrote:
On Sat, 17 Apr 2021 04:42:47 -0000 (UTC), jon
wrote:

On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 15:58:46 +0100, Broadback wrote:

Lots of post on them but what do they cost

How is the government going to recover all the fuel tax, when
the the
majority of vehicles are electric.

Tax electricity instead.


Unlikely.* Too many people bordering on fuel poverty as it is at
the
moment
and no way of differentiating consumption.* More likely an NZ style
mileage
tax.

I would be surprised if electric vehicles do not have an inbuilt
ability to detect when they are on charge and what rate they are
charging at. If so, the means to measure their electricity use is
already there and just needs to be output.


But involves a challenging job of data and then tax collection;

Not really. It would effectively be a specialised smart meter,
fitted to
the car. Payment could be through your electricity bill.

So youd need international agreement of the type of meter or meters
just
fitted to UK vehicles?

As I also pointed out, if the tax were collected at the point of sale
when using public charging points, the meter would only be there to
measure the amount of charge taken at home.

Its a daft idea when taxing by mileage is simple to apply

Really? How is it payment going to be collected? How are you going to
know the mileages unless you accurately track every vehicle in the
country? If you do that, how will that be achieved without people
raising privacy concerns?


In NZ we simply paid a mileage surcharge at the end of our hire period.
This wasnt a hire company charge but a government tax.

I dont think continuous monitoring or metering is needed as long* as a
tamper-proof mileage logging system is used.


You still have the problems of reading it and charging for the use.

I dont think it would be that hard to institute a similar system here.


Which would amount to fitting a different type of smart meter to the car
- one that reads mileage instead of electricity use.



A charge on mileage does not /need/ any new technology or tracking. GPS
can be offered as just one among other options. It's up and running now
in Oregon.

https://www.myorego.org/how-it-works/

And - unlike anything involving smart meters built into cars - road
charging can be (a) applied to cars already sold which will be in use
for years to come and (b) updated without a massive recall/refit.




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Robin wrote:
On 18/04/2021 19:37, nightjar wrote:
On 18/04/2021 13:44, Tim+ wrote:


I dont think it would be that hard to institute a similar system here.


Which would amount to fitting a different type of smart meter to the car
- one that reads mileage instead of electricity use.



A charge on mileage does not /need/ any new technology or tracking. GPS
can be offered as just one among other options. It's up and running now
in Oregon.

https://www.myorego.org/how-it-works/

And - unlike anything involving smart meters built into cars - road
charging can be (a) applied to cars already sold which will be in use
for years to come and (b) updated without a massive recall/refit.


Thanks for that. The last point about the system not needing retrofitting
is an important one I think.

Tim


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On 18/04/2021 20:56, ARW wrote:
On 17/04/2021 11:12, Andy Bennet wrote:
On 17/04/2021 11:05, Tim Streater wrote:
On 17 Apr 2021 at 10:49:43 BST, Andy Bennet wrote:

On 17/04/2021 05:42, jon wrote:
* On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 15:58:46 +0100, Broadback wrote:
* Lots of post on them but what do they cost
* How is the government going to recover all the fuel tax, when the
the
* majority of vehicles are electric.

Tyre tax.

A new tyre duty based on average milege obtainable with reasonable use
of each tyre.

Need to be a bit careful with that. Otherwise it suddenly becomes
profitable
for wide boys to start offering "low-cost" retreads on the sly and
for others
to have an extra incentive to jack your car up.


No better or worse than siphoning fuel, doing a garage fill and run,
or useing red diesel.
Any scheme will be open to illegal fiddling by the lower orders of
society.



And the higher orders never commit any crimes?

Take Jeffery Archer as an example.

Have you read any of the books he wrote? Bring back hanging IMHO.




All scum are lower order by definition, including trump.


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On 19/04/2021 07:50, Tim+ wrote:
Robin wrote:
On 18/04/2021 19:37, nightjar wrote:
On 18/04/2021 13:44, Tim+ wrote:


I dont think it would be that hard to institute a similar system here.

Which would amount to fitting a different type of smart meter to the car
- one that reads mileage instead of electricity use.



A charge on mileage does not /need/ any new technology or tracking. GPS
can be offered as just one among other options. It's up and running now
in Oregon.

https://www.myorego.org/how-it-works/

And - unlike anything involving smart meters built into cars - road
charging can be (a) applied to cars already sold which will be in use
for years to come and (b) updated without a massive recall/refit.


Thanks for that. The last point about the system not needing retrofitting
is an important one I think.


Unless you use ANPR, with all the privacy issues I mentioned, something
would need to be retrofitted.

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On 19/04/2021 10:20, nightjar wrote:
On 19/04/2021 07:50, Tim+ wrote:
Robin wrote:
On 18/04/2021 19:37, nightjar wrote:
On 18/04/2021 13:44, Tim+ wrote:


I dont think it would be that hard to institute a similar system
here.

Which would amount to fitting a different type of smart meter to the
car
- one that reads mileage instead of electricity use.



A charge on mileage does not /need/ any new technology or tracking.* GPS
can be offered as just one among other options.* It's up and running now
in Oregon.

https://www.myorego.org/how-it-works/

And - unlike anything involving smart meters built into cars - road
charging can be (a) applied to cars already sold which will be in use
for years to come and (b) updated without a massive recall/refit.


Thanks for that. The last point about the system not needing retrofitting
is an important one I think.


Unless you use ANPR, with all the privacy issues I mentioned, something
would need to be retrofitted.


That need seems to have escaped Oregon.

And in any event a telematics recorder is rather easier to fit than a
smart meter integrated with the car's charging circuits. Already in
common use by insurance companies, fleet managers et al.

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nightjar wrote:
On 19/04/2021 07:50, Tim+ wrote:
Robin wrote:
On 18/04/2021 19:37, nightjar wrote:
On 18/04/2021 13:44, Tim+ wrote:


I dont think it would be that hard to institute a similar system here.

Which would amount to fitting a different type of smart meter to the car
- one that reads mileage instead of electricity use.



A charge on mileage does not /need/ any new technology or tracking. GPS
can be offered as just one among other options. It's up and running now
in Oregon.

https://www.myorego.org/how-it-works/

And - unlike anything involving smart meters built into cars - road
charging can be (a) applied to cars already sold which will be in use
for years to come and (b) updated without a massive recall/refit.


Thanks for that. The last point about the system not needing retrofitting
is an important one I think.


Unless you use ANPR, with all the privacy issues I mentioned, something
would need to be retrofitted.


I still think youre over-complicating this. Taxation doesnt need
continuous mileage monitoring, it could be paid monthly or even annually
based on milometer readings.

Yes, some people would undoubtably fiddle the system but most wouldnt,
especially if draconian fines were brought in for mileage correction as
they call clocking these days. Random spot checks on mileage would also
help to deter folk.

Tim

Tim

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On 18/04/2021 20:07, %% wrote:




Thats bull**** too when using medically qualified people
to check xrays etc on the other side of the world.


You really utterly clueless. Any place incapable of
employing or training its own local expertise is unlikely
to be able to manage the treatment of whatever is diagnosed.
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On 18/04/2021 20:10, %% wrote:


"Andrew" wrote in message
...
On 17/04/2021 22:17, %% wrote:


"Andrew" wrote in message
...
On 17/04/2021 16:08, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

and with the internet work doesn't need to be further away than a
laptop



real work doesn't involve the internet.

Bull****.


That's what passes for 'work' on the internet.


More bull****. Remote diagnosis etc etc etc is nothing like that.

Same with remote reconfig of complex systems instead of
having to visit in person.


None of which is necessary, just a means of cutting support costs.



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On 17/04/2021 19:32, Andrew wrote:
On 17/04/2021 19:23, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 17/04/2021 19:13, charles wrote:
In article ,
*** Andrew wrote:
On 17/04/2021 16:08, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

and with the internet work doesn't need to be further away than a
laptop



real work doesn't involve the internet.

That entirely depends on what work is involved.

What a **** he is to be sure. My real work involved almost nothing BUT
the internet



Nope. We had an entire effective electronics and IT business before
the internet was invented. Dream on.


I know. I worked in it.

From the office. Every single day.

And for one project did a 300 mile trip every couple of weeks because it
was based out of a different office. There was no better way to
synchronise work than to go there before the internet.

Andy
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"Andrew" wrote in message
...
On 18/04/2021 20:07, %% wrote:




Thats bull**** too when using medically qualified people
to check xrays etc on the other side of the world.


You really utterly clueless.


We'll see...

Any place incapable of employing or training its own local expertise


They arent incapable, they choose to use the cheaper remote
service or find it impossible to get those qualified to check
xrays everywhere that needs to be done.

is unlikely to be able to manage the treatment of whatever is diagnosed.


Even sillier than your previous and thats saying something.

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"Andrew" wrote in message
...
On 18/04/2021 20:10, %% wrote:


"Andrew" wrote in message
...
On 17/04/2021 22:17, %% wrote:


"Andrew" wrote in message
...
On 17/04/2021 16:08, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

and with the internet work doesn't need to be further away than a
laptop



real work doesn't involve the internet.

Bull****.

That's what passes for 'work' on the internet.


More bull****. Remote diagnosis etc etc etc is nothing like that.

Same with remote reconfig of complex systems instead of
having to visit in person.


None of which is necessary,


More utterly mindless silly stuff. We used to have full time
staff at the local TV transmitter and telephone exchange.
Now they reconfigure on faults and can swap out the
failed stuff when that is convenient with far fewer staff.

The mobile bases never had full time staff at each one for some reason.

just a means of cutting support costs.


Its still work, just done differently.



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Default More Heavy Trolling by the Senile Octogenarian Nym-Shifting Ozzie Cretin!

On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 07:59:51 +1000, %%cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

You really utterly clueless.


We'll see...


We'll see YOU sick old swine trolling like there was no tomorrow ...and
hopefully there won't be too many tomorrows left for you!

--
Website (from 2007) dedicated to the 86-year-old trolling senile
cretin from Oz:
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/r...d-faq.2973853/
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Default More Heavy Trolling by the Senile Octogenarian Nym-Shifting Ozzie Cretin!

On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 08:04:58 +1000, %%, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

FLUSH the trolling senile cretin's latest troll**** unread

--
"Who or What is Rod Speed?

Rod Speed is an entirely modern phenomenon. Essentially, Rod Speed
is an insecure and worthless individual who has discovered he can
enhance his own self-esteem in his own eyes by playing "the big, hard
man" on the InterNet."
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/r...d-faq.2973853/


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On 19/04/2021 12:14, Tim+ wrote:
....
I still think youre over-complicating this. Taxation doesnt need
continuous mileage monitoring, it could be paid monthly or even annually
based on milometer readings....


A system that would require a small army of people to read the odometers
and another small army to collect the revenue. Whereas road fuel duty,
is collected automatically at the point of sale.

To go back to where this started, I didn't say that taxing electricity
use in vehicles was something I expected to happen, simply that it would
be wrong to think it couldn't be done. Expert opinion is that road
pricing will replace road fuel duty and that it will most likely involve
GPS units in every vehicle. ANPR is a possibility, but is vulnerable to
number plate cloning. Either way, it will raise serious privacy issues
and still need a reliable way to collect the revenue.

--
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In article ,
nightjar wrote:
On 19/04/2021 12:14, Tim+ wrote:
...
I still think youre over-complicating this. Taxation doesnt need
continuous mileage monitoring, it could be paid monthly or even annually
based on milometer readings....


A system that would require a small army of people to read the odometers
and another small army to collect the revenue. Whereas road fuel duty,
is collected automatically at the point of sale.


No, you could just plug into a local terminal (or even use Bluetooth)

To go back to where this started, I didn't say that taxing electricity
use in vehicles was something I expected to happen, simply that it would
be wrong to think it couldn't be done. Expert opinion is that road
pricing will replace road fuel duty and that it will most likely involve
GPS units in every vehicle. ANPR is a possibility, but is vulnerable to
number plate cloning. Either way, it will raise serious privacy issues
and still need a reliable way to collect the revenue.


--


--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
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"nightjar" wrote in message
...
On 19/04/2021 12:14, Tim+ wrote:
...
I still think youre over-complicating this. Taxation doesnt need
continuous mileage monitoring, it could be paid monthly or even annually
based on milometer readings....


A system that would require a small army of people to read the odometers
and another small army to collect the revenue. Whereas road fuel duty, is
collected automatically at the point of sale.


To go back to where this started, I didn't say that taxing electricity use
in vehicles was something I expected to happen, simply that it would be
wrong to think it couldn't be done. Expert opinion is that road pricing
will replace road fuel duty and that it will most likely involve GPS units
in every vehicle.


Makes a lot more sense to give up on charging by miles run etc.

ANPR is a possibility, but is vulnerable to number plate cloning. Either
way, it will raise serious privacy issues and still need a reliable way to
collect the revenue.



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Default Lonely Obnoxious Cantankerous Auto-contradicting Senile Ozzie Troll Alert!

On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 20:01:47 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH troll****

--
"Who or What is Rod Speed?

Rod Speed is an entirely modern phenomenon. Essentially, Rod Speed
is an insecure and worthless individual who has discovered he can
enhance his own self-esteem in his own eyes by playing "the big, hard
man" on the InterNet."
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/r...d-faq.2973853/
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On Monday, 19 April 2021 at 13:28:36 UTC+1, Andrew wrote:
On 18/04/2021 20:07, %% wrote:




Thats bull**** too when using medically qualified people
to check xrays etc on the other side of the world.

You really utterly clueless. Any place incapable of
employing or training its own local expertise is unlikely
to be able to manage the treatment of whatever is diagnosed.


My partner had an MRI a few years ago. The scan was sent to a chap in Australia for analysis. There were insufficient qualified MRI interpretation experts in the UK so they sent them wherever necessary.

Who knows if the UK could manage treatment? The MRI did not lead to a diagnosis.


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On 20/04/2021 10:24, charles wrote:
In article ,
nightjar wrote:
On 19/04/2021 12:14, Tim+ wrote:
...
I still think youre over-complicating this. Taxation doesnt need
continuous mileage monitoring, it could be paid monthly or even annually
based on milometer readings....


A system that would require a small army of people to read the odometers
and another small army to collect the revenue. Whereas road fuel duty,
is collected automatically at the point of sale.


No, you could just plug into a local terminal (or even use Bluetooth)


Or even just reported manually online, with an annual check during the
MOT. This would require new vehicles to be MOTed from 12 months ... but
considering how many drive with lights out, bald or damaged tyres, worn
brake pads, etc. that could be a good thing.
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On 20/04/2021 10:24, charles wrote:
In article ,
nightjar wrote:
On 19/04/2021 12:14, Tim+ wrote:
...
I still think youre over-complicating this. Taxation doesnt need
continuous mileage monitoring, it could be paid monthly or even annually
based on milometer readings....


A system that would require a small army of people to read the odometers
and another small army to collect the revenue. Whereas road fuel duty,
is collected automatically at the point of sale.


No, you could just plug into a local terminal (or even use Bluetooth)..


The proposal was that this was something that could be done without any
new equipment being retrofitted to the car.


--
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On 20/04/2021 11:18, Steve Walker wrote:
On 20/04/2021 10:24, charles wrote:
In article ,
*** nightjar wrote:
On 19/04/2021 12:14, Tim+ wrote:
...
I still think youre over-complicating this.* Taxation doesnt need
continuous mileage monitoring, it could be paid monthly or even
annually
based on milometer readings....


A system that would require a small army of people to read the odometers
and another small army to collect the revenue. Whereas road fuel duty,
is collected automatically at the point of sale.


No, you could just plug into a local terminal (or even use Bluetooth)


Or even just reported manually online,


Disadvantaging the 20% of households with one adult over the age of 65
without internet access; a group that also has the lowest ownership of
smart phones, at just 53%

with an annual check during the
MOT. This would require new vehicles to be MOTed from 12 months...


Or you could just slap a huge tax bill onto drivers after three years.

--
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nightjar wrote:
On 19/04/2021 12:14, Tim+ wrote:
...
I still think youre over-complicating this. Taxation doesnt need
continuous mileage monitoring, it could be paid monthly or even annually
based on milometer readings....


A system that would require a small army of people to read the odometers


No, you could just submit your mileage yourself. Any under-reporting would
come out in the wash at the first MOT or trade in.

and another small army to collect the revenue. Whereas road fuel duty,
is collected automatically at the point of sale.

To go back to where this started, I didn't say that taxing electricity
use in vehicles was something I expected to happen, simply that it would
be wrong to think it couldn't be done.


I still think it most unlikely. Heck, they cant even get my smart meter at
home to work. Retro-fitting a smart metering system to every EV already on
the road would be decidedly non-trivial compared to a mileage based system.

Expert opinion is that road
pricing will replace road fuel duty and that it will most likely involve
GPS units in every vehicle. ANPR is a possibility, but is vulnerable to
number plate cloning. Either way, it will raise serious privacy issues
and still need a reliable way to collect the revenue.


ANPR cameras are already all over the country monitoring your movements.
What additional privacy issues are you worried about?

Tim

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On 19/04/2021 12:14, Tim+ wrote:
nightjar wrote:
On 19/04/2021 07:50, Tim+ wrote:
Robin wrote:
On 18/04/2021 19:37, nightjar wrote:
On 18/04/2021 13:44, Tim+ wrote:

I dont think it would be that hard to institute a similar system here.

Which would amount to fitting a different type of smart meter to the car
- one that reads mileage instead of electricity use.



A charge on mileage does not /need/ any new technology or tracking. GPS
can be offered as just one among other options. It's up and running now
in Oregon.

https://www.myorego.org/how-it-works/

And - unlike anything involving smart meters built into cars - road
charging can be (a) applied to cars already sold which will be in use
for years to come and (b) updated without a massive recall/refit.

Thanks for that. The last point about the system not needing retrofitting
is an important one I think.


Unless you use ANPR, with all the privacy issues I mentioned, something
would need to be retrofitted.


I still think youre over-complicating this. Taxation doesnt need
continuous mileage monitoring, it could be paid monthly or even annually
based on milometer readings.


yep. after one year MOT, get certificate of mileage. new car tax
includes mileage tax.

Naturally only honest citizens pay,

Yes, some people would undoubtably fiddle the system but most wouldnt,
especially if draconian fines were brought in for mileage correction as
they call clocking these days. Random spot checks on mileage would also
help to deter folk.

Tim

Tim



--
When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men in a society, over
the course of time they create for themselves a legal system that
authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it.

Frédéric Bastiat


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On 19/04/2021 23:04, %% wrote:


"Andrew" wrote in message
...
On 18/04/2021 20:10, %% wrote:


"Andrew" wrote in message
...
On 17/04/2021 22:17, %% wrote:


"Andrew" wrote in message
...
On 17/04/2021 16:08, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

and with the internet work doesn't need to be further away than a
laptop



real work doesn't involve the internet.

Bull****.

That's what passes for 'work' on the internet.

More bull****. Remote diagnosis etc etc etc is nothing like that.

Same with remote reconfig of complex systems instead of
having to visit in person.


None of which is necessary,


More utterly mindless silly stuff. We used to have full time
staff at the local TV transmitter and telephone exchange.
Now they reconfigure on faults and can swap out the
failed stuff when that is convenient with far fewer staff.

The mobile bases never had full time staff at each one for some reason.

just a means of cutting support costs.


Its still work, just done differently.



Exactly. ,

Faced with a huge trip to Aberdeen and an overnight stay we persuaded
the customer to accept 'remote installation' the computer and modem went
up on a on overnight courier, and I asked him to plug it into a DDI
extension.

Once I had given it an IP address on his network, it gaily phoned home
and picked up email and I told him how to connect his pcs to its POP
server and SMTP to UUCP relay.

Before the internet that was - or at least before people were prepared
to pay for it.

was on the phone less than an hour and then we communicated by email.
compared with a day return plane to Aberdeen....


--
When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men in a society, over
the course of time they create for themselves a legal system that
authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it.

Frédéric Bastiat
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On 20/04/2021 11:44, nightjar wrote:
On 20/04/2021 11:18, Steve Walker wrote:
On 20/04/2021 10:24, charles wrote:
In article ,
*** nightjar wrote:
On 19/04/2021 12:14, Tim+ wrote:
...
I still think youre over-complicating this.* Taxation doesnt need
continuous mileage monitoring, it could be paid monthly or even
annually
based on milometer readings....

A system that would require a small army of people to read the
odometers
and another small army to collect the revenue. Whereas road fuel duty,
is collected automatically at the point of sale.

No, you could just plug into a local terminal (or even use Bluetooth)


Or even just reported manually online,


Disadvantaging the 20% of households with one adult over the age of 65
without internet access; a group that also has the lowest ownership of
smart phones, at just 53%


I know many pensioners (I am surrounded by them, as we live in a
slightly odd road, with a mix of housing - our house is semi-detached,
2-storey, while our neighbours on one side and all down the opposite
side of the road have bungalows, plus our relatives, relatives of
friends, etc.). Only a tiny proportion drive, but do not have broadband
or a smartphone. As we move towards electric vehicles and the years
pass, that number will probably dwindle to zero. There is no reason that
an automated phone system could not provide an alternative anyway.

Presumably existing petrol and diesel vehicles will continue with fuel
duty and only the electric ones need pay per mile.

with an annual check during the MOT. This would require new vehicles
to be MOTed from 12 months...


Or you could just slap a huge tax bill onto drivers after three years.


Painful!
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On 20/04/2021 13:40, Tim+ wrote:
....
ANPR cameras are already all over the country monitoring your movements.
What additional privacy issues are you worried about?


Not me; the opponents of a road pricing system. Possibly because road
pricing would need an awful lot more of them.


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nightjar wrote:
On 20/04/2021 13:40, Tim+ wrote:
...
ANPR cameras are already all over the country monitoring your movements.
What additional privacy issues are you worried about?


Not me; the opponents of a road pricing system. Possibly because road
pricing would need an awful lot more of them.


Which is why a simple mileage based system would be so much easier.

Tim

--
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On 20/04/2021 14:58, Steve Walker wrote:
Presumably existing petrol and diesel vehicles will continue with fuel
duty and only the electric ones need pay per mile.


I bet petrol and diesel end up paying both



--
"I guess a rattlesnake ain't risponsible fer bein' a rattlesnake, but ah
puts mah heel on um jess the same if'n I catches him around mah chillun".



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"nightjar" wrote in message
news
On 20/04/2021 13:40, Tim+ wrote:
...
ANPR cameras are already all over the country monitoring your movements.
What additional privacy issues are you worried about?


Not me; the opponents of a road pricing system. Possibly because road
pricing would need an awful lot more of them.


Romania has a visitor car tax payable by everybody (for the pedants, who
enter with a car, obviously)

Required for the use of any road, not just motorways as in many other
jurisdictions

You register for it online so your reg number is stored electronically, and
therefore can by enforced automatically. But I never did work out how it
actually was enforced.

For Westerners, it's a trivial sum of money, so no-one would deliberately
not pay it. It's more a faff that anything else



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In article , %% writes


"Andrew" wrote in message
...
On 17/04/2021 22:17, %% wrote:


"Andrew" wrote in message
...
On 17/04/2021 16:08, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

and with the internet work doesn't need to be further away than a
laptop



real work doesn't involve the internet.

Bull****.


That's what passes for 'work' on the internet.


More bull****. Remote diagnosis etc etc etc is nothing like that.

Same with remote reconfig of complex systems instead of
having to visit in person.

But can you change a fcuking light bulb?
--
bert
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On 21/04/2021 14:59, tim... wrote:


"nightjar" wrote in message
news
On 20/04/2021 13:40, Tim+ wrote:
...
ANPR cameras are already all over the country monitoring your movements.
What additional privacy issues are you worried about?


Not me; the opponents of a road pricing system. Possibly because road
pricing would need an awful lot more of them.


Romania has a visitor car tax payable by everybody (for the pedants, who
enter with a car, obviously)

Required for the use of any road, not just motorways as in many other
jurisdictions

You register for it online so your reg number is stored electronically,
and therefore can by enforced automatically.* But I never did work out
how it actually was enforced.

For Westerners, it's a trivial sum of money, so no-one would
deliberately not pay it.* It's more a faff that anything else




The culprit who shot and killed someone, with a crossbow, who was living
in a remote cottage on Anglesey (after interfering with his TV dish) was
caught because his ?landrover ECU had recorded all its movements.
And I think all smart phones do that too.
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On 20/04/2021 14:58, Steve Walker wrote:

I know many pensioners (I am surrounded by them, as we live in a
slightly odd road,


:-)

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On 22/04/2021 12:07, bert wrote:
In article , %% writes


"Andrew" wrote in message
...
On 17/04/2021 22:17, %% wrote:


"Andrew" wrote in message
...
On 17/04/2021 16:08, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

and with the internet work doesn't need to be further away than a
laptop



real work doesn't involve the internet.

Bull****.

That's what passes for 'work' on the internet.


More bull****. Remote diagnosis etc etc etc is nothing like that.

Same with remote reconfig of complex systems instead of
having to visit in person.

But can you change a fcuking light bulb?

sure, with a robot...


--
When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men in a society, over
the course of time they create for themselves a legal system that
authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it.

Frédéric Bastiat


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"Andrew" wrote in message
...
On 21/04/2021 14:59, tim... wrote:


"nightjar" wrote in message
news
On 20/04/2021 13:40, Tim+ wrote:
...
ANPR cameras are already all over the country monitoring your
movements.
What additional privacy issues are you worried about?

Not me; the opponents of a road pricing system. Possibly because road
pricing would need an awful lot more of them.


Romania has a visitor car tax payable by everybody (for the pedants, who
enter with a car, obviously)

Required for the use of any road, not just motorways as in many other
jurisdictions

You register for it online so your reg number is stored electronically,
and therefore can by enforced automatically. But I never did work out
how it actually was enforced.

For Westerners, it's a trivial sum of money, so no-one would deliberately
not pay it. It's more a faff that anything else




The culprit who shot and killed someone, with a crossbow, who was living
in a remote cottage on Anglesey (after interfering with his TV dish) was
caught because his ?landrover ECU had recorded all its movements.


not exactly something that's going to be examined as you pass through the
customs post on the way out

And I think all smart phones do that too.


I'm safe there then



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In article , Andrew
writes
On 17/04/2021 22:50, Robin wrote:

*tax policy has been the responsibility of HM Treasury since 2005.*
So in principle it falls to them to come up with options to fill the
gap left by fuel duties.* That said, when things go wrong it's never,
ever the Treasury's fault.


There is always that static, immoveable source of lots of juicy revenue,
Britain's stupidly overpriced houses.

There's no revenue from a fixed asset like a house.
--
bert
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In article ,
bert wrote:
In article , Andrew
writes
On 17/04/2021 22:50, Robin wrote:

*tax policy has been the responsibility of HM Treasury since 2005.
So in principle it falls to them to come up with options to fill the
gap left by fuel duties. That said, when things go wrong it's never,
ever the Treasury's fault.


There is always that static, immoveable source of lots of juicy revenue,
Britain's stupidly overpriced houses.

There's no revenue from a fixed asset like a house.


Indeed not. It needs maintenance and you probably pay council tax on it.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
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On 20/04/2021 18:08, Tim+ wrote:
nightjar wrote:
On 20/04/2021 13:40, Tim+ wrote:
...
ANPR cameras are already all over the country monitoring your movements.
What additional privacy issues are you worried about?


Not me; the opponents of a road pricing system. Possibly because road
pricing would need an awful lot more of them.


Which is why a simple mileage based system would be so much easier.


We already have a simple mileage based system and one that, unlike a
flat distance rate, rewards those who use more efficient vehicles. It is
called Road Fuel Duty. All we need to do is extend it to electric
vehicles too.

Having thought on the matter further, I realise that would be much
easier than I first thought. If all public charging points applied the
tax at point of sale, the way Road Fuel Duty is applied, the only
problem would be collecting the tax due when the vehicle is charged at
home. ISTM that could be solved with a very minor modification to the
vehicle - the addition of a short range transmitter that only operates
when the vehicle is connected to an outside supply. A linked receiver
would detect it and notify the house meter that a vehicle was connected.

The house meter should then be able to detect the change in use when the
vehicle is connected and disconnected and hence know what rate it was
charging at. This should work even if the vehicle is connected to 13A
socket, rather than a dedicated charging point. The tax can then be
collected through the electricity company. No need to track anybody and
all revenue collections are completely automatic.

Having said that, a road use charge seems to be the solution the
government is expect to adopt, probably at much greater cost.


--
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On 20/04/2021 14:58, Steve Walker wrote:
On 20/04/2021 11:44, nightjar wrote:

....
Disadvantaging the 20% of households with one adult over the age of 65
without internet access; a group that also has the lowest ownership of
smart phones, at just 53%


I know many pensioners (I am surrounded by them, as we live in a
slightly odd road, with a mix of housing - our house is semi-detached,
2-storey, while our neighbours on one side and all down the opposite
side of the road have bungalows, plus our relatives, relatives of
friends, etc.). Only a tiny proportion drive, but do not have broadband
or a smartphone. ...


That does demonstrate an urban mindset. It is very difficult to live in
rural areas without a car and those are the areas where broadband
service is worst.



--
Colin Bignell
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