I have a lot of these 12v MR16 ceiling mounted spots and a stack of
bulbs to fit them, but the one at the top of the stairwell went and that
is a ladder to reach, so I thought a long life LED might do the job...

....and to my surprise, its actually brighter than the incandescents.
It's sold as a '50W replacement'

Definitely recommended

--
Of what good are dead warriors? €¦ Warriors are those who desire battle
more than peace. Those who seek battle despite peace. Those who thump
their spears on the ground and talk of honor. Those who leap high the
battle dance and dream of glory €¦ The good of dead warriors, Mother, is
that they are dead.
Sheri S Tepper: The Awakeners.

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

I have a lot of these 12v MR16 ceiling mounted spots and a stack of
bulbs to fit them, but the one at the top of the stairwell went and that
is a ladder to reach, so I thought a long life LED might do the job...

...and to my surprise, its actually brighter than the incandescents.
It's sold as a '50W replacement'

Definitely recommended

Any particular brand?

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK
@ChrisJDixon1

Plant amazing Acers.

On Thu, 1 Apr 2021 09:17:28 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:


I have a lot of these 12v MR16 ceiling mounted spots and a stack of
bulbs to fit them, but the one at the top of the stairwell went and that
is a ladder to reach,

I never did 'get' the appeal of these mini spotlights, especially when
you feel how hot they get.

I was helping a guy with WiFi round his 3 story house and the lighting
circuits tripped a few times while I was there.

I think I calculated a good few kW of lighting and the place never
seemed particularly bright (where I wanted to work anyway). Turning on
the kitchen lights with the hall and lounge was a no-no I was told.
;-(

He also complained about having to replace them fairly regularly.

so I thought a long life LED might do the job...

I fitted 3 (GU10s) LEDs in a ceiling mounted luminarie for step-niece
a couple of years ago now and she was happy with the light level and
I've not been told of any failures as yet. These were just an Aldi
offering as well.

...and to my surprise, its actually brighter than the incandescents.
It's sold as a '50W replacement'

Definitely recommended

I think we would need the make / model unless there is only one maker
of MR16 LEDs as that can make a big difference to loads of things.?

Cheers, T i m

On 01/04/2021 10:23, Chris J Dixon wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

I have a lot of these 12v MR16 ceiling mounted spots and a stack of
bulbs to fit them, but the one at the top of the stairwell went and that
is a ladder to reach, so I thought a long life LED might do the job...

...and to my surprise, its actually brighter than the incandescents.
It's sold as a '50W replacement'

Definitely recommended

Any particular brand?
Just some overpriced crap I got in Homebase - screwfix being a tad
further away and not 'walk in' I think

TPC? TCP?

https://www.homebase.co.uk/tcp-led-m.../12813614.html

I've had about a 15% failure rate on them though - the TCP products.
Mainly gone flickery on me.



Chris



--
€œProgress is precisely that which rules and regulations did not foresee,€�

€“ Ludwig von Mises

In article ,
T i m wrote:
I never did 'get' the appeal of these mini spotlights, especially when
you feel how hot they get.

As regards simple illumination, perhaps not ideal. But as a pretty
unobtrusive lamp when not in use, very popular.

--
*Verbs HAS to agree with their subjects *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in
:

In article ,
T i m wrote:
I never did 'get' the appeal of these mini spotlights, especially when
you feel how hot they get.

As regards simple illumination, perhaps not ideal. But as a pretty
unobtrusive lamp when not in use, very popular.


Surely the packaging quotes the "Lumens" and the "Beam Angle".

Flicker is often a problem with the 12v supply and underloading it can make
it worse.

I never did 'get' the appeal of these mini spotlights, especially when
you feel how hot they get.

Can be great to throw light into the extremes of a room.

On Thu, 01 Apr 2021 11:16:11 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
T i m wrote:
I never did 'get' the appeal of these mini spotlights, especially when
you feel how hot they get.

As regards simple illumination, perhaps not ideal.

I've rarely fund them so when going round other peoples places (and
working on IT kit).

But as a pretty
unobtrusive lamp when not in use, very popular.

I guess because I'm a utilitarian I'd never rate 'obtrusiveness' over
ease of installation / function. ;-)

In this lounge we have a single central light (that was a gas light
when I bought the place) that is now in a ceiling fan. We also have a
couple of side / background lights, one on Home Assistant that comes
on after the curtains close.

Because the fan / lamp had quite a small globe, I was restricted re
replacing an incandescent for CFL / LED so had a halogen one in there
for some time.

Moving over to more HA managed stuff, I replaced the BC22 holders in
both the fan / lights for ES27 (as 'smart lights' seem more common in
ES) and designed and 3D printed new translucent shades that gave some
'coverage' of the bare lamp whilst allowing good light dispersal and
though cooling for the LED lamps and not impacting the airflow of the
fan.

Again, the shade was designed 'utility' but a mate, not known to give
praise freely said he really liked the design / solution.

To me they look a bit like the nozzles on a Saturn V's F-1 engine. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On 01/04/2021 11:16, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
T i m wrote:
I never did 'get' the appeal of these mini spotlights, especially when
you feel how hot they get.

As regards simple illumination, perhaps not ideal. But as a pretty
unobtrusive lamp when not in use, very popular.


Often seen on TV as a "interior designer" solution to lighting.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

In article ,
JohnP wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in
:

In article ,
T i m wrote:
I never did 'get' the appeal of these mini spotlights, especially when
you feel how hot they get.

As regards simple illumination, perhaps not ideal. But as a pretty
unobtrusive lamp when not in use, very popular.


Surely the packaging quotes the "Lumens" and the "Beam Angle".

Flicker is often a problem with the 12v supply and underloading it can make
it worse.

Pretty well the same design of light can be mains or 12v. In tungsten
days, the LV was more efficient, and the bulbs lasted longer.

I've still got quite a few 12v tungsten. Never had a problem with
flickering. If changing to 12v LED causes flickering, no big deal to
change the fittings to the mains variety.

--
*Thank you. We're all refreshed and challenged by your unique point of view

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
T i m wrote:
On Thu, 01 Apr 2021 11:16:11 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
T i m wrote:
I never did 'get' the appeal of these mini spotlights, especially when
you feel how hot they get.

As regards simple illumination, perhaps not ideal.

I've rarely fund them so when going round other peoples places (and
working on IT kit).

In a pure living area, you may not want or need excellent working light.
Although I prefer to have the choice.

But as a pretty
unobtrusive lamp when not in use, very popular.

I guess because I'm a utilitarian I'd never rate 'obtrusiveness' over
ease of installation / function. ;-)

Say no more. ;-)

In this lounge we have a single central light (that was a gas light
when I bought the place) that is now in a ceiling fan. We also have a
couple of side / background lights, one on Home Assistant that comes
on after the curtains close.

Because the fan / lamp had quite a small globe, I was restricted re
replacing an incandescent for CFL / LED so had a halogen one in there
for some time.

Moving over to more HA managed stuff, I replaced the BC22 holders in
both the fan / lights for ES27 (as 'smart lights' seem more common in
ES) and designed and 3D printed new translucent shades that gave some
'coverage' of the bare lamp whilst allowing good light dispersal and
though cooling for the LED lamps and not impacting the airflow of the
fan.

Again, the shade was designed 'utility' but a mate, not known to give
praise freely said he really liked the design / solution.

To me they look a bit like the nozzles on a Saturn V's F-1 engine. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

--
*Procrastination is the art of keeping up with yesterday.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
alan_m wrote:
On 01/04/2021 11:16, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
T i m wrote:
I never did 'get' the appeal of these mini spotlights, especially when
you feel how hot they get.

As regards simple illumination, perhaps not ideal. But as a pretty
unobtrusive lamp when not in use, very popular.


Often seen on TV as a "interior designer" solution to lighting.

If all you need with lighting is to avoid tripping over things it's easy
to do. ;-)

--
*Why do we say something is out of whack? What is a whack? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sat, 03 Apr 2021 11:34:59 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

snip

As regards simple illumination, perhaps not ideal.

I've rarely fund them so when going round other peoples places (and
working on IT kit).

In a pure living area, you may not want or need excellent working light.
Although I prefer to have the choice.

Quite.

But as a pretty
unobtrusive lamp when not in use, very popular.

I guess because I'm a utilitarian I'd never rate 'obtrusiveness' over
ease of installation / function. ;-)

Say no more. ;-)

That's why we still(?) have 2 x 6' flouros in the kitchen and whilst
working (on the Home Automation system as well), no plans to change
them. Especially when I think the suggestion is that it's not worth
going over to dedicated LED replacements on a purely financially
(energy saving) basis. [1]

snip

Cheers, T i m

[1] Mate replaced the 4 x 6' flouros for LED tube replacements a while
back because he suffers from migraines under (some?) fluorescent
light.

He has since replaced the entire fittings with dedicated LED
(Toolstation) to try to get more light but whoever ordered them can't
measure and got 4 x 5' instead. ;-(

So now he has less light coverage and bits of ceiling to touch up. ;-(

He has offered me the LED 'tubes' and I said I'd like to have them, to
try in the kitchen or use in the garage (if they are bright enough).

In article ,
T i m wrote:
On Sat, 03 Apr 2021 11:34:59 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

snip

As regards simple illumination, perhaps not ideal.

I've rarely fund them so when going round other peoples places (and
working on IT kit).

In a pure living area, you may not want or need excellent working light.
Although I prefer to have the choice.

Quite.

But as a pretty
unobtrusive lamp when not in use, very popular.

I guess because I'm a utilitarian I'd never rate 'obtrusiveness' over
ease of installation / function. ;-)

Say no more. ;-)

That's why we still(?) have 2 x 6' flouros in the kitchen and whilst
working (on the Home Automation system as well), no plans to change
them. Especially when I think the suggestion is that it's not worth
going over to dedicated LED replacements on a purely financially
(energy saving) basis. [1]

I'm willing to pay extra for the amount and quality of light I want. Which
brings us back to lighting or just illumination.

I've been forced to go LED in places due to the tungsten I preferred being
NLA. Add in the costs of replacing dimmers too, and it will take a long
time to pay back via lower bills. And although they're getting closer, the
light quality from LEDs still doesn't suit me as well as halogen.

snip

Cheers, T i m

[1] Mate replaced the 4 x 6' flouros for LED tube replacements a while
back because he suffers from migraines under (some?) fluorescent
light.

He has since replaced the entire fittings with dedicated LED
(Toolstation) to try to get more light but whoever ordered them can't
measure and got 4 x 5' instead. ;-(

So now he has less light coverage and bits of ceiling to touch up. ;-(

He has offered me the LED 'tubes' and I said I'd like to have them, to
try in the kitchen or use in the garage (if they are bright enough).

I really hate that when they claim to have the same light output when any
fool can see they're lying. But only after you've bought them.

I'd love to see some truly independent tests of LED versus decent
florries. I've yet to see any which give the same quality and intensity.
And think the claims for energy saving - like for like - vastly
exaggerated.

--
*Succeed, in spite of management *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 01/04/2021 11:40, T i m wrote:
I never did 'get' the appeal of these mini spotlights, especially when
you feel how hot they get.
Neither did I.
Especially since I used one of them to load a 12V PSU ,carefully
suspended at the edge of a table to avoid damage, and I found
that it melted a plastic chair 15 cm below. :-)
Murphy's law dictates that:
Modern substitutes ,when mounted in hard to reach places, are
prone to interfere with radios,PLC devices and even infrared remotes
if you have any. :-)

On 02/04/2021 16:26, JohnP wrote:

I never did 'get' the appeal of these mini spotlights, especially when
you feel how hot they get.

Can be great to throw light into the extremes of a room.


I have a spotlight directly above my keyboard.

--
Adam

On 03/04/2021 15:45, bilou wrote:
On 01/04/2021 11:40, T i m wrote:
I never did 'get' the appeal of these mini spotlights, especially when
you feel how hot they get.
Neither did I.
Especially since I used one of them to load a 12V PSU ,carefully
suspended at the edge of a table to avoid damage, and I found
that it melted a plastic chair 15 cm below. :-)


That is funny.


--
Adam

On 03/04/2021 14:34, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

I really hate that when they claim to have the same light output when any
fool can see they're lying. But only after you've bought them.

I'd love to see some truly independent tests of LED versus decent
florries. I've yet to see any which give the same quality and intensity.
And think the claims for energy saving - like for like - vastly
exaggerated.


My outdoor front floodlight has failed. I have just stuck a 50W LED
replacement up until I can get new control gear for the 35W CDM-T.


The 35W was brighter than the 50W and the CRI was much better. It's run
as dusk till dawn and needed a new lamp every couple of years. At £15 a
lamp it seemed a fair trade off.

That outside light is 20 years old and as it has no ferrous components
it has no rust.


--
Adam

On Sat, 3 Apr 2021 16:45:35 +0200, bilou wrote:

On 01/04/2021 11:40, T i m wrote:
I never did 'get' the appeal of these mini spotlights, especially when
you feel how hot they get.

Neither did I.
Especially since I used one of them to load a 12V PSU ,carefully
suspended at the edge of a table to avoid damage, and I found
that it melted a plastic chair 15 cm below. :-)

Ouch! I use banks of car headlamp bulbs wired in series-parallel (cuts
the voltage down across each lamp and so the brightness / heat) to
discharge batteries and really do need to properly mount them on the
ally sheet they are currently resting on. They are all terminated in
single pole, Anderson PowerPole connectors so I can easily mix-n-match
to cater for most battery / pack voltages and discharge loads.

Murphy's law dictates that:
Modern substitutes ,when mounted in hard to reach places, are
prone to interfere with radios,PLC devices and even infrared remotes
if you have any. :-)

I had a BC22 LED lamp fail the other day and I've got as far and
breaking the glass dome off so I can see / get to the LED's themselves
(I can). It was running hot and I was drawn to learn that by
investigating the smell of hot electronics (quickly followed by it
flickering a few times and then cutting out completely).

It has a fairly substantial fluted ally heatsink section between the
bayonet fitting and LED plate so was probably an older design /
expensive / high power one?

Cheers, T i m

On Sat, 03 Apr 2021 14:34:47 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:
snip

That's why we still(?) have 2 x 6' flouros in the kitchen and whilst
working (on the Home Automation system as well), no plans to change
them. Especially when I think the suggestion is that it's not worth
going over to dedicated LED replacements on a purely financially
(energy saving) basis. [1]

I'm willing to pay extra for the amount and quality of light I want.

Yeah, same here in some instances.

Which
brings us back to lighting or just illumination.

Quite. I think most people only need illumination and will / may go
for more specific lighting where required.

I've been forced to go LED in places due to the tungsten I preferred being
NLA. Add in the costs of replacing dimmers too, and it will take a long
time to pay back via lower bills.

Yeah.

And although they're getting closer, the
light quality from LEDs still doesn't suit me as well as halogen.

I agree in many instances, especially where you are looking for a lot
of light (in conventional domestic forms). Having lights you can
easily aim can be handy and I have an LED one (Ikea possibly) on a
flexy-gooseneck clipped on one on the desk here. In most cases it just
creates some background light but is also handy for pointing at things
I need a good / close look at, often with the addition of a magnifier.
;-)

snip

He has offered me the LED 'tubes' and I said I'd like to have them, to
try in the kitchen or use in the garage (if they are bright enough).

I really hate that when they claim to have the same light output when any
fool can see they're lying. But only after you've bought them.

Snap ... although I think we now sorta 'expect' that to be the case
don't we?

I'd love to see some truly independent tests of LED versus decent
florries. I've yet to see any which give the same quality and intensity.

This was why 1) I haven't changed mine in the kitchen yet and 2) was
interested to try these from my mate, not only for the actual light
level but the general illumination. Like, if they only have downward
facing LEDs, how much light do I currently enjoy that has been
reflected off the fitting, (white) ceiling or cupboards?

And think the claims for energy saving - like for like - vastly
exaggerated.

Especially when compared against fluorescent (inc CFL) etc.

I even thought about fitting high frequency gear in the existing
fittings as that might make them start quicker but the electronic
starters seem to have that down to one blink and on. In most cases the
lights are already on by the time I'm a pace into the kitchen (and
that's including the Zigbee PIR (in a 3D printed round case stuck in
the middle of the kitchen ceiling) picking up my movement as I go in
from the hall and the RPi telling the WiFi switch to turn on). ;-)

Cheers, T i m

In article ,
bilou wrote:
On 01/04/2021 11:40, T i m wrote:
I never did 'get' the appeal of these mini spotlights, especially when
you feel how hot they get.
Neither did I.
Especially since I used one of them to load a 12V PSU ,carefully
suspended at the edge of a table to avoid damage, and I found
that it melted a plastic chair 15 cm below. :-)
Murphy's law dictates that:
Modern substitutes ,when mounted in hard to reach places, are
prone to interfere with radios,PLC devices and even infrared remotes
if you have any. :-)

I heard of one, mounted above a record player with plastic cover, that
melted both the cover and record.

--
*Money isn't everything, but it sure keeps the kids in touch.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sat, 03 Apr 2021 18:57:58 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:
snip


I heard of one, mounted above a record player with plastic cover, that
melted both the cover and record.

;-)

We bought one of those little desk lamps with the telescopic arms that
allowed you to adjust it up and down. Daughter placed it (at full
extension) over her small tropical fish tank to illuminate it though
the clear lid.

After a few days use she noted that the plastic base (with the
transformer) had badly melted (nothing to do with the light) so we
took it back.

We told them what it was used for, stating that it was typically on
for a good few hours and they tried to suggest that 'wasn't what it
was designed for'?

I tried some logic ... 'No mention of it's duty cycle in the manual.
It's a desk light that was being used to produce light on a desk' and
even said that we would be happy to pay more for something that wasn't
likely to melt. No solution offered, 'our fault'.

I asked for their name and they asked why ... 'So I can tell Trading
Standards who I was speaking to when I speak to them ...'.

They offered us a full refund and we chose something less likely to
burn the house down (that worked fine). ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On 03/04/2021 16:20, ARW wrote:
On 03/04/2021 14:34, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

I really hate that when they claim to have the same light output when any
fool can see they're lying. But only after you've bought them.

I'd love to see some truly independent tests of LED versus decent
florries. I've yet to see any which give the same quality and intensity.
And think the claims for energy saving - like for like - vastly
exaggerated.


My outdoor front floodlight has failed. I have just stuck a 50W LED
replacement up until I can get new control gear for the 35W CDM-T.


The 35W was brighter than the 50W and the CRI was much better. It's run
as dusk till dawn and needed a new lamp every couple of years. At £15 a
lamp it seemed a fair trade off.

That outside light is 20 years old and as it has no ferrous components
it has no rust.

Won't the LED be far more efficient?

This suggests:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luminous_efficacy
for an LED 100lm/W

Whereas for the 35W CDM-T it will be 79l/W

https://www.lighting.philips.co.uk/p...125_EU/product

I guess the LED efficency will be dependent on the manufacturer, hence
why I tend to go for a name.

On Sunday, April 4, 2021 at 4:16:56 PM UTC+1, Fredxx wrote:
On 03/04/2021 16:20, ARW wrote:
On 03/04/2021 14:34, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

I really hate that when they claim to have the same light output when any
fool can see they're lying. But only after you've bought them.

I'd love to see some truly independent tests of LED versus decent
florries. I've yet to see any which give the same quality and intensity.
And think the claims for energy saving - like for like - vastly
exaggerated.


My outdoor front floodlight has failed. I have just stuck a 50W LED
replacement up until I can get new control gear for the 35W CDM-T.


The 35W was brighter than the 50W and the CRI was much better. It's run
as dusk till dawn and needed a new lamp every couple of years. At £15 a
lamp it seemed a fair trade off.

That outside light is 20 years old and as it has no ferrous components
it has no rust.
Won't the LED be far more efficient?

This suggests:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luminous_efficacy
for an LED 100lm/W

Whereas for the 35W CDM-T it will be 79l/W

https://www.lighting.philips.co.uk/p...125_EU/product

I guess the LED efficency will be dependent on the manufacturer, hence
why I tend to go for a name.
I was ****ed off with the halogen bulbs in my kitchen blowing after about 6 weeks. They were 40w, I swapped them for 14w PAR38 LEDs. The amount of light in my kitchen is brilliant. I would guess somewhere just over 500 lux. I just had a dig through my email, they have been up since October 2016, none have been replaced.
Brighter, cheaper to run and last.
Only downside is I did not look at the dimensions and had to get adaptors for them to screw into the holders.
They are one of the best buys I have ever made.

In article ,
misterroy wrote:
I was ****ed off with the halogen bulbs in my kitchen blowing after
about 6 weeks.

Did you try buying quality ones? ;-)

--
*Even a blind pig stumbles across an acorn now and again *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.