On 18/02/2021 10:55, David wrote:
On Thursday, 18 February 2021 at 10:25:55 UTC, Mike Clarke wrote:
On 17/02/2021 17:35, Jim Jackson wrote:
On 2021-02-17, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
So many people have been hoodwinked into signing for Amazon Prime. In my
experience, they tend to be those that are not fully able to understand
the website placed before them, and deselect options when presented.

But Amazon are cunning. When you go to the checkout the link for "Yes I
want Amazon Prime and free delivery" is a big conspicuous yellow button
and the "No thanks" link is just plain inconspicuous text. So many
people end up opting in to Prime without realizing it.

I think I'm pretty savvy, but (even!) I was hoodwinked into a Prime trial a couple of years ago. I think I clicked on a tiny bit of text that said "Yes, I don't not want free shipping" or some such

Amazon customer service being second-to-none, though, they cancelled it immediately when I rang them up. I still use them a lot, to the extent that I now have chosen to pay for Prime! The free next day delivery on even trivial items is something I actually enjoy. I'm pretty sure I'm actually costing them money...

My wife has had prime for some time, as she orders a lot online
(particularly convenient as she is disabled). I used her account until
recently, for the prime delivery, but shortly before Christmas, I
discovered that they offer Household Prime, where she could add my
account to her prime, so there is no extra charge, but I can order
things (for birthdays and suchlike) without her seeing.

Of course, if you have prime, you can also buy a firestick and get Prime
TV included if you want it.

On Thu, 18 Feb 2021 11:54:29 +0000, jon wrote:

On Thu, 18 Feb 2021 11:20:55 +0000, Bob Eager wrote:

On Thu, 18 Feb 2021 02:55:13 -0800, David wrote:

I think I'm pretty savvy, but (even!) I was hoodwinked into a Prime
trial a couple of years ago. I think I clicked on a tiny bit of text
that said "Yes, I don't not want free shipping" or some such.

I did that in December 2019. I let the 2 week trial run in the end,
while I ordered Christmas stuff!

Amazon customer service being second-to-none, though, they cancelled
it immediately when I rang them up.

I just cancelled it online.

I still use them a lot, to the extent that I now have chosen to pay
for Prime! The free next day delivery on even trivial items is
something I actually enjoy. I'm pretty sure I'm actually costing them
money...

It was costing them too much, hence the charge. But I wasn't interested
in the increased charge for streaming, so I cancelled it anyway.

Younger son has Prime so we piggyback off his.

I use Prime and get very good service.

Oh, the service is good. But the 60%-odd increase in price, when I didn't
need or want streaming, killed it for me.



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"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,

michael adams wrote:

As a private seller your only obigation is to describe the goods
accurately. Which doesn't mean that an unscrupulous buyer might
not claim that the contents of the sealed box were slightly damaged
but still serviceable, and ask for a discount. But that can happen
in any situation.

You might be happy paying a new price from a private buyer on Ebay. Rather
than from an establisged retailer. As I said before, you're odd.

The discussion is about your position as a seller, deperately trying to
recover the 25% extra you've needlessly ended up paying for something;
solely as a result of not reading a sellers listing and your evident
unfamiliarity with Amazon's T&C's.

As for myself I'd be upset paying the "new" price from an established
retailer for anything, even complete sealed in the box with warrenty
and registration cards; never mind paying 25% on top.

But if that sorry day ever came to pass I very much doubt I'd be crying
my eyes out on Usenet about it, as much as you are. I'd just put it behind
me and try to learn from my mistake. Whereas in your case clearly this
money you've lost means an awful lot and won't be easily forgotten.



michael adams

....

In article ,
Robin wrote:
On 18/02/2021 11:07, Theo wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
Are you saying any warranty is transferrable? Most new things have one.

Yes, you're just a reseller of the product like say your family-owned corner
shop would be. They buy things from their supplier and resell them. They
don't become secondhand by doing so. The manufacturer's warranty applies
however you bought the product, as long as it was new when doing so (you can
check the T&C with them).


Warranties are separate from statutory rights and manufacturers can
decide whether or not to make them transferable. Many large
manufacturers don't. Which is not to say they won't honour a claim in
practice, especially if you have the original receipt.

The analogy with a corner shop re-selling is false as they are a buying
as a business, not a consumer.

My thoughts too. In the UK, your 'statutary rights' tend to be from who
you bought it from before the maker of the goods. If they weren't, many
retailers would simply opt out of any responsibility when things go wrong.

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To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
michael adams wrote:
The discussion is about your position as a seller, deperately trying to
recover the 25% extra you've needlessly ended up paying for something;
solely as a result of not reading a sellers listing and your evident
unfamiliarity with Amazon's T&C's.

Says a great deal about Amazon where they need to conceal (or make tricky
to find out) so much.

Glad you love them. I'll not use them again. Which will be their loss -
not mine.

Good to know you approve of a company which treats its empoloyees worse
than cattle - and does everything it can to avoid paying taxes in the
country it sells in.

--
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Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
In article ,
michael adams wrote:
The discussion is about your position as a seller, deperately trying to
recover the 25% extra you've needlessly ended up paying for something;
solely as a result of not reading a sellers listing and your evident
unfamiliarity with Amazon's T&C's.

Says a great deal about Amazon where they need to conceal (or make tricky
to find out) so much.

Glad you love them. I'll not use them again. Which will be their loss -
not mine.

Will it? I don't buy much from Amazon but occasionally they have what
I need at the best price. If you refuse to use Amazon then you will
almost inevitably miss the best price for *something*.

Good to know you approve of a company which treats its empoloyees worse
than cattle - and does everything it can to avoid paying taxes in the
country it sells in.

So why did you buy from them to start with then? :-)

--
Chris Green
·

"michael adams" wrote in message
...

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...

Are you saying any warranty is transferrable? Most new things have one.

Manufacturers warrenty and registration cards are usually contained
in the sealed box.

But are completely irrelevant to what warranty you actually have.

Just so long as you don't open the box and register the product online
before changing your mind again, you should be o.k.

You are even if the box has been opened.

As a private seller your only obigation is to describe the goods
accurately. Which doesn't mean that an unscrupulous buyer might
not claim that the contents of the sealed box were slightly damaged
but still serviceable, and ask for a discount. But that can happen
in any situation.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
michael adams wrote:
The discussion is about your position as a seller, deperately trying to
recover the 25% extra you've needlessly ended up paying for something;
solely as a result of not reading a sellers listing and your evident
unfamiliarity with Amazon's T&C's.

Says a great deal about Amazon where they need to conceal (or make tricky
to find out) so much.

It took me 0.26 seconds on Google to raise the relevant page.

As to concealment you yourself have yet to reveal what time frame was
actually specified in the original listing.


Glad you love them.

They have the lockers too, big orange ones which come in handy.

I'll not use them again. Which will be their loss -
not mine.

Only if you're going to live in a cave and deny yourself the
opportunity of buying a whole range of desirable consumer goods
at the most competetive prices and in the most convenient manner.


Good to know you approve of a company which treats its empoloyees worse
than cattle

Says a typical Guardian reader who's never seen the inside of a factory,
a mill, a coal mine or a warehousue in their lives. Or at least hadn't
until economic necessity finally forced their hand. What and whom do you
think made this country great ? People sat round all day writing
letters to the "Guardian" about how oppressed they all are ?

As to your own industry who is it I wonder who are "treated like cattle" ?

The talent who are made to audition like show ponies in the vain
hope of landing their first job in months if not that year,
or the likes of yourself guarenteed work 52 weeks of the year as
a result of the stranglehold you collectivley have over the industry ?


- and does everything it can to avoid paying taxes in the
country it sells in.

That's down to the govenment of the day.

As it happens the taxation of ecommerce, as with the impact of ecommerce
on the high st generally is a question that will need to be seriously
addressed by governmements wordlwide at some stage. Either before or
after Covid and climate change.

Which along with news of you jumping ship is something which I
can imagine is giving Jeff Bezos plenty of sleeples nights.


michael adams

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
My thoughts too. In the UK, your 'statutary rights' tend to be from who
you bought it from before the maker of the goods. If they weren't, many
retailers would simply opt out of any responsibility when things go wrong.

My point being about the difference between buying from Joe Arkwright and
Joe Arkwright t/a Arkwright's Stores. In the former case Joe can disclaim
responsibility as a personal sale, but Joe is free to voluntarily offer
equivalent terms as the statutory rights (forming part of the contract of
sale). In both cases the means of enforcement for breach of contract (small
claims court) is the same. So there's a limited difference between the two
in practice if you choose to offer those terms.

Theo

On Fri, 19 Feb 2021 02:23:05 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

--
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"That¢s because so much **** and ****e emanates from your gob that there is
nothing left to exit normally, your arsehole has clammed shut through disuse
and the end of prick is only clear because you are such a ******."
Message-ID:

In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
Every company does this, as no person or company is under any legal or
moral obligation to do anything else. In fact, companies are *obliged*
*by* *law* to do the best they can for their shareholders.

Spoken like a true Tory. Only ones who matter are shareholders. No
surprise manufacturing in this country is near non existent.

--
*If you lived in your car, you'd be home by now *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
michael adams wrote:
As to your own industry who is it I wonder who are "treated like cattle" ?

The talent who are made to audition like show ponies in the vain
hope of landing their first job in months if not that year,
or the likes of yourself guarenteed work 52 weeks of the year as
a result of the stranglehold you collectivley have over the industry ?

You're very bitter, Michael. Get turned down for jobs too often? Could it
be your attitude at fault?

--
*Procrastinate now

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
michael adams wrote:
As to your own industry who is it I wonder who are "treated like cattle" ?

The talent who are made to audition like show ponies in the vain
hope of landing their first job in months if not that year,
or the likes of yourself guarenteed work 52 weeks of the year as
a result of the stranglehold you collectivley have over the industry ?

You're very bitter, Michael.

What have I got to be bitter about ? You're the one who's ditched Amazon
as a result of losing a few quid, and can't stop going on about them.
Most people would simply put it down to experience and move on.

But not you, apparently.

Get turned down for jobs too often? Could it be your attitude at fault?

Make your mind up. One minute you set yourself up as a spokesman on behalf
of oppressed Amazon workers, and the next minute you're claiming people
are being denied work because of their "attitude". Presumably meaning
they're not grovelling sufficiently.


michael adams


....

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Theo wrote:
Yes, you're just a reseller of the product like say your family-owned
corner shop would be. They buy things from their supplier and resell
them. They don't become secondhand by doing so. The manufacturer's
warranty applies however you bought the product, as long as it was new
when doing so (you can check the T&C with them).

The fact remains that if I sell it on Ebay, and the buyer
claims any problems at all, I'll be liable in the first place.

BULL****.

Not the maker. I'd also ask you if you've ever
used the manufacturer for any warranty claims on
anything, and not who you bought it from first.

Yep, done that successfully lots of times.

BTW, US warrenties are often very
different from the norm in the UK.

Irrelevant to the fact that the manufacturer stands buy them.

"Chris Green" wrote in message
...
David wrote:
On Thursday, 18 February 2021 at 10:25:55 UTC, Mike Clarke wrote:
On 17/02/2021 17:35, Jim Jackson wrote:
On 2021-02-17, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
So many people have been hoodwinked into signing for Amazon Prime.
In my
experience, they tend to be those that are not fully able to
understand
the website placed before them, and deselect options when presented.

But Amazon are cunning. When you go to the checkout the link for "Yes I
want Amazon Prime and free delivery" is a big conspicuous yellow button
and the "No thanks" link is just plain inconspicuous text. So many
people end up opting in to Prime without realizing it.

I think I'm pretty savvy, but (even!) I was hoodwinked into a Prime trial
a couple of years ago. I think I clicked on a tiny bit of text that said
"Yes, I don't not want free shipping" or some such

Amazon customer service being second-to-none, though, they cancelled it
immediately when I rang them up. I still use them a lot, to the extent
that I now have chosen to pay for Prime! The free next day delivery on
even trivial items is something I actually enjoy. I'm pretty sure I'm
actually
costing them money...

When I get a free Prime offer I use it for
the free period and then cancel it.

And you can keep doing that repeatedly.

There's even an Amazon link to send you a
reminder E-mail three days before the free
trial expires so one doesn't forget to cancel.

I just put an item the reminder system I use for everything.

On Fri, 19 Feb 2021 08:58:42 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

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MID:

"Tim Streater" wrote in message
...
On 18 Feb 2021 at 14:53:12 GMT, "Dave Plowman News)"

wrote:

In article ,
michael adams wrote:
The discussion is about your position as a seller, deperately trying to
recover the 25% extra you've needlessly ended up paying for something;
solely as a result of not reading a sellers listing and your evident
unfamiliarity with Amazon's T&C's.

Says a great deal about Amazon where they need to conceal (or make tricky
to find out) so much.

Glad you love them. I'll not use them again. Which will be their loss -
not mine.

Good to know you approve of a company which treats its empoloyees worse
than cattle - and does everything it can to avoid paying taxes in the
country it sells in.

Every company does this, as no person or company is under any legal or
moral
obligation to do anything else. In fact, companies are *obliged* *by*
*law* to
do the best they can for their shareholders.

Bull**** they are with how they treat their employees.

Everyone *avoids* taxes, when they can.

More bull****, Buffet doesnt.

In article ,
michael adams wrote:
What have I got to be bitter about ? You're the one who's ditched Amazon
as a result of losing a few quid, and can't stop going on about them.
Most people would simply put it down to experience and move on.

But not you, apparently.

Have you counted your posts on this thread? As the originator of it I
might be expected to reply to any comments. So what is your excuse for
going on and on and on about it?


Get turned down for jobs too often? Could it be your attitude at fault?

Make your mind up. One minute you set yourself up as a spokesman on
behalf of oppressed Amazon workers, and the next minute you're claiming
people are being denied work because of their "attitude". Presumably
meaning they're not grovelling sufficiently.

Says it all really. Your definition of a good worker. One who grovels
sufficienly.

--
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Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
michael adams wrote:
What have I got to be bitter about ? You're the one who's ditched Amazon
as a result of losing a few quid, and can't stop going on about them.
Most people would simply put it down to experience and move on.

But not you, apparently.

Have you counted your posts on this thread? As the originator of it I
might be expected to reply to any comments. So what is your excuse for
going on and on and on about it?

Because of all the unanswereed questions it raises. Why else ?

First up, your statement in your first post

"That is the last time I'll use Amazon for anything."

Do you still stand by that ?

Now admittedly this is the sort of thing we all say when we're
angry or upset about something. Even vowing never to speak
to certain people, colleages friends or relatives ever again.
But then the truth dawns that carrying on like that we'd end
up living like a hermit - although admittedly these days there
still is Usenet, I suppose.

More especially when in this case it was all your own fault to
start with. But not only that. You found out about this 20%
return fee - 8 weeks ago ! So why didn't you post about it
then as nothing has changed in the meantime?

So that having had 8 weeks to cool down it seems that you're
still detertmined to cut off your nose to spite your face, by
ditching Amazon entirely.

It just doesn't make sense does it ?

Same as reselling it on eBay. In the past you've explained
you've sold stuff on eBay, so selling this would be no different.
Except all of a sudden you're finding problems you've never
had before. Whether stuff you sell on eBay is new, as here
or secondhand as things you've sold before presumably makes no
real difference. Its all supposed to work and meet the item
description unless specified otherwise. So what's the problem
all of a sudden ?

Oh sorry I forgot, its "slow moving". So that while you have no
qualms about lumbering the seller - who probably didn't have it
in stock in the first place but ordered it from China especially
with a "slow moving item" you do quibble about having to pay him
20% in compensation for tying up capital on something that is
going to be sitting on a shelf gathering dust.

So much for the moral high ground !


Get turned down for jobs too often? Could it be your attitude at fault?

Make your mind up. One minute you set yourself up as a spokesman on
behalf of oppressed Amazon workers, and the next minute you're claiming
people are being denied work because of their "attitude". Presumably
meaning they're not grovelling sufficiently.

Says it all really. Your definition of a good worker. One who grovels
sufficienly.

No that's "your" definition. " Could it be your attitude at fault? "

Whereas in a closed shop, as we all know, things are rather different.


michael adams

....

On Fri, 19 Feb 2021 11:15:35 +1100, Fred, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread


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MID:

In article ,
michael adams wrote:
More especially when in this case it was all your own fault to
start with. But not only that. You found out about this 20%
return fee - 8 weeks ago ! So why didn't you post about it
then as nothing has changed in the meantime?

Making things up again? I only discovered what it was going to cost to
return it when attempting to do so. After it had arrived. That was the
final blow - after being told I couldn't cancel the order even within an
hour of placing it.

Both those things to me are very unsatifactory. You, being obviously a
cheapskate, are willing to put up with both to get the maximum number of
pennies off anything you buy.

I'm not that poor, so prefer to buy from someone with the T&C I've come to
expect.

--
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Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
michael adams wrote:
More especially when in this case it was all your own fault to
start with. But not only that. You found out about this 20%
return fee - 8 weeks ago ! So why didn't you post about it
then as nothing has changed in the meantime?

Making things up again? I only discovered what it was going to cost to
return it when attempting to do so. After it had arrived. That was the
final blow - after being told I couldn't cancel the order even within an
hour of placing it.

Both those things to me are very unsatifactory. You, being obviously a
cheapskate, are willing to put up with both to get the maximum number of
pennies off anything you buy.

You're the one complaining about having to pay the 20% re-stocking fee,
not me ! Which in the circumstances, I find quite reasonable. Given
as you yourself admit, that the item is "slow moving".

I would have just paid up myself, and put it down to experience.

Rathet than chucking all my toys out of the pram as you've done,
vowing publically to never use Amazon again.

From the way you're talking its as if you're going to delibrately
pay more for stuff from now on, just to spite Jeff Bezos.

Well good luck with that one, anyway.


michael adams

....













I'm not that poor, so prefer to buy from someone with the T&C I've come to
expect.

--
*I didn't fight my way to the top of the food chain to be a vegetarian.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
michael adams wrote:
You're the one complaining about having to pay the 20% re-stocking fee,
not me ! Which in the circumstances, I find quite reasonable.

And you'd expect to pay that when taking anything back to anywhere?

Good for you. There's one born every minute.

--
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Dave Plowman London SW
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