I note that a lot of companies no longer publish email addresses or phone numbers on their sites. Their 'Help' section is merely a series of self posed questions and answers. No chance of actually asking a question. Phone number are just to an automated service with more self posed questions and answers. Chat line is an option on some sites but chatting to someone in India is not going to elicit an answer to a serious question. That's me avoiding Samsung, Vodafone, Specsavers and others I couldn't be arsed listing . Feel free to add your own favourites

On 12/02/2021 12:53, fred wrote:
I note that a lot of companies no longer publish email addresses or phone numbers on their sites. Their 'Help' section is merely a series of self posed questions and answers. No chance of actually asking a question. Phone number are just to an automated service with more self posed questions and answers. Chat line is an option on some sites but chatting to someone in India is not going to elicit an answer to a serious question. That's me avoiding Samsung, Vodafone, Specsavers and others I couldn't be arsed listing . Feel free to add your own favourites

I would add NS&I who provide an email address but never answer. See my
reply in the thread "Missing e-mails".

--
Max Demian

On 12/02/2021 12:53, fred wrote:
I note that a lot of companies no longer publish email addresses or phone numbers on their sites.
Their 'Help' section is merely a series of self posed questions and answers. No chance of actually
asking a question. Phone number are just to an automated service with more self posed questions and
answers. Chat line is an option on some sites but chatting to someone in India is not going to
elicit an answer to a serious question.

The last time I tried to use a chat session for help, they asked a
question that required quite a detailed reply, with times, dates,
quotes, etc. - and then dropped the chat session because I did not
manage to type a full (lengthy) answer to their question (including
having to look up some of that information) within 30 seconds!

Steve Walker wrote in
:

The last time I tried to use a chat session for help, they asked a
question that required quite a detailed reply, with times, dates,
quotes, etc. - and then dropped the chat session because I did not
manage to type a full (lengthy) answer to their question (including
having to look up some of that information) within 30 seconds!

Can I guess the next bit?

The next time you tried with a pre prepared script, the chat buffer spat it
out as too long?

I've taken the habit of having pre prepared script sections covering
predicted chat branches ready to copy and paste into the chat box, very
effective.

On 12/02/2021 13:51, Peter Burke wrote:
Steve Walker wrote in
:

The last time I tried to use a chat session for help, they asked a
question that required quite a detailed reply, with times, dates,
quotes, etc. - and then dropped the chat session because I did not
manage to type a full (lengthy) answer to their question (including
having to look up some of that information) within 30 seconds!

Can I guess the next bit?

The next time you tried with a pre prepared script, the chat buffer spat it
out as too long?

I've had that one, but not with the same company.

I've taken the habit of having pre prepared script sections covering
predicted chat branches ready to copy and paste into the chat box, very
effective.

I've done that, but it's the question you weren't expecting that catches
you out.

Peter Burke wrote:
Steve Walker wrote in
:

The last time I tried to use a chat session for help, they asked a
question that required quite a detailed reply, with times, dates,
quotes, etc. - and then dropped the chat session because I did not
manage to type a full (lengthy) answer to their question (including
having to look up some of that information) within 30 seconds!

Can I guess the next bit?

The next time you tried with a pre prepared script, the chat buffer spat it
out as too long?

I've taken the habit of having pre prepared script sections covering
predicted chat branches ready to copy and paste into the chat box, very
effective.

Isn't a "pre prepared script" just a "prepared script"?

--
Chris Green
·

In article ,
fred wrote:
I note that a lot of companies no longer publish email addresses or
phone numbers on their sites. Their 'Help' section is merely a series of
self posed questions and answers. No chance of actually asking a
question. Phone number are just to an automated service with more self
posed questions and answers. Chat line is an option on some sites but
chatting to someone in India is not going to elicit an answer to a
serious question. That's me avoiding Samsung, Vodafone, Specsavers and
others I couldn't be arsed listing . Feel free to add your own favourites

And the FAQ never includes your one. It's likely a sign of the times.
Seeking help before trying the obvious things.

--
*7up is good for you, signed snow white*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Friday, 12 February 2021 at 12:53:31 UTC, fred wrote:
Chat line is an option on some sites but chatting to someone in India is not going to elicit an answer to a serious question. That's me avoiding Samsung, Vodafone, Specsavers and others I couldn't be arsed listing . Feel free to add your own favourites

I'm no fan of Vodafone either, but I was recently very surprised at how well their "Chat" worked on their website. I complained to them that my broadband was cutting out about once a day. One of the things they had me do was to take the faceplate off the BT socket and plug the router splitter directly into the internal master socket instead of the faceplate.

This is the socket into which the router is plugged... I queried the request - surely that would result in the temporary disconnection of my broadband, and the disconnection of the "Chat"? "No, it should be OK" came the reply. So I did as I was told, and they were correct! After the broadband connection had re-established itself, my chat carried on as if nothing had happened!

I was impressed, anyway. And, actually, the broadband hasn't disconnected in the month or so since.

On 12/02/2021 13:25, Steve Walker wrote:
On 12/02/2021 12:53, fred wrote:
I note that a lot of companies no longer publish email addresses or
phone numbers on their sites.
Their 'Help' section is merely a series of self posed questions and
answers. No chance of actually
asking a question. Phone number are just to an automated service with
more self posed questions and
answers. Chat line is an option on some sites but chatting to someone
in India is not going to
elicit an answer to a serious question.

The last time I tried to use a chat session for help, they asked a
question that required quite a detailed reply, with times, dates,
quotes, etc. - and then dropped the chat session because I did not
manage to type a full (lengthy) answer to their question (including
having to look up some of that information) within 30 seconds!

You are assuming that there is a person at the other end of the "chat"
facility. The computer is not expecting a detailed reply!

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 12/02/2021 15:33, David wrote:
On Friday, 12 February 2021 at 12:53:31 UTC, fred wrote:
Chat line is an option on some sites but chatting to someone in India is not going to elicit an answer to a serious question. That's me avoiding Samsung, Vodafone, Specsavers and others I couldn't be arsed listing . Feel free to add your own favourites

I'm no fan of Vodafone either, but I was recently very surprised at how well their "Chat" worked on their website. I complained to them that my broadband was cutting out about once a day. One of the things they had me do was to take the faceplate off the BT socket and plug the router splitter directly into the internal master socket instead of the faceplate.

This is the socket into which the router is plugged... I queried the request - surely that would result in the temporary disconnection of my broadband, and the disconnection of the "Chat"? "No, it should be OK" came the reply. So I did as I was told, and they were correct! After the broadband connection had re-established itself, my chat carried on as if nothing had happened!

I was impressed, anyway. And, actually, the broadband hasn't disconnected in the month or so since.

I've generally had very reasonable experience with "text chat" compared
to phone helplines. My impression is that they often have a better
quality of support. Also, it seems easier to convey one's own technical
level quickly. I find it psychologically less irritating to be waiting
for a response in a box on the screen compared to listening to Four
Seasons on a phone line.

On Friday, 12 February 2021 at 20:43:47 UTC, newshound wrote:

I've generally had very reasonable experience with "text chat" compared
to phone helplines. My impression is that they often have a better
quality of support. Also, it seems easier to convey one's own technical
level quickly. I find it psychologically less irritating to be waiting
for a response in a box on the screen compared to listening to Four
Seasons on a phone line.

Yes, I've found it better too and always choose it as an option. Handy if they will email the transcript too (although I CTRL-A and copy-and-paste if not). I wondered if it requires a person to be able to type reasonably well and so that alone might well rule out those that are only good enough for chatting on the phone. I also prefer it as I too can carrying working on my computer whilst they're fannying around at their end. I was on a support not long ago (to Google I think?) and it said not to feel under pressure to type quickly - I could take up to *24 hours* to respond and my chat session would remain open. I can only assume someone else would've stepped in at the other end, or at least I hope so!

Whilst I haven't had much experience myself, I believe support via social media to be staffed by people empowered to do a lot more than those via other channels. I suppose they're operating out in the open; more on the front line and so perhaps require greater powers to help protect the brand.

On 12/02/2021 17:04, alan_m wrote:
On 12/02/2021 13:25, Steve Walker wrote:
On 12/02/2021 12:53, fred wrote:
I note that a lot of companies no longer publish email addresses or
phone numbers on their sites.
Their 'Help' section is merely a series of self posed questions and
answers. No chance of actually
asking a question. Phone number are just to an automated service with
more self posed questions and
answers. Chat line is an option on some sites but chatting to someone
in India is not going to
elicit an answer to a serious question.

The last time I tried to use a chat session for help, they asked a
question that required quite a detailed reply, with times, dates,
quotes, etc. - and then dropped the chat session because I did not
manage to type a full (lengthy) answer to their question (including
having to look up some of that information) within 30 seconds!

You are assuming that there is a person at the other end of the "chat"
facility. The computer is not expecting a detailed reply!

They asked for details!

On 12/02/2021 14:46, Chris Green wrote:

Isn't a "pre prepared script" just a "prepared script"?


It reminds me of 'pre-ordered'.

Bill

Mathew Newton wrote
newshound wrote

I've generally had very reasonable experience with "text chat"
compared to phone helplines. My impression is that they often
have a better quality of support. Also, it seems easier to convey
one's own technical level quickly. I find it psychologically less
irritating to be waiting for a response in a box on the screen
compared to listening to Four Seasons on a phone line.

Yes, I've found it better too

I dont, because its so much slower than talking and I am a fast touch
typist.

and always choose it as an option.

I dont. In fact the cheapest electricity supplier for me only
has chat, no call center at all and I have currently chosen
not to use them for that reason, and it allegedly would
save me about $190 a year out of $1370 to use them.

I have had to call the current supplier about 10 times
in the last month due to quirks in their billing system
but thats because my previous supplier sold me to them.

Handy if they will email the transcript too

Yeah, that is certainly useful.

(although I CTRL-A and copy-and-paste if not). I wondered
if it requires a person to be able to type reasonably well

It certainly would for a decent speed.

and so that alone might well rule out those that
are only good enough for chatting on the phone.

I also prefer it as I too can carrying working on my
computer whilst they're fannying around at their end.

You can do that with a phone call too, tho apparently
people can hear me typing when I do that.

I was on a support not long ago (to Google I think?)
and it said not to feel under pressure to type quickly
- I could take up to *24 hours* to respond and my
chat session would remain open.

Weird, never struck that.

I can only assume someone else would've stepped
in at the other end, or at least I hope so!

Whilst I haven't had much experience myself,
I believe support via social media to be staffed
by people empowered to do a lot more than
those via other channels. I suppose they're
operating out in the open; more on the front
line and so perhaps require greater powers
to help protect the brand.

Well almost everyone I call. I only usually get a human if they have a
disability help section and even then you need to key a huge number of
options before you arrive at a human, and even more likely that the blind
aspect has not been trained for and they don't know where to go. Notable
exception recently was John Lewis, who seem to have their help centre in the
west country, so as long as English accents are OK then no problem.
Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"fred" wrote in message
...
I note that a lot of companies no longer publish email addresses or phone
numbers on their sites. Their 'Help' section is merely a series of self
posed questions and answers. No chance of actually asking a question. Phone
number are just to an automated service with more self posed questions and
answers. Chat line is an option on some sites but chatting to someone in
India is not going to elicit an answer to a serious question. That's me
avoiding Samsung, Vodafone, Specsavers and others I couldn't be arsed
listing . Feel free to add your own favourites

Vodaphone have got UK humans, but you do need to be creative on the press
this for that choices sometimes.
I've also had reasonable results on Amazon, though where the person is is
unknown. Judging by the lag, its on the moon!


Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Max Demian" wrote in message
...
On 12/02/2021 12:53, fred wrote:
I note that a lot of companies no longer publish email addresses or phone
numbers on their sites. Their 'Help' section is merely a series of self
posed questions and answers. No chance of actually asking a question.
Phone number are just to an automated service with more self posed
questions and answers. Chat line is an option on some sites but chatting
to someone in India is not going to elicit an answer to a serious
question. That's me avoiding Samsung, Vodafone, Specsavers and others I
couldn't be arsed listing . Feel free to add your own favourites

I would add NS&I who provide an email address but never answer. See my
reply in the thread "Missing e-mails".

--
Max Demian

That sounds like a chat bot. A lot of those about and only those who supply
the info then get to a real person.
Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Steve Walker" wrote in message
...
On 12/02/2021 12:53, fred wrote:
I note that a lot of companies no longer publish email addresses or phone
numbers on their sites.
Their 'Help' section is merely a series of self posed questions and
answers. No chance of actually
asking a question. Phone number are just to an automated service with
more self posed questions and
answers. Chat line is an option on some sites but chatting to someone in
India is not going to
elicit an answer to a serious question.

The last time I tried to use a chat session for help, they asked a
question that required quite a detailed reply, with times, dates, quotes,
etc. - and then dropped the chat session because I did not manage to type
a full (lengthy) answer to their question (including having to look up
some of that information) within 30 seconds!

On Sat, 13 Feb 2021 12:34:13 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest senile crap

--
"Who or What is Rod Speed?

Rod Speed is an entirely modern phenomenon. Essentially, Rod Speed
is an insecure and worthless individual who has discovered he can
enhance his own self-esteem in his own eyes by playing "the big, hard
man" on the InterNet."
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/r...d-faq.2973853/

In article ,
fred wrote:

I note that a lot of companies no longer publish email addresses or phone
numbers on their sites. Their 'Help' section is merely a series of self posed
questions and answers. No chance of actually asking a question. Phone number
are just to an automated service with more self posed questions and answers.
Chat line is an option on some sites but chatting to someone in India is not
going to elicit an answer to a serious question. That's me avoiding Samsung,
Vodafone, Specsavers and others I couldn't be arsed listing . Feel free to
add your own favourites

This started years ago! The reason, I presume, is that email:

- takes longer to read;
- take longer to reply to;
- relies upon literate operators, who won't make typos, etc.;
- invites dialogues with individuals;
- makes dialogues with individuals almost inevitable, if the customer
does not express his/her problem properly.

Phone support only, or chat, allows the operator to conduct a swift, and
often effective, dialogue [with the average customer], very quickly
isolating what is _actually_ wrong.

Having said all that: I agree that it's a PITA.

John

On 13/02/2021 01:22, williamwright wrote:
On 12/02/2021 14:46, Chris Green wrote:

Isn't a "pre prepared script" just a "prepared script"?


It reminds me of 'pre-ordered'.

I can accept pre-ordered.

One of my hobbies is model railways. I can order something and have it
delivered, even if I have to wait a short while for it to come back into
stock, but some items have unknown delivery dates that may be 6 months
or more away and may be pushed back and back (delays of a year or more
are not unknown). They may even be cancelled as not enough interest has
been shown to justify continuing with the design work required to
continue or just not enough to justify another production batch and so
they will never be delivered. Pre-ordered fits that sort of item - as if
it was an order, you'd expect it to be delivered at some point.

williamwright wrote:
On 12/02/2021 14:46, Chris Green wrote:

Isn't a "pre prepared script" just a "prepared script"?


It reminds me of 'pre-ordered'.

Yes, Bill, we think alike on some things! :-)

--
Chris Green
·

Steve Walker wrote:
On 13/02/2021 01:22, williamwright wrote:
On 12/02/2021 14:46, Chris Green wrote:

Isn't a "pre prepared script" just a "prepared script"?


It reminds me of 'pre-ordered'.

I can accept pre-ordered.

One of my hobbies is model railways. I can order something and have it
delivered, even if I have to wait a short while for it to come back into
stock, but some items have unknown delivery dates that may be 6 months
or more away and may be pushed back and back (delays of a year or more
are not unknown). They may even be cancelled as not enough interest has
been shown to justify continuing with the design work required to
continue or just not enough to justify another production batch and so
they will never be delivered. Pre-ordered fits that sort of item - as if
it was an order, you'd expect it to be delivered at some point.

I still don't understand the difference between 'pre order' and
'order', when you order something it will take some time to get to
you. Thst time may be sort and predictable or long and unpredictable
but you're still ordering it.

Pre-order (if there is such a word) says to me something you do
*before* ordering, e.g. ask for a quote. It might be mandatory in
some situations (i.e. government departments) to go through a
'pre-order' process to select a supplier and decide who to order from.

--
Chris Green
·

Mathew Newton wrote:
Yes, I've found it better too and always choose it as an option. Handy if
they will email the transcript too (although I CTRL-A and copy-and-paste
if not). I wondered if it requires a person to be able to type reasonably
well and so that alone might well rule out those that are only good enough
for chatting on the phone. I also prefer it as I too can carrying working
on my computer whilst they're fannying around at their end. I was on a
support not long ago (to Google I think?) and it said not to feel under
pressure to type quickly - I could take up to *24 hours* to respond and my
chat session would remain open. I can only assume someone else would've
stepped in at the other end, or at least I hope so!

Quite often agents on live chat are dealing with several customers at once.
Sometimes you have to remind them of what was said 5 or 10 minutes ago,
because they can't keep enough context in their head at once.
(they could read the scrollback, but don't)

It is less annoying to other people who are in the same room though, as they
don't have to listen to your half of the conversation.

Theo

On 13/02/2021 11:33, Chris Green wrote:
Steve Walker wrote:
On 13/02/2021 01:22, williamwright wrote:
On 12/02/2021 14:46, Chris Green wrote:

Isn't a "pre prepared script" just a "prepared script"?


It reminds me of 'pre-ordered'.

I can accept pre-ordered.

One of my hobbies is model railways. I can order something and have it
delivered, even if I have to wait a short while for it to come back into
stock, but some items have unknown delivery dates that may be 6 months
or more away and may be pushed back and back (delays of a year or more
are not unknown). They may even be cancelled as not enough interest has
been shown to justify continuing with the design work required to
continue or just not enough to justify another production batch and so
they will never be delivered. Pre-ordered fits that sort of item - as if
it was an order, you'd expect it to be delivered at some point.

I still don't understand the difference between 'pre order' and
'order', when you order something it will take some time to get to
you. Thst time may be sort and predictable or long and unpredictable
but you're still ordering it.

Pre-order (if there is such a word) says to me something you do
*before* ordering, e.g. ask for a quote. It might be mandatory in
some situations (i.e. government departments) to go through a
'pre-order' process to select a supplier and decide who to order from.

I'd say that when you order, you have a defined delivery date, usually
pay in full and can claim payment back if it is not delivered within 28
days of that date.

A pre-order is far more vague on delivery date, often only requires a
deposit (and in some cases, not even that), does not have any sort of
deadline, and often can be cancelled at any point without penalty. Once
manufacturing is given the go ahead, it firms up into an order.

I know that is not a real definition, but it does have some logic as an
easy term to distinguish between different types of order - just as we
distinguish between schools and pre-schools, when both still do teach.

On 12/02/2021 20:43, newshound wrote:
On 12/02/2021 15:33, David wrote:
On Friday, 12 February 2021 at 12:53:31 UTC, fred wrote:
Chat line is an option on some sites but chatting to someone in India
is not going to elicit an answer to a serious question. That's me
avoiding Samsung, Vodafone, Specsavers and others I couldn't be arsed
listing . Feel free to add your own favourites

I'm no fan of Vodafone either, but I was recently very surprised at
how well their "Chat" worked on their website.Â* I complained to them
that my broadband was cutting out about once a day.Â* One of the things
they had me do was to take the faceplate off the BT socket and plug
the router splitter directly into the internal master socket instead
of the faceplate.

This is the socket into which the router is plugged...Â* I queried the
request - surely that would result in the temporary disconnection of
my broadband, and the disconnection of the "Chat"?Â* "No, it should be
OK" came the reply.Â* So I did as I was told, and they were correct!
After the broadband connection had re-established itself, my chat
carried on as if nothing had happened!

I was impressed, anyway.Â* And, actually, the broadband hasn't
disconnected in the month or so since.

I've generally had very reasonable experience with "text chat" compared
to phone helplines. My impression is that they often have a better
quality of support. Also, it seems easier to convey one's own technical
level quickly. I find it psychologically less irritating to be waiting
for a response in a box on the screen compared to listening to Four
Seasons on a phone line.

Yeah I have had a few reasonable experiences with it... sometimes they
follow up the chat with a email log that you can then reply to can carry
on that way.

Best recent result was with nVidea, which they handled very well even
though arguably the problem was not really theirs (i.e. it was relating
to a graphics card with one of their chips on it, but it was not an
nVidea branded card).

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Steve Walker wrote:
I'd say that when you order, you have a defined delivery date, usually
pay in full and can claim payment back if it is not delivered within 28
days of that date.

A pre-order is far more vague on delivery date, often only requires a
deposit (and in some cases, not even that), does not have any sort of
deadline, and often can be cancelled at any point without penalty. Once
manufacturing is given the go ahead, it firms up into an order.

Typically for an order there is stock allocated to you - they have N units
in the warehouse so they accept N orders.

A preorder just means you're getting in the queue for stock - they might not
know how many are coming in next week (because the factory hasn't made them,
the distributor hasn't delivered them, they don't know when the ship will
arrive, etc) but they will fulfill preorders before putting the remainder of
stock on general sale.

Typically you can exit the queue before stock is available without any
detriment (everyone else just shuffles one place forwards), whereas with an
order you can't cancel once it has been processed (because the goods are
already out the door).

Theo

"Chris Green" wrote in message
...
Steve Walker wrote:
On 13/02/2021 01:22, williamwright wrote:
On 12/02/2021 14:46, Chris Green wrote:

Isn't a "pre prepared script" just a "prepared script"?


It reminds me of 'pre-ordered'.

I can accept pre-ordered.

One of my hobbies is model railways. I can order something and have it
delivered, even if I have to wait a short while for it to come back into
stock, but some items have unknown delivery dates that may be 6 months
or more away and may be pushed back and back (delays of a year or more
are not unknown). They may even be cancelled as not enough interest has
been shown to justify continuing with the design work required to
continue or just not enough to justify another production batch and so
they will never be delivered. Pre-ordered fits that sort of item - as if
it was an order, you'd expect it to be delivered at some point.

I still don't understand the difference between 'pre order' and
'order', when you order something it will take some time to get to
you. Thst time may be sort and predictable or long and unpredictable
but you're still ordering it.

But you are preordering when it is certain that it can not
be supplied when you order it. We have different words
for different situations. Can't imagine why for the life of me.

Pre-order (if there is such a word) says to me something you do
*before* ordering, e.g. ask for a quote. It might be mandatory in
some situations (i.e. government departments) to go through a
'pre-order' process to select a supplier and decide who to order from.

Plenty of words are ambiguous like flammable and inflammable, but what
matters is that its obvious to anyone but a nit picker what pre-order means.

On Sun, 14 Feb 2021 07:23:54 +1100, Fred, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

--
Marland answering senile Rodent's statement, "I don't leak":
"That¢s because so much **** and ****e emanates from your gob that there is
nothing left to exit normally, your arsehole has clammed shut through disuse
and the end of prick is only clear because you are such a ******."
Message-ID:

On 13/02/2021 11:33, Chris Green wrote:
Steve Walker wrote:
On 13/02/2021 01:22, williamwright wrote:
On 12/02/2021 14:46, Chris Green wrote:

Isn't a "pre prepared script" just a "prepared script"?


It reminds me of 'pre-ordered'.

I can accept pre-ordered.

One of my hobbies is model railways. I can order something and have it
delivered, even if I have to wait a short while for it to come back into
stock, but some items have unknown delivery dates that may be 6 months
or more away and may be pushed back and back (delays of a year or more
are not unknown). They may even be cancelled as not enough interest has
been shown to justify continuing with the design work required to
continue or just not enough to justify another production batch and so
they will never be delivered. Pre-ordered fits that sort of item - as if
it was an order, you'd expect it to be delivered at some point.

I still don't understand the difference between 'pre order' and
'order', when you order something it will take some time to get to
you. Thst time may be sort and predictable or long and unpredictable
but you're still ordering it.

Pre-order (if there is such a word) says to me something you do
*before* ordering, e.g. ask for a quote. It might be mandatory in
some situations (i.e. government departments) to go through a
'pre-order' process to select a supplier and decide who to order from.

Pre-order may make sense from a manufacturer attempting to establish if
there is demand for a product. I.e. please place a pre-order and we will
assess the interest, if there is some, we will make the product and
convert those pre-orders to actual orders when its ready.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 13/02/2021 15:28, Theo wrote:
Steve Walker wrote:
I'd say that when you order, you have a defined delivery date, usually
pay in full and can claim payment back if it is not delivered within 28
days of that date.

A pre-order is far more vague on delivery date, often only requires a
deposit (and in some cases, not even that), does not have any sort of
deadline, and often can be cancelled at any point without penalty. Once
manufacturing is given the go ahead, it firms up into an order.

Typically for an order there is stock allocated to you - they have N units
in the warehouse so they accept N orders.

A preorder just means you're getting in the queue for stock - they might not
know how many are coming in next week (because the factory hasn't made them,
the distributor hasn't delivered them, they don't know when the ship will
arrive, etc) but they will fulfill preorders before putting the remainder of
stock on general sale.

The term "back order" also seems common in these cases.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article , Chris Green
writes
Steve Walker wrote:
On 13/02/2021 01:22, williamwright wrote:
On 12/02/2021 14:46, Chris Green wrote:

Isn't a "pre prepared script" just a "prepared script"?


It reminds me of 'pre-ordered'.

I can accept pre-ordered.

One of my hobbies is model railways. I can order something and have it
delivered, even if I have to wait a short while for it to come back into
stock, but some items have unknown delivery dates that may be 6 months
or more away and may be pushed back and back (delays of a year or more
are not unknown). They may even be cancelled as not enough interest has
been shown to justify continuing with the design work required to
continue or just not enough to justify another production batch and so
they will never be delivered. Pre-ordered fits that sort of item - as if
it was an order, you'd expect it to be delivered at some point.

I still don't understand the difference between 'pre order' and
'order', when you order something it will take some time to get to
you. Thst time may be sort and predictable or long and unpredictable
but you're still ordering it.

Pre-order (if there is such a word) says to me something you do
*before* ordering, e.g. ask for a quote. It might be mandatory in
some situations (i.e. government departments) to go through a
'pre-order' process to select a supplier and decide who to order from.

Bit like buying a house "off plan". Are you buying a house and you don't
even know where it is going to be?
--
bert

In article , Chris Green
writes
Steve Walker wrote:
On 13/02/2021 01:22, williamwright wrote:
On 12/02/2021 14:46, Chris Green wrote:

Isn't a "pre prepared script" just a "prepared script"?


It reminds me of 'pre-ordered'.

I can accept pre-ordered.

One of my hobbies is model railways. I can order something and have it
delivered, even if I have to wait a short while for it to come back into
stock, but some items have unknown delivery dates that may be 6 months
or more away and may be pushed back and back (delays of a year or more
are not unknown). They may even be cancelled as not enough interest has
been shown to justify continuing with the design work required to
continue or just not enough to justify another production batch and so
they will never be delivered. Pre-ordered fits that sort of item - as if
it was an order, you'd expect it to be delivered at some point.

I still don't understand the difference between 'pre order' and
'order', when you order something it will take some time to get to
you. Thst time may be sort and predictable or long and unpredictable
but you're still ordering it.

Pre-order (if there is such a word) says to me something you do
*before* ordering, e.g. ask for a quote. It might be mandatory in
some situations (i.e. government departments) to go through a
'pre-order' process to select a supplier and decide who to order from.

Pre- order to me means a product has been announced but is not yet in
production and available for delivery.

--
bert

In article , John
Rumm writes
On 13/02/2021 15:28, Theo wrote:
Steve Walker wrote:
I'd say that when you order, you have a defined delivery date, usually
pay in full and can claim payment back if it is not delivered within 28
days of that date.

A pre-order is far more vague on delivery date, often only requires a
deposit (and in some cases, not even that), does not have any sort of
deadline, and often can be cancelled at any point without penalty. Once
manufacturing is given the go ahead, it firms up into an order.
Typically for an order there is stock allocated to you - they have N
units
in the warehouse so they accept N orders.
A preorder just means you're getting in the queue for stock - they
might not
know how many are coming in next week (because the factory hasn't made them,
the distributor hasn't delivered them, they don't know when the ship will
arrive, etc) but they will fulfill preorders before putting the remainder of
stock on general sale.

The term "back order" also seems common in these cases.


Back order to me means the retailer has no stock but has placed an order
with the manufacturer for further stock. Manufacturers tend to make
things in batches so may wait for sufficient orders before starting a
production run.
--
bert

bert wrote:
In article , John
Rumm writes
The term "back order" also seems common in these cases.

Back order to me means the retailer has no stock but has placed an order
with the manufacturer for further stock. Manufacturers tend to make
things in batches so may wait for sufficient orders before starting a
production run.

I'd say 'back order' is a thing that the supplier has run out of, but is
awaiting further stock. 'Pre order' is a thing that the supplier has never
had any stock of because it's a new product. There isn't a huge amount of
difference between the two, but I would expect a pre-order to have less
precise timelines (eg because the factory isn't fully up and running yet),
while a back order may have a more precise delivery date (lead time on the
part is 26 weeks - order now for delivery in August)

Theo