I had mine on Monday. There have been no after-effects, except if I
press on the place where the needle went in it hurts slightly.

Bill

On Tue, 02 Feb 2021 22:22:45 +0000, williamwright wrote:

I had mine on Monday. There have been no after-effects, except if I
press on the place where the needle went in it hurts slightly.

Bill

I had the Astra Zeneca vaccination 12 days ago, likewise no after effects,
only a slight entry discomfort.

On Tue, 2 Feb 2021 22:22:45 +0000, williamwright
wrote:

I had mine on Monday. There have been no after-effects, except if I
press on the place where the needle went in it hurts slightly.


Bill. 'Doctor, it hurts when I press here ...'

Doctor. 'Well don't do it then?'

I'll get me coat ;-)

Cheers, T i m

In article ,
williamwright wrote:
I had mine on Monday. There have been no after-effects, except if I
press on the place where the needle went in it hurts slightly.

Result. ;-)

--
*You're just jealous because the voices only talk to me *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Tue, 2 Feb 2021 22:22:45 +0000, williamwright
wrote:

I had mine on Monday. There have been no after-effects, except if I
press on the place where the needle went in it hurts slightly.

Bill

Small prick?

--
Graham.
%Profound_observation%

On 03/02/2021 15:31, Graham. wrote:
On Tue, 2 Feb 2021 22:22:45 +0000, williamwright
wrote:

I had mine on Monday. There have been no after-effects, except if I
press on the place where the needle went in it hurts slightly.

Bill

Small prick?

They stopped saying, "You'll feel a little prick" years ago, dunno why.

Bill

On Wed, 03 Feb 2021 15:35:05 +0000, williamwright wrote:

On 03/02/2021 15:31, Graham. wrote:
On Tue, 2 Feb 2021 22:22:45 +0000, williamwright
wrote:

I had mine on Monday. There have been no after-effects, except if I
press on the place where the needle went in it hurts slightly.

Bill

Small prick?

They stopped saying, "You'll feel a little prick" years ago, dunno why.

Bill


She said, you will feel a little scratch, I said it's more like a prick.

How do we know that we are not some of the 15% for whom it doesn't work. The antibody test isn't being offered is it?

On 03/02/2021 17:17, Lawrence Milbourn wrote:

How do we know that we are not some of the 15% for whom it doesn't work. The antibody test isn't being offered is it?



It's freely available. Well, freely is the wrong word. It's around
£100'ly available.

On 03/02/2021 17:17, Lawrence Milbourn wrote:

How do we know that we are not some of the 15% for whom it doesn't work. The antibody test isn't being offered is it?


The efficacy depends on which vaccine you are given and how old you are.
The Government clearly does not care about the overs 80s who have only
had one dose. There is also the problem of different mutations.

In the case of the Russian Sputnik V vaccine, the two doses are
different to overcome the problem of the 1st dose in your body attacking
the 2nd dose as it appears. (AIUI the Russian on Radio 4 yesterday)


--
Michael Chare

On 03/02/2021 18:54, Tim Streater wrote:
On 03 Feb 2021 at 17:56:30 GMT, Michael Chare
wrote:

On 03/02/2021 17:17, Lawrence Milbourn wrote:

How do we know that we are not some of the 15% for whom it doesn't work. The antibody test isn't being offered is it?

The efficacy depends on which vaccine you are given and how old you are.
The Government clearly does not care about the overs 80s who have only
had one dose. There is also the problem of different mutations.

In the case of the Russian Sputnik V vaccine, the two doses are
different to overcome the problem of the 1st dose in your body attacking
the 2nd dose as it appears. (AIUI the Russian on Radio 4 yesterday)

Why would the first dose attack the second dose?


I don't know anything about Sputnik. The Oxford vaccine is carried into
the body by a harmless virus. Harmless or not, the body recognises that
virus and organises the usual defences. What you don't want is for the
virus carrying the vaccine in the second dose to be killed before it can
do its job.

That's my understanding, which may not be quite accurate, so do correct
me if I'm wrong.

This being usenet, do correct me even if I'm not wrong.

On 03/02/2021 17:17, Lawrence Milbourn wrote:

How do we know that we are not some of the 15% for whom it doesn't
work. The antibody test isn't being offered is it?

It doesn't not work like that. It is more luck of the draw.

The effect of the vaccine is to tip the scales against you catching it,
but it is a numbers game. It looks from current data that the AZ Oxford
vaccine reduces your chances of catching it by 50-60% and reduces your
risk of being hospitalised by a very much larger factor. So much so that
they are still trying to quantify it.

You need to see some vaccinated, then infected and hospitalised cases
before you can do the statistics on quite how effective it is at keeping
people from getting seriously ill with Covid.

At least one of the common antibody tests will not detect the vaccines
in use in the West since it targets a different part of the virus
protein shell. This means that they can tell if you have actually had
the real virus infection or the vaccine. Only the Chinese one and
possibly the Russian one use whole attenuated/crippled virus.


--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 03/02/2021 22:05, Tim Streater wrote:
On 03 Feb 2021 at 19:47:47 GMT, GB wrote:

On 03/02/2021 18:54, Tim Streater wrote:
On 03 Feb 2021 at 17:56:30 GMT, Michael Chare
wrote:

On 03/02/2021 17:17, Lawrence Milbourn wrote:

How do we know that we are not some of the 15% for whom it doesn't work. The antibody test isn't being offered is it?

The efficacy depends on which vaccine you are given and how old you are.
The Government clearly does not care about the overs 80s who have only
had one dose. There is also the problem of different mutations.

In the case of the Russian Sputnik V vaccine, the two doses are
different to overcome the problem of the 1st dose in your body attacking
the 2nd dose as it appears. (AIUI the Russian on Radio 4 yesterday)

Why would the first dose attack the second dose?


I don't know anything about Sputnik. The Oxford vaccine is carried into
the body by a harmless virus. Harmless or not, the body recognises that
virus and organises the usual defences. What you don't want is for the
virus carrying the vaccine in the second dose to be killed before it can
do its job.

The de-activated virus

I don't think that deactivated is correct.

Maybe this link would help, so we're both singing from the same hymn sheet.

https://www.research.ox.ac.uk/Articl...vid-19-vaccine


is carrying DNA to cause the cells it infects to make
the covid spike protein. That is presumably thus made in large enough
quantities to wake up the immune system to make antibodies to the spike
protein, thus when the covid virus arrives, the immune system is ready. The
de-activated virus does not cause itself to be replicated.

Yes, I think that's right. It's a virus that infects chimpanzees with
the common cold, but it doesn't seem to cause us any trouble.


Perhaps the deal is that the quantity of the de-activated virus is nicely
calculated not to be enough in itself to wake up the immune system.

I think that's exactly the point, although it's not calculated! They
tried different dosing regimes in the trials, to see what works best.

When the adenovirus infects our cells, it doesn't get the cell to
reproduce the virus itself, as a virus normally would. Instead, it's
been genetically engineered to get the cell to produce the spike
proteins on the surface of the covid virus.

Anyway, that's my understanding.

In article ,
Lawrence Milbourn wrote:

How do we know that we are not some of the 15% for whom it doesn't work.
The antibody test isn't being offered is it?

Lets say you have cancer. You know it will likely kill you if left
untreated. You are offered treatment with say a 70% success rate, based on
surviving 5 years plus. Do you turn it down and wait for a 100% successful
treatment?

--
*Why is the time of day with the slowest traffic called rush hour?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Lawrence Milbourn wrote

How do we know that we are not some of the 15% for whom it doesn't work.

There are no 15% for whom it doesn't work.

And if there was, you would know when you catch the virus.

The antibody test isn't being offered is it?

You can pay for it yourself.

On 2021-02-03 9:05 p.m., Rod Speed wrote:
Lawrence Milbourn wrote
How do we know that we are not some of the 15% for whom it doesn't work.

There are no 15% for whom it doesn't work.
And if there was, you would know when you catch the virus.
The antibody test isn't being offered is it?

You can pay for it yourself.

there is no virus

"Michael Chare" wrote in message
...
On 03/02/2021 17:17, Lawrence Milbourn wrote:

How do we know that we are not some of the 15% for whom it doesn't work.
The antibody test isn't being offered is it?


The efficacy depends on which vaccine you are given and how old you are.
The Government clearly does not care about the overs 80s who have only had
one dose. There is also the problem of different mutations.

In the case of the Russian Sputnik V vaccine, the two doses are different
to overcome the problem of the 1st dose in your body attacking the 2nd
dose as it appears.

Thats because that and the Oxford vaccine both
deliberately infect you with an allegedly harmless
virus which is a carrier for the genetic material for
this virus. That isnt the case with the Pfizer or
Moderna vaccines, they dont operate like that.

(AIUI the Russian on Radio 4 yesterday)

"Tim Streater" wrote in message
...
On 03 Feb 2021 at 17:56:30 GMT, Michael Chare

wrote:

On 03/02/2021 17:17, Lawrence Milbourn wrote:
How do we know that we are not some of the 15% for whom it doesn't
work. The antibody test isn't being offered is it?

The efficacy depends on which vaccine you are given and how old you are.
The Government clearly does not care about the overs 80s who have only
had one dose. There is also the problem of different mutations.

In the case of the Russian Sputnik V vaccine, the two doses are different
to overcome the problem of the 1st dose in your body attacking the 2nd
dose as it appears. (AIUI the Russian on Radio 4 yesterday)

Why would the first dose attack the second dose?

Badly worded. The Oxford vaccine uses a monkey virus
as a carrier for the genetic material of the covid virus.
That means that the body builds up an immunity to the
monkey virus and so the second shot is attacked by
the body's immune system. You dont get that
effect if each shot uses a different carrier virus.

Thats also why the first half dose works better
than a first full dose with the Oxford vaccine. The
body isnt as immune to the carrier virus in that case.

Thats not an effect seen with the Pfizer or Moderna vaccines,
they don't have a carrier virus or any killed covid virus.

"Martin Brown" wrote in message
...
On 03/02/2021 17:17, Lawrence Milbourn wrote:

How do we know that we are not some of the 15% for whom it doesn't
work. The antibody test isn't being offered is it?

It doesn't not work like that. It is more luck of the draw.

The effect of the vaccine is to tip the scales against you catching it,
but it is a numbers game. It looks from current data that the AZ Oxford
vaccine reduces your chances of catching it by 50-60% and reduces your
risk of being hospitalised by a very much larger factor. So much so that
they are still trying to quantify it.

You need to see some vaccinated, then infected and hospitalised cases
before you can do the statistics on quite how effective it is at keeping
people from getting seriously ill with Covid.

At least one of the common antibody tests will not detect the vaccines in
use in the West since it targets a different part of the virus protein
shell. This means that they can tell if you have actually had the real
virus infection or the vaccine. Only the Chinese one

There are in fact at least 6 chinese vaccines.

and possibly the Russian one

There are in fact at least 6 russian vaccines.

use whole attenuated/crippled virus.

"Tim Streater" wrote in message
...
On 03 Feb 2021 at 19:47:47 GMT, GB wrote:

On 03/02/2021 18:54, Tim Streater wrote:
On 03 Feb 2021 at 17:56:30 GMT, Michael Chare

wrote:

On 03/02/2021 17:17, Lawrence Milbourn wrote:
How do we know that we are not some of the 15% for whom it doesn't
work. The antibody test isn't being offered is it?

The efficacy depends on which vaccine you are given and how old you
are.
The Government clearly does not care about the overs 80s who have
only
had one dose. There is also the problem of different mutations.

In the case of the Russian Sputnik V vaccine, the two doses are
different to overcome the problem of the 1st dose in your body
attacking
the 2nd dose as it appears. (AIUI the Russian on Radio 4 yesterday)
Why would the first dose attack the second dose?


I don't know anything about Sputnik. The Oxford vaccine is carried into
the body by a harmless virus. Harmless or not, the body recognises that
virus and organises the usual defences. What you don't want is for the
virus carrying the vaccine in the second dose to be killed before it can
do its job.

The de-activated virus

It isnt a de-activated virus with the Oxford and russian vaccines,
its an active monkey virus which is allegedly harmless to humans.

is carrying DNA to cause the cells it infects to make the covid spike
protein. That is presumably thus made in large enough
quantities to wake up the immune system to make antibodies to the spike
protein, thus when the covid virus arrives, the immune system is ready.
The de-activated virus does not cause itself to be replicated.

Thats a traditional vaccine, not how the oxford or russian vaccine is done.

Perhaps the deal is that the quantity of the de-activated virus is nicely
calculated not to be enough in itself to wake up the immune system.

There is no de-activated virus with those two vaccines.

Or perhaps the making of the spike protein does not cause the cells making
it, to die (which is what happens with a non-de-activated virus). A normal
virus
kills the cells it infects, which is why it's a problem.

Its more complicated than that too.

Perhaps the decay products of cell death in that case are part of what
gets the attention of the immune system.

Nope, its the active monkey virus that does that. It has the
spike proteins of the covid virus attached to it deliberately. .

"%" wrote in message
...
On 2021-02-03 9:05 p.m., Rod Speed wrote:
Lawrence Milbourn wrote
How do we know that we are not some of the 15% for whom it doesn't work.

There are no 15% for whom it doesn't work.
And if there was, you would know when you catch the virus.
The antibody test isn't being offered is it?

You can pay for it yourself.

there is no virus

There are lots of viruses, stupid.

On Thu, 04 Feb 2021 15:46:38 +1100, Fred wrote:

"Tim Streater" wrote in message
...
On 03 Feb 2021 at 19:47:47 GMT, GB wrote:

On 03/02/2021 18:54, Tim Streater wrote:
On 03 Feb 2021 at 17:56:30 GMT, Michael Chare

wrote:

On 03/02/2021 17:17, Lawrence Milbourn wrote:
How do we know that we are not some of the 15% for whom it
doesn't
work. The antibody test isn't being offered is it?

The efficacy depends on which vaccine you are given and how old you
are.
The Government clearly does not care about the overs 80s who
have
only
had one dose. There is also the problem of different mutations.

In the case of the Russian Sputnik V vaccine, the two doses are
different to overcome the problem of the 1st dose in your body
attacking
the 2nd dose as it appears. (AIUI the Russian on Radio 4 yesterday)
Why would the first dose attack the second dose?


I don't know anything about Sputnik. The Oxford vaccine is carried
into the body by a harmless virus. Harmless or not, the body
recognises that virus and organises the usual defences. What you don't
want is for the virus carrying the vaccine in the second dose to be
killed before it can do its job.

The de-activated virus

It isnt a de-activated virus with the Oxford and russian vaccines,
its an active monkey virus which is allegedly harmless to humans.

is carrying DNA to cause the cells it infects to make the covid spike
protein. That is presumably thus made in large enough quantities to
wake up the immune system to make antibodies to the spike protein, thus
when the covid virus arrives, the immune system is ready. The
de-activated virus does not cause itself to be replicated.

Thats a traditional vaccine, not how the oxford or russian vaccine is
done.

Perhaps the deal is that the quantity of the de-activated virus is
nicely calculated not to be enough in itself to wake up the immune
system.

There is no de-activated virus with those two vaccines.

Or perhaps the making of the spike protein does not cause the cells
making it, to die (which is what happens with a non-de-activated
virus). A normal virus kills the cells it infects, which is why it's a
problem.

Its more complicated than that too.

Perhaps the decay products of cell death in that case are part of what
gets the attention of the immune system.

Nope, its the active monkey virus that does that. It has the spike
proteins of the covid virus attached to it deliberately. .


The Oxford vaccine is made by taking a common cold virus (adenovirus) from
chimpanzees and deleting about 20 per cent of the viruss instructions.
This means it is impossible for the vaccine to replicate or cause disease
in humans, but it can still be produced in the laboratory under special
conditions. By removing these genetic instructions there is space to add
the instructions for the spike protein from SARS-CoV-2. Once inside a
human cell the genetic instructions for the spike protein need to be
photocopied many times €“ a process known as transcription. In any
vaccine system, it is these photocopies that are directly used to make
large amounts of the spike protein.

Once the spike protein is made, the immune system will react to it and
this pre-trains the immune system to identify a real COVID-19 infection.
So, when the person vaccinated is confronted with the SARS-CoV-2 virus
their immune system is pre-trained and ready to attack it.

Adenoviruses have been used for many years to make vaccines, and these are
always tested to very high standards to make sure every batch of vaccine
has the correct copy of genetic instructions embedded in the vaccine.
However, thanks to very recent advances in genetic sequencing and protein
analysis technology, researchers at Bristol were for the first time also
able to directly check thousands and thousands of the €˜photocopied
instructions produced by the Oxford vaccine within a cell. In this way
they were able to directly validate that the instructions are copied
correctly and accurately, providing greater assurance that the vaccine is
performing exactly as programmed.

At the same time, the researchers checked the spike protein being made by
the vaccine inside human cells also accurately reflects the instructions
as programmed. This brand-new approach may be more routinely used in the
future to help researchers fine tune the performance of these kinds of
vaccines.

% wrote:
On 2021-02-03 9:05 p.m., Rod Speed wrote:
Lawrence Milbourn wrote
How do we know that we are not some of the 15% for whom it doesn't work.

There are no 15% for whom it doesn't work.
And if there was, you would know when you catch the virus.
The antibody test isn't being offered is it?

You can pay for it yourself.

there is no virus

https://www.nih.gov/sites/default/fi...amp=1583244144

"Transmission electron microscope image shows SARS-CoV-2,
the virus that causes COVID-19, isolated from a patient
in the U.S. Virus particles are emerging from the surface
of cells cultured in the lab. The spikes on the outer edge
of the virus particles give coronaviruses their name,
crown-like. [image credit: NIAID-RML]"

This is seasonal flu for comparison. Doesn't have the thinning
hair problem of the COVID, and has a full head of hair.

https://www.sciencemag.org/sites/def...?itok=JeXCHwP7

This is from COVID-19 autopsies.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41379-020-00661-1

"This novel virus was identified as a cause for pneumonia in
China [1]. Much of the recognition of this pneumonia has been
radiologic, described as ground glass nodules with progression
to consolidation [34]. Descriptions include and unilateral or
bilateral lower lobe location with progression from unilateral
to bilateral disease, with greater morbidity when consolidation
and air bronchograms are present. This pattern of illness has
been reported to evolve over 1€“3 weeks [15, 35, 36]. Thus,
radiologists already identify certain features as classical
for COVID-19. The pathology of this progression remains complex,
but we have shown the frequent presence of tracheobronchial
inflammation, histologic features of DAD at different stages,
chronic interstitial inflammation, and vascular injury. Small
and large vessel thrombi are seen with a subset of cases showing
foci of acute capillary injury with neutrophils and necrosis.
These findings suggest upper airway to alveolar progression,
alongside unique vascular, and thrombosis-induced injury."

That's French for "it's a mess in there".

The "thrombosis-induced injury", that's the people that die of
COVID overnight, in their bed, even though their lungs weren't
filled with fluid at the time.

Let's switch over to Ebola for a second.

https://eyewiki.aao.org/Ebola_Virus

"Etiology

Fruit bats, likely of the Pteropodidae family, are believed to be
the natural reservoir for the virus. Animal-to-animal, human-to-human,
and animal-to-human transmission pathways have all been reported."

Zoonosis is a bitch.

Bats are a reservoir, and will provide the next pandemic too.

Kiss your camel (MERS) ?

Pay for it later, with a funny cough.

Dogs catch COVID. Minks catch COVID. But they're probably not
reservoirs, because their immune systems are closer to working
like ours, than bats. Bats "co-exist" with their infections.

Seasonal flu this year is "zero percent". That means anyone with
a funny cough, sitting in the emergency waiting room right now,
that's not flu like it would have been a couple years ago. And I think
that's neat, that vaccines for seasonal flu couldn't make inroads
on the lineup (because not enough people get vaccines), but
masks and social distancing... did. It doesn't mean seasonal flu
is gone, it's just taking a rest this year and will be
back eventually.

If you Google, you can find the virus.

Paul

On Thu, 4 Feb 2021 15:46:38 +1100, Fred, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:


FLUSH the trolling senile pest's latest troll**** unread


--
Bod addressing abnormal senile quarreller Rodent:
"Do you practice arguing with yourself in an empty room?"
MID:

"Who or What is Rod Speed?

Rod Speed is an entirely modern phenomenon. Essentially, Rod Speed
is an insecure and worthless individual who has discovered he can
enhance his own self-esteem in his own eyes by playing "the big, hard
man" on the InterNet."
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/r...d-faq.2973853/

--
The Natural Philosopher about senile Rodent:
"Rod speed is not a Brexiteer. He is an Australian troll and arsehole."
Message-ID:

On Thu, 4 Feb 2021 15:52:12 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


there is no virus

There are lots of viruses, stupid.

You are a virus in your own right, senile sociopath!

--
Sqwertz to Rodent Speed:
"This is just a hunch, but I'm betting you're kinda an argumentative
asshole.
MID:

In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
So it's a GM vaccine! Gosh, where are all the twerps who were in recent
years bleating about GM foods? Keeping ultra, ultra, quiet.

Bit simplistic, Timmy. You've got the Trump virus.

--
*If a mute swears, does his mother wash his hands with soap?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 04/02/2021 05:35, jon wrote:

The Oxford vaccine is made by taking a common cold virus (adenovirus) from
chimpanzees and deleting about 20 per cent of the viruss instructions.
This means it is impossible for the vaccine to replicate or cause disease
in humans, but it can still be produced in the laboratory under special
conditions. By removing these genetic instructions there is space to add
the instructions for the spike protein from SARS-CoV-2. Once inside a
human cell the genetic instructions for the spike protein need to be
photocopied many times €“ a process known as transcription. In any
vaccine system, it is these photocopies that are directly used to make
large amounts of the spike protein.

Even though the adenovirus is harmless, I assume that our immune system
may become activated and recognise/destroy that adenovirus when the
second dose of vaccine is given?







Once the spike protein is made, the immune system will react to it and
this pre-trains the immune system to identify a real COVID-19 infection.
So, when the person vaccinated is confronted with the SARS-CoV-2 virus
their immune system is pre-trained and ready to attack it.

Adenoviruses have been used for many years to make vaccines, and these are
always tested to very high standards to make sure every batch of vaccine
has the correct copy of genetic instructions embedded in the vaccine.
However, thanks to very recent advances in genetic sequencing and protein
analysis technology, researchers at Bristol were for the first time also
able to directly check thousands and thousands of the €˜photocopied
instructions produced by the Oxford vaccine within a cell. In this way
they were able to directly validate that the instructions are copied
correctly and accurately, providing greater assurance that the vaccine is
performing exactly as programmed.

At the same time, the researchers checked the spike protein being made by
the vaccine inside human cells also accurately reflects the instructions
as programmed. This brand-new approach may be more routinely used in the
future to help researchers fine tune the performance of these kinds of
vaccines.

On 04/02/2021 00:32, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Lawrence Milbourn wrote:

How do we know that we are not some of the 15% for whom it doesn't work.
The antibody test isn't being offered is it?

Lets say you have cancer. You know it will likely kill you if left
untreated. You are offered treatment with say a 70% success rate, based on
surviving 5 years plus. Do you turn it down and wait for a 100% successful
treatment?



Dave, can you stop bringing rationality into this, please?

On 03/02/2021 15:35, williamwright wrote:
On 03/02/2021 15:31, Graham. wrote:
On Tue, 2 Feb 2021 22:22:45 +0000, williamwright
wrote:

I had mine on Monday. There have been no after-effects, except if I
press on the place where the needle went in it hurts slightly.

Bill

Small prick?

They stopped saying, "You'll feel a little prick" years ago, dunno why.

Bill

Heard it on the telly a few night ago when Romesh Rangawotshisname
had a jab. Probably done for the cameras though.

On 04/02/2021 14:20, GB wrote:
On 04/02/2021 00:32, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Â*Â*Â* Lawrence Milbourn wrote:

How do we know that we are not some of the 15% for whom it doesn't work.
The antibody test isn't being offered is it?

Lets say you have cancer. You know it will likely kill you if left
untreated. You are offered treatment with say a 70% success rate,
based on
surviving 5 years plus. Do you turn it down and wait for a 100%
successful
treatment?



Dave, can you stop bringing rationality into this, please?

It's the first time ever. So perhaps we can forgive him.

--
Climate Change: Socialism wearing a lab coat.

On 03/02/2021 20:09, Martin Brown wrote:
The effect of the vaccine is to tip the scales against you catching it,
but it is a numbers game. It looks from current data that the AZ Oxford
vaccine reduces your chances of catching it by 50-60% and reduces your
risk of being hospitalised by a very much larger factor.

It also cuts down the spread too, which is why they should have done
all the 10 to 30 YO's as well.

On 04/02/2021 00:32, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Lawrence Milbourn wrote:

How do we know that we are not some of the 15% for whom it doesn't work.
The antibody test isn't being offered is it?

Lets say you have cancer. You know it will likely kill you if left
untreated. You are offered treatment with say a 70% success rate, based on
surviving 5 years plus. Do you turn it down and wait for a 100% successful
treatment?


The 70% 'success' rate is just an average. Most cancer sufferers
are naive enough to believe that they will live for 5 more years
during which time they will miraculoulsy do all those things that
they haven't bothered to do in the previous NN+ years.

On 04/02/2021 07:41, Paul wrote:
Seasonal flu this year is "zero percent". That means anyone with
a funny cough, sitting in the emergency waiting room right now,
that's not flu like it would have been a couple years ago.


https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/u...sappearing-flu

On 04/02/2021 14:36, Andrew wrote:
On 04/02/2021 07:41, Paul wrote:
Seasonal flu this year is "zero percent". That means anyone with
a funny cough, sitting in the emergency waiting room right now,
that's not flu like it would have been a couple years ago.


https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/u...sappearing-flu

Deranged US conspiracy site!

Flu has effectively been halted in its tracks because it isn't quite
infectious enough to defeat the sanitisation measures put in place to
try and halt the spread of Covid. The same was true last spring as the
first lockdown basically nuked seasonal flu in about a fortnight.

Add to that vaccinating everyone down to age 50 against flu and the
reluctance of people to go to A&E in the pandemic and what little flu
there is circulating remains almost invisible except for a handful of
serious cases in the elderly.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 04/02/2021 14:30, Andrew wrote:
On 03/02/2021 20:09, Martin Brown wrote:
The effect of the vaccine is to tip the scales against you catching
it, but it is a numbers game. It looks from current data that the AZ
Oxford vaccine reduces your chances of catching it by 50-60% and
reduces your risk of being hospitalised by a very much larger factor.

It also cuts down the spread too, which is why they should have done
all the 10 to 30 YO's as well.

There is *very* limited supply of vaccine! Working downwards from those
at highest risk of dying is a sensible strategy which approximates to
oldest first. That saves the largest absolute number of lives.

A better strategy would take into account sex, and other comorbidities.
(all the main ones are roughly about a factor of two worse)

Arguably an even better strategy is to maximise QUALYS saved but that is
a hard argument to sell and inevitably has difficult edge cases.

Iff the protection against catching it and therefore spreading it can be
confirmed then people who are customer facing with a high number of
daily contacts should be moved higher up the priority list to vaccinate.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

In article ,
Martin Brown wrote:
On 04/02/2021 14:30, Andrew wrote:
On 03/02/2021 20:09, Martin Brown wrote:
The effect of the vaccine is to tip the scales against you catching
it, but it is a numbers game. It looks from current data that the AZ
Oxford vaccine reduces your chances of catching it by 50-60% and
reduces your risk of being hospitalised by a very much larger factor.

It also cuts down the spread too, which is why they should have done
all the 10 to 30 YO's as well.

There is *very* limited supply of vaccine! Working downwards from those
at highest risk of dying is a sensible strategy which approximates to
oldest first. That saves the largest absolute number of lives.

A better strategy would take into account sex, and other comorbidities.
(all the main ones are roughly about a factor of two worse)

Arguably an even better strategy is to maximise QUALYS saved but that is
a hard argument to sell and inevitably has difficult edge cases.

Iff the protection against catching it and therefore spreading it can be
confirmed then people who are customer facing with a high number of
daily contacts should be moved higher up the priority list to vaccinate.

It's good news that the second jab of a different type may also be
effective. Apart from those who only react badly to one of them. ;-)

--
*Few women admit their age; fewer men act it.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 04/02/2021 14:51, Martin Brown wrote:
On 04/02/2021 14:36, Andrew wrote:
On 04/02/2021 07:41, Paul wrote:
Seasonal flu this year is "zero percent". That means anyone with
a funny cough, sitting in the emergency waiting room right now,
that's not flu like it would have been a couple years ago.


https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/u...sappearing-flu


Deranged US conspiracy site!

Flu has effectively been halted in its tracks because it isn't quite
infectious enough to defeat the sanitisation measures put in place to
try and halt the spread of Covid. The same was true last spring as the
first lockdown basically nuked seasonal flu in about a fortnight.

Add to that vaccinating everyone down to age 50 against flu and the
reluctance of people to go to A&E in the pandemic and what little flu
there is circulating remains almost invisible except for a handful of
serious cases in the elderly.


Doctors in Oz and New zealand have made the same observation. Hardly
any patients with flu last year

On 04/02/2021 15:09, Martin Brown wrote:
That saves the largest absolute number of lives.

Also very conveniently 'saves' the people who are
most likely to have voted Leave and/or Conservative,
while the hundreds of thousands of younger folk who
have had their education and employment prospects totally
shattered, are presumably just 'collateral damage', not
to mention all the businesses that have or are going to
fail.

Dec 2024 GE is going to be interesting, as will all
intervening budgets. Who will be paying the extra taxes
that are needed ?.

My son had the Oxford vaccine as part of the trials. He produced no antibodies. He's since had the Pfizer vaccine.