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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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#1
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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DIY oxygen treatment? Just in case the NHS runs out.....
In these harsh Covid times there are reports of no spare beds, and
hospitals running out of oxygen. It is a reasonable assumption that one could catch Covid, need oxygen, and find that there are no beds available and no spare oxygen cylinders for home use as supplies have run out. I can see that you can buy an oxygen concentrator for around £250-£300. I also see from https://bnf.nice.org.uk/treatment-summary/oxygen.html "Under the NHS oxygen may be supplied as oxygen cylinders. Oxygen flow can be adjusted as the cylinders are equipped with an oxygen flow meter with medium (2litres/minute) and high (4litres/minute) settings. Oxygen delivered from a cylinder should be passed through a humidifier if used for long periods. Oxygen concentrators are more economical for patients who require oxygen for long periods, and in England and Wales can be ordered on the NHS on a regional tendering basis. A concentrator is recommended for a patient who requires oxygen for more than 8 hours a day (or 21 cylinders per month). Exceptionally, if a higher concentration of oxygen is required the output of 2 oxygen concentrators can be combined using a Y connection. A nasal cannula is usually preferred for long-term oxygen therapy from an oxygen concentrator. It can, however, produce dermatitis and mucosal drying in sensitive individuals. Giving oxygen by nasal cannula allows the patient to talk, eat, and drink, but the concentration of oxygen is not controlled; this may not be appropriate for acute respiratory failure. When oxygen is given through a nasal cannula at a rate of 12litres/minute the inspiratory oxygen concentration is usually low, but it varies with ventilation and can be high if the patient is underventilating." From that I assume that an oxygen concentrator would be the preferred solution if Covid was bad enough to require oxygen. That leads to a couple of questions: (1) Is the risk high enough to justify buying an oxygen concentrator as an insurance policy? (2) If so, how do you tell how good (or not) the ones advertised on line are? Oh, and Happy New Year. Dave R -- AMD FX-6300 in GA-990X-Gaming SLI-CF running Windows 7 Pro x64 -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus |
#3
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DIY oxygen treatment? Just in case the NHS runs out.....
David presented the following explanation :
I can see that you can buy an oxygen concentrator for around 250-300. I also see from https://bnf.nice.org.uk/treatment-summary/oxygen.html Just curious - anyone know how those things work? I have seen one running, they sound rather like a small fridge compressor in operation, but how do they work? |
#4
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DIY oxygen treatment? Just in case the NHS runs out.....
On 31/12/2020 17:03, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
David presented the following explanation : I can see that you can buy an oxygen concentrator for around £250-£300. I also see from https://bnf.nice.org.uk/treatment-summary/oxygen.html Just curious - anyone know how those things work? I have seen one running, they sound rather like a small fridge compressor in operation, but how do they work? --------------------------------------------------------------- "An oxygen concentrator takes in air and removes nitrogen from it, leaving an oxygen enriched gas for use by people requiring medical oxygen due to low oxygen levels in their blood. Oxygen concentrators provide an economical source of oxygen in industrial processes where they are also known as oxygen gas generators or oxygen generation plants." adsorption of nitrogen or by pressure and membranes -- There is something fascinating about science. One gets such wholesale returns of conjecture out of such a trifling investment of fact. Mark Twain |
#5
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DIY oxygen treatment? Just in case the NHS runs out.....
Harry Bloomfield wrote:
David wrote: I can see that you can buy an oxygen concentrator for around 250-300. Just curious - anyone know how those things work? I have seen one running, they sound rather like a small fridge compressor in operation, but how do they work? I didn't but wiki does ... compressor pumps air through vessel that contains zeolite, which adsorbs most of the N2, leaving output of mainly O2. Then it swaps a set of valves to continue the same process through a second vessel, while reversing the flow through the first vessel to expel the N2 to atmosphere, rinse and repeat. Presumably they need good airflow into the room, and maybe an exhaust for the N2 rich output? |
#6
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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DIY oxygen treatment? Just in case the NHS runs out.....
On 31/12/2020 15:53, David wrote:
In these harsh Covid times there are reports of no spare beds, and hospitals running out of oxygen. It is a reasonable assumption that one could catch Covid, need oxygen, and find that there are no beds available and no spare oxygen cylinders for home use as supplies have run out. I can see that you can buy an oxygen concentrator for around £250-£300. I also see from https://bnf.nice.org.uk/treatment-summary/oxygen.html "Under the NHS oxygen may be supplied as oxygen cylinders. Oxygen flow can be adjusted as the cylinders are equipped with an oxygen flow meter with medium (2litres/minute) and high (4litres/minute) settings. Oxygen delivered from a cylinder should be passed through a humidifier if used for long periods. Oxygen concentrators are more economical for patients who require oxygen for long periods, and in England and Wales can be ordered on the NHS on a regional tendering basis. A concentrator is recommended for a patient who requires oxygen for more than 8 hours a day (or 21 cylinders per month). Exceptionally, if a higher concentration of oxygen is required the output of 2 oxygen concentrators can be combined using a Y connection. A nasal cannula is usually preferred for long-term oxygen therapy from an oxygen concentrator. It can, however, produce dermatitis and mucosal drying in sensitive individuals. Giving oxygen by nasal cannula allows the patient to talk, eat, and drink, but the concentration of oxygen is not controlled; this may not be appropriate for acute respiratory failure. When oxygen is given through a nasal cannula at a rate of 12litres/minute the inspiratory oxygen concentration is usually low, but it varies with ventilation and can be high if the patient is underventilating." From that I assume that an oxygen concentrator would be the preferred solution if Covid was bad enough to require oxygen. That leads to a couple of questions: (1) Is the risk high enough to justify buying an oxygen concentrator as an insurance policy? If you get Covid-19 badly enough to need oxygen therapy, you will need more than just the oxygen supply. You will also need the qualified medical staff to look after you. AIUI they are in much shorter supply. (2) If so, how do you tell how good (or not) the ones advertised on line are? Most of the ones you can buy online are non-prescription concentrators. They won't give more than 1 litre/minute of continuous 99% pure oxygen and some give a lot less. To get higher rated concentrators or medical oxygen cylinders, you need a prescription and would then be looking at something like these: https://www.theoxygenstore.com/home-...entrators.html You can also get portable prescription concentrators, although they do cost quite a bit more e.g.: https://healthoxygen.com/product/phi...-concentrator/ -- Colin Bignell |
#7
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DIY oxygen treatment? Just in case the NHS runs out.....
On 31/12/2020 17:22, Andy Burns wrote:
Harry Bloomfield wrote: David wrote: I can see that you can buy an oxygen concentrator for around 250-300. Just curious - anyone know how those things work? I have seen one running, they sound rather like a small fridge compressor in operation, but how do they work? I didn't but wiki does ... compressor pumps air through vessel that contains zeolite, which adsorbs most of the N2, leaving output of mainly O2.* Then it swaps a set of valves to continue the same process through a second vessel, while reversing the flow through the first vessel to expel the N2 to atmosphere, rinse and repeat. Presumably they need good airflow into the room, and maybe an exhaust for the N2 rich output? During the first lockdown I fitted outside lights around the oxygen plant at Doncaster Royal Infirmary. The high usage was causing the pipes to freeze and they needed hot hosing down every 2 hours. I wonder if it is the same thing? -- Adam |
#8
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DIY oxygen treatment? Just in case the NHS runs out.....
On 31/12/2020 17:35, ARW wrote:
On 31/12/2020 17:22, Andy Burns wrote: Harry Bloomfield wrote: David wrote: I can see that you can buy an oxygen concentrator for around 250-300. Just curious - anyone know how those things work? I have seen one running, they sound rather like a small fridge compressor in operation, but how do they work? I didn't but wiki does ... compressor pumps air through vessel that contains zeolite, which adsorbs most of the N2, leaving output of mainly O2.* Then it swaps a set of valves to continue the same process through a second vessel, while reversing the flow through the first vessel to expel the N2 to atmosphere, rinse and repeat. Presumably they need good airflow into the room, and maybe an exhaust for the N2 rich output? I think if you look at flow rates and air changes even a well sealed (ordinary) room would be OK. (My late FIL was a builder, he had one for a while for severe emphysema caused by asbestos and other dusts). During the first lockdown I fitted outside lights around the oxygen plant at Doncaster Royal Infirmary. The high usage was causing the pipes to freeze and they needed hot hosing down every 2 hours. I wonder if it is the same thing? Not really. I don't know what sort of evaporators oxygen plant has, whether it's just air source or whether they have heaters. You have to supply enough heat to evaporate the amount of gas you are using. Presumably the "standard" design just wasn't adequate at this time of very high use. |
#9
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DIY oxygen treatment? Just in case the NHS runs out.....
On Thu, 31 Dec 2020 17:23:10 +0000, nightjar wrote:
On 31/12/2020 15:53, David wrote: In these harsh Covid times there are reports of no spare beds, and hospitals running out of oxygen. It is a reasonable assumption that one could catch Covid, need oxygen, and find that there are no beds available and no spare oxygen cylinders for home use as supplies have run out. I can see that you can buy an oxygen concentrator for around £250-£300. I also see from https://bnf.nice.org.uk/treatment-summary/oxygen.html "Under the NHS oxygen may be supplied as oxygen cylinders. Oxygen flow can be adjusted as the cylinders are equipped with an oxygen flow meter with medium (2litres/minute) and high (4litres/minute) settings. Oxygen delivered from a cylinder should be passed through a humidifier if used for long periods. Oxygen concentrators are more economical for patients who require oxygen for long periods, and in England and Wales can be ordered on the NHS on a regional tendering basis. A concentrator is recommended for a patient who requires oxygen for more than 8 hours a day (or 21 cylinders per month). Exceptionally, if a higher concentration of oxygen is required the output of 2 oxygen concentrators can be combined using a Y connection. A nasal cannula is usually preferred for long-term oxygen therapy from an oxygen concentrator. It can, however, produce dermatitis and mucosal drying in sensitive individuals. Giving oxygen by nasal cannula allows the patient to talk, eat, and drink, but the concentration of oxygen is not controlled; this may not be appropriate for acute respiratory failure. When oxygen is given through a nasal cannula at a rate of 12litres/minute the inspiratory oxygen concentration is usually low, but it varies with ventilation and can be high if the patient is underventilating." From that I assume that an oxygen concentrator would be the preferred solution if Covid was bad enough to require oxygen. That leads to a couple of questions: (1) Is the risk high enough to justify buying an oxygen concentrator as an insurance policy? If you get Covid-19 badly enough to need oxygen therapy, you will need more than just the oxygen supply. You will also need the qualified medical staff to look after you. AIUI they are in much shorter supply. (2) If so, how do you tell how good (or not) the ones advertised on line are? Most of the ones you can buy online are non-prescription concentrators. They won't give more than 1 litre/minute of continuous 99% pure oxygen and some give a lot less. To get higher rated concentrators or medical oxygen cylinders, you need a prescription and would then be looking at something like these: https://www.theoxygenstore.com/home-...concentrators/ standard-flow-concentrators.html You can also get portable prescription concentrators, although they do cost quite a bit more e.g.: https://healthoxygen.com/product/phi...rtable-oxygen- concentrator/ Thanks. Useful information. 3 or 4 times the price of the consumer models. I realise that for optimum care there should be medical supervision. I'm just exploring the case where there is no supervision or oxygen available from the HNS, and if having your own oxygen supply would be an improvement on having nothing. Instinct says that if you are very low on oxygen almost anything might improve your chances. However when the price gets towards £1,000 the sharp intake of breath might well increase oxygen saturation anyway. Cheers Dave R -- AMD FX-6300 in GA-990X-Gaming SLI-CF running Windows 7 Pro x64 -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus |
#10
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DIY oxygen treatment? Just in case the NHS runs out.....
On 31/12/2020 17:49, newshound wrote:
On 31/12/2020 17:35, ARW wrote: On 31/12/2020 17:22, Andy Burns wrote: Harry Bloomfield wrote: David wrote: I can see that you can buy an oxygen concentrator for around 250-300. Just curious - anyone know how those things work? I have seen one running, they sound rather like a small fridge compressor in operation, but how do they work? I didn't but wiki does ... compressor pumps air through vessel that contains zeolite, which adsorbs most of the N2, leaving output of mainly O2.* Then it swaps a set of valves to continue the same process through a second vessel, while reversing the flow through the first vessel to expel the N2 to atmosphere, rinse and repeat. Presumably they need good airflow into the room, and maybe an exhaust for the N2 rich output? I think if you look at flow rates and air changes even a well sealed (ordinary) room would be OK. (My late FIL was a builder, he had one for a while for severe emphysema caused by asbestos and other dusts). Hopefully the next generation of builders will not have to put up with that if they pay attention now that asbestos awareness courses are mandatory (and now exist). During the first lockdown I fitted outside lights around the oxygen plant at Doncaster Royal Infirmary. The high usage was causing the pipes to freeze and they needed hot hosing down every 2 hours. I wonder if it is the same thing? Not really. I don't know what sort of evaporators oxygen plant has, whether it's just air source or whether they have heaters. You have to supply enough heat to evaporate the amount of gas you are using. Presumably the "standard" design just wasn't adequate at this time of very high use. I would agree, not designed for such very high use. -- Adam |
#11
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DIY oxygen treatment? Just in case the NHS runs out.....
David wrote
In these harsh Covid times there are reports of no spare beds, and hospitals running out of oxygen. It is a reasonable assumption that one could catch Covid, Trivial to avoid that happening. need oxygen, and find that there are no beds available and no spare oxygen cylinders for home use as supplies have run out. I can see that you can buy an oxygen concentrator for around £250-£300. I also see from https://bnf.nice.org.uk/treatment-summary/oxygen.html Makes more sense to avoid getting infected or get vaccinated to avoid severe disease and the need for oxygen. "Under the NHS oxygen may be supplied as oxygen cylinders. Oxygen flow can be adjusted as the cylinders are equipped with an oxygen flow meter with medium (2litres/minute) and high (4litres/minute) settings. Oxygen delivered from a cylinder should be passed through a humidifier if used for long periods. Oxygen concentrators are more economical for patients who require oxygen for long periods, and in England and Wales can be ordered on the NHS on a regional tendering basis. A concentrator is recommended for a patient who requires oxygen for more than 8 hours a day (or 21 cylinders per month). Exceptionally, if a higher concentration of oxygen is required the output of 2 oxygen concentrators can be combined using a Y connection. A nasal cannula is usually preferred for long-term oxygen therapy from an oxygen concentrator. It can, however, produce dermatitis and mucosal drying in sensitive individuals. Giving oxygen by nasal cannula allows the patient to talk, eat, and drink, but the concentration of oxygen is not controlled; this may not be appropriate for acute respiratory failure. When oxygen is given through a nasal cannula at a rate of 12litres/minute the inspiratory oxygen concentration is usually low, but it varies with ventilation and can be high if the patient is underventilating." From that I assume that an oxygen concentrator would be the preferred solution if Covid was bad enough to require oxygen. That leads to a couple of questions: (1) Is the risk high enough to justify buying an oxygen concentrator as an insurance policy? (2) If so, how do you tell how good (or not) the ones advertised on line are? Oh, and Happy New Year. Dave R -- AMD FX-6300 in GA-990X-Gaming SLI-CF running Windows 7 Pro x64 -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus |
#12
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DIY oxygen treatment? Just in case the NHS runs out.....
David expressed precisely :
Instinct says that if you are very low on oxygen almost anything might improve your chances. However when the price gets towards 1,000 the sharp intake of breath might well increase oxygen saturation anyway. You can get digital Oxymeters quite cheaply 7. They clip on a finger, self contained, working on batteries and show the oxygen concentration in your blood, plus heart rate. |
#13
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DIY oxygen treatment? Just in case the NHS runs out.....
On 31/12/2020 17:22, Andy Burns wrote:
Harry Bloomfield wrote: David wrote: I can see that you can buy an oxygen concentrator for around 250-300. Just curious - anyone know how those things work? I have seen one running, they sound rather like a small fridge compressor in operation, but how do they work? I didn't but wiki does ... compressor pumps air through vessel that contains zeolite, which adsorbs most of the N2, leaving output of mainly O2.* Then it swaps a set of valves to continue the same process through a second vessel, while reversing the flow through the first vessel to expel the N2 to atmosphere, rinse and repeat. Presumably they need good airflow into the room, and maybe an exhaust for the N2 rich output? You beat me to it. I have 3 of the machines. They create a modest level of noise from a well muffled compressor. The units each provide up to 5l/min of enriched oxygen. |
#14
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DIY oxygen treatment? Just in case the NHS runs out.....
On 31/12/2020 17:22, Andy Burns wrote:
Harry Bloomfield wrote: David wrote: I can see that you can buy an oxygen concentrator for around 250-300. Just curious - anyone know how those things work? I have seen one running, they sound rather like a small fridge compressor in operation, but how do they work? I didn't but wiki does ... compressor pumps air through vessel that contains zeolite, which adsorbs most of the N2, leaving output of mainly O2.* Then it swaps a set of valves to continue the same process through a second vessel, while reversing the flow through the first vessel to expel the N2 to atmosphere, rinse and repeat. Presumably they need good airflow into the room, and maybe an exhaust for the N2 rich output? The amount of oxygen they take from the air is fairly small, but, if you are in the same room as the compressor and don't have a window cracked open, it can feel a bit stuffy after a few hours. -- Colin Bignell |
#15
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DIY oxygen treatment? Just in case the NHS runs out.....
"Harry Bloomfield"; "Esq." wrote in message ... David presented the following explanation : I can see that you can buy an oxygen concentrator for around 250-300. I also see from https://bnf.nice.org.uk/treatment-summary/oxygen.html Just curious - anyone know how those things work? I have seen one running, they sound rather like a small fridge compressor in operation, but how do they work? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxygen_concentrator |
#16
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DIY oxygen treatment? Just in case the NHS runs out.....
On 31/12/2020 16:34, Owain Lastname wrote:
On Thursday, 31 December 2020 at 15:53:35 UTC, David WE Roberts (Google) wrote: In these harsh Covid times there are reports of no spare beds, and hospitals running out of oxygen. Couldn't you just split water using electrolysis and vent off the hydrogen? Owain Buy lots of house plants ?. |
#17
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DIY oxygen treatment? Just in case the NHS runs out.....
On 31/12/2020 17:51, David wrote:
On Thu, 31 Dec 2020 17:23:10 +0000, nightjar wrote: On 31/12/2020 15:53, David wrote: In these harsh Covid times there are reports of no spare beds, and hospitals running out of oxygen. It is a reasonable assumption that one could catch Covid, need oxygen, and find that there are no beds available and no spare oxygen cylinders for home use as supplies have run out. I can see that you can buy an oxygen concentrator for around £250-£300. I also see from https://bnf.nice.org.uk/treatment-summary/oxygen.html "Under the NHS oxygen may be supplied as oxygen cylinders. Oxygen flow can be adjusted as the cylinders are equipped with an oxygen flow meter with medium (2litres/minute) and high (4litres/minute) settings. Oxygen delivered from a cylinder should be passed through a humidifier if used for long periods. Oxygen concentrators are more economical for patients who require oxygen for long periods, and in England and Wales can be ordered on the NHS on a regional tendering basis. A concentrator is recommended for a patient who requires oxygen for more than 8 hours a day (or 21 cylinders per month). Exceptionally, if a higher concentration of oxygen is required the output of 2 oxygen concentrators can be combined using a Y connection. A nasal cannula is usually preferred for long-term oxygen therapy from an oxygen concentrator. It can, however, produce dermatitis and mucosal drying in sensitive individuals. Giving oxygen by nasal cannula allows the patient to talk, eat, and drink, but the concentration of oxygen is not controlled; this may not be appropriate for acute respiratory failure. When oxygen is given through a nasal cannula at a rate of 12litres/minute the inspiratory oxygen concentration is usually low, but it varies with ventilation and can be high if the patient is underventilating." From that I assume that an oxygen concentrator would be the preferred solution if Covid was bad enough to require oxygen. That leads to a couple of questions: (1) Is the risk high enough to justify buying an oxygen concentrator as an insurance policy? If you get Covid-19 badly enough to need oxygen therapy, you will need more than just the oxygen supply. You will also need the qualified medical staff to look after you. AIUI they are in much shorter supply. (2) If so, how do you tell how good (or not) the ones advertised on line are? Most of the ones you can buy online are non-prescription concentrators. They won't give more than 1 litre/minute of continuous 99% pure oxygen and some give a lot less. To get higher rated concentrators or medical oxygen cylinders, you need a prescription and would then be looking at something like these: https://www.theoxygenstore.com/home-...concentrators/ standard-flow-concentrators.html You can also get portable prescription concentrators, although they do cost quite a bit more e.g.: https://healthoxygen.com/product/phi...rtable-oxygen- concentrator/ Thanks. Useful information. 3 or 4 times the price of the consumer models. I realise that for optimum care there should be medical supervision. I'm just exploring the case where there is no supervision or oxygen available from the HNS, and if having your own oxygen supply would be an improvement on having nothing. Instinct says that if you are very low on oxygen almost anything might improve your chances. However when the price gets towards £1,000 the sharp intake of breath might well increase oxygen saturation anyway. :-) If you have a prescription, the NHS appoint one of three contractors, who supply and maintain a static machine free of charge as well as refunding the cost of the electricity it uses. You also get a few portable cylinders that allow you to leave the house and a big reserve one, to keep you going until an engineer arrives if the machine breaks down. If you go on holiday in the UK and give enough notice (three weeks IIRC) they will also arrange oxygen at your destination, subject to agreement with the property owner. It is more of a problem if you travel abroad, which is why I bought the portable concentrator I provided a link to. -- Colin Bignell |
#18
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DIY oxygen treatment? Just in case the NHS runs out.....
On 31/12/2020 18:07, ARW wrote:
(My late FIL was a builder, he had one for a while for severe emphysema caused by asbestos and other dusts). Hopefully the next generation of builders will not have to put up with that if they pay attention now that asbestos awareness courses are mandatory (and now exist). Hopefully, it's any particulate matter deemed to be an environmental pollutant they should be concerned about. Maybe now that the wearing of masks has become common, the cutting of stones and bricks with discs without wearing a mask (or even goggles) will become a thing of the past. -- Jeff |
#19
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DIY oxygen treatment? Just in case the NHS runs out.....
On 31/12/2020 17:22, Andy Burns wrote:
Harry Bloomfield wrote: David wrote: I can see that you can buy an oxygen concentrator for around 250-300. Just curious - anyone know how those things work? I have seen one running, they sound rather like a small fridge compressor in operation, but how do they work? I didn't but wiki does ... compressor pumps air through vessel that contains zeolite, which adsorbs most of the N2, leaving output of mainly O2.* Then it swaps a set of valves to continue the same process through a second vessel, while reversing the flow through the first vessel to expel the N2 to atmosphere, rinse and repeat. Yes you can hear it change over each time. Bill |
#20
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DIY oxygen treatment? Just in case the NHS runs out.....
On Thu, 31 Dec 2020 15:53:31 +0000, David wrote:
In these harsh Covid times there are reports of no spare beds, and hospitals running out of oxygen. It is a reasonable assumption that one could catch Covid, need oxygen, and find that there are no beds available and no spare oxygen cylinders for home use as supplies have run out. I can see that you can buy an oxygen concentrator for around £250-£300. I also see from https://bnf.nice.org.uk/treatment-summary/oxygen.html "Under the NHS oxygen may be supplied as oxygen cylinders. Oxygen flow can be adjusted as the cylinders are equipped with an oxygen flow meter with medium (2litres/minute) and high (4litres/minute) settings. Oxygen delivered from a cylinder should be passed through a humidifier if used for long periods. Oxygen concentrators are more economical for patients who require oxygen for long periods, and in England and Wales can be ordered on the NHS on a regional tendering basis. A concentrator is recommended for a patient who requires oxygen for more than 8 hours a day (or 21 cylinders per month). Exceptionally, if a higher concentration of oxygen is required the output of 2 oxygen concentrators can be combined using a Y connection. A nasal cannula is usually preferred for long-term oxygen therapy from an oxygen concentrator. It can, however, produce dermatitis and mucosal drying in sensitive individuals. Giving oxygen by nasal cannula allows the patient to talk, eat, and drink, but the concentration of oxygen is not controlled; this may not be appropriate for acute respiratory failure. When oxygen is given through a nasal cannula at a rate of 12litres/minute the inspiratory oxygen concentration is usually low, but it varies with ventilation and can be high if the patient is underventilating." From that I assume that an oxygen concentrator would be the preferred solution if Covid was bad enough to require oxygen. That leads to a couple of questions: (1) Is the risk high enough to justify buying an oxygen concentrator as an insurance policy? (2) If so, how do you tell how good (or not) the ones advertised on line are? Oh, and Happy New Year. Dave R -- AMD FX-6300 in GA-990X-Gaming SLI-CF running Windows 7 Pro x64 My wife has Pulmonary Hypertension and gets breathless quickly, so I bought her one of these for Christmas.....https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/ product/B086ZQ8D4W/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 |
#21
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DIY oxygen treatment? Just in case the NHS runs out.....
jon wrote:
My wife has Pulmonary Hypertension and gets breathless quickly, so I bought her one of these for Christmas..... https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B086ZQ8D4W Seems that's not the air concentrator type discussed before, but one that splits water? |
#22
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DIY oxygen treatment? Just in case the NHS runs out.....
On 01/01/2021 07:22, Andy Burns wrote:
jon wrote: My wife has Pulmonary Hypertension and gets breathless quickly, so I bought her one of these for Christmas..... https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B086ZQ8D4W Seems that's not the air concentrator type discussed before, but one that splits water? No, it is a concentrator. See penultimate bullet point under main heading: " 【Molecular Sieve Oxygen Generator】 Molecular sieve oxygen generator is an advanced gas separation technology. The physical method (PSA method) directly extracts oxygen from the air, which is ready for use, fresh and natural. No atomization function. " Were you perhaps confusing the need for water in the humidifier? -- Jeff |
#23
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DIY oxygen treatment? Just in case the NHS runs out.....
Jeff Layman wrote:
Andy Burns wrote: Seems that's not the air concentrator type discussed before, but one that splits water? No, it is a concentrator. See penultimate bullet point under main heading: " 【Molecular Sieve Oxygen Generator】 Molecular sieve oxygen generator is an advanced gas separation technology. The physical method (PSA method) directly extracts oxygen from the air, which is ready for use, fresh and natural. No atomization function. " Were you perhaps confusing the need for water in the humidifier? More than likely ... |
#24
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DIY oxygen treatment? Just in case the NHS runs out.....
On Thursday, 31 December 2020 at 18:36:35 UTC, undefined wrote:
David expressed precisely : Instinct says that if you are very low on oxygen almost anything might improve your chances. However when the price gets towards £1,000 the sharp intake of breath might well increase oxygen saturation anyway. You can get digital Oxymeters quite cheaply £7. They clip on a finger, self contained, working on batteries and show the oxygen concentration in your blood, plus heart rate. Is there any actual difference in the gas inside an oxygen bottle for respirators and oxygen bottles for gas axes? |
#25
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DIY oxygen treatment? Just in case the NHS runs out.....
On 01/01/2021 09:36, John J wrote:
On Thursday, 31 December 2020 at 18:36:35 UTC, undefined wrote: David expressed precisely : Instinct says that if you are very low on oxygen almost anything might improve your chances. However when the price gets towards £1,000 the sharp intake of breath might well increase oxygen saturation anyway. You can get digital Oxymeters quite cheaply £7. They clip on a finger, self contained, working on batteries and show the oxygen concentration in your blood, plus heart rate. Is there any actual difference in the gas inside an oxygen bottle for respirators and oxygen bottles for gas axes? Probably a higher sterility standard But if I were dying I wouldn't be fussy -- Progress is precisely that which rules and regulations did not foresee, Ludwig von Mises |
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DIY oxygen treatment? Just in case the NHS runs out.....
On 01/01/2021 09:36, John J wrote:
On Thursday, 31 December 2020 at 18:36:35 UTC, undefined wrote: David expressed precisely : Instinct says that if you are very low on oxygen almost anything might improve your chances. However when the price gets towards £1,000 the sharp intake of breath might well increase oxygen saturation anyway. You can get digital Oxymeters quite cheaply £7. They clip on a finger, self contained, working on batteries and show the oxygen concentration in your blood, plus heart rate. Is there any actual difference in the gas inside an oxygen bottle for respirators and oxygen bottles for gas axes? yes..... purity and contamination medical grade oxygen is 99.99% oxygen when filled into the bottle The cylinder must be of an inert material so it does not contaminate the oxygen while being stored before use. |
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DIY oxygen treatment? Just in case the NHS runs out.....
On 01/01/2021 10:07, No Name wrote:
On 01/01/2021 09:36, John J wrote: On Thursday, 31 December 2020 at 18:36:35 UTC, undefined wrote: David expressed precisely : Instinct says that if you are very low on oxygen almost anything might improve your chances. However when the price gets towards £1,000 the sharp intake of breath might well increase oxygen saturation anyway. You can get digital Oxymeters quite cheaply £7. They clip on a finger, self contained, working on batteries and show the oxygen concentration in your blood, plus heart rate. Is there any actual difference in the gas inside an oxygen bottle for respirators and oxygen bottles for gas axes? yes..... purity and contamination medical grade oxygen is 99.99% oxygen when filled into the bottle The cylinder must be of an inert material so it does not contaminate the oxygen while being stored before use. What about water content? Breathing pure O2 at 0% humidity won't be good for already-struggling lungs. -- Reentrant |
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DIY oxygen treatment? Just in case the NHS runs out.....
On 31/12/2020 18:36, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
David expressed precisely : Instinct says that if you are very low on oxygen almost anything might improve your chances. However when the price gets towards 1,000 the sharp intake of breath might well increase oxygen saturation anyway. You can get digital Oxymeters quite cheaply 7. They clip on a finger, self contained, working on batteries and show the oxygen concentration in your blood, plus heart rate. I had (mild) Covid a short time ago and looked around for an oximeter. The reviews were mixed (especially for the cheaper ones) so I ended-up with a "RENPHO Oxygen Saturation Monitor". It gives results that are consistent with my Android phone, but whether that's a good or bad thing I know not. |
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DIY oxygen treatment? Just in case the NHS runs out.....
On 01/01/2021 10:32, Reentrant wrote:
On 01/01/2021 10:07, No Name wrote: On 01/01/2021 09:36, John J wrote: On Thursday, 31 December 2020 at 18:36:35 UTC, undefined wrote: David expressed precisely : Instinct says that if you are very low on oxygen almost anything might improve your chances. However when the price gets towards £1,000 the sharp intake of breath might well increase oxygen saturation anyway. You can get digital Oxymeters quite cheaply £7. They clip on a finger, self contained, working on batteries and show the oxygen concentration in your blood, plus heart rate. Is there any actual difference in the gas inside an oxygen bottle for respirators and oxygen bottles for gas axes? yes..... purity and contamination medical grade oxygen is 99.99% oxygen when filled into the bottle The cylinder must be of an inert material so it does not contaminate the oxygen while being stored before use. Oxygen at high pressure is reactive enough that the interior surface will passivate pretty quickly. It is more about anything else toxic in with it like ozone impurities for instance. A flame doesn't care whether it gets fed with O2 or O3 but a human does. What about water content? Breathing pure O2 at 0% humidity won't be good for already-struggling lungs. Breathing pure oxygen for too long isn't all that good for you anyway. They typically enrich the air being breathed in by some proportion accroding to the patients needs - lowest enrichment to get blood O2 up. It makes a significant boost to seeing faint objects at full dark adaption (especially at high altitude observatories to have a few breaths of pure O2). Apart from that it isn't recommended unless suffering from altitude sickness (which is sort of what Covid does). DIY oxygen tent is probably a bad idea anyway. Several smokers in third world countries have burned to death whilst being treated in them. This one in the UK is pretty scary too. I'm not sure how it started but my guess would be using the wrong lubricant on the high pressure side. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...sion-home.html -- Regards, Martin Brown |
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DIY oxygen treatment? Just in case the NHS runs out.....
On 31/12/2020 18:53, nightjar wrote:
The amount of oxygen they take from the air is fairly small, but, if you are in the same room as the compressor and don't have a window cracked open, it can feel a bit stuffy after a few hours. This doesn't make sense to me, I'm afraid. The amount of oxygen being used up in the room is the amount being converted into CO2 by the patient. The oxygen concentrator won't alter that significantly. What's happening is that oxygen enriched air is being fed into the patient's lungs. The patient absorbs some of that oxygen, and the excess gets expelled back into the room, where it mixes with the remaining air. |
#31
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DIY oxygen treatment? Just in case the NHS runs out.....
Reentrant wrote :
What about water content? Breathing pure O2 at 0% humidity won't be good for already-struggling lungs. Which is why they use an in-line humidifier, if someone is on oxygen for an extended period of time. Is a nebuliser the same thing? |
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DIY oxygen treatment? Just in case the NHS runs out.....
On 31/12/2020 18:44, Fredxx wrote:
You beat me to it. I have 3 of the machines. You use them all at once, or you keep them in different rooms, to save carting them around? Or, maybe you are just an ardent collector? |
#33
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DIY oxygen treatment? Just in case the NHS runs out.....
On 31/12/2020 18:36, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
David expressed precisely : Instinct says that if you are very low on oxygen almost anything might improve your chances. However when the price gets towards 1,000 the sharp intake of breath might well increase oxygen saturation anyway. You can get digital Oxymeters quite cheaply 7. They clip on a finger, self contained, working on batteries and show the oxygen concentration in your blood, plus heart rate. IME, they can give odd readings at times. Ear lobe probe meters seem to be more reliable, but are more expensive. -- Colin Bignell |
#34
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DIY oxygen treatment? Just in case the NHS runs out.....
nightjar wrote:
On 31/12/2020 18:36, Harry Bloomfield wrote: David expressed precisely : Instinct says that if you are very low on oxygen almost anything might improve your chances. However when the price gets towards 1,000 the sharp intake of breath might well increase oxygen saturation anyway. You can get digital Oxymeters quite cheaply 7. They clip on a finger, self contained, working on batteries and show the oxygen concentration in your blood, plus heart rate. IME, they can give odd readings at times. Ear lobe probe meters seem to be more reliable, but are more expensive. They're supposed to be used at room temperature. If you've been outside in winter, and immediately take a PulseOX when you get inside, it might not be accurate. It's also not a good gadget, for someone with Reynauds Syndrome (where many times a day, the fingers have no blood in them). The little machine would probably not even know it was clamped to a finger in that case :-) It would probably think it was scanning a sausage. I have a PulseOX here, and it seems to be consistent. It's never dropped below 90% on me so far. But then, I got it well after I was having trouble. So it sits there for "next time". I like the machine mainly because it "looks like a cardiogram", and you can see ripple in the blood flow waveform, that corresponds to a fluttery feeling in the chest. It can confirm that you've "still got a pulse" :-) The screen output on mine looks like this. And I do like the waveform feature, because you can see a correspondence between the waveform, and when you have a "fluttery feeling" in the chest. https://www.did.ie/homedics-oxywatch...-px-101-eu-prd I'm sure if a doctor looked at your pulseOX, he would entirely ignore the waveform as being "irrelevant". I like doctors. Only the tests they order are "relevant". Your anecdotal observations are to be thrown in the trash. Just ask some dead people, how that worked out for them. Paul |
#35
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DIY oxygen treatment? Just in case the NHS runs out.....
Jeff Layman wrote:
On 01/01/2021 07:22, Andy Burns wrote: jon wrote: My wife has Pulmonary Hypertension and gets breathless quickly, so I bought her one of these for Christmas..... https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B086ZQ8D4W Seems that's not the air concentrator type discussed before, but one that splits water? No, it is a concentrator. See penultimate bullet point under main heading: " 【Molecular Sieve Oxygen Generator】 Molecular sieve oxygen generator is an advanced gas separation technology. The physical method (PSA method) directly extracts oxygen from the air, which is ready for use, fresh and natural. No atomization function. " Were you perhaps confusing the need for water in the humidifier? That might be their term for zeolite. Paul |
#36
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DIY oxygen treatment? Just in case the NHS runs out.....
On 01/01/2021 11:16, GB wrote:
On 31/12/2020 18:44, Fredxx wrote: You beat me to it. I have 3 of the machines. You use them all at once, or you keep them in different rooms, to save carting them around? Or, maybe you are just an ardent collector? For oxy-propane cutting or heating they replace a bottle, it's rental and cost of (re)filling. |
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DIY oxygen treatment? Just in case the NHS runs out.....
On 01/01/2021 14:01, Paul wrote:
Jeff Layman wrote: On 01/01/2021 07:22, Andy Burns wrote: jon wrote: My wife has Pulmonary Hypertension and gets breathless quickly, so I bought her one of these for Christmas..... https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B086ZQ8D4W Seems that's not the air concentrator type discussed before, but one that splits water? No, it is a concentrator. See penultimate bullet point under main heading: " 【Molecular Sieve Oxygen Generator】 Molecular sieve oxygen generator is an advanced gas separation technology. The physical method (PSA method) directly extracts oxygen from the air, which is ready for use, fresh and natural. No atomization function. " Were you perhaps confusing the need for water in the humidifier? That might be their term for zeolite. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeolite which says, "Zeolites are microporous, aluminosilicate minerals commonly used as commercial adsorbents and catalysts". |
#38
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DIY oxygen treatment? Just in case the NHS runs out.....
On 01/01/2021 14:39, Fredxx wrote:
On 01/01/2021 11:16, GB wrote: On 31/12/2020 18:44, Fredxx wrote: You beat me to it. I have 3 of the machines. You use them all at once, or you keep them in different rooms, to save carting them around? Or, maybe you are just an ardent collector? For oxy-propane cutting or heating they replace a bottle, it's rental and cost of (re)filling. And there I was, feeling really sorry for you. I'm really pleased that's all it is. |
#39
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DIY oxygen treatment? Just in case the NHS runs out.....
On 01/01/2021 16:07, GB wrote:
On 01/01/2021 14:39, Fredxx wrote: On 01/01/2021 11:16, GB wrote: On 31/12/2020 18:44, Fredxx wrote: You beat me to it. I have 3 of the machines. You use them all at once, or you keep them in different rooms, to save carting them around? Or, maybe you are just an ardent collector? For oxy-propane cutting or heating they replace a bottle, it's rental and cost of (re)filling. And there I was, feeling really sorry for you. I'm really pleased that's all it is. Oh yes, I hadn't thought of that interpretation! That's kind of you. :-) I have a cutting torch which when used in non-cutting mode heats very effectively. A more standard jet can be used for glass blowing on soda and borosilicate glasses. Unfortunately oxy-propane isn't quite hot enough to melt steel. For that it's a MIG. |
#40
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DIY oxygen treatment? Just in case the NHS runs out.....
On Fri, 01 Jan 2021 05:19:32 +1100, Fred wrote:
David wrote In these harsh Covid times there are reports of no spare beds, and hospitals running out of oxygen. It is a reasonable assumption that one could catch Covid, Trivial to avoid that happening. need oxygen, and find that there are no beds available and no spare oxygen cylinders for home use as supplies have run out. I can see that you can buy an oxygen concentrator for around £250-£300. I also see from https://bnf.nice.org.uk/treatment-summary/oxygen.html Makes more sense to avoid getting infected or get vaccinated to avoid severe disease and the need for oxygen. snip That seems on the face of it to be a brain dead response. Avoiding catching Covid but also doing basics like shopping isn't a given. Vaccination may not be available until the middle of the year. Cheers Dave R -- AMD FX-6300 in GA-990X-Gaming SLI-CF running Windows 7 Pro x64 -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus |
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