Prompted by the Smart Meter 2 thread, it occurred to me to wonder
whether there was any way in which I could monitor my electricity
consumption in half-hour intervals in order to evaluate whether one of
these fancy tariffs would be good or bad.

[Before I had a water meter fitted by my water company, I fitted my own
meter and ran it for a year or so to see whether I would be better or
worse off with a meter.]

You can buy energy monitors which either use a clamp sensor round one of
the meter tails or count flashes on new-type meters. But they only
appear to give instantaneous readings and daily totals.

Does anyone know of anything more granular - preferable with the ability
to capture the data and insert it into a spreadsheet? Sounds maybe like
a Raspberry Pi application?

If I were to have a smart meter fitted (which I've hitherto resisted!)
but to stay on a fixed tariff, could this be made to provide me with the
required data?
--
Cheers,
Roger

Roger Mills wrote:
You can buy energy monitors which either use a clamp sensor round one of
the meter tails or count flashes on new-type meters. But they only
appear to give instantaneous readings and daily totals.

Does anyone know of anything more granular - preferable with the ability
to capture the data and insert it into a spreadsheet? Sounds maybe like
a Raspberry Pi application?

https://openenergymonitor.org/
does it on a Pi, and will sell you the parts need to hook up to your meter
for not-very-much.

If I were to have a smart meter fitted (which I've hitherto resisted!)
but to stay on a fixed tariff, could this be made to provide me with the
required data?

Yes:
https://guide.openenergymonitor.org/.../octopusagile/

Theo

On Sun, 15 Nov 2020 12:35:06 +0000, Roger Mills
wrote:

Prompted by the Smart Meter 2 thread, it occurred to me to wonder
whether there was any way in which I could monitor my electricity
consumption in half-hour intervals in order to evaluate whether one of
these fancy tariffs would be good or bad.

You could do so more frequently than that, if you wanted.

[Before I had a water meter fitted by my water company, I fitted my own
meter and ran it for a year or so to see whether I would be better or
worse off with a meter.]

Good idea.

You can buy energy monitors which either use a clamp sensor round one of
the meter tails or count flashes on new-type meters. But they only
appear to give instantaneous readings and daily totals.

Some allow access to them via USB and allow you to access the (live?)
data ... that you could link to an Arduino / RPi and do what you like
with. ;-)

Does anyone know of anything more granular - preferable with the ability
to capture the data and insert it into a spreadsheet? Sounds maybe like
a Raspberry Pi application?

There are loads out there that, if you are into programming, could be
made to do anything you want?

If I were to have a smart meter fitted (which I've hitherto resisted!)
but to stay on a fixed tariff, could this be made to provide me with the
required data?

I would think there must be one that could? I had an early 'Owl' (I
think it was) that had a serial output, but I can't remember what it
gave you.

If I understand it right, if you have a meter with a flashing LED,
every flash indicates a certain quantity of electricity used, say
guess 1/10th of a kW.

If you count the pulses (clip on light detector) and integrate that
over time (seconds?), you should be able to get a reasonable live
energy usage?

If you want costings and have a multi rate tariff (E7 etc) then you
would have to know the current time (RTC modules are easily available,
or use network time if on the Net) and the cost/rate and then you can
also display / log / accumulate the costs (inc adding a standing
charge etc).

Something like an ESP32 might make a good platform for such a project
as I think they come with WiFi and BT so good for connectivity if you
need to remote the sensing from the display / logging.

Maybe we could come up with a uk-d-i-y solution between us (assuming a
suitable project isn't already out there etc)? ;-)

Cheers, T i m

In message , Theo
writes
Roger Mills wrote:
You can buy energy monitors which either use a clamp sensor round one of
the meter tails or count flashes on new-type meters. But they only
appear to give instantaneous readings and daily totals.

Does anyone know of anything more granular - preferable with the ability
to capture the data and insert it into a spreadsheet? Sounds maybe like
a Raspberry Pi application?

https://openenergymonitor.org/
does it on a Pi, and will sell you the parts need to hook up to your meter
for not-very-much.


Looks interesting, but (so far as I can see) only works for electricity
metering, not gas.

Given that I don't have a power socket next to the meter, and I've
already got several Pis running, would it be feasible to get the sensor
head, and use the wireless to talk to an existing Pi ? (the site
suggests it might be)

Adrian
--
To Reply :
replace "diy" with "news" and reverse the domain

If you are reading this from a web interface eg DIY Banter,
DIY Forum or Google Groups, please be aware this is NOT a forum, and
you are merely using a web portal to a USENET group. Many people block
posters coming from web portals due to perceieved SPAM or inaneness.
For a better method of access, please see:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

On 15/11/2020 12:42, Theo wrote:
Roger Mills wrote:
You can buy energy monitors which either use a clamp sensor round one of
the meter tails or count flashes on new-type meters. But they only
appear to give instantaneous readings and daily totals.

Does anyone know of anything more granular - preferable with the ability
to capture the data and insert it into a spreadsheet? Sounds maybe like
a Raspberry Pi application?

https://openenergymonitor.org/
does it on a Pi, and will sell you the parts need to hook up to your meter
for not-very-much.

= fukofalot

all you need is a current sensor and some A to D for the Pi. Then you
can build yer own


https://shop.openenergymonitor.com/1...ent-sensor-ct/


If I were to have a smart meter fitted (which I've hitherto resisted!)
but to stay on a fixed tariff, could this be made to provide me with the
required data?

Yes:
https://guide.openenergymonitor.org/.../octopusagile/

Theo



--
€œwhen things get difficult you just have to lie€�

€• Jean Claud Jüncker

On 15/11/2020 13:54, Adrian wrote:
In message , Theo
writes
Roger Mills wrote:
You can buy energy monitors which either use a clamp sensor round one of
the meter tails or count flashes on new-type meters. But they only
appear to give instantaneous readings and daily totals.

Does anyone know of anything more granular - preferable with the ability
to capture the data and insert it into a spreadsheet? Sounds maybe like
a Raspberry Pi application?

https://openenergymonitor.org/
does it on a Pi, and will sell you the parts need to hook up to your
meter
for not-very-much.


Looks interesting, but (so far as I can see) only works for electricity
metering, not gas.

Given that I don't have a power socket next to the meter, and I've
already got several Pis running, would it be feasible to get the sensor
head, and use the wireless to talk to an existing Pi ? (the site
suggests it might be)

could probably get just a sensor head and extend the cable to wherever
you can do voltage sensing
Or add a pi zero w, plus some a to d hat, and a power supply.
the typical a to d is two channel, so use other channel for voltage
sensing. Probably use a small mains transformer to step down mains to
provide voltage sense...
Pi zero W would hook into the wi-fi and be a server on the network - so
write your own web app....or simply poll it for 'last 5 minutes data' etc.


Adrian


--
"A point of view can be a dangerous luxury when substituted for insight
and understanding".

Marshall McLuhan

On 15/11/2020 12:35, Roger Mills wrote:
Prompted by the Smart Meter 2 thread, it occurred to me to wonder
whether there was any way in which I could monitor my electricity
consumption in half-hour intervals in order to evaluate whether one of
these fancy tariffs would be good or bad.

[Before I had a water meter fitted by my water company, I fitted my own
meter and ran it for a year or so to see whether I would be better or
worse off with a meter.]

You can buy energy monitors which either use a clamp sensor round one of
the meter tails or count flashes on new-type meters. But they only
appear to give instantaneous readings and daily totals.

Does anyone know of anything more granular - preferable with the ability
to capture the data and insert it into a spreadsheet? Sounds maybe like
a Raspberry Pi application?

If I were to have a smart meter fitted (which I've hitherto resisted!)
but to stay on a fixed tariff, could this be made to provide me with the
required data?

If you have a fairly modern electricity meter with the flashing led on
the front, each flash corresponds to 1Wh consumed. Just count them for
each time period and job done. The meter does all the volts and current
conversion and cos phi phase angle correction for you.

Adrian wrote:
In message , Theo
writes

https://openenergymonitor.org/
does it on a Pi, and will sell you the parts need to hook up to your meter
for not-very-much.


Looks interesting, but (so far as I can see) only works for electricity
metering, not gas.

Gas is tricky - it's hard to measure without interposing something in the
flow (or maybe Doppler ultrasound?). That means you're left trying to read
the exist meter optically - does it give a pulse or something a sensor could
be attached to? Apparently it's illegal to strap on sensors, but a
non-contact way to read it might be feasible - worst case a camera pointed
at the digits. It would likely need to be tailored to whatever meter you
have.

Given that I don't have a power socket next to the meter, and I've
already got several Pis running, would it be feasible to get the sensor
head, and use the wireless to talk to an existing Pi ? (the site
suggests it might be)

They have a module which is battery-powered and does the metering, and
talks by radio (433MHz I think) to a Pi.

Theo

On 15 Nov 2020 16:09:25 +0000 (GMT), Theo
wrote:

snip

Gas is tricky - it's hard to measure without interposing something in the
flow (or maybe Doppler ultrasound?). That means you're left trying to read
the exist meter optically - does it give a pulse or something a sensor could
be attached to? Apparently it's illegal to strap on sensors, but a
non-contact way to read it might be feasible - worst case a camera pointed
at the digits. It would likely need to be tailored to whatever meter you
have.

Might be a nice usage for the OpenANLP / OpenCV project? ;-)

(Should be) Easy to put a 'Does the value of the reading make sense'
traps in the code to mitigate against bogus readings creating spurious
data / outliers?


Cheers, T i m

In message , Theo
writes
Gas is tricky - it's hard to measure without interposing something in the
flow (or maybe Doppler ultrasound?). That means you're left trying to read
the exist meter optically - does it give a pulse or something a sensor could
be attached to? Apparently it's illegal to strap on sensors, but a
non-contact way to read it might be feasible - worst case a camera pointed
at the digits. It would likely need to be tailored to whatever meter you
have.


The camera approach was the only one I could come up with, but I've no
expertise in that area. Problem is that the gas meter is outside in a
housing, so no power to run a camera from.

They have a module which is battery-powered and does the metering, and
talks by radio (433MHz I think) to a Pi.


I spotted that, providing it works through a breeze block wall, I might
be onto something.

Adrian
--
To Reply :
replace "diy" with "news" and reverse the domain

If you are reading this from a web interface eg DIY Banter,
DIY Forum or Google Groups, please be aware this is NOT a forum, and
you are merely using a web portal to a USENET group. Many people block
posters coming from web portals due to perceieved SPAM or inaneness.
For a better method of access, please see:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

Theo pretended :
Gas is tricky - it's hard to measure without interposing something in the
flow (or maybe Doppler ultrasound?).

Would that no involve inserting a non-metallic pipe?

On 15/11/2020 12:35, Roger Mills wrote:
Prompted by the Smart Meter 2 thread, it occurred to me to wonder
whether there was any way in which I could monitor my electricity
consumption in half-hour intervals in order to evaluate whether one of
these fancy tariffs would be good or bad.

[Before I had a water meter fitted by my water company, I fitted my own
meter and ran it for a year or so to see whether I would be better or
worse off with a meter.]

You can buy energy monitors which either use a clamp sensor round one of
the meter tails or count flashes on new-type meters. But they only
appear to give instantaneous readings and daily totals.

Does anyone know of anything more granular - preferable with the ability
to capture the data and insert it into a spreadsheet? Sounds maybe like
a Raspberry Pi application?

If I were to have a smart meter fitted (which I've hitherto resisted!)
but to stay on a fixed tariff, could this be made to provide me with the
required data?


12 second intervals enough?
https://www.theowl.com/index.php?cID=173

I'm sure that I've seen similar from other manufacturers that provide
logging to a computer or smartphone

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

Theo explained on 15/11/2020 :
Gas is tricky - it's hard to measure without interposing something in the
flow (or maybe Doppler ultrasound?). That means you're left trying to read
the exist meter optically - does it give a pulse or something a sensor could
be attached to? Apparently it's illegal to strap on sensors, but a
non-contact way to read it might be feasible - worst case a camera pointed
at the digits. It would likely need to be tailored to whatever meter you
have.

Short term energy usage figures can be scary, unless you are trying to
track down heavy usage appliances. Daily logs, or weekly logs of usage
are much more sensible. I log almost without fail, once per week and
feed the data into a spread sheet of E, G and W. My sheet takes into
account cost per Kw and standing charge etc. and shows a weekly charge,
total charges for the week and running totals for each year, plus
projected charges for the entire year. All I do is fill in the date and
the three numbers each week.

On 15/11/2020 12:35, Roger Mills wrote:
Prompted by the Smart Meter 2 thread, it occurred to me to wonder whether there was any way in which I could monitor my electricity consumption in half-hour intervals in order to evaluate whether one of these fancy tariffs would be good or bad.

My non-smart electricity meter - not sure of the age but at least 15 years - has a small red LED which flashes at intervals, faster when the power consumption is greater. I have only roughly checked it against the dials, but I think there are N flashes to the kWh for some N that I can't remember. A simple photocell monitoring this LED ought to work, and I've thought of rigging up something but not quite got around to it. Counting flashes per minute would get a pretty up-to-date consumption figure.

Our gas meter doesn't have the same thing of course, no ready supply of electricity to power it, but it does make a faint but obvious click once per rotation of some internal wheel. I assume that I could similarly monitor gas usage with a microphone and counter.


--
Clive Page

Which brings up the whole idea, how does a gas meter work? I have no gas,
but am intrigued as many people with smart meters are told to change a
battery in the gas bit. One assumes then that it the gas is coming in at a
different place to the electricity, and there is no mains connection it
talks to the other mete using battery power, sounds a bit crude.
Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Adrian" wrote in message
...
In message , Theo
writes
Roger Mills wrote:
You can buy energy monitors which either use a clamp sensor round one of
the meter tails or count flashes on new-type meters. But they only
appear to give instantaneous readings and daily totals.

Does anyone know of anything more granular - preferable with the ability
to capture the data and insert it into a spreadsheet? Sounds maybe like
a Raspberry Pi application?

https://openenergymonitor.org/
does it on a Pi, and will sell you the parts need to hook up to your meter
for not-very-much.


Looks interesting, but (so far as I can see) only works for electricity
metering, not gas.

Given that I don't have a power socket next to the meter, and I've already
got several Pis running, would it be feasible to get the sensor head, and
use the wireless to talk to an existing Pi ? (the site suggests it might
be)

Adrian
--
To Reply :
replace "diy" with "news" and reverse the domain

If you are reading this from a web interface eg DIY Banter,
DIY Forum or Google Groups, please be aware this is NOT a forum, and
you are merely using a web portal to a USENET group. Many people block
posters coming from web portals due to perceieved SPAM or inaneness.
For a better method of access, please see:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

Brian Gaff (Sofa) formulated on Monday :
Which brings up the whole idea, how does a gas meter work? I have no gas, but
am intrigued as many people with smart meters are told to change a battery in
the gas bit. One assumes then that it the gas is coming in at a different
place to the electricity, and there is no mains connection it talks to the
other mete using battery power, sounds a bit crude.

The battery is not customer swappable. The battery is a long life one
10 years and to save battery power it only reports to the electric meter every
10(?) minutes, rather than the every 10 seconds that the electric meter
reports to the indoor display.

I have no idea how the modern mechanism to record the flow works.

On 15/11/2020 12:35, Roger Mills wrote:
Prompted by the Smart Meter 2 thread, it occurred to me to wonder
whether there was any way in which I could monitor my electricity
consumption in half-hour intervals in order to evaluate whether one of
these fancy tariffs would be good or bad.

Yes but it is probably easier to buy one of the Owl type devices or move
to a tariff where your supplier will give you one as a part of the deal.

[Before I had a water meter fitted by my water company, I fitted my own
meter and ran it for a year or so to see whether I would be better or
worse off with a meter.]

You can buy energy monitors which either use a clamp sensor round one of
the meter tails or count flashes on new-type meters. But they only
appear to give instantaneous readings and daily totals.

https://www.theowl.com/index.php/ene...itors/owl-usb/

Is probably good enough for most purposes particularly if you also log
exertnal temperature along with your daily consumption. And make a note
of when you are running the glass furnace or other power hungry devices.

Does anyone know of anything more granular - preferable with the ability
to capture the data and insert it into a spreadsheet? Sounds maybe like
a Raspberry Pi application?

If I were to have a smart meter fitted (which I've hitherto resisted!)
but to stay on a fixed tariff, could this be made to provide me with the
required data?

I think domestic users get a transponder to use with a PC.
I have no mobile signal so smart meters are not for me.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

Brian Gaff wrote:

Which brings up the whole idea, how does a gas meter work? I have no gas,
but am intrigued as many people with smart meters are told to change a
battery in the gas bit. One assumes then that it the gas is coming in at a
different place to the electricity, and there is no mains connection it
talks to the other mete using battery power, sounds a bit crude.

smart gas meters have a D-Cell Lithium Thionyl Chloride cell, 15 year
shelf life, 3.6 volt, 19 amp hour, that's why gas meter sends readings
to in-home display much less frequently than elec meter

Harry Bloomfield wrote:

Brian Gaff wrote:

many people with smart meters are told to change a battery in the gas bit.

The battery is not customer swappable.

Yes, I understood the supplier was responsible for changing the battery,
not the customer.

The battery is a long life one

This type
https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/d-batteries/1835713/

I have no idea how the modern mechanism to record the flow works.

Mine uses ultrasonic time-of-flight measurement

https://youtu.be/vPc14g-b2YY?t=348

On 15/11/2020 12:35, Roger Mills wrote:

Prompted by the Smart Meter 2 thread, it occurred to me to wonder
whether there was any way in which I could monitor my electricity
consumption in half-hour intervals in order to evaluate whether one of
these fancy tariffs would be good or bad.

http://www.smarthomeenergy.co.uk/wat...rgy-monitoring

Scroll down and download the PDF.

Data recorded every five minutes, stored for 28 days

--
Spike

On Sun, 15 Nov 2020 12:35:06 +0000, Roger Mills wrote:

You can buy energy monitors which either use a clamp sensor round one of
the meter tails or count flashes on new-type meters. But they only
appear to give instantaneous readings and daily totals.

The CurrentCost one http://www.currentcost.com/products.html has a
TTL serial output from the display unit. You can either interface to
a serial port (be that RS232, 5 V, 3.3 V, etc) yourself or get a TTL
to USB serial convertor. The sensor is a clip on current transformer
to a 3 x D cell battery powered unit that links to the display. Needs
a bit of care fitting around one tail but it's capable or being
pretty accurate. The data stream is XML and easy to decode,
containing instantaneiouos power readings and history.

I have the TTL to USB convertor plugged into a HP Microserver and a
Perl script that logs the instananeous min/max and calculates the
average power level over 5 minute intervals. Bit of PHP and GNUPlot
produces a web page for any given day.

The 5 min plots can spot things like SHMBO'd forgetting to switch the
iron off or energy wasting gadgets like the "keep warm" kettle or
filter coffee maker stewing the coffee...

Does anyone know of anything more granular - preferable with the ability
to capture the data and insert it into a spreadsheet? Sounds maybe like
a Raspberry Pi application?

A Pi Zero is perfectly capable of the data logging and web page stuff
using the XML. Would need to convert the TTL from a CurrentCost to
3.3 V Pi GPIO levels. It would be trickier to to interface directly
with a suitable current transformer as Pi's don't have ADC's.
Aurdino's do, so a bit of signal conditioning from the CT and away
you go.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 16/11/2020 16:53, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sun, 15 Nov 2020 12:35:06 +0000, Roger Mills wrote:

You can buy energy monitors which either use a clamp sensor round one of
the meter tails or count flashes on new-type meters. But they only
appear to give instantaneous readings and daily totals.

The CurrentCost one http://www.currentcost.com/products.html has a
TTL serial output from the display unit. You can either interface to
a serial port (be that RS232, 5 V, 3.3 V, etc) yourself or get a TTL
to USB serial convertor. The sensor is a clip on current transformer
to a 3 x D cell battery powered unit that links to the display. Needs
a bit of care fitting around one tail but it's capable or being
pretty accurate. The data stream is XML and easy to decode,
containing instantaneiouos power readings and history.


Is that showing true watts, or simply volt-amps by measuring the current
and multiplying it by nominal voltage without taking any account of
power factor? I notice that there's also an optical version which counts
flashes from the meter - which should give true watt-hours. Does that
version have the same logging ability?



I have the TTL to USB convertor plugged into a HP Microserver and a
Perl script that logs the instananeous min/max and calculates the
average power level over 5 minute intervals. Bit of PHP and GNUPlot
produces a web page for any given day.

The 5 min plots can spot things like SHMBO'd forgetting to switch the
iron off or energy wasting gadgets like the "keep warm" kettle or
filter coffee maker stewing the coffee...

Does anyone know of anything more granular - preferable with the ability
to capture the data and insert it into a spreadsheet? Sounds maybe like
a Raspberry Pi application?

A Pi Zero is perfectly capable of the data logging and web page stuff
using the XML. Would need to convert the TTL from a CurrentCost to
3.3 V Pi GPIO levels. It would be trickier to to interface directly
with a suitable current transformer as Pi's don't have ADC's.
Aurdino's do, so a bit of signal conditioning from the CT and away
you go.



--
Cheers,
Roger

Roger Mills wrote:

Dave Liquorice wrote:

The CurrentCost one http://www.currentcost.com/products.html has a
TTL serial output

I got one of them free from e.on (together with USB/serial converter cable)

Is that showing true watts, or simply volt-amps

You don't get billed for watts, just volt-amps

On 16/11/2020 18:07, Andy Burns wrote:
Roger Mills wrote:

Dave Liquorice wrote:

The CurrentCost one http://www.currentcost.com/products.html has a
TTL serial output

I got one of them free from e.on (together with USB/serial converter cable)

Is that showing true watts, or simply volt-amps

You don't get billed for watts, just volt-amps

No, you get billed for volts * Amps * Cos(phase angle between them).
If you stick a large lossless capacitor across the mains and draw loads
of current it will not cost you anything.

On Mon, 16 Nov 2020 18:00:43 +0000, Roger Mills wrote:

The CurrentCost one http://www.currentcost.com/products.html

Is that showing true watts, or simply volt-amps by measuring the current
and multiplying it by nominal voltage without taking any account of
power factor?

It has no means of measuring the voltage unless there is a sneaky
means of getting that via a current transformer. When I last checked
what it was saying against the bills it was less than 1 kWHr out over
a days 20+ kWhr consumption.

None of these things are intended to be an accurate check meter just
a reasonable indicator of consumption. It could be scaled in bananas,
more bananas - bad, less bananas - good. B-)

I notice that there's also an optical version which counts
flashes from the meter - which should give true watt-hours. Does that
version have the same logging ability?

It's just an optical sensor and sender to the display unit. It's the
display unit that does the logging and history etc.

--
Cheers
Dave.

Dave Liquorice wrote:

It has no means of measuring the voltage

isn't it powered from a wall-wart? if that is a straight transformer
type with internal regulator, it would have a scaled-down voltage reference

On Mon, 16 Nov 2020 19:59:42 +0000, Andy Burns wrote:

It has no means of measuring the voltage

isn't it powered from a wall-wart?

It is.

if that is a straight transformer type with internal regulator, it would
have a scaled-down voltage reference

But judging by it's size and weight its not got much iron in it...

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 16/11/2020 10:00, Martin Brown wrote:
On 15/11/2020 12:35, Roger Mills wrote:
Prompted by the Smart Meter 2 thread, it occurred to me to wonder
whether there was any way in which I could monitor my electricity
consumption in half-hour intervals in order to evaluate whether one of
these fancy tariffs would be good or bad.

Yes but it is probably easier to buy one of the Owl type devices or move
to a tariff where your supplier will give you one as a part of the deal.

[Before I had a water meter fitted by my water company, I fitted my
own meter and ran it for a year or so to see whether I would be better
or worse off with a meter.]

You can buy energy monitors which either use a clamp sensor round one
of the meter tails or count flashes on new-type meters. But they only
appear to give instantaneous readings and daily totals.

https://www.theowl.com/index.php/ene...itors/owl-usb/


Is probably good enough for most purposes particularly if you also log
exertnal temperature along with your daily consumption. And make a note
of when you are running the glass furnace or other power hungry devices.

Does anyone know of anything more granular - preferable with the
ability to capture the data and insert it into a spreadsheet? Sounds
maybe like a Raspberry Pi application?

If I were to have a smart meter fitted (which I've hitherto resisted!)
but to stay on a fixed tariff, could this be made to provide me with
the required data?

I think domestic users get a transponder to use with a PC.

Not with any I've seen. Some suppliers may offer them. But AFAIK the
general rule is still that anyone wanting to access data from the meter
direct has to (a) buy a consumer access device and (b) get their
supplier to give it access to the meter's Zigbee network.

Meanwhile IIRC the Dutch simply provided a socket on smart meters so
consumers could plug in and get their data - including of course
plugging in something that connected wirelessly to their home network.


--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 16/11/2020 18:07, Andy Burns wrote:
Roger Mills wrote:

Dave Liquorice wrote:

The CurrentCost one http://www.currentcost.com/products.html has a
TTL serial output

I got one of them free from e.on (together with USB/serial converter cable)

Is that showing true watts, or simply volt-amps

You don't get billed for watts, just volt-amps

Absolutely wrong, you get billed for watt (hours).

The electricity meter is a very curious device.
The mechanical one...

"The disc is acted upon by two sets of induction coils, which form, in
effect, a two phase linear induction motor. One coil is connected in
such a way that it produces a magnetic flux in proportion to the voltage
and the other produces a magnetic flux in proportion to the current. The
field of the voltage coil is delayed by 90 degrees, due to the coil's
inductive nature, and calibrated using a lag coil.[16] This produces
eddy currents in the disc and the effect is such that a force is exerted
on the disc in proportion to the product of the *instantaneous* current
and *instantaneous* voltage. A permanent magnet acts as an eddy current
brake, exerting an opposing force proportional to the speed of rotation
of the disc. The equilibrium between these two opposing forces results
in the disc rotating at a speed proportional to the power or rate of
energy usage. The disc drives a register mechanism which counts
revolutions, much like the odometer in a car, in order to render a
measurement of the total *energy* used."

Obviously *electronic* meters can do far far more also than just
measuring current, as well! Rapid sampling of voltage and current
enables true energy consumption to be calculated.

--
Climate Change: Socialism wearing a lab coat.

On 16/11/2020 21:11, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Mon, 16 Nov 2020 19:59:42 +0000, Andy Burns wrote:

It has no means of measuring the voltage

isn't it powered from a wall-wart?

It is.

if that is a straight transformer type with internal regulator, it would
have a scaled-down voltage reference

But judging by it's size and weight its not got much iron in it...

Doesn't need to have. Not to just provide a voltage proportional to the
mains., Lots of turns of very thin wire on the primary of a tiddly iron
transformer will do nicely...

--
A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on
its shoes.

On 16/11/2020 08:08, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
Which brings up the whole idea, how does a gas meter work? I have no gas,
but am intrigued as many people with smart meters are told to change a
battery in the gas bit. One assumes then that it the gas is coming in at a
different place to the electricity, and there is no mains connection it
talks to the other mete using battery power, sounds a bit crude.
Brian

Not dissimilar to an oil tank Watchman and the batteries typically last
a few years so it isn't much of a hassle.

Official Watchman replacement batteries are a ripoff though but tear
down instructions for rep[lacing one are available on Utube.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On Tue, 17 Nov 2020 08:32:56 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

if that is a straight transformer type with internal regulator,
it
would have a scaled-down voltage reference

But judging by it's size and weight its not got much iron in it...

Doesn't need to have. Not to just provide a voltage proportional to the
mains., Lots of turns of very thin wire on the primary of a tiddly iron
transformer will do nicely...

Only a two wire connection, at 3 V, to the display unit. No "sense"
wire. It looks just like any other generic wall wart supply. No
CurrentCost branding or "use only with...".

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 17/11/2020 17:17, Martin Brown wrote:

Not dissimilar to an oil tank Watchman and the batteries typically last
a few years so it isn't much of a hassle.

Official Watchman replacement batteries are a ripoff though but tear
down instructions for rep[lacing one are available on Utube.


My Watchman. instruction leaflet included battery replacement
instructions. Just a standard CR2430 from eBay.


--
djc

(–€Ì¿Ä¹Ì¯–€Ì¿ Ì¿)
No low-hanging fruit, just a lot of small berries up a tall tree.

On 17/11/2020 21:08, DJC wrote:
On 17/11/2020 17:17, Martin Brown wrote:

Not dissimilar to an oil tank Watchman and the batteries typically
last a few years so it isn't much of a hassle.

Official Watchman replacement batteries are a ripoff though but tear
down instructions for rep[lacing one are available on Utube.

My Watchman. instruction leaflet included battery replacement
instructions. Just a standard CR2430 from eBay.

The older Watchman models used a custom built set of AA batteries in a
copper pipe and sold for an extortionate amount of money eg.

http://www.tankdepot.co.uk/shop/266_100/oil_tank_gauges_and_security_products/oil_tank_gauges_and_level_monitors/oil_watchman_niveau_series_replacement_battery.htm ?

Appear to be discontinued so DIY is now the only way to do it.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 17/11/2020 21:08, DJC wrote:
On 17/11/2020 17:17, Martin Brown wrote:

Not dissimilar to an oil tank Watchman and the batteries typically
last a few years so it isn't much of a hassle.

Official Watchman replacement batteries are a ripoff though but tear
down instructions for rep[lacing one are available on Utube.


My Watchman. instruction leaflet included battery replacement
instructions. Just a standard CR2430 from eBay.



I replaced a battery in a sensor a few years ago. The property was in a
rural village where the majority of people have an oil or LPG tank (no
mains gas). Those with oil usually have the same type of level sensors
so probably a reasonable market for the type of coin cell they take. I
had to resort to Ebay as the battery seemed not to be stocked by any
hardware/agricultural store anywhere in a wide locality, even though
most stocked other types of coin cell.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

Martin Brown has brought this to us :
I think domestic users get a transponder to use with a PC.
I have no mobile signal so smart meters are not for me.

Not that I have heard, mostly it seems to be a matter of hacking into
the data sent to the indoor display.

It happens that Dave Liquorice formulated :
or energy wasting gadgets like the "keep warm" kettle or
filter coffee maker stewing the coffee...

The modern ones switch off after 20 minute-ish. Pointless them
remaining on after 20 minutes, the coffee is undrinkable.