Have a two gang RCD protected metal clad socket in the conservatory which
has failed - RCD will no longer latch on. It is part of one of the kitchen
rings which isn't RCD protected at the CU - it feeds the washing machine
etc and other things which are left plugged in permanently. Needs to be
an RCD as likely to be used for things outside the house.

Dunno the brand - it came from TLC. Notice you can pay between about £25
to £80 for similar. Is this sort of failure common at the cheaper end?

--
*Money isn't everything, but it sure keeps the kids in touch.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Do you know how its failed? some lose the these days, often plastic spring
through exposure to heat and cold, but others just lose the pip that the
latch uses. Probably not that easy to get apart. the former failure can be
often fixed but the latter is not so good. The old plastic engineering
problem again.
Does it have to have the protection on the socket, or would a plug in one
be OK? I've seen those about.
Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
Have a two gang RCD protected metal clad socket in the conservatory which
has failed - RCD will no longer latch on. It is part of one of the kitchen
rings which isn't RCD protected at the CU - it feeds the washing machine
etc and other things which are left plugged in permanently. Needs to be
an RCD as likely to be used for things outside the house.

Dunno the brand - it came from TLC. Notice you can pay between about £25
to £80 for similar. Is this sort of failure common at the cheaper end?

--
*Money isn't everything, but it sure keeps the kids in touch.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sun, 01 Nov 2020 11:27:49 +0000 (GMT), Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Have a two gang RCD protected metal clad socket in the conservatory
which has failed - RCD will no longer latch on.

I'll ask the stupid questions:

Won't latch on with nothing plugged in?
Checked nothing untoward in the wiring?
It has got power? Some RCDs won't latch without power and unlatch
when power is lost (maybe a fail safe feature of plugin units only
though).

--
Cheers
Dave.

In article l.net,
Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sun, 01 Nov 2020 11:27:49 +0000 (GMT), Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Have a two gang RCD protected metal clad socket in the conservatory
which has failed - RCD will no longer latch on.

I'll ask the stupid questions:

Won't latch on with nothing plugged in?

Correct.

Checked nothing untoward in the wiring?

I'd be most surprised if anything has changed there.

It has got power? Some RCDs won't latch without power and unlatch
when power is lost (maybe a fail safe feature of plugin units only
though).

It sometimes buzzes. Very unlikely both sides of the rings have failed -
while everything else on it works OK.

--
*Can fat people go skinny-dipping?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

It should not buzz, normally.
Brian

--
Brian Gaff -

Blind user, so no pictures please!

This document should only be read by those persons for whom Paranoia is
normal
and its contents are probably boring and confusing. If you receive this
e-Mail
message in error, do not notify the sender immediately, instead, print it
out and make
paper animals out of it. As the rest of this disclaimer is totally
incomprehensible, we have not bothered to attach it.
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article l.net,
Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sun, 01 Nov 2020 11:27:49 +0000 (GMT), Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Have a two gang RCD protected metal clad socket in the conservatory
which has failed - RCD will no longer latch on.

I'll ask the stupid questions:

Won't latch on with nothing plugged in?

Correct.

Checked nothing untoward in the wiring?

I'd be most surprised if anything has changed there.

It has got power? Some RCDs won't latch without power and unlatch
when power is lost (maybe a fail safe feature of plugin units only
though).

It sometimes buzzes. Very unlikely both sides of the rings have failed -
while everything else on it works OK.

--
*Can fat people go skinny-dipping?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 01/11/2020 11:27, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Have a two gang RCD protected metal clad socket in the conservatory which
has failed - RCD will no longer latch on. It is part of one of the kitchen
rings which isn't RCD protected at the CU - it feeds the washing machine
etc and other things which are left plugged in permanently. Needs to be
an RCD as likely to be used for things outside the house.

Dunno the brand - it came from TLC. Notice you can pay between about £25
to £80 for similar. Is this sort of failure common at the cheaper end?


I would say so.

Called out a few months ago to the horse sales in Doncaster. This was an
unheated room next to the vets office. In order to get the 2m distancing
they decided to use this room.

Two 10 year old unused RCD metal clad sockets had failed.

Just a tip on buying a new one Dave. Try to get one to BS7288:2016 and
not old stock that is to BS7288:1990.

Cheers

Adam

--
Adam

On Sunday, 1 November 2020 16:21:21 UTC, ARW wrote:
Just a tip on buying a new one Dave. Try to get one to BS7288:2016 and
not old stock that is to BS7288:1990.

The old stock is possibly better as it doesn't require additional protection upstream of the RCD socket.

The later standard requires upstream protection. I don't know if the socket itself has changed.

BS7288 has been omitted from the 18th Edition Wiring Regulations for providing RCD protection to sockets. It's an issue of some discussion on the IET forums.

Owain

On 01/11/2020 11:27:49, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Have a two gang RCD protected metal clad socket in the conservatory which
has failed - RCD will no longer latch on. It is part of one of the kitchen
rings which isn't RCD protected at the CU - it feeds the washing machine
etc and other things which are left plugged in permanently. Needs to be
an RCD as likely to be used for things outside the house.

Dunno the brand - it came from TLC. Notice you can pay between about £25
to £80 for similar. Is this sort of failure common at the cheaper end?

This is what I've used:

https://www.screwfix.com/p/british-g...-inserts/4714p


https://www.bgelectrical.uk/wiring-d...rcd-protection

Which is a bit cheaper that your £25 to £80. However it says it's to
BS7288 1990. :-(

On 01/11/2020 16:21:16, ARW wrote:

snip

Just a tip on buying a new one Dave. Try to get one to BS7288:2016 and
not old stock that is to BS7288:1990.

Is there a significant difference?

On 01/11/2020 16:21, ARW wrote:
On 01/11/2020 11:27, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Have a two gang RCD protected metal clad socket in the conservatory which
has failed - RCD will no longer latch on. It is part of one of the
kitchen
rings which isn't RCD protected at the CU - it feeds the washing machine
etc and other things which are left plugged in permanently.Â* Needs to be
an RCD as likely to be used for things outside the house.

Dunno the brand - it came from TLC. Notice you can pay between about £25
to £80 for similar. Is this sort of failure common at the cheaper end?


I would say so.

Called out a few months ago to the horse sales in Doncaster. This was an
unheated room next to the vets office. In order to get the 2m distancing
they decided to use this room.

Two 10 year old unused RCD metal clad sockets had failed.

Just a tip on buying a new one Dave. Try to get one to BS7288:2016 and
not old stock that is to BS7288:1990.


From some light googling it would appear that BS7288:2016 devices are
not suitable for use in this situation. The standard says they are only
to be used as additional protection where there is an additional RCD.

Cheers

Adam


Dave

On 02/11/2020 07:34, David Wade wrote:
On 01/11/2020 16:21, ARW wrote:
On 01/11/2020 11:27, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Have a two gang RCD protected metal clad socket in the conservatory
which
has failed - RCD will no longer latch on. It is part of one of the
kitchen
rings which isn't RCD protected at the CU - it feeds the washing machine
etc and other things which are left plugged in permanently.Â* Needs to be
an RCD as likely to be used for things outside the house.

Dunno the brand - it came from TLC. Notice you can pay between about £25
to £80 for similar. Is this sort of failure common at the cheaper end?


I would say so.

Called out a few months ago to the horse sales in Doncaster. This was
an unheated room next to the vets office. In order to get the 2m
distancing they decided to use this room.

Two 10 year old unused RCD metal clad sockets had failed.

Just a tip on buying a new one Dave. Try to get one to BS7288:2016 and
not old stock that is to BS7288:1990.


From some light googling it would appear that BS7288:2016 devices are
not suitable for use in this situation. The standard says they are only
to be used as additional protection where there is an additional RCD.


I don't have access to the full text but thought the wording was
different and more nuanced - viz "SRCDs are intended for use in circuits
where the fault protection and additional protection are already assured
upstream of the SRCD." So yes, an SRCD to BS 7288:2016 can /never/ meet
the requirements of BS 7671:2018 for additional protection. But then
nor would one to the 1990 standard. Luckily, Roland is not required to
bring the circuit up to the current regs. All I think he is doing is
making a like-for-like replacement (which is of course a darn sight
safer circuit than if he fitted a socket with no RCD protection). And
ISTM Adam is right that he might as well do so with one to the latest
standard.


--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 02/11/2020 10:16, Robin wrote:

nor would one to the 1990 standard.Â* Luckily, Roland is not required to
bring the circuit up to the current regs.Â* All I think he is doing is
making a like-for-like replacement (which is of course a darn sight
safer circuit than if he fitted a socket with no RCD protection).Â* And
ISTM Adam is right that he might as well do so with one to the latest
standard.


Arrgh. Delete "Roland", insert "Dave"



--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On Sun, 1 Nov 2020 23:51:59 +0000, Fredxx wrote:

Just a tip on buying a new one Dave. Try to get one to BS7288:2016
and
not old stock that is to BS7288:1990.

Is there a significant difference?

Donno, but having read other responses I'm very confused.

What is this additional "protection" that a 2016 compliant socket
based RCD requires? Overload or another RCD? If the latter what
happend to discrimination over which one trips first?

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Sun, 01 Nov 2020 13:48:31 +0000 (GMT), Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

It sometimes buzzes. Very unlikely both sides of the rings have failed -
while everything else on it works OK.

Shouldn't buzz. It doesn't latch on so is bust so has to be replaced,
just do you wanta 2016 or 1990 spec one? B-)

And of course the enquiring mind wants to know what/why it has
failed.

--
Cheers
Dave.

Dave Liquorice wrote:

the enquiring mind wants to know what/why it has failed.

Send it to Clive ...

On Mon, 2 Nov 2020 13:10:01 +0000, Andy Burns wrote:

the enquiring mind wants to know what/why it has failed.

Send it to Clive ...

Go nicely with the CU RCD and MCB he's recently done.

--
Cheers
Dave.

In article l.net,
Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sun, 01 Nov 2020 13:48:31 +0000 (GMT), Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

It sometimes buzzes. Very unlikely both sides of the rings have failed -
while everything else on it works OK.

Shouldn't buzz. It doesn't latch on so is bust so has to be replaced,
just do you wanta 2016 or 1990 spec one? B-)

As it happens, it's very rarely used anyway. But if having to replace it,
would like one which is the best for the job. ;-)

And of course the enquiring mind wants to know what/why it has
failed.

Given the vast spread in prices, could just be cheap tat. But unusual with
TLC.

--
*If I agreed with you, we'd both be wrong.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Mon, 02 Nov 2020 14:12:23 +0000 (GMT), Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Shouldn't buzz. It doesn't latch on so is bust so has to be
replaced,
just do you wanta 2016 or 1990 spec one? B-)

As it happens, it's very rarely used anyway. But if having to replace
it, would like one which is the best for the job. ;-)

Well quite, and preferably loosely in line with the regs, even if you
don't strictly have to comply.

And of course the enquiring mind wants to know what/why it has
failed.

Given the vast spread in prices, could just be cheap tat. But unusual
with TLC.

Yeah, TLC tend not sell cheap tat.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 02/11/2020 12:53, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sun, 1 Nov 2020 23:51:59 +0000, Fredxx wrote:

Just a tip on buying a new one Dave. Try to get one to BS7288:2016
and
not old stock that is to BS7288:1990.

Is there a significant difference?

Donno, but having read other responses I'm very confused.





What is this additional "protection" that a 2016 compliant socket
based RCD requires? Overload or another RCD? If the latter what
happend to discrimination over which one trips first?



I think it just comes down to BS7288 not being listed in the regs.

I believe the new 2016 version has a better current breaking capacity.


--
Adam

On 02/11/2020 10:18, Robin wrote:
On 02/11/2020 10:16, Robin wrote:

nor would one to the 1990 standard.Â* Luckily, Roland is not required
to bring the circuit up to the current regs.Â* All I think he is doing
is making a like-for-like replacement (which is of course a darn sight
safer circuit than if he fitted a socket with no RCD protection).Â* And
ISTM Adam is right that he might as well do so with one to the latest
standard.


Arrgh.Â* Delete "Roland", insert "Dave"



Would that need lube:-)?

--
Adam