On a Facebook site for a holiday venue someone was asking for a TV Repair
bloke. I mischievously said that TV faults are in two categories now:
Owner induced Setting Mistakes - or not worth repairing (commercially) and
recalled the demise of the TV repair van.

I know DIY ers can replace power supply capacitors - but am I far from the
truth?

JohnP formulated on Wednesday :
I know DIY ers can replace power supply capacitors - but am I far from the
truth?

Spot on. They are so very cheap to buy these days and the features and
tech changes so much, there is simply no point in attempting a repair,
unless it is a self repair, where your time is supplied free. Even so,
I would only find it worthwhile opening a set up to consider repairing,
if it were a fairly recent one or a mega expensive one.

On 30/09/2020 10:20, JohnP wrote:
On a Facebook site for a holiday venue someone was asking for a TV Repair
bloke. I mischievously said that TV faults are in two categories now:
Owner induced Setting Mistakes - or not worth repairing (commercially) and
recalled the demise of the TV repair van.

I know DIY ers can replace power supply capacitors - but am I far from the
truth?

There are some modern TV repairers about... but far less common than
once was a time.

DIY repairs on the common stuff like failed LED backlight strips are
fairly easy and common.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
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|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 2020-09-30 09:20:17 +0000, JohnP said:

On a Facebook site for a holiday venue someone was asking for a TV Repair
bloke. I mischievously said that TV faults are in two categories now:
Owner induced Setting Mistakes - or not worth repairing (commercially) and
recalled the demise of the TV repair van.

I know DIY ers can replace power supply capacitors - but am I far from the
truth?

I swapped out a blown power board in a Samsung TV for a used ebay one
that cost £25 - it was an easy job that took 15 mins. Commercial
repairers mostly won't touch used/refurbed components though and the
new parts are often not available or too costly and there are liability
concerns no doubt.

Repair clubs are good for this sort of thing.

JohnP wrote:
On a Facebook site for a holiday venue someone was asking for a TV Repair
bloke. I mischievously said that TV faults are in two categories now:
Owner induced Setting Mistakes - or not worth repairing (commercially) and
recalled the demise of the TV repair van.

I know DIY ers can replace power supply capacitors - but am I far from the
truth?

It's not worth doing a component level repair beyond those capacitors (most
of the functionality is in a few custom chips; BGA soldering isn't economic)
but a board swap isn't infeasible to try. There are plenty of boards on
ebay (and Aliexpress).

It would have to be worth the hassle over just replacing the TV - not worth
it for a £100 model, possibly for a £1000 model.

If it's something gone wrong with the panel, beyond a simple broken
backlight, forget it.

Theo

On 30/09/2020 10:20, JohnP wrote:
On a Facebook site for a holiday venue someone was asking for a TV Repair
bloke. I mischievously said that TV faults are in two categories now:
Owner induced Setting Mistakes - or not worth repairing (commercially) and
recalled the demise of the TV repair van.

I know DIY ers can replace power supply capacitors - but am I far from the
truth?

No. It is a question of economics. To spend a day repairing a set,
ordering in parts and checking, even if parts are avialable, a repairman
will want over £100 and probably £150. New TVs are not much more than that.

In short the low cost and high reliability are such that they are now
essentially throwaway devices.


--
"First, find out who are the people you can not criticise. They are your
oppressors."
- George Orwell

On 30/09/2020 12:05, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 30/09/2020 10:20, JohnP wrote:
On a Facebook site for a holiday venue someone was asking for a TV Repair
bloke. I mischievously said that TV faults are in two categories now:
Owner induced Setting Mistakes - or not worth repairing (commercially)
and
recalled the demise of the TV repair van.

I know DIY ers can replace power supply capacitors - but am I far from
the
truth?

No. It is a question of economics. To spend a day repairing a set,
ordering in parts and checking, even if parts are avialable, a repairman
will want over £100 and probably £150. New TVs are not much more than that.

In short the low cost and high reliability are such that they are now
essentially throwaway devices.



Its a shame there is no extra 4th R to the EU's 3 R's mantra,

Reduce, Re-use, Recycle AND *Repair*

On 30/09/2020 12:11, No Name wrote:


Its a shame there is no extra 4th R to the EU's 3 R's mantra,

Reduce, Re-use, Recycle AND *Repair*

Re-use is also frowned upon by business.

Councils have rules against folks dragging away reusable things from the
rubbish tip, even though the BBC made a series of programmes championing
the practice ;-(

--
Adrian C

On 30/09/2020 12:11, No Name wrote:
On 30/09/2020 12:05, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 30/09/2020 10:20, JohnP wrote:
On a Facebook site for a holiday venue someone was asking for a TV
Repair
bloke. I mischievously said that TV faults are in two categories now:
Owner induced Setting Mistakes - or not worth repairing
(commercially) and
recalled the demise of the TV repair van.

I know DIY ers can replace power supply capacitors - but am I far
from the
truth?

No. It is a question of economics. To spend a day repairing a set,
ordering in parts and checking, even if parts are avialable, a
repairman will want over £100 and probably £150. New TVs are not much
more than that.

In short the low cost and high reliability are such that they are now
essentially throwaway devices.



Its a shame there is no extra 4th R to the EU's 3 R's mantra,

Reduce, Re-use, Recycle AND *Repair*
There is - or would be - a simple way to encourage repair.

Remove tax on labour (income tax) and businesses (corporation tax) and
premises (council tax) and put tax instead on new goods .

Socialist governments have taxed productive work in order to fund
unproductive work, and driven it all abroad.


--
The New Left are the people they warned you about.

Adrian Caspersz used his keyboard to write :
Councils have rules against folks dragging away reusable things from the
rubbish tip, even though the BBC made a series of programmes championing the
practice ;-(

My local council has a shop at the tip, selling such items. I have been
in a couple of times out of curiosity. It is mostly over-priced tat -
clothes, furniture, household goods and electronics. I guess they rely
on people handing stuff in for the shop, rather than collecting it from
the bin lorries.

On Wed, 30 Sep 2020 12:11:27 +0100, No Name wrote:

On 30/09/2020 12:05, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 30/09/2020 10:20, JohnP wrote:
On a Facebook site for a holiday venue someone was asking for a TV
Repair bloke. I mischievously said that TV faults are in two
categories now: Owner induced Setting Mistakes - or not worth
repairing (commercially) and recalled the demise of the TV repair van.

I know DIY ers can replace power supply capacitors - but am I far from
the truth?

No. It is a question of economics. To spend a day repairing a set,
ordering in parts and checking, even if parts are avialable, a
repairman will want over £100 and probably £150. New TVs are not much
more than that.

In short the low cost and high reliability are such that they are now
essentially throwaway devices.



Its a shame there is no extra 4th R to the EU's 3 R's mantra,

Reduce, Re-use, Recycle AND *Repair*

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49884827

This government have avoided that, to prop up our substandard
manufacturing.

--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On 30/09/2020 12:29, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
On 30/09/2020 12:11, No Name wrote:


Its a shame there is no extra 4th R to the EU's 3 R's mantra,

Reduce, Re-use, Recycle AND *Repair*

Re-use is also frowned upon by business.

Councils have rules against folks dragging away reusable things from the
rubbish tip, even though the BBC made a series of programmes championing
the practice ;-(



Yes, I was told that once something is thrown into a skip provided by an
external waste/recycling company, it now becomes the property of the
skip company.

So the practice of "Skip diving" for reuse is viewed to be theft from
the skip owner.....

On 30/09/2020 10:20, JohnP wrote:
On a Facebook site for a holiday venue someone was asking for a TV Repair
bloke. I mischievously said that TV faults are in two categories now:
Owner induced Setting Mistakes - or not worth repairing (commercially) and
recalled the demise of the TV repair van.

I know DIY ers can replace power supply capacitors - but am I far from the
truth?

When my TV went wrong, as it was under guarantee the vendor sent a
repairer round to assess whether it would be cheaper to repair, or
supply a replacement under the guarantee. In my case it was the latter -
the guy took one look at the screen and said that the TV was unrepairable.

--

Jeff

In article ,
Adrian Caspersz wrote:
On 30/09/2020 12:11, No Name wrote:


Its a shame there is no extra 4th R to the EU's 3 R's mantra,

Reduce, Re-use, Recycle AND *Repair*

Re-use is also frowned upon by business.

Councils have rules against folks dragging away reusable things from the
rubbish tip, even though the BBC made a series of programmes championing
the practice ;-(

Our local council "dump" has a "Re-use shop" in aid of charity.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 30/09/2020 10:59, John Rumm wrote:
On 30/09/2020 10:20, JohnP wrote:
On a Facebook site for a holiday venue someone was asking for a TV Repair
bloke. I mischievously said that TV faults are in two categories now:
Owner induced Setting Mistakes - or not worth repairing (commercially)
and
recalled the demise of the TV repair van.

I know DIY ers can replace power supply capacitors - but am I far from
the
truth?

There are some modern TV repairers about... but far less common than
once was a time.

DIY repairs on the common stuff like failed LED backlight strips are
fairly easy and common.


I had a board fail on a five year old Pany, it would have been a
straightforward swap for about £100 but not really worth it on a £600 TV
especially as Amazon offered me £100 discount on a new one.

In article 2020093011070676720-nospam@nospamcom,
John Smith wrote:
I swapped out a blown power board in a Samsung TV for a used ebay one
that cost £25 - it was an easy job that took 15 mins. Commercial
repairers mostly won't touch used/refurbed components though and the
new parts are often not available or too costly and there are liability
concerns no doubt.

I did exactly the same. On a not that old Samsung, just out of warranty. I
suppose the boards come from ones which have been dropped, etc, and the
screen damaged.

I had checked all the caps in the original supply, but all showed good.

It's still working years later, but in the spare room, so not much used.

--
*Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 2020-09-30 13:43:10 +0000, Dave Plowman (News) said:

I had checked all the caps in the original supply, but all showed good.

On my one you could see blackening on part of the board and my wife
said it failed with a pop. I was away and she went and bought a new TV
and I found the Samsung out the front when I came back - back in it
went and part ordered - and it's now in the spare room!

Well, that is why of course so many services like bt and virgin etc say they
will charge for a service call if it turns out to be user error. it must
waste loads of time. The problem is that nobody reads the destructions or
does not absorb them or in some cases, the instructions consist of a load of
pictures of dos and don'ts which many people simply don't understand. It
used to be Japanese English, now it no English, only pictures. I bet cave
paintings are really instruction manuals for the tech on if the day!

Brian

--
--
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"JohnP" wrote in message
. ..
On a Facebook site for a holiday venue someone was asking for a TV Repair
bloke. I mischievously said that TV faults are in two categories now:
Owner induced Setting Mistakes - or not worth repairing (commercially) and
recalled the demise of the TV repair van.

I know DIY ers can replace power supply capacitors - but am I far from the
truth?

and not a plasma whereby putting it face down knackers the screen if its
more than a few months old.
Brian

--
--
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
Harry Bloomfield; "Esq." wrote in message
...
JohnP formulated on Wednesday :
I know DIY ers can replace power supply capacitors - but am I far from
the
truth?

Spot on. They are so very cheap to buy these days and the features and
tech changes so much, there is simply no point in attempting a repair,
unless it is a self repair, where your time is supplied free. Even so, I
would only find it worthwhile opening a set up to consider repairing, if
it were a fairly recent one or a mega expensive one.

"JohnP" wrote in message
. ..
On a Facebook site for a holiday venue someone was asking for a TV Repair
bloke. I mischievously said that TV faults are in two categories now:
Owner induced Setting Mistakes - or not worth repairing (commercially) and
recalled the demise of the TV repair van.

I know DIY ers can replace power supply capacitors - but am I far from the
truth?

uneconomic for a business to repair most electronics these days
however there are still quite a few retired ex-tv repair man doing it as a
side line
One in Hastings, TV repairs £30 and no-fix-no fee

-

On 30/09/2020 10:20, JohnP wrote:
On a Facebook site for a holiday venue someone was asking for a TV Repair
bloke. I mischievously said that TV faults are in two categories now:
Owner induced Setting Mistakes - or not worth repairing (commercially) and
recalled the demise of the TV repair van.

I know DIY ers can replace power supply capacitors - but am I far from the
truth?

When TV sets or videos cost a months wages but could be repaired for
less than a days wage then repair was economic.
Now that smaller TVs cost the equivalent a weeks wage (£500 or less) and
repairs (parts/labour/call out) cost 1 or 2 days wages (£100 to £200)
repair is not economic.

I stopped fixing videos when Sky started "giving" away recorders and
Tesco started selling a video recorder for £39.99 - which would last 18
months and then stop rewinding. Parts to fix it cost about £20 + labour,
repair not economic. :-)


--
Ask how to email me.

On 30/09/2020 12:05, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 30/09/2020 10:20, JohnP wrote:
On a Facebook site for a holiday venue someone was asking for a TV Repair
bloke. I mischievously said that TV faults are in two categories now:
Owner induced Setting Mistakes - or not worth repairing (commercially)
and
recalled the demise of the TV repair van.

I know DIY ers can replace power supply capacitors - but am I far from
the
truth?

No. It is a question of economics. To spend a day repairing a set,
ordering in parts and checking, even if parts are avialable, a repairman
will want over £100 and probably £150. New TVs are not much more than that.

On the other hand if a replacement 65" OLED was going to cost you 2K,
you might feel the £250 repair was a better option.

In short the low cost and high reliability are such that they are now
essentially throwaway devices.

At the lower end certainly.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
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|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

John Rumm wrote:

here are some modern TV repairers about... but far less common than once
was a time.

DIY repairs on the common stuff like failed LED backlight strips are
fairly easy and common.

Yeah, I'd expect it's limited to duff power supplies, duff backlights or
duff backlight power supplies ...

On 30/09/2020 14:12, charles wrote:
In article ,
Adrian Caspersz wrote:
On 30/09/2020 12:11, No Name wrote:


Its a shame there is no extra 4th R to the EU's 3 R's mantra,

Reduce, Re-use, Recycle AND *Repair*

Re-use is also frowned upon by business.

Councils have rules against folks dragging away reusable things from the
rubbish tip, even though the BBC made a series of programmes championing
the practice ;-(

Our local council "dump" has a "Re-use shop" in aid of charity.


But some of your 'neighbours' took to motoring down to
Billingshurst to dump hardcore, soil, builders waste (*) so now
West Sussex residents have to prove who they are by showing a
utility bill or similar.

(*) Charged by Surrey CC, but not West Sussex CC.

On 30/09/2020 12:29, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 30/09/2020 12:11, No Name wrote:
On 30/09/2020 12:05, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 30/09/2020 10:20, JohnP wrote:
On a Facebook site for a holiday venue someone was asking for a TV
Repair
bloke. I mischievously said that TV faults are in two categories now:
Owner induced Setting Mistakes - or not worth repairing
(commercially) and
recalled the demise of the TV repair van.

I know DIY ers can replace power supply capacitors - but am I far
from the
truth?

No. It is a question of economics. To spend a day repairing a set,
ordering in parts and checking, even if parts are avialable, a
repairman will want over £100 and probably £150. New TVs are not much
more than that.

In short the low cost and high reliability are such that they are now
essentially throwaway devices.



Its a shame there is no extra 4th R to the EU's 3 R's mantra,

Reduce, Re-use, Recycle AND *Repair*
There is - or would be - a simple way to encourage repair.

Remove tax on labour (income tax) and businesses (corporation tax) and
premises (council tax) and put tax instead on new goods .

Socialist governments have taxed productive work in order to fund
unproductive work, and driven it all abroad.



There already is a 20% tax on most new goods though.

On 30/09/2020 21:11:08, Andy Burns wrote:
John Rumm wrote:

here are some modern TV repairers about... but far less common than
once was a time.

DIY repairs on the common stuff like failed LED backlight strips are
fairly easy and common.

Yeah, I'd expect it's limited to duff power supplies, duff backlights or
duff backlight power supplies ...

Even someone experienced in electronics and the inner workings of modern
TVs would still struggle to find any circuit diagrams.

Most repairs were of the "stock" variety where each model would have
it's Achilles heel(s), where repairers would make a series of component
replacements without knowing the unit in details.

On 30/09/2020 21:11, Andy Burns wrote:
John Rumm wrote:

here are some modern TV repairers about... but far less common than
once was a time.

DIY repairs on the common stuff like failed LED backlight strips are
fairly easy and common.

Yeah, I'd expect it's limited to duff power supplies, duff backlights or
duff backlight power supplies ...

Main I/O boards and TCon boards can also be cost effective to DIY.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
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|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

John Rumm wrote:
On 30/09/2020 21:11, Andy Burns wrote:
John Rumm wrote:

here are some modern TV repairers about... but far less common than
once was a time.

DIY repairs on the common stuff like failed LED backlight strips are
fairly easy and common.

Yeah, I'd expect it's limited to duff power supplies, duff backlights or
duff backlight power supplies ...

Main I/O boards and TCon boards can also be cost effective to DIY.

Board swap, or component level fix?

Reminds me of a series of Samsung 30" 2560x1600 monitors we had at work -
they all failed with coloured stripes down the screen. Turns out the TCon
chip, which was a HardCopy ASIC version of an Altera FPGA, overheated and
desoldered itself. The fix was to bake the board to reflow the TCon, and to
drill holes in the plastic casing to increase the airflow and cool it while
in use.

It was about 50% successful, but it extened the lifetime of those (quite
pricey for their time) monitors for a good few years. For that sort of
thing, and given we had a tame service engineer on the staff, it made sense
to repair.

Theo

On 01/10/2020 10:29, Theo wrote:
John Rumm wrote:
On 30/09/2020 21:11, Andy Burns wrote:
John Rumm wrote:

here are some modern TV repairers about... but far less common than
once was a time.

DIY repairs on the common stuff like failed LED backlight strips are
fairly easy and common.

Yeah, I'd expect it's limited to duff power supplies, duff backlights or
duff backlight power supplies ...

Main I/O boards and TCon boards can also be cost effective to DIY.

Board swap, or component level fix?

Normally just board swap, but sometimes it can be worth doing component
level (at least as far down as passives and voltage regulators etc).

Going much beyond that normally requires schematics, and decent test
gear etc so is not usually cost effective unless you happen to have a
decent mixed signal scope or logic analyser to hand. Even if you can
identify a failed part - if its custom silicon, then you move on to the
next problem of where to get one.

Reminds me of a series of Samsung 30" 2560x1600 monitors we had at work -
they all failed with coloured stripes down the screen. Turns out the TCon
chip, which was a HardCopy ASIC version of an Altera FPGA, overheated and
desoldered itself. The fix was to bake the board to reflow the TCon, and to
drill holes in the plastic casing to increase the airflow and cool it while
in use.

It was about 50% successful, but it extened the lifetime of those (quite
pricey for their time) monitors for a good few years. For that sort of
thing, and given we had a tame service engineer on the staff, it made sense
to repair.

Yup, and sometimes from a DIY PoV it might be worth doing for the
satisfaction and "because you can" even if its not cost effective were
you to put a price on your time.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
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| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 30/09/2020 10:20, JohnP wrote:
On a Facebook site for a holiday venue someone was asking for a TV Repair
bloke. I mischievously said that TV faults are in two categories now:
Owner induced Setting Mistakes - or not worth repairing (commercially) and
recalled the demise of the TV repair van.

I know DIY ers can replace power supply capacitors - but am I far from the
truth?


Of course not. A top of the range 50" Samsung is just over £300. How
much can a repairman charge for fixing it + parts to make it worthwhile?
Next to nothing.

JoeJoe wrote:

A top of the range 50" Samsung is just over £300.

If we give you +/- an inch, ao.com says you're between £100 and £1000
out ...

https://ao.com/l/tvs-samsung-49_inches--or--50_inches-43_inches_to_54_inches/1-6-57-91/107-108/?sort=aol_saleincvat

On 03/10/2020 09:33, Andy Burns wrote:
JoeJoe wrote:

A top of the range 50" Samsung is just over £300.

If we give you +/- an inch, ao.com says you're between £100 and £1000
out ...

https://ao.com/l/tvs-samsung-49_inches--or--50_inches-43_inches_to_54_inches/1-6-57-91/107-108/?sort=aol_saleincvat

yes. a 42" is around that figure I believe

https://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/tv-and...06274-pdt.html

is a 50" at £349


--
The theory of Communism may be summed up in one sentence: Abolish all
private property.

Karl Marx

On 3 Oct 2020 at 11:47:52 BST, "The Natural Philosopher"
wrote:

On 03/10/2020 09:33, Andy Burns wrote:
JoeJoe wrote:

A top of the range 50" Samsung is just over £300.

If we give you +/- an inch, ao.com says you're between £100 and £1000
out ...


https://ao.com/l/tvs-samsung-49_inches--or--50_inches-43_inches_to_54_inches/1-6-57-91/107-108/?sort=aol_saleincvat


yes. a 42" is around that figure I believe


https://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/tv-and...06274-pdt.html

is a 50" at £349

Top of the range?

--
Cheers, Rob

In article ,
RJH wrote:
On 3 Oct 2020 at 11:47:52 BST, "The Natural Philosopher"
wrote:

On 03/10/2020 09:33, Andy Burns wrote:
JoeJoe wrote:

A top of the range 50" Samsung is just over £300.

If we give you +/- an inch, ao.com says you're between £100 and £1000
out ...


https://ao.com/l/tvs-samsung-49_inches--or--50_inches-43_inches_to_54_inches/1-6-57-91/107-108/?sort=aol_saleincvat


yes. a 42" is around that figure I believe


https://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/tv-and...06274-pdt.html

is a 50" at £349

Top of the range?

Top of his range?

--
*IS THERE ANOTHER WORD FOR SYNONYM?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 02/10/2020 17:50, JoeJoe wrote:
On 30/09/2020 10:20, JohnP wrote:
On a Facebook site for a holiday venue someone was asking for a TV Repair
bloke. I mischievously said that TV faults are in two categories now:
Owner induced Setting Mistakes - or not worth repairing (commercially)
and
recalled the demise of the TV repair van.

I know DIY ers can replace power supply capacitors - but am I far from
the
truth?


Of course not. A top of the range 50" Samsung is just over £300.

You do talk daft. Yes you can get a 50" TV for close to that money, but
"top of the range" it won't be.

e.g.

https://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/tv-and...07064-pdt.html


How
much can a repairman charge for fixing it + parts to make it worthwhile?
Next to nothing.

So with a £300 TV it's beyond economic repair. With the top of the range
set linked above, they could easily charge £300.




--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 03/10/2020 11:47, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 03/10/2020 09:33, Andy Burns wrote:
JoeJoe wrote:

A top of the range 50" Samsung is just over £300.

If we give you +/- an inch, ao.com says you're between £100 and £1000
out ...

https://ao.com/l/tvs-samsung-49_inches--or--50_inches-43_inches_to_54_inches/1-6-57-91/107-108/?sort=aol_saleincvat

yes. a 42" is around that figure I believe

https://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/tv-and...06274-pdt.html


is a 50" at £349


They may be more than adequate for most people but its not the
technology they are pushing as top of the range at treble those prices.

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