I am using a Sky modem/router which generally gives quite good WiFi throughout the house even outside and in the garage. However in the kitchen there is one smart socket that seems to lose its WiFi connection on occasion and given time will usually re-establish a connection. However it has sometimes been down when we required it which meant waiting till it sorted itself out or manually reconnect it. So I am looking at a solution to make it more reliable. I am however confused about some of the hardware supposed to make the system work better and have a few questions for those in the know.

1. What is the difference between a wireless access point, a WiFi extender and a Mesh system?

2. Which of the above would give the me the best result, crucially without affecting the performance of other WiFi connected devices?

3. What is involved in the installation of each of the above such as connections and powering?

Incidentally, the smart socket is used to power some €œlanding€� lights along the edge of the driveway to help reversing in the dark, using a smart socket enables us to use the Alexa App to switch on/off the lights as required.

Richard

On 25/09/2020 16:43, Tricky Dicky wrote:
I am using a Sky modem/router which generally gives quite good WiFi throughout the house even outside and in the garage. However in the kitchen there is one smart socket that seems to lose its WiFi connection on occasion and given time will usually re-establish a connection. However it has sometimes been down when we required it which meant waiting till it sorted itself out or manually reconnect it. So I am looking at a solution to make it more reliable. I am however confused about some of the hardware supposed to make the system work better and have a few questions for those in the know.

1. What is the difference between a wireless access point, a WiFi extender and a Mesh system?

WAP generally takes ethernet and broadcasts wifi. Extender takes wifi
and broadcasts wifi. Mesh is the same but does it intelligently.

2. Which of the above would give the me the best result, crucially without affecting the performance of other WiFi connected devices?
probably WAP, if you have nearby ethernet

3. What is involved in the installation of each of the above such as connections and powering?
all need power. WAP needs ethernet

Incidentally, the smart socket is used to power some €œlanding€� lights along the edge of the driveway to help reversing in the dark, using a smart socket enables us to use the Alexa App to switch on/off the lights as required.

Richard



--
€œwhen things get difficult you just have to lie€�

€• Jean Claud Jüncker

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Tricky Dicky wrote:

What is involved in the installation of each of the above such as
connections and powering?

all need power. WAP needs ethernet

If required, power and ethernet can come over the same cable

On 25/09/2020 16:43, Tricky Dicky wrote:
I am using a Sky modem/router which generally gives quite good WiFi
throughout the house even outside and in the garage. However in the
kitchen there is one smart socket that seems to lose its WiFi
connection on occasion and given time will usually re-establish a
connection. However it has sometimes been down when we required it
which meant waiting till it sorted itself out or manually reconnect
it. So I am looking at a solution to make it more reliable. I am
however confused about some of the hardware supposed to make the
system work better and have a few questions for those in the know.

1. What is the difference between a wireless access point, a WiFi
extender and a Mesh system?

A wireless access point is the "base station" if you like - its what
allows wifi clients to join a network. There is one built into all wifi
routers, however you can get then as stand alone devices that can be
connected to a network via ethernet or a homeplug data over mains link.

A range extended is a kind if wifi repeater. Its intended to be placed
in an area of good signal, to then rebroadcast to an area with a poor
signal. Many only have the one radio, and so will have to swap between
the uplink and downlink devices, in effect halving the throughput.

A mash system is a collection of smart access points that can use
multiple paths to make a connection. So a wifi client may end up being
connected to the main router via a chain of access points using radio,
or cable, or (in some cases) homeplug connections. They usually have
more intelligent routing to maintain a dynamically updated map of the
best route between points. They will likely also have sophisticated wifi
capabilities like beam forming (to direct the connection in the
direction of the device being communicated with), and band steering (to
automatically nudge capable devices onto free channels / frequency
bands). The hardware normally has multiple radios, and also the
capability of maintaining multiple concurrent conversations (MiMo).


2. Which of the above would give the me the best result, crucially
without affecting the performance of other WiFi connected devices?

This may be one of the rare cases where a simple range extended would be
adequate. You would place it somewhere between the main router and the
smart socket.

3. What is involved in the installation of each of the above such as
connections and powering?

1) New device in the area with poor signal, then a cable or homeplug
link back to the main router. Configure the new WAP to use the same SSID
and passphrase as the existing network, and probably to configure a
different channel.

2) Join the extended to the network, then place somewhere that it can
get a decent signal, but is closer to the poor signal area.

3) Depends a bit on brand, but in many cases, power up one device -
connect to it with your phone and follow the prompts. Once the first
device is active, add further as required.




--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Friday, 25 September 2020 17:18:36 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 25/09/2020 16:43, Tricky Dicky wrote:
I am using a Sky modem/router which generally gives quite good WiFi throughout the house even outside and in the garage. However in the kitchen there is one smart socket that seems to lose its WiFi connection on occasion and given time will usually re-establish a connection. However it has sometimes been down when we required it which meant waiting till it sorted itself out or manually reconnect it. So I am looking at a solution to make it more reliable. I am however confused about some of the hardware supposed to make the system work better and have a few questions for those in the know.

1. What is the difference between a wireless access point, a WiFi extender and a Mesh system?

WAP generally takes ethernet and broadcasts wifi. Extender takes wifi
and broadcasts wifi. Mesh is the same but does it intelligently.

2. Which of the above would give the me the best result, crucially without affecting the performance of other WiFi connected devices?
probably WAP, if you have nearby ethernet

3. What is involved in the installation of each of the above such as connections and powering?
all need power. WAP needs ethernet

Incidentally, the smart socket is used to power some €œlanding€� lights along the edge of the driveway to help reversing in the dark, using a smart socket enables us to use the Alexa App to switch on/off the lights as required.

Richard



Quite a lot of range extenders can operate in either of two modes:

True range extension where the SSID, password, etc., are all supplied by the original Wifi.

And WAP (albeit arguably not true WAP), where they act like another network with different SSID and password.

I'm assuming that you aare referring to the net on the mains wiring as I do
not see the connection between wifi and the power socket. but many smart
sockets/plugs etc have a good crap remover in them to stop the net over the
mains signals scrambling the device, they all work using over the air
systems as far as I can tell. As those who know me will tell you, I am
leader of the unofficial kill all plug in internet adaptors society, they
cause so much interference and trouble.
What would I do? I'd switch the Sky router to modem mode and get a decent
router with proper aerials on it or at least places you can plug external
ones onto. Its often the return signal from the remote device that gives the
problem, so the best aerial you can get to receive on is going to work
best.
Brian

--
--
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Tricky Dicky" wrote in message
...
I am using a Sky modem/router which generally gives quite good WiFi
throughout the house even outside and in the garage. However in the kitchen
there is one smart socket that seems to lose its WiFi connection on occasion
and given time will usually re-establish a connection. However it has
sometimes been down when we required it which meant waiting till it sorted
itself out or manually reconnect it. So I am looking at a solution to make
it more reliable. I am however confused about some of the hardware supposed
to make the system work better and have a few questions for those in the
know.

1. What is the difference between a wireless access point, a WiFi extender
and a Mesh system?

2. Which of the above would give the me the best result, crucially without
affecting the performance of other WiFi connected devices?

3. What is involved in the installation of each of the above such as
connections and powering?

Incidentally, the smart socket is used to power some "landing" lights along
the edge of the driveway to help reversing in the dark, using a smart socket
enables us to use the Alexa App to switch on/off the lights as required.

Richard

On Friday, 25 September 2020 at 21:01:18 UTC+1, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
I'm assuming that you aare referring to the net on the mains wiring as I do
not see the connection between wifi and the power socket. but many smart
sockets/plugs etc have a good crap remover in them to stop the net over the
mains signals scrambling the device, they all work using over the air
systems as far as I can tell. As those who know me will tell you, I am
leader of the unofficial kill all plug in internet adaptors society, they
cause so much interference and trouble.
What would I do? I'd switch the Sky router to modem mode and get a decent
router with proper aerials on it or at least places you can plug external
ones onto. Its often the return signal from the remote device that gives the
problem, so the best aerial you can get to receive on is going to work
best.
Brian

--
--
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Tricky Dicky" wrote in message
...
I am using a Sky modem/router which generally gives quite good WiFi
throughout the house even outside and in the garage. However in the kitchen
there is one smart socket that seems to lose its WiFi connection on occasion
and given time will usually re-establish a connection. However it has
sometimes been down when we required it which meant waiting till it sorted
itself out or manually reconnect it. So I am looking at a solution to make
it more reliable. I am however confused about some of the hardware supposed
to make the system work better and have a few questions for those in the
know.

1. What is the difference between a wireless access point, a WiFi extender
and a Mesh system?

2. Which of the above would give the me the best result, crucially without
affecting the performance of other WiFi connected devices?

3. What is involved in the installation of each of the above such as
connections and powering?

Incidentally, the smart socket is used to power some "landing" lights along
the edge of the driveway to help reversing in the dark, using a smart socket
enables us to use the Alexa App to switch on/off the lights as required.

Richard

Thanks for all the useful advice. I think it will be a WAP and I am interested in the prospect of PoE as a CCTV system we are considering uses this for power and data transmission. Currently the wired part of my network consists of a single CAT 5e cable going to a 4 port switch that connects to a Web enabled TV and my grandsons Playstation. Since the Sky modem/router only has two ports and both are occupied one the Hive Hub and the previously mentioned cable it looks like I need another switch does that have to be a specific PoE enabled type or will any bog standard one suffice? The rest of the shopping list will be a PoE power injector and possibly a power splitter to power the switch. Any gotchas regards using PoE with legacy equipment?

Thanks again
Richard

On 25/09/2020 16:43, Tricky Dicky wrote:
I am using a Sky modem/router which generally gives quite good WiFi throughout the house even outside and in the garage. However in the kitchen

Try turning the microwave off.

Bill

On 25/09/2020 21:40, Tricky Dicky wrote:

Thanks for all the useful advice. I think it will be a WAP and I am
interested in the prospect of PoE as a CCTV system we are considering
uses this for power and data transmission. Currently the wired part
of my network consists of a single CAT 5e cable going to a 4 port
switch that connects to a Web enabled TV and my grandsons
Playstation. Since the Sky modem/router only has two ports and both
are occupied one the Hive Hub and the previously mentioned cable it
looks like I need another switch does that have to be a specific PoE
enabled type or will any bog standard one suffice? The rest of the
shopping list will be a PoE power injector and possibly a power
splitter to power the switch. Any gotchas regards using PoE with
legacy equipment?

You can get PoE injectors if you just need to power a single PoE
device[1], but if you need to do several, then a PoE switch is a better
bet.

There should not be any compatibility problems with older kit, since
unless its setup to use PoE, ethernet kit will not even "see" the
voltage on the wires since the sockets are magnetically isolated, and
the network bit is looking for a differential mode signal, so stray DC
has no effect.

Take a bit of care with the PoE standards supported if you plan to add
motorised CCTV cameras, since some of them will need the 802.3bt "4PPoE"
standard that can supply more power than the older spec versions.

[1] Note that there is some cheap kit out there that claims to use PoE
but is not actually using standard IEEE 802.3 PoE, and just comes with a
proprietary injector. That will likely not work with a real PoE feed.




--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Friday, 25 September 2020 at 23:32:17 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 25/09/2020 21:40, Tricky Dicky wrote:

Thanks for all the useful advice. I think it will be a WAP and I am
interested in the prospect of PoE as a CCTV system we are considering
uses this for power and data transmission. Currently the wired part
of my network consists of a single CAT 5e cable going to a 4 port
switch that connects to a Web enabled TV and my grandsons
Playstation. Since the Sky modem/router only has two ports and both
are occupied one the Hive Hub and the previously mentioned cable it
looks like I need another switch does that have to be a specific PoE
enabled type or will any bog standard one suffice? The rest of the
shopping list will be a PoE power injector and possibly a power
splitter to power the switch. Any gotchas regards using PoE with
legacy equipment?
You can get PoE injectors if you just need to power a single PoE
device[1], but if you need to do several, then a PoE switch is a better
bet.

There should not be any compatibility problems with older kit, since
unless its setup to use PoE, ethernet kit will not even "see" the
voltage on the wires since the sockets are magnetically isolated, and
the network bit is looking for a differential mode signal, so stray DC
has no effect.

Take a bit of care with the PoE standards supported if you plan to add
motorised CCTV cameras, since some of them will need the 802.3bt "4PPoE"
standard that can supply more power than the older spec versions.

[1] Note that there is some cheap kit out there that claims to use PoE
but is not actually using standard IEEE 802.3 PoE, and just comes with a
proprietary injector. That will likely not work with a real PoE feed.
--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Thanks John duly noted.

Richard

On Fri, 25 Sep 2020 23:32:12 +0100, John Rumm wrote:

Thanks for all the useful advice. I think it will be a WAP and I
am
interested in the prospect of PoE as a CCTV system we are
considering
uses this for power and data transmission.

Presumably with a recording device of some sort? "System" would that
be a complete plug 'n play package? ie the cameras connect to the DVR
directly?

If there are several cameras via a PoE switch to the DVR I'd be
tempted to have them as a physically seperate ethernet network and a
subnet that could be accessed from the "normal" wired/WiFi network.
Just to keep all that 24/7 traffic away from normal 'net/LAN use.
Makes it easier to plonk all the cameras into a/the DMZ if you want
them to be visible from the internet without potentialy exposeing
your LAN to the 'net.

You can get PoE injectors if you just need to power a single PoE
device[1], but if you need to do several, then a PoE switch is a better
bet.

Aye, each PoE device will need it's own PoE injector which will have
it's own wallwart PSU or be a wall wart itself. Using individual
injectors very rapidly becomes a rats nest of wires. A proper PoE
switch is the far better option but watch the power budget. Some may
have say 8 ports each capable of delivering 15 W (120 W just for the
PoE) but the switch PSU may only be rated to 60 W. Most PoE kit
doesn't take anything like 15 W so the apparent "under powered"
switch isn't a problem but worth being aware of.

There should not be any compatibility problems with older kit, since
unless its setup to use PoE, ethernet kit will not even "see" the
voltage on the wires since the sockets are magnetically isolated, and
the network bit is looking for a differential mode signal, so stray DC
has no effect.

And unless the kit on the end of the cable asks nicely for power the
48 V isn't present on the ethernet cable. IIRC there is a low
voltage/current limited "probe" pulse every few seconds.

Take a bit of care with the PoE standards supported if you plan to add
motorised CCTV cameras, since some of them will need the 802.3bt "4PPoE"
standard that can supply more power than the older spec versions.

Agreed. There are basically two methods of providing power an the
same cable as ethernet passive and active.

Passive just places a DC voltage across a couple of pairs in the
cable, no protection, the full voltage and current capabilty is there
all the time. Easy to forget when fault or cable tracing, cheap cable
testers object to this power... Ethernet devices *should* be OK but
the transformers are centre tapped so it's possible, if one wire of a
pair becomes disconnected, for that power to be applied across half
the tiny transformer. Passive "PoE" is best avoided.

Active. Various IEEE standards and some incompatable proprietary
systems. Looking at you Ubiquity. Some of their kit has a 24 V and
possibly passive system. I think they are now moving to proper IEEE
standards PoE. IEEE PoE is the safest, the devices have to have a
"conversation" before the full power is made avialable on the cable.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 25/09/2020 17:18, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 25/09/2020 16:43, Tricky Dicky wrote:
I am using a Sky modem/router which generally gives quite good WiFi
throughout the house even outside and in the garage. However in the
kitchen there is one smart socket that seems to lose its WiFi
connection on occasion and given time will usually re-establish a
connection. However it has sometimes been down when we required it
which meant waiting till it sorted itself out or manually reconnect
it. So I am looking at a solution to make it more reliable. I am
however confused about some of the hardware supposed to make the
system work better and have a few questions for those in the know.

1. What is the difference between a wireless access point, a WiFi
extender and a Mesh system?

WAP generally takes ethernet and broadcasts wifi. Extender takes wifi
and broadcasts wifi. Mesh is the same but does it intelligently.

You can buy cheap plug in devices that will do WAP or extender. Plug and
play they tend to be configured as Wifi extender by default - which is
easy to use but it may well rob you of half of your Wifi bandwidth since
it is Wifi in Wifi out. If you regularly cast things to the TV from
mobile device then you might have to go WAP (quite hard to configure by
following the incorrect Chinglish instructions) or Mesh.

Mesh has the advantage that all the nodes cooperate so you get full
bandwidth available everywhere and a bit of beam steering to clients
which always helps signal strength.

2. Which of the above would give the me the best result, crucially
without affecting the performance of other WiFi connected devices?
probably WAP, if you have nearby ethernet

3. What is involved in the installation of each of the above such as
connectionsÂ* and powering?
all need power. WAP needs ethernet

Incidentally, the smart socket is used to power some €œlanding€� lights
along the edge of the driveway to help reversing in the dark, using a
smart socket enables us to use the Alexa App to switch on/off the
lights as required.

Moving the smart socket to a slightly different location might make all
the difference if there is some local not spot in the kitchen. Stainless
steel splashback or white goods in the way of the signal for example.


--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On Fri, 25 Sep 2020 17:48:19 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:

snip

A mash system is a collection of smart access points that can use
multiple paths to make a connection. So a wifi client may end up being
connected to the main router via a chain of access points using radio,
or cable, or (in some cases) homeplug connections. They usually have
more intelligent routing to maintain a dynamically updated map of the
best route between points. They will likely also have sophisticated wifi
capabilities like beam forming (to direct the connection in the
direction of the device being communicated with), and band steering (to
automatically nudge capable devices onto free channels / frequency
bands). The hardware normally has multiple radios, and also the
capability of maintaining multiple concurrent conversations (MiMo).

snip

I believe you mentioned installing a Mesh system for a client recently
and I was interested to hear how that went and how they are getting on
with it?

I ask because whilst talking a mates wife though adding a new email
address I'd just added to their domain for her, she mentioned the
issues she suffers when moving along (rather than around, as their
house is long and narrow) their house.

The existing layout is the Router / AP in the lounge, another in the
kitchen, then another in the media room and then a Powerline link from
there to the au pairs room and Wifi from that. There is another in
their bedroom that covered most of the upstairs. All on the same SSD /
password, all on different channels.

She mentioned that sometimes her WiFi access is iffy and so she turns
her phone / tablet WiFi off and all is well again and I explained why.

So I think they might be someone who might appreciate a Mesh system
(as they are always walking up and down their long house with mobile
devices) and should also be able to afford it. ;-)

So all of the straight AP's are TP-Link jobbies, locally powered
(although they can be PoE) and connected by Cat5 back to the switch so
would they have to disable the AP in the router and Powerline devices
and replace them with Mesh AP's John, meaning they would need 5 off?

Cheers, T i m

On 2020-09-25 20:40:50 +0000, Tricky Dicky said:

the wired part of my network

I would look at extending the wired part - when we moved house I got an
electrician to run cat5e to all main rooms when he was renewing
electrical cables and it was an excellent descision and easy to do. I
also run an old router as a wifi point off ethernet in one room
upstairs to boost the wifi signal.

On 26/09/2020 11:03, T i m wrote:
On Fri, 25 Sep 2020 17:48:19 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:

snip

A mash system is a collection of smart access points that can use
multiple paths to make a connection. So a wifi client may end up being
connected to the main router via a chain of access points using radio,
or cable, or (in some cases) homeplug connections. They usually have
more intelligent routing to maintain a dynamically updated map of the
best route between points. They will likely also have sophisticated wifi
capabilities like beam forming (to direct the connection in the
direction of the device being communicated with), and band steering (to
automatically nudge capable devices onto free channels / frequency
bands). The hardware normally has multiple radios, and also the
capability of maintaining multiple concurrent conversations (MiMo).

snip

I believe you mentioned installing a Mesh system for a client recently
and I was interested to hear how that went and how they are getting on
with it?

So far so good... "installed" being a slightly loose term since I was
going to go to site to do it! I had the kit drop shipped there, and
talked him through the setup. (which was done with an app on his phone)

(this is a large modern property split over three storeys and also an
outbuilding. Being modern, presumably foil backed PB and insulation all
over the place. Needless to say he wanted coverage everywhere).

Now given this chap is not at all techy (but can follow instructions),
that all went surprisingly well. Initially we deployed three devices,
but then added another three. (in reality they probably only really
needed 4 or 5, but the particular device I wanted was only in packs of
three)

So far it has met all demands. The only glitch was after a few weeks of
non use when away, he returned to find it working everywhere apart from
his study (which is odd since that is where the "first" mesh device
connects to his router - so it was obviously still co-operating with all
the other kit, just not its own wifi). In the end power cycling the AP
there fixed that.

(note these are DECO hybrid mesh routers that combine dual band wifi and
homeplug data over mains)

I ask because whilst talking a mates wife though adding a new email
address I'd just added to their domain for her, she mentioned the
issues she suffers when moving along (rather than around, as their
house is long and narrow) their house.

The existing layout is the Router / AP in the lounge, another in the
kitchen, then another in the media room and then a Powerline link from
there to the au pairs room and Wifi from that. There is another in
their bedroom that covered most of the upstairs. All on the same SSD /
password, all on different channels.

She mentioned that sometimes her WiFi access is iffy and so she turns
her phone / tablet WiFi off and all is well again and I explained why.

Some devices seem very good (cough/apple/cough) at hanging onto a
connection for dear life and not roaming to the much stronger connection
that has become available, until the first becomes nearly completely
useable. Disconnect and reconnect and they connect to the better signal.
(sometimes, counter intuitively, setting lower Tx powers on the APs can
actually make roaming better since you end up with less overlap so "far"
APs drop out of range sooner)

So I think they might be someone who might appreciate a Mesh system
(as they are always walking up and down their long house with mobile
devices) and should also be able to afford it. ;-)

So all of the straight AP's are TP-Link jobbies, locally powered
(although they can be PoE) and connected by Cat5 back to the switch so
would they have to disable the AP in the router and Powerline devices
and replace them with Mesh AP's John, meaning they would need 5 off?

I disabled all the existing APs and Wifi provision in the router - since
it was all single band 2.4GHz, and none of that had capabilities beyond
802.11n. The new kit was all 802.11ac / WiFi 6 dual band etc. They also
had some powerline that was acting as back haul connections for the APs
they had on the first and second floors. So again we took that out of
service.

In the situation you describe, the CAT5E can still be used for back haul
between APs. You can then either use the existing homeplug if that is
required (or go for a hybrid mesh that includes it)

I think I would be tempted to start with three mesh devices, and add
more if required - you may find you get good enough coverage without
needing as many, since they have lots of new tricks they can deploy to
get better results.





--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Sat, 26 Sep 2020 13:59:48 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:

snip

I believe you mentioned installing a Mesh system for a client recently
and I was interested to hear how that went and how they are getting on
with it?

So far so good... "installed" being a slightly loose term since I was
going to go to site to do it! I had the kit drop shipped there, and
talked him through the setup. (which was done with an app on his phone)

;-)

(this is a large modern property split over three storeys and also an
outbuilding. Being modern, presumably foil backed PB and insulation all
over the place.

This was the issue with this site, nearly no signal in the bedroom
over the kitchen containing the AP.

Needless to say he wanted coverage everywhere).

Quite.

Now given this chap is not at all techy (but can follow instructions),
that all went surprisingly well. Initially we deployed three devices,
but then added another three. (in reality they probably only really
needed 4 or 5, but the particular device I wanted was only in packs of
three)

Ok.

So far it has met all demands. The only glitch was after a few weeks of
non use when away, he returned to find it working everywhere apart from
his study (which is odd since that is where the "first" mesh device
connects to his router - so it was obviously still co-operating with all
the other kit, just not its own wifi). In the end power cycling the AP
there fixed that.

It happens.

(note these are DECO hybrid mesh routers that combine dual band wifi and
homeplug data over mains)

Ok.

snip

She mentioned that sometimes her WiFi access is iffy and so she turns
her phone / tablet WiFi off and all is well again and I explained why.

Some devices seem very good (cough/apple/cough) at hanging onto a
connection for dear life and not roaming to the much stronger connection
that has become available, until the first becomes nearly completely
useable.

Yeah.

Disconnect and reconnect and they connect to the better signal.

Yup. I often have to reset the connection order on Windows PC's for
people who have more than one AP (might be possible on other OS's).

(sometimes, counter intuitively, setting lower Tx powers on the APs can
actually make roaming better since you end up with less overlap so "far"
APs drop out of range sooner)

Agreed, subject to other requirements, like wanting to use it in the
garden etc.

So I think they might be someone who might appreciate a Mesh system
(as they are always walking up and down their long house with mobile
devices) and should also be able to afford it. ;-)

So all of the straight AP's are TP-Link jobbies, locally powered
(although they can be PoE) and connected by Cat5 back to the switch so
would they have to disable the AP in the router and Powerline devices
and replace them with Mesh AP's John, meaning they would need 5 off?

I disabled all the existing APs and Wifi provision in the router - since
it was all single band 2.4GHz, and none of that had capabilities beyond
802.11n.

Ok, I'd have to check the range of stuff they have for the L.C.D.

The new kit was all 802.11ac / WiFi 6 dual band etc. They also
had some powerline that was acting as back haul connections for the APs
they had on the first and second floors. So again we took that out of
service.

In the situation you describe, the CAT5E can still be used for back haul
between APs.

I wasn't sure if that was still the preferred option or if these Mesh
devices did something clever that made such redundant.

required (or go for a hybrid mesh that includes it)

Ok.

I think I would be tempted to start with three mesh devices, and add
more if required -

I think one of the boys is currently in the au pair's quarters
(lockdown etc) so the chances are they *would* 'bother' with the best
option there also.;-)

you may find you get good enough coverage without
needing as many, since they have lots of new tricks they can deploy to
get better results.

As with your scenario, I think the issue here was (and especially
anything done in any rebuild / extension work) all the foil-backed
plasterboard and so compartmentalising the house and specifically
isolating the re-vamped au-pair area. [1]

They 'forgot' to run Cat5 in there. ;-(

Cheers, T i m

[1] There was also a strange thing where a powerline adaptor didn't
work in a 'new' socket in the hallway and whilst investigating it,
found some questionable wiring. ;-(

On 26/09/2020 16:17, T i m wrote:
On Sat, 26 Sep 2020 13:59:48 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:

snip

I believe you mentioned installing a Mesh system for a client recently
and I was interested to hear how that went and how they are getting on
with it?

So far so good... "installed" being a slightly loose term since I was
going to go to site to do it! I had the kit drop shipped there, and

I needed a "not" in there somewhere - but I guess you got the gist!

talked him through the setup. (which was done with an app on his phone)

;-)


She mentioned that sometimes her WiFi access is iffy and so she turns
her phone / tablet WiFi off and all is well again and I explained why.

Some devices seem very good (cough/apple/cough) at hanging onto a
connection for dear life and not roaming to the much stronger connection
that has become available, until the first becomes nearly completely
useable.

Yeah.

Some WAPs have an option to disconnect clients below a certain signal
level, which can help.

Disconnect and reconnect and they connect to the better signal.

Yup. I often have to reset the connection order on Windows PC's for
people who have more than one AP (might be possible on other OS's).

(sometimes, counter intuitively, setting lower Tx powers on the APs can
actually make roaming better since you end up with less overlap so "far"
APs drop out of range sooner)

Agreed, subject to other requirements, like wanting to use it in the
garden etc.

So I think they might be someone who might appreciate a Mesh system
(as they are always walking up and down their long house with mobile
devices) and should also be able to afford it. ;-)

So all of the straight AP's are TP-Link jobbies, locally powered
(although they can be PoE) and connected by Cat5 back to the switch so
would they have to disable the AP in the router and Powerline devices
and replace them with Mesh AP's John, meaning they would need 5 off?

I disabled all the existing APs and Wifi provision in the router - since
it was all single band 2.4GHz, and none of that had capabilities beyond
802.11n.

Ok, I'd have to check the range of stuff they have for the L.C.D.

The new kit was all 802.11ac / WiFi 6 dual band etc. They also
had some powerline that was acting as back haul connections for the APs
they had on the first and second floors. So again we took that out of
service.

In the situation you describe, the CAT5E can still be used for back haul
between APs.

I wasn't sure if that was still the preferred option or if these Mesh
devices did something clever that made such redundant.

Well mesh is designed to do away with the need for cable - however if
its there, it can usually use it. (its target customer is the one who
wants something that just works out of the box with no faff or
networking knowledge generally)




--
Cheers,

John.

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