On 07/09/2020 21:47, wrote:
On Monday, 7 September 2020 14:42:48 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 07/09/2020 11:45, tabbypurr wrote:
On Monday, 7 September 2020 11:35:46 UTC+1, Mike Clarke wrote:
On 06/09/2020 22:34, Grumps wrote:

So I have a really old Amstrad PC1512 with 20MB HDD. There
are files that I'd like to retrieve into a more modern
environment - Win10. The old PC has a 5 1/4" floppy, a serial
port, and a parallel port. The old PC also has Laplink
v3.00a.

Is there anything that'll run on a Win10 PC that is
compatible with Laplink? Laplink themselves just told me
(online chat) that the older machine has to be Win7 or later.
So DOS3.30 is out of the question then!

You might manage something with Kermit instead of laplink.
This provides transport-independent file-transfer software via
serial ports for a wide variety of hardware platforms.

A copy of MS-DOS Kermit on the Amstrad should be able to talk
to Kermit 95 running on Windows 10. Your challenge would be to
find some way of putting a downloaded copy of MS-DOS Kermit on
to a suitable floppy compatible with the Amstrad.

http://www.kermitproject.org/index.html
http://www.kermitproject.org/mskermit.html
http://www.kermitproject.org/k95.html

when I moved to pc years ago I found no software to read the
file format, and used a text extractor to get everything in plain
text. The source machine claimed to be able to convert its files
to pc format for export, but when time came to do so it turned
out it couldn't.

A PC1512 *is* a PC - very cheap and cost reduced in true Amstrad
style - but a PC none the less.

(not to be confused with the 8256 and 8512 Z80 CP/M based word
processors with their "odd" 3" disks, or the home computer CPC
range of machines)

I never played with the Amstrads. The CP/M Z80 I used had 2x 8"
floppies to run a whole network.

and probably 90kB of storage on each :-)

I also remember being mightily impressed with a 70M HDD. Couldn't
imagine ever filling all that space up. And later 10M networking -
what possible use was such wild speed?

I remember a certain feeling of buyers regret having splashed out for a
storage caddy that held 10x 5.25" floppies. I thought I might have
wasted my money since I could not imagine ever filling it up!


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 07/09/2020 19:58, mm0fmf wrote:
On 07/09/2020 13:12, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 07/09/2020 09:45, Andy Burns wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

But how do you get anything (kermit) ON to the PC 1512?

Ask nicely someone who's got a machine with a 5¼" floppy drive.
Who could then read thw 15i2 floppirs ANYWAY...?


PC1512 5¼" drives were standard IBM double sided 9 sector disks with
360kB capacity.


So?
My pint is that if he has compatible drives and a machine, why involve
the 1512 at all?


--
"I am inclined to tell the truth and dislike people who lie consistently.
This makes me unfit for the company of people of a Left persuasion, and
all women"

In article ,
No Name wrote:
Goodness me, apparently PCI-e cards with both serial ports and a printer
port exists!

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-Port-RS....c100005.m1851

So buy one of these for the modern PC if it has no serial or parallel ports.

You can get PCI equivalents....


I recently bought a new ATX MB. It still had a serial port on the MB - but
a Molex. Needed an adaptor to bring it out to the back panel as a DB9. But
didn't use up a PCIe slot.

Does anything still use parallel ports, other than old equipment?

--
*On the other hand, you have different fingers*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Tuesday, 8 September 2020 00:29:23 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 07/09/2020 21:47, tabbypurr wrote:

I never played with the Amstrads. The CP/M Z80 I used had 2x 8"
floppies to run a whole network.

and probably 90kB of storage on each :-)

400k each, so 0.8M disc space for the whole network.


I also remember being mightily impressed with a 70M HDD. Couldn't
imagine ever filling all that space up. And later 10M networking -
what possible use was such wild speed?

I remember a certain feeling of buyers regret having splashed out for a
storage caddy that held 10x 5.25" floppies. I thought I might have
wasted my money since I could not imagine ever filling it up!

lol

wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, 8 September 2020 00:29:23 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 07/09/2020 21:47, tabbypurr wrote:

I never played with the Amstrads. The CP/M Z80 I used had 2x 8"
floppies to run a whole network.

and probably 90kB of storage on each :-)

400k each, so 0.8M disc space for the whole network.


I also remember being mightily impressed with a 70M HDD. Couldn't
imagine ever filling all that space up. And later 10M networking -
what possible use was such wild speed?

I remember a certain feeling of buyers regret having splashed out for a
storage caddy that held 10x 5.25" floppies. I thought I might have
wasted my money since I could not imagine ever filling it up!

I bought my first computer, a Transam Wren (CP/M 3), in 1981.
https://www.old-computers.com/museum...asp?st=1&c=257

I decided I could afford the upgrade from 16 KB to 256 KB RAM, but the
optional 5 MB hard drive was just too expensive. I think the whole computer
cost about £1000 (1981 prices).

It was an all-in-one design, similar to a laptop in that the one box
contained keyboard, 2x 360 KB 5 1/4" floppies, 9" amber (monochrome) screen,
CPU/RAM and PSU. Oh, and a 1200/75 baud modem. It was bloody heavy - the
above site says 12 kg.

It came with an office suite: Perfect Writer/Calc/Filer which was not
WYSIWYG, so you had to embed formatting codes and hope that the printed
document was formatted as you wanted.

But it worked. I used it for writing my final-year project report at
university, printing to an Epson FX80 9-pin matrix printer, and I bought
Turbo Pascal which allowed me to write programs that ran a lot faster than
the BBC Basic that was supplied.

I later found some software (22DISK, probably) which could read the data
floppies on a DOS PC, so I was able to extract the files and preserve them
on something a bit more long-lasting (and widely-readable) than a
non-DOS-format floppy.

The Wren came with an interface socket for an external hard disc, so I built
myself an analogue-to-digital board and a digital-to-analogue board that
used that port to read/write. There was also a DIN socket for RGB monitor,
so I built myself a PAL encoder that could drive a TV with BNC or SCART for
colour composite video, and a simple resistor matrix to derive a luminance
signal for a sharper but monochrome image.

It still worked until a couple of year ago when I tried it and there was no
power to anywhere - and its PSU was proprietary and I couldn't find a
replacement, so it went to the tip.

On Tue, 08 Sep 2020 15:02:37 +0100, NY wrote:

It came with an office suite: Perfect Writer/Calc/Filer which was not
WYSIWYG, so you had to embed formatting codes and hope that the printed
document was formatted as you wanted.

I bought an Advance 86B in 1984. It too came with the Perfect suite.

The Writer (and indeed Calc) used Emacs default keystrokes.

Which is why, to this day, I use Emacs (and ed).

--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On 08/09/2020 08:07, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 07/09/2020 19:58, mm0fmf wrote:
On 07/09/2020 13:12, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 07/09/2020 09:45, Andy Burns wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

But how do you get anything (kermit) ON to the PC 1512?

Ask nicely someone who's got a machine with a 5¼" floppy drive.
Who could then read thw 15i2 floppirs ANYWAY...?


PC1512 5¼" drives were standard IBM double sided 9 sector disks with
360kB capacity.


So?
My pint is that if he has compatible drives and a machine, why involve
the 1512 at all?

Huh?

(I think your attributions are a bit cocked up)

The 1512 is the old dos machine he wants to get files from, and it has
5.25" drives, and a HDD that would be non trivial to mount in modern
machine.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 08/09/2020 10:20, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
No Name wrote:
Goodness me, apparently PCI-e cards with both serial ports and a printer
port exists!

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-Port-RS....c100005.m1851

So buy one of these for the modern PC if it has no serial or parallel ports.

You can get PCI equivalents....


I recently bought a new ATX MB. It still had a serial port on the MB - but
a Molex. Needed an adaptor to bring it out to the back panel as a DB9. But
didn't use up a PCIe slot.

Yup one com port as a header is still quite common IME.

Does anything still use parallel ports, other than old equipment?

old and perhaps specialist stuff like lab or process control kit.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 07/09/2020 15:15, John Rumm wrote:
On 07/09/2020 15:02, Grumps wrote:
On 07/09/2020 14:40, John Rumm wrote:
On 07/09/2020 14:34, John Rumm wrote:
On 07/09/2020 09:39, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 07/09/2020 09:36, Andy Burns wrote:
John Rumm wrote:

serial comms software on the old machine (like Telix /
QuickLink2), and something that can run ZModem on the modern one
(Like PuTTY, with the ExtraPutty add on that gives it Zmodem
compatibility). The just upload files from one, and download on
the other.

I can't remember if procomm/telix/etc can do a recursive copy of a
whole drive in one go, but kermit can ..

But how do you get anything (kermit) ON to the PC 1512?

One advantage of going the laplink option is that it allows remote
install so you run it on the new machine, then send it via the
serial link to the old one.

Here is the full procedure including links to download a suitable
version of laplink, and instructions for running the new end in
DOSBox rather than using a DOS boot image directly:

http://www.minuszerodegrees.net/tran...3/laplink3.htm

Thanks for that link. The old PC has Laplink already.

Easy then - you could even send that to the virtual new one using the
same process.

Well it nearly works.
I made a cable, DB25 to DB9 with the following pinout:

PC1512 Modern
2 TX RX 2
3 RX TX 3
4 RTS CTS 8
5 CTS RTS 7
6 DSR DTR 4
7 GND GND 5
20 DTR DSR 6

I can transfer text files just using "copy com1 file.txt" etc, and I can
nearly transfer binaries using copy /b - except it screws up part of the
way through at no particular point - about 5-6k in.

The PC1512 doesn't have mode.com so I'm changing com settings using ll3
(laplink).

When running laplink in dosbox on the modern PC (i7-6700k, mini-itx - so
no room to add PCIe cards, and I'm using a Prolific USB to RS232 cable),
dosbox becomes less responsive and I get RX overrun errors. Laplink
nearly works - on the PC1512 it shows the remote drive contents.

So, nearly but not quite.
Any thoughts on above?
Get a different USB to RS232 cable (not Prolific based)?

I've checked ALL other PCs (5) and laptops (4) here and NONE have a
serial port!

The PC1512 does have a C compiler and masm, so I might have to go that
route and write something myself.
Ah, sod it - no text editor. That leaves debug.com.

Grumps wrote:

I can nearly transfer binaries using copy /b - except it screws up part
of the way through at no particular point

either lack of flow control, or embedded EOF (ctrl-Z) characters in
binary files.

sod it - no text editor

edlin?

On 08/09/2020 22:04, Andy Burns wrote:
Grumps wrote:

I can nearly transfer binaries using copy /b - except it screws up
part of the way through at no particular point

either lack of flow control, or embedded EOF (ctrl-Z) characters in
binary files.

sod it - no text editor

edlin?


Nope.

Surely a ctrl-Z in a binary file should not upset things if you're doing
a binary copy?

But...
One of my old unused PCs has a serial port header, so...
Plugged in and now laplink connects to the old PC1512 and works like a
charm.

Was it worth it I ask.

On 08/09/2020 21:17, Grumps wrote:
On 07/09/2020 15:15, John Rumm wrote:
On 07/09/2020 15:02, Grumps wrote:
On 07/09/2020 14:40, John Rumm wrote:
On 07/09/2020 14:34, John Rumm wrote:
On 07/09/2020 09:39, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 07/09/2020 09:36, Andy Burns wrote:
John Rumm wrote:

serial comms software on the old machine (like Telix /
QuickLink2), and something that can run ZModem on the modern one
(Like PuTTY, with the ExtraPutty add on that gives it Zmodem
compatibility). The just upload files from one, and download on
the other.

I can't remember if procomm/telix/etc can do a recursive copy of
a whole drive in one go, but kermit can ..

But how do you get anything (kermit) ON to the PC 1512?

One advantage of going the laplink option is that it allows remote
install so you run it on the new machine, then send it via the
serial link to the old one.

Here is the full procedure including links to download a suitable
version of laplink, and instructions for running the new end in
DOSBox rather than using a DOS boot image directly:

http://www.minuszerodegrees.net/tran...3/laplink3.htm

Thanks for that link. The old PC has Laplink already.

Easy then - you could even send that to the virtual new one using the
same process.

Well it nearly works.
I made a cable, DB25 to DB9 with the following pinout:

PC1512Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Modern
Â* 2Â*Â*Â* TX RXÂ*Â*Â* 2
Â* 3Â*Â*Â* RX TXÂ*Â*Â* 3
Â* 4Â*Â* RTS CTSÂ*Â* 8
Â* 5Â*Â* CTS RTSÂ*Â* 7
Â* 6Â*Â* DSR DTRÂ*Â* 4
Â* 7Â*Â* GND GNDÂ*Â* 5
Â*20Â*Â* DTR DSRÂ*Â* 6

I can transfer text files just using "copy com1 file.txt" etc, and I can
nearly transfer binaries using copy /b - except it screws up part of the
way through at no particular point - about 5-6k in.

The PC BIOS serial port routines are notoriously unreliable since they
are polled and not interrupt driven. So while device style copies from
the command line like that work in theory, practice is a whole different
ball game!

(I recall offering (a long time ago ~1988) to knock up a quick utility
for someone to display the content of a binary serial data stream on
screen of a PC for debug / logging purposes. I learnt to my cost that
just opening the reading the com port device as a file in turbo pascal
did not work reliably and ended up having to drive to the trials site on
Salisbury plain MoD test site to go fix it! Soon found I had to ditch
all the BIOS int 14h code, and write my own interrupt handler for
reliable reception)

The PC1512 doesn't have mode.com so I'm changing com settings using ll3
(laplink).

With laplink you only normally need mode on a remote machine that does
not have laplink, then you can use it followed by a CTTY instruction to
receive the stub loaded.

When running laplink in dosbox on the modern PC (i7-6700k, mini-itx - so
no room to add PCIe cards, and I'm using a Prolific USB to RS232 cable),
dosbox becomes less responsive and I get RX overrun errors. Laplink
nearly works - on the PC1512 it shows the remote drive contents.

So, nearly but not quite.
Any thoughts on above?
Get a different USB to RS232 cable (not Prolific based)?

Prolific ones are supposed to be good - although there are a huge number
of ripoffs/clones about its hard to know what you actually have. So yup
worth trying others.

Check the options for selecting serial ports in dosbox.

Might also be worth trying VirtualBox (Oracle) on the new PC instead.

I've checked ALL other PCs (5) and laptops (4) here and NONE have a
serial port!

On the outside, or the motherboard? (many have the pinout on the
motherboard, but lack the cable and connector to bring it to the case)

The PC1512 does have a C compiler and masm, so I might have to go that
route and write something myself.

Ah, sod it - no text editor. That leaves debug.com.

What version of DOS is it running?

(not even edlin?)

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 08/09/2020 23:13, John Rumm wrote:
On 08/09/2020 21:17, Grumps wrote:
On 07/09/2020 15:15, John Rumm wrote:
On 07/09/2020 15:02, Grumps wrote:
On 07/09/2020 14:40, John Rumm wrote:
On 07/09/2020 14:34, John Rumm wrote:
On 07/09/2020 09:39, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 07/09/2020 09:36, Andy Burns wrote:
John Rumm wrote:

serial comms software on the old machine (like Telix /
QuickLink2), and something that can run ZModem on the modern
one (Like PuTTY, with the ExtraPutty add on that gives it
Zmodem compatibility). The just upload files from one, and
download on the other.

I can't remember if procomm/telix/etc can do a recursive copy of
a whole drive in one go, but kermit can ..

But how do you get anything (kermit) ON to the PC 1512?

One advantage of going the laplink option is that it allows remote
install so you run it on the new machine, then send it via the
serial link to the old one.

Here is the full procedure including links to download a suitable
version of laplink, and instructions for running the new end in
DOSBox rather than using a DOS boot image directly:

http://www.minuszerodegrees.net/tran...3/laplink3.htm

Thanks for that link. The old PC has Laplink already.

Easy then - you could even send that to the virtual new one using the
same process.

Well it nearly works.
I made a cable, DB25 to DB9 with the following pinout:

PC1512Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Modern
Â*Â* 2Â*Â*Â* TX RXÂ*Â*Â* 2
Â*Â* 3Â*Â*Â* RX TXÂ*Â*Â* 3
Â*Â* 4Â*Â* RTS CTSÂ*Â* 8
Â*Â* 5Â*Â* CTS RTSÂ*Â* 7
Â*Â* 6Â*Â* DSR DTRÂ*Â* 4
Â*Â* 7Â*Â* GND GNDÂ*Â* 5
Â*Â*20Â*Â* DTR DSRÂ*Â* 6

I can transfer text files just using "copy com1 file.txt" etc, and I
can nearly transfer binaries using copy /b - except it screws up part
of the way through at no particular point - about 5-6k in.

The PC BIOS serial port routines are notoriously unreliable since they
are polled and not interrupt driven. So while device style copies from
the command line like that work in theory, practice is a whole different
ball game!

(I recall offering (a long time ago ~1988) to knock up a quick utility
for someone to display the content of a binary serial data stream on
screen of a PC for debug / logging purposes. I learnt to my cost that
just opening the reading the com port device as a file in turbo pascal
did not work reliably and ended up having to drive to the trials site on
Salisbury plain MoD test site to go fix it! Soon found I had to ditch
all the BIOS int 14h code, and write my own interrupt handler for
reliable reception)

The PC1512 doesn't have mode.com so I'm changing com settings using
ll3 (laplink).

With laplink you only normally need mode on a remote machine that does
not have laplink, then you can use it followed by a CTTY instruction to
receive the stub loaded.

When running laplink in dosbox on the modern PC (i7-6700k, mini-itx -
so no room to add PCIe cards, and I'm using a Prolific USB to RS232
cable), dosbox becomes less responsive and I get RX overrun errors.
Laplink nearly works - on the PC1512 it shows the remote drive contents.

So, nearly but not quite.
Any thoughts on above?
Get a different USB to RS232 cable (not Prolific based)?

Prolific ones are supposed to be good - although there are a huge number
of ripoffs/clones about its hard to know what you actually have. So yup
worth trying others.

Check the options for selecting serial ports in dosbox.

Might also be worth trying VirtualBox (Oracle) on the new PC instead.

I've checked ALL other PCs (5) and laptops (4) here and NONE have a
serial port!

On the outside, or the motherboard? (many have the pinout on the
motherboard, but lack the cable and connector to bring it to the case)

The PC1512 does have a C compiler and masm, so I might have to go that
route and write something myself.

Ah, sod it - no text editor. That leaves debug.com.

What version of DOS is it running?

(not even edlin?)

It has WordStar!

So, dosbox on my i7 PC didn't work well enough. Rx overrun errors.

And after I found one of my old PCs did have an RS232 header on the
motherbaord, I found that dosbox on that PC (Win98) nearly worked except
the PC1512 laplink showed the remote folder structure as essentially
garbage!

But... Booting that Win98 PC straight to DOS and then running laplink
worked flawlessly.

I now have all of the PC1512 files retrieved and am wondering whether it
was really worth the effort.

Grumps wrote:
On 08/09/2020 22:04, Andy Burns wrote:
Grumps wrote:

I can nearly transfer binaries using copy /b - except it screws up
part of the way through at no particular point

either lack of flow control, or embedded EOF (ctrl-Z) characters in
binary files.

sod it - no text editor

edlin?


Nope.

Surely a ctrl-Z in a binary file should not upset things if you're doing
a binary copy?

But...
One of my old unused PCs has a serial port header, so...
Plugged in and now laplink connects to the old PC1512 and works like a
charm.

Was it worth it I ask.

The USB to serial adapters have decent-sized buffers in
them (bigger than a 16550), such that you should not lose
characters. You need to have RTS/CTS (HW) or XON-XOFF (SW)
for flow control, to make it all play nice. I still find,
with at least one USB dongle in the path, it isn't as smooth
as it could be.

And your wiring plan is probably intended to be a
"null modem cable", as you can't get two PCs to talk
to one another, unless the wires are flipped. I have
a cable right now, between the two PCs, and there
is a null modem adapter in the stack of adapter plugs
in the cabling chain. And like the example here, it
has "Null Modem" written in the plastic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Null_modem

Usually the USB ones with the 9 pin connector, have
"full" interfaces on them. If you buy a USB to TTL level
four wire serial port, those only have TX,RX,GND,+5 on
them, so no hardware flow control. You could try XON/XOFF
in that case (I don't know how binary transmission works
in that case though). With proper RTS/CTS, the data path
should be fully eight bit transparent. Especially if
you set the mode to 8N1 and not 7N1 or something :-)
You can still break it, using settings.

Paul

Grumps wrote:

Surely a ctrl-Z in a binary file should not upset things if you're doing
a binary copy?

you could check by doing a
copy /b con com1
at one end, and
copy /b com1 file.ext

at the other end
then typing stuff, including a ctrl-z

On Wednesday, 9 September 2020 09:32:24 UTC+1, Paul wrote:
Grumps wrote:
On 08/09/2020 22:04, Andy Burns wrote:
Grumps wrote:

I can nearly transfer binaries using copy /b - except it screws up
part of the way through at no particular point

either lack of flow control, or embedded EOF (ctrl-Z) characters in
binary files.

sod it - no text editor

edlin?


Nope.

Surely a ctrl-Z in a binary file should not upset things if you're doing
a binary copy?

But...
One of my old unused PCs has a serial port header, so...
Plugged in and now laplink connects to the old PC1512 and works like a
charm.

Was it worth it I ask.

The USB to serial adapters have decent-sized buffers in
them (bigger than a 16550), such that you should not lose
characters. You need to have RTS/CTS (HW) or XON-XOFF (SW)
for flow control, to make it all play nice. I still find,
with at least one USB dongle in the path, it isn't as smooth
as it could be.

And your wiring plan is probably intended to be a
"null modem cable", as you can't get two PCs to talk
to one another, unless the wires are flipped. I have
a cable right now, between the two PCs, and there
is a null modem adapter in the stack of adapter plugs
in the cabling chain. And like the example here, it
has "Null Modem" written in the plastic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Null_modem

Usually the USB ones with the 9 pin connector, have
"full" interfaces on them. If you buy a USB to TTL level
four wire serial port, those only have TX,RX,GND,+5 on
them, so no hardware flow control. You could try XON/XOFF
in that case (I don't know how binary transmission works
in that case though). With proper RTS/CTS, the data path
should be fully eight bit transparent. Especially if
you set the mode to 8N1 and not 7N1 or something :-)
You can still break it, using settings.

Paul

This one has RTS and CTS on the pin header. The other modem signals
are available on pads that do not have pins fitted as standard.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07TXVRQ7V

John

On 09/09/2020 08:59, Grumps wrote:
On 08/09/2020 23:13, John Rumm wrote:
On 08/09/2020 21:17, Grumps wrote:
On 07/09/2020 15:15, John Rumm wrote:
On 07/09/2020 15:02, Grumps wrote:
On 07/09/2020 14:40, John Rumm wrote:
On 07/09/2020 14:34, John Rumm wrote:
On 07/09/2020 09:39, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 07/09/2020 09:36, Andy Burns wrote:
John Rumm wrote:

serial comms software on the old machine (like Telix /
QuickLink2), and something that can run ZModem on the modern
one (Like PuTTY, with the ExtraPutty add on that gives it
Zmodem compatibility). The just upload files from one, and
download on the other.

I can't remember if procomm/telix/etc can do a recursive copy
of a whole drive in one go, but kermit can ..

But how do you get anything (kermit) ON to the PC 1512?

One advantage of going the laplink option is that it allows
remote install so you run it on the new machine, then send it via
the serial link to the old one.

Here is the full procedure including links to download a suitable
version of laplink, and instructions for running the new end in
DOSBox rather than using a DOS boot image directly:

http://www.minuszerodegrees.net/tran...3/laplink3.htm

Thanks for that link. The old PC has Laplink already.

Easy then - you could even send that to the virtual new one using
the same process.

Well it nearly works.
I made a cable, DB25 to DB9 with the following pinout:

PC1512Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Modern
Â*Â* 2Â*Â*Â* TX RXÂ*Â*Â* 2
Â*Â* 3Â*Â*Â* RX TXÂ*Â*Â* 3
Â*Â* 4Â*Â* RTS CTSÂ*Â* 8
Â*Â* 5Â*Â* CTS RTSÂ*Â* 7
Â*Â* 6Â*Â* DSR DTRÂ*Â* 4
Â*Â* 7Â*Â* GND GNDÂ*Â* 5
Â*Â*20Â*Â* DTR DSRÂ*Â* 6

I can transfer text files just using "copy com1 file.txt" etc, and I
can nearly transfer binaries using copy /b - except it screws up part
of the way through at no particular point - about 5-6k in.

The PC BIOS serial port routines are notoriously unreliable since they
are polled and not interrupt driven. So while device style copies from
the command line like that work in theory, practice is a whole
different ball game!

(I recall offering (a long time ago ~1988) to knock up a quick utility
for someone to display the content of a binary serial data stream on
screen of a PC for debug / logging purposes. I learnt to my cost that
just opening the reading the com port device as a file in turbo pascal
did not work reliably and ended up having to drive to the trials site
on Salisbury plain MoD test site to go fix it! Soon found I had to
ditch all the BIOS int 14h code, and write my own interrupt handler
for reliable reception)

The PC1512 doesn't have mode.com so I'm changing com settings using
ll3 (laplink).

With laplink you only normally need mode on a remote machine that does
not have laplink, then you can use it followed by a CTTY instruction
to receive the stub loaded.

When running laplink in dosbox on the modern PC (i7-6700k, mini-itx -
so no room to add PCIe cards, and I'm using a Prolific USB to RS232
cable), dosbox becomes less responsive and I get RX overrun errors.
Laplink nearly works - on the PC1512 it shows the remote drive contents.

So, nearly but not quite.
Any thoughts on above?
Get a different USB to RS232 cable (not Prolific based)?

Prolific ones are supposed to be good - although there are a huge
number of ripoffs/clones about its hard to know what you actually
have. So yup worth trying others.

Check the options for selecting serial ports in dosbox.

Might also be worth trying VirtualBox (Oracle) on the new PC instead.

I've checked ALL other PCs (5) and laptops (4) here and NONE have a
serial port!

On the outside, or the motherboard? (many have the pinout on the
motherboard, but lack the cable and connector to bring it to the case)

The PC1512 does have a C compiler and masm, so I might have to go
that route and write something myself.

Ah, sod it - no text editor. That leaves debug.com.

What version of DOS is it running?

(not even edlin?)

It has WordStar!

Oh yeah, that will do it! CTRL K rules!

So, dosbox on my i7 PC didn't work well enough. Rx overrun errors.

And after I found one of my old PCs did have an RS232 header on the
motherbaord, I found that dosbox on that PC (Win98) nearly worked except
the PC1512 laplink showed the remote folder structure as essentially
garbage!

But... Booting that Win98 PC straight to DOS and then running laplink
worked flawlessly.

I now have all of the PC1512 files retrieved and am wondering whether it
was really worth the effort.

Well better now and not need them, than some point in the future and
finding that they are irretrievable :-)

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 09/09/2020 09:32, Paul wrote:
Grumps wrote:
On 08/09/2020 22:04, Andy Burns wrote:
Grumps wrote:

I can nearly transfer binaries using copy /b - except it screws up
part of the way through at no particular point

either lack of flow control, or embedded EOF (ctrl-Z) characters in
binary files.

sod it - no text editor

edlin?


Nope.

Surely a ctrl-Z in a binary file should not upset things if you're
doing a binary copy?

But...
One of my old unused PCs has a serial port header, so...
Plugged in and now laplink connects to the old PC1512 and works like a
charm.

Was it worth it I ask.

The USB to serial adapters have decent-sized buffers in
them (bigger than a 16550), such that you should not lose
characters. You need to have RTS/CTS (HW) or XON-XOFF (SW)
for flow control, to make it all play nice. I still find,
with at least one USB dongle in the path, it isn't as smooth
as it could be.

There are quite a few additional layers of software in the setup here
though. Laplink etc will be banging (what it thinks is) the UART
hardware directly - which is fine under real DOS, and still ok under
Win95 style hardware virtualisation. However now you are translating
that up though a VM hypervisor, and VM host, Presumably some glue code
to migrate IO out of the VM to the "real" com hardware, and then on the
host that is mapped back into USB driver stack. In some ways it
surprising it works at all.

(not even sure if laplink of that era could take advantage of the fifo
of the 16450/16550 if it still thinks the hardware is an 8250 UART)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/