Damn

I have built a face-frame to replace the door/architrave of my boiler
cupboard. Got it silky smooth, primer, 3 layers of undercoat, got that
really smooth then affixed the frame to the cupboard.

Then the dreaded gloss (oil based, seems far superior to water based,
prefer the longer open time). I have many runs and sags despite
trying to lay on lightly and laying off each time it still ran when I
wasnt looking!

I am now faced with flatting this coat down and trying again, only now
the frame is attached to the cupboard it will be even harder to
sand!!!!

Read all the threads on rollers, brushes etc... anyone have any good
tips or ideas to share? I hate gloss and next house will be natural
wood!

Cheers

EC

"Eric Cartman" wrote in message
om...
Damn

I have built a face-frame to replace the door/architrave of my boiler
cupboard. Got it silky smooth, primer, 3 layers of undercoat, got that
really smooth then affixed the frame to the cupboard.

Then the dreaded gloss (oil based, seems far superior to water based,
prefer the longer open time). I have many runs and sags despite
trying to lay on lightly and laying off each time it still ran when I
wasnt looking!

I am now faced with flatting this coat down and trying again, only now
the frame is attached to the cupboard it will be even harder to
sand!!!!

Read all the threads on rollers, brushes etc... anyone have any good
tips or ideas to share? I hate gloss and next house will be natural
wood!

Cheers

EC

Sanding out runs in gloss can be a tricky business - the extra thickness of
the paint in the runs means that they take an age to dry properly - days,
weeks... A light touch going through a couple of grades is necessary IME,
and it can be worth doing it in a couple of attempts - take the top of the
run off, then leave the newly exposed (still soft) paint in the run to dry
for another day and go at it again. The problem seems to be that the
solvents have by now penetrated & slightly softened the previously dry paint
below, which means that the undercoat now starts to come off under the run,
spoiling that nice flat finish below.

All I can suggest is that this is an area where a really light painting
technique (more really thin coats than one or two thick ones) is essential,
and good trade paint is superior to cheaper consumer paints. I generally
use Leyland Trade or Johnstones, but have used Dulux Trade, Permaglaze, etc
with good results in the past.

We use eggshell in preference now, seems to give better, flatter results
(also doesn't require undercoat).

Laying on thinly and evenly with a gloss roller and then laying off lightly
with a decent brush has given me good results. I use a mini-roller designed
for paintng behind radiators, but with a foam gloss roller (Wickes do a pack
of 10 for a couple of quid). In between coats I remove the roller and wrap
it up tightly in cling film, which keeps it workable. This also works quite
well with brushes, saving the need for perpetual cleaning with white spirit.

If you do see a run or curtain developing, there's just too much paint on
that area, and you'll just need to keep going back to it and brushing it out
several times otherwise it'll keep coming back.

That's about it, really. For perfection, thin, thin thin coats and a decent
trade paint.


cheers
Richard

--
Richard Sampson

email me at
richard at olifant d-ot co do-t uk

"RichardS" noaccess@invalid wrote in message ...

That's about it, really. For perfection, thin, thin thin coats and a decent
trade paint.

Totally agree with the thin coats bit, and indeed I did try to lay on
thin but as I tried to do this I could see areas that were not being
covered by the gloss and so I added more paint - my downfall, I guess
it would have flowed out by itself.

I will leave it to dry for a week and then flat as you suggest and
then try the 'lay on with foam roller, lay off with brush' technique.

Love woodwork, hate paint


Cheers

EC

Is it possible to spray gloss?

It's just that I noticed the wood I accidentally over sprayed with
cellulose car paint looks better than the stuff painted in traditional
gloss...

Lee
--
To reply use lee.blaver and NTL world com

"Lee Blaver" wrote in message
...
Is it possible to spray gloss?

It's just that I noticed the wood I accidentally over sprayed with
cellulose car paint looks better than the stuff painted in traditional
gloss...

Lee


Yep!
http://www.diy-compressors.co.uk/spraying-painting.htm


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Lee Blaver wrote in message ...
Is it possible to spray gloss?

It's just that I noticed the wood I accidentally over sprayed with
cellulose car paint looks better than the stuff painted in traditional
gloss...


With the right spraying equipment, yes as house paint is sooo thick,
even after you have thinned it down. But it comes down to cost, all
the masking up you need to do if spraying in situ etc...

I would prefer to spray myself but can't warrant the price of buying
or hiring the equipment to do it!

EC

RichardS wrote:



That's about it, really. For perfection, thin, thin thin coats and a decent
trade paint.



For perfection, get spray cans of humbrol enamel from Ye Model Shoppe.

And use same color undercoat.

Its surprisngly controllable, and makes the best fisih of all.




cheers
Richard

--
Richard Sampson

email me at
richard at olifant d-ot co do-t uk

Eric Cartman wrote:

Lee Blaver wrote in message ...

Is it possible to spray gloss?

It's just that I noticed the wood I accidentally over sprayed with
cellulose car paint looks better than the stuff painted in traditional
gloss...



With the right spraying equipment, yes as house paint is sooo thick,
even after you have thinned it down. But it comes down to cost, all
the masking up you need to do if spraying in situ etc...

I would prefer to spray myself but can't warrant the price of buying
or hiring the equipment to do it!


Buy cans of spray on enamel. Just use a bit of card to mask as you go -
chuck it as soon as its wet tho or it will drip on teh walls.,




EC

Another question, once I have flatted my oil based gloss work will the
enamel go on straight over it or is there a chance it could react with
the gloss?

Cheers

EC

Lee Blaver wrote in message ...
Is it possible to spray gloss?

It's just that I noticed the wood I accidentally over sprayed with
cellulose car paint looks better than the stuff painted in traditional
gloss...

Lee

Beware, anything that gets accidentally oversprayed always looks
great. It's just the piece you intended spraying always turns into a
disaster! Such is life.

:-)

(Eric Cartman) wrote in message . com...
Another question, once I have flatted my oil based gloss work will the
enamel go on straight over it or is there a chance it could react with
the gloss?


Hi

Personally I'd want any gloss off. Enamel is very hard stuff, breaks
easily, and new gloss paint is soft, so not the best base for enamel.

I've had excellant results with enamel and car paint, but not put it
onto new gloss before. But I think whenever you use paint types that
werent designed to go together, and use them in apps they werent made
for, theres always going to be some risk of things not working out.

I'm hoping to try some acrylic (car) spray here in the hope it lasts
much much longer than trad gloss.

Regards, NT

On 28 Jul 2003 05:43:45 -0700, (Eric
Cartman) wrote:

"RichardS" noaccess@invalid wrote in message ...

That's about it, really. For perfection, thin, thin thin coats and a decent
trade paint.

Totally agree with the thin coats bit, and indeed I did try to lay on
thin but as I tried to do this I could see areas that were not being
covered by the gloss and so I added more paint - my downfall, I guess
it would have flowed out by itself.

You've answered your own question, I think. Think "thin" while
putting it on, and leave coverage to the accumulation of coats.

Julian

--
Julian Fowler
julian (at) bellevue-barn (dot) org (dot) uk

Eric Cartman wrote:

OK guys lots of votes on the spray enamel! I will get some for next
time, I have sprayed cars before so have more experience with spraying
than brushing anyway!

Just need to find a model shop now!



Watch out - its slow drying so tends to run more and dust has more
chance to stick.


Cheers

EC

Eric Cartman wrote:

Another question, once I have flatted my oil based gloss work will the
enamel go on straight over it or is there a chance it could react with
the gloss?

Cheers

EC


Test and try....

(N. Thornton) wrote in message om...
Personally I'd want any gloss off. Enamel is very hard stuff, breaks
easily, and new gloss paint is soft, so not the best base for enamel.

I hear what you are saying but I just aint got the heart to strip it
all down again now, especially as the frame is now firmly fixed
(biscuits and gripfill) to the wall, plus fresh new paint surrounding
it on the walls!

I've got a week or so until the gloss fully hardens so plenty of time
to mull over which way to go (shoot myself and end it all perhaps?)

Cheers

EC
..

"Eric Cartman" wrote in message
om...
(N. Thornton) wrote in message
om...
Personally I'd want any gloss off. Enamel is very hard stuff, breaks
easily, and new gloss paint is soft, so not the best base for enamel.

I hear what you are saying but I just aint got the heart to strip it
all down again now, especially as the frame is now firmly fixed
(biscuits and gripfill) to the wall, plus fresh new paint surrounding
it on the walls!

I've got a week or so until the gloss fully hardens so plenty of time
to mull over which way to go (shoot myself and end it all perhaps?)

Cheers

EC
.

Stick with the gloss for this one - try the roller. You need (more
expensive) celulose thinners for cleaning brushes for enamel anyway.

For sanding back, I'd do a little each day after the first couple of days
initial drying - shoudl speed up the drying of the layer below the top of
the highs (runs, curtains).

I'm a perfectionist with paintwork - a trait drummed into me by the chief
decorator (namely my mother) when I was still living there. You can get
perfectly good finishes with gloss, but as I say I've found a better,
flatter finish can be created with ease using eggshell.

cheers
Richard

--
Richard Sampson

email me at
richard at olifant d-ot co do-t uk

In message
(Eric Cartman) wrote:

OK guys lots of votes on the spray enamel! I will get some for next
time, I have sprayed cars before so have more experience with spraying
than brushing anyway!

Just need to find a model shop now!

Cheers

EC
You cannot spray cellulose or acrylic type car paints over oil or
emulsion paints, You will get a solvent reaction that causes
bubbling/lifting because the solvents are incompatible.

You'll have to stick with a synthetic oil finish.

Beware of paints called enamels, They are tough yes, but they may not be
compatible with your existing synthetic paint structure, They are often
Acrylic bases or even cellulose.

Steve.


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In message
(Eric Cartman) wrote:

Another question, once I have flatted my oil based gloss work will the
enamel go on straight over it or is there a chance it could react with
the gloss?

If the enamel is synthetic you'll not get a solvent reaction.

Steve.



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In message
(N. Thornton) wrote:

Personally I'd want any gloss off. Enamel is very hard stuff, breaks
easily, and new gloss paint is soft, so not the best base for enamel.

The term "Enamel" is often missleading.

Enamel means "hard glass like coating" but the term is also used to
describe a gloss finish that can be available in any paint form, Enamel
is used as just another name for a gloss, Albeit a hard or harder gloss.

An ordinary Cellulose car paint can be oven baked thus it becomes a
stove enamelled finish.

Tekaloid synthetic oil paint is also referred to as an enamel. There are
Cellulose enamels, Acrylic enamels, Specific stoving enamels like powder
coating, Synthetic enamels, Yacht enamels, Vitreous enamels.

Paint manufactures widely use the term "Enamel" to cash in on a better
more sellable paint product simply by calling it an enamel.


Steve.

--
Vehicle Painting Pointers: http://www.stephen.hull.btinternet.co.uk
Coach painting tips and techniques + Land Rover colour codes
StrongARM Powered Risc PC 600, 80Mb + 2MbVram, RISC OS 4
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