I have asked to look at the above, which sort of runs, but in treacle
mode. Takes forever to boot up, press a button and it will maybe
respond 5 minutes later.

It has Win10 installed on it, it seems to have a reasonable spec. I'm
wondering if there should be a recovery CD for it, or if anyone knows
where I could download from and burn a CD?

"Harry Bloomfield"; "Esq." wrote in
message ...
I have asked to look at the above, which sort of runs, but in treacle
mode. Takes forever to boot up, press a button and it will maybe respond 5
minutes later.

It has Win10 installed on it, it seems to have a reasonable spec. I'm
wondering if there should be a recovery CD for it, or if anyone knows
where I could download from and burn a CD?

https://support.lenovo.com/au/en/solutions/ht071861

On Wed, 4 Mar 2020 05:05:35 +1100, John_j, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

FLUSH senile asshole's troll****

Get the **** out of normally evolved humans' ngs, you 86-year-old,
nym-shifting, trolling, senile asshole!

--
Website (from 2007) dedicated to the 86-year-old trolling senile
cretin from Oz:
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/r...d-faq.2973853/

On 03/03/2020 17:55, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
I have asked to look at the above, which sort of runs, but in treacle
mode. Takes forever to boot up, press a button and it will maybe respond
5 minutes later.

It has Win10 installed on it, it seems to have a reasonable spec.* I'm
wondering if there should be a recovery CD for it, or if anyone knows
where I could download from and burn a CD?
Just download an ISO of win 10. I'd expect a machine of that vintage to
work without many extra drivers.

https://www.microsoft.com/eb-gb/soft...load/windows10

It'll still be slow though. How much RAM?

Chris Bartram formulated the question :
On 03/03/2020 17:55, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
I have asked to look at the above, which sort of runs, but in treacle mode.
Takes forever to boot up, press a button and it will maybe respond 5
minutes later.

It has Win10 installed on it, it seems to have a reasonable spec.* I'm
wondering if there should be a recovery CD for it, or if anyone knows where
I could download from and burn a CD?
Just download an ISO of win 10. I'd expect a machine of that vintage to work
without many extra drivers.

https://www.microsoft.com/eb-gb/soft...load/windows10

It'll still be slow though. How much RAM?

It seems to be reporting 4gb

It should not be that slow then, unless its got a disc full of crap.
Brian

--
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This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
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Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
Harry Bloomfield; "Esq." wrote in
message ...
Chris Bartram formulated the question :
On 03/03/2020 17:55, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
I have asked to look at the above, which sort of runs, but in treacle
mode. Takes forever to boot up, press a button and it will maybe respond
5 minutes later.

It has Win10 installed on it, it seems to have a reasonable spec. I'm
wondering if there should be a recovery CD for it, or if anyone knows
where I could download from and burn a CD?
Just download an ISO of win 10. I'd expect a machine of that vintage to
work without many extra drivers.

https://www.microsoft.com/eb-gb/soft...load/windows10

It'll still be slow though. How much RAM?

It seems to be reporting 4gb

on 03/03/2020, Brian Gaff (Sofa 2) supposed :
It should not be that slow then, unless its got a disc full of crap.

Difficult to tell, its so slow it doesn't allow you too investigate
what's on the HDD.

On 03/03/2020 20:46, Brian Gaff (Sofa 2) wrote:

It should not be that slow then,

Its going to be pretty dismal...

Its a dual core processor - probably no better than a 1/5th the speed of
a modern business spec desktop machine.

For example a comparison he

https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compar...K/m16086vs3941

unless its got a disc full of crap.

At that age the drive may well be ailing. It will have been slow even
when new.



--
Cheers,

John.

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\================================================= ================/

John Rumm wrote :
unless its got a disc full of crap.

At that age the drive may well be ailing. It will have been slow even when
new.

I am told it hasn't had much use since new. It was crawling to the
point of logging in, but I have managed to sort that out using a
rebuild from the hidden partition. Unfortunately it didn't do a restore
to factory and left the following rubbish in place and loading.

It loads various things when booting, including Premier Systems, Winzip
Driver and Webdiscover - grinding to almost an halt in the process. It
becomes so slow, it is impossible to use control panel to be able
remove them.

I seem unable to do a safe boot, or maybe I don't know how...

On Wednesday, 4 March 2020 11:39:58 UTC, John Rumm wrote:
On 03/03/2020 20:46, Brian Gaff (Sofa 2) wrote:

It should not be that slow then,

Its going to be pretty dismal...

Its a dual core processor - probably no better than a 1/5th the speed of
a modern business spec desktop machine.

For example a comparison he

https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compar...K/m16086vs3941

2 cores at 2.1GHz is more then enough for any sane OS.


unless its got a disc full of crap.

At that age the drive may well be ailing. It will have been slow even
when new.

might be. More likely a huge pile of crap loading down to unworkable.


NT

On 03/03/2020 19:29, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Chris Bartram formulated the question :
On 03/03/2020 17:55, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
I have asked to look at the above, which sort of runs, but in treacle
mode. Takes forever to boot up, press a button and it will maybe
respond 5 minutes later.

It has Win10 installed on it, it seems to have a reasonable spec.
I'm wondering if there should be a recovery CD for it, or if anyone
knows where I could download from and burn a CD?
Just download an ISO of win 10. I'd expect a machine of that vintage
to work without many extra drivers.

https://www.microsoft.com/eb-gb/soft...load/windows10

It'll still be slow though. How much RAM?

It seems to be reporting 4gb
Don't bother. It'll struggle. Slow processor, not enough RAM, probably a
5400rpm spinning rust drive.

On 03/03/2020 21:49, Chris Bartram wrote:
On 03/03/2020 19:29, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Chris Bartram formulated the question :
On 03/03/2020 17:55, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
I have asked to look at the above, which sort of runs, but in
treacle mode. Takes forever to boot up, press a button and it will
maybe respond 5 minutes later.

It has Win10 installed on it, it seems to have a reasonable spec.
I'm wondering if there should be a recovery CD for it, or if anyone
knows where I could download from and burn a CD?
Just download an ISO of win 10. I'd expect a machine of that vintage
to work without many extra drivers.

https://www.microsoft.com/eb-gb/soft...load/windows10

It'll still be slow though. How much RAM?

It seems to be reporting 4gb
Don't bother. It'll struggle. Slow processor, not enough RAM, probably a
5400rpm spinning rust drive.


Unfortunately I cannot find the web page I used to disable a lot of
Win10 eye candy features.

It did include deleting some of the pre-installed MS programs (or apps
as they like to call them now) Things like their news app which has an
animated icon and in reality is constantly trying to download news from
the internet in the background. There are few more apps like this which
may not be required.

There is a lot of graphic features that can be disabled in favour of
performance, especially on an older machine

It may also be worth running a cleaner/optimisation program such as
CCleaner (free trial)
https://www.ccleaner.com/ccleaner/download

Is there more than one real time virus checker running? If so they may
be fighting each other in that they are both constantly checking any
files each of the other checker may be creating. Win 10 comes with an
inbuilt virus checker but PC manufacturers are fond of bundeling another.
A second virus check could be put into manual mode and removed from the
startup list to see if it improves Win 10 performance.






--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

alan_m pretended :
Is there more than one real time virus checker running?

It looks as if there are two, but so slow its impossible to progress it
to a check..

If so they may be
fighting each other in that they are both constantly checking any files each
of the other checker may be creating. Win 10 comes with an inbuilt virus
checker but PC manufacturers are fond of bundeling another.
A second virus check could be put into manual mode and removed from the
startup list to see if it improves Win 10 performance.

If only I could get to the startup.

Harry Bloomfield, Esq. wrote:
I have asked to look at the above, which sort of runs, but in treacle
mode. Takes forever to boot up, press a button and it will maybe
respond 5 minutes later.

It has Win10 installed on it, it seems to have a reasonable spec.

It's a Celeron N2840 CPU and the whole laptop sold for 200 quid in 2014. It
has a cpubenchmark.net scope of 1000, compared to a decent modern laptop
score of 12000.

You can try, but I wouldn't expect much better than treacle.

Theo

Well it should be faster than mentioned though. One thing to watch out for
on these cheaper machines is a terribly small hard drive. This often means
that when you get a new version of windows as you do every 6 months or
sooner, there is just not enough space to actually properly install and
configure it. Its probably OK for simple word processing,email or browsing
text only sites using the new Chrome Edge.

Brian

--
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This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Theo" wrote in message
...
Harry Bloomfield, Esq. wrote:
I have asked to look at the above, which sort of runs, but in treacle
mode. Takes forever to boot up, press a button and it will maybe
respond 5 minutes later.

It has Win10 installed on it, it seems to have a reasonable spec.

It's a Celeron N2840 CPU and the whole laptop sold for 200 quid in 2014.
It
has a cpubenchmark.net scope of 1000, compared to a decent modern laptop
score of 12000.

You can try, but I wouldn't expect much better than treacle.

Theo

On 03/03/2020 17:55, Harry Bloomfield wrote:

I have asked to look at the above, which sort of runs, but in treacle
mode. Takes forever to boot up, press a button and it will maybe respond
5 minutes later.

There is a party trick I have seen some of these play where they
throttle back to a very low clock speed all the time. Going into the
BIOS and resetting to default BIOS settings will fix that one. (might
also be worth checking for BIOS upgrades while you are at it).

Having said that, its a slow machine to start with. About the only thing
you can do to make any real difference would be to clone the HDD onto a
SSD.

It has Win10 installed on it, it seems to have a reasonable spec.* I'm
wondering if there should be a recovery CD for it, or if anyone knows
where I could download from and burn a CD?

It will have a recovery partition. So you can recover to the supplied
image (which is unlikely to be Win 10).

Failing that you can download Win 10 from MS - just search for download
Win 10. That will get you the media creation tool which will either
upgrade the machine its being run on, or let you write a boot image to
USB or DVD.

For the utilities etc, there will likely be a tag number of some kind on
it that you may be able to use on the Lenovo web site to take you to the
right set of utilities.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

John Rumm formulated the question :
It will have a recovery partition. So you can recover to the supplied image
(which is unlikely to be Win 10).

I have managed to run the recovery utility and its faster initially
then gradually comes to a complete stop. It has a few unnecessary
things on it, which are grabbing memory and CPU, but I have been unable
to stop or delete them so far.

On 03/03/2020 19:34, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
John Rumm formulated the question :
It will have a recovery partition. So you can recover to the supplied
image (which is unlikely to be Win 10).

I have managed to run the recovery utility and its faster initially then
gradually comes to a complete stop. It has a few unnecessary things on
it, which are grabbing memory and CPU, but I have been unable to stop or
delete them so far.
before you go mad, use the SMART disk utilities (HDtune) to see if the
disk is, in fact, failing.



--
The biggest threat to humanity comes from socialism, which has utterly
diverted our attention away from what really matters to our existential
survival, to indulging in navel gazing and faux moral investigations
into what the world ought to be, whilst we fail utterly to deal with
what it actually is.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 03/03/2020 19:34, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
John Rumm formulated the question :
It will have a recovery partition. So you can recover to the supplied
image (which is unlikely to be Win 10).

I have managed to run the recovery utility and its faster initially then
gradually comes to a complete stop. It has a few unnecessary things on
it, which are grabbing memory and CPU, but I have been unable to stop or
delete them so far.
before you go mad, use the SMART disk utilities (HDtune) to see if the
disk is, in fact, failing.

That wouldnt normally produce that very long delay for a keystroke to
happen.

On Wed, 4 Mar 2020 07:14:36 +1100, John_j, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:


That wouldn¢t normally produce that very long delay for a keystroke to
happen.

Would be interesting to learn how MANY people are wishing for you senile
swine to succumb to a stroke finally, senile Rodent!

--
Kerr-Mudd,John addressing senile Rot:
"Auto-contradictor Rod is back! (in the KF)"
MID:

On Tuesday, March 3, 2020 at 7:06:52 PM UTC, John Rumm wrote:
On 03/03/2020 17:55, Harry Bloomfield wrote:

I have asked to look at the above, which sort of runs, but in treacle
mode. Takes forever to boot up, press a button and it will maybe respond
5 minutes later.

There is a party trick I have seen some of these play where they
throttle back to a very low clock speed all the time. Going into the
BIOS and resetting to default BIOS settings will fix that one. (might
also be worth checking for BIOS upgrades while you are at it).

Having said that, its a slow machine to start with. About the only thing
you can do to make any real difference would be to clone the HDD onto a
SSD.

It has Win10 installed on it, it seems to have a reasonable spec.Â* I'm
wondering if there should be a recovery CD for it, or if anyone knows
where I could download from and burn a CD?

It will have a recovery partition. So you can recover to the supplied
image (which is unlikely to be Win 10).

Failing that you can download Win 10 from MS - just search for download
Win 10. That will get you the media creation tool which will either
upgrade the machine its being run on, or let you write a boot image to
USB or DVD.

For the utilities etc, there will likely be a tag number of some kind on
it that you may be able to use on the Lenovo web site to take you to the
right set of utilities.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Why do machines with fast multi-core processors end up being unbearably slow? The reasons must be known and easily fixable.

On 12/03/2020 08:06, John wrote:

Why do machines with fast multi-core processors end up being
unbearably slow? The reasons must be known and easily fixable.

Depends a bit on what timescale you are talking about...

With older machines of the Core2duo era, the experience is frequently
pretty poor these days even if working at peak performance, simply
because the world of software has moved on. OS and Applications sizes
(and hence load times) and memory usage have increased vastly in the
last ten years or more. So disk performance has a big impact on
perceived speed of the machine, and old HDDs are going to suffer a
disproportionate hit. If because of the larger memory footprint you also
start paging sooner, you get a further big hit in performance. In more
recent times much software has gone 64 bit, and that again makes for
larger application sizes and in many cases memory use as well.

Increasing the RAM, and changing to a SSD can help greatly, but will not
necessarily fix all ills since CPU grunt is required for some things
that modern software expects to be able to do.

Modern usage is far more dependant on internet access speed - so poor
performance there will have a much bigger impact on system usability
than in the past.

Web content is also orders of magnitude larger than in the past - so the
memory and processing requirements for handling web pages has increased
in many cases to anything from 10x to 1000x what they were.

All that assumes the machine is running just what you want. Even modern
spec machines will slow if loaded with enough malware.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Not malware exactly more demoware when you buy them these days. The first
thing any new user should do is strip it back to the core stuff, then
install what they want.

It is, however very wasteful, modern ways of creating software, with huge
runtimes, loads of graphics and lots of redundant routines in from
different programming environments that folk use to make their software. Its
no wonder that much of it is only partly accessible.
Brian

--
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This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"John Rumm" wrote in message
o.uk...
On 12/03/2020 08:06, John wrote:

Why do machines with fast multi-core processors end up being
unbearably slow? The reasons must be known and easily fixable.

Depends a bit on what timescale you are talking about...

With older machines of the Core2duo era, the experience is frequently
pretty poor these days even if working at peak performance, simply because
the world of software has moved on. OS and Applications sizes (and hence
load times) and memory usage have increased vastly in the last ten years
or more. So disk performance has a big impact on perceived speed of the
machine, and old HDDs are going to suffer a disproportionate hit. If
because of the larger memory footprint you also start paging sooner, you
get a further big hit in performance. In more recent times much software
has gone 64 bit, and that again makes for larger application sizes and in
many cases memory use as well.

Increasing the RAM, and changing to a SSD can help greatly, but will not
necessarily fix all ills since CPU grunt is required for some things that
modern software expects to be able to do.

Modern usage is far more dependant on internet access speed - so poor
performance there will have a much bigger impact on system usability than
in the past.

Web content is also orders of magnitude larger than in the past - so the
memory and processing requirements for handling web pages has increased in
many cases to anything from 10x to 1000x what they were.

All that assumes the machine is running just what you want. Even modern
spec machines will slow if loaded with enough malware.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Thursday, 12 March 2020 19:37:15 UTC, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
Not malware exactly more demoware when you buy them these days.

that is malware

The first
thing any new user should do is strip it back to the core stuff, then
install what they want.

It is, however very wasteful, modern ways of creating software, with huge
runtimes, loads of graphics and lots of redundant routines in from
different programming environments that folk use to make their software. Its
no wonder that much of it is only partly accessible.
Brian

Use msconfig to prevent apps starting up at boot time. It's an insane practice to run all apps all the time. A SSD rather than HDD can make a huge difference - just keep the hdd for user data. Restart firefox etc frequently, it's a huge ram hog.


NT

"John" wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, March 3, 2020 at 7:06:52 PM UTC, John Rumm wrote:
On 03/03/2020 17:55, Harry Bloomfield wrote:

I have asked to look at the above, which sort of runs, but in treacle
mode. Takes forever to boot up, press a button and it will maybe
respond
5 minutes later.

There is a party trick I have seen some of these play where they
throttle back to a very low clock speed all the time. Going into the
BIOS and resetting to default BIOS settings will fix that one. (might
also be worth checking for BIOS upgrades while you are at it).

Having said that, its a slow machine to start with. About the only thing
you can do to make any real difference would be to clone the HDD onto a
SSD.

It has Win10 installed on it, it seems to have a reasonable spec. I'm
wondering if there should be a recovery CD for it, or if anyone knows
where I could download from and burn a CD?

It will have a recovery partition. So you can recover to the supplied
image (which is unlikely to be Win 10).

Failing that you can download Win 10 from MS - just search for download
Win 10. That will get you the media creation tool which will either
upgrade the machine its being run on, or let you write a boot image to
USB or DVD.

For the utilities etc, there will likely be a tag number of some kind on
it that you may be able to use on the Lenovo web site to take you to the
right set of utilities.

Why do machines with fast multi-core processors end up being unbearably
slow?

Mostly something program wise thrashing around
in the background using up lots of cpu resources.

The reasons must be known

Yes they are.

and easily fixable.

Can be a bit less easy with the worst of it when
you cant even run decent diagnostics because what
is thrashing around using up all the cpu resources
means that you cant even run the diagnostic and
they dont necessarily show up on the task manager.

On Fri, 13 Mar 2020 04:41:33 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH senile asshole's troll****

04:41??? Is it that time again, you trolling piece of ****? LOL

--
Website (from 2007) dedicated to the 86-year-old trolling senile
cretin from Oz:
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/r...d-faq.2973853/

John wrote:
On Tuesday, March 3, 2020 at 7:06:52 PM UTC, John Rumm wrote:
On 03/03/2020 17:55, Harry Bloomfield wrote:

I have asked to look at the above, which sort of runs, but in treacle
mode. Takes forever to boot up, press a button and it will maybe respond
5 minutes later.
There is a party trick I have seen some of these play where they
throttle back to a very low clock speed all the time. Going into the
BIOS and resetting to default BIOS settings will fix that one. (might
also be worth checking for BIOS upgrades while you are at it).

Having said that, its a slow machine to start with. About the only thing
you can do to make any real difference would be to clone the HDD onto a
SSD.

It has Win10 installed on it, it seems to have a reasonable spec. I'm
wondering if there should be a recovery CD for it, or if anyone knows
where I could download from and burn a CD?
It will have a recovery partition. So you can recover to the supplied
image (which is unlikely to be Win 10).

Failing that you can download Win 10 from MS - just search for download
Win 10. That will get you the media creation tool which will either
upgrade the machine its being run on, or let you write a boot image to
USB or DVD.

For the utilities etc, there will likely be a tag number of some kind on
it that you may be able to use on the Lenovo web site to take you to the
right set of utilities.

--
Cheers,

John.

Why do machines with fast multi-core processors end up being unbearably slow?
The reasons must be known and easily fixable.

Run a copy of Process Monitor and find out.

On occasion, I've seen *10,000* registry accesses per second. They
repeat at 1 second intervals, some of these things. Even when the
registry is cached in RAM, this can't be good.

These have *nothing* to do with what you see on the screen.
Think of this as a "tax" you pay for modernity.

You don't really know how "busy" these newer OSes are, until you
look under the hood.

*******

Let's look at the B50-30

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Lenovo....123805.0.html

Processor Intel Celeron N2815 $107 tray price
Bay Trail 2 Core (no hyperthreading), 1.86GHz
Likely thermally limited. If no fan is present, will throttle.

Memory: 2048 MB (up to DDR3L 1066, OK)

"55.86%: Such a bad rating is rare. There exist hardly any notebooks,
which are rated worse." === notebookcheck rating

https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us...-2-13-ghz.html

Cache = 1MB ("I'm not dead yet"...) # Only an issue when running 7ZIP compression
# Doesn't say what the L1 uses, which could be an issue
Max # of Memory Channels 2 # Means the memory bus is not gimped!
# This is important for snappy graphics
# (like if you unplug a DIMM)

Processor Graphics = "Intel HD Graphics for Intel Atom Processor Z3700 Series"
This is a 4 E.U. GPU as the built-in graphics.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silvermont

Scroll down the list here for Execution Units, and see just how low this is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ocessing_units

8,10,12,24 The above is pretty low, but only needs to be able to
composite graphics windows into system memory (as the GPU
has no memory of its own). Only games would be horribly gimped.

What of Bay Trail. Well, you're in luck, as it's the first
generation of Atom to get "out-of-order (OoO) execution". The Atom
processors before this generation, were in-order execution, which
means in effect that the max number of instructions retired per
clock would be a lot lower. In-order execution means the instructions
are serialized, with more stalls.

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013...-architecture/

In-order execution was selected for the other ones, in the belief that
this would reduce power consumption. Which it probably did.

In the text here, you can see that Atom wasn't "pure" in-order. It
dabbled a bit in OoO. But only a bit.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/2493/8

The concern is, does the next one claimed to be OoO also cheat ?
That's the $107 question.

You could run a bench on this device and find out. Let's just look some
up. Single threaded operation is used for a lot of everyday tasks, so
we'll use that. Now, I have a 2C 2T (no hyperthreading processor) too,
that I'm typing this on, so we can compare to that for fun.

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.html

N2815 1.86GHz (plus turbo) Passmark CPUMark = 455 2C 2T
E8400 3.00GHz (no turbo!) Passmark CPUMark = 1218 2C 2T

Even though my CPU is 50% faster on clock, it's pretty close to 3X faster.
That means the IPC is about 2X better.

And more modern processors with the same clock range, would be
that much better again on IPC improvements (because they'd
include Hyperthreading for 30% more, plus be able to
retire more instructions per clock and have fewer bottlenecks).
Hyperthreading varies from -5% to +30% or so, and in some
cases, it can actually be better to turn it off in the BIOS.
Especially if the OS process scheduler is "defective" in some way.

I would need to downclock my E8400 quite a bit, to pull neck and
neck with the N2815. So low in fact, I might even be below the
recommended spec for Windows 10.

I have a single core laptop, running Windows 10, and it's no
wonder pony either. The Passmark on that one is

AMD V120 2.2Ghz (no turbo, single core) Passmark CPUMark = 665 1C 1T

and it's still 50% better. Mine is a single core, which means
the N2815 is ahead of it (some I/O can run on one core, while
a calc runs on the other core, for example).

I put an SSD drive in the laptop, and well, that's a joke. It
boots faster, but after that, it's a wash. The chipset is
only SATA II.

You could disable Windows Defender and get some of the
performance back. But is it worth doing that ? You decide.
Windows maintenance functions will not run on all cores,
and the maintenance is limited to using fewer cores so
something is left for the user. There is Windows Defender
and there is Search Indexer, wasting performance that could
be used reading the newspaper.

My laptop is also not running 1909 at the moment, and is
using an older version of Windows 10. You can also rip
Windows Update out of it, as an option. What fun. There's
a lot of fun to be had. Between TrustedInstaller and wuauserv,
they waste a lot of cycles during updates. Even checking for
updates wastes cycles.

Which is better, an unpatched, exploit-riddled older OS
that runs at a decent speed, or a bloated over-patched
modern OS ? Good question. How lucky do you feel ?
For best results, Windows 7 is recommended, just so
there is a choice amongst web browsers. And there's
DXVA2 so the movie decoder works. (This assumes the 4 E.U.
graphics *has* accelerated movie decoding.)

I'm surprised they charge $107 for that processor. Of course,
they charge $350 for some laptop processors, and we pay a
rather large premium for such things.

Paul

On Saturday, 14 March 2020 03:24:28 UTC, Paul wrote:
John wrote:
On Tuesday, March 3, 2020 at 7:06:52 PM UTC, John Rumm wrote:
On 03/03/2020 17:55, Harry Bloomfield wrote:

I have asked to look at the above, which sort of runs, but in treacle
mode. Takes forever to boot up, press a button and it will maybe respond
5 minutes later.
There is a party trick I have seen some of these play where they
throttle back to a very low clock speed all the time. Going into the
BIOS and resetting to default BIOS settings will fix that one. (might
also be worth checking for BIOS upgrades while you are at it).

Having said that, its a slow machine to start with. About the only thing
you can do to make any real difference would be to clone the HDD onto a
SSD.

It has Win10 installed on it, it seems to have a reasonable spec. I'm
wondering if there should be a recovery CD for it, or if anyone knows
where I could download from and burn a CD?
It will have a recovery partition. So you can recover to the supplied
image (which is unlikely to be Win 10).

Failing that you can download Win 10 from MS - just search for download
Win 10. That will get you the media creation tool which will either
upgrade the machine its being run on, or let you write a boot image to
USB or DVD.

For the utilities etc, there will likely be a tag number of some kind on
it that you may be able to use on the Lenovo web site to take you to the
right set of utilities.

--
Cheers,

John.

Why do machines with fast multi-core processors end up being unbearably slow?
The reasons must be known and easily fixable.

Run a copy of Process Monitor and find out.

On occasion, I've seen *10,000* registry accesses per second. They
repeat at 1 second intervals, some of these things. Even when the
registry is cached in RAM, this can't be good.

These have *nothing* to do with what you see on the screen.
Think of this as a "tax" you pay for modernity.

You don't really know how "busy" these newer OSes are, until you
look under the hood.

*******

Let's look at the B50-30

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Lenovo....123805.0.html

Processor Intel Celeron N2815 $107 tray price
Bay Trail 2 Core (no hyperthreading), 1.86GHz
Likely thermally limited. If no fan is present, will throttle.

Memory: 2048 MB (up to DDR3L 1066, OK)

"55.86%: Such a bad rating is rare. There exist hardly any notebooks,
which are rated worse." === notebookcheck rating

https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us...-2-13-ghz.html

Cache = 1MB ("I'm not dead yet"...) # Only an issue when running 7ZIP compression
# Doesn't say what the L1 uses, which could be an issue
Max # of Memory Channels 2 # Means the memory bus is not gimped!
# This is important for snappy graphics
# (like if you unplug a DIMM)

Processor Graphics = "Intel HD Graphics for Intel Atom Processor Z3700 Series"
This is a 4 E.U. GPU as the built-in graphics.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silvermont

Scroll down the list here for Execution Units, and see just how low this is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ocessing_units

8,10,12,24 The above is pretty low, but only needs to be able to
composite graphics windows into system memory (as the GPU
has no memory of its own). Only games would be horribly gimped.

What of Bay Trail. Well, you're in luck, as it's the first
generation of Atom to get "out-of-order (OoO) execution". The Atom
processors before this generation, were in-order execution, which
means in effect that the max number of instructions retired per
clock would be a lot lower. In-order execution means the instructions
are serialized, with more stalls.

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013...-architecture/

In-order execution was selected for the other ones, in the belief that
this would reduce power consumption. Which it probably did.

In the text here, you can see that Atom wasn't "pure" in-order. It
dabbled a bit in OoO. But only a bit.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/2493/8

The concern is, does the next one claimed to be OoO also cheat ?
That's the $107 question.

You could run a bench on this device and find out. Let's just look some
up. Single threaded operation is used for a lot of everyday tasks, so
we'll use that. Now, I have a 2C 2T (no hyperthreading processor) too,
that I'm typing this on, so we can compare to that for fun.

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.html

N2815 1.86GHz (plus turbo) Passmark CPUMark = 455 2C 2T
E8400 3.00GHz (no turbo!) Passmark CPUMark = 1218 2C 2T

Even though my CPU is 50% faster on clock, it's pretty close to 3X faster.
That means the IPC is about 2X better.

And more modern processors with the same clock range, would be
that much better again on IPC improvements (because they'd
include Hyperthreading for 30% more, plus be able to
retire more instructions per clock and have fewer bottlenecks).
Hyperthreading varies from -5% to +30% or so, and in some
cases, it can actually be better to turn it off in the BIOS.
Especially if the OS process scheduler is "defective" in some way.

I would need to downclock my E8400 quite a bit, to pull neck and
neck with the N2815. So low in fact, I might even be below the
recommended spec for Windows 10.

I have a single core laptop, running Windows 10, and it's no
wonder pony either. The Passmark on that one is

AMD V120 2.2Ghz (no turbo, single core) Passmark CPUMark = 665 1C 1T

and it's still 50% better. Mine is a single core, which means
the N2815 is ahead of it (some I/O can run on one core, while
a calc runs on the other core, for example).

I put an SSD drive in the laptop, and well, that's a joke. It
boots faster, but after that, it's a wash. The chipset is
only SATA II.

You could disable Windows Defender and get some of the
performance back. But is it worth doing that ? You decide.
Windows maintenance functions will not run on all cores,
and the maintenance is limited to using fewer cores so
something is left for the user. There is Windows Defender
and there is Search Indexer, wasting performance that could
be used reading the newspaper.

My laptop is also not running 1909 at the moment, and is
using an older version of Windows 10. You can also rip
Windows Update out of it, as an option. What fun. There's
a lot of fun to be had. Between TrustedInstaller and wuauserv,
they waste a lot of cycles during updates. Even checking for
updates wastes cycles.

Which is better, an unpatched, exploit-riddled older OS
that runs at a decent speed, or a bloated over-patched
modern OS ? Good question. How lucky do you feel ?
For best results, Windows 7 is recommended, just so
there is a choice amongst web browsers. And there's
DXVA2 so the movie decoder works. (This assumes the 4 E.U.
graphics *has* accelerated movie decoding.)

I'm surprised they charge $107 for that processor. Of course,
they charge $350 for some laptop processors, and we pay a
rather large premium for such things.

Paul

In summary yes there's faster hardware. But the choice between
Which is better, an unpatched, exploit-riddled older OS
that runs at a decent speed, or a bloated over-patched
modern OS ? Good question. How lucky do you feel ?
is a false one. Such hardware has no speed issue running a suitable linux.


NT

Paul wrote:

Let's look at the B50-30
Â*Â* Celeron
^^^^^^^^ klaxxon

Â*Â* 2048 MB
^^^^^^^ klaxxon

If it came pre installed often its hidden in a secret partition on the
drive.
Have you been able to look what crapware is running at start up? Can it run
in safe mode or whatever Microsoft call it this week?
Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
Harry Bloomfield; "Esq." wrote in
message ...
I have asked to look at the above, which sort of runs, but in treacle mode.
Takes forever to boot up, press a button and it will maybe respond 5
minutes later.

It has Win10 installed on it, it seems to have a reasonable spec. I'm
wondering if there should be a recovery CD for it, or if anyone knows
where I could download from and burn a CD?

Brian Gaff (Sofa 2) wrote :
If it came pre installed often its hidden in a secret partition on the drive.
Have you been able to look what crapware is running at start up? Can it run
in safe mode or whatever Microsoft call it this week?

I have failed so far to get it to boot in the safe boot mode.

On Tuesday, 3 March 2020 17:55:43 UTC, wrote:
I have asked to look at the above, which sort of runs, but in treacle
mode. Takes forever to boot up, press a button and it will maybe
respond 5 minutes later.

It has Win10 installed on it, it seems to have a reasonable spec. I'm
wondering if there should be a recovery CD for it, or if anyone knows
where I could download from and burn a CD?

Have the Lenovo drivers, etc., been installed? Probably needs Lenovo Vantage installed to do that properly. The process of finding and installing updates usually works fine. It can make a huge difference.

On Tue, 03 Mar 2020 17:55:29 GMT, Harry Bloomfield, Esq.
wrote:

I have asked to look at the above, which sort of runs, but in treacle
mode. Takes forever to boot up, press a button and it will maybe
respond 5 minutes later.

It has Win10 installed on it, it seems to have a reasonable spec. I'm
wondering if there should be a recovery CD for it, or if anyone knows
where I could download from and burn a CD?

Before you go there, have you checked to see if there is more than one
AV program? Or anything else that looks 'iffy'?

A good experiment in these cases is to boot a Linux DVD / USB and just
check to see if the machine runs 'normally' (=as expected for the
spec).

If it does (and I'm *not* advocating installing Linux instead of
Windows here g) then you could try creating an additional user,
logging out of the std user and logging back in as the new user and
seeing if anything has changed. If it has (if it's faster / as
expected) then the chances are it's something to do with the std user.

If it's not it's likely to be a system problem and depending on how
much data and how many 'licensed programs are on there, you may try to
fix that installation or just do a fresh one.

A std W10 install disk would probably be fine on that and the W10
Media Creation Tool and a 4G USB stick is all you need.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-gb/...allation-media

You can use the tool to create the image on another W7+ PC (you just
need to tell it that's what you are doing) and away you go.

If it's already running W10 it should re-authenticate itself
automatically when you go online.

It might be worth checking what version of W10 (Home / Pro, 32/64 bit)
before you re-install (System, General tab).

Cheers, T i m

On Tuesday, 3 March 2020 23:07:42 UTC, T i m wrote:
On Tue, 03 Mar 2020 17:55:29 GMT, Harry Bloomfield, Esq.
wrote:

I have asked to look at the above, which sort of runs, but in treacle
mode. Takes forever to boot up, press a button and it will maybe
respond 5 minutes later.

It has Win10 installed on it, it seems to have a reasonable spec. I'm
wondering if there should be a recovery CD for it, or if anyone knows
where I could download from and burn a CD?

Before you go there, have you checked to see if there is more than one
AV program? Or anything else that looks 'iffy'?

A good experiment in these cases is to boot a Linux DVD / USB and just
check to see if the machine runs 'normally' (=as expected for the
spec).

If it does (and I'm *not* advocating installing Linux instead of
Windows here g) then you could try creating an additional user,
logging out of the std user and logging back in as the new user and
seeing if anything has changed. If it has (if it's faster / as
expected) then the chances are it's something to do with the std user.

If it's not it's likely to be a system problem and depending on how
much data and how many 'licensed programs are on there, you may try to
fix that installation or just do a fresh one.

A std W10 install disk would probably be fine on that and the W10
Media Creation Tool and a 4G USB stick is all you need.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-gb/...allation-media

You can use the tool to create the image on another W7+ PC (you just
need to tell it that's what you are doing) and away you go.

If it's already running W10 it should re-authenticate itself
automatically when you go online.

It might be worth checking what version of W10 (Home / Pro, 32/64 bit)
before you re-install (System, General tab).

Cheers, T i m

Having spoken with Lenovo support, they advise that at least on some models, you should not use the default Microsoft installer - but should download a version from Lenovo. I have no idea what specific differences there are - but they did say that installing standard and then applying Lenovo updates does NOT have the same effect. (Could have been utter BS. But they were adamant.)

On Wed, 4 Mar 2020 03:04:21 -0800 (PST), polygonum_on_google
wrote:

snip

A std W10 install disk would probably be fine on that and the W10
Media Creation Tool and a 4G USB stick is all you need.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-gb/...allation-media

You can use the tool to create the image on another W7+ PC (you just
need to tell it that's what you are doing) and away you go.

snip

Having spoken with Lenovo support, they advise that at least on some models, you should not use the default Microsoft installer - but should download a version from Lenovo. I have no idea what specific differences there are - but they did say that installing standard and then applying Lenovo updates does NOT have the same effect. (Could have been utter BS. But they were adamant.)

If such a thing exists then I agree, it's probably worth going that
route.

That said, I've installed the std MS W10 on a few Thinkpads and they
have all worked fine. This makes sense in that most components and
parts in most laptops / PC's are fairly generic, apart from the BIOS
or when they have 'locked parts in' etc (like WiFi cards).

I wonder if it's because they want you to install their spyware. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On Wednesday, 4 March 2020 11:21:19 UTC, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 4 Mar 2020 03:04:21 -0800 (PST), polygonum_on_google
wrote:

snip

A std W10 install disk would probably be fine on that and the W10
Media Creation Tool and a 4G USB stick is all you need.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-gb/...allation-media

You can use the tool to create the image on another W7+ PC (you just
need to tell it that's what you are doing) and away you go.

snip

Having spoken with Lenovo support, they advise that at least on some models, you should not use the default Microsoft installer - but should download a version from Lenovo. I have no idea what specific differences there are - but they did say that installing standard and then applying Lenovo updates does NOT have the same effect. (Could have been utter BS. But they were adamant.)

If such a thing exists then I agree, it's probably worth going that
route.

That said, I've installed the std MS W10 on a few Thinkpads and they
have all worked fine. This makes sense in that most components and
parts in most laptops / PC's are fairly generic, apart from the BIOS
or when they have 'locked parts in' etc (like WiFi cards).

I wonder if it's because they want you to install their spyware. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

We did see some issues that seemed to resolve by rebuilding from their versions. (Sorry, can't remember the details.) On the basis that you probably install some Lenovo drivers anwyway, they could probably shove their spyware in at that stage!

On Tuesday, 3 March 2020 17:55:43 UTC, wrote:
I have asked to look at the above, which sort of runs, but in treacle
mode. Takes forever to boot up, press a button and it will maybe
respond 5 minutes later.

It has Win10 installed on it, it seems to have a reasonable spec. I'm
wondering if there should be a recovery CD for it, or if anyone knows
where I could download from and burn a CD?

First thing I'd do is boot it from a lightweight linux distro cd. Running from cd slows any OS down a lot, but not to the extent you describe. If it works that way, as I expect it will, wipe the hdd and install a suitable OS eg a lightweight linux. If you must go windows try an older lighter version.. The problem is most likely malware, so a disc format & reinstall of win10 might be enough, maybe.

And for a joke suggestion, win98 runs real fast on modern hardware IT takes assorted tweaks just to get it to work.


NT

On 03/03/2020 17:55, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
I have asked to look at the above, which sort of runs, but in treacle
mode. Takes forever to boot up, press a button and it will maybe respond
5 minutes later.

[...]

That can be caused by a failing HDD.

TW

Have problems with Linux Mint in booting and occasionally freezing on booting. Upgraded to Linux Mint Tricia, now all appears solved.