Motherboards used them over a decade ago, so why do I still find leaking electrolytics in TVs? https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/...herboard-line?

On 09/02/2020 11:41:25, Commander Kinsey wrote:
Motherboards used them over a decade ago, so why do I still find leaking
electrolytics in TVs?
https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/...herboard-line?


Cost.

Commander Kinsey wrote:
Motherboards used them over a decade ago, so why do I still find leaking
electrolytics in TVs?
https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/...herboard-line?


They're polymer capacitors (polymer takes place of liquid electrolyte)
and are used selectively in equipment. See the second picture down on
the right, for a typical appearance. They lack pressure relief seams.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polymer_capacitor

After the "capacitor plague", where poorly made (bad pH value) electrolyte
was used to make some capacitors, some motherboard makers sought to "distance
themselves" from electrolytics. The slightly different shape of the
polymer capacitors was a "see, ma, no leaky cans" kinda thing. It
was a visual distinction, intended to fool/convince buyers that
they had nothing to fear. Before that introduction, polymer caps
were already being used on video cards. They were more popular
there. They're probably also a bit more expensive.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague

In the retail motherboard business, the customers see what's
on the motherboard. You have to market to appearances.

In your TV set, the components are not exposed in the same way.
Marketing consists of "look, thin bezels", or "now with built
in spyware". No mention is made of what corners are cut
in the power supply section. If you look at LCD monitors and
the power board in there, the absolute cheapest manufacturing
is used for the power board (sorta the equivalent of what you'd
find in a $20 ATX PSU).

There is nothing wrong with electrolytic capacitors if they're
made properly. Consequently, just because you find a cap
with a pressure relief pattern embossed in the top of the
cap, is no reason to panic.

It's hard to say whether any scumbag is still making caps
using that stolen/incorrect electrolyte formula.

And as to "why do people continue to do bad things",
it's a calculus. "Will I be executed or put in jail?"
That's the question they have to ask themselves every day.

"22 May 2019 Ozone layer: Banned CFCs traced to China say scientists"

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-48353341

Paul

Cost.

Commander Kinsey wrote

Motherboards used them over a decade ago, so why do I still find leaking
electrolytics in TVs?

Cost.

https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/...herboard-line?

On Sun, 09 Feb 2020 11:41:25 -0000, Birdbrain Macaw (aka "Commander Kinsey",
"James Wilkinson", "Steven ******","Bruce Farquar", "Fred Johnson, etc.),
the pathological resident idiot and attention whore of all the uk ngs,
blathered again:

FLUSH the sociopathic attention whore's latest attention-baiting sick
bull**** unread again

--
about Birdbrain Macaw's (now "James Wilkinson" LOL)
trolling:
"He is a well known attention seeking troll and every reply you
make feeds him.
Starts many threads most of which die quick as on the UK groups anyone
with sense Kill filed him ages ago which is why he now cross posts to
the US groups for a new audience.
This thread was unusual in that it derived and continued without him
to a large extent and his silly questioning is an attempt to get
noticed again."
MID:

--
ItsJoanNotJoann addressing Birdbrain Macaw's (now "James Wilkinson" LOL):
"You're an annoying troll and I'm done with you and your
stupidity."
MID:

--
AndyW addressing Birdbrain:
"Troll or idiot?...
You have been presented with a viewpoint with information, reasoning,
historical cases, citations and references to back it up and wilfully
ignore all going back to your idea which has no supporting information."
MID:

--
Phil Lee adressing Birdbrain Macaw:
"You are too stupid to be wasting oxygen."
MID:

--
Phil Lee describing Birdbrain Macaw:
"I've never seen such misplaced pride in being a ****ing moronic motorist."
MID:

--
Tony944 addressing Birdbrain Macaw:
"I seen and heard many people but you are on top of list being first class
ass hole jerk. ...You fit under unconditional Idiot and should be put in
mental institution.
MID:

--
Pelican to Birdbrain Macaw:
"Ok. I'm persuaded . You are an idiot."
MID:

--
DerbyDad03 addressing Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson" LOL):
"Frigging Idiot. Get the hell out of my thread."
MID:

--
Kerr Mudd-John about Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson" LOL):
"It's like arguing with a demented frog."
MID:

--
Mr Pounder Esquire about Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson" LOL):
"the **** poor delivery boy with no hot running water, 11 cats and
several parrots living in his hovel."
MID:

--
Rob Morley about Birdbrain:
"He's a perennial idiot"
MID: 20170519215057.56a1f1d4@Mars

--
JoeyDee to Birdbrain
"I apologize for thinking you were a jerk. You're just someone with an IQ
lower than your age, and I accept that as a reason for your comments."
MID: l-september.org

--
Sam Plusnet about Birdbrain (now "James Wilkinson Sword" LOL):
"He's just desperate to be noticed. Any attention will do, no matter how
negative it may be."
MID:

--
asking Birdbrain:
"What, were you dropped on your head as a child?"
MID:

--
Christie addressing endlessly driveling Birdbrain Macaw (now "James
Wilkinson" LOL):
"What are you resurrecting that old post of mine for? It's from last
month some time. You're like a dog who's just dug up an old bone they
hid in the garden until they were ready to have another go at it."
MID:

--
Mr Pounder's fitting description of Birdbrain Macaw:
"You are a well known fool, a tosser, a pillock, a stupid unemployable
sponging failure who will always live alone and will die alone. You will not
be missed."
MID:

--
Richard to pathetic ****** Hucker:
"You haven't bred?
Only useful thing you've done in your pathetic existence."
MID:

--
about Birdbrain (now "James Wilkinson" LOL):
""not the sharpest knife in the drawer"'s parents sure made a serious
mistake having him born alive -- A total waste of oxygen, food, space,
and bandwidth."
MID:

--
Mr Pounder exposing sociopathic Birdbrain:
"You will always be a lonely sociopath living in a ******** with no hot
running water with loads of stinking cats and a few parrots."
MID:

--
francis about Birdbrain (now "James Wilkinson" LOL):
"He seems to have a reputation as someone of limited intelligence"
MID:

--
Peter Moylan about Birdbrain (now "James Wilkinson" LOL):
"If people like JWS didn't exist, we would have to find some other way to
explain the concept of "invincible ignorance"."
MID:

--
Lewis about nym-shifting Birdbrain:
"Typical narcissist troll, thinks his **** is so grand he has the right to
try to force it on everyone."
MID:

On Sun, 9 Feb 2020 11:55:15 +0000, Fredxx, the notorious, troll-feeding,
senile asshole, blathered again:


Cost.

Troll, you troll-feeding senile idiot!

On Sun, 09 Feb 2020 07:59:37 -0500, Paul, another miserable, troll-feeding,
senile idiot, blathered:


They're polymer capacitors (polymer takes place of liquid electrolyte)

FLUSH

ALL his posts are TROLLS, poor senile idiot! Any your "reply" was a total
waste. Just wait and see! BG

On Sun, 09 Feb 2020 13:44:19 -0000, Rod Speed wrote:

Cost.

Commander Kinsey wrote

Motherboards used them over a decade ago, so why do I still find leaking
electrolytics in TVs?

Cost.

https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/...herboard-line?

I tried to find the cheapest normal and solid capacitors on Ebay, as an example 270uf, 16V:
Normal: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/123940375447
Solid: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/361349708743
£3.94 for normal, £3.83 for solid, so pretty much the same price.
Sizing also almost equal: 12x9mm vs 12x8mm (the solid ones are slightly smaller)

On Sun, 09 Feb 2020 12:59:37 -0000, Paul wrote:

Commander Kinsey wrote:
Motherboards used them over a decade ago, so why do I still find leaking
electrolytics in TVs?
https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/...herboard-line?


They're polymer capacitors (polymer takes place of liquid electrolyte)
and are used selectively in equipment. See the second picture down on
the right, for a typical appearance. They lack pressure relief seams.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polymer_capacitor

After the "capacitor plague", where poorly made (bad pH value) electrolyte
was used to make some capacitors, some motherboard makers sought to "distance
themselves" from electrolytics. The slightly different shape of the
polymer capacitors was a "see, ma, no leaky cans" kinda thing. It
was a visual distinction, intended to fool/convince buyers that
they had nothing to fear. Before that introduction, polymer caps
were already being used on video cards. They were more popular
there. They're probably also a bit more expensive.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague

In the retail motherboard business, the customers see what's
on the motherboard. You have to market to appearances.

In your TV set, the components are not exposed in the same way.
Marketing consists of "look, thin bezels", or "now with built
in spyware". No mention is made of what corners are cut
in the power supply section. If you look at LCD monitors and
the power board in there, the absolute cheapest manufacturing
is used for the power board (sorta the equivalent of what you'd
find in a $20 ATX PSU).

There is nothing wrong with electrolytic capacitors if they're
made properly. Consequently, just because you find a cap
with a pressure relief pattern embossed in the top of the
cap, is no reason to panic.

It's hard to say whether any scumbag is still making caps
using that stolen/incorrect electrolyte formula.

And as to "why do people continue to do bad things",
it's a calculus. "Will I be executed or put in jail?"
That's the question they have to ask themselves every day.

"22 May 2019 Ozone layer: Banned CFCs traced to China say scientists"

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-48353341

I've repaired many TVs from big manufacturers all with leaking capacitors. It's clear that they all wear out after a while, especially in hot environments.

And cost and size is not a problem, they're pretty much the same:

I tried to find the cheapest normal and solid capacitors on Ebay, as an example 270uf, 16V:
Normal: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/123940375447
Solid: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/361349708743
£3.94 for normal, £3.83 for solid, so pretty much the same price.
Sizing also almost equal: 12x9mm vs 12x8mm (the solid ones are slightly smaller)

On Sun, 09 Feb 2020 11:55:15 -0000, Fredxx wrote:

On 09/02/2020 11:41:25, Commander Kinsey wrote:
Motherboards used them over a decade ago, so why do I still find leaking
electrolytics in TVs?
https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/...herboard-line?


Cost.

I tried to find the cheapest normal and solid capacitors on Ebay, as an example 270uf, 16V:
Normal: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/123940375447
Solid: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/361349708743
£3.94 for normal, £3.83 for solid, so pretty much the same price.
Sizing also almost equal: 12x9mm vs 12x8mm (the solid ones are slightly smaller)

On Mon, 10 Feb 2020 00:44:19 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the sleepless senile cretin's latest troll****

00:44 ???? ROTFLOL!!! And you got up ALREADY, yet AGAIN, just so you could
continue with your senile trolling without too long a break, poor lonely
psycho?

Is your unbearable loneliness not letting you "sleep in" again, you
clinically insane senile troll?

--
Sqwertz to Rot Speed:
"This is just a hunch, but I'm betting you're kinda an argumentative
asshole.
MID:

"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
newsp.0fp4psoiwdg98l@glass...
On Sun, 09 Feb 2020 13:44:19 -0000, Rod Speed
wrote:

Cost.

Commander Kinsey wrote

Motherboards used them over a decade ago, so why do I still find leaking
electrolytics in TVs?

Cost.

https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/...herboard-line?

I tried to find the cheapest normal and solid capacitors on Ebay, as an
example 270uf, 16V:
Normal: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/123940375447
Solid: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/361349708743
£3.94 for normal, £3.83 for solid, so pretty much the same price.

That's not the prices that manufacturers pay,

Try alibaba.

Sizing also almost equal: 12x9mm vs 12x8mm (the solid ones are slightly
smaller)

On Sun, 09 Feb 2020 15:34:37 -0000, Rod Speed wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
newsp.0fp4psoiwdg98l@glass...
On Sun, 09 Feb 2020 13:44:19 -0000, Rod Speed
wrote:

Cost.

Commander Kinsey wrote

Motherboards used them over a decade ago, so why do I still find leaking
electrolytics in TVs?

Cost.

https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/...herboard-line?

I tried to find the cheapest normal and solid capacitors on Ebay, as an
example 270uf, 16V:
Normal: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/123940375447
Solid: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/361349708743
£3.94 for normal, £3.83 for solid, so pretty much the same price.

That's not the prices that manufacturers pay,

Try alibaba.

Just did, again similar prices when buying 100,000 of them.

Sizing also almost equal: 12x9mm vs 12x8mm (the solid ones are slightly
smaller)

Stop excessive crosposting...

I suppose cos they can get them el chepo. I also have found toward the end
of the 90s, those little tantalum caps that look like blobs of resin
coloured blue tend to go leaky and damage the rest of the circuit.
Nothing is supposed to last any more.
Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
newsp.0fpxfguiwdg98l@glass...
Motherboards used them over a decade ago, so why do I still find leaking
electrolytics in TVs?
https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/...herboard-line?

On Mon, 10 Feb 2020 02:34:37 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the senile asshole's latest troll****

02:34 already??? LOL So you have been up and trolling for OVER TWO HOURS,
yet again!

IOW, it WILL be another lonely long miserable night of trolling for you, you
clinically insane sociopathic senile pest! LOL

--
Bod addressing abnormal senile quarreller Rodent Speed:
"Do you practice arguing with yourself in an empty room?"
MID:

On Sun, 9 Feb 2020 16:06:41 -0000, Brainless & Daft, the notorious,
troll-feeding senile idiot, blathered again:

Stop excessive crosposting...

Yeah, Brainless & Daft, try to talk sense into a PROVEN clinically insane
sociopathic troll! tsk

What's wrong with crossposting? There are 4 groups where people might know the answer. Yes, I could post 4 times seperately, but then people wouldn't see each other's replies.

I've checked both Ebay and Alibaba (where you can buy huge bulk quantities), and the prices are no different.

I've never seen the tantalum ones break.


On Sun, 09 Feb 2020 16:06:41 -0000, Brian Gaff (Sofa 2) wrote:


Stop excessive crosposting...

I suppose cos they can get them el chepo. I also have found toward the end
of the 90s, those little tantalum caps that look like blobs of resin
coloured blue tend to go leaky and damage the rest of the circuit.
Nothing is supposed to last any more.
Brian

On 09/02/2020 16:06, Brian Gaff (Sofa 2) wrote:
Stop excessive crosposting...

I suppose cos they can get them el chepo. I also have found toward the end
of the 90s, those little tantalum caps that look like blobs of resin
coloured blue tend to go leaky and damage the rest of the circuit.
Nothing is supposed to last any more.
Brian


I remember working on (expensive) test equipment in the 80s and a common
failure mechanism with the tantalum bead capacitors was a short circuit
taking out other components.


--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 09 Feb 2020 11:55:15 -0000, Fredxx wrote:

On 09/02/2020 11:41:25, Commander Kinsey wrote:
Motherboards used them over a decade ago, so why do I still find
leaking electrolytics in TVs?
https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/...herboard-line?


Cost.

I tried to find the cheapest normal and solid capacitors on Ebay, as
an example 270uf, 16V: Normal: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/123940375447
Solid: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/361349708743
£3.94 for normal, £3.83 for solid, so pretty much the same price.
Sizing also almost equal: 12x9mm vs 12x8mm (the solid ones are
slightly smaller)

Asks the unemployable trolling ****** with a degree in micro electronics. He
has yet to contribute anything to any group.
What a waste of money and oxygen you always have been, phucker.

On Sun, 09 Feb 2020 18:16:02 -0000, Mr Pounder Esquire wrote:

Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 09 Feb 2020 11:55:15 -0000, Fredxx wrote:

On 09/02/2020 11:41:25, Commander Kinsey wrote:
Motherboards used them over a decade ago, so why do I still find
leaking electrolytics in TVs?
https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/...herboard-line?


Cost.

I tried to find the cheapest normal and solid capacitors on Ebay, as
an example 270uf, 16V: Normal: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/123940375447
Solid: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/361349708743
£3.94 for normal, £3.83 for solid, so pretty much the same price.
Sizing also almost equal: 12x9mm vs 12x8mm (the solid ones are
slightly smaller)

Asks the unemployable trolling ****** with a degree in micro electronics. He
has yet to contribute anything to any group.
What a waste of money and oxygen you always have been, phucker.

I take it you know the answer then? Or are you just arguing for no reason?

On Sun, 09 Feb 2020 16:43:30 -0000, alan_m wrote:

On 09/02/2020 16:06, Brian Gaff (Sofa 2) wrote:
Stop excessive crosposting...

I suppose cos they can get them el chepo. I also have found toward the end
of the 90s, those little tantalum caps that look like blobs of resin
coloured blue tend to go leaky and damage the rest of the circuit.
Nothing is supposed to last any more.
Brian

I remember working on (expensive) test equipment in the 80s and a common
failure mechanism with the tantalum bead capacitors was a short circuit
taking out other components.

Were those visibly obviously damaged? It's just I've never seen one fail, and was wondering if I could tell from a visual inspection. The electrolytics have clearly failed when they bulge or burst - I see it all the time in old/cheap motherboards, or inside TVs.

Commander Kinsey wrote:
What's wrong with crossposting? There are 4 groups where people might
know the answer. Yes, I could post 4 times seperately, but then people
wouldn't see each other's replies.

I've checked both Ebay and Alibaba (where you can buy huge bulk
quantities), and the prices are no different.

I've never seen the tantalum ones break.


On Sun, 09 Feb 2020 16:06:41 -0000, Brian Gaff (Sofa 2)
wrote:


Stop excessive crosposting...

I suppose cos they can get them el chepo. I also have found toward
the end
of the 90s, those little tantalum caps that look like blobs of resin
coloured blue tend to go leaky and damage the rest of the circuit.
Nothing is supposed to last any more.
Brian

This is copied from the web page of a capacitor company.

Pros of aluminum electrolytic capacitors:

Higher voltage ratings available (up to 600V)
Way cheaper pricing (for the same capacitance and voltage)
Better leakage current behavior than polymer

Pros of polymer electrolytic capacitors:

Lower ESR/higher allowable ripple current
No dry-out behavior (unlike aluminum capacitors)
Higher expected lifetime/load life

And while one biased company claims electrolytics
dry out after 3 years (a made up number), another
company (likely using field statistics for their
own capacitors) finds the time constant is 17 years.
And I would have to conclude that the 17 year number
is likely to be closer to the truth (based on old computers
still in a running state, like my first computer from
1998-1999 or so which still operates just fine).

The Arrhenius effect is for real, and operating even
the best electrolytics at high temperature, doesn't
end well. At the highest allowed temperatures, some
of these electrolytics (by calculation) should only
last for 2000 hours. That's what the curve fit data
for accelerated life testing shows. When I say a
number like 17 years, it would be in an item with
proper and copious cooling. Note that electrolytics
themselves get warm in service, depending on the
ripple current being forced through them. The plastic
sleeve on the outside, does not enhance cooling for
those situations. The capacitors in VCore (on the primary
or secondary side) could be experiencing high ripple currents.
And if any are to fail, those should go first. The
"bulk" decouplers placed near a PCI or PCIe slot,
those aren't under nearly the same stress level.

HTH,
Paul

On Sun, 09 Feb 2020 20:59:20 -0000, Paul wrote:

Commander Kinsey wrote:
What's wrong with crossposting? There are 4 groups where people might
know the answer. Yes, I could post 4 times seperately, but then people
wouldn't see each other's replies.

I've checked both Ebay and Alibaba (where you can buy huge bulk
quantities), and the prices are no different.

I've never seen the tantalum ones break.


On Sun, 09 Feb 2020 16:06:41 -0000, Brian Gaff (Sofa 2)
wrote:


Stop excessive crosposting...

I suppose cos they can get them el chepo. I also have found toward
the end
of the 90s, those little tantalum caps that look like blobs of resin
coloured blue tend to go leaky and damage the rest of the circuit.
Nothing is supposed to last any more.
Brian

This is copied from the web page of a capacitor company.

Pros of aluminum electrolytic capacitors:

Higher voltage ratings available (up to 600V)
Way cheaper pricing (for the same capacitance and voltage)
Better leakage current behavior than polymer

Pros of polymer electrolytic capacitors:

Lower ESR/higher allowable ripple current
No dry-out behavior (unlike aluminum capacitors)
Higher expected lifetime/load life

And while one biased company claims electrolytics
dry out after 3 years (a made up number), another
company (likely using field statistics for their
own capacitors) finds the time constant is 17 years.
And I would have to conclude that the 17 year number
is likely to be closer to the truth (based on old computers
still in a running state, like my first computer from
1998-1999 or so which still operates just fine).

The Arrhenius effect is for real, and operating even
the best electrolytics at high temperature, doesn't
end well. At the highest allowed temperatures, some
of these electrolytics (by calculation) should only
last for 2000 hours. That's what the curve fit data
for accelerated life testing shows. When I say a
number like 17 years, it would be in an item with
proper and copious cooling. Note that electrolytics
themselves get warm in service, depending on the
ripple current being forced through them. The plastic
sleeve on the outside, does not enhance cooling for
those situations. The capacitors in VCore (on the primary
or secondary side) could be experiencing high ripple currents.
And if any are to fail, those should go first. The
"bulk" decouplers placed near a PCI or PCIe slot,
those aren't under nearly the same stress level.

There are three types of capacitor we should be considering he

Standard electrolytic.
Aluminium electrolytic.
Solid aluminium.

The last two are not the same.

Brian Gaff (Sofa 2) wrote

I suppose cos they can get them el chepo. I also have found toward the
end of the 90s, those little tantalum caps that look like blobs of resin
coloured blue tend to go leaky and damage the rest of the circuit.

Don’t see much of that anymore.

Nothing is supposed to last any more.

Stainless steel cutlery does. Just noticed that some of our
irrigation control weirs/gates are now entirely stainless
steel. Bet they werent cheap but they certainly will last.

"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
newsp.0fpxfguiwdg98l@glass...
Motherboards used them over a decade ago, so why do I still find leaking
electrolytics in TVs?
https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/...herboard-line?

On 09/02/2020 14:18:54, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 09 Feb 2020 13:44:19 -0000, Rod Speed
wrote:

Cost.

Commander Kinsey wrote

Motherboards used them over a decade ago, so why do I still find leaking
electrolytics in TVs?

Cost.

https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/...herboard-line?


I tried to find the cheapest normal and solid capacitors on Ebay, as an
example 270uf, 16V:
Normal: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/123940375447
Solid: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/361349708743
£3.94 for normal, £3.83 for solid, so pretty much the same price.
Sizing also almost equal: 12x9mm vs 12x8mm (the solid ones are slightly
smaller)

Try a real world electronics online catalogue

https://www.digikey.co.uk/product-de...861-ND/4843671
vs
https://www.digikey.co.uk/product-de...812-ND/5822363

suggests the costs ratio for your example value is 3x or so for 1,000 off.

You're not coming across as being very bright.

--
Never argue with stupid people like peter hucker, they will drag you
down to their own level and then beat you with experience.

Commander Kinsey wrote

What's wrong with crossposting? There are 4 groups where people might
know the answer. Yes, I could post 4 times seperately, but then people
wouldn't see each other's replies.

And those who read more than one group wouldn't
have the post auto marked as read in the other groups.

I've checked both Ebay and Alibaba (where you can buy huge bulk
quantities), and the prices are no different.

I've never seen the tantalum ones break.

He didn't say break, he said go leaky.

Ii did happen a bit.


On Sun, 09 Feb 2020 16:06:41 -0000, Brian Gaff (Sofa 2)
wrote:


Stop excessive crosposting...

I suppose cos they can get them el chepo. I also have found toward the
end
of the 90s, those little tantalum caps that look like blobs of resin
coloured blue tend to go leaky and damage the rest of the circuit.
Nothing is supposed to last any more.
Brian

On Sun, 09 Feb 2020 15:59:20 -0500, Paul, another miserable, troll-feeding,
senile idiot, blathered:


HTH,
Paul

It WILL help him to jerk off again, you troll-feeding senile asshole!

On Sun, 9 Feb 2020 21:10:44 +0000, Fredxx, the notorious, troll-feeding,
senile cretin, blathered again:


You're not coming across as being very bright.

Says the senile smartass who refuses to see that he's feeding a retarded
troll, just so he can keep smartassing! tsk

On Mon, 10 Feb 2020 08:15:21 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the two abnormal sociopathic idiots' idiotic blather

--
Typical retarded "conversation" between the Scottish ****** and the senile
Ozzietard:

Birdbrain: "Horse **** doesn't stink."

Senile Rodent: "It does if you roll in it."

Birdbrain: "I've never worked out why, I assumed it was maybe meateaters
that made stinky ****, but then why does vegetarian human **** stink? Is it
just the fact that we're capable of digesting meat?"

Senile Rodent: "Nope, some cow **** stinks too."

Message-ID:

On Sun, 09 Feb 2020 21:06:25 -0000, Rod Speed wrote:

Brian Gaff (Sofa 2) wrote

I suppose cos they can get them el chepo. I also have found toward the
end of the 90s, those little tantalum caps that look like blobs of resin
coloured blue tend to go leaky and damage the rest of the circuit.

Dont see much of that anymore.

Nothing is supposed to last any more.

Stainless steel cutlery does.

Agreed. I have some that's older than me.

Just noticed that some of our
irrigation control weirs/gates are now entirely stainless
steel. Bet they werent cheap but they certainly will last.

Sometimes, just sometimes, people actually think long term.

"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
newsp.0fpxfguiwdg98l@glass...
Motherboards used them over a decade ago, so why do I still find leaking
electrolytics in TVs?
https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/...herboard-line?

On Sun, 09 Feb 2020 21:10:44 -0000, Fredxx wrote:

On 09/02/2020 14:18:54, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 09 Feb 2020 13:44:19 -0000, Rod Speed
wrote:

Cost.

Commander Kinsey wrote

Motherboards used them over a decade ago, so why do I still find leaking
electrolytics in TVs?

Cost.

https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/...herboard-line?


I tried to find the cheapest normal and solid capacitors on Ebay, as an
example 270uf, 16V:
Normal: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/123940375447
Solid: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/361349708743
£3.94 for normal, £3.83 for solid, so pretty much the same price.
Sizing also almost equal: 12x9mm vs 12x8mm (the solid ones are slightly
smaller)

Try a real world electronics online catalogue

https://www.digikey.co.uk/product-de...861-ND/4843671
vs
https://www.digikey.co.uk/product-de...812-ND/5822363

suggests the costs ratio for your example value is 3x or so for 1,000 off.

You're not coming across as being very bright.

Well Alibaba disagrees with you.

On Mon, 10 Feb 2020 08:06:25 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

Brian Gaff (Sofa 2) wrote

I suppose cos they can get them el chepo. I also have found toward the
end of the 90s, those little tantalum caps that look like blobs of resin
coloured blue tend to go leaky and damage the rest of the circuit.

Don¢t see much of that anymore.

Nothing is supposed to last any more.

Stainless steel cutlery does. Just noticed that some of our
irrigation control weirs/gates are now entirely stainless
steel. Bet they werent cheap but they certainly will last.

LOL Lonely auto-contradicting senile pest!

--
Bod addressing abnormal senile quarreller Rot:
"Do you practice arguing with yourself in an empty room?"
MID:

On Sun, 09 Feb 2020 21:15:21 -0000, Rod Speed wrote:

Commander Kinsey wrote

What's wrong with crossposting? There are 4 groups where people might
know the answer. Yes, I could post 4 times seperately, but then people
wouldn't see each other's replies.

And those who read more than one group wouldn't
have the post auto marked as read in the other groups.

Indeed. If crossposting was somehow wrong, then it wouldn't be allowed by all the newsreaders and newsservers out there.

I've checked both Ebay and Alibaba (where you can buy huge bulk
quantities), and the prices are no different.

I've never seen the tantalum ones break.

He didn't say break, he said go leaky.

I assume leaky also means not functioning within the desired parameters.

Ii did happen a bit.

I've never seen it in my 44 years. But then you are considerably older than me.

On Sun, 09 Feb 2020 16:06:41 -0000, Brian Gaff (Sofa 2)
wrote:


Stop excessive crosposting...

I suppose cos they can get them el chepo. I also have found toward the
end
of the 90s, those little tantalum caps that look like blobs of resin
coloured blue tend to go leaky and damage the rest of the circuit.
Nothing is supposed to last any more.
Brian

"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
newsp.0fqghipbwdg98l@glass...
On Sun, 09 Feb 2020 16:43:30 -0000, alan_m wrote:

On 09/02/2020 16:06, Brian Gaff (Sofa 2) wrote:
Stop excessive crosposting...

I suppose cos they can get them el chepo. I also have found toward the
end
of the 90s, those little tantalum caps that look like blobs of resin
coloured blue tend to go leaky and damage the rest of the circuit.
Nothing is supposed to last any more.
Brian

I remember working on (expensive) test equipment in the 80s and a common
failure mechanism with the tantalum bead capacitors was a short circuit
taking out other components.

Were those visibly obviously damaged? It's just I've never seen one fail,

Most likely because you werent involved with the gear they were used in.

and was wondering if I could tell from a visual inspection.

Yes with the ones that leak, no with the ones that go short.

The electrolytics have clearly failed when they bulge or burst - I see it
all the time in old/cheap motherboards, or inside TVs.

On Sun, 09 Feb 2020 16:43:30 +0000, alan_m wrote:

On 09/02/2020 16:06, Brian Gaff (Sofa 2) wrote:
Stop excessive crosposting...

I suppose cos they can get them el chepo. I also have found toward the
end of the 90s, those little tantalum caps that look like blobs of
resin coloured blue tend to go leaky and damage the rest of the
circuit.
Nothing is supposed to last any more.
Brian


I remember working on (expensive) test equipment in the 80s and a common
failure mechanism with the tantalum bead capacitors was a short circuit
taking out other components.

That's the big problem with tantalums - they almost always fail short
circuit.

--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
newsp.0fqo12lowdg98l@glass...
On Sun, 09 Feb 2020 21:10:44 -0000, Fredxx wrote:

On 09/02/2020 14:18:54, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 09 Feb 2020 13:44:19 -0000, Rod Speed
wrote:

Cost.

Commander Kinsey wrote

Motherboards used them over a decade ago, so why do I still find
leaking
electrolytics in TVs?

Cost.

https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/...herboard-line?


I tried to find the cheapest normal and solid capacitors on Ebay, as an
example 270uf, 16V:
Normal: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/123940375447
Solid: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/361349708743
£3.94 for normal, £3.83 for solid, so pretty much the same price.
Sizing also almost equal: 12x9mm vs 12x8mm (the solid ones are slightly
smaller)

Try a real world electronics online catalogue

https://www.digikey.co.uk/product-de...861-ND/4843671
vs
https://www.digikey.co.uk/product-de...812-ND/5822363

suggests the costs ratio for your example value is 3x or so for 1,000
off.

You're not coming across as being very bright.

Well Alibaba disagrees with you.

Bet you cant provide a pair of links on
that like you did with the ebay prices.

"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
newsp.0fqo4ek8wdg98l@glass...
On Sun, 09 Feb 2020 21:15:21 -0000, Rod Speed
wrote:

Commander Kinsey wrote

What's wrong with crossposting? There are 4 groups where people might
know the answer. Yes, I could post 4 times seperately, but then people
wouldn't see each other's replies.

And those who read more than one group wouldn't
have the post auto marked as read in the other groups.

Indeed. If crossposting was somehow wrong, then it wouldn't be allowed by
all the newsreaders and newsservers out there.

Not all news servers do, at least one of them,
forget which, doesn't allow cross posting.

Stupid imo but it is that stupid.

I've checked both Ebay and Alibaba (where you can buy huge bulk
quantities), and the prices are no different.

I've never seen the tantalum ones break.

He didn't say break, he said go leaky.

I assume leaky also means not functioning within the desired parameters.

No, with his comment about damaging other
stuff, he meant leaking with stuff coming out.

Ii did happen a bit.

I've never seen it in my 44 years.

Likely because of the sort of gear you
ever got to deal with. They were never
all that common in domestic stuff.

But then you are considerably older than me.

Yep, and have dealt with a much wider
variety of electronic equipment.

On Sun, 09 Feb 2020 16:06:41 -0000, Brian Gaff (Sofa 2)
wrote:


Stop excessive crosposting...

I suppose cos they can get them el chepo. I also have found toward the
end
of the 90s, those little tantalum caps that look like blobs of resin
coloured blue tend to go leaky and damage the rest of the circuit.
Nothing is supposed to last any more.
Brian

On Sun, 09 Feb 2020 21:49:54 -0000, Rod Speed wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
newsp.0fqghipbwdg98l@glass...
On Sun, 09 Feb 2020 16:43:30 -0000, alan_m wrote:

On 09/02/2020 16:06, Brian Gaff (Sofa 2) wrote:
Stop excessive crosposting...

I suppose cos they can get them el chepo. I also have found toward the
end
of the 90s, those little tantalum caps that look like blobs of resin
coloured blue tend to go leaky and damage the rest of the circuit.
Nothing is supposed to last any more.
Brian

I remember working on (expensive) test equipment in the 80s and a common
failure mechanism with the tantalum bead capacitors was a short circuit
taking out other components.

Were those visibly obviously damaged? It's just I've never seen one fail,

Most likely because you werent involved with the gear they were used in.

Almost everything uses them.

and was wondering if I could tell from a visual inspection.

Yes with the ones that leak, no with the ones that go short.

Then I may have seen one :-)

The electrolytics have clearly failed when they bulge or burst - I see it
all the time in old/cheap motherboards, or inside TVs.

On Mon, 10 Feb 2020 08:49:54 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


Were those visibly obviously damaged? It's just I've never seen one fail,

Most likely because you werent involved with the gear they were used in.

Tell us again how YOU were involved in the design of a computer OS, senile
Rodent! LMAO

--
Senile Rot about himself:
"I was involved in the design of a computer OS"
MID:

On Sun, 09 Feb 2020 22:17:44 -0000, Rod Speed wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
newsp.0fqo12lowdg98l@glass...
On Sun, 09 Feb 2020 21:10:44 -0000, Fredxx wrote:

On 09/02/2020 14:18:54, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 09 Feb 2020 13:44:19 -0000, Rod Speed
wrote:

Cost.

Commander Kinsey wrote

Motherboards used them over a decade ago, so why do I still find
leaking
electrolytics in TVs?

Cost.

https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/...herboard-line?


I tried to find the cheapest normal and solid capacitors on Ebay, as an
example 270uf, 16V:
Normal: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/123940375447
Solid: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/361349708743
£3.94 for normal, £3.83 for solid, so pretty much the same price.
Sizing also almost equal: 12x9mm vs 12x8mm (the solid ones are slightly
smaller)

Try a real world electronics online catalogue

https://www.digikey.co.uk/product-de...861-ND/4843671
vs
https://www.digikey.co.uk/product-de...812-ND/5822363

suggests the costs ratio for your example value is 3x or so for 1,000
off.

You're not coming across as being very bright.

Well Alibaba disagrees with you.

Bet you cant provide a pair of links on
that like you did with the ebay prices.

Do it yourself.