In the good old days I would have used junction boxes but now these have
to be 'accessible' I ought to use an alternative.

I have tried crimps in the past and been thoroughly disillusioned with
them. I have found them unreliable and easily pulled apart, even with
ratchet crimping pliers.

Is there an alternative convenient and affordable method recommended
where access is not required.

On 17/01/2020 16:15, Fredxx wrote:
In the good old days I would have used junction boxes but now these have
to be 'accessible' I ought to use an alternative.

I have tried crimps in the past and been thoroughly disillusioned with
them. I have found them unreliable and easily pulled apart, even with
ratchet crimping pliers.

Is there an alternative convenient and affordable method recommended
where access is not required.

Correctly made crimp joints with a decent ratchet crimper should
not pull apart. Something else is wrong with your technique or
equiopment.

In Oz I believe they solder all joints and use heat shrinkable
sleeving. Can anyone confirm this ?.

Wago connectors and similar seem to be the favourite way these
days.

Fredxx wrote:

Is there an alternative convenient and affordable method recommended
where access is not required.

wago connectors in a wagobox.

I inaccessible, the connectors need de-rating [to 20A? I think for 222
series] and there's a total current limit [of 50A? I think] for all
circuits within a single box, some of the older wagoboxes didn't have
the "MF" mark.

On 17/01/2020 16:15, Fredxx wrote:
In the good old days I would have used junction boxes but now these have
to be 'accessible' I ought to use an alternative.

I have tried crimps in the past and been thoroughly disillusioned with
them. I have found them unreliable and easily pulled apart, even with
ratchet crimping pliers.

Is there an alternative convenient and affordable method recommended
where access is not required.

Solder and heat shrink. Or Wago.

On 17/01/2020 16:21, Andrew wrote:
In Oz I believe they solder all joints and use heat shrinkable
sleeving.Â* Can anyone confirm this ?.

I would, because I am utterly familar with it, solder any 'out of sight'
cable joins. Using best MilSpec practivce. That is the wires are twisted
or bent around each other so they cannot come apart, BEFORE soldering


--
Microsoft : the best reason to go to Linux that ever existed.

On 17/01/2020 16:26:20, Andy Burns wrote:
Fredxx wrote:

Is there an alternative convenient and affordable method recommended
where access is not required.

wago connectors in a wagobox.

I inaccessible, the connectors need de-rating [to 20A? I think for 222
series] and there's a total current limit [of 50A? I think] for all
circuits within a single box, some of the older wagoboxes didn't have
the "MF" mark.

Many thanks. I can't seem to find any info on their derating?

What's the significance of the MF mark?

Fredxx wrote:

I can't seem to find any info on their derating?
What's the significance of the MF mark?

"MF" officially makes them "maintenance free" see the final section of

http://enews.wago.com/art_resource.php?sid=8u8pz.k3ilfc,force_download=1

There may be newer info for the newer 221 connectors and XL boxes.

On 2020-01-17, Andrew wrote:

On 17/01/2020 16:15, Fredxx wrote:
In the good old days I would have used junction boxes but now these have
to be 'accessible' I ought to use an alternative.

I have tried crimps in the past and been thoroughly disillusioned with
them. I have found them unreliable and easily pulled apart, even with
ratchet crimping pliers.

Is there an alternative convenient and affordable method recommended
where access is not required.

Correctly made crimp joints with a decent ratchet crimper should
not pull apart. Something else is wrong with your technique or
equiopment.

I have a ratchet crimper from TLC Direct (recommended here by someone
knowledgeable, IIRC). I did some practice work (on offcuts of cable)
& found that I got better results after adjusting the crimper one
notch (then I started using it "for real").


In Oz I believe they solder all joints and use heat shrinkable
sleeving. Can anyone confirm this ?.

Wago connectors and similar seem to be the favourite way these
days.

I like them. (I have seen bad reviews on the WWW of off-brand
imitations.)

If access is not required surely nobody could know what you did, ie a
junction box.
Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Fredxx" wrote in message
...
In the good old days I would have used junction boxes but now these have
to be 'accessible' I ought to use an alternative.

I have tried crimps in the past and been thoroughly disillusioned with
them. I have found them unreliable and easily pulled apart, even with
ratchet crimping pliers.

Is there an alternative convenient and affordable method recommended where
access is not required.

"Andrew" wrote in message
...
On 17/01/2020 16:15, Fredxx wrote:
In the good old days I would have used junction boxes but now these have
to be 'accessible' I ought to use an alternative.

I have tried crimps in the past and been thoroughly disillusioned with
them. I have found them unreliable and easily pulled apart, even with
ratchet crimping pliers.

Is there an alternative convenient and affordable method recommended
where access is not required.

Correctly made crimp joints with a decent ratchet crimper should
not pull apart. Something else is wrong with your technique or
equiopment.

In Oz I believe they solder all joints

No they dont.

and use heat shrinkable sleeving. Can anyone confirm this ?.

Its wrong, we dont.

Wago connectors and similar seem to be the favourite way these days.

On Sat, 18 Jan 2020 05:33:00 +1100, Rod Speedcantankerous trolling geezer
Rodent Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH yet more of the clincally insane trolling senile asshole's troll****

05:33? LOL Does really NOBODY in your neighbourhood ever talk to you
(excepting your idiotic Alexa, of course)? VBG

--
Marland revealing the senile sociopath's pathology:
"You have mentioned Alexa in a couple of threads recently, it is not a real
woman you know even if it is the only thing with a Female name that stays
around around while you talk it to it.
Poor sad git who has to resort to Usenet and electronic devices for any
interaction as all real people run a mile to get away from from you boring
them to death."
MID:

On Friday, 17 January 2020 16:15:48 UTC, Fredxx wrote:
In the good old days I would have used junction boxes but now these have
to be 'accessible' I ought to use an alternative.

I have tried crimps in the past and been thoroughly disillusioned with
them. I have found them unreliable and easily pulled apart, even with
ratchet crimping pliers.

Is there an alternative convenient and affordable method recommended
where access is not required.

Soldering is my preferred, but beware of one gotcha. Wires must be made immovable before soldering, otherwise any movement will separate the wires in time. A screw jbox can immobilise the wire ends, or more twists than you'd expect to be necessary can. What appears to be enough twisting is definitely not.


NT

On 2020-01-17, Brian Gaff (Sofa 2) wrote:

If access is not required surely nobody could know what you did, ie a
junction box.

Until years later, when the terminals work loose & the lights start
flickering (or worse).

On 17/01/2020 16:21, Andrew wrote:
On 17/01/2020 16:15, Fredxx wrote:
In the good old days I would have used junction boxes but now these
have to be 'accessible' I ought to use an alternative.

I have tried crimps in the past and been thoroughly disillusioned with
them. I have found them unreliable and easily pulled apart, even with
ratchet crimping pliers.

Is there an alternative convenient and affordable method recommended
where access is not required.

Correctly made crimp joints with a decent ratchet crimper should
not pull apart. Something else is wrong with your technique or
equiopment.

Which may be either the crimper or the crimp itself. Beware of cheap crimps!

Industrial C&I plant is almost invariably constructed with crimps these
days.


In Oz I believe they solder all joints and use heat shrinkable
sleeving.Â* Can anyone confirm this ?.

Wago connectors and similar seem to be the favourite way these
days.

On 17/01/2020 16:42:31, Andy Burns wrote:
Fredxx wrote:

I can't seem to find any info on their derating?
What's the significance of the MF mark?

"MF" officially makes them "maintenance free" see the final section of

http://enews.wago.com/art_resource.php?sid=8u8pz.k3ilfc,force_download=1

There may be newer info for the newer 221 connectors and XL boxes.

That's very useful, thanks. It seems the 222 series would be fine for
lighting or a max 20A circuit.

The 221 series is outlined:

http://www.wago.ltd.uk/media/wago_lt...t_60341289.pdf

and claims a current rating of 32A but the table of Maintenance Free
Installation Instructions gives a max current rating of 20A, same as
the 222 series. Is this a feature of BS 5733 rather than the actual
connector?

On 17/01/2020 16:21:57, Andrew wrote:
On 17/01/2020 16:15, Fredxx wrote:
In the good old days I would have used junction boxes but now these
have to be 'accessible' I ought to use an alternative.

I have tried crimps in the past and been thoroughly disillusioned with
them. I have found them unreliable and easily pulled apart, even with
ratchet crimping pliers.

Is there an alternative convenient and affordable method recommended
where access is not required.

Correctly made crimp joints with a decent ratchet crimper should
not pull apart. Something else is wrong with your technique or
equiopment.

I feel this may well be the case. I've used Silverline and other
crimpers where I've been able to pull the cable out of the connector.

In Oz I believe they solder all joints and use heat shrinkable
sleeving.Â* Can anyone confirm this ?.

Wago connectors and similar seem to be the favourite way these
days.

These seem fine for 20A or less but I'm not sure if there are an series
that can be used for a 32A ring.

On 17/01/2020 17:06:52, Adam Funk wrote:
On 2020-01-17, Andrew wrote:

On 17/01/2020 16:15, Fredxx wrote:
In the good old days I would have used junction boxes but now these have
to be 'accessible' I ought to use an alternative.

I have tried crimps in the past and been thoroughly disillusioned with
them. I have found them unreliable and easily pulled apart, even with
ratchet crimping pliers.

Is there an alternative convenient and affordable method recommended
where access is not required.

Correctly made crimp joints with a decent ratchet crimper should
not pull apart. Something else is wrong with your technique or
equiopment.

I have a ratchet crimper from TLC Direct (recommended here by someone
knowledgeable, IIRC). I did some practice work (on offcuts of cable)
& found that I got better results after adjusting the crimper one
notch (then I started using it "for real").

Is this their DV DHCR15 tool?


In Oz I believe they solder all joints and use heat shrinkable
sleeving. Can anyone confirm this ?.

Wago connectors and similar seem to be the favourite way these
days.

I like them. (I have seen bad reviews on the WWW of off-brand
imitations.)

They do seem a good choice.

On 17/01/2020 16:32, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 17/01/2020 16:21, Andrew wrote:
In Oz I believe they solder all joints and use heat shrinkable
sleeving.Â* Can anyone confirm this ?.

I would, because I am utterly familar with it, solder any 'out of sight'
cable joins. Using best MilSpec practivce. That is the wires are twisted
or bent around each other so they cannot come apart, BEFORE soldering


Well yes because the solder itself shouldn't be regarded as a mechanical
coupling.

Bill

Fredxx wrote:
In the good old days I would have used junction boxes but now these have
to be 'accessible' I ought to use an alternative.

I have tried crimps in the past and been thoroughly disillusioned with
them. I have found them unreliable and easily pulled apart, even with
ratchet crimping pliers.

You are not doing it right.


Is there an alternative convenient and affordable method recommended
where access is not required.

Andrew wrote:
On 17/01/2020 16:15, Fredxx wrote:
In the good old days I would have used junction boxes but now these
have to be 'accessible' I ought to use an alternative.

I have tried crimps in the past and been thoroughly disillusioned with
them. I have found them unreliable and easily pulled apart, even with
ratchet crimping pliers.

Is there an alternative convenient and affordable method recommended
where access is not required.

Correctly made crimp joints with a decent ratchet crimper should
not pull apart. Something else is wrong with your technique or
equiopment.

In Oz I believe they solder all joints and use heat shrinkable
sleeving.Â* Can anyone confirm this ?.

No to soldering normally but yes to heat shrink sometimes.

Wago connectors and similar seem to be the favourite way these
days.

Fredxx wrote:

It seems the 222 series would be fine for lighting or a max 20A circuit.

Do the rules assume an reasonably equally loaded leg of a ring is half
of 32A?

Has the OP considered one of these?

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Product...SABEgIrIPD_BwE

There is a 20a version that has a 4th terminal block if there are switches involved.

On 18 Jan 2020 at 01:36:18 GMT, "Fredxx" wrote:




Wago connectors and similar seem to be the favourite way these
days.

These seem fine for 20A or less but I'm not sure if there are an series
that can be used for a 32A ring.

Does that just leave crimping for an inaccessible join on a 32A ring?

Cheers, Rob

On 18/01/2020 09:56, RJH wrote:
On 18 Jan 2020 at 01:36:18 GMT, "Fredxx" wrote:




Wago connectors and similar seem to be the favourite way these
days.

These seem fine for 20A or less but I'm not sure if there are an series
that can be used for a 32A ring.

Does that just leave crimping for an inaccessible join on a 32A ring?


Cable for a 32A ring doesn't have to be have capacity for more than 20A
if the ring meets the special [wriggle-room] regulation for 2.5mm T&E.
That is that the current in any part of the circuit is unlikely to
exceed 20A for long periods.


--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 18/01/2020 03:21:39, FMurtz wrote:
Fredxx wrote:
In the good old days I would have used junction boxes but now these
have to be 'accessible' I ought to use an alternative.

I have tried crimps in the past and been thoroughly disillusioned with
them. I have found them unreliable and easily pulled apart, even with
ratchet crimping pliers.

You are not doing it right.

1) Strip wires
2) Place wires in crimp of the correct size
3) Place crimper around crimp in the correct 'notch'
4) Squeeze handle of crimper as many times as required
5) Pull test pass/fail
6) If fail tighten crimpers and use new crimp if appropriate
7) Repeat and use new crimp if appropriate until success

Perhaps I'm tightening the crimpers too far? Either way I can generally
pull out the wires, or at least one.

On 18/01/2020 07:44:23, Andy Burns wrote:
Fredxx wrote:

It seems the 222 series would be fine for lighting or a max 20A circuit.

Do the rules assume an reasonably equally loaded leg of a ring is half
of 32A?

2.5mm^2 is allowed which has an unrated value of 26A. A double socket
has a rating of 20A.

I feel an unbalance leg of 26/32A might be acceptable but 20/32A?

In article ,
Andrew wrote:
Correctly made crimp joints with a decent ratchet crimper should
not pull apart. Something else is wrong with your technique or
equiopment.

The quality of the actual crimp thingies varies enormously. The thickness
of the brass used. And impossible to tell with a pre insulated back to
back.

--
*I pretend to work. - they pretend to pay me.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
In the good old days I would have used junction boxes but now these have
to be 'accessible' I ought to use an alternative.

I would ask how often you need to access that junction box for maintenance
etc. Mine are all accessible in terms of the regs, and my answer is never.

--
*The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 18/01/2020 12:36:37, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
In the good old days I would have used junction boxes but now these have
to be 'accessible' I ought to use an alternative.

I would ask how often you need to access that junction box for maintenance
etc. Mine are all accessible in terms of the regs, and my answer is never.

There is that, especially as I intend to screw any floorboards back into
place.

But, by the time carpet is placed on top, while it may be deemed
accessible it really is going to be join and forget.

On 18/01/2020 07:44, Andy Burns wrote:
Fredxx wrote:

It seems the 222 series would be fine for lighting or a max 20A circuit.

Do the rules assume an reasonably equally loaded leg of a ring is half
of 32A?


Last forever IMHO.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uYD8e7idnY&

--
Adam

In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
On 18/01/2020 12:36:37, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
In the good old days I would have used junction boxes but now these
have to be 'accessible' I ought to use an alternative.

I would ask how often you need to access that junction box for
maintenance etc. Mine are all accessible in terms of the regs, and my
answer is never.

There is that, especially as I intend to screw any floorboards back into
place.

But, by the time carpet is placed on top, while it may be deemed
accessible it really is going to be join and forget.


IIRC, a junction box under floor boards is deemed accessible. One
plastered into a wall, not.

--
*Gargling is a good way to see if your throat leaks.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Adam Funk wrote:
On 2020-01-17, Brian Gaff (Sofa 2) wrote:

If access is not required surely nobody could know what you did, ie a
junction box.

Until years later, when the terminals work loose & the lights start
flickering (or worse).

Well, I wired this house some 40 odd years ago. Not has a problem with any
terminal working loose. Perhaps because I tightened them correctly in the
first place? I have worked on other installations where this wasn't so,
though. And wondered if it was an electrician making work for the future?

--
*Everyone has a photographic memory. Some just don't have film*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 17/01/2020 16:15, Fredxx wrote:

In the good old days I would have used junction boxes but now these have
to be 'accessible' I ought to use an alternative.

I have tried crimps in the past and been thoroughly disillusioned with
them. I have found them unreliable and easily pulled apart, even with
ratchet crimping pliers.

Which suggests that something is not working as it should there. I find
a well made crimp is far harder to pull apart than say a cable in a
screw down terminal. The ratchet crimpers often allow for some
adjustment to the tightness. Also make sure you are using the right type
of *insulated* crimp in them.

Is there an alternative convenient and affordable method recommended
where access is not required.

Solder and heatshrink is ok. Start with a mechanical join first (i.e.
twisted or wire wrapped) then solder.

Wago style terminals are also quick and easy - and probably easier to
implement in many more difficult to reach circumstances.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 18/01/2020 01:36, Fredxx wrote:
On 17/01/2020 16:21:57, Andrew wrote:
On 17/01/2020 16:15, Fredxx wrote:
In the good old days I would have used junction boxes but now these
have to be 'accessible' I ought to use an alternative.

I have tried crimps in the past and been thoroughly disillusioned
with them. I have found them unreliable and easily pulled apart, even
with ratchet crimping pliers.

Is there an alternative convenient and affordable method recommended
where access is not required.

Correctly made crimp joints with a decent ratchet crimper should
not pull apart. Something else is wrong with your technique or
equiopment.

I feel this may well be the case. I've used Silverline and other
crimpers where I've been able to pull the cable out of the connector.

In Oz I believe they solder all joints and use heat shrinkable
sleeving.Â* Can anyone confirm this ?.

Wago connectors and similar seem to be the favourite way these
days.

These seem fine for 20A or less but I'm not sure if there are an series
that can be used for a 32A ring.

Remember that the minimum installed cable capacity[1] required for a
ring is only 20A


[1] i.e. once all de-rating factors are taken into account. So for
example 2.5mm^2 T&E has a "clipped direct" capacity of 27A, but that
reduces depending on how its actually installed. So enclosed in an
insulated stud wall but in contact with one of the plasterboard surfaces
for example would reduce its capacity to 21A. In a conduit in a
insulated wall, reduces it to 20A.

See reference method 102 in the table he

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/Cables#Cable_Sizes



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 19/01/2020 11:57, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Adam Funk wrote:
On 2020-01-17, Brian Gaff (Sofa 2) wrote:

If access is not required surely nobody could know what you did, ie a
junction box.

Until years later, when the terminals work loose & the lights start
flickering (or worse).

Well, I wired this house some 40 odd years ago. Not has a problem with any
terminal working loose. Perhaps because I tightened them correctly in the
first place? I have worked on other installations where this wasn't so,
though. And wondered if it was an electrician making work for the future?

Much depends on the circuit IME... Lighting circuits never run anywhere
close to the full rated capacity of the cable, and there is very little
thermal expansion and contraction, and no heating effect other than at
the terminals other than those on the lamp fittings themselves.

Circuits that cycle up to close to maximum load seem more susceptible to
problems. Other factors like how well cables are supported and even the
length of individual runs of cable can play a part.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 18/01/2020 11:08, Fredxx wrote:
On 18/01/2020 03:21:39, FMurtz wrote:
Fredxx wrote:
In the good old days I would have used junction boxes but now these
have to be 'accessible' I ought to use an alternative.

I have tried crimps in the past and been thoroughly disillusioned
with them. I have found them unreliable and easily pulled apart, even
with ratchet crimping pliers.

You are not doing it right.

1) Strip wires
2) Place wires in crimp of the correct size
3) Place crimper around crimp in the correct 'notch'

I am sure you are doing it right, but just for the avoidance of doubt,
the crimp needs to be positioned in the tool set back from the end such
that the tool only compresses the part of it that contains the metal
crimp terminal, and not the "spare" bit of insulated sleeve at the end.

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...pInTheJaws.jpg

4) Squeeze handle of crimper as many times as required
5) Pull test pass/fail
6) If fail tighten crimpers and use new crimp if appropriate
7) Repeat and use new crimp if appropriate until success

The technique sounds fine.

Perhaps I'm tightening the crimpers too far? Either way I can generally
pull out the wires, or at least one.

The pull out resistance should be "firm" or better, but not necessarily
impossible. A well made crimp will typically be harder to pull a wire
from than from a screw terminal - but you can do it with enough force
since copper is soft enough to deform with enough load. If they are
pulling out easily, then it might suggest the crimps or the tool are not
well enough matched or of adequate quality.

As to crimping too far - it seems unlikely unless flattening the
terminal so much it actually splits along one side. The crimp should
deform the wire a little - although short of cutting open a crimp that
is harder to asses. (I might try that later)



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Saturday, 18 January 2020 01:36:23 UTC, Fredxx wrote:

Wago connectors and similar seem to be the favourite way these
days.

These seem fine for 20A or less but I'm not sure if there are an series
that can be used for a 32A ring.

The 773-173 3-core connector (note no others from the 773 range) are rated at 32A when used in maintenance free mode. Further info at http://www.wago.ltd.uk/media/wago_lt...t_51009131.pdf

Incidentally, the testing procedures (in BS 5733) for maintenance free connectors and enclosures is fairly rigorous, including running them at rated current for 63 days whilst ensuring all performance parameters are retained along with less-than 10% temperature rise of the connector. Overload conditions at twice rated current for 1.5hrs are also tested, again with performance ratings having to be retained with a maximum mounting board temperature of 90c. It all adds up to instilling some confidence in approved maintenance free solutions in my view.

On 19/01/2020 14:53:29, John Rumm wrote:
On 18/01/2020 01:36, Fredxx wrote:
On 17/01/2020 16:21:57, Andrew wrote:
On 17/01/2020 16:15, Fredxx wrote:
In the good old days I would have used junction boxes but now these
have to be 'accessible' I ought to use an alternative.

I have tried crimps in the past and been thoroughly disillusioned
with them. I have found them unreliable and easily pulled apart,
even with ratchet crimping pliers.

Is there an alternative convenient and affordable method recommended
where access is not required.

Correctly made crimp joints with a decent ratchet crimper should
not pull apart. Something else is wrong with your technique or
equiopment.

I feel this may well be the case. I've used Silverline and other
crimpers where I've been able to pull the cable out of the connector.

In Oz I believe they solder all joints and use heat shrinkable
sleeving.Â* Can anyone confirm this ?.

Wago connectors and similar seem to be the favourite way these
days.

These seem fine for 20A or less but I'm not sure if there are an
series that can be used for a 32A ring.

Remember that the minimum installed cable capacity[1] required for a
ring is only 20A


[1] i.e. once all de-rating factors are taken into account. So for
example 2.5mm^2 T&E has a "clipped direct" capacity of 27A, but that
reduces depending on how its actually installed. So enclosed in an
insulated stud wall but in contact with one of the plasterboard surfaces
for example would reduce its capacity to 21A. In a conduit in a
insulated wall, reduces it to 20A.

See reference method 102 in the table he

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/Cables#Cable_Sizes

Thanks, I was aware of method 102 and believed it is OK for a 32A ring.
And that 103 should use 4+mm^2 cable for a section in insulation.
Something I would go out of my way to avoid.

I don't have my 17th edition book at hand but wasn't certain of the
rating for any leg in a ring main. I didn't know if it had changed for
the 18th Ed.

Thanks again.

On 19/01/2020 11:37:49, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
On 18/01/2020 12:36:37, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
In the good old days I would have used junction boxes but now these
have to be 'accessible' I ought to use an alternative.

I would ask how often you need to access that junction box for
maintenance etc. Mine are all accessible in terms of the regs, and my
answer is never.

There is that, especially as I intend to screw any floorboards back into
place.

But, by the time carpet is placed on top, while it may be deemed
accessible it really is going to be join and forget.


IIRC, a junction box under floor boards is deemed accessible. One
plastered into a wall, not.

Thanks, the idea of a joint in a wall doesn't appeal! Ironically one
embedded in plaster is one least likely to cause a fire.

On 19/01/2020 14:42:33, John Rumm wrote:
On 17/01/2020 16:15, Fredxx wrote:

In the good old days I would have used junction boxes but now these
have to be 'accessible' I ought to use an alternative.

I have tried crimps in the past and been thoroughly disillusioned with
them. I have found them unreliable and easily pulled apart, even with
ratchet crimping pliers.

Which suggests that something is not working as it should there. I find
a well made crimp is far harder to pull apart than say a cable in a
screw down terminal. The ratchet crimpers often allow for some
adjustment to the tightness. Also make sure you are using the right type
of *insulated* crimp in them.

Apart from size, I presume there is a range of qualities. I'm sure the
lot I got were from Screwfix.

Is there an alternative convenient and affordable method recommended
where access is not required.

Solder and heatshrink is ok. Start with a mechanical join first (i.e.
twisted or wire wrapped) then solder.

Wago style terminals are also quick and easy - and probably easier to
implement in many more difficult to reach circumstances.

That sounds a simple and attractive solution.