Happy New Year

I'm asking the question here as I am fearful to ask in the W10 group
as I may not understand the answer :-)

I was persuaded by Microsoft to change to a PIN rather than a password
to log in (supposedly more secure). In my User account I still have
the option of PIN or password, which seems to me a less secure
position. How do I remove the password and make login by PIN only?
Does this require administrator rights?

On 01/01/2020 11:14, Scott wrote:
Happy New Year

I'm asking the question here as I am fearful to ask in the W10 group
as I may not understand the answer :-)

I was persuaded by Microsoft to change to a PIN rather than a password
to log in (supposedly more secure). In my User account I still have
the option of PIN or password, which seems to me a less secure
position. How do I remove the password and make login by PIN only?
Does this require administrator rights?


I use www.tenforums.com for such questions. If you don't understand the
answer you could always post it hear. If you don't have adminstrator
rights it would make me think that you might be using a work PC.

I have never used a Pin to log in to W10.

--
Michael Chare

I don't follow the logic that a pin is more secure than a password. If each character of a pin has ten options and each character of a password has 26 or more, unless you are particularly foolish in selecting a password how do you arrive at your conclusion?

On Wed, 1 Jan 2020 06:18:51 -0800 (PST), Cynic
wrote:

I don't follow the logic that a pin is more secure than a password. If each character of a pin has ten options and each character of a password has 26 or more, unless you are particularly foolish in selecting a password how do you arrive at your conclusion?

1. It's Microsoft's logic not mine. They say the 'PIN' is unique to
the individual computer while the Password is stored online. The show
the PIN method as 'recommended'.

2. Despite being called a PIN, if you tick a box you can use letters
as well as numbers.

3. My concern is that having set up a PIN (as recommended by
Microsoft) the former password still works, meaning there are two
opportunities to gain access not just the one.

On Wed, 1 Jan 2020 14:09:22 +0000, Michael Chare
wrote:

On 01/01/2020 11:14, Scott wrote:
Happy New Year

I'm asking the question here as I am fearful to ask in the W10 group
as I may not understand the answer :-)

I was persuaded by Microsoft to change to a PIN rather than a password
to log in (supposedly more secure). In my User account I still have
the option of PIN or password, which seems to me a less secure
position. How do I remove the password and make login by PIN only?
Does this require administrator rights?


I use www.tenforums.com for such questions. If you don't understand the
answer you could always post it hear.

Will try there.

If you don't have adminstrator
rights it would make me think that you might be using a work PC.

No. I have five accounts on my home PC. One is administrator. I
also have user accounts for myself and others. I understood it was
bad practice to run as an administrator all the time.

I have never used a Pin to log in to W10.

Me neither until yesterday when I discovered this is recommended by
Microsoft.

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/win...-than-password

On Wednesday, 1 January 2020 14:48:33 UTC, Scott wrote:
On Wed, 1 Jan 2020 06:18:51 -0800 (PST), Cynic
wrote:

I don't follow the logic that a pin is more secure than a password. If each character of a pin has ten options and each character of a password has 26 or more, unless you are particularly foolish in selecting a password how do you arrive at your conclusion?

1. It's Microsoft's logic not mine. They say the 'PIN' is unique to
the individual computer while the Password is stored online. The show
the PIN method as 'recommended'.

2. Despite being called a PIN, if you tick a box you can use letters
as well as numbers.

3. My concern is that having set up a PIN (as recommended by
Microsoft) the former password still works, meaning there are two
opportunities to gain access not just the one.

However, you can more reasonably use a fiendishly long and complex password that you'd want to use as your daily login password. And use the PIN for everyday access on that one machine.

Might not be a good idea, but you also have the choice of using the same PIN for your Windows 10 PC and your Apple IOS or Android phone - despite the accounts having no relation to each other. Some might think it would make life easier but would be still secured with a copmplex password - which could (and should) be different for each account.

On Wed, 1 Jan 2020 08:07:54 -0800 (PST), polygonum_on_google
wrote:

On Wednesday, 1 January 2020 14:48:33 UTC, Scott wrote:
On Wed, 1 Jan 2020 06:18:51 -0800 (PST), Cynic
wrote:

I don't follow the logic that a pin is more secure than a password. If each character of a pin has ten options and each character of a password has 26 or more, unless you are particularly foolish in selecting a password how do you arrive at your conclusion?

1. It's Microsoft's logic not mine. They say the 'PIN' is unique to
the individual computer while the Password is stored online. The show
the PIN method as 'recommended'.

2. Despite being called a PIN, if you tick a box you can use letters
as well as numbers.

3. My concern is that having set up a PIN (as recommended by
Microsoft) the former password still works, meaning there are two
opportunities to gain access not just the one.

However, you can more reasonably use a fiendishly long and complex password that you'd want to use as your daily login password. And use the PIN for everyday access on that one machine.

Might not be a good idea, but you also have the choice of using the same PIN for your Windows 10 PC and your Apple IOS or Android phone - despite the accounts having no relation to each other. Some might think it would make life easier but would be still secured with a copmplex password - which could (and should) be different for each account.

As far as I can see PIN is a misnomer. It looks as though the PIN can
be as complex as a password. The difference seems to be local or
central storage.
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/win...-than-password
I certainly don't want the old password to co-exist with the new PIN
as this defeats the object.

Cynic wrote:

I don't follow the logic that a pin is more secure than a password. If
each character of a pin has ten options and each character of a password
has 26 or more, unless you are particularly foolish in selecting a
password how do you arrive at your conclusion?

What Microsoft is doing here, and I make no comment on whether it makes
sense, is to use a login with Microsoft for which the user ID may be an
email address and the password not particularly secure, saving these
login details, presumably encrypted, on the PC, and using a PIN to
access these credentials. These credentials are used to log in to the
system. Presumably when Internet access is available the Microsoft
credentials are checked (and the user's activity logged to a greater or
lesser extent!) with Microsoft's server. I also assume that the PIN
alone is effectively sufficient when Internet access is absent,
otherwise the computer would be unusable without an Internet connection.
Most advantages of this system would seem to accrue to Microsoft rather
than the user, but perhaps it occasionally insists on direct entry of
the Microsoft password??


To answer the OP's question (now I come to think of it) Microsft only
allows this form of login to an administrative user. Even if the
person concerned has administrative access via another user, they are
not allowed to use the PIN method to log in to an ordinary user account.
So the OP will be unable to do so.

--

Roger Hayter

On Wed, 1 Jan 2020 16:54:07 +0000, (Roger Hayter)
wrote:
[snip]

To answer the OP's question (now I come to think of it) Microsoft only
allows this form of login to an administrative user. Even if the
person concerned has administrative access via another user, they are
not allowed to use the PIN method to log in to an ordinary user account.
So the OP will be unable to do so.

No, I don't think that is correct at all. My 'user' account is
definitely a standard user (I have checked). It gives me a choice of
login method (PIN or password) and accepts a PIN in the form Xxxxnnnn.
It also accepts the former password.

On 01/01/2020 14:52, Scott wrote:
On Wed, 1 Jan 2020 14:09:22 +0000, Michael Chare
wrote:

On 01/01/2020 11:14, Scott wrote:
Happy New Year

I'm asking the question here as I am fearful to ask in the W10 group
as I may not understand the answer :-)

I was persuaded by Microsoft to change to a PIN rather than a password
to log in (supposedly more secure). In my User account I still have
the option of PIN or password, which seems to me a less secure
position. How do I remove the password and make login by PIN only?
Does this require administrator rights?


I use www.tenforums.com for such questions. If you don't understand the
answer you could always post it hear.

Will try there.

If you don't have adminstrator
rights it would make me think that you might be using a work PC.

No. I have five accounts on my home PC. One is administrator. I
also have user accounts for myself and others. I understood it was
bad practice to run as an administrator all the time.

I have never used a Pin to log in to W10.

Me neither until yesterday when I discovered this is recommended by
Microsoft.

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/win...-than-password

It's confusing to continue to call it a PIN if it doesn't have to be a
number. Why not "local password" or similar?

--
Max Demian

On 01/01/2020 16:07, polygonum_on_google wrote:
On Wednesday, 1 January 2020 14:48:33 UTC, Scott wrote:
On Wed, 1 Jan 2020 06:18:51 -0800 (PST), Cynic
wrote:

I don't follow the logic that a pin is more secure than a password. If each character of a pin has ten options and each character of a password has 26 or more, unless you are particularly foolish in selecting a password how do you arrive at your conclusion?

1. It's Microsoft's logic not mine. They say the 'PIN' is unique to
the individual computer while the Password is stored online. The show
the PIN method as 'recommended'.

2. Despite being called a PIN, if you tick a box you can use letters
as well as numbers.

3. My concern is that having set up a PIN (as recommended by
Microsoft) the former password still works, meaning there are two
opportunities to gain access not just the one.

However, you can more reasonably use a fiendishly long and complex password that you'd want to use as your daily login password. And use the PIN for everyday access on that one machine.

Might not be a good idea, but you also have the choice of using the same PIN for your Windows 10 PC and your Apple IOS or Android phone - despite the accounts having no relation to each other. Some might think it would make life easier but would be still secured with a copmplex password - which could (and should) be different for each account.

There was a guy who used the same number for his gym locker as the PIN
of his bank card - which he kept in his locker. Someone saw him enter
the number, unlocked his locker, and stole and used his card. The
Guardian article that described this failed to observe how stupid this was.

--
Max Demian

"polygonum_on_google" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 1 January 2020 14:48:33 UTC, Scott wrote:
On Wed, 1 Jan 2020 06:18:51 -0800 (PST), Cynic
wrote:

I don't follow the logic that a pin is more secure than a password. If
each character of a pin has ten options and each character of a password
has 26 or more, unless you are particularly foolish in selecting a
password how do you arrive at your conclusion?

1. It's Microsoft's logic not mine. They say the 'PIN' is unique to
the individual computer while the Password is stored online. The show
the PIN method as 'recommended'.

2. Despite being called a PIN, if you tick a box you can use letters
as well as numbers.

3. My concern is that having set up a PIN (as recommended by
Microsoft) the former password still works, meaning there are two
opportunities to gain access not just the one.

However, you can more reasonably use a fiendishly long and complex
password that you'd want to use as your daily login password. And use the
PIN for everyday access on that one machine.

Might not be a good idea, but you also have the choice of using the same
PIN for your Windows 10 PC and your Apple IOS or Android phone - despite
the accounts having no relation to each other. Some might think it would
make life easier but would be still secured with a copmplex password -
which could (and should) be different for each account.

The modern reality is that it works much better to use
touch id or facial recognition on the iOS devices.

On 01/01/2020 14:52, Scott wrote:
On Wed, 1 Jan 2020 14:09:22 +0000, Michael Chare
wrote:

On 01/01/2020 11:14, Scott wrote:
Happy New Year

I'm asking the question here as I am fearful to ask in the W10 group
as I may not understand the answer :-)

I was persuaded by Microsoft to change to a PIN rather than a password
to log in (supposedly more secure). In my User account I still have
the option of PIN or password, which seems to me a less secure
position. How do I remove the password and make login by PIN only?
Does this require administrator rights?


I use www.tenforums.com for such questions. If you don't understand the
answer you could always post it hear.

Will try there.

If you don't have adminstrator
rights it would make me think that you might be using a work PC.

No. I have five accounts on my home PC. One is administrator. I
also have user accounts for myself and others. I understood it was
bad practice to run as an administrator all the time.

I have never used a Pin to log in to W10.

Me neither until yesterday when I discovered this is recommended by
Microsoft.

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/win...-than-password

Most of that that only really holds if you are talking about MS accounts
rather than local only PC accounts. It also assumes your machine has a
TPM module - which is quite likely for a laptop, but not that common on
desktop machines as yet.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Thu, 2 Jan 2020 07:12:27 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


The modern reality is that it works much better to use
touch id or facial recognition on the iOS devices.

YOUR only reality is that you got NOBODY, absolutely NOBODY to talk to in
real life! Which is the very reason why you pester people on Usenet where
they can't as easily get away from you as in real life!

--
Bill Wright addressing senile Ozzie cretin Rot Speed:
"Well you make up a lot of stuff and it's total ******** most of it."
MID:

On 01/01/2020 11:14, Scott wrote:
Happy New Year

I'm asking the question here as I am fearful to ask in the W10 group
as I may not understand the answer :-)

I was persuaded by Microsoft to change to a PIN rather than a password
to log in (supposedly more secure). In my User account I still have
the option of PIN or password, which seems to me a less secure
position. How do I remove the password and make login by PIN only?
Does this require administrator rights?

I don't believe that you can. If you do something in Windows that needs
the password it will prompt...

Dave

On 01/01/2020 11:14, Scott wrote:

I was persuaded by Microsoft to change to a PIN rather than a password
to log in (supposedly more secure).

Was this a cold call from someone in Microsofts' Indian call centre?


--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On Thu, 2 Jan 2020 09:39:26 +0000, alan_m
wrote:

On 01/01/2020 11:14, Scott wrote:

I was persuaded by Microsoft to change to a PIN rather than a password
to log in (supposedly more secure).

Was this a cold call from someone in Microsofts' Indian call centre?

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/win...-than-password

On Thu, 2 Jan 2020 08:36:25 +0000, David Wade
wrote:

On 01/01/2020 11:14, Scott wrote:
Happy New Year

I'm asking the question here as I am fearful to ask in the W10 group
as I may not understand the answer :-)

I was persuaded by Microsoft to change to a PIN rather than a password
to log in (supposedly more secure). In my User account I still have
the option of PIN or password, which seems to me a less secure
position. How do I remove the password and make login by PIN only?
Does this require administrator rights?

I don't believe that you can. If you do something in Windows that needs
the password it will prompt...

Thanks all. It sounds to me that the PIN idea is c**p and I should
disable PIN and set up a reasonable password for each account.