I left a plug fuse in my jacket pocket, which I then washed at 40
degrees (mix programme). Could I still use it (after drying out
obviously) or will its electrical properties be compromised?

I'd try it and see.
Is it one of those filled with what looks like talc?
Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Scott" wrote in message
...
I left a plug fuse in my jacket pocket, which I then washed at 40
degrees (mix programme). Could I still use it (after drying out
obviously) or will its electrical properties be compromised?

On Wed, 18 Dec 2019 20:35:25 -0000, "Brian Gaff \(Sofa 2\)"
wrote:

I'd try it and see.
Is it one of those filled with what looks like talc?
Brian

I don't know what's inside it and to find out would destroy the fuse.

Also, what if it appears to work? Could it not then let through far
more than the rated current?

As I say, it is not a serious question as I will be using a new fuse
out of the packet.

On Wednesday, 18 December 2019 19:58:02 UTC, Scott wrote:
I left a plug fuse in my jacket pocket, which I then washed at 40
degrees (mix programme). Could I still use it (after drying out
obviously) or will its electrical properties be compromised?

AIUI plug fuses are sand filled (unless they're counterfeit, when they're not)

I suppose it would work okay in normal use as the fusewire would have lower resistance than the damp sand, but if a fault ruptured the fusewire all the current would pass through the damp sand, which might then explode.

You could try it in the garden with a very long extension lead ...

Owain

On Wed, 18 Dec 2019 12:56:53 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

On Wednesday, 18 December 2019 19:58:02 UTC, Scott wrote:
I left a plug fuse in my jacket pocket, which I then washed at 40
degrees (mix programme). Could I still use it (after drying out
obviously) or will its electrical properties be compromised?

AIUI plug fuses are sand filled (unless they're counterfeit, when they're not)

I suppose it would work okay in normal use as the fusewire would have lower resistance than the damp sand, but if a fault ruptured the fusewire all the current would pass through the damp sand, which might then explode.

You could try it in the garden with a very long extension lead ...

What if the damp sand cooled the fusewire? Could it not then allow an
excess current to pass?

Since you raise the issue, is there a way to identify counterfeit
fuses? Can it be done by weight or perhaps by sound?

On Wednesday, 18 December 2019 21:04:41 UTC, Scott wrote:
Since you raise the issue, is there a way to identify counterfeit
fuses? Can it be done by weight or perhaps by sound?

"A genuine BS1362 fuse weight is 2 grams on average, anything higher or lower than this weight could mean it has not been filled with the required quartz sand."
https://www.electricalworld.com/en/N...uses/n-27.aspx

"The combined weight of the 8 fuses is 18g. The weight of 8 genuine fuses on the same scales is 23g. "
https://www.pat-testing-training.net...fake-fuses.php

with video of fake fuse going bang

Owain

On Wed, 18 Dec 2019 13:29:38 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

On Wednesday, 18 December 2019 21:04:41 UTC, Scott wrote:
Since you raise the issue, is there a way to identify counterfeit
fuses? Can it be done by weight or perhaps by sound?

"A genuine BS1362 fuse weight is 2 grams on average, anything higher or lower than this weight could mean it has not been filled with the required quartz sand."
https://www.electricalworld.com/en/N...uses/n-27.aspx

"The combined weight of the 8 fuses is 18g. The weight of 8 genuine fuses on the same scales is 23g. "
https://www.pat-testing-training.net...fake-fuses.php

with video of fake fuse going bang

Thanks very much. Is the weight the same regardless of amperage?

The links are helpful too.

On Wednesday, 18 December 2019 21:36:00 UTC, Scott wrote:
Thanks very much. Is the weight the same regardless of amperage?

I would expect so, within the resolution of domestically-available scales for the variation in thickness of the fuse wire.

If you've got access to a lab that can weigh an anorexic gnat's todger - or are weighting batches of thousands of identical fuses - you might be able to discern a difference.

Owain

Scott wrote:
I left a plug fuse in my jacket pocket, which I then washed at 40
degrees (mix programme). Could I still use it (after drying out
obviously) or will its electrical properties be compromised?

I would think it would dry out in short order.

On 18/12/2019 21:50, wrote:
On Wednesday, 18 December 2019 21:36:00 UTC, Scott wrote:
Thanks very much. Is the weight the same regardless of amperage?

I would expect so, within the resolution of domestically-available scales for the variation in thickness of the fuse wire.

Less the variation in weight of the displaced sand.

Bill

Well your question is unanswerable but assuming its not got wet inside and
is simply glass and wire, I think it will be fine. Fuses are pretty crude
devices, and long before it got to its rated blowing current, I'd imagine
the heat would evaporate the water.
Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Scott" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 18 Dec 2019 20:35:25 -0000, "Brian Gaff \(Sofa 2\)"
wrote:

I'd try it and see.
Is it one of those filled with what looks like talc?
Brian

I don't know what's inside it and to find out would destroy the fuse.

Also, what if it appears to work? Could it not then let through far
more than the rated current?

As I say, it is not a serious question as I will be using a new fuse
out of the packet.

On 18/12/2019 19:57, Scott wrote:

I left a plug fuse in my jacket pocket, which I then washed at 40
degrees (mix programme). Could I still use it (after drying out
obviously) or will its electrical properties be compromised?

For the price of a fuse I would not risk it, since its impossible to say
how it would perform under fault conditions. Any moisture inside would
convert to steam on a high current fault, and make the enclosure more
likely to rupture.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Thu, 19 Dec 2019 03:41:46 +0000, Bill Wright
wrote:

On 18/12/2019 21:50, wrote:
On Wednesday, 18 December 2019 21:36:00 UTC, Scott wrote:
Thanks very much. Is the weight the same regardless of amperage?

I would expect so, within the resolution of domestically-available scales for the variation in thickness of the fuse wire.

Less the variation in weight of the displaced sand.

You're on the the ball this morning, Mr.

On Thu, 19 Dec 2019 09:35:42 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 18/12/2019 19:57, Scott wrote:

I left a plug fuse in my jacket pocket, which I then washed at 40
degrees (mix programme). Could I still use it (after drying out
obviously) or will its electrical properties be compromised?

For the price of a fuse I would not risk it, since its impossible to say
how it would perform under fault conditions. Any moisture inside would
convert to steam on a high current fault, and make the enclosure more
likely to rupture.

Thanks. Seriously, that was my plan but I just wondered out of
curiosity.

On Thursday, 19 December 2019 10:21:08 UTC, Scott wrote:
On Thu, 19 Dec 2019 09:35:42 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 18/12/2019 19:57, Scott wrote:

I left a plug fuse in my jacket pocket, which I then washed at 40
degrees (mix programme). Could I still use it (after drying out
obviously) or will its electrical properties be compromised?

For the price of a fuse I would not risk it, since its impossible to say
how it would perform under fault conditions. Any moisture inside would
convert to steam on a high current fault, and make the enclosure more
likely to rupture.

Thanks. Seriously, that was my plan but I just wondered out of
curiosity.

It would need to be dried out, eg in an oven at a bit above 100C. Trouble is you'd be hard pressed to tell when it was dry. If water remained it would explode under heavy fault current. Mains plug fuses are metal wire connected to metal end caps with a ceramic tube filled with sand, so the materials themselves would not be affected significantly by short water exposure.

wrote in message
...
On Thursday, 19 December 2019 10:21:08 UTC, Scott wrote:
On Thu, 19 Dec 2019 09:35:42 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 18/12/2019 19:57, Scott wrote:

I left a plug fuse in my jacket pocket, which I then washed at 40
degrees (mix programme). Could I still use it (after drying out
obviously) or will its electrical properties be compromised?

For the price of a fuse I would not risk it, since its impossible to say
how it would perform under fault conditions. Any moisture inside would
convert to steam on a high current fault, and make the enclosure more
likely to rupture.

Thanks. Seriously, that was my plan but I just wondered out of
curiosity.

It would need to be dried out, eg in an oven at a bit above 100C.
Trouble is you'd be hard pressed to tell when it was dry.

The normal way to do that is to keep weighing it until the weight
doesnt drop anymore. And you dont need accurate scales for that
either, just a simple beam balance with another of those fuses.

If water remained it would explode under heavy fault current.
Mains plug fuses are metal wire connected to metal end caps
with a ceramic tube filled with sand, so the materials themselves
would not be affected significantly by short water exposure.

On Thursday, 19 December 2019 03:41:47 UTC, Bill Wright wrote:
On 18/12/2019 21:50, wrote:
On Wednesday, 18 December 2019 21:36:00 UTC, Scott wrote:
Thanks very much. Is the weight the same regardless of amperage?

I would expect so, within the resolution of domestically-available scales for the variation in thickness of the fuse wire.

Less the variation in weight of the displaced sand.

But would that sand weigh more than the extra thickness of the fuse wire ?

Occasionaly I've picked up a resistor (when a student has asked me what reistance it is) and held it in my hand and said that weighs about 1 kilo ohm.

They look at me in amazement, then I say I know it's 1k because of the colour code that's why you should know the resistor colour code and how to use it !.

On Thursday, 19 December 2019 11:34:16 UTC, Rod Speed wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Thursday, 19 December 2019 10:21:08 UTC, Scott wrote:
On Thu, 19 Dec 2019 09:35:42 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 18/12/2019 19:57, Scott wrote:

I left a plug fuse in my jacket pocket, which I then washed at 40
degrees (mix programme). Could I still use it (after drying out
obviously) or will its electrical properties be compromised?

For the price of a fuse I would not risk it, since its impossible to say
how it would perform under fault conditions. Any moisture inside would
convert to steam on a high current fault, and make the enclosure more
likely to rupture.

Thanks. Seriously, that was my plan but I just wondered out of
curiosity.

It would need to be dried out, eg in an oven at a bit above 100C.
Trouble is you'd be hard pressed to tell when it was dry.

The normal way to do that is to keep weighing it until the weight
doesnt drop anymore. And you dont need accurate scales for that
either, just a simple beam balance with another of those fuses.

Yes that's true I have a see-saw arrangment I could try that on.
I've just weighed 3 3amp fuses and 3 13 amp fuses and they all weigh between 2.36g and 2.44g

I've now placed a 2.41g fuse in some warm water.
I'll report back later today on it's weight.




If water remained it would explode under heavy fault current.
Mains plug fuses are metal wire connected to metal end caps
with a ceramic tube filled with sand, so the materials themselves
would not be affected significantly by short water exposure.

On Thu, 19 Dec 2019 22:34:01 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


It would need to be dried out, eg in an oven at a bit above 100C.
Trouble is you'd be hard pressed to tell when it was dry.

The normal way to do that is to keep weighing it until the weight
doesn¢t drop anymore. And you don¢t need accurate scales for that
either, just a simple beam balance with another of those fuses.

You'd better worry about that fuse in your head that has blown already LONG
time ago, you clinically insane trolling senile cretin from Australia!

--
Website (from 2007) dedicated to the 85-year-old trolling senile
cretin from Oz:
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/r...d-faq.2973853/

Scott wrote:
On Wed, 18 Dec 2019 20:35:25 -0000, "Brian Gaff \(Sofa 2\)"
wrote:

I'd try it and see.
Is it one of those filled with what looks like talc?
Brian

I don't know what's inside it and to find out would destroy the fuse.

Also, what if it appears to work? Could it not then let through far
more than the rated current?

Hardly, the resistance of the wire inside it will be a fraction of an
ohm, the resistance of the 'damp sand' (or whatever) will be tens if
not hundreds of ohms. Water isn't a very good conductor, distilled
water is almost an insulator, it's mostly down to dissolved impurities
that water conducts at all.

--
Chris Green
·

On Thu, 19 Dec 2019 15:19:43 +0000, Chris Green wrote:

Scott wrote:
On Wed, 18 Dec 2019 20:35:25 -0000, "Brian Gaff \(Sofa 2\)"
wrote:

I'd try it and see.
Is it one of those filled with what looks like talc?
Brian

I don't know what's inside it and to find out would destroy the fuse.

Also, what if it appears to work? Could it not then let through far
more than the rated current?

Hardly, the resistance of the wire inside it will be a fraction of an
ohm, the resistance of the 'damp sand' (or whatever) will be tens if
not hundreds of ohms. Water isn't a very good conductor, distilled
water is almost an insulator, it's mostly down to dissolved impurities
that water conducts at all.

Would detergent make a difference when it has been in the washing
machine - or heat?

(Again, not a serious question as I shall use a new fuse out of the
packet when the time comes. )

On Thu, 19 Dec 2019 15:19:43 +0000, Chris Green wrote:

Scott wrote:
On Wed, 18 Dec 2019 20:35:25 -0000, "Brian Gaff \(Sofa 2\)"
wrote:

I'd try it and see.
Is it one of those filled with what looks like talc?
Brian

I don't know what's inside it and to find out would destroy the fuse.

Also, what if it appears to work? Could it not then let through far
more than the rated current?

Hardly, the resistance of the wire inside it will be a fraction of an
ohm, the resistance of the 'damp sand' (or whatever) will be tens if
not hundreds of ohms. Water isn't a very good conductor, distilled
water is almost an insulator, it's mostly down to dissolved impurities
that water conducts at all.

Would detergent make a difference when it has been in the washing
machine - or indeed heat?

(Again, not a serious question as I shall use a new fuse from the
packet when the time comes.)

"Scott" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 19 Dec 2019 15:19:43 +0000, Chris Green wrote:

Scott wrote:
On Wed, 18 Dec 2019 20:35:25 -0000, "Brian Gaff \(Sofa 2\)"
wrote:

I'd try it and see.
Is it one of those filled with what looks like talc?
Brian

I don't know what's inside it and to find out would destroy the fuse.

Also, what if it appears to work? Could it not then let through far
more than the rated current?

Hardly, the resistance of the wire inside it will be a fraction of an
ohm, the resistance of the 'damp sand' (or whatever) will be tens if
not hundreds of ohms. Water isn't a very good conductor, distilled
water is almost an insulator, it's mostly down to dissolved impurities
that water conducts at all.

Would detergent make a difference when it has been in the washing
machine - or heat?

Yep, it should make it easier to get water in past the end caps.

(Again, not a serious question as I shall use a new fuse out of the
packet when the time comes. )

Scott wrote:
On Thu, 19 Dec 2019 15:19:43 +0000, Chris Green wrote:

Scott wrote:
On Wed, 18 Dec 2019 20:35:25 -0000, "Brian Gaff \(Sofa 2\)"
wrote:

I'd try it and see.
Is it one of those filled with what looks like talc?
Brian

I don't know what's inside it and to find out would destroy the fuse.

Also, what if it appears to work? Could it not then let through far
more than the rated current?

Hardly, the resistance of the wire inside it will be a fraction of an
ohm, the resistance of the 'damp sand' (or whatever) will be tens if
not hundreds of ohms. Water isn't a very good conductor, distilled
water is almost an insulator, it's mostly down to dissolved impurities
that water conducts at all.

Would detergent make a difference when it has been in the washing
machine - or heat?

It would make it somewhat conductive as opposed to not conductive at
all but I still think the resistance of the 'damp sand' would be up in
the hundreds of ohms.

--
Chris Green
·

On Fri, 20 Dec 2019 04:32:38 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH senile asshole's latest troll****

04:32??? LOL

--
about senile Rot Speed:
"This is like having a conversation with someone with brain damage."
MID:

On 19/12/2019 10:21, Scott wrote:
On Thu, 19 Dec 2019 09:35:42 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 18/12/2019 19:57, Scott wrote:

I left a plug fuse in my jacket pocket, which I then washed at 40
degrees (mix programme). Could I still use it (after drying out
obviously) or will its electrical properties be compromised?

For the price of a fuse I would not risk it, since its impossible to say
how it would perform under fault conditions. Any moisture inside would
convert to steam on a high current fault, and make the enclosure more
likely to rupture.

Thanks. Seriously, that was my plan but I just wondered out of
curiosity.


Why not cut the end off and see if it wet inside.

--
Adam

On Thursday, 19 December 2019 12:31:37 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:
On Thursday, 19 December 2019 11:34:16 UTC, Rod Speed wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Thursday, 19 December 2019 10:21:08 UTC, Scott wrote:
On Thu, 19 Dec 2019 09:35:42 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 18/12/2019 19:57, Scott wrote:

I left a plug fuse in my jacket pocket, which I then washed at 40
degrees (mix programme). Could I still use it (after drying out
obviously) or will its electrical properties be compromised?

For the price of a fuse I would not risk it, since its impossible to say
how it would perform under fault conditions. Any moisture inside would
convert to steam on a high current fault, and make the enclosure more
likely to rupture.

Thanks. Seriously, that was my plan but I just wondered out of
curiosity.

It would need to be dried out, eg in an oven at a bit above 100C.
Trouble is you'd be hard pressed to tell when it was dry.

The normal way to do that is to keep weighing it until the weight
doesnt drop anymore. And you dont need accurate scales for that
either, just a simple beam balance with another of those fuses.

Yes that's true I have a see-saw arrangment I could try that on.
I've just weighed 3 3amp fuses and 3 13 amp fuses and they all weigh between 2.36g and 2.44g

I've now placed a 2.41g fuse in some warm water.
I'll report back later today on it's weight.

Well 22 hours later and the fuse weighs 2.41g

How would water get into a fuse I wonder.





If water remained it would explode under heavy fault current.
Mains plug fuses are metal wire connected to metal end caps
with a ceramic tube filled with sand, so the materials themselves
would not be affected significantly by short water exposure.

On Fri, 20 Dec 2019 03:17:17 -0800 (PST), whisky-dave
wrote:

On Thursday, 19 December 2019 12:31:37 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:
On Thursday, 19 December 2019 11:34:16 UTC, Rod Speed wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Thursday, 19 December 2019 10:21:08 UTC, Scott wrote:
On Thu, 19 Dec 2019 09:35:42 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 18/12/2019 19:57, Scott wrote:

I left a plug fuse in my jacket pocket, which I then washed at 40
degrees (mix programme). Could I still use it (after drying out
obviously) or will its electrical properties be compromised?

For the price of a fuse I would not risk it, since its impossible to say
how it would perform under fault conditions. Any moisture inside would
convert to steam on a high current fault, and make the enclosure more
likely to rupture.

Thanks. Seriously, that was my plan but I just wondered out of
curiosity.

It would need to be dried out, eg in an oven at a bit above 100C.
Trouble is you'd be hard pressed to tell when it was dry.

The normal way to do that is to keep weighing it until the weight
doesn’t drop anymore. And you don’t need accurate scales for that
either, just a simple beam balance with another of those fuses.

Yes that's true I have a see-saw arrangment I could try that on.
I've just weighed 3 3amp fuses and 3 13 amp fuses and they all weigh between 2.36g and 2.44g

I've now placed a 2.41g fuse in some warm water.
I'll report back later today on it's weight.

Well 22 hours later and the fuse weighs 2.41g

How would water get into a fuse I wonder.

What scales are you using BTW? I'm looking at Acuweight jewellery
scales.

"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Thursday, 19 December 2019 12:31:37 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:
On Thursday, 19 December 2019 11:34:16 UTC, Rod Speed wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Thursday, 19 December 2019 10:21:08 UTC, Scott wrote:
On Thu, 19 Dec 2019 09:35:42 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 18/12/2019 19:57, Scott wrote:

I left a plug fuse in my jacket pocket, which I then washed at 40
degrees (mix programme). Could I still use it (after drying out
obviously) or will its electrical properties be compromised?

For the price of a fuse I would not risk it, since its impossible
to say
how it would perform under fault conditions. Any moisture inside
would
convert to steam on a high current fault, and make the enclosure
more
likely to rupture.

Thanks. Seriously, that was my plan but I just wondered out of
curiosity.

It would need to be dried out, eg in an oven at a bit above 100C.
Trouble is you'd be hard pressed to tell when it was dry.

The normal way to do that is to keep weighing it until the weight
doesnt drop anymore. And you dont need accurate scales for that
either, just a simple beam balance with another of those fuses.

Yes that's true I have a see-saw arrangment I could try that on.
I've just weighed 3 3amp fuses and 3 13 amp fuses and they all weigh
between 2.36g and 2.44g

I've now placed a 2.41g fuse in some warm water.
I'll report back later today on it's weight.

Well 22 hours later and the fuse weighs 2.41g

How would water get into a fuse I wonder.

I doubt the metal caps are water tight
and it may be possible to get some
vacuum effect as it cools down in
a washing machine at the end of the
hot wash followed by an cold rinse.

If water remained it would explode under heavy fault current.
Mains plug fuses are metal wire connected to metal end caps
with a ceramic tube filled with sand, so the materials themselves
would not be affected significantly by short water exposure.

On Sat, 21 Dec 2019 05:12:42 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the two senile assholes' endless blather

--
Website (from 2007) dedicated to the 85-year-old trolling senile
cretin from Oz:
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/r...d-faq.2973853/

On 19/12/2019 15:52, Scott wrote:
On Thu, 19 Dec 2019 15:19:43 +0000, Chris Green wrote:

Scott wrote:
On Wed, 18 Dec 2019 20:35:25 -0000, "Brian Gaff \(Sofa 2\)"
wrote:

I'd try it and see.
Is it one of those filled with what looks like talc?
Brian

I don't know what's inside it and to find out would destroy the fuse.

Also, what if it appears to work? Could it not then let through far
more than the rated current?

Hardly, the resistance of the wire inside it will be a fraction of an
ohm, the resistance of the 'damp sand' (or whatever) will be tens if
not hundreds of ohms. Water isn't a very good conductor, distilled
water is almost an insulator, it's mostly down to dissolved impurities
that water conducts at all.

Would detergent make a difference when it has been in the washing
machine - or heat?


From recent experience...

The heating element in my washing machine finally gave up the ghost.
It failed in the middle of wash cycle (water+detergent), taking out the
13A fuse in the plug and the 32A ring main MCB.

Reset MCB, replaced plug fuse, I tried to do a plain rinse cycle - empty
drum, straight mains water (idea being I could use the machine to rinse
and spin the half washed load before the element is replaced).
Turns out the rinse cycle turns on the heater.
Blue flash from drum, but this time only the 13A fuse went. The MCB was
untouched.

Conclusion: Mains Water+Detergent is a better conductor than mains water
alone.

(Heating element should arrive today, will probably take 90 minutes to
replace - 30 minutes to strip+rebuild, 60 minutes to get the b'stard
wire+spring seal retainer back on.)

On Tuesday, 24 December 2019 09:45:09 UTC, John Kenyon wrote:
On 19/12/2019 15:52, Scott wrote:
On Thu, 19 Dec 2019 15:19:43 +0000, Chris Green wrote:

Scott wrote:
On Wed, 18 Dec 2019 20:35:25 -0000, "Brian Gaff \(Sofa 2\)"
wrote:

I'd try it and see.
Is it one of those filled with what looks like talc?
Brian

I don't know what's inside it and to find out would destroy the fuse.

Also, what if it appears to work? Could it not then let through far
more than the rated current?

Hardly, the resistance of the wire inside it will be a fraction of an
ohm, the resistance of the 'damp sand' (or whatever) will be tens if
not hundreds of ohms. Water isn't a very good conductor, distilled
water is almost an insulator, it's mostly down to dissolved impurities
that water conducts at all.

Would detergent make a difference when it has been in the washing
machine - or heat?


From recent experience...

The heating element in my washing machine finally gave up the ghost.
It failed in the middle of wash cycle (water+detergent), taking out the
13A fuse in the plug and the 32A ring main MCB.

Reset MCB, replaced plug fuse, I tried to do a plain rinse cycle - empty
drum, straight mains water (idea being I could use the machine to rinse
and spin the half washed load before the element is replaced).
Turns out the rinse cycle turns on the heater.
Blue flash from drum, but this time only the 13A fuse went. The MCB was
untouched.

Conclusion: Mains Water+Detergent is a better conductor than mains water
alone.

it is. since it would be in parallel with a dead short in a fuse it would work, it would just change the fusing characteristics, possibly not in a good way if it enabled arc-over.


NT

On 24/12/2019 09:38, John Kenyon wrote:
On 19/12/2019 15:52, Scott wrote:
On Thu, 19 Dec 2019 15:19:43 +0000, Chris Green wrote:

Scott wrote:
On Wed, 18 Dec 2019 20:35:25 -0000, "Brian Gaff \(Sofa 2\)"
wrote:

I'd try it and see.
Is it one of those filled with what looks like talc?
Brian

I don't know what's inside it and to find out would destroy the fuse.

Also, what if it appears to work? Could it not then let through far
more than the rated current?

Hardly, the resistance of the wire inside it will be a fraction of an
ohm, the resistance of the 'damp sand' (or whatever) will be tens if
not hundreds of ohms. Water isn't a very good conductor, distilled
water is almost an insulator, it's mostly down to dissolved impurities
that water conducts at all.

Would detergent make a difference when it has been in the washing
machine - or heat?


From recent experience...

The heating element in my washing machine finally gave up the ghost.
It failed in the middle of wash cycle (water+detergent), taking out the
13A fuse in the plug and the 32A ring main MCB.

Reset MCB, replaced plug fuse, I tried to do a plain rinse cycle - empty
drum, straight mains water (idea being I could use the machine to rinse
and spin the half washed load before the element is replaced).
Turns out the rinse cycle turns on the heater.
Blue flash from drum, but this time only the 13A fuse went. The MCB was
untouched.

Conclusion: Mains Water+Detergent is a better conductor than mains water
alone.

(Heating element should arrive today, will probably take 90 minutes to
replace - 30 minutes to strip+rebuild, 60 minutes to get the b'stard
wire+spring seal retainer back on.)

The last heater element I replaced took 5 minutes. All it required was
the mains and earth connectors pulling off, a single clamping nut
slackening to reduce the pressure on the rubber seal and the whole
heater just pulled out. Replacement was, in the words of a Haynes
manual, the reverse of removal. Nothing else needed to be touched.

SteveW

On 24/12/2019 21:12, Steve Walker wrote:
On 24/12/2019 09:38, John Kenyon wrote:
On 19/12/2019 15:52, Scott wrote:
On Thu, 19 Dec 2019 15:19:43 +0000, Chris Green wrote:

Scott wrote:
On Wed, 18 Dec 2019 20:35:25 -0000, "Brian Gaff \(Sofa 2\)"
wrote:

I'd try it and see.
Is it one of those filled with what looks like talc?
Brian

I don't know what's inside it and to find out would destroy the fuse.

Also, what if it appears to work? Could it not then let through far
more than the rated current?

Hardly, the resistance of the wire inside it will be a fraction of an
ohm, the resistance of the 'damp sand' (or whatever) will be tens if
not hundreds of ohms. Water isn't a very good conductor, distilled
water is almost an insulator, it's mostly down to dissolved impurities
that water conducts at all.

Would detergent make a difference when it has been in the washing
machine - or heat?


From recent experience...

The heating element in my washing machine finally gave up the ghost.
It failed in the middle of wash cycle (water+detergent), taking out the
13A fuse in the plug and the 32A ring main MCB.

Reset MCB, replaced plug fuse, I tried to do a plain rinse cycle - empty
drum, straight mains water (idea being I could use the machine to rinse
and spin the half washed load before the element is replaced).
Turns out the rinse cycle turns on the heater.
Blue flash from drum, but this time only the 13A fuse went. The MCB was
untouched.

Conclusion: Mains Water+Detergent is a better conductor than mains water
alone.

(Heating element should arrive today, will probably take 90 minutes to
replace - 30 minutes to strip+rebuild, 60 minutes to get the b'stard
wire+spring seal retainer back on.)

The last heater element I replaced took 5 minutes. All it required was
the mains and earth connectors pulling off, a single clamping nut
slackening to reduce the pressure on the rubber seal and the whole
heater just pulled out. Replacement was, in the words of a Haynes
manual, the reverse of removal. Nothing else needed to be touched.

SteveW

Replacing the element hardly took 5 minutes - it's gaining access that
takes the time.

On a Bosch, the only thing you do from the back is replace the drum belt.

Remove lid (2 screws+slide off)
Remove front panel (3 screws from front, smaller screw on side).
Remove kick panel (1 screw)
Open door, remove seal retainer, and separate seal from front panel.
Remove two screws at bottom of panel, carefully separate, and then reach
down and unclip the plastic cable management device from the front
panel, and then unclip the wiring loom from the door lock.
Put panel to one side.

Then you are into the "5 minute" job.
(noting that on a Bosch you need to transfer the thermostat from the old
element to the new one)

On 29/12/2019 14:39, John Kenyon wrote:
On 24/12/2019 21:12, Steve Walker wrote:
On 24/12/2019 09:38, John Kenyon wrote:
On 19/12/2019 15:52, Scott wrote:
On Thu, 19 Dec 2019 15:19:43 +0000, Chris Green wrote:

Scott wrote:
On Wed, 18 Dec 2019 20:35:25 -0000, "Brian Gaff \(Sofa 2\)"
wrote:

I'd try it and see.
Is it one of those filled with what looks like talc?
Brian

I don't know what's inside it and to find out would destroy the fuse.

Also, what if it appears to work? Could it not then let through far
more than the rated current?

Hardly, the resistance of the wire inside it will be a fraction of an
ohm, the resistance of the 'damp sand' (or whatever) will be tens if
not hundreds of ohms. Water isn't a very good conductor, distilled
water is almost an insulator, it's mostly down to dissolved impurities
that water conducts at all.

Would detergent make a difference when it has been in the washing
machine - or heat?


From recent experience...

The heating element in my washing machine finally gave up the ghost.
It failed in the middle of wash cycle (water+detergent), taking out the
13A fuse in the plug and the 32A ring main MCB.

Reset MCB, replaced plug fuse, I tried to do a plain rinse cycle - empty
drum, straight mains water (idea being I could use the machine to rinse
and spin the half washed load before the element is replaced).
Turns out the rinse cycle turns on the heater.
Blue flash from drum, but this time only the 13A fuse went. The MCB was
untouched.

Conclusion: Mains Water+Detergent is a better conductor than mains water
alone.

(Heating element should arrive today, will probably take 90 minutes to
replace - 30 minutes to strip+rebuild, 60 minutes to get the b'stard
wire+spring seal retainer back on.)

The last heater element I replaced took 5 minutes. All it required was
the mains and earth connectors pulling off, a single clamping nut
slackening to reduce the pressure on the rubber seal and the whole
heater just pulled out. Replacement was, in the words of a Haynes
manual, the reverse of removal. Nothing else needed to be touched.

SteveW

Replacing the element hardly took 5 minutes - it's gaining access that
takes the time.

On a Bosch, the only thing you do from the back is replace the drum belt.

Remove lid (2 screws+slide off)
Remove front panel (3 screws from front, smaller screw on side).
Remove kick panel (1 screw)
Open door, remove seal retainer, and separate seal from front panel.
Remove two screws at bottom of panel, carefully separate, and then reach
down and unclip the plastic cable management device from the front
panel, and then unclip the wiring loom from the door lock.
Put panel to one side.

Then you are into the "5 minute" job.
(noting that on a Bosch you need to transfer the thermostat from the old
element to the new one)

Ours is a Hotpoint - unplug, slide out, unscrew and remove back cover,
pull off heater power connectors, loosen clamping screw, pull out
heater, then do the reverse.

SteveW

On 30/12/2019 00:41, Steve Walker wrote:


Ours is a Hotpoint - unplug, slide out, unscrew and remove back cover,
pull off heater power connectors, loosen clamping screw, pull out
heater, then do the reverse.



To do it properly you have to lose a screw that rolls out of sight.


--
Adam

On 29/12/2019 14:39, John Kenyon wrote:
On 24/12/2019 21:12, Steve Walker wrote:
On 24/12/2019 09:38, John Kenyon wrote:
On 19/12/2019 15:52, Scott wrote:
On Thu, 19 Dec 2019 15:19:43 +0000, Chris Green wrote:

Scott wrote:
On Wed, 18 Dec 2019 20:35:25 -0000, "Brian Gaff \(Sofa 2\)"
wrote:

I'd try it and see.
Is it one of those filled with what looks like talc?
Brian

I don't know what's inside it and to find out would destroy the fuse.

Also, what if it appears to work? Could it not then let through far
more than the rated current?

Hardly, the resistance of the wire inside it will be a fraction of an
ohm, the resistance of the 'damp sand' (or whatever) will be tens if
not hundreds of ohms. Water isn't a very good conductor, distilled
water is almost an insulator, it's mostly down to dissolved impurities
that water conducts at all.

Would detergent make a difference when it has been in the washing
machine - or heat?


From recent experience...

The heating element in my washing machine finally gave up the ghost.
It failed in the middle of wash cycle (water+detergent), taking out the
13A fuse in the plug and the 32A ring main MCB.

Reset MCB, replaced plug fuse, I tried to do a plain rinse cycle - empty
drum, straight mains water (idea being I could use the machine to rinse
and spin the half washed load before the element is replaced).
Turns out the rinse cycle turns on the heater.
Blue flash from drum, but this time only the 13A fuse went. The MCB was
untouched.

Conclusion: Mains Water+Detergent is a better conductor than mains water
alone.

(Heating element should arrive today, will probably take 90 minutes to
replace - 30 minutes to strip+rebuild, 60 minutes to get the b'stard
wire+spring seal retainer back on.)

The last heater element I replaced took 5 minutes. All it required was
the mains and earth connectors pulling off, a single clamping nut
slackening to reduce the pressure on the rubber seal and the whole
heater just pulled out. Replacement was, in the words of a Haynes
manual, the reverse of removal. Nothing else needed to be touched.

SteveW

Replacing the element hardly took 5 minutes - it's gaining access that
takes the time.

On a Bosch, the only thing you do from the back is replace the drum belt.

Remove lid (2 screws+slide off)
Remove front panel (3 screws from front, smaller screw on side).
Remove kick panel (1 screw)
Open door, remove seal retainer, and separate seal from front panel.
Remove two screws at bottom of panel, carefully separate, and then reach
down and unclip the plastic cable management device from the front
panel, and then unclip the wiring loom from the door lock.
Put panel to one side.

Then you are into the "5 minute" job.
(noting that on a Bosch you need to transfer the thermostat from the old
element to the new one)

Yup, I have done similar on our Bosch:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...irs_-_examples



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Friday, 20 December 2019 15:40:06 UTC, Scott wrote:
On Fri, 20 Dec 2019 03:17:17 -0800 (PST), whisky-dave
wrote:

On Thursday, 19 December 2019 12:31:37 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:
On Thursday, 19 December 2019 11:34:16 UTC, Rod Speed wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Thursday, 19 December 2019 10:21:08 UTC, Scott wrote:
On Thu, 19 Dec 2019 09:35:42 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 18/12/2019 19:57, Scott wrote:

I left a plug fuse in my jacket pocket, which I then washed at 40
degrees (mix programme). Could I still use it (after drying out
obviously) or will its electrical properties be compromised?

For the price of a fuse I would not risk it, since its impossible to say
how it would perform under fault conditions. Any moisture inside would
convert to steam on a high current fault, and make the enclosure more
likely to rupture.

Thanks. Seriously, that was my plan but I just wondered out of
curiosity.

It would need to be dried out, eg in an oven at a bit above 100C.
Trouble is you'd be hard pressed to tell when it was dry.

The normal way to do that is to keep weighing it until the weight
doesnt drop anymore. And you dont need accurate scales for that
either, just a simple beam balance with another of those fuses.

Yes that's true I have a see-saw arrangment I could try that on.
I've just weighed 3 3amp fuses and 3 13 amp fuses and they all weigh between 2.36g and 2.44g

I've now placed a 2.41g fuse in some warm water.
I'll report back later today on it's weight.

Well 22 hours later and the fuse weighs 2.41g

How would water get into a fuse I wonder.

What scales are you using BTW? I'm looking at Acuweight jewellery
scales.

Shouldn't really matter but ours are scalix 'precision' costing about £30
0-600g and the display reads to two decimal places.
So I'd estimate a precision of aboit + or - .02g

which I think is close enough to prove the point being made.

On Friday, 20 December 2019 18:19:29 UTC, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Thursday, 19 December 2019 12:31:37 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:
On Thursday, 19 December 2019 11:34:16 UTC, Rod Speed wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Thursday, 19 December 2019 10:21:08 UTC, Scott wrote:
On Thu, 19 Dec 2019 09:35:42 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 18/12/2019 19:57, Scott wrote:

I left a plug fuse in my jacket pocket, which I then washed at 40
degrees (mix programme). Could I still use it (after drying out
obviously) or will its electrical properties be compromised?

For the price of a fuse I would not risk it, since its impossible
to say
how it would perform under fault conditions. Any moisture inside
would
convert to steam on a high current fault, and make the enclosure
more
likely to rupture.

Thanks. Seriously, that was my plan but I just wondered out of
curiosity.

It would need to be dried out, eg in an oven at a bit above 100C.
Trouble is you'd be hard pressed to tell when it was dry.

The normal way to do that is to keep weighing it until the weight
doesnt drop anymore. And you dont need accurate scales for that
either, just a simple beam balance with another of those fuses.

Yes that's true I have a see-saw arrangment I could try that on.
I've just weighed 3 3amp fuses and 3 13 amp fuses and they all weigh
between 2.36g and 2.44g

I've now placed a 2.41g fuse in some warm water.
I'll report back later today on it's weight.

Well 22 hours later and the fuse weighs 2.41g

How would water get into a fuse I wonder.

I doubt the metal caps are water tight

The ones here seem to be tried a few.
They are also perhaps 10+ years old so not the cheap chinese
stuff you might be buying on ebay.

and it may be possible to get some
vacuum effect as it cools down in
a washing machine at the end of the
hot wash followed by an cold rinse.

yeah sure with cheap fuses.
I also tried it with a couple of glass fuses, no sighn of water getting in.

"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Friday, 20 December 2019 18:19:29 UTC, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Thursday, 19 December 2019 12:31:37 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:
On Thursday, 19 December 2019 11:34:16 UTC, Rod Speed wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Thursday, 19 December 2019 10:21:08 UTC, Scott wrote:
On Thu, 19 Dec 2019 09:35:42 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 18/12/2019 19:57, Scott wrote:

I left a plug fuse in my jacket pocket, which I then washed at
40
degrees (mix programme). Could I still use it (after drying
out
obviously) or will its electrical properties be compromised?

For the price of a fuse I would not risk it, since its
impossible
to say
how it would perform under fault conditions. Any moisture inside
would
convert to steam on a high current fault, and make the enclosure
more
likely to rupture.

Thanks. Seriously, that was my plan but I just wondered out of
curiosity.

It would need to be dried out, eg in an oven at a bit above 100C.
Trouble is you'd be hard pressed to tell when it was dry.

The normal way to do that is to keep weighing it until the weight
doesnt drop anymore. And you dont need accurate scales for that
either, just a simple beam balance with another of those fuses.

Yes that's true I have a see-saw arrangment I could try that on.
I've just weighed 3 3amp fuses and 3 13 amp fuses and they all weigh
between 2.36g and 2.44g

I've now placed a 2.41g fuse in some warm water.
I'll report back later today on it's weight.

Well 22 hours later and the fuse weighs 2.41g

How would water get into a fuse I wonder.

I doubt the metal caps are water tight

The ones here seem to be tried a few.
They are also perhaps 10+ years old so not the cheap chinese
stuff you might be buying on ebay.

I actually stole them from work and they would be
about 40 years old. Havent tried to see how water
tight they are in a washing machine hot cycle tho.

and it may be possible to get some
vacuum effect as it cools down in
a washing machine at the end of the
hot wash followed by a cold rinse.

yeah sure with cheap fuses.
I also tried it with a couple of glass fuses, no sighn of water getting
in.

But did you try it in a washing machine hot wash full cycle ?