"Mike Mitchell" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 10:37:42 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Jerry Built wrote:
How many repair businesses do you see with an inspection pit? Not
many (any?). Why do they prefer (have?) to spend money on lifts
that cost lots of money, need safety certificates, and are an on-
going maintenance cost? It is because pits are dangerous.

It's also a PITA having to climb in and out of them, if it's your job.

What you do is drive the car over, leaving about a foot of space, then
climb down into the pit using the ladder provided. Once in the pit you
can push the car backwards or forwards as required. Obviously this is
only applicable on level ground. However, I don't think I have ever
seen a pit that was built on a slope.



Pardon me for butting in on a private argument )

1. Businesses use hoists because they are more cost effective, even though
they might be more expensive, not because they are less "dangerous". They
are adjustable for height so different sized mechanics can work comfortably.
The ambient light levels are naturally higher under a hoist. They are always
going to get tools etc and (as has been said) getting in and out is a PITA.
You can move right out to the edge of the car and beyond with a hoist, which
you can't with a pit. Pits are a bugger with a three wheeler (sorry,
couldn't resist that one). Modern business premises are built on concrete
rafts with no basement - pits would add enormously to the expense. Pits are
difficult to keep clean compared with a flat floor. Gas welding in a pit is
a little inadvisable, if only because ou have inadequate access to the gas
cylinders.

2. Domestic garages are not (in the main) suitable for hoists (as in whole
car lifts, not things for lifting engines). Axle stands are fine - if used
properly the car will not "rock off them". A pit would be more convenient
(sometimes) if you do a lot of work under a car, given that you can't have a
hoist but, given the expense of installation, the cost and effort of
providing a secure cover, it must be arguable whether it would be worth
putting one in. I would use one if I had one but I wouldn't put one in
specially.

Can't see there's much to argue about!


--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)

Mary Fisher wrote:

You mean you've got an old Rover and you haven't given any thought to
a pit? This is exactly why I would want one, because I want to get old
cars again, as I used to have in my youth. I bet if you had a pit
right now, you'd be tempted to remove the sleepers and have a
butchers. Rover is begging to be inspected from underneath!

Not the last one I drove ( a 70) which was written off by a chap speeding
through red lights in his mini bus... :-(

There isn't (to my knowledge anyway) sucha thing as a Rover 70. If
you're talking of P4 Rovers then there are 60, 75, 80, 90, 100, 105
and 110. I've had a 60, a couple of 100s and a 110.

--
Chris Green

In article ,
Mary Fisher wrote:
Not the last one I drove ( a 70) which was written off by a chap speeding
through red lights in his mini bus... :-(

A 70? Older ones included 60,75,80,90,100,105,110. But not a 70. ;-)

--
*Why do overlook and oversee mean opposite things? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Bob Mannix wrote:
Pits are a bugger with a three wheeler (sorry,
couldn't resist that one).

They are with a lift too. ;-)

--
*Why is the man who invests all your money called a broker? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Bob Mannix" wrote in message
...

snip
couldn't resist that one). Modern business premises are built on concrete
rafts with no basement - pits would add enormously to the expense.

That is arguable, if the workshop is being built there would be little (or
no) extra cost in building a pit at the 'footings' stage of construction,
unless there are local reasons why a pit would cause problems, such as a
high local water table. Pits are not generally used now days due to the
fact that they are inflexible (you can re-locate a pit as you can a hoist if
the workshop layout needs to change) and that there are the many health and
safety problems with them.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,

We gave away our 'old' car, replacing it with a scooter for local
journeys. We only need the car for its carrying capacity and towing.

That's one reason I keep the old Rover - it's huge inside with the seats
lowered and can carry most things - even a door with the hatch closed. My
similar sized BMW has trouble with a cardboard box...

As I said earlier, the Rover 70 was written off. We gave our second car to a
son, it was a hatchback. Neither it nor the Rover would have carried what we
need to transport these days.

snip

Did you have a decent trolley jack and axle stands? Ramps the car
could be driven up onto?

Yes, but you're still on your back and it's not easy to access the top
of
the engine from the ground when the car's lifted. With a pit you can get
both under and over with ease.

That's my point. Clambering in and out of the average domestic pit is
easily as difficult as getting up and down off the floor. Unless it's much
longer than they usually are.

I've covered that.


That's the other real pain. Providing a strong level flush covering.

What sort of DIYer are you? It's not difficult at all.

I really don't think you've used one in anger as part of a reasonably
active hobby...

I don't do anything in anger - it's not productive :-)

Most
use old chunks of wood which get filthy and put splinters in your
hands
when removing.

We're not talking about 'most' here - are do you include yourself in
that
category?

Well?

I've often wondered about a way of providing some form of decent
cover. But then anything one piece that was strong enough couldn't be
lifted...

It doesn't have to be one piece, just snug fitting. That doesn't mean
cabinet built but it's within the capability of most DIYers I'd have
thought. If it isn't they shouldn't be doing things for themselves.

It needs to be strong enough to support the weight of the car on a jack.

No it doesn't. Why jack a car when you have a pit? And where do you put
jacks under a car?

That means hefty timbers. And usually lots of them. Indeed, such a pain to
put back that most just leave the pit open.

How do you know that most leave a pit open?

You do have a tendency to generalise without evidence.

wrote in message ...
Mary Fisher wrote:


There isn't (to my knowledge anyway) sucha thing as a Rover 70. If
you're talking of P4 Rovers then there are 60, 75, 80, 90, 100, 105
and 110. I've had a 60, a couple of 100s and a 110.

You are right and I am wrong as you so often are* ... it was a 75. It was a
l-o-n-g time ago.

Mary

*I can't resist using that phrase :-)

--
Chris Green

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Bob Mannix wrote:
Pits are a bugger with a three wheeler (sorry,
couldn't resist that one).

They are with a lift too. ;-)

Not at all on arm lifts (where arms like fork lifts poke out and lift the
car. Even on drive on ones, not so much although it's a bit dodgy. They back
them on and rest the front wheel on the bracing strut which runs across the
end and chock the wheels - seen it done although I'm not sure how happy I
would have been had it been mine (or me underneath)!


--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)

"Bob Mannix" wrote in message
...




Pardon me for butting in on a private argument )

1. Businesses use hoists because they are more cost effective, even though
they might be more expensive, not because they are less "dangerous". They
are adjustable for height so different sized mechanics can work
comfortably.
The ambient light levels are naturally higher under a hoist. They are
always
going to get tools etc and (as has been said) getting in and out is a
PITA.
You can move right out to the edge of the car and beyond with a hoist,
which
you can't with a pit. Pits are a bugger with a three wheeler (sorry,
couldn't resist that one). Modern business premises are built on concrete
rafts with no basement - pits would add enormously to the expense. Pits
are
difficult to keep clean compared with a flat floor. Gas welding in a pit
is
a little inadvisable, if only because ou have inadequate access to the gas
cylinders.

2. Domestic garages are not (in the main) suitable for hoists (as in whole
car lifts, not things for lifting engines). Axle stands are fine - if used
properly the car will not "rock off them". A pit would be more convenient
(sometimes) if you do a lot of work under a car, given that you can't have
a
hoist but, given the expense of installation, the cost and effort of
providing a secure cover, it must be arguable whether it would be worth
putting one in. I would use one if I had one but I wouldn't put one in
specially.

Can't see there's much to argue about!

No, it's chalk and cheese. But it's fun and what usenet's about, innit?

So saying, yours is the best post so far.

How DO you deal with three wheelers?

Just remembered that a professional repairer I knew specialised in Morris
Minors and turned them on their sides to work underneath them ... with the
aid of a chain block and several mattresses.

That too was in the past ... sigh

Mary


--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)

"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
. net...

"Bob Mannix" wrote in message
...

snip

So saying, yours is the best post so far.

Why, thank you!


How DO you deal with three wheelers?


See other post of mine


--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)

"Bob Mannix" wrote in message
...

"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
. net...

"Bob Mannix" wrote in message
...

snip

So saying, yours is the best post so far.

Why, thank you!


How DO you deal with three wheelers?


See other post of mine

Oh, that's quite boring though :-( I could imagine three long haired young
men lifting a corner each.

Or turning them on their side, which prompted my memory of the Moggies ...

Mary


--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)

"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
. net...

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,

snip

It needs to be strong enough to support the weight of the car on a jack.

No it doesn't. Why jack a car when you have a pit? And where do you put
jacks under a car?

Err !!!...

To take a wheel or two off, and don't come back asking why one should need
to do so, you either know what is involved in maintaining a vehicle or you
don't.

"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
. net...

snip

Just remembered that a professional repairer I knew specialised in Morris
Minors and turned them on their sides to work underneath them ... with the
aid of a chain block and several mattresses.

That too was in the past ... sigh


Yes, sigh, and very big SIGH :~(

Your 'repairer' was a clueless idiot, I suspect he was responsible for many
a banana shaped Minor...

Mike Mitchell wrote in message
Hey, it's my turn to be frank! You're exaggerating the dangers, hyping
the problems and frightening the horses! I have known and loved pits
all my life and have never come across any situation like you
describe. But axle stands, jacks, half-bricks, lumps of wood, and all
the other weird and wonderful paraphernalia people stick under half a
ton of metal to kill themselves with are orders of magnitude more
dangerous than any pit. Trust me, I know what I'm talking about. You
don't.

MM

Ok, how about you *both* know what you're talking about?!

While I agree that there are dangers to pits, like many things they
have to be used responsibly. certainly the more people you have
around the more likelihood there is for an accident, i.e. in a
commercial setting but I've never had an incident with a pit other
than somebody letting the dog out with the pit open & it falling down.
Now, that *could* have been my young daughter. ....but I don't have
one. If I did have one, I'd have to be more careful of course. As
for pits collapsing, it's a bit like garages collapsing - if they're
built properly then the risk is all but eliminated.

Personally, from a safety point of view, I'd rather work under a car
in my pit than have it up on stands with me lying under it.

In article ,
Mary Fisher wrote:
It needs to be strong enough to support the weight of the car on a
jack.

No it doesn't. Why jack a car when you have a pit? And where do you put
jacks under a car?

Like I say, you've not done much serious stuff.;-)

You generally lift one end of a car with a trolley jack, so it goes in the
middle. Most cars are provided with a pad on the 'chassis' for this.

And if the pit is long enough to access most of the underside, there will
be times when you need to lift the car or parts of it with a jack - with
the pit under it. ;-)

That means hefty timbers. And usually lots of them. Indeed, such a
pain to put back that most just leave the pit open.

How do you know that most leave a pit open?

You do have a tendency to generalise without evidence.

The garage I had with a pit I shared with three other blokes. The one next
door also was used by several. The pits were almost always left open.

Humping old oily chunks of sleepers wasn't too popular a job.

--
*Stable Relationships Are For Horses.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Mary Fisher wrote:
It needs to be strong enough to support the weight of the car on a
jack.

No it doesn't. Why jack a car when you have a pit? And where do you put
jacks under a car?

Like I say, you've not done much serious stuff.;-)

You have no idea what I've done.

You generally lift one end of a car with a trolley jack, so it goes in the
middle. Most cars are provided with a pad on the 'chassis' for this.

And if the pit is long enough to access most of the underside, there will
be times when you need to lift the car or parts of it with a jack - with
the pit under it. ;-)

That means hefty timbers. And usually lots of them. Indeed, such a
pain to put back that most just leave the pit open.

How do you know that most leave a pit open?

You do have a tendency to generalise without evidence.

The garage I had with a pit I shared with three other blokes. The one next
door also was used by several. The pits were almost always left open.

So that was, um, shall we say twenty people?

So that was 'most' in a population of - a few thousand - with pits?

Humping old oily chunks of sleepers wasn't too popular a job.

Sleepers aren't the only fruit.

"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
. net...

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Mary Fisher wrote:
It needs to be strong enough to support the weight of the car on a
jack.

No it doesn't. Why jack a car when you have a pit? And where do you
put
jacks under a car?

Like I say, you've not done much serious stuff.;-)

You have no idea what I've done.

Not a lot if you have never jacked a car up so the wheels can be removed,
that is for sure - IMO you are nothing but fake.

In article ,
Mary Fisher wrote:
No it doesn't. Why jack a car when you have a pit? And where do you
put jacks under a car?

Like I say, you've not done much serious stuff.;-)

You have no idea what I've done.

You asked why you'd jack a car up if you have a pit.

Most common things - apart from routine servicing - would involve removing
the wheels. Brakes. Shock absorbers. Suspension bushes. Steering
components. You need a jack for this - regardless of whether you have a
pit or not. There's really not that much you commonly need to get
underneath a car for these days.

--
*I can see your point, but I still think you're full of ****.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Mary Fisher wrote:
The garage I had with a pit I shared with three other blokes. The one
next door also was used by several. The pits were almost always left
open.

So that was, um, shall we say twenty people?

So that was 'most' in a population of - a few thousand - with pits?

Pits had more of a use - possibly - when cars needed servicing often.
Greasing. Changing gearbox and rear axle oil. These days, most of them
don't - or at least not with the same frequency.

We're discussing whether it's worth building a pit now. I'd say probably
not.

--
*Gargling is a good way to see if your throat leaks.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Mary Fisher wrote:
"Jerry Built" wrote...
Mary Fisher wrote:
[snip tripe ]
You are IMM without the content, or the humour.

You're not very bright if you can't see a difference.

I can see the difference. IMM's postings are at least DIY
related. They have sometimes contained useful stuff. Very
occasionally they contain humour. They are certainly
different from your postings.

What you're
doing posting rubbish like this to uk.d-i-y I don't know,

If you think it's rubbish I don't know why you open my posts.
Killfile me NOW.

I can't. I wish I could, but that would only be treating the
symptom, anyway.


J.B.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Mary Fisher wrote:
No it doesn't. Why jack a car when you have a pit? And where do you
put jacks under a car?

Like I say, you've not done much serious stuff.;-)

You have no idea what I've done.

You asked why you'd jack a car up if you have a pit.

Non sequitur.

Most common things - apart from routine servicing - would involve removing
the wheels. Brakes. Shock absorbers. Suspension bushes. Steering
components. You need a jack for this - regardless of whether you have a
pit or not. There's really not that much you commonly need to get
underneath a car for these days.

er - so why do you need ramps?

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Mary Fisher wrote:
The garage I had with a pit I shared with three other blokes. The one
next door also was used by several. The pits were almost always left
open.

So that was, um, shall we say twenty people?

So that was 'most' in a population of - a few thousand - with pits?

Pits had more of a use - possibly - when cars needed servicing often.
Greasing. Changing gearbox and rear axle oil. These days, most of them
don't - or at least not with the same frequency.

That doesn't address my point about how you know what most people do about
their pits.

We're discussing whether it's worth building a pit now. I'd say probably
not.

Fair enough.



--
*Gargling is a good way to see if your throat leaks.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Jerry Built" wrote in message
...
Mary Fisher wrote:
"Jerry Built" wrote...
Mary Fisher wrote:
[snip tripe ]
You are IMM without the content, or the humour.

You're not very bright if you can't see a difference.

I can see the difference. IMM's postings are at least DIY
related. They have sometimes contained useful stuff. Very
occasionally they contain humour. They are certainly
different from your postings.

So why did you say I was IMM?

I'm not international, I'm not a man, there's nothing mysterious about me.

What you're
doing posting rubbish like this to uk.d-i-y I don't know,

If you think it's rubbish I don't know why you open my posts.
Killfile me NOW.

I can't. I wish I could, but that would only be treating the
symptom, anyway.

You still don't need to open my posts :-)


J.B.

"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
. net...

snip

er - so why do you need ramps?

For the jobs were the wheels don't need to be removed or for inspection
only.

In article ,
Mary Fisher wrote:
Like I say, you've not done much serious stuff.;-)

You have no idea what I've done.

You asked why you'd jack a car up if you have a pit.

Non sequitur.

It's perfectly pertinent. If you spout on about something, it's expected
you should actually have used it and or know what it's likely to be used
for.

Most common things - apart from routine servicing - would involve
removing the wheels. Brakes. Shock absorbers. Suspension bushes.
Steering components. You need a jack for this - regardless of whether
you have a pit or not. There's really not that much you commonly need
to get underneath a car for these days.

er - so why do you need ramps?

You're asking this question while purporting to know all about car repairs
and servicing?

The answer is they don't. If you have a decent jack and axle stands you
can use those instead. I have all of these, but very very rarely use the
ramps. The odd occasion would be when I want to have the whole car off the
ground. Now on that rare occasion, a pit would be useful.

--
*Acupuncture is a jab well done.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 13:23:35 +0100, ":::Jerry::::"
wrote:


"Mike Mitchell" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 16 Aug 2004 23:32:37 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Mike Mitchell wrote:
But axle stands, jacks, half-bricks, lumps of wood, and all
the other weird and wonderful paraphernalia people stick under half a
ton of metal to kill themselves with are orders of magnitude more
dangerous than any pit.

Err, decent axle stands are cheap. Putting them in the same breath as old
bricks or a jack is just plain stupid.

Vehicles can easily rock or slip off axle stands. I wouldn't trust

Not if they are used correctly, you must be one clueless idiot if you can't
use axle stands correctly.

One SAFE, one ALIVE clueless idiot!

MM

On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 13:23:35 +0100, ":::Jerry::::"
wrote:

You're a worthless idiot who's advice on this matter should be confined to
the waist bin - if not the kill file. You utter plank ! :~(

Waist bin, eh! Trying to fatten me up for ritual slaughter, maybe?

By the way, the planks were railway sleepers, like I said. I do find
it peculiar that you should become so apoplectic over such a mundane
issue as a hole in the ground.

MM

On 17 Aug 2004 09:31:07 -0700, (adder) wrote:

Mike Mitchell wrote in message
Hey, it's my turn to be frank! You're exaggerating the dangers, hyping
the problems and frightening the horses! I have known and loved pits
all my life and have never come across any situation like you
describe. But axle stands, jacks, half-bricks, lumps of wood, and all
the other weird and wonderful paraphernalia people stick under half a
ton of metal to kill themselves with are orders of magnitude more
dangerous than any pit. Trust me, I know what I'm talking about. You
don't.

MM

Ok, how about you *both* know what you're talking about?!

While I agree that there are dangers to pits, like many things they
have to be used responsibly. certainly the more people you have
around the more likelihood there is for an accident, i.e. in a
commercial setting but I've never had an incident with a pit other
than somebody letting the dog out with the pit open & it falling down.
Now, that *could* have been my young daughter. ....but I don't have
one. If I did have one, I'd have to be more careful of course. As
for pits collapsing, it's a bit like garages collapsing - if they're
built properly then the risk is all but eliminated.

Personally, from a safety point of view, I'd rather work under a car
in my pit than have it up on stands with me lying under it.

Bravo, adder! A voice of reasonablenss in the face of considerable
venom from Dave and Jerry, who must have been watching too much of
Miss Hardbroom.

MM

"Mike Mitchell" wrote in message
news
On 17 Aug 2004 09:31:07 -0700, (adder) wrote:


Bravo, adder! A voice of reasonablenss in the face of considerable
venom from Dave and Jerry, who must have been watching too much of
Miss Hardbroom.

Who?

Mary

MM

On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 11:25:01 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

The answer is they don't. If you have a decent jack and axle stands you
can use those instead. I have all of these, but very very rarely use the
ramps. The odd occasion would be when I want to have the whole car off the
ground. Now on that rare occasion, a pit would be useful.

Surely the only way to have the whole car off the ground is by means
of a crane?

MM

On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 22:54:22 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Mary Fisher wrote:
The garage I had with a pit I shared with three other blokes. The one
next door also was used by several. The pits were almost always left
open.

So that was, um, shall we say twenty people?

So that was 'most' in a population of - a few thousand - with pits?

Pits had more of a use - possibly - when cars needed servicing often.

Which exactly applies in my case as I already said that I wanted to
acquire an old car again, like I drove in my youth.

MM

"Mike Mitchell" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 22:54:22 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Mary Fisher wrote:
The garage I had with a pit I shared with three other blokes. The one
next door also was used by several. The pits were almost always left
open.

So that was, um, shall we say twenty people?

So that was 'most' in a population of - a few thousand - with pits?

Pits had more of a use - possibly - when cars needed servicing often.

Which exactly applies in my case as I already said that I wanted to
acquire an old car again, like I drove in my youth.

The ones I drove then are all in museums ... :-(

Mary

MM

On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 14:55:26 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


wrote in message ...
Mary Fisher wrote:


There isn't (to my knowledge anyway) sucha thing as a Rover 70. If
you're talking of P4 Rovers then there are 60, 75, 80, 90, 100, 105
and 110. I've had a 60, a couple of 100s and a 110.

You are right and I am wrong as you so often are* ... it was a 75. It was a
l-o-n-g time ago.

Mary

*I can't resist using that phrase :-)

How about: "Correct me if I'm not mistaken..." Another good-un!

MM

"Mike Mitchell" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 11:25:01 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

The answer is they don't. If you have a decent jack and axle stands you
can use those instead. I have all of these, but very very rarely use the
ramps. The odd occasion would be when I want to have the whole car off
the
ground. Now on that rare occasion, a pit would be useful.

Surely the only way to have the whole car off the ground is by means
of a crane?


No, sky hook, otherwise it's still on the ground via the crane....

On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 14:12:04 +0100, ":::Jerry::::"
wrote:


"Mike Mitchell" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 10:10:00 +0100, ":::Jerry::::"
wrote:


"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
.net...

"Jerry Built" wrote in message
...
:::Jerry:::: wrote:
Pit are dangerous, they can easily become filled with poisonous
or inflammable gases / fumes without warning and thus without a
chance to use a fan or what ever to try and disperse the gases /
fumes.

How many repair businesses do you see with an inspection pit? Not
many (any?). Why do they prefer (have?) to spend money on lifts
that cost lots of money, need safety certificates, and are an on-
going maintenance cost? It is because pits are dangerous.

Not necessarily. It's because they are forced to. Not all legislation
is
for
sensible reasons.

That is the point, there is NO legislation forcing workshops not to use
pits, they do so because it is safer to use hoists etc. Many workshops
have
spent money removing pits due to the safety concerns that surround their
use
and even presents in the workshop.


DIYers are unlikely to be able to afford the sophisticated equipment -
nor
the space demanded - which the pros have.


But they can afford to use ramps and axle stands, which (in the case of
axle
stands) they need anyway to work safely in a 'wheels free' situation.

Putting it bluntly, pits in domestic (DIY) garages are not much more that
an
ego trip - totally un-needed...

Would you prefer working underneath a car from a pit or crawling under
it if it was propped up on axle stands? I know which method I would
prefer! Also, how you can possibly come to the conclusion that wanting
a pit is part of an ego trip? That sounds like a ridiculous argument
to me.


Neither would I use axle stand or a pit, I would use a nice wheels free
hoist. But if I didn't have access to a hoist I would choose stands anytime,
not only are the wheels free to be removed the vehicles height can be
adjusted to suit the job in hand - reach is often a factor when using pits,
you're either cramped of have to over reach.

The more you spout on about what you say are the advantages of pit and the
disadvantages of hoists or stands the more I'm convinced that you have not
used either of the choices and probably never done work (more than an oil
change) on any vehicle.

Whoa, you're conflating hoists and stands, when the two are completely
different! Of course I would use a hoist, but how do I get a hoist
into a domestic garage? And even if I could, i.e. if I had a double
garage maybe, though it would have to be double height as well, how
could I afford one? Hoists cost a lot of money, you know. A pit costs
practically nothing, especially if you live near a railway line.

MM

On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 14:12:04 +0100, ":::Jerry::::"
wrote:

The more you spout on about what you say are the advantages of pit and the
disadvantages of hoists or stands the more I'm convinced that you have not
used either of the choices and probably never done work (more than an oil
change) on any vehicle.

You're right, of course. By the way, what does 'vehicle' mean?

MM

On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 14:23:10 +0100, "Bob Mannix"
wrote:

Can't see there's much to argue about!

Wanna bet! Just see Dave and Jerry go now! Whoosh, they're off!

MM

On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 15:23:35 +0100, ":::Jerry::::"
wrote:


"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
.net...

snip

Just remembered that a professional repairer I knew specialised in Morris
Minors and turned them on their sides to work underneath them ... with the
aid of a chain block and several mattresses.

That too was in the past ... sigh


Yes, sigh, and very big SIGH :~(

Your 'repairer' was a clueless idiot, I suspect he was responsible for many
a banana shaped Minor...

Oh, dearie me. There do seem to be rather a lot of clueless idiots in
your world!

MM

On 17 Aug 2004 12:59:55 -0000, Jerry Built
wrote:

Mike Mitchell wrote:
Dave Plowman wrote:
It's also a PITA having to climb in and out of [inspection
pits] if it's your job.

What you do is drive the car over, leaving about a foot of
space, then climb down into the pit using the ladder provided.

Now that's even worse - a ladder, indeed!

As long as someone stands on the bottom rung...

MM

"Mike Mitchell" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 14:55:26 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


wrote in message ...
Mary Fisher wrote:


There isn't (to my knowledge anyway) sucha thing as a Rover 70. If
you're talking of P4 Rovers then there are 60, 75, 80, 90, 100, 105
and 110. I've had a 60, a couple of 100s and a 110.

You are right and I am wrong as you so often are* ... it was a 75. It was
a
l-o-n-g time ago.

Mary

*I can't resist using that phrase :-)

How about: "Correct me if I'm not mistaken..." Another good-un!

er - I'm trying to work that out!

It's very hot ...

Mary

MM