Since my wife has been consigned to a wheelchair it means I notice lifts
more.
This weekend I encountered one (in a newish building of a company very
committed to access) - the one floor lift has never worked so they have
boarded up the doors (according to a member of staff)

A local superstore - lift out of action 3 times last week.

Old Person's Residential Complex - Lift out of action as service contract
has gone to a firm that prefers a different brand and it is waiting for
parts but may fit a new controller.

Daughter's place of work - blocking a door is likely to put it out of
action for a week


What is it with lifts? - they aren't rocket science.

What are the common causes - and are there generic issues that better
disign could cure?

On 01/10/2019 16:40, John wrote:
What is it with lifts? - they aren't rocket science.

What are the common causes - and are there generic issues that better
disign could cure?

I agree, that they do seem to be extraordinarily unreliable. I use Luton Airport Parkway station several times a week which has 3 lifts to access the three sets of platforms. I cannot remember a time when all three have been working at the same time. The station is used by huge numbers of airport customers with luggage so one often sees them struggling up the rather long staircases, which is distressing to watch. Disabled passengers - well I guess they are told to use some other station - I have no idea. I have never seen the staff carrying a wheelchair up the stairs, it's probably against H&S rules.

Last month I was waiting for a train on platforms 2/3 where the lift is very often out of action and observed with interest the lift maintenance crew in action. They had the door to the control gear open and were tinkering inside. While I waited they appeared to think they had finished and did a couple of test rides up and down, and then packed up, removed the "out of service" signs and went off. I was still waiting for a train (Thameslink trains are almost invariably late) and saw two customers use it, then the lift failed again, fortunately with nobody stuck inside. It was still out of service when I came back through the station a few hours later and stayed that way for the next few days.

The two lift maintenance technicians were both very young, indeed they looked barely out of school. Maybe that's the norm nowadays - if experienced technicians exist they never visit actual customer sites. If one bought a car that failed as often as these lifts do, one would want one's money back.


--
Clive Page

The overloading and hence the switches pack up was one problem we used to
have, and others seem to revolve around inner door opening outer door not,
and one of my bug bears on modern lifts, touch screen control panels the
blind cannot use and high control panels the wheelchair person cannot use.
Stupid over sized Braille on buttons is downright stupid.
and ignorant.
Brian

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This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
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Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"John" wrote in message
2.236...
Since my wife has been consigned to a wheelchair it means I notice lifts
more.
This weekend I encountered one (in a newish building of a company very
committed to access) - the one floor lift has never worked so they have
boarded up the doors (according to a member of staff)

A local superstore - lift out of action 3 times last week.

Old Person's Residential Complex - Lift out of action as service contract
has gone to a firm that prefers a different brand and it is waiting for
parts but may fit a new controller.

Daughter's place of work - blocking a door is likely to put it out of
action for a week


What is it with lifts? - they aren't rocket science.

What are the common causes - and are there generic issues that better
disign could cure?

Yes I've often wondered why big companies do not simply take these folks to
the cleaners over underperformance.
I was talking to a friend with ms, she has to use a wheelchair when it
flares up, On one occasion the new lifts at Surbiton all failed meaning she
could not get off the platform as the assistants had used a ramp to
disembark her but seemingly had not realised the lifts were out, so they put
her on another train to another station where the company paid for a taxi
all the way back to her house.
It must cost them a fortune the number of times this stupid situation
occurs.
Brian

--
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This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Clive Page" wrote in message
...
On 01/10/2019 16:40, John wrote:
What is it with lifts? - they aren't rocket science.

What are the common causes - and are there generic issues that better
disign could cure?

I agree, that they do seem to be extraordinarily unreliable. I use Luton
Airport Parkway station several times a week which has 3 lifts to access
the three sets of platforms. I cannot remember a time when all three have
been working at the same time. The station is used by huge numbers of
airport customers with luggage so one often sees them struggling up the
rather long staircases, which is distressing to watch. Disabled
passengers - well I guess they are told to use some other station - I have
no idea. I have never seen the staff carrying a wheelchair up the stairs,
it's probably against H&S rules.

Last month I was waiting for a train on platforms 2/3 where the lift is
very often out of action and observed with interest the lift maintenance
crew in action. They had the door to the control gear open and were
tinkering inside. While I waited they appeared to think they had finished
and did a couple of test rides up and down, and then packed up, removed
the "out of service" signs and went off. I was still waiting for a train
(Thameslink trains are almost invariably late) and saw two customers use
it, then the lift failed again, fortunately with nobody stuck inside. It
was still out of service when I came back through the station a few hours
later and stayed that way for the next few days.

The two lift maintenance technicians were both very young, indeed they
looked barely out of school. Maybe that's the norm nowadays - if
experienced technicians exist they never visit actual customer sites. If
one bought a car that failed as often as these lifts do, one would want
one's money back.


--
Clive Page

On Tuesday, 1 October 2019 16:40:20 UTC+1, John wrote:
Since my wife has been consigned to a wheelchair it means I notice lifts
more.
This weekend I encountered one (in a newish building of a company very
committed to access) - the one floor lift has never worked so they have
boarded up the doors (according to a member of staff)

A local superstore - lift out of action 3 times last week.

Old Person's Residential Complex - Lift out of action as service contract
has gone to a firm that prefers a different brand and it is waiting for
parts but may fit a new controller.

Daughter's place of work - blocking a door is likely to put it out of
action for a week


What is it with lifts? - they aren't rocket science.

What are the common causes - and are there generic issues that better
disign could cure?

There are lifts and lifts.
Often the El Cheapo ones unsuitable for heavy use ge tput in unsuitable locations.
The best lift is Otis. You rarely see them except in hospitals.

On 01/10/2019 16:52, Clive Page wrote:
On 01/10/2019 16:40, John wrote:
What is it with lifts? - they aren't rocket science.

What are the common causes - and are there generic issues that better
disign could cure?

I agree, that they do seem to be extraordinarily unreliable.

I don't think that they are that unreliable, just that when they fail,
they are patched up and fail again quickly, so you see multiple
failures; or they are taken out of service until a replacement part
arrives ... and they don't seem to stock any, so it can be many weeks or
even months before it is fixed.

SteveW

On Tuesday, 1 October 2019 18:32:19 UTC+1, harry wrote:
On Tuesday, 1 October 2019 16:40:20 UTC+1, John wrote:
Since my wife has been consigned to a wheelchair it means I notice lifts
more.
This weekend I encountered one (in a newish building of a company very
committed to access) - the one floor lift has never worked so they have
boarded up the doors (according to a member of staff)

A local superstore - lift out of action 3 times last week.

Old Person's Residential Complex - Lift out of action as service contract
has gone to a firm that prefers a different brand and it is waiting for
parts but may fit a new controller.

Daughter's place of work - blocking a door is likely to put it out of
action for a week


What is it with lifts? - they aren't rocket science.

What are the common causes - and are there generic issues that better
disign could cure?

There are lifts and lifts.
Often the El Cheapo ones unsuitable for heavy use ge tput in unsuitable locations.
The best lift is Otis. You rarely see them except in hospitals.

Just what is better about an Otis lift than, say, KONE?

On Tue, 01 Oct 2019 13:22:21 -0700, polygonum_on_google wrote:

On Tuesday, 1 October 2019 18:32:19 UTC+1, harry wrote:

The best lift is Otis. You rarely see them except in hospitals.

Just what is better about an Otis lift than, say, KONE?

Indeed. I have come across numerous broken Otis lifts, going back over 50
years.

One or two have even had a notoce:

"This Otis regrets it's unable to lift today!

--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On Tuesday, 1 October 2019 21:45:04 UTC+1, Bob Eager wrote:
On Tue, 01 Oct 2019 13:22:21 -0700, polygonum_on_google wrote:

On Tuesday, 1 October 2019 18:32:19 UTC+1, harry wrote:

The best lift is Otis. You rarely see them except in hospitals.

Just what is better about an Otis lift than, say, KONE?

Indeed. I have come across numerous broken Otis lifts, going back over 50
years.

One or two have even had a notoce:

"This Otis regrets it's unable to lift today!

:-)

And Otis own Evans (ExpressEvans).

On 01/10/2019 16:40, John wrote:
Since my wife has been consigned to a wheelchair it means I notice lifts
more.
This weekend I encountered one (in a newish building of a company very
committed to access) - the one floor lift has never worked so they have
boarded up the doors (according to a member of staff)

A local superstore - lift out of action 3 times last week.

Old Person's Residential Complex - Lift out of action as service contract
has gone to a firm that prefers a different brand and it is waiting for
parts but may fit a new controller.

Daughter's place of work - blocking a door is likely to put it out of
action for a week


What is it with lifts? - they aren't rocket science.

What are the common causes - and are there generic issues that better
disign could cure?


It is about half a century since I was involved with inspecting any
lift. Back then, the problem was usually that they were rather too
reliable. By the time they eventually went wrong, it was difficult to
get spare parts. These days, I suspect that software problems are more
likely.

--
Colin Bignell

On Wednesday, 2 October 2019 09:28:22 UTC+1, nightjar wrote:
On 01/10/2019 16:40, John wrote:
Since my wife has been consigned to a wheelchair it means I notice lifts
more.
This weekend I encountered one (in a newish building of a company very
committed to access) - the one floor lift has never worked so they have
boarded up the doors (according to a member of staff)

A local superstore - lift out of action 3 times last week.

Old Person's Residential Complex - Lift out of action as service contract
has gone to a firm that prefers a different brand and it is waiting for
parts but may fit a new controller.

Daughter's place of work - blocking a door is likely to put it out of
action for a week


What is it with lifts? - they aren't rocket science.

What are the common causes - and are there generic issues that better
disign could cure?


It is about half a century since I was involved with inspecting any
lift. Back then, the problem was usually that they were rather too
reliable. By the time they eventually went wrong, it was difficult to
get spare parts. These days, I suspect that software problems are more
likely.

I've been wondering what happens regarding the new tower blocks that people are buying flats in for 1/2 million and it;s estimated that after ~15 years the lifts will need replacing and will cost a fortune to replace everything due to H&S regarding lifts, who's going to pay.
The latest ones near me seemed cheap ranging from £120K but on reading the small print it;s for 25% owenership! so yuo have a mortgage for £100K and then have to pay some form of rent, and then when the lift breaks down and needs replacing what then ?


--
Colin Bignell

On Wed, 2 Oct 2019 05:39:53 -0700 (PDT), whisky-dave wrote:

The latest ones near me seemed cheap ranging from £120K but on reading
the small print it;s for 25% owenership! so yuo have a mortgage for
£100K and then have to pay some form of rent, and then when the lift
breaks down and needs replacing what then ?

75% landlords problem.

Stairs.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Wednesday, 2 October 2019 16:32:54 UTC+1, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Wed, 2 Oct 2019 05:39:53 -0700 (PDT), whisky-dave wrote:

The latest ones near me seemed cheap ranging from £120K but on reading
the small print it;s for 25% owenership! so yuo have a mortgage for
£100K and then have to pay some form of rent, and then when the lift
breaks down and needs replacing what then ?

75% landlords problem.

and they will say can't afford it. A simialr thing happened with the houses for sale for £1, a cheap buy if yuo have the £30K+ to repair them.


Stairs.

I deal for a thos ethat have lived their 25 years or so.



--
Cheers
Dave.

On 01/10/2019 16:40, John wrote:
Since my wife has been consigned to a wheelchair it means I notice lifts
more.
This weekend I encountered one (in a newish building of a company very
committed to access) - the one floor lift has never worked so they have
boarded up the doors (according to a member of staff)

A local superstore - lift out of action 3 times last week.

Old Person's Residential Complex - Lift out of action as service contract
has gone to a firm that prefers a different brand and it is waiting for
parts but may fit a new controller.

Daughter's place of work - blocking a door is likely to put it out of
action for a week


What is it with lifts? - they aren't rocket science.

What are the common causes - and are there generic issues that better
disign could cure?


Too many morbidly obese people out and about, crashing in and out
on their 'mobility scooters', damaging the doors and overloading
them ?.

On 01/10/2019 17:23, Jethro_uk wrote:
You can bet your life the lifts in these £5,000/month flats are never out
of order.

And that is almost certainly because these residents respect
the building and its facilities, unlike joe public on his
mobility scooter who couldn't give a ****, while muttering
'they should do something about it'.

On Tuesday, 1 October 2019 21:22:24 UTC+1, polygonum_on_google wrote:
On Tuesday, 1 October 2019 18:32:19 UTC+1, harry wrote:
On Tuesday, 1 October 2019 16:40:20 UTC+1, John wrote:
Since my wife has been consigned to a wheelchair it means I notice lifts
more.
This weekend I encountered one (in a newish building of a company very
committed to access) - the one floor lift has never worked so they have
boarded up the doors (according to a member of staff)

A local superstore - lift out of action 3 times last week.

Old Person's Residential Complex - Lift out of action as service contract
has gone to a firm that prefers a different brand and it is waiting for
parts but may fit a new controller.

Daughter's place of work - blocking a door is likely to put it out of
action for a week


What is it with lifts? - they aren't rocket science.

What are the common causes - and are there generic issues that better
disign could cure?

There are lifts and lifts.
Often the El Cheapo ones unsuitable for heavy use ge tput in unsuitable locations.
The best lift is Otis. You rarely see them except in hospitals.

Just what is better about an Otis lift than, say, KONE?

Otis is pretty much over engineered.
And expensive but worth it in the long run.

On Wednesday, 2 October 2019 17:00:26 UTC+1, whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 2 October 2019 16:32:54 UTC+1, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Wed, 2 Oct 2019 05:39:53 -0700 (PDT), whisky-dave wrote:

The latest ones near me seemed cheap ranging from £120K but on reading
the small print it;s for 25% owenership! so yuo have a mortgage for
£100K and then have to pay some form of rent, and then when the lift
breaks down and needs replacing what then ?

75% landlords problem.

and they will say can't afford it. A simialr thing happened with the houses for sale for £1, a cheap buy if yuo have the £30K+ to repair them.

If it's the same scheme I looked at, part of it was you were required to take their £30k loan too.


NT

"Andrew" wrote in message
...
On 01/10/2019 17:23, Jethro_uk wrote:
You can bet your life the lifts in these £5,000/month flats are never out
of order.

And that is almost certainly because these residents respect
the building and its facilities, unlike joe public on his
mobility scooter who couldn't give a ****, while muttering
'they should do something about it'.

I live in a block where we respect and *need* the lift

we also have an on-site warden who can/does call out the repair company
immediately when it goes wrong

doesn't stop it being unavailable for a week at a time when they need new
"parts"

tim

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
idual.net...
On Wed, 2 Oct 2019 05:39:53 -0700 (PDT), whisky-dave wrote:

The latest ones near me seemed cheap ranging from £120K but on reading
the small print it;s for 25% owenership! so yuo have a mortgage for
£100K and then have to pay some form of rent, and then when the lift
breaks down and needs replacing what then ?

75% landlords problem.

no it's not

in shared ownership you are still responsible for your share of 100% of the
maintenance costs

tim

"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 2 October 2019 09:28:22 UTC+1, nightjar wrote:
On 01/10/2019 16:40, John wrote:
Since my wife has been consigned to a wheelchair it means I notice
lifts
more.
This weekend I encountered one (in a newish building of a company very
committed to access) - the one floor lift has never worked so they have
boarded up the doors (according to a member of staff)

A local superstore - lift out of action 3 times last week.

Old Person's Residential Complex - Lift out of action as service
contract
has gone to a firm that prefers a different brand and it is waiting for
parts but may fit a new controller.

Daughter's place of work - blocking a door is likely to put it out of
action for a week


What is it with lifts? - they aren't rocket science.

What are the common causes - and are there generic issues that better
disign could cure?


It is about half a century since I was involved with inspecting any
lift. Back then, the problem was usually that they were rather too
reliable. By the time they eventually went wrong, it was difficult to
get spare parts. These days, I suspect that software problems are more
likely.

I've been wondering what happens regarding the new tower blocks that
people are buying flats in for 1/2 million and it;s estimated that after
~15 years the lifts will need replacing and will cost a fortune to replace
everything due to H&S regarding lifts, who's going to pay.
The latest ones near me seemed cheap ranging from £120K but on reading
the small print it;s for 25% owenership! so yuo have a mortgage for £100K
and then have to pay some form of rent, and then when the lift breaks down
and needs replacing what then ?

we have a sinking! fund for such items

Management think that it needs to be solvent to the tune of 250K to pay for
such items

tim






--
Colin Bignell

On 03/10/2019 21:19, tim... wrote:


"Andrew" wrote in message
...
On 01/10/2019 17:23, Jethro_uk wrote:
You can bet your life the lifts in these £5,000/month flats are never
out
of order.

And that is almost certainly because these residents respect
the building and its facilities, unlike joe public on his
mobility scooter who couldn't give a ****, while muttering
'they should do something about it'.

I live in a block where we respect and *need* the lift

we also have an on-site warden who can/does call out the repair company
immediately when it goes wrong

doesn't stop it being unavailable for a week at a time when they need
new "parts"

tim


Usually caused by the false economy of having a 3rd party service
contract, "because its cheaper than having a contract with insert lift
manufacturer here".

The block where I had a flat, deliberately chose to go with Otis on the
basis that the enhanced spares availability was worth the the extra expense.

On Saturday, 5 October 2019 09:40:09 UTC+1, John Kenyon wrote:
On 03/10/2019 21:19, tim... wrote:


"Andrew" wrote in message
...
On 01/10/2019 17:23, Jethro_uk wrote:
You can bet your life the lifts in these £5,000/month flats are never
out
of order.

And that is almost certainly because these residents respect
the building and its facilities, unlike joe public on his
mobility scooter who couldn't give a ****, while muttering
'they should do something about it'.

I live in a block where we respect and *need* the lift

we also have an on-site warden who can/does call out the repair company
immediately when it goes wrong

doesn't stop it being unavailable for a week at a time when they need
new "parts"

tim


Usually caused by the false economy of having a 3rd party service
contract, "because its cheaper than having a contract with insert lift
manufacturer here".

The block where I had a flat, deliberately chose to go with Otis on the
basis that the enhanced spares availability was worth the the extra expense.

Any idea of whether or not it was worth it ?