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Lifts - not Rocket Science
Since my wife has been consigned to a wheelchair it means I notice lifts
more. This weekend I encountered one (in a newish building of a company very committed to access) - the one floor lift has never worked so they have boarded up the doors (according to a member of staff) A local superstore - lift out of action 3 times last week. Old Person's Residential Complex - Lift out of action as service contract has gone to a firm that prefers a different brand and it is waiting for parts but may fit a new controller. Daughter's place of work - blocking a door is likely to put it out of action for a week What is it with lifts? - they aren't rocket science. What are the common causes - and are there generic issues that better disign could cure? |
Lifts - not Rocket Science
On 01/10/2019 16:40, John wrote:
What is it with lifts? - they aren't rocket science. What are the common causes - and are there generic issues that better disign could cure? I agree, that they do seem to be extraordinarily unreliable. I use Luton Airport Parkway station several times a week which has 3 lifts to access the three sets of platforms. I cannot remember a time when all three have been working at the same time. The station is used by huge numbers of airport customers with luggage so one often sees them struggling up the rather long staircases, which is distressing to watch. Disabled passengers - well I guess they are told to use some other station - I have no idea. I have never seen the staff carrying a wheelchair up the stairs, it's probably against H&S rules. Last month I was waiting for a train on platforms 2/3 where the lift is very often out of action and observed with interest the lift maintenance crew in action. They had the door to the control gear open and were tinkering inside. While I waited they appeared to think they had finished and did a couple of test rides up and down, and then packed up, removed the "out of service" signs and went off. I was still waiting for a train (Thameslink trains are almost invariably late) and saw two customers use it, then the lift failed again, fortunately with nobody stuck inside. It was still out of service when I came back through the station a few hours later and stayed that way for the next few days. The two lift maintenance technicians were both very young, indeed they looked barely out of school. Maybe that's the norm nowadays - if experienced technicians exist they never visit actual customer sites. If one bought a car that failed as often as these lifts do, one would want one's money back. -- Clive Page |
Lifts - not Rocket Science
Yes I've often wondered why big companies do not simply take these folks to
the cleaners over underperformance. I was talking to a friend with ms, she has to use a wheelchair when it flares up, On one occasion the new lifts at Surbiton all failed meaning she could not get off the platform as the assistants had used a ramp to disembark her but seemingly had not realised the lifts were out, so they put her on another train to another station where the company paid for a taxi all the way back to her house. It must cost them a fortune the number of times this stupid situation occurs. Brian -- ----- -- This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from... The Sofa of Brian Gaff... Blind user, so no pictures please Note this Signature is meaningless.! "Clive Page" wrote in message ... On 01/10/2019 16:40, John wrote: What is it with lifts? - they aren't rocket science. What are the common causes - and are there generic issues that better disign could cure? I agree, that they do seem to be extraordinarily unreliable. I use Luton Airport Parkway station several times a week which has 3 lifts to access the three sets of platforms. I cannot remember a time when all three have been working at the same time. The station is used by huge numbers of airport customers with luggage so one often sees them struggling up the rather long staircases, which is distressing to watch. Disabled passengers - well I guess they are told to use some other station - I have no idea. I have never seen the staff carrying a wheelchair up the stairs, it's probably against H&S rules. Last month I was waiting for a train on platforms 2/3 where the lift is very often out of action and observed with interest the lift maintenance crew in action. They had the door to the control gear open and were tinkering inside. While I waited they appeared to think they had finished and did a couple of test rides up and down, and then packed up, removed the "out of service" signs and went off. I was still waiting for a train (Thameslink trains are almost invariably late) and saw two customers use it, then the lift failed again, fortunately with nobody stuck inside. It was still out of service when I came back through the station a few hours later and stayed that way for the next few days. The two lift maintenance technicians were both very young, indeed they looked barely out of school. Maybe that's the norm nowadays - if experienced technicians exist they never visit actual customer sites. If one bought a car that failed as often as these lifts do, one would want one's money back. -- Clive Page |
Lifts - not Rocket Science
On Tuesday, 1 October 2019 16:40:20 UTC+1, John wrote:
Since my wife has been consigned to a wheelchair it means I notice lifts more. This weekend I encountered one (in a newish building of a company very committed to access) - the one floor lift has never worked so they have boarded up the doors (according to a member of staff) A local superstore - lift out of action 3 times last week. Old Person's Residential Complex - Lift out of action as service contract has gone to a firm that prefers a different brand and it is waiting for parts but may fit a new controller. Daughter's place of work - blocking a door is likely to put it out of action for a week What is it with lifts? - they aren't rocket science. What are the common causes - and are there generic issues that better disign could cure? There are lifts and lifts. Often the El Cheapo ones unsuitable for heavy use ge tput in unsuitable locations. The best lift is Otis. You rarely see them except in hospitals. |
Lifts - not Rocket Science
On 01/10/2019 16:52, Clive Page wrote:
On 01/10/2019 16:40, John wrote: What is it with lifts? - they aren't rocket science. What are the common causes - and are there generic issues that better disign could cure? I agree, that they do seem to be extraordinarily unreliable. I don't think that they are that unreliable, just that when they fail, they are patched up and fail again quickly, so you see multiple failures; or they are taken out of service until a replacement part arrives ... and they don't seem to stock any, so it can be many weeks or even months before it is fixed. SteveW |
Lifts - not Rocket Science
On Tuesday, 1 October 2019 18:32:19 UTC+1, harry wrote:
On Tuesday, 1 October 2019 16:40:20 UTC+1, John wrote: Since my wife has been consigned to a wheelchair it means I notice lifts more. This weekend I encountered one (in a newish building of a company very committed to access) - the one floor lift has never worked so they have boarded up the doors (according to a member of staff) A local superstore - lift out of action 3 times last week. Old Person's Residential Complex - Lift out of action as service contract has gone to a firm that prefers a different brand and it is waiting for parts but may fit a new controller. Daughter's place of work - blocking a door is likely to put it out of action for a week What is it with lifts? - they aren't rocket science. What are the common causes - and are there generic issues that better disign could cure? There are lifts and lifts. Often the El Cheapo ones unsuitable for heavy use ge tput in unsuitable locations. The best lift is Otis. You rarely see them except in hospitals. Just what is better about an Otis lift than, say, KONE? |
Lifts - not Rocket Science
On Tue, 01 Oct 2019 13:22:21 -0700, polygonum_on_google wrote:
On Tuesday, 1 October 2019 18:32:19 UTC+1, harry wrote: The best lift is Otis. You rarely see them except in hospitals. Just what is better about an Otis lift than, say, KONE? Indeed. I have come across numerous broken Otis lifts, going back over 50 years. One or two have even had a notoce: "This Otis regrets it's unable to lift today! -- My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message. Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org *lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor |
Lifts - not Rocket Science
On Tuesday, 1 October 2019 21:45:04 UTC+1, Bob Eager wrote:
On Tue, 01 Oct 2019 13:22:21 -0700, polygonum_on_google wrote: On Tuesday, 1 October 2019 18:32:19 UTC+1, harry wrote: The best lift is Otis. You rarely see them except in hospitals. Just what is better about an Otis lift than, say, KONE? Indeed. I have come across numerous broken Otis lifts, going back over 50 years. One or two have even had a notoce: "This Otis regrets it's unable to lift today! :-) And Otis own Evans (ExpressEvans). |
Lifts - not Rocket Science
On 01/10/2019 16:40, John wrote:
Since my wife has been consigned to a wheelchair it means I notice lifts more. This weekend I encountered one (in a newish building of a company very committed to access) - the one floor lift has never worked so they have boarded up the doors (according to a member of staff) A local superstore - lift out of action 3 times last week. Old Person's Residential Complex - Lift out of action as service contract has gone to a firm that prefers a different brand and it is waiting for parts but may fit a new controller. Daughter's place of work - blocking a door is likely to put it out of action for a week What is it with lifts? - they aren't rocket science. What are the common causes - and are there generic issues that better disign could cure? It is about half a century since I was involved with inspecting any lift. Back then, the problem was usually that they were rather too reliable. By the time they eventually went wrong, it was difficult to get spare parts. These days, I suspect that software problems are more likely. -- Colin Bignell |
Lifts - not Rocket Science
On Wednesday, 2 October 2019 09:28:22 UTC+1, nightjar wrote:
On 01/10/2019 16:40, John wrote: Since my wife has been consigned to a wheelchair it means I notice lifts more. This weekend I encountered one (in a newish building of a company very committed to access) - the one floor lift has never worked so they have boarded up the doors (according to a member of staff) A local superstore - lift out of action 3 times last week. Old Person's Residential Complex - Lift out of action as service contract has gone to a firm that prefers a different brand and it is waiting for parts but may fit a new controller. Daughter's place of work - blocking a door is likely to put it out of action for a week What is it with lifts? - they aren't rocket science. What are the common causes - and are there generic issues that better disign could cure? It is about half a century since I was involved with inspecting any lift. Back then, the problem was usually that they were rather too reliable. By the time they eventually went wrong, it was difficult to get spare parts. These days, I suspect that software problems are more likely. I've been wondering what happens regarding the new tower blocks that people are buying flats in for 1/2 million and it;s estimated that after ~15 years the lifts will need replacing and will cost a fortune to replace everything due to H&S regarding lifts, who's going to pay. The latest ones near me seemed cheap ranging from £120K but on reading the small print it;s for 25% owenership! so yuo have a mortgage for £100K and then have to pay some form of rent, and then when the lift breaks down and needs replacing what then ? -- Colin Bignell |
Lifts - not Rocket Science
On Wed, 2 Oct 2019 05:39:53 -0700 (PDT), whisky-dave wrote:
The latest ones near me seemed cheap ranging from £120K but on reading the small print it;s for 25% owenership! so yuo have a mortgage for £100K and then have to pay some form of rent, and then when the lift breaks down and needs replacing what then ? 75% landlords problem. Stairs. -- Cheers Dave. |
Lifts - not Rocket Science
On Wednesday, 2 October 2019 16:32:54 UTC+1, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Wed, 2 Oct 2019 05:39:53 -0700 (PDT), whisky-dave wrote: The latest ones near me seemed cheap ranging from £120K but on reading the small print it;s for 25% owenership! so yuo have a mortgage for £100K and then have to pay some form of rent, and then when the lift breaks down and needs replacing what then ? 75% landlords problem. and they will say can't afford it. A simialr thing happened with the houses for sale for £1, a cheap buy if yuo have the £30K+ to repair them. Stairs. I deal for a thos ethat have lived their 25 years or so. -- Cheers Dave. |
Lifts - not Rocket Science
On 01/10/2019 16:40, John wrote:
Since my wife has been consigned to a wheelchair it means I notice lifts more. This weekend I encountered one (in a newish building of a company very committed to access) - the one floor lift has never worked so they have boarded up the doors (according to a member of staff) A local superstore - lift out of action 3 times last week. Old Person's Residential Complex - Lift out of action as service contract has gone to a firm that prefers a different brand and it is waiting for parts but may fit a new controller. Daughter's place of work - blocking a door is likely to put it out of action for a week What is it with lifts? - they aren't rocket science. What are the common causes - and are there generic issues that better disign could cure? Too many morbidly obese people out and about, crashing in and out on their 'mobility scooters', damaging the doors and overloading them ?. |
Lifts - not Rocket Science
On 01/10/2019 17:23, Jethro_uk wrote:
You can bet your life the lifts in these £5,000/month flats are never out of order. And that is almost certainly because these residents respect the building and its facilities, unlike joe public on his mobility scooter who couldn't give a ****, while muttering 'they should do something about it'. |
Lifts - not Rocket Science
On Tuesday, 1 October 2019 21:22:24 UTC+1, polygonum_on_google wrote:
On Tuesday, 1 October 2019 18:32:19 UTC+1, harry wrote: On Tuesday, 1 October 2019 16:40:20 UTC+1, John wrote: Since my wife has been consigned to a wheelchair it means I notice lifts more. This weekend I encountered one (in a newish building of a company very committed to access) - the one floor lift has never worked so they have boarded up the doors (according to a member of staff) A local superstore - lift out of action 3 times last week. Old Person's Residential Complex - Lift out of action as service contract has gone to a firm that prefers a different brand and it is waiting for parts but may fit a new controller. Daughter's place of work - blocking a door is likely to put it out of action for a week What is it with lifts? - they aren't rocket science. What are the common causes - and are there generic issues that better disign could cure? There are lifts and lifts. Often the El Cheapo ones unsuitable for heavy use ge tput in unsuitable locations. The best lift is Otis. You rarely see them except in hospitals. Just what is better about an Otis lift than, say, KONE? Otis is pretty much over engineered. And expensive but worth it in the long run. |
Lifts - not Rocket Science
On Wednesday, 2 October 2019 17:00:26 UTC+1, whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 2 October 2019 16:32:54 UTC+1, Dave Liquorice wrote: On Wed, 2 Oct 2019 05:39:53 -0700 (PDT), whisky-dave wrote: The latest ones near me seemed cheap ranging from £120K but on reading the small print it;s for 25% owenership! so yuo have a mortgage for £100K and then have to pay some form of rent, and then when the lift breaks down and needs replacing what then ? 75% landlords problem. and they will say can't afford it. A simialr thing happened with the houses for sale for £1, a cheap buy if yuo have the £30K+ to repair them. If it's the same scheme I looked at, part of it was you were required to take their £30k loan too. NT |
Lifts - not Rocket Science
"Andrew" wrote in message ... On 01/10/2019 17:23, Jethro_uk wrote: You can bet your life the lifts in these £5,000/month flats are never out of order. And that is almost certainly because these residents respect the building and its facilities, unlike joe public on his mobility scooter who couldn't give a ****, while muttering 'they should do something about it'. I live in a block where we respect and *need* the lift we also have an on-site warden who can/does call out the repair company immediately when it goes wrong doesn't stop it being unavailable for a week at a time when they need new "parts" tim |
Lifts - not Rocket Science
"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message idual.net... On Wed, 2 Oct 2019 05:39:53 -0700 (PDT), whisky-dave wrote: The latest ones near me seemed cheap ranging from £120K but on reading the small print it;s for 25% owenership! so yuo have a mortgage for £100K and then have to pay some form of rent, and then when the lift breaks down and needs replacing what then ? 75% landlords problem. no it's not in shared ownership you are still responsible for your share of 100% of the maintenance costs tim |
Lifts - not Rocket Science
"whisky-dave" wrote in message ... On Wednesday, 2 October 2019 09:28:22 UTC+1, nightjar wrote: On 01/10/2019 16:40, John wrote: Since my wife has been consigned to a wheelchair it means I notice lifts more. This weekend I encountered one (in a newish building of a company very committed to access) - the one floor lift has never worked so they have boarded up the doors (according to a member of staff) A local superstore - lift out of action 3 times last week. Old Person's Residential Complex - Lift out of action as service contract has gone to a firm that prefers a different brand and it is waiting for parts but may fit a new controller. Daughter's place of work - blocking a door is likely to put it out of action for a week What is it with lifts? - they aren't rocket science. What are the common causes - and are there generic issues that better disign could cure? It is about half a century since I was involved with inspecting any lift. Back then, the problem was usually that they were rather too reliable. By the time they eventually went wrong, it was difficult to get spare parts. These days, I suspect that software problems are more likely. I've been wondering what happens regarding the new tower blocks that people are buying flats in for 1/2 million and it;s estimated that after ~15 years the lifts will need replacing and will cost a fortune to replace everything due to H&S regarding lifts, who's going to pay. The latest ones near me seemed cheap ranging from £120K but on reading the small print it;s for 25% owenership! so yuo have a mortgage for £100K and then have to pay some form of rent, and then when the lift breaks down and needs replacing what then ? we have a sinking! fund for such items Management think that it needs to be solvent to the tune of 250K to pay for such items tim -- Colin Bignell |
Lifts - not Rocket Science
On 03/10/2019 21:19, tim... wrote:
"Andrew" wrote in message ... On 01/10/2019 17:23, Jethro_uk wrote: You can bet your life the lifts in these £5,000/month flats are never out of order. And that is almost certainly because these residents respect the building and its facilities, unlike joe public on his mobility scooter who couldn't give a ****, while muttering 'they should do something about it'. I live in a block where we respect and *need* the lift we also have an on-site warden who can/does call out the repair company immediately when it goes wrong doesn't stop it being unavailable for a week at a time when they need new "parts" tim Usually caused by the false economy of having a 3rd party service contract, "because its cheaper than having a contract with insert lift manufacturer here". The block where I had a flat, deliberately chose to go with Otis on the basis that the enhanced spares availability was worth the the extra expense. |
Lifts - not Rocket Science
On Saturday, 5 October 2019 09:40:09 UTC+1, John Kenyon wrote:
On 03/10/2019 21:19, tim... wrote: "Andrew" wrote in message ... On 01/10/2019 17:23, Jethro_uk wrote: You can bet your life the lifts in these £5,000/month flats are never out of order. And that is almost certainly because these residents respect the building and its facilities, unlike joe public on his mobility scooter who couldn't give a ****, while muttering 'they should do something about it'. I live in a block where we respect and *need* the lift we also have an on-site warden who can/does call out the repair company immediately when it goes wrong doesn't stop it being unavailable for a week at a time when they need new "parts" tim Usually caused by the false economy of having a 3rd party service contract, "because its cheaper than having a contract with insert lift manufacturer here". The block where I had a flat, deliberately chose to go with Otis on the basis that the enhanced spares availability was worth the the extra expense. Any idea of whether or not it was worth it ? |
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