On 02/10/2019 11:02, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
ARW wrote:
On 01/10/2019 13:41, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
wrote:
Having the freezer and fridge on its own radial and hence its own RCBO
means higher integrity when other circuits open their MCB or RCD......
And no spoiled food to throw away!


Do MCBs etc in your house often trip when you're out?

In some ways you're less likely to notice this happen if you have a
dedicated circuit for the freezer.


You said freezer and not fridge freezer.

The OP didn't say fridge freezer either. ;-)

OTOH the person to whom you were replying did.

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

In article ,
Robin wrote:
On 02/10/2019 11:02, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
ARW wrote:
On 01/10/2019 13:41, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
wrote:
Having the freezer and fridge on its own radial and hence its own RCBO
means higher integrity when other circuits open their MCB or RCD......
And no spoiled food to throw away!


Do MCBs etc in your house often trip when you're out?

In some ways you're less likely to notice this happen if you have a
dedicated circuit for the freezer.


You said freezer and not fridge freezer.

The OP didn't say fridge freezer either. ;-)

OTOH the person to whom you were replying did.

Rather oddly for here, I quoted the bit I was replying too. And still have.
So you can actually read it if you want to.

I leave it to others to quote the entire thread.

--
*A dog's not just for Christmas, it's alright on a Friday night too*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

No external sockets at the front of the house, so cement mixer tends to get plugged in to one of the kitchen sockets.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
ARW wrote:
You've 5 radials for the kitchen?!?


TMH's daughter got three.

Oven, hob and fridge freezer.

Do you need separate radials for oven and hob, rather than one suitably
rated for both?


An induction hob can require one of its own- ours has one.

On 02/10/2019 11:00, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
ARW wrote:
You've 5 radials for the kitchen?!?


TMH's daughter got three.

Oven, hob and fridge freezer.

Do you need separate radials for oven and hob, rather than one suitably
rated for both?


ISTR that the oven specified a 16A or 20A MCB.

TBH in the grand scale of a rewire an extra 12m of 2.5 T&E, a 20A DP
switch and a RCBO is not a lot of money or extra work.

She spent a lot more on the smokes, heat and CO alarms (3 optical
smokes, 1 ionisation smoke and 1 combined heat/CO detector). An easy
upsell to a paramedic[1] that has attended burning houses and CO deaths:-)

[1] I do a lot of work at ambulance stations and I have never seen so
many people who smoke.

--
Adam

On 02/10/2019 14:34, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Robin wrote:
On 02/10/2019 11:02, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
ARW wrote:
On 01/10/2019 13:41, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
wrote:
Having the freezer and fridge on its own radial and hence its own RCBO
means higher integrity when other circuits open their MCB or RCD......
And no spoiled food to throw away!


Do MCBs etc in your house often trip when you're out?

In some ways you're less likely to notice this happen if you have a
dedicated circuit for the freezer.


You said freezer and not fridge freezer.

The OP didn't say fridge freezer either. ;-)

OTOH the person to whom you were replying did.

Rather oddly for here, I quoted the bit I was replying too. And still have.
So you can actually read it if you want to.

I leave it to others to quote the entire thread.


I suggest that that the fridge, freezer or the fridge freezer should be
on the same RCBO as the TV in social housing.

That way they will notice if something trips:-)

--
Adam

"ARW" wrote in message
...
On 02/10/2019 11:00, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
ARW wrote:
You've 5 radials for the kitchen?!?


TMH's daughter got three.

Oven, hob and fridge freezer.

Do you need separate radials for oven and hob, rather than one suitably
rated for both?


ISTR that the oven specified a 16A or 20A MCB.

TBH in the grand scale of a rewire an extra 12m of 2.5 T&E, a 20A DP
switch and a RCBO is not a lot of money or extra work.

She spent a lot more on the smokes, heat and CO alarms (3 optical smokes,
1 ionisation smoke and 1 combined heat/CO detector). An easy upsell to a
paramedic[1] that has attended burning houses and CO deaths:-)

[1] I do a lot of work at ambulance stations and I have never seen so many
people who smoke.

Weird. I know one ambo well and he doesnt smoke.

Dont see any of the ambos smoking outside out ambo station either.

Maybe ours arent as stupid as your ambos.

On Thu, 3 Oct 2019 04:05:54 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH senile asshole troll's latest troll****

04:05??? And you've been up and trolling for almost THREE HOURS already!

Come on, do post for us the long list of the psychoptropic drugs you have to
use every day, you abnormal forsaken lonely trolling senile pest!

--
Kerr-Mudd,John addressing senile Rot:
"Auto-contradictor Rod is back! (in the KF)"
MID:

On Wednesday, 2 October 2019 18:50:35 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
I suggest that that the fridge, freezer or the fridge freezer should be
on the same RCBO as the TV in social housing.
That way they will notice if something trips:-)

But they'd notice the light not coming on when they go to get more beer while watching telly anyway.

Owain

On 02/10/2019 14:57, Brian Reay wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
ARW wrote:
You've 5 radials for the kitchen?!?


TMH's daughter got three.

Oven, hob and fridge freezer.

Do you need separate radials for oven and hob, rather than one suitably
rated for both?


An induction hob can require one of its own- ours has one.

I think that when I move the cooker connection from one side of our
kitchen to the other, it'll cope with both hob and double oven with no
problem - thanks to being supplied via a length of 16mm2 T&E.

Well, it was free when I put it in 26 years ago!

SteveW

On 02/10/2019 18:47, ARW wrote:
On 02/10/2019 11:00, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Â*Â*Â* ARW wrote:
You've 5 radials for the kitchen?!?


TMH's daughter got three.

Oven, hob and fridge freezer.

Do you need separate radials for oven and hob, rather than one suitably
rated for both?


ISTR that the oven specified a 16A or 20A MCB.

TBH in the grand scale of a rewire an extra 12m of 2.5 T&E, a 20A DP
switch and a RCBO is not a lot of money or extra work.

With all these separate circuits do you find the sheer size of the new
CU becomes an issue with some rewires? (The CU here is under the stairs
which ought to make it easy but the location of the incomer, meter board
and CH pipes means I'm leaning towards stacking 2 CUs to be sure of
enough ways next time.)

She spent a lot more on the smokes, heat and CO alarms (3 optical
smokes, 1 ionisation smoke and 1 combined heat/CO detector). An easy
upsell to a paramedic[1] that has attended burning houses and CO deaths:-)


I fitted 5 in this 3 bed terrace after seeing how long it could take for
smoke to spread.


--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 01/10/2019 15:21, wrote:
On Tuesday, 1 October 2019 12:14:54 UTC+1, wrote:
I am wavering between leaving it all on the ring....
Nah!
Putting in two radials (one on each aforementioned T&E, fed by RCBOs.
One for the Bumble, and one for the F/F.

If you join the ends of those radials together you can make a 32A ring.

And save the cost of a second RCBO.

And lose the dedicated supply to the freezer with the risk that a fault
on the tumble drier trips the ring and defrosts the frozen food.

On 02/10/2019 23:13, Mike Clarke wrote:
On 01/10/2019 15:21, wrote:
On Tuesday, 1 October 2019 12:14:54 UTC+1, Â* wrote:
I am wavering between leaving it all on the ring....
Nah!
Putting in two radials (one on each aforementioned T&E, fed by RCBOs.
One for the Bumble, and one for the F/F.

If you join the ends of those radials together you can make a 32A ring.

And save the cost of a second RCBO.

And lose the dedicated supply to the freezer with the risk that a fault
on the tumble drier trips the ring and defrosts the frozen food.

That's not something that would worry me. If the ring trips due to the
tumble dryer, the food will remain frozen for 12 hours or more and I'm
not likely to leave the tumble dryer running and go away.

The bigger problem is an installation like mine, with a whole house RCD.
With a large number of electronic devices, with leaky filters on their
supplies, a random trip at any time is possible.

When I have some more money to hand, I'll look at converting to RCBOs,
spreading the leakage and reducing the chance of trips, but they're not
cheap for Crabtree Starbreaker consumer units.

SteveW

On 02/10/2019 22:42, Robin wrote:
On 02/10/2019 18:47, ARW wrote:
On 02/10/2019 11:00, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Â*Â*Â* ARW wrote:
You've 5 radials for the kitchen?!?


TMH's daughter got three.

Oven, hob and fridge freezer.

Do you need separate radials for oven and hob, rather than one suitably
rated for both?


ISTR that the oven specified a 16A or 20A MCB.

TBH in the grand scale of a rewire an extra 12m of 2.5 T&E, a 20A DP
switch and a RCBO is not a lot of money or extra work.

With all these separate circuits do you find the sheer size of the new
CU becomes an issue with some rewires?Â* (The CU here is under the stairs
which ought to make it easy but the location of the incomer, meter board
and CH pipes means I'm leaning towards stacking 2 CUs to be sure of
enough ways next time.)

I quite often go for multiple CUs - not only for adequate numbers of
ways, but it can also make sense to have them "purposed" - say like here
house circuits on one, and outside / outbuilding circuits on another.





--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 03/10/2019 00:00, Steve Walker wrote:
On 02/10/2019 23:13, Mike Clarke wrote:
On 01/10/2019 15:21, wrote:
On Tuesday, 1 October 2019 12:14:54 UTC+1, Â* wrote:
I am wavering between leaving it all on the ring....
Nah!
Putting in two radials (one on each aforementioned T&E, fed by RCBOs.
One for the Bumble, and one for the F/F.

If you join the ends of those radials together you can make a 32A ring.

And save the cost of a second RCBO.

And lose the dedicated supply to the freezer with the risk that a
fault on the tumble drier trips the ring and defrosts the frozen food.

That's not something that would worry me. If the ring trips due to the
tumble dryer, the food will remain frozen for 12 hours or more and I'm
not likely to leave the tumble dryer running and go away.

The bigger problem is an installation like mine, with a whole house RCD.
With a large number of electronic devices, with leaky filters on their
supplies, a random trip at any time is possible.

When I have some more money to hand, I'll look at converting to RCBOs,
spreading the leakage and reducing the chance of trips, but they're not
cheap for Crabtree Starbreaker consumer units.

You may find the cost of a set of RCBO + a new CU is less than the cost
of the Crabtree RCBOs on their own.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 03/10/2019 14:00, John Rumm wrote:
On 02/10/2019 22:42, Robin wrote:
On 02/10/2019 18:47, ARW wrote:
On 02/10/2019 11:00, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Â*Â*Â* ARW wrote:
You've 5 radials for the kitchen?!?


TMH's daughter got three.

Oven, hob and fridge freezer.

Do you need separate radials for oven and hob, rather than one suitably
rated for both?


ISTR that the oven specified a 16A or 20A MCB.

TBH in the grand scale of a rewire an extra 12m of 2.5 T&E, a 20A DP
switch and a RCBO is not a lot of money or extra work.

With all these separate circuits do you find the sheer size of the new
CU becomes an issue with some rewires?Â* (The CU here is under the
stairs which ought to make it easy but the location of the incomer,
meter board and CH pipes means I'm leaning towards stacking 2 CUs to
be sure of enough ways next time.)

I quite often go for multiple CUs - not only for adequate numbers of
ways, but it can also make sense to have them "purposed" - say like here
house circuits on one, and outside / outbuilding circuits on another.


Thanks for that.

JOOI, where do you stand on 2 CUs with separate "master switches"[1]? I
admit one of the attractions for me would be the ability to plod
ever-so-slowly at changes on one's circuits while power is provided by
t'other for essential devices (modem, router, PCs, kettle, boiler etc) -
with injudicial use of extension leads where necessary.

[1] I already have an isolator after the meter that I'd label as the
real Master Switch
--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 02/10/2019 22:42, Robin wrote:
On 02/10/2019 18:47, ARW wrote:

TBH in the grand scale of a rewire an extra 12m of 2.5 T&E, a 20A DP
switch and a RCBO is not a lot of money or extra work.

With all these separate circuits do you find the sheer size of the new
CU becomes an issue with some rewires?Â* (The CU here is under the stairs
which ought to make it easy but the location of the incomer, meter board
and CH pipes means I'm leaning towards stacking 2 CUs to be sure of
enough ways next time.)

Well an all RCBO CU does away with 4 modules of a dual RCD CU. That was
one of the reasons I fitted an all RCBO install in this case and I still
had to move the cutout and the meter a bit to get the new CU in (ISTR it
was 12 way).

A double stacked CU would have worked.

BTW I am a fan of putting the smokes on with the lights for the obvious
reasons. The top tip of the day though is to feed the smokes via a
labelled DP keyswitch so that you can isolate the smokes for maintenance
and leave the lights on.


--
Adam

On 03/10/2019 19:41, ARW wrote:
On 02/10/2019 22:42, Robin wrote:
On 02/10/2019 18:47, ARW wrote:

TBH in the grand scale of a rewire an extra 12m of 2.5 T&E, a 20A DP
switch and a RCBO is not a lot of money or extra work.

With all these separate circuits do you find the sheer size of the new
CU becomes an issue with some rewires?Â* (The CU here is under the
stairs which ought to make it easy but the location of the incomer,
meter board and CH pipes means I'm leaning towards stacking 2 CUs to
be sure of enough ways next time.)

Well an all RCBO CU does away with 4 modules of a dual RCD CU. That was
one of the reasons I fitted an all RCBO install in this case and I still
had to move the cutout and the meter a bit to get the new CU in (ISTR it
was 12 way).

A double stacked CU would have worked.

Thanks.


--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On Thursday, 3 October 2019 19:41:45 UTC+1, ARW wrote:

BTW I am a fan of putting the smokes on with the lights for the obvious
reasons. The top tip of the day though is to feed the smokes via a
labelled DP keyswitch so that you can isolate the smokes for maintenance
and leave the lights on.

I thought that was no longer allowed

Another thing could be to fit a battery powered mains failure alarm on the same circuit as the smokes....

In any case, i have the house alarm and CCTV on the same RCBO as the smokes.

The smokes are also wired in as a 24 hour zone on the alarm panel and ditto for the CO detectors.

So when there is a power cut. The alarm keypads sound internally and I get an email message from the alarm panel.

On 03/10/2019 15:26, Robin wrote:
On 03/10/2019 14:00, John Rumm wrote:

I quite often go for multiple CUs - not only for adequate numbers of
ways, but it can also make sense to have them "purposed" - say like
here house circuits on one, and outside / outbuilding circuits on
another.


Thanks for that.

JOOI, where do you stand on 2 CUs with separate "master switches"[1]?Â* I
admit one of the attractions for me would be the ability to plod
ever-so-slowly at changes on one's circuits while power is providedÂ* by
t'other for essential devices (modem, router, PCs, kettle, boiler etc) -
with injudicial use of extension leads where necessary.

In my installation I installed a stand alone enclosure with a DP switch
in it, and labelled that as "Main Switch". Tails from that feed a
service connector block, thence CUs. However that is a permanent setup,
not a transitional arrangement.

It avoids any doubt for someone needing to isolate in an emergency.

For just migrating from one CU to another I would not be worried about
only having the individual switching on the CUs.

Even as a permanent install it would probably be ok in most cases, so
long as the occupants are aware of the arrangement.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 04/10/2019 01:27, wrote:
On Thursday, 3 October 2019 19:41:45 UTC+1, ARW wrote:

BTW I am a fan of putting the smokes on with the lights for the obvious
reasons. The top tip of the day though is to feed the smokes via a
labelled DP keyswitch so that you can isolate the smokes for maintenance
and leave the lights on.

I thought that was no longer allowed


It in fashion this season with NICEIC. Need I say any more?

--
Adam

On 04/10/2019 07:49, wrote:
Another thing could be to fit a battery powered mains failure alarm on the same circuit as the smokes....

In any case, i have the house alarm and CCTV on the same RCBO as the smokes.

The smokes are also wired in as a 24 hour zone on the alarm panel and ditto for the CO detectors.

So when there is a power cut. The alarm keypads sound internally and I get an email message from the alarm panel.


The Veritas alarm sirens give a fire siren sound if the the smokes
linked to the alarm activate.

--
Adam

On Sat, 05 Oct 2019 18:20:32 +0100, John Rumm wrote:

In my installation I installed a stand alone enclosure with a DP switch
in it, and labelled that as "Main Switch". Tails from that feed a
service connector block, thence CUs. However that is a permanent setup,
not a transitional arrangement.

I did the same. Mine is outboard of the meter, though.

--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On Thu, 03 Oct 2019 23:49:57 -0700, stephenten wrote:

Another thing could be to fit a battery powered mains failure alarm on
the same circuit as the smokes....

In any case, i have the house alarm and CCTV on the same RCBO as the
smokes.

The smokes are also wired in as a 24 hour zone on the alarm panel and
ditto for the CO detectors.

So when there is a power cut. The alarm keypads sound internally and I
get an email message from the alarm panel.

I have the smokes on the same circuit as the non-maintainmed emergency
lights. Obvious when the circuit trips.

--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor