"Andrew" wrote in message
...
On 15/09/2019 11:13, NY wrote:
DRLs also have the advantage that they dim at night (eg when the
side/headlights are on) so they are only as bright as they need to be for
the ambient lighting.

That's bizarre. Why bother to have 'side lamps' at the front of
a vehicle that also has permanent DRLs ?.

Sorry, when I said "side" I really meant "side and tail, where side lights
are normally the same lights as DRLs". So the same LEDs go from bright to
less bright when you turn on side/tail and then headlights.

My Peugeot has all filament bulbs, but it has *separate* DRLs to the side
light bulbs, maybe to give brighter lights than can be achieved from 5W side
light bulbs. The DRLs go out when the side lights are turned on.

On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 09:21:40 +0100, ARW wrote:

Highway code rule 114

You MUST NOT
snip
In stationary queues of traffic, drivers should apply the parking brake
and, once the following traffic has stopped, take their foot off the
footbrake to deactivate the vehicle brake lights. This will minimise
glare to road users behind until the traffic moves again.

99% of drivers do not do that...

The "eco" stop/start works fine on my Freelander II. Linked with the
clutch though. Keep the clutch pressed when at rest it doesn't stop
the engine. Press the clutch when at rest and its in "eco" it starts.
It'll also auto start if the demand from the cars systems is high or
rises. It'll also autostart if you let the car roll by releasing the
footbrake. It won't "eco" if the ambient temperature is below about 7
C. In opertaion it's transparent

The "hill start assist" isn't quite as transparent. I'm never quite
sure if its going to operate or not. With no dashboard indication you
don't know untill you release the footbrake and the car rolls back or
not... The electric parking brake won't release unless you have your
foot on the footbrake.


--
Cheers
Dave.

On 14/09/2019 20:47, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 14/09/19 18:53, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
I drove my first 'stop/start' vehicle today. Press the brake pedal down
and the engine stops, apply the handbrake and release the foot-brake
and the engine restarts - what a pointless system for anyone who drives
properly and uses the handbrake.

Oh, there's even greater stupidity than that. In my car. with the engine
stopped when I have my foot on the brake, if I then unclip my seatbelt
(such as when I'm just about to drive into my garage) the engine restarts!


WTF?

--
Adam

In article ,
NY wrote:
If you are driving in stop-start traffic, so the engine is stopping and
then having to be restarted every few seconds, it will eventually
flatten the battery because the time that the engine is running is not
enough to put back the charge that restarting has taken out of it. Cars
with auto-stop usually have batteries with larger amp-hour ratings (*)
so they can store more charge to compensate for the increased use of
the starter motor.

They also inhibit the auto engine stop if the battery is low. And I'd
guess have software/engine designed for an instant start. Which may not be
100% ideal for running. You never get owt for nowt.

--
*A dog's not just for Christmas, it's alright on a Friday night too*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Andrew wrote:
On 14/09/2019 18:53, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
I drove my first 'stop/start' vehicle today. Press the brake pedal
down and the engine stops, apply the handbrake and release the
foot-brake and the engine restarts - what a pointless system for
anyone who drives properly and uses the handbrake.

Apart from hill starts, who uses the handbrake these days ?.

All the time. I have consideration for those behind me. But I'm rare.

But I have another motive. Applying the handbrake disables the 'creep'
function on my PDK auto, and thus reduces clutch wear.

--
*Where there's a will, I want to be in it.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Andrew wrote:
On 14/09/2019 19:36, Paddy Dzell wrote:
We have a Lexus RX450h hybrid a

If that is the one with a V6 petrol engine, then be
aware that changing the spark plugs takes about 3
hours on some models. Involves removing the inlet
manifolds according to me ex-MOT tester neighbour.

Depending on things, some spark plug have a 100,000 mile life. So perhaps
not much of a deal breaker.

--
*I'd kill for a Nobel Peace Prize *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Andrew wrote:
The problem was the handbrake on some cars was offset
towards the left hand side of the car, so easier to
heave on correctly in an LHD car but the UK RHD
conversion left it offset to the left. People with
limited wrist and arm strength, like females, could
not then apply with anough force.

Then the hot disks cooled and shrunk slightly
releasing what limited grip had been applied.

Lots of cars have drum handbrakes. Which tighten the grip as they cool.

--
*The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on my list.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

NY wrote:

If you are driving in stop-start traffic, so the engine is stopping and
then having to be restarted every few seconds, it will eventually
flatten the battery because the time that the engine is running is not
enough to put back the charge that restarting has taken out of it. Cars
with auto-stop usually have batteries with larger amp-hour ratings (*)
so they can store more charge to compensate for the increased use of the
starter motor.

Mine recuperates energy from slowing/braking, it won't use stop/start
until the engine is warmed-up, and sometimes won't use it when e.g.
aircon is working harder.

Dave Plowman wrote:

Applying the handbrake disables the 'creep'
function on my PDK auto, and thus reduces clutch wear.

surprised it doesn't have a 'hold' feature ... once I come to a stop the
parking brake lamp comes on as green rather than red, meaning the brakes
will remain applied using the ABS servo, so you can take your foot off
the brake and save the driver behind from glare, if it stays that way
for too long, it applies the electric parking brake instead.

Presumably Porsche use Bosch brake control systems?

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

I'd guess have software/engine designed for an instant start.

The re-start is much quicker than a normal start from cold, but still
when emerging from known 'tricky' junctions where oncoming traffic is
obscured and tends to approach rather quickly, I turn off the stop-start
(easier to knock the gear selector into 'S' mode than reach for the
dedicated button to disable it)

On 15/09/19 11:55, ARW wrote:
On 14/09/2019 20:47, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 14/09/19 18:53, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
I drove my first 'stop/start' vehicle today. Press the brake pedal down
and the engine stops, apply the handbrake and release the foot-brake
and the engine restarts - what a pointless system for anyone who drives
properly and uses the handbrake.

Oh, there's even greater stupidity than that. In my car. with the engine
stopped when I have my foot on the brake, if I then unclip my seatbelt
(such as when I'm just about to drive into my garage) the engine restarts!


WTF?

Yep - Honda Jazz auto. I have a remote-controlled roller garage door, so
can just sit in the car until it fully opens and then drive in. But I
can't think of any sensible reason why you would want to have the engine
restart when you unclip the seatbelt.

--

Jeff

On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 11:06:47 +0100, NY wrote:

My Peugeot 308 has the handbrake lever offset to the left, with some
drinks holders etc between the lever and the driver. I presume this is
because the car is designed to be LHD and modified for RHD: I doubt
whether the lever and drinks containers are reversed for LHD cars.

Funny you should say that. About four years ago I bought a new Ford S-
Max; it was the first one I'd had with an electric parking brake. The
switch was on the centre console, on the left hand side (further from the
driver), presumably because it was designed for LHD. The switches on the
right were engine stop/start override, park assist, and sensor disable.

Got a new one last Christmas; they'd swapped them over for RHD models. I
wonder if passengers were operating them while the car was moving,
thinking they were electric window switches (but I'd have thought there'd
be an interlock, although that would remove a second way of braking and
that probably contravenes Construction and Use).




--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On 15/09/19 12:20, Andy Burns wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

I'd guess have software/engine designed for an instant start.

The re-start is much quicker than a normal start from cold, but still
when emerging from known 'tricky' junctions where oncoming traffic is
obscured and tends to approach rather quickly, I turn off the stop-start
(easier to knock the gear selector into 'S' mode than reach for the
dedicated button to disable it)

I've never understood what happen with an autostart rather than key
start. With the latter, everything is turned off, such as the satnav and
radio. I assume that is due to voltage drop and/or perhaps transient
(spike) protection.With the former, the satnav display remains on and
operational (it obviously makes no sense to need resetting when
stopping/starting in traffic). But how are the other circuits isolated
from the starter at that time? And if they can be isolated then, why not
with a key restart?

--

Jeff

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Andrew wrote:
The problem was the handbrake on some cars was offset
towards the left hand side of the car, so easier to
heave on correctly in an LHD car but the UK RHD
conversion left it offset to the left. People with
limited wrist and arm strength, like females, could
not then apply with anough force.

Then the hot disks cooled and shrunk slightly
releasing what limited grip had been applied.

Lots of cars have drum handbrakes. Which tighten the grip as they cool.

Really? So the rear wheels have both discs and drums? Why would they go to
the extra expense of fitting a second braking system (drums and brake
shoes), when they could just have the handbrake apply the rear brake pads
onto the discs in exactly the same way as the footbrake does to all four
brakes? I suppose it gives extra redundancy in case the rear disc brakes
fail.

On 15/09/2019 10:47, Andrew wrote:
On 15/09/2019 09:21, ARW wrote:
Highway code rule 114

You MUST NOT

use any lights in a way which would dazzle or cause discomfort to
other road users, including pedestrians, cyclists and horse riders

Have all modern cars with daytime running lamps been exempted
from this then ?.



Have you seen any that dazzle or cause discomfort?

Remember they are for use in Daylight and should either turn off or dim
when main lights are on, ie when it isn't Daylight or conditions are poor.

Poorly adjusted headlights are far more of problem or, even worse, those
who don't to turn their lights on.

On 15/09/2019 12:51, NY wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
* Andrew wrote:
The problem was the handbrake on some cars was offset
towards the left hand side of the car, so easier to
heave on correctly in an LHD car but the UK RHD
conversion left it offset to the left. People with
limited wrist and arm strength, like females, could
not then apply with anough force.

Then the hot disks cooled and shrunk slightly
releasing what limited grip had been applied.

Lots of cars have drum handbrakes. Which tighten the grip as they cool.

Really? So the rear wheels have both discs and drums? Why would they go
to the extra expense of fitting a second braking system (drums and brake
shoes), when they could just have the handbrake apply the rear brake
pads onto the discs in exactly the same way as the footbrake does to all
four brakes? I suppose it gives extra redundancy in case the rear disc
brakes fail.

I can only think of certain Saab models that had auxiliary drum
brakes for the handbrake inside the rear disks.

On 15/09/2019 13:03, Brian Reay wrote:
Have you seen any that dazzle or cause discomfort?

Yes, especially when leaving bright sunlight and
entering a section of road with big trees in leaf
when a car coming the other way has DLRs .

Jeff Layman wrote:

I've never understood what happen with an autostart rather than key
start. With the latter, everything is turned off, such as the satnav and
radio. I assume that is due to voltage drop and/or perhaps transient
(spike) protection.With the former, the satnav display remains on and
operational (it obviously makes no sense to need resetting when
stopping/starting in traffic). But how are the other circuits isolated
from the starter at that time? And if they can be isolated then, why not
with a key restart?

Rather than engage the pinion starter, it runs the alternator as a motor
and restarts via the fan belt, that's why it doesn't use it until the
engine is warmed-up and the oil is less viscous.

"Andrew" wrote in message
...
On 15/09/2019 13:03, Brian Reay wrote:
Have you seen any that dazzle or cause discomfort?

Yes, especially when leaving bright sunlight and
entering a section of road with big trees in leaf
when a car coming the other way has DLRs.

On the other hand, if the oncoming car has its DRLs on, you will at least
*see* it, when everything else is very dark because your eyes haven't yet
adjusted to the deep shade after the bright sunlight. That's when DRLs are
at their most useful - when lighting changes frequently. Some of the best
DRLs might even be designed to dim when the ambient light dims from full
sunlight to deep shade.

DRLs during the day are *far, far* less dazzling (for me) than brake lights
on the car a few feet in front of me at night in a queue. That's why I keep
my use of footbrake to a minimum (ie not to keep me stationary in a queue of
traffic). I tend to keep my footbrake on if I'm the rear-most car in a
queue, and there could be fast traffic approaching, but once the car behind
me has started to slow down, I come off the footbrake, having already have
applied the handbrake as part of the subconscious "footbrake to a halt,
handbrake, neutral, waggle gear lever to confirm I really *am* in neutral,
clutch-up" procedure.

On 15/09/2019 13:03, Andrew wrote:
On 15/09/2019 12:51, NY wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Â* Andrew wrote:
The problem was the handbrake on some cars was offset
towards the left hand side of the car, so easier to
heave on correctly in an LHD car but the UK RHD
conversion left it offset to the left. People with
limited wrist and arm strength, like females, could
not then apply with anough force.

Then the hot disks cooled and shrunk slightly
releasing what limited grip had been applied.

Lots of cars have drum handbrakes. Which tighten the grip as they cool.

Really? So the rear wheels have both discs and drums? Why would they
go to the extra expense of fitting a second braking system (drums and
brake shoes), when they could just have the handbrake apply the rear
brake pads onto the discs in exactly the same way as the footbrake
does to all four brakes? I suppose it gives extra redundancy in case
the rear disc brakes fail.

I can only think of certain Saab models that had auxiliary drum
brakes for the handbrake inside the rear disks.


Defender had handravke on a drum fitted to the propshaft

Many small cars still dont have rear disks - my freelander 1 for a start


--
In todays liberal progressive conflict-free education system, everyone
gets full Marx.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Many small cars still dont have rear disks - my freelander 1 for a start

Are there any advantages to fitting drum rather than disc brakes? Are they
cheaper? Easier/cheaper to maintain?

I'm trying to work out why some cars might *not* have discs all round.

On Sunday, September 15, 2019 at 9:21:41 AM UTC+1, ARW wrote:
On 14/09/2019 23:30, wrote:

I think you can get done for keeping your foot on the brake & not using the handbrake. Even if that's not correct, it's not good practice. If an accidental shunt happens, drivers are prone to taking heir foot off the brake, resulting in more damage & hazard to pedestrians etc, and worse at T junctions.

Highway code rule 114

You MUST NOT

use any lights in a way which would dazzle or cause discomfort to other
road users, including pedestrians, cyclists and horse riders

use front or rear fog lights unless visibility is seriously reduced. You
MUST switch them off when visibility improves to avoid dazzling other
road users (see Rule 226).

In stationary queues of traffic, drivers should apply the parking brake
and, once the following traffic has stopped, take their foot off the
footbrake to deactivate the vehicle brake lights. This will minimise
glare to road users behind until the traffic moves again.



--
Adam

My car (BMW 7) has an automatic handbrake and an automatic gear box. When the auto handbrake function is enabled and the car comes to a stop, the handbrake is automatically applied. To move off just press the accelerator. While at rest the engine stops as well. Nothing could be simpler.
However I dislike the fact that the rear brake lights stay on when the handbrake is applied

On Sunday, September 15, 2019 at 10:45:30 AM UTC+1, NY wrote:
"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
...
I would have also thought it puts a lot of stress on parts from cycling
through, like the starter motor and the actual linkages in the engine
itself.

If you are driving in stop-start traffic, so the engine is stopping and then
having to be restarted every few seconds, it will eventually flatten the
battery because the time that the engine is running is not enough to put
back the charge that restarting has taken out of it. Cars with auto-stop
usually have batteries with larger amp-hour ratings (*) so they can store
more charge to compensate for the increased use of the starter motor.

Usually I find that the engine stops once when I join a queue of traffic at
lights, and then restarts when I'm ready to start moving through the lights.
But in a long queue, it may have to stop and start several times to get me
right through to the head of the queue where I can then drive at a normal
speed.


(*) Just as diesels have a larger Ahr rating battery that petrols because
the higher compression makes it more difficult for the starter to turn the
engine over.

Properly applied stop/ start technology monitors the condition of the battery and will not function if it senses the battery level is getting low.

On 15/09/19 13:23, Andy Burns wrote:
Jeff Layman wrote:

I've never understood what happen with an autostart rather than key
start. With the latter, everything is turned off, such as the satnav and
radio. I assume that is due to voltage drop and/or perhaps transient
(spike) protection.With the former, the satnav display remains on and
operational (it obviously makes no sense to need resetting when
stopping/starting in traffic). But how are the other circuits isolated
from the starter at that time? And if they can be isolated then, why not
with a key restart?

Rather than engage the pinion starter, it runs the alternator as a motor
and restarts via the fan belt, that's why it doesn't use it until the
engine is warmed-up and the oil is less viscous.

Thanks. I guess they worked out an efficient way to turn an alternator
into a motor.

--

Jeff

In article ,
NY wrote:
Lots of cars have drum handbrakes. Which tighten the grip as they cool.

Really? So the rear wheels have both discs and drums? Why would they go to
the extra expense of fitting a second braking system (drums and brake
shoes), when they could just have the handbrake apply the rear brake pads
onto the discs in exactly the same way as the footbrake does to all four
brakes? I suppose it gives extra redundancy in case the rear disc brakes
fail.

The handbrake drum is part of the disc. Saves a rather complicated
mechanical mechanism to make the handbrake work on the pads. Which is
frequently troublesome. It also allows you to use a friction material more
suited to simply hold the car stationary - it doesn't have to perform well
when hot, etc.

--
*A cartoonist was found dead in his home. Details are sketchy.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Andrew wrote:
to the extra expense of fitting a second braking system (drums and brake
shoes), when they could just have the handbrake apply the rear brake
pads onto the discs in exactly the same way as the footbrake does to all
four brakes? I suppose it gives extra redundancy in case the rear disc
brakes fail.

I can only think of certain Saab models that had auxiliary drum
brakes for the handbrake inside the rear disks.

BMW, Audi, Porsche?

--
*Why are a wise man and a wise guy opposites? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I can only think of certain Saab models that had auxiliary drum
brakes for the handbrake inside the rear disks.


Defender had handravke on a drum fitted to the propshaft

Many small cars still dont have rear disks - my freelander 1 for a start

That's because it was built down to a price and likely no ABS. Only the
very cheapest vehicles these days don't have rear discs.

--
*Sticks and stones may break my bones but whips and chains excite me*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 15/09/2019 14:44, NY wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Many small cars still dont have rear disks - my freelander 1 for a start

Are there any advantages to fitting drum rather than disc brakes? Are
they cheaper? Easier/cheaper to maintain?

I'm trying to work out why some cars might *not* have discs all round.

price


--
A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on
its shoes.

"Andrew" wrote in message
...
On 14/09/2019 18:53, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
I drove my first 'stop/start' vehicle today. Press the brake pedal down
and the engine stops, apply the handbrake and release the foot-brake and
the engine restarts - what a pointless system for anyone who drives
properly and uses the handbrake.

Apart from hill starts, who uses the handbrake these days ?.

I do, almost every time I park the car.

I just leave it parked in 1st gear hand brake OFF,

No point in doing it that way instead.

unless I happen to be parked (rarely) on more than a slight gradient.

"ARW" wrote in message
...
On 15/09/2019 10:29, Mike Clarke wrote:
On 15/09/2019 09:51, Rod Speed wrote:


"ARW" wrote in message
...

[snip]

Highway code rule 114

[snip]

In stationary queues of traffic, drivers should apply the parking brake
and, once the following traffic has stopped, take their foot off the
footbrake to deactivate the vehicle brake lights. This will minimise
glare to road users behind until the traffic moves again.

But they dont in fact ever fine people for not doing the stuff in that
last para.

Note that it says 'should apply the parking brake' i.e. not 'must'. So
unlike the previous two paragraphs it's advisory, not mandatory, and
there's no offence to be fined for.


I think you would be very unlucky to get fined for not displaying your
brake lights and were rear ended whilst waiting at a T junction.

I meant fined for not using the parking brake so the driver
behind you wouldnt be dazzled by the brake lights.

Although I do keep them on when traffic comes to an unexpected standstill
[1] on Motorways and dual carriageways.

[1] or a slowdown that I could manage just by letting off the accelerator
as I might be able to see what someone behind my van cannot see due to the
fact they cannot see through the van and are not sat up as high as I am.

On Mon, 16 Sep 2019 06:46:47 +1000, jeikppkywk, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

Apart from hill starts, who uses the handbrake these days ?.

I do, almost every time I park the car.

Do you? Nobody gives a ****!

I just leave it parked in 1st gear hand brake OFF,

No point in doing it that way instead.

Shut it, senile troll!

--
about senile Rot Speed:
"This is like having a conversation with someone with brain damage."
MID:

"NY" wrote in message
...
"Andrew" wrote in message
...
On 14/09/2019 18:53, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
I drove my first 'stop/start' vehicle today. Press the brake pedal down
and the engine stops, apply the handbrake and release the foot-brake and
the engine restarts - what a pointless system for anyone who drives
properly and uses the handbrake.

Apart from hill starts, who uses the handbrake these days ?.
I just leave it parked in 1st gear hand brake OFF, unless
I happen to be parked (rarely) on more than a slight gradient.

I apply my handbrake whenever I come to a halt and anticipate being
stopped for more than a couple of seconds - but then I had

Highway code rule 114

"In stationary queues of traffic, drivers should apply the parking brake
and, once the following traffic has stopped, take their foot off the
footbrake to deactivate the vehicle brake lights. This will minimise glare
to road users behind until the traffic moves again."

drummed into me. I also put an automatic (on the rare occasions I drive
one) into neutral when I come to a halt, to avoid having to keep my foot
on the footbrake to prevent the car creeping forwards.

On a hill I always leave the car in gear - first if I'm facing uphill or
reverse if I'm facing downhill, so that if I accidentally start the car
without checking whether it's in gear, the starter motor will propel it
uphill rather than downhill into the adjacent car.

Cant happen with mine, the car wont start unless your foot is on the clutch.

Main downside with that approach is that if your car wont
start and you manage to stall on a railway crossing, you
cant use the starter to get the car off the railway line.

That's as a supplement to the handbrake, just in case the cable happens to
stretch over time.

Mine hasn't. The Getz is now 13 years old and the handbrake
has never been adjusted. Its so good that the car just sort of
squats if you manage to try driving off with the handbrake on.

On Mon, 16 Sep 2019 07:02:31 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

I meant

No intelligent person should give a **** what you senile toll meant or
didn't mean!

--
about senile Rot Speed:
"This is like having a conversation with someone with brain damage."
MID:

On Mon, 16 Sep 2019 07:12:34 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


Cant happen with mine,

LOL FLUSH the usual troll****!

--
Kerr-Mudd,John addressing senile Rot:
"Auto-contradictor Rod is back! (in the KF)"
MID:

"NY" wrote in message
...
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Andrew wrote:
The problem was the handbrake on some cars was offset
towards the left hand side of the car, so easier to
heave on correctly in an LHD car but the UK RHD
conversion left it offset to the left. People with
limited wrist and arm strength, like females, could
not then apply with anough force.

Then the hot disks cooled and shrunk slightly
releasing what limited grip had been applied.

Lots of cars have drum handbrakes. Which tighten the grip as they cool.

Really? So the rear wheels have both discs and drums? Why would they go to
the extra expense of fitting a second braking system (drums and brake
shoes), when they could just have the handbrake apply the rear brake pads
onto the discs in exactly the same way as the footbrake does to all four
brakes?

Because that’s a hydraulic system that doesn’t work with a parking brake.

I suppose it gives extra redundancy in case the rear disc brakes fail.

Not necessary with modern split hydraulic systems.

On Mon, 16 Sep 2019 09:16:25 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


Lots of cars have drum handbrakes. Which tighten the grip as they cool.

Really? So the rear wheels have both discs and drums? Why would they go to
the extra expense of fitting a second braking system (drums and brake
shoes), when they could just have the handbrake apply the rear brake pads
onto the discs in exactly the same way as the footbrake does to all four
brakes?

Because that¢s a hydraulic system that doesn¢t work with a parking brake.

Says who? Your "all-knowing" senile "mind", again? BG

--
Marland answering senile Rodent's statement, "I don't leak":
"That¢s because so much **** and ****e emanates from your gob that there is
nothing left to exit normally, your arsehole has clammed shut through disuse
and the end of prick is only clear because you are such a ******."
Message-ID:

"NY" wrote in message
...
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Many small cars still dont have rear disks - my freelander 1 for a start

Are there any advantages to fitting drum rather than disc brakes?

Yeah, the handbrake system is easier to do.

Are they cheaper?

Hard to calculate that given that you need a
different system for the front and back brakes.

Easier/cheaper to maintain?

Harder to maintain, easier to change disk brake pads.

I'm trying to work out why some cars might *not* have discs all round.

It would be interesting to know, but the only car designer
I know personally is dead now and he stopped designing cars
in the early 60s so likely wouldnt know even if he wasnt dead.

On Mon, 16 Sep 2019 10:18:40 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


It would be interesting to know, but the only car designer
I know personally is dead now and he stopped designing cars
in the early 60s so likely wouldn¢t know even if he wasn¢t dead.

What a bull**** artist you are, you 85-year-old trolling senile pest! LOL

--
about senile Rot Speed:
"This is like having a conversation with someone with brain damage."
MID:

On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 15:54:20 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Andrew wrote:
to the extra expense of fitting a second braking system (drums and brake
shoes), when they could just have the handbrake apply the rear brake
pads onto the discs in exactly the same way as the footbrake does to all
four brakes? I suppose it gives extra redundancy in case the rear disc
brakes fail.

I can only think of certain Saab models that had auxiliary drum
brakes for the handbrake inside the rear disks.

BMW, Audi, Porsche?
+ Rover 75

Andy Burns wrote:

The re-start is much quicker than a normal start from cold, but still
when emerging from known 'tricky' junctions where oncoming traffic is
obscured and tends to approach rather quickly, I turn off the stop-start
(easier to knock the gear selector into 'S' mode than reach for the
dedicated button to disable it)

I know the problem. My Ford seems to be sensitive to brake pedal
pressure, and it is possible to lift off enough to restart the
engine without allowing movement, which can be handy.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK
@ChrisJDixon1

Plant amazing Acers.