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  #61   Report Post  
Old June 2nd 19, 08:31 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default Consumer Units with RCBOs

On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 15:31:40 +0100, John Rumm wrote:

On 01/06/2019 13:23, PeterC wrote:
On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 09:15:11 +0100, [email protected] wrote:

On 01/06/2019 08:17, PeterC wrote:
On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 03:24:56 +0100, John Rumm wrote:

On 31/05/2019 15:42, [email protected] wrote:
On 31/05/2019 08:52, PeterC wrote:

Next door had the same problem. He used just steel capping and RCD so
that
it's all covered by just the plaster. As in my house, some runs are
not in
Safe Zones - but do go to sockets or switches and are all vertical or
horizontal. Should be easy to detect - a decent magnet would do it!


They are in safe zones then as they extended from switches and sockets
in the vertical and horizontal directions.

Yup, like in the pictures:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...lectric_cables

But some aren't within 150mm of edges.


But you said they were vertical and horizontal not bent.


They are straight but not within 150mm of an edge.


They don't need to be...

A safe (or in this context a better word might be "expected") zone is
one of three separate and distinct areas:

1) Horizontally or vertically intersecting with the location of a
visible electrical accessory. Hence the position of the zone is not a
fixed place, but is defined by where the accessory actually is. So if
you see a socket you know not to drill directly above, below, or to
either side of it. That socket might be 2m from the nearest corner - but
it still defines a zone around it.

2) At the intersection of two vertical walls - this applies even if
there is no visible accessory. So don't go drilling in the corner beside
a chimney breast even if you can't see a switch or socket.

3) At the intersection between wall and ceiling.

Basically, if installing cables, they need to be in a least one of these
zones. They can be in more than one, but there is no benefit or
requirement for this. Hence avoid running cables at odd angles, or
changing direction of them mid run.


Thanks, this clarifies it.
There's only one cable that's diagonal and that is clipped to the surface -
and avoided a re-wire.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

  #62   Report Post  
Old June 2nd 19, 08:34 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 4,077
Default Consumer Units with RCBOs

On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 17:14:06 +0100, wrote:

On 01/06/2019 13:23, PeterC wrote:
On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 09:15:11 +0100, [email protected] wrote:

On 01/06/2019 08:17, PeterC wrote:
On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 03:24:56 +0100, John Rumm wrote:

On 31/05/2019 15:42, [email protected] wrote:
On 31/05/2019 08:52, PeterC wrote:

Next door had the same problem. He used just steel capping and RCD so
that
it's all covered by just the plaster. As in my house, some runs are
not in
Safe Zones - but do go to sockets or switches and are all vertical or
horizontal. Should be easy to detect - a decent magnet would do it!


They are in safe zones then as they extended from switches and sockets
in the vertical and horizontal directions.

Yup, like in the pictures:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...lectric_cables

But some aren't within 150mm of edges.


But you said they were vertical and horizontal not bent.


They are straight but not within 150mm of an edge.


I am a very strong advocate of DIY by competent DIYers but sometimes we
all need to recognise when it is best to "get someone in", perhaps this
is a case when that would be wise. Please don't flame me for making the
suggestion.


These were done by the original electricians.
Next door had a shower pump taken from the lighting circuit that is on a
100mA RCD; that was done by a 'qualified' electrician (domestic and
commercial).
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway
  #63   Report Post  
Old June 2nd 19, 02:42 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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First recorded activity by DIYBanter: Jul 2006
Posts: 23,287
Default Consumer Units with RCBOs

On 02/06/2019 08:34, PeterC wrote:
On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 17:14:06 +0100, wrote:

On 01/06/2019 13:23, PeterC wrote:
On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 09:15:11 +0100, [email protected] wrote:

On 01/06/2019 08:17, PeterC wrote:
On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 03:24:56 +0100, John Rumm wrote:

On 31/05/2019 15:42, [email protected] wrote:
On 31/05/2019 08:52, PeterC wrote:

Next door had the same problem. He used just steel capping and RCD so
that
it's all covered by just the plaster. As in my house, some runs are
not in
Safe Zones - but do go to sockets or switches and are all vertical or
horizontal. Should be easy to detect - a decent magnet would do it!


They are in safe zones then as they extended from switches and sockets
in the vertical and horizontal directions.

Yup, like in the pictures:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...lectric_cables

But some aren't within 150mm of edges.


But you said they were vertical and horizontal not bent.

They are straight but not within 150mm of an edge.


I am a very strong advocate of DIY by competent DIYers but sometimes we
all need to recognise when it is best to "get someone in", perhaps this
is a case when that would be wise. Please don't flame me for making the
suggestion.


These were done by the original electricians.
Next door had a shower pump taken from the lighting circuit that is on a
100mA RCD; that was done by a 'qualified' electrician (domestic and
commercial).


Depending on the circumstances, that may be a sensible design decision.

The use of the 100mA RCD might be because the earthing system is TT and
hence all circuits needed to be RCD protected (even in days before this
was common) to ensure disconnection in the event of an earth fault.

If the pump is in a bathroom, there are quite possibly no other
electrical circuits available near by, and the load from a pump is only
likely to be a few hundred watts - so it will not stretch the supply.
That's the same reason other small loads in bathrooms like extractor
fans or shaver sockets are often fed from a lighting circuit.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/
  #64   Report Post  
Old June 2nd 19, 03:58 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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First recorded activity by DIYBanter: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,077
Default Consumer Units with RCBOs

On Sun, 2 Jun 2019 14:42:19 +0100, John Rumm wrote:

Next door had a shower pump taken from the lighting circuit that is on a
100mA RCD; that was done by a 'qualified' electrician (domestic and
commercial).


Depending on the circumstances, that may be a sensible design decision.

The use of the 100mA RCD might be because the earthing system is TT and
hence all circuits needed to be RCD protected (even in days before this
was common) to ensure disconnection in the event of an earth fault.

It's TN-C-S - updated about 25 years ago.

If the pump is in a bathroom, there are quite possibly no other
electrical circuits available near by, and the load from a pump is only
likely to be a few hundred watts - so it will not stretch the supply.
That's the same reason other small loads in bathrooms like extractor
fans or shaver sockets are often fed from a lighting circuit.


No circuits, but the taps are on copper pipe (mine's all plastic, so no
Earth path) and the bonding's dodgey. My shower is off the 30mA RCD (same
board and basic installation, done at the same time).
Slightly worrying was that the pump was in a housing on the wall, the same
as an electric shower, and the brushes were wearing out resulting in
graphite visible around the joins and control - I don't know how conductive
that would be. Perhaps best not to have the iron bath bonded to earth in
this case.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway
  #65   Report Post  
Old June 2nd 19, 04:02 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
ARW ARW is offline
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First recorded activity by DIYBanter: Aug 2012
Posts: 9,351
Default Consumer Units with RCBOs

On 02/06/2019 14:42, John Rumm wrote:
On 02/06/2019 08:34, PeterC wrote:
On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 17:14:06 +0100, wrote:

On 01/06/2019 13:23, PeterC wrote:
On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 09:15:11 +0100, [email protected] wrote:

On 01/06/2019 08:17, PeterC wrote:
On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 03:24:56 +0100, John Rumm wrote:

On 31/05/2019 15:42, [email protected] wrote:
On 31/05/2019 08:52, PeterC wrote:

Next door had the same problem. He used just steel capping and
RCD so
that
it's all covered by just the plaster. As in my house, some runs
are
not in
Safe Zones - but do go to sockets or switches and are all
vertical or
horizontal. Should be easy to detect - a decent magnet would do
it!


They are in safe zones then as they extended from switches and
sockets
in the vertical and horizontal directions.

Yup, like in the pictures:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...lectric_cables

But some aren't within 150mm of edges.


But you said they were vertical and horizontal not bent.

They are straight but not within 150mm of an edge.


I am a very strong advocate of DIY by competent DIYers but sometimes we
all need to recognise when it is best to "get someone in", perhaps this
is a case when that would be wise. Please don't flame me for making the
suggestion.


These were done by the original electricians.
Next door had a shower pump taken from the lighting circuit that is on a
100mA RCD; that was done by a 'qualified' electrician (domestic and
commercial).


Depending on the circumstances, that may be a sensible design decision.

The use of the 100mA RCD might be because the earthing system is TT and
hence all circuits needed to be RCD protected (even in days before this
was common) to ensure disconnection in the event of an earth fault.

If the pump is in a bathroom, there are quite possibly no other
electrical circuits available near by, and the load from a pump is only
likely to be a few hundred watts - so it will not stretch the supply.
That's the same reason other small loads in bathrooms like extractor
fans or shaver sockets are often fed from a lighting circuit.



Most shower pumps require a 30mA RCD supply.

--
Adam


  #67   Report Post  
Old June 2nd 19, 04:27 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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First recorded activity by DIYBanter: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,220
Default Consumer Units with RCBOs

On Saturday, 1 June 2019 19:40:05 UTC+1, wrote:
I have never seen a vertical and horizontal cable run between
the isolation switch and junction box.....


Mine is vertical - diagonal - vertical.

Installed by the builders, at least it's in conduit.

And at least since I moved in the conduit is now earthed.

Owain



  #68   Report Post  
Old June 2nd 19, 05:33 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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First recorded activity by DIYBanter: Mar 2013
Posts: 148
Default Consumer Units with RCBOs

The diagonal cooker cables I see behind cookers are invariably under plastic capping... And is a single straight diagonal run.

So well done to the builder for using metal conduit and for you in earthing said conduit.....
  #69   Report Post  
Old June 2nd 19, 10:20 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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First recorded activity by DIYBanter: Jul 2006
Posts: 23,287
Default Consumer Units with RCBOs

On 02/06/2019 16:02, ARW wrote:
On 02/06/2019 14:42, John Rumm wrote:
On 02/06/2019 08:34, PeterC wrote:
On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 17:14:06 +0100, wrote:

On 01/06/2019 13:23, PeterC wrote:
On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 09:15:11 +0100, [email protected] wrote:

On 01/06/2019 08:17, PeterC wrote:
On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 03:24:56 +0100, John Rumm wrote:

On 31/05/2019 15:42, [email protected] wrote:
On 31/05/2019 08:52, PeterC wrote:

Next door had the same problem. He used just steel capping and
RCD so
that
it's all covered by just the plaster. As in my house, some
runs are
not in
Safe Zones - but do go to sockets or switches and are all
vertical or
horizontal. Should be easy to detect - a decent magnet would
do it!


They are in safe zones then as they extended from switches and
sockets
in the vertical and horizontal directions.

Yup, like in the pictures:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...lectric_cables

But some aren't within 150mm of edges.


But you said they were vertical and horizontal not bent.

They are straight but not within 150mm of an edge.


I am a very strong advocate of DIY by competent DIYers but sometimes we
all need to recognise when it is best to "get someone in", perhaps this
is a case when that would be wise. Please don't flame me for making the
suggestion.

These were done by the original electricians.
Next door had a shower pump taken from the lighting circuit that is on a
100mA RCD; that was done by a 'qualified' electrician (domestic and
commercial).


Depending on the circumstances, that may be a sensible design decision.

The use of the 100mA RCD might be because the earthing system is TT
and hence all circuits needed to be RCD protected (even in days before
this was common) to ensure disconnection in the event of an earth fault.

If the pump is in a bathroom, there are quite possibly no other
electrical circuits available near by, and the load from a pump is
only likely to be a few hundred watts - so it will not stretch the
supply. That's the same reason other small loads in bathrooms like
extractor fans or shaver sockets are often fed from a lighting circuit.



Most shower pumps require a 30mA RCD supply.


These days yup... a historical install may not have specced it.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/
  #70   Report Post  
Old June 3rd 19, 09:03 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
ARW ARW is offline
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First recorded activity by DIYBanter: Aug 2012
Posts: 9,351
Default Consumer Units with RCBOs

On 02/06/2019 22:20, John Rumm wrote:
On 02/06/2019 16:02, ARW wrote:
On 02/06/2019 14:42, John Rumm wrote:
On 02/06/2019 08:34, PeterC wrote:
On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 17:14:06 +0100, wrote:

On 01/06/2019 13:23, PeterC wrote:
On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 09:15:11 +0100, [email protected] wrote:

On 01/06/2019 08:17, PeterC wrote:
On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 03:24:56 +0100, John Rumm wrote:

On 31/05/2019 15:42, [email protected] wrote:
On 31/05/2019 08:52, PeterC wrote:

Next door had the same problem. He used just steel capping
and RCD so
that
it's all covered by just the plaster. As in my house, some
runs are
not in
Safe Zones - but do go to sockets or switches and are all
vertical or
horizontal. Should be easy to detect - a decent magnet would
do it!


They are in safe zones then as they extended from switches and
sockets
in the vertical and horizontal directions.

Yup, like in the pictures:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...lectric_cables

But some aren't within 150mm of edges.


But you said they were vertical and horizontal not bent.

They are straight but not within 150mm of an edge.


I am a very strong advocate of DIY by competent DIYers but
sometimes we
all need to recognise when it is best to "get someone in", perhaps
this
is a case when that would be wise. Please don't flame me for making
the
suggestion.

These were done by the original electricians.
Next door had a shower pump taken from the lighting circuit that is
on a
100mA RCD; that was done by a 'qualified' electrician (domestic and
commercial).

Depending on the circumstances, that may be a sensible design decision.

The use of the 100mA RCD might be because the earthing system is TT
and hence all circuits needed to be RCD protected (even in days
before this was common) to ensure disconnection in the event of an
earth fault.

If the pump is in a bathroom, there are quite possibly no other
electrical circuits available near by, and the load from a pump is
only likely to be a few hundred watts - so it will not stretch the
supply. That's the same reason other small loads in bathrooms like
extractor fans or shaver sockets are often fed from a lighting circuit.



Most shower pumps require a 30mA RCD supply.


These days yup... a historical install may not have specced it.


And you know my views on using a RCD as protection vs supplementary bonding.





--
Adam


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