My niece has asked me to "fix" her newish Dysaon DC54 which seems to be
suffering from too high a pressure drop across the canister which is
triggering some sort of shut off valve in the motor unit.

It was used to clean up some plaster, whether spilled fresh or sandings
I don't know.

I'll drag a cmpressed air line out and back flush each cyclone I can see
a spout for (42) but if that fails is there a chemical that will
dissolve plaster (calcium sulphate). I don't think brick acid will work
as it is weaker than sulphuric acid that would form the sulphate from chalk.

How soluble is set plaster?

AJH

AJH wrote:
My niece has asked me to "fix" her newish Dysaon DC54 which seems to
be suffering from too high a pressure drop across the canister which
is triggering some sort of shut off valve in the motor unit.

It was used to clean up some plaster, whether spilled fresh or
sandings I don't know.

I'll drag a cmpressed air line out and back flush each cyclone I can
see a spout for (42) but if that fails is there a chemical that will
dissolve plaster (calcium sulphate). I don't think brick acid will
work as it is weaker than sulphuric acid that would form the sulphate from
chalk.
How soluble is set plaster?

AJH

Take the hose off and remove the blockage.

AJH wrote:
My niece has asked me to "fix" her newish Dysaon DC54 which seems to be
suffering from too high a pressure drop across the canister which is
triggering some sort of shut off valve in the motor unit.

It was used to clean up some plaster, whether spilled fresh or sandings
I don't know.

I'll drag a cmpressed air line out and back flush each cyclone I can see
a spout for (42) but if that fails is there a chemical that will
dissolve plaster (calcium sulphate). I don't think brick acid will work
as it is weaker than sulphuric acid that would form the sulphate from chalk.

How soluble is set plaster?

AJH


Plaster will have blocked the filters. Unless youve accidentally sucked up
wet stuff, the cyclones are probably okay.

Wash/replace the filters.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

On 18/04/2019 22:02, Tim+ wrote:


Plaster will have blocked the filters. Unless youve accidentally sucked up
wet stuff, the cyclones are probably okay.

I don't think so as it runs fine without the canister attached and I can
hear the shut off valve operate when I replace the canister with no
hoses attached.

The only filter appears to be a fine stainless steel mesh on the
canister which I have cleaned.

So to re iterate; it seems the machine senses a depression across the
canister and triggers the shut off.

I note Dyson clearly state this device should not be used to suck up
fine dust, plaster, sawdust, soot or flour but too late for that and a
new canister of cyclones is over 70 quid.

AJH

On 18/04/2019 22:02, Tim+ wrote:
AJH wrote:
My niece has asked me to "fix" her newish Dysaon DC54 which seems to be
suffering from too high a pressure drop across the canister which is
triggering some sort of shut off valve in the motor unit.

It was used to clean up some plaster, whether spilled fresh or sandings
I don't know.

I'll drag a cmpressed air line out and back flush each cyclone I can see
a spout for (42) but if that fails is there a chemical that will
dissolve plaster (calcium sulphate). I don't think brick acid will work
as it is weaker than sulphuric acid that would form the sulphate from chalk.

How soluble is set plaster?

AJH


Plaster will have blocked the filters. Unless youve accidentally sucked up
wet stuff, the cyclones are probably okay.

Yes. So much for Dyson's adverts of no filters and no loss of suction!

My experience of a couple of Dysons over the years (at a rental cottage
that we regularly use) has really put me off them. The filters clog
extremely easily (ash spilt when clearing out the stove) and (in the
case of the DC02) even the carboard disks and streamers from party
poppers jamming in the bend entering the body - whereas our Henry takes
plaster dust, ash or even the entire plastic bodies of part poppers in
its stride.

Wash/replace the filters.

Which is fine in this case, but if you are mid-way through vaccing, you
can't carry on until the filter has dried.

SteveW

On 18/04/2019 22:30, AJH wrote:
On 18/04/2019 22:02, Tim+ wrote:


Plaster will have blocked the filters. Unless youve accidentally
sucked up
wet stuff, the cyclones are probably okay.

I don't think so as it runs fine without the canister attached and I can
hear the shut off valve operate when I replace the canister with no
hoses attached.

The only filter appears to be a fine stainless steel mesh on the
canister which I have cleaned.

So to re iterate; it seems the machine senses a depression across the
canister and triggers the shut off.

I note Dyson clearly state this device should not be used to suck up
fine dust, plaster, sawdust, soot or flour but too late for that and a
new canister of cyclones is over 70 quid.

AJH

That is probably because they don't filter the fine stuff out so become
a health hazard if you do suck up fine stuff.. its why they make toner
vacs for cleaning laser printers.

I doubt if fine dust will block the cyclone but there may be other
filters that it does.

Do you have a bottle brush to poke up the holes?

On Thursday, 18 April 2019 21:33:27 UTC+1, AJH wrote:

My niece has asked me to "fix" her newish Dysaon DC54 which seems to be
suffering from too high a pressure drop across the canister which is
triggering some sort of shut off valve in the motor unit.

It was used to clean up some plaster, whether spilled fresh or sandings
I don't know.

I'll drag a cmpressed air line out and back flush each cyclone I can see
a spout for (42) but if that fails is there a chemical that will
dissolve plaster (calcium sulphate). I don't think brick acid will work
as it is weaker than sulphuric acid that would form the sulphate from chalk.

How soluble is set plaster?

AJH

IME if one bit of the system clogs, EVERY point in the system then clogs. So you'll need to clean out brush head, intake hose, cyclone, filter and of course the air output filter too.

What dissolves plaster? Water. Acid might do better, HCl should produce a soluble end product.


NT

On 18/04/2019 23:12, wrote:
HCl should produce a soluble end product

If it were lime plaster I could see this, calcium chloride being soluble
but HCc+CaSO4 gives what that is soluble? H2SO4 is out as a product, it
is a stronger acid than the HCl.



Google only comes up with baking soda leading to precipitation of chalk
which can wash out.

I think I'm just going to have to stick with the compressed air and
patience.

AJH

AJH wrote:

On 18/04/2019 23:12, wrote:
HCl should produce a soluble end product

If it were lime plaster I could see this, calcium chloride being soluble
but HCc+CaSO4 gives what that is soluble? H2SO4 is out as a product, it
is a stronger acid than the HCl.

I'm no chemist but does this not depend on concentration and the HCl
being in excess? Any CaCl2 is washed away so the reaction may proceed
despite CaS04 being more stable. A direct experiment may be in order.



Google only comes up with baking soda leading to precipitation of chalk
which can wash out.

I think I'm just going to have to stick with the compressed air and
patience.

AJH


--

Roger Hayter

On 18/04/2019 22:02, Tim+ wrote:
AJH wrote:
My niece has asked me to "fix" her newish Dysaon DC54 which seems to be
suffering from too high a pressure drop across the canister which is
triggering some sort of shut off valve in the motor unit.

It was used to clean up some plaster, whether spilled fresh or sandings
I don't know.

I'll drag a cmpressed air line out and back flush each cyclone I can see
a spout for (42) but if that fails is there a chemical that will
dissolve plaster (calcium sulphate). I don't think brick acid will work
as it is weaker than sulphuric acid that would form the sulphate from chalk.

How soluble is set plaster?

AJH


Plaster will have blocked the filters. Unless youve accidentally sucked up
wet stuff, the cyclones are probably okay.

Wash/replace the filters.


+1 for filters or if a hose has been used something tuck in the hose. Th

Even if it has set it likely will be a very weak bond on any plastic
surface and can probably be dislodged by prodding with a blunt wooden stick.


--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 18/04/2019 22:48, Steve Walker wrote:
- whereas our Henry takes
plaster dust, ash or even the entire plastic bodies of part poppers in
its stride.


+1
Especially when using their Hepa Flo bags
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Brand-Numat.../dp/B00864CYEC

I had all my widows and doors replaced recently and most rooms ended up
with 100+ years worth of dust/debris when the old frames were removed.
Unfortunately some windows had to be removed during the near gale force
winds the week the installers were here which didn't help matters. My
Henry didn't bat an eyelid sucking up large volumes. Yes, the bags did
start to clog up but only after they were around 50% full and virtually
nothing got through to the filters protecting the motor.


--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

AJH wrote:
On 18/04/2019 22:02, Tim+ wrote:


Plaster will have blocked the filters. Unless youve accidentally sucked up
wet stuff, the cyclones are probably okay.

I don't think so as it runs fine without the canister attached and I can
hear the shut off valve operate when I replace the canister with no
hoses attached.

The only filter appears to be a fine stainless steel mesh on the
canister which I have cleaned.

There is another filter.

https://youtu.be/_QTJTSZ6QNg


So to re iterate; it seems the machine senses a depression across the
canister and triggers the shut off.

Are you *sure* the hose hasnt got a blockage? Dust sticking in the
cyclone will hurt its ability to €œspin out€� dirt but shouldnt
significantly block flow.

Tim



--
Please don't feed the trolls

On 19/04/2019 04:04, alan_m wrote:
On 18/04/2019 22:48, Steve Walker wrote:
Â*- whereas our Henry takes
plaster dust, ash or even the entire plastic bodies of part poppers in
its stride.


+1
Especially when using their Hepa Flo bags
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Brand-Numat.../dp/B00864CYEC


I had all my widows and doors replaced recently and most rooms ended up
with 100+ years worth of dust/debris when the old frames were removed.
Unfortunately some windows had to be removed during the near gale force
winds the week the installers were here which didn't help matters. My
Henry didn't bat an eyelid sucking up large volumes. Yes, the bags did
start to clog up but only after they were around 50% full and virtually
nothing got through to the filters protecting the motor.


+42^42 - when the going gets tough die-soons die. Henry's dont.


--
The New Left are the people they warned you about.

Normally on all these devices its the filters that get clogged, below a
certain airflow, the cyclone will not, erm do what it does and hence it just
overheats trying to make things work as more gunge blocks it up.

I do not know about Dysan, but my Bosch has a new lease of life when I wash
all the filters, and I mean all including the one in the middle of the
cyclone.
I'm afraid I've yet to find aa vacuum immune to this kind of problem. Thank
goodness it was not spilt laser printer toner, that is death to all motors
as its so small it goes through the filters!
Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"AJH" wrote in message
...
My niece has asked me to "fix" her newish Dysaon DC54 which seems to be
suffering from too high a pressure drop across the canister which is
triggering some sort of shut off valve in the motor unit.

It was used to clean up some plaster, whether spilled fresh or sandings I
don't know.

I'll drag a cmpressed air line out and back flush each cyclone I can see a
spout for (42) but if that fails is there a chemical that will dissolve
plaster (calcium sulphate). I don't think brick acid will work as it is
weaker than sulphuric acid that would form the sulphate from chalk.

How soluble is set plaster?

AJH

As I say dismantle it and clean the filters. Everyone should do this
regularly in any case.
Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Mr Pounder Esquire" wrote in message
...
AJH wrote:
My niece has asked me to "fix" her newish Dysaon DC54 which seems to
be suffering from too high a pressure drop across the canister which
is triggering some sort of shut off valve in the motor unit.

It was used to clean up some plaster, whether spilled fresh or
sandings I don't know.

I'll drag a cmpressed air line out and back flush each cyclone I can
see a spout for (42) but if that fails is there a chemical that will
dissolve plaster (calcium sulphate). I don't think brick acid will
work as it is weaker than sulphuric acid that would form the sulphate
from
chalk.
How soluble is set plaster?

AJH

Take the hose off and remove the blockage.

On Fri, 19 Apr 2019 08:11:41 +0100, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

As I say dismantle it and clean the filters. Everyone should do this
regularly in any case.
Brian

I have experienced the same problem after ambitiously trying to remove
a lot of dust from wiring work. I took it to the 'Dyson Shop'
yesterday and he reckons he can clean it out for £18.

On 18/04/2019 22:48, Steve Walker wrote:
whereas our Henry takes plaster dust, ash or even the entire plastic
bodies of part poppers in its stride.

Yes for home I use a Henry with hepa filter bags and discard them
when full, small cost compared with ne price of a Dyson. I have never
been impressed with Dysons.

AJH

On 19/04/2019 07:43, Tim+ wrote:
There is another filter.

https://youtu.be/_QTJTSZ6QNg



Thanks for that, I'll do that as a last resort.

Are you*sure* the hose hasnt got a blockage? Dust sticking in the
cyclone will hurt its ability to €œspin out€� dirt but shouldnt
significantly block flow.

Yes I have put a flexible rod through the lot.

AJH

On 19/04/2019 09:21, AJH wrote:
On 18/04/2019 22:48, Steve Walker wrote:
whereas our Henry takes plaster dust, ash or even the entire plastic
bodies of part poppers in its stride.

Â*Yes for homeÂ* I use a Henry with hepa filter bags and discard them
when full, small cost compared with ne price of a Dyson. I have never
been impressed with Dysons.

AJH

What you really want is a Bosch blue vac like the GAS25.
Industrial rated so run continuously and they have filter bashers to
unclog them without taking the machine apart.

They are also safety rated so can be used for dust that a Henery would
not be suitable for.

On 19/04/2019 08:10, Brian Gaff wrote:
Normally on all these devices its the filters that get clogged, below a
certain airflow, the cyclone will not, erm do what it does and hence it just
overheats trying to make things work as more gunge blocks it up.

I do not know about Dysan, but my Bosch has a new lease of life when I wash
all the filters, and I mean all including the one in the middle of the
cyclone.
I'm afraid I've yet to find aa vacuum immune to this kind of problem. Thank
goodness it was not spilt laser printer toner, that is death to all motors
as its so small it goes through the filters!
Brian


Not all vacs have the motor cooled by the air with the dirt in it.
That's the cheap option.

On 18/04/2019 22:54, dennis@home wrote:

I doubt if fine dust will block the cyclone but there may be other
filters that it does.


Things may well be different for the OPs DC54 but fine powder like
plaster dust can seriously clog the cyclones on our DC08. And I don't
mean raw plaster getting wet and setting. Sucking up lots of brick and
plaster dust after bashing out bits of walls is a sure way to end up
with blockages. I suspect it's some sort of electrostatic effect causing
the fine particles to stick to the cyclone surface. The fluffy powdery
coating on the bores of the cyclones builds up and appears to reduce the
spinning effect on the airflow with the result that much of the fine
dust doesn't get centrifuged out and passes straight through to block
the filter.

After some building work our DC08 got to the state that the filter
needed washing after every use. Completely stripping down and cleaning
the cyclone following the instructions in
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sB7kIL6SGiY restored the performance
back to new condition.

On 18/04/2019 21:33, AJH wrote:
My niece has asked me to "fix" her newish Dysaon DC54 which seems to be
suffering from too high a pressure drop across the canister which is
triggering some sort of shut off valve in the motor unit.

It was used to clean up some plaster, whether spilled fresh or sandings
I don't know.

I'll drag a cmpressed air line out and back flush each cyclone I can see
a spout for (42) but if that fails is there a chemical that will
dissolve plaster (calcium sulphate). I don't think brick acid will work
as it is weaker than sulphuric acid that would form the sulphate from
chalk.

How soluble is set plaster?

AJH

HCl should dissolve CaSO4. It's a matter of solubility, not acid strength.

https://www.enotes.com/homework-help/what-net-ionic-equation-this-caso4-hcl-379680


--
Reentrant

Dyson and Henry are aimed at different users. A Henry is a utility suction
machine - a Dyson is a convenient carpet cleaning tool.

I wonder if Static Electricity is a factor with blocking?

On 19/04/2019 18:18, DerbyBorn wrote:



Dyson and Henry are aimed at different users. A Henry is a utility suction
machine - a Dyson is a convenient carpet cleaning tool.

I wonder if Static Electricity is a factor with blocking?


Henry is a vacuum cleaner.
Dyson is a fashion statement.

On Friday, 19 April 2019 19:18:32 UTC+1, Richard wrote:
On 19/04/2019 18:18, DerbyBorn wrote:



Dyson and Henry are aimed at different users. A Henry is a utility suction
machine - a Dyson is a convenient carpet cleaning tool.

I wonder if Static Electricity is a factor with blocking?


Henry is a vacuum cleaner.
Dyson is a fashion statement.

Partly - they are also vacs that are good in some ways. None are perfect.

So what would be perfect? Maybe a Henry with an added cyclone before the bag filter.


NT

On 19/04/2019 09:23, AJH wrote:
Are you*sure*Â* the hose hasnt got a blockage?Â* Dust sticking in the
cyclone will hurt its ability to €œspin out€� dirt but shouldnt
significantly block flow.

Yes I have put a flexible rod through the lot.

Tim

I blew the cyclones out to back flush them and clouds of fine dust came
out of each of the cyclones I could see. Some of the silicone rubber
nozzles folded inside from the pressure. This enabled the vacuum
cleaner to run without triggering the internal baffle.

When I took the canister off to empty it I noticed a piece of wood had
been sucked into view, I must have missed this when I rodded the final
bent section of tube.

Anyway it is working fine now.

AJH

On 19/04/2019 19:32, wrote:
On Friday, 19 April 2019 19:18:32 UTC+1, Richard wrote:
On 19/04/2019 18:18, DerbyBorn wrote:



Dyson and Henry are aimed at different users. A Henry is a utility suction
machine - a Dyson is a convenient carpet cleaning tool.

I wonder if Static Electricity is a factor with blocking?


Henry is a vacuum cleaner.
Dyson is a fashion statement.

Partly - they are also vacs that are good in some ways. None are perfect.

So what would be perfect? Maybe a Henry with an added cyclone before the bag filter.


NT


I really don't get that into vacuum cleaners. Ours is a Miele cylinder
(not actually cylindrical) cat and dog hair thingy. It sucks, but in a
good way.
For the workshop (shed) I have a Titan - Screwfix wet & dry. It sucks,
in a good way, but very noisy which doesn't matter in the environment
where it's used.

Remember "Hoover beats as it sweeps as it cleans" The beater bar was a
good feature - the brushes on a Dyson do a similar role - I like the way
the carpet pile stands up if the cleaner is drawn backwards in the right
way to lift the pile. Makes the carpet like new!

On Sat, 20 Apr 2019 07:58:22 +0100, Richard
wrote:

snip

I really don't get that into vacuum cleaners.

Nor did I until I was looking for a very quiet one because of my
Tinitus.

Ours is a Miele cylinder
(not actually cylindrical) cat and dog hair thingy. It sucks, but in a
good way.

Yup ... and what we ended up with, thanks to a friendly local
appliance shop and my sound level meter. We generally use it on less
than 'Max' power, simply because it's quieter still on the lower
settings and still works well (demonstrating we don't generally need
3kW cleaners if they are designed properly).

For the workshop (shed) I have a Titan - Screwfix wet & dry. It sucks,
in a good way, but very noisy which doesn't matter in the environment
where it's used.

I have an old Henry down there, have just given a Dyson multi-cyclone
[1] to the charity shop and may do the same with our little used
bought-from-new DC01.

Daughter has (temporarily?) nicked back the Dyson V6 Animal she bought
us a while back (and loves it for it's convenience and
manoeuvrability) and Mum seems happy with her Gtech 2 combo (apart
from at 88 years old she finds pulling the canister off and putting it
back on the handheld bit quite challenging!).

Cheers, T i m

[1] Picked up from Freecycle years ago for my step daughter and it was
being given away because it was 'faulty'. It was actually just blocked
up (everywhere) and a good clean then wash in the batch seemed to fix
it and it carried on working ever since.

On 20/04/2019 10:52, T i m wrote:
On Sat, 20 Apr 2019 07:58:22 +0100, Richard
wrote:

snip

I really don't get that into vacuum cleaners.

Nor did I until I was looking for a very quiet one because of my
Tinitus.

Ours is a Miele cylinder
(not actually cylindrical) cat and dog hair thingy. It sucks, but in a
good way.

Yup ... and what we ended up with, thanks to a friendly local
appliance shop and my sound level meter. We generally use it on less
than 'Max' power, simply because it's quieter still on the lower
settings and still works well (demonstrating we don't generally need
3kW cleaners if they are designed properly).


FWIW I bought a Bosch Arriva (I think) 1400W cylinder hoover from a
charity shop for £4. OK, new filters and bags £15, but a marvellous
thing. Much stronger suction that the Sebo (lifts the carpet), light,
compact, and pretty quiet - especially on the lower settings.


--
Cheers, Rob

T i m wrote in
:

On Sat, 20 Apr 2019 07:58:22 +0100, Richard
wrote:

snip

I really don't get that into vacuum cleaners.

Nor did I until I was looking for a very quiet one because of my
Tinitus.

Ours is a Miele cylinder
(not actually cylindrical) cat and dog hair thingy. It sucks, but in a
good way.

Yup ... and what we ended up with, thanks to a friendly local
appliance shop and my sound level meter. We generally use it on less
than 'Max' power, simply because it's quieter still on the lower
settings and still works well (demonstrating we don't generally need
3kW cleaners if they are designed properly).

For the workshop (shed) I have a Titan - Screwfix wet & dry. It sucks,
in a good way, but very noisy which doesn't matter in the environment
where it's used.

I have an old Henry down there, have just given a Dyson multi-cyclone
[1] to the charity shop and may do the same with our little used
bought-from-new DC01.

Daughter has (temporarily?) nicked back the Dyson V6 Animal she bought
us a while back (and loves it for it's convenience and
manoeuvrability) and Mum seems happy with her Gtech 2 combo (apart
from at 88 years old she finds pulling the canister off and putting it
back on the handheld bit quite challenging!).

Cheers, T i m

[1] Picked up from Freecycle years ago for my step daughter and it was
being given away because it was 'faulty'. It was actually just blocked
up (everywhere) and a good clean then wash in the batch seemed to fix
it and it carried on working ever since.







I sometimes feel inadequate as I have only had one vacuum for the last
20 years. I threw away my Hoover Constellation - why didn't I sell it on
EBay?

On Saturday, 20 April 2019 09:43:10 UTC+1, DerbyBorn wrote:

Remember "Hoover beats as it sweeps as it cleans" The beater bar was a
good feature

it really was, it enabled a 175-300w machine to do a satisfactory job, and cleaned deeper than others.


- the brushes on a Dyson do a similar role

neither of mine do. The Hoover beater bar smacks the whole carpet back down after the suction lifts it up, it's very effective.

- I like the way
the carpet pile stands up if the cleaner is drawn backwards in the right
way to lift the pile. Makes the carpet like new!


NT