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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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#1
Posted to uk.d-i-y,uk.comp.homebuilt
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All your fears about Smart meters confirmed
https://www.hra.nhs.uk/planning-and-...h/application-
summaries/research-summaries/health-monitoring-using-smart-meters/ Also on the front page of the Daily Fail. "Our novel technology assesses an individuals personal physical and mental-health by monitoring their electricity usage at home. This is achieved by processing data collected from smart meters, which captures detailed habits of an individuals interactions with electrical devices. The technology identifies any anomalies in a persons routine, which is the result of a health-related condition. For example, an Alzheimers patient leaving an oven on or person suffering with depression remaining awake at night. This is achieved by employing advanced data analytics, known as machine learning, to understand trends in electricity usage. The system can identify when an individual gets up, goes to bed, eats, their location within the home and a bad nights sleep. Essentially, the technology creates a personalised profile of the users behaviour at home." So spying on you and profiling you through the Smart Meter. Which we were assured would never happen. Next step targeted advertising. Cheers Dave R -- AMD FX-6300 in GA-990X-Gaming SLI-CF running Windows 7 Pro x64 --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus |
#2
Posted to uk.d-i-y,uk.comp.homebuilt
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All your fears about Smart meters confirmed
In article ,
David wrote: Also on the front page of the Daily Fail. "Our novel technology assesses an individuals personal physical and mental-health by monitoring their electricity usage at home. This is achieved by processing data collected from smart meters, which captures detailed habits of an individuals interactions with electrical devices. The technology identifies any anomalies in a persons routine, which is the result of a health-related condition. For example, an Alzheimers patient leaving an oven on And pray tell how a smart meter knows just what has been left on? It could detect an abnormal load in the middle of the night, I suppose. So best to tell it when you have a party. Or do the washing at night. -- *Hard work pays off in the future. Laziness pays off now * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#3
Posted to uk.d-i-y,uk.comp.homebuilt
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All your fears about Smart meters confirmed
On Mon, 04 Feb 2019 18:43:37 +0000, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , David wrote: Also on the front page of the Daily Fail. "Our novel technology assesses an individuals personal physical and mental-health by monitoring their electricity usage at home. This is achieved by processing data collected from smart meters, which captures detailed habits of an individuals interactions with electrical devices. The technology identifies any anomalies in a persons routine, which is the result of a health-related condition. For example, an Alzheimers patient leaving an oven on And pray tell how a smart meter knows just what has been left on? It could detect an abnormal load in the middle of the night, I suppose. So best to tell it when you have a party. Or do the washing at night. Also some people may leave the light on all night, or lie in the dark when depressed. Anyone with random timed lighting when they are on holiday may get their door broken down, of course. I can see all sorts of technical issues, but I'm more concerned that there is a proposal to centrally log and analyse detailed personal data about electricity usage profiles, linked to both the home address and one or more disease diagnoses. Not that these would ever be accessed by anyone but incorruptible trained professionals, of course. Cheers Dave R -- AMD FX-6300 in GA-990X-Gaming SLI-CF running Windows 7 Pro x64 --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus |
#5
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All your fears about Smart meters confirmed
On Monday, 4 February 2019 18:49:59 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , David wrote: Also on the front page of the Daily Fail. "Our novel technology assesses an individuals personal physical and mental-health by monitoring their electricity usage at home. This is achieved by processing data collected from smart meters, which captures detailed habits of an individuals interactions with electrical devices. The technology identifies any anomalies in a persons routine, which is the result of a health-related condition. For example, an Alzheimers patient leaving an oven on And pray tell how a smart meter knows just what has been left on? It could detect an abnormal load in the middle of the night, I suppose. So best to tell it when you have a party. Or do the washing at night. In some ways, that is a major indictment of the idea. That the inferences drawn from the smart meters could very well be substantially or wholly wrong.. It is so very easy for those developing the software to convince themselves that they are correctly interpreting the information. But it is extraordinarily difficult to cater for the huge range on confounding factors. From the trivial, for example regarding things on a time switch as evidence of healthy human activity, to things that are likely far more subtle and difficult to account for. |
#6
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All your fears about Smart meters confirmed
On Mon, 4 Feb 2019 14:13:17 -0800 (PST), polygonum_on_google wrote:
And pray tell how a smart meter knows just what has been left on? It learns. It may no know which particular device has just switched on (or off) but it'll know the history of something of the same load switching on/off. It is so very easy for those developing the software to convince themselves that they are correctly interpreting the information. But it is extraordinarily difficult to cater for the huge range on confounding factors. From the trivial, for example regarding things on a time switch as evidence of healthy human activity, to things that are likely far more subtle and difficult to account for. That's were the learning comes in. Something on a time switch or thermostat going to have a reasonably easy to spot profile. Time switch driven events happen at or very close to the same time, even with a 7 day or 5+2 time switch. Thermostatic events may have a variable time between them but the heating or cooling between the essentailly fixed on/off temperatures is going to be very similar. Programable stats will have time of day element but like a simple time switch not that hard to spot. -- Cheers Dave. |
#7
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All your fears about Smart meters confirmed
On Tuesday, 5 February 2019 00:10:26 UTC, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Mon, 4 Feb 2019 14:13:17 -0800 (PST), polygonum_on_google wrote: And pray tell how a smart meter knows just what has been left on? It learns. It may no know which particular device has just switched on (or off) but it'll know the history of something of the same load switching on/off. It is so very easy for those developing the software to convince themselves that they are correctly interpreting the information. But it is extraordinarily difficult to cater for the huge range on confounding factors. From the trivial, for example regarding things on a time switch as evidence of healthy human activity, to things that are likely far more subtle and difficult to account for. That's were the learning comes in. Something on a time switch or thermostat going to have a reasonably easy to spot profile. Time switch driven events happen at or very close to the same time, even with a 7 day or 5+2 time switch. Thermostatic events may have a variable time between them but the heating or cooling between the essentailly fixed on/off temperatures is going to be very similar. Programable stats will have time of day element but like a simple time switch not that hard to spot. Lights are steady loads of 5-50w typically with low pf. TVs have a varying load pattern that I think is fairly characteristic. Heating has a recognisable pattern Microwaving ditto Hobs & ovens ditto Small appliances I don't know if it would resolve among the other noise Power tools should be fairly easy to spot PIR exterior lights are quite characteristic loads So it probably is possible to work out mostly what's going on if the data is sampled frequently enough. Of course interpretations of that will be riddled with errors. The idea that anyone awake at night is depressed is rather silly. NT |
#8
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All your fears about Smart meters confirmed
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#9
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All your fears about Smart meters confirmed
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#10
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All your fears about Smart meters confirmed
Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Mon, 4 Feb 2019 14:13:17 -0800 (PST), polygonum_on_google wrote: And pray tell how a smart meter knows just what has been left on? It learns. It may no know which particular device has just switched on (or off) but it'll know the history of something of the same load switching on/off. It is so very easy for those developing the software to convince themselves that they are correctly interpreting the information. But it is extraordinarily difficult to cater for the huge range on confounding factors. From the trivial, for example regarding things on a time switch as evidence of healthy human activity, to things that are likely far more subtle and difficult to account for. That's were the learning comes in. Something on a time switch or thermostat going to have a reasonably easy to spot profile. Time switch driven events happen at or very close to the same time, even with a 7 day or 5+2 time switch. Thermostatic events may have a variable time between them but the heating or cooling between the essentailly fixed on/off temperatures is going to be very similar. Programable stats will have time of day element but like a simple time switch not that hard to spot. The only thing we have on a time switch is our immersion heater. There's also an electric door opener (for the chickens!) running from a photocell but that will vary a lot according the the weather as well as the time of year. I doubt if anything else is regular at all as we're quite a large household (4 adults, lots of dogs and cats, etc.) and one of us in particular lives a rather irregulat and 'inside out' sort of timetable. -- Chris Green · |
#11
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All your fears about Smart meters confirmed
It happens that Dave Liquorice formulated :
It learns. It may no know which particular device has just switched on (or off) but it'll know the history of something of the same load switching on/off. I think you are assuming a level of intelligence and processing in the meter, which simply does not exist. |
#12
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All your fears about Smart meters confirmed
Harry Bloomfield wrote:
I think you are assuming a level of intelligence and processing in the meter, which simply does not exist. I think the proposed system would rely on additional analysis done centrally, I agree that even 30 minute data is not much to go on, but over a period of weeks/months it could learn the bones of what's normal for a given house, and across a whole fleet of meters it could adjust for seasonal variations ... so it *might* be able to tell that Mrs Jones' daily variations from "using stuff" on top of the background are no longer happening and maybe she's pegged it! You'd hope that relatives and neighbours would do a better job though, bloke down the road pegged it after christmas, it wasn't the post or milkbottles that came to attention but the wheelie bin left out longer than normal. |
#13
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All your fears about Smart meters confirmed
On Tue, 05 Feb 2019 10:57:50 GMT, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
It learns. It may no know which particular device has just switched on (or off) but it'll know the history of something of the same load switching on/off. I think you are assuming a level of intelligence and processing in the meter, which simply does not exist. Not in the meter but applied to the data the meter sends. -- Cheers Dave. |
#14
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All your fears about Smart meters confirmed
On Monday, 4 February 2019 18:18:21 UTC, David WE Roberts (Google) wrote:
... person suffering with depression remaining awake at night. And a piece in the Metro today about online shopping at night. So now Google will be able to tell you're depressed and encourage you to buy more stuff you don't need. Owain |
#15
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All your fears about Smart meters confirmed
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#16
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All your fears about Smart meters confirmed
"David" wrote in message ... https://www.hra.nhs.uk/planning-and-...h/application- summaries/research-summaries/health-monitoring-using-smart-meters/ Also on the front page of the Daily Fail. "Our novel technology assesses an individual's personal physical and mental-health by monitoring their electricity usage at home. You haven't quoted any context, or who made that claim. And so as such it has no value whatsoever. In fact it sounds like a claim from a software provider touting for business. In fact such technology which isn't particularly novel in itself, might well prove useful in monitoring vulnerable patients who having given their consent to this surveillance are otherwise being left their own devices. The real scare story here isn't Big Brother accumulating even more information on the incredibly boring lives being led of by around 99% of the population, but the fact that such software might be used as a possible justification for reducing actual care in the form of home visits or actual human monitoring at all. Just a money saving exercise in other words. remainder left in to provide context This is achieved by processing data collected from smart meters, which captures detailed habits of an individual's interactions with electrical devices. The technology identifies any anomalies in a person's routine, which is the result of a health-related condition. For example, an Alzheimer's patient leaving an oven on or person suffering with depression remaining awake at night. This is achieved by employing advanced data analytics, known as machine learning, to understand trends in electricity usage. The system can identify when an individual gets up, goes to bed, eats, their location within the home and a bad night's sleep. Essentially, the technology creates a personalised profile of the user's behaviour at home." So spying on you and profiling you through the Smart Meter. Thus fulfilling the abiding fantasy of the tin-foil-hat brigade - that they lead such interesting lives that Big Brother is itching to collect masses of data all about them Some hopes. Which we were assured would never happen. Next step targeted advertising. Er, light bulbs, electrical appliances. Whatever next ? michael adams .... |
#17
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All your fears about Smart meters confirmed
On Monday, 4 February 2019 19:54:30 UTC, michael adams wrote:
"David" wrote in message ... snip So spying on you and profiling you through the Smart Meter. Thus fulfilling the abiding fantasy of the tin-foil-hat brigade - that they lead such interesting lives that Big Brother is itching to collect masses of data all about them Some hopes. Which we were assured would never happen. Next step targeted advertising. Er, light bulbs, electrical appliances. Whatever next ? michael adams ... The first thing that happens when I interact with most companies (other than simply paying for goods at a till) is they go for a data grab, and it normally includes data irrelevant to the business being done. It has nothing to do with interesting lives or crazy people imaginining they're the centre of attention, it has simply become a business norm these days. Data has commercial value and companies are routinely overestimating the value of it & grabbing whatever they can. NT |
#18
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All your fears about Smart meters confirmed
wrote in message ... On Monday, 4 February 2019 19:54:30 UTC, michael adams wrote: "David" wrote in message ... snip So spying on you and profiling you through the Smart Meter. Thus fulfilling the abiding fantasy of the tin-foil-hat brigade - that they lead such interesting lives that Big Brother is itching to collect masses of data all about them Some hopes. Which we were assured would never happen. Next step targeted advertising. Er, light bulbs, electrical appliances. Whatever next ? michael adams ... ~ The first thing that happens when I interact with most companies (other than ~ simply paying for goods at a till) is they go for a data grab, and it normally ~ includes data irrelevant to the business being done. It has nothing to do with ~ interesting lives or crazy people imagining they're the centre of attention, it ~ has simply become a business norm these days. Data has commercial ~ value and companies are routinely overestimating the value of it & grabbing ~ whatever they can. I'm not sure what point you're making here. Every time you make a payment with a credit or debit card you're providing further information to the card company in addition to the masses of data they already hold on you. The profile such data could generate is far more informative than anything that could be gleaned from the smart meter data which seems to be causing such concern. So unless all the tin foil hat brigade also forgo the use of credit cards I fail to see their point. Which isn't to say that advertising targeted at broad groups, say certain age groups rather than at individuals as such, wouldn't be more effective. But that's another issue. Which isn't to say that the "internet of things" is necessarily a good thing. Basically ceding control of any aspect of your life to potential incompetents and/or the purveyors of bull**** unless absolutely necessary is a very bad idea IMO michael adams .... |
#19
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All your fears about Smart meters confirmed
"michael adams" wrote in message o.uk... wrote in message ... On Monday, 4 February 2019 19:54:30 UTC, michael adams wrote: "David" wrote in message ... snip So spying on you and profiling you through the Smart Meter. Thus fulfilling the abiding fantasy of the tin-foil-hat brigade - that they lead such interesting lives that Big Brother is itching to collect masses of data all about them Some hopes. Which we were assured would never happen. Next step targeted advertising. Er, light bulbs, electrical appliances. Whatever next ? michael adams ... ~ The first thing that happens when I interact with most companies (other than ~ simply paying for goods at a till) is they go for a data grab, and it normally ~ includes data irrelevant to the business being done. It has nothing to do with ~ interesting lives or crazy people imagining they're the centre of attention, it ~ has simply become a business norm these days. Data has commercial ~ value and companies are routinely overestimating the value of it & grabbing ~ whatever they can. I'm not sure what point you're making here. Every time you make a payment with a credit or debit card you're providing further information to the card company in addition to the masses of data they already hold on you. The profile such data could generate is far more informative than anything that could be gleaned from the smart meter data which seems to be causing such concern. So unless all the tin foil hat brigade also forgo the use of credit cards I fail to see their point. Which isn't to say that advertising targeted at broad groups, say certain age groups rather than at individuals as such, wouldn't be more effective. But that's another issue. Which isn't to say that the "internet of things" is necessarily a good thing. Basically ceding control of any aspect of your life to potential incompetents and/or the purveyors of bull**** unless absolutely necessary is a very bad idea IMO More fool you when say it keeps track of the barcodes of the packaging you put in the bin, keeps track of what you have bought that way and suggest that you might want some more of that when you go shopping with you free to decide that you dont want any more of that etc. |
#20
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Lonely Psychotic Senile Ozzie Troll Alert! LOL
On Wed, 6 Feb 2019 11:30:36 +1100, cantankerous trolling senile geezer Rot
Speed blabbered, again: More fool you when say it keeps track of the barcodes of the packaging you put in the bin, keeps track of what you have bought that way and suggest that you might want some more of that when you go shopping with you free to decide that you dont want any more of that etc. When did he mention barcodes, you driveling senile ****? -- Richard addressing Rot Speed: "**** you're thick/pathetic excuse for a troll." MID: |
#21
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All your fears about Smart meters confirmed
On Wednesday, 6 February 2019 00:30:47 UTC, Rod Speed wrote:
"michael adams" wrote in message o.uk... wrote in message ... On Monday, 4 February 2019 19:54:30 UTC, michael adams wrote: "David" wrote in message ... snip So spying on you and profiling you through the Smart Meter. Thus fulfilling the abiding fantasy of the tin-foil-hat brigade - that they lead such interesting lives that Big Brother is itching to collect masses of data all about them Some hopes. Which we were assured would never happen. Next step targeted advertising. Er, light bulbs, electrical appliances. Whatever next ? michael adams ... ~ The first thing that happens when I interact with most companies (other than ~ simply paying for goods at a till) is they go for a data grab, and it normally ~ includes data irrelevant to the business being done. It has nothing to do with ~ interesting lives or crazy people imagining they're the centre of attention, it ~ has simply become a business norm these days. Data has commercial ~ value and companies are routinely overestimating the value of it & grabbing ~ whatever they can. I'm not sure what point you're making here. Every time you make a payment with a credit or debit card you're providing further information to the card company in addition to the masses of data they already hold on you. The profile such data could generate is far more informative than anything that could be gleaned from the smart meter data which seems to be causing such concern. So unless all the tin foil hat brigade also forgo the use of credit cards I fail to see their point. Which isn't to say that advertising targeted at broad groups, say certain age groups rather than at individuals as such, wouldn't be more effective. But that's another issue. Which isn't to say that the "internet of things" is necessarily a good thing. Basically ceding control of any aspect of your life to potential incompetents and/or the purveyors of bull**** unless absolutely necessary is a very bad idea IMO More fool you when say it keeps track of the barcodes of the packaging you put in the bin, keeps track of what you have bought that way and suggest that you might want some more of that when you go shopping with you free to decide that you dont want any more of that etc. One thing the police advise is not to just throw your old packaging in the bin recycling or not, as in most cases if you see an empty TV box ready for recycling, chances are that house has just bought a brand new TV. |
#22
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All your fears about Smart meters confirmed
michael adams brought next idea :
In fact it sounds like a claim from a software provider touting for business. In fact such technology which isn't particularly novel in itself, might well prove useful in monitoring vulnerable patients who having given their consent to this surveillance are otherwise being left their own devices. Or an individual chasing a backer. More sensible would be an 'I'm alive' button to push once per day, or a text message to be replied to daily and much more reliable. Why look for a more complex solution which simply would not be nearly so reliable as an indicator? |
#23
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All your fears about Smart meters confirmed
"Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message ... michael adams brought next idea : In fact it sounds like a claim from a software provider touting for business. In fact such technology which isn't particularly novel in itself, might well prove useful in monitoring vulnerable patients who having given their consent to this surveillance are otherwise being left their own devices. Or an individual chasing a backer. More sensible would be an 'I'm alive' button to push once per day, or a text message to be replied to daily and much more reliable. Why look for a more complex solution which simply would not be nearly so reliable as an indicator? Were that the sole reason for supplying a smart meter in a particular location, then that might very well be true. However one of the few undoubted benefits of smart meters to vulnerable customers at least, is that they could also provide an assured supply in the event of planned power cuts or rationing, should this ever prove necessary. michael adams .... |
#24
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All your fears about Smart meters confirmed
michael adams brought next idea :
However one of the few undoubted benefits of smart meters to vulnerable customers at least, is that they could also provide an assured supply in the event of planned power cuts or rationing, should this ever prove necessary. A good point indeed. Much less granular that denying supplies to whole areas during shortages. |
#25
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All your fears about Smart meters confirmed
"Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message ... michael adams brought next idea : In fact it sounds like a claim from a software provider touting for business. In fact such technology which isn't particularly novel in itself, might well prove useful in monitoring vulnerable patients who having given their consent to this surveillance are otherwise being left their own devices. Or an individual chasing a backer. More sensible would be an 'I'm alive' button to push once per day, or a text message to be replied to daily and much more reliable. Why look for a more complex solution Because I would prefer a quicker response if I manage to fall and can't get up due to a broken hip etc or a diabetic coma. which simply would not be nearly so reliable as an indicator? Yes, movement sensors make a lot more sense, particularly if you have those already for the lights. |
#26
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All your fears about Smart meters confirmed
On Wednesday, 6 February 2019 01:21:37 UTC, 2987fr wrote:
"Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message ... michael adams brought next idea : Or an individual chasing a backer. More sensible would be an 'I'm alive' button to push once per day, or a text message to be replied to daily and much more reliable. Why look for a more complex solution Because I would prefer a quicker response if I manage to fall and can't get up due to a broken hip etc or a diabetic coma. which simply would not be nearly so reliable as an indicator? Yes, movement sensors make a lot more sense, particularly if you have those already for the lights. Quicker responding systems cost money & very few are willing to spend on that. Using existing equipment at no added cost could be widely deployed. Not everyone will consent though. NT |
#27
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All your fears about Smart meters confirmed
wrote in message ... On Wednesday, 6 February 2019 01:21:37 UTC, 2987fr wrote: "Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message ... michael adams brought next idea : Or an individual chasing a backer. More sensible would be an 'I'm alive' button to push once per day, or a text message to be replied to daily and much more reliable. Why look for a more complex solution Because I would prefer a quicker response if I manage to fall and can't get up due to a broken hip etc or a diabetic coma. which simply would not be nearly so reliable as an indicator? Yes, movement sensors make a lot more sense, particularly if you have those already for the lights. Quicker responding systems cost money The ones used for lights respond quicker than most. & very few are willing to spend on that. Bull****. Using existing equipment at no added cost could be widely deployed. There will always be an additional costs to poll smart meters often enough to decide if someone is no longer using electricity at the rate they normally do. In spades with sending someone around to see if they have a medical problem or have just changed the way they do things because say an appliance has broken or they have chosen to go out for the day etc. Not everyone will consent though. |
#28
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More Heavy Trolling by Senile Nym-Shifting Rot Speed!
On Wed, 6 Feb 2019 12:21:24 +1100, 2987fr, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rot Speed, wrote: Because I would prefer a quicker response if I manage to fall and can't get up due to a broken hip etc or a diabetic coma. I bet most would prefer NO response AT ALL once that happens to you, you obnoxious senile pest! BG -- Richard addressing Rot Speed: "**** you're thick/pathetic excuse for a troll." MID: |
#29
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All your fears about Smart meters confirmed
On Wednesday, 6 February 2019 01:21:37 UTC, 2987fr wrote:
"Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message ... michael adams brought next idea : In fact it sounds like a claim from a software provider touting for business. In fact such technology which isn't particularly novel in itself, might well prove useful in monitoring vulnerable patients who having given their consent to this surveillance are otherwise being left their own devices. Or an individual chasing a backer. More sensible would be an 'I'm alive' button to push once per day, or a text message to be replied to daily and much more reliable. Why look for a more complex solution Because I would prefer a quicker response if I manage to fall and can't get up due to a broken hip etc or a diabetic coma. which simply would not be nearly so reliable as an indicator? Yes, movement sensors make a lot more sense, particularly if you have those already for the lights. Accelerometers & gyroscopes would be used as it's more than just movement to detect a fall, they use an algorithm in order to work out what the data represents. |
#30
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All your fears about Smart meters confirmed
"whisky-dave" wrote in message ... On Wednesday, 6 February 2019 01:21:37 UTC, 2987fr wrote: "Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message ... michael adams brought next idea : In fact it sounds like a claim from a software provider touting for business. In fact such technology which isn't particularly novel in itself, might well prove useful in monitoring vulnerable patients who having given their consent to this surveillance are otherwise being left their own devices. Or an individual chasing a backer. More sensible would be an 'I'm alive' button to push once per day, or a text message to be replied to daily and much more reliable. Why look for a more complex solution Because I would prefer a quicker response if I manage to fall and can't get up due to a broken hip etc or a diabetic coma. which simply would not be nearly so reliable as an indicator? Yes, movement sensors make a lot more sense, particularly if you have those already for the lights. Accelerometers & gyroscopes would be used Problem is getting the person to wear that all the time. Even in the bath or shower, because that is in fact where they are much more likely to fall. as it's more than just movement to detect a fall, I wasnt taking about using movement to detect a fall, using movement to detect that they havent had a fall. they use an algorithm in order to work out what the data represents. |
#31
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All your fears about Smart meters confirmed
David formulated on Monday :
So spying on you and profiling you through the Smart Meter. Which we were assured would never happen. Next step targeted advertising. It must have been a desperately slow news day, for them have had to make something up like that. Most of what is described is simply impossible for anyone with half clue about them. |
#32
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All your fears about Smart meters confirmed
On Mon, 04 Feb 2019 20:55:11 GMT, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
It must have been a desperately slow news day, for them have had to make something up like that. Most of what is described is simply impossible for anyone with half clue about them. You've not looked at your electricity use profile then. I can see from our logs of electricity consumption, when we go to bed, when we get up, if we are in or out during the day, what time we have our evening meal, how many times the kettle goes on, when the telly goes on, when SWMBO'd has left the iron on. I can't tell where either of us are in the home, but if you're living on your own... I'm a little dubious about how useful or reliable any flags that such a data analaysis might raise are but in general terms "it" will "know". -- Cheers Dave. |
#33
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All your fears about Smart meters confirmed
Dave Liquorice wrote:
Harry Bloomfield wrote: Most of what is described is simply impossible for anyone with half clue about them. You've not looked at your electricity use profile then. That's OK if you have (near) real-time access to your consumption. By default a smart meter only takes a reading once a month, you'd have to actively choose daily or per half-hour readings. |
#34
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All your fears about Smart meters confirmed
Andy Burns wrote:
Dave Liquorice wrote: Harry Bloomfield wrote: Most of what is described is simply impossible for anyone with half clue about them. You've not looked at your electricity use profile then. That's OK if you have (near) real-time access to your consumption. By default a smart meter only takes a reading once a month, you'd have to actively choose daily or per half-hour readings. Surely you'd need a continuous plot to tell you anything even remotely useful (apart from how much to charge that is). -- Chris Green · |
#35
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All your fears about Smart meters confirmed
On 05/02/2019 08:21, Chris Green wrote:
Andy Burns wrote: Dave Liquorice wrote: Harry Bloomfield wrote: Most of what is described is simply impossible for anyone with half clue about them. You've not looked at your electricity use profile then. That's OK if you have (near) real-time access to your consumption. By default a smart meter only takes a reading once a month, you'd have to actively choose daily or per half-hour readings. Surely you'd need a continuous plot to tell you anything even remotely useful (apart from how much to charge that is). Useful for what? This isn't about critical systems - eg an automated landing system for airliners. If the system is used simply to alert health visitors, social workers etc to visit people (or to visit them sooner than they would otherwise) then "false positives" have a financial cost but do not harm anyone. And a SMETS2 meter is technically capable of providing data at intervals much less than 30 minutes. But suppliers aren't allowed to collect data with that granularity - and even 30 mins needs explicit consent from consumers. -- Robin reply-to address is (intended to be) valid |
#36
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All your fears about Smart meters confirmed
Andy Burns submitted this idea :
That's OK if you have (near) real-time access to your consumption. By default a smart meter only takes a reading once a month, you'd have to actively choose daily or per half-hour readings. ...and the 30 minute readings are stored and forwarded in one transmission, so it is still not actual live data. The mobile network could never cope with live data. |
#37
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All your fears about Smart meters confirmed
On Tuesday, 5 February 2019 09:53:43 UTC, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Andy Burns submitted this idea : That's OK if you have (near) real-time access to your consumption. By default a smart meter only takes a reading once a month, you'd have to actively choose daily or per half-hour readings. ..and the 30 minute readings are stored and forwarded in one transmission, so it is still not actual live data. The mobile network could never cope with live data. I daresay it could cope with a small minority of people being closely monitored no problem. |
#38
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All your fears about Smart meters confirmed
I think though that its a benign way to stay independent and not to have to
have a carer visit people who are doing OK. You would opt in of course. I'm not saying that these things cannot be used for bad things, but like all things, they are envisaged as a good thing, helping people be independent and saving money for the service provider. The problem I see is that if this data is the property, of say, Npower, how much will they try to screw out of the NHS to let them have it, I wonder. It could end up like the way the drug companies 'allowed' shortages to occur in the supply chain to drive up prices. Shades of the oil rich nations restricting oil to get more money per barrel. The unacceptable face of capitalism once again. So stop worrying about snooping and start worrying about the corporate fleecing of the state and us. Brian -- ----- -- This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from... The Sofa of Brian Gaff... Blind user, so no pictures please Note this Signature is meaningless.! "David" wrote in message ... https://www.hra.nhs.uk/planning-and-...h/application- summaries/research-summaries/health-monitoring-using-smart-meters/ Also on the front page of the Daily Fail. "Our novel technology assesses an individual's personal physical and mental-health by monitoring their electricity usage at home. This is achieved by processing data collected from smart meters, which captures detailed habits of an individual's interactions with electrical devices. The technology identifies any anomalies in a person's routine, which is the result of a health-related condition. For example, an Alzheimer's patient leaving an oven on or person suffering with depression remaining awake at night. This is achieved by employing advanced data analytics, known as machine learning, to understand trends in electricity usage. The system can identify when an individual gets up, goes to bed, eats, their location within the home and a bad night's sleep. Essentially, the technology creates a personalised profile of the user's behaviour at home." So spying on you and profiling you through the Smart Meter. Which we were assured would never happen. Next step targeted advertising. Cheers Dave R -- AMD FX-6300 in GA-990X-Gaming SLI-CF running Windows 7 Pro x64 --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus |
#39
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All your fears about Smart meters confirmed
David wrote:
https://www.hra.nhs.uk/planning-and-...h/application- summaries/research-summaries/health-monitoring-using-smart-meters/ Also on the front page of the Daily Fail. "Our novel technology assesses an individuals personal physical and mental-health by monitoring their electricity usage at home. This is achieved by processing data collected from smart meters, which captures detailed habits of an individuals interactions with electrical devices. The technology identifies any anomalies in a persons routine, which is the result of a health-related condition. For example, an Alzheimers patient leaving an oven on or person suffering with depression remaining awake at night. This is achieved by employing advanced data analytics, known as machine learning, to understand trends in electricity usage. The system can identify when an individual gets up, goes to bed, eats, their location within the home and a bad nights sleep. Essentially, the technology creates a personalised profile of the users behaviour at home." So spying on you and profiling you through the Smart Meter. Which we were assured would never happen. Next step targeted advertising. Or more sinister, We havent secured enough power for the country, we deem you healthy enough not to need a lot of heating today so are rationed to x kilowatts before we cut you off. If you want to be warm go and do some exercise. I suppose a generator on an exercise bike would let the user charge their phone GH |
#40
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All your fears about Smart meters confirmed
On 04/02/2019 18:18, David wrote:
https://www.hra.nhs.uk/planning-and-...h/application- summaries/research-summaries/health-monitoring-using-smart-meters/ Also on the front page of the Daily Fail. "Our novel technology assesses an individuals personal physical and mental-health by monitoring their electricity usage at home. This is achieved by processing data collected from smart meters, which captures detailed habits of an individuals interactions with electrical devices. The technology identifies any anomalies in a persons routine, which is the result of a health-related condition. For example, an Alzheimers patient leaving an oven on or person suffering with depression remaining awake at night. This is achieved by employing advanced data analytics, known as machine learning, to understand trends in electricity usage. The system can identify when an individual gets up, goes to bed, eats, their location within the home and a bad nights sleep. Essentially, the technology creates a personalised profile of the users behaviour at home." So spying on you and profiling you through the Smart Meter. Which we were assured would never happen. Next step targeted advertising. I'm no fan of Smart meters but their potential use to monitor the elderly / infirm etc seems a very good idea- if it is found to be reliable. As for using the same data to 'spy' on people, even for advertising, I'm less paranoid than some. If EON / Southern Electric want to know that I have a coffee mid morning, dinner around 6pm, the heating is set for xyz etc ....., is it really that invasive? If a total stranger asked if I enjoyed a mid morning coffee, I'd not worry about answering. -- Always smile when walking, you never know where there is a camera ;-) Remarkable Coincidences: The Stock Market Crashes of 1929 and 2008 happened on the same date in October. In Oct 1907, a run on the Knickerbocker Trust Company led to the Great Depression. |
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