If this year is expected to have the biggest increase in CO2 levels due
to El Nino making plants/trees less 'thirsty' for the stuff, then will
the next La Nina year produce a corresponding smaller rise?

Oh you bin listening to the Science hour on world service again?

Brian

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"Andy Burns" wrote in message
...
If this year is expected to have the biggest increase in CO2 levels due to
El Nino making plants/trees less 'thirsty' for the stuff, then will the
next La Nina year produce a corresponding smaller rise?

Andy Burns Wrote in message:
If this year is expected to have the biggest increase in CO2 levels due
to El Nino making plants/trees less 'thirsty' for the stuff, then will
the next La Nina year produce a corresponding smaller rise?



Is this a disguised d.i.y. question?
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

On Fri, 25 Jan 2019 19:46:55 +0000, Andy Burns wrote:

If this year is expected to have the biggest increase in CO2 levels due
to El Nino making plants/trees less 'thirsty' for the stuff, then will
the next La Nina year produce a corresponding smaller rise?

There was another of these "experts" on Radio 4 this evening stating that
after a certain future date not too far off, plants and trees which
currently take in CO2 will start belching it out instead! Quite how this
reverse photosynthesis was supposed to work was omitted. It was just a
bald claim. Unless I missed something (I didn't hear the complete item).
Can anyone who did hear it all clarify this remarkable piece of "science"
please? I'd be intrigued. ;-



--
Leave first - THEN negotiate!

On 26/01/2019 00:46, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Fri, 25 Jan 2019 19:46:55 +0000, Andy Burns wrote:

If this year is expected to have the biggest increase in CO2 levels due
to El Nino making plants/trees less 'thirsty' for the stuff, then will
the next La Nina year produce a corresponding smaller rise?

There was another of these "experts" on Radio 4 this evening stating that
after a certain future date not too far off, plants and trees which
currently take in CO2 will start belching it out instead! Quite how this
reverse photosynthesis was supposed to work was omitted. It was just a
bald claim. Unless I missed something (I didn't hear the complete item).
Can anyone who did hear it all clarify this remarkable piece of "science"
please? I'd be intrigued. ;-



Plants already "belch" it out though "belch" is a bit of an
exaggeration. The key elements of plant biology are respiration,
transpiration and photosynthesis. I learned that at school.

Transpiration is the process of moving water through the cells using
energy created by respiration and respiration is the process of burning
the sugars created by the process of photosynthesis. There's a balance
between the absorption of carbon dioxide for photosynthesis and the
emission of carbon dioxide through respiration which usually works in
the favour of other living things. Likewise the balance between oxygen
created by photosynthesis and that used by respiration. That balance is
dependent on the difference between light and dark and the difference
between daytime and night time temperatures.

Now: what did that programme say?

Nick

On Sat, 26 Jan 2019 06:54:21 +0000, Chris Hogg wrote:

Many decades ago, pre- and post-WW2 it was the norm for vases of flowers
in hospital wards taken in by well-wishers, to be removed from the ward
at night and returned the next morning. This was said to be because the
flowers (i.e. the leaves) gave off oxygen in the daytime but CO2 at
night, the latter being thought to be detrimental to patient recovery in
some way.

Aha! So pollution will cause the orientation in space of our planet to
change, eh? A likely story! :-D



--
Leave first - THEN negotiate!

Chris Hogg wrote:

The resulting graph is herehttps://ibb.co/mDSr3jV The changes in CO2
are the blue symbols; the red line is the El Nino index.

It's difficult to see any correlation between change in CO2 and the
major El Nino events of 1965/66, 1972/73, 1982/83 or 1997/98. Only the
2015/2016 appears to correlate with a higher CO2 increase, and even
then, it's hardly spectacular.

More alarmism?

Quite possibly ... will have to see how their prediction turns out.

Cursitor Doom wrote:

There was another of these "experts" on Radio 4 this evening stating that
after a certain future date not too far off, plants and trees which
currently take in CO2 will start belching it out instead! Quite how this
reverse photosynthesis was supposed to work was omitted.

I thought they had two mechanisms ... one absorbing O2 and emitting CO2
all day long, and another absorbing CO2 and emitting O2 only while
photosynthesising?

"Chris Hogg" wrote in message
...

Many decades ago, pre- and post-WW2 it was the norm for vases of
flowers in hospital wards taken in by well-wishers, to be removed from
the ward at night and returned the next morning. This was said to be
because the flowers (i.e. the leaves) gave off oxygen in the daytime
but CO2 at night, the latter being thought to be detrimental to
patient recovery in some way.

As if it would have made any difference to the level of CO2 in the
wards!

Over a single night there's clearly little or no effect. The
C02 Oxygen balance simply reverses itself back during the day.
However if you consider the cumulative effect over a long period,
on the air composition in the ward then things may be different.
Every night, if removed, any extra oxygen that the flowers made
during the day will stay in the ward so that however long vases
of flowers are kept in the ward the oxygen level in the ward
will increase. Obviously air is exchanged with outside when
doors and windows are opened, but if it's assumed this activity
along with the number of patients and visitors is unchanged.

As oxygen is generally considered beneficial for health
reasons, presumably the reason the practice was actually
abandoned was simply so as to save money by employing fewer
staff. So not only do they no longer have the time to move vases of
flowers around, but in some cases it seems to properly care for
the patients themselves either.

But of course, just as with climate change those who most
stand to profit, big oil, or in this case cost cutting NHS
contractors will do their utmost to undermine and ridicule
the science. Ably abetted, as always, by their willing shills.



michael adams

....

michael adams wrote:

"Chris Hogg" wrote in message
...

Many decades ago, pre- and post-WW2 it was the norm for vases of
flowers in hospital wards taken in by well-wishers, to be removed from
the ward at night and returned the next morning. This was said to be
because the flowers (i.e. the leaves) gave off oxygen in the daytime
but CO2 at night, the latter being thought to be detrimental to
patient recovery in some way.

As if it would have made any difference to the level of CO2 in the
wards!

Over a single night there's clearly little or no effect. The
C02 Oxygen balance simply reverses itself back during the day.
However if you consider the cumulative effect over a long period,
on the air composition in the ward then things may be different.
Every night, if removed, any extra oxygen that the flowers made
during the day will stay in the ward so that however long vases
of flowers are kept in the ward the oxygen level in the ward
will increase. Obviously air is exchanged with outside when
doors and windows are opened, but if it's assumed this activity
along with the number of patients and visitors is unchanged.

As oxygen is generally considered beneficial for health
reasons, presumably the reason the practice was actually
abandoned was simply so as to save money by employing fewer
staff. So not only do they no longer have the time to move vases of
flowers around, but in some cases it seems to properly care for
the patients themselves either.

But of course, just as with climate change those who most
stand to profit, big oil, or in this case cost cutting NHS
contractors will do their utmost to undermine and ridicule
the science. Ably abetted, as always, by their willing shills.



michael adams

I think you have hit on a real conspiracy here. More recently, the
evil corporatist capitalists hit on the idea of putting up extra beds.
Since fairly obviously one extra patient uses several orders of
magnitude more oxygen than all the flowers you could reasonably cram
into a ward could produce, this is even more effective.

Even more sinisterly, big science has now claimed, and got in all the
standard textbooks, that extra oxygen is harmful to some patients. A
conclusion so obviously wrong, and based on painstakingly forged
mortality data, that only the EU could have foisted this on the NHS.


--

Roger Hayter

On Sat, 26 Jan 2019 09:51:26 +0000, Andy Burns wrote:

I thought they had two mechanisms ... one absorbing O2 and emitting CO2
all day long, and another absorbing CO2 and emitting O2 only while
photosynthesising?

I only heard a brief part of this "expert" pontificating and it seems no
one else here heard the item, so I'm none the wiser, I'm afraid.




--
Leave first - THEN negotiate!

In article ,
Nick Odell wrote:
Transpiration is the process of moving water through the cells using
energy created by respiration and respiration is the process of burning
the sugars created by the process of photosynthesis. There's a balance
between the absorption of carbon dioxide for photosynthesis and the
emission of carbon dioxide through respiration which usually works in
the favour of other living things. Likewise the balance between oxygen
created by photosynthesis and that used by respiration. That balance is
dependent on the difference between light and dark and the difference
between daytime and night time temperatures.

Quite - remember why nurses removed flowers etc from wards at night?

Now: what did that programme say?

I'd guess as usual Doom only heard what he wanted to hear.

--
*I wish the buck stopped here. I could use a few.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sat, 26 Jan 2019 09:51:26 +0000, Andy Burns wrote:

I thought they had two mechanisms ... one absorbing O2 and emitting CO2
all day long, and another absorbing CO2 and emitting O2 only while
photosynthesising?

I only heard a brief part of this "expert" pontificating and it seems no
one else here heard the item, so I'm none the wiser, I'm afraid.

Ah - right. But then you only ever listened to Farage about Brexit, so no
change there.

--
*Why is 'abbreviation' such a long word?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Nick Odell wrote:
Transpiration is the process of moving water through the cells using
energy created by respiration and respiration is the process of burning
the sugars created by the process of photosynthesis. There's a balance
between the absorption of carbon dioxide for photosynthesis and the
emission of carbon dioxide through respiration which usually works in
the favour of other living things. Likewise the balance between oxygen
created by photosynthesis and that used by respiration. That balance is
dependent on the difference between light and dark and the difference
between daytime and night time temperatures.

Quite - remember why nurses removed flowers etc from wards at night?

That was an example of a little knowledge, and a total inablity to think
quantitively, being a dangerous thing.





Now: what did that programme say?

I'd guess as usual Doom only heard what he wanted to hear.


--

Roger Hayter

On 26/01/2019 09:47, Andy Burns wrote:
Chris Hogg wrote:

The resulting graph is herehttps://ibb.co/mDSr3jVÂ* The changes in CO2
are the blue symbols; the red line is the El Nino index.

It's difficult to see any correlation between change in CO2 and the
major El Nino events of 1965/66, 1972/73, 1982/83 or 1997/98. Only the
2015/2016 appears to correlate with a higher CO2 increase, and even
then, it's hardly spectacular.

More alarmism?

Quite possibly ... will have to see how their prediction turns out.

Predictions are so seldom checked in the popular media, though. Apart
perhaps from Erlich in 1968:

"The battle to feed all of humanity is over. In the 1970s hundreds of
millions of people will starve to death in spite of any crash programs
embarked upon now. At this late date nothing can prevent a substantial
increase in the world death rate".

On 26/01/2019 15:29, Roger Hayter wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Nick Odell wrote:
Transpiration is the process of moving water through the cells using
energy created by respiration and respiration is the process of burning
the sugars created by the process of photosynthesis. There's a balance
between the absorption of carbon dioxide for photosynthesis and the
emission of carbon dioxide through respiration which usually works in
the favour of other living things. Likewise the balance between oxygen
created by photosynthesis and that used by respiration. That balance is
dependent on the difference between light and dark and the difference
between daytime and night time temperatures.

Quite - remember why nurses removed flowers etc from wards at night?

That was an example of a little knowledge, and a total inablity to think
quantitively, being a dangerous thing.


So nothing new there, then.


--
You can get much farther with a kind word and a gun than you can with a
kind word alone.

Al Capone

On Sat, 26 Jan 2019 17:56:49 +0000, newshound wrote:

Predictions are so seldom checked in the popular media, though.

The plebs have short memories. That's why they can get away with this
succession of endless scare stories that never amount to anything in the
end. Sells "newspapers" though - or what passes for newspapers these days.



--
Leave first - THEN negotiate!

"michael adams" wrote in message
o.uk...

"Chris Hogg" wrote in message
...

Many decades ago, pre- and post-WW2 it was the norm for vases of
flowers in hospital wards taken in by well-wishers, to be removed from
the ward at night and returned the next morning. This was said to be
because the flowers (i.e. the leaves) gave off oxygen in the daytime
but CO2 at night, the latter being thought to be detrimental to
patient recovery in some way.

As if it would have made any difference to the level of CO2 in the
wards!

Over a single night there's clearly little or no effect. The
C02 Oxygen balance simply reverses itself back during the day.
However if you consider the cumulative effect over a long period,
on the air composition in the ward then things may be different.
Every night, if removed, any extra oxygen that the flowers made
during the day will stay in the ward so that however long vases
of flowers are kept in the ward the oxygen level in the ward
will increase. Obviously air is exchanged with outside when
doors and windows are opened, but if it's assumed this activity
along with the number of patients and visitors is unchanged.

And the current fashion for oxygen masks with
many of the patients must have some effect too.

As oxygen is generally considered beneficial for health
reasons, presumably the reason the practice was actually
abandoned was simply so as to save money by employing fewer
staff. So not only do they no longer have the time to move vases of
flowers around, but in some cases it seems to properly care for
the patients themselves either.

But of course, just as with climate change those who most
stand to profit, big oil, or in this case cost cutting NHS
contractors will do their utmost to undermine and ridicule
the science. Ably abetted, as always, by their willing shills.

In article ,
Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sat, 26 Jan 2019 17:56:49 +0000, newshound wrote:

Predictions are so seldom checked in the popular media, though.

The plebs have short memories. That's why they can get away with this
succession of endless scare stories that never amount to anything in the
end. Sells "newspapers" though - or what passes for newspapers these
days.

The scare stories from Turnip etc about war breaking out in Europe due to
the EU? Can't say I've read much about that in the papers. But I'd guess
you and he have some very special ones.

--
*Depression is merely anger without enthusiasm *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 10:47:26 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rot Speed,
the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


And the current fashion for oxygen masks with
many of the patients must have some effect too.

Must it, you endlessly driveling senile Ozzie cretin? G

--
Richard addressing Rot Speed:
"**** you're thick/pathetic excuse for a troll."
MID:

On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 00:16:41 +0000, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

The scare stories from Turnip etc about war breaking out in Europe due
to the EU? Can't say I've read much about that in the papers. But I'd
guess you and he have some very special ones.

Oh but of course. TNP and I have been regular subscribers to Der Stürmer
Since about 1946. :-D

Seriously though, if you have to resort to sly petty insults then you
have already lost the argument.



--
Leave first - THEN negotiate!

In article ,
Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 00:16:41 +0000, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

The scare stories from Turnip etc about war breaking out in Europe due
to the EU? Can't say I've read much about that in the papers. But I'd
guess you and he have some very special ones.

Oh but of course. TNP and I have been regular subscribers to Der Stürmer
Since about 1946. :-D

Seriously though, if you have to resort to sly petty insults then you
have already lost the argument.

Insults? Merely reporting what he and you have posted here.


-

--
*The problem with the world is that everyone is a few drinks behind *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 12:40:50 +0000, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Insults? Merely reporting what he and you have posted here.

If you can't see the way Europe is playing out you must be blind, mate.
You'd have to be daft to believe that there will be no more war in Europe
- have you no idea of European history? Oh, what's the use..


--
Leave first - THEN negotiate!

On Saturday, 26 January 2019 15:01:25 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sat, 26 Jan 2019 09:51:26 +0000, Andy Burns wrote:

I thought they had two mechanisms ... one absorbing O2 and emitting CO2
all day long, and another absorbing CO2 and emitting O2 only while
photosynthesising?

I only heard a brief part of this "expert" pontificating and it seems no
one else here heard the item, so I'm none the wiser, I'm afraid.

Ah - right. But then you only ever listened to Farage about Brexit, so no
change there.

How would Gorbachev suit you then?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...t-has-brought/

On Sunday, 27 January 2019 15:29:44 UTC, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 12:40:50 +0000, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Insults? Merely reporting what he and you have posted here.

If you can't see the way Europe is playing out you must be blind, mate.
You'd have to be daft to believe that there will be no more war in Europe
- have you no idea of European history? Oh, what's the use..


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...t-has-brought/

On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 09:08:26 -0800, harry wrote:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...-not-preserve-
peace-in-europe--instead-it-has-brought/

Nice find, m8! Totally apropos under the current circumstances:

"Now we see the results. Across Europe the vaunted European project is
crumbling before our eyes. Fuelled by the mass unemployment and social
dislocation caused by the disastrous Euro experiment, far from peace and
order, extremist parties are on the rise across the EU from Greece to
Sweden, and from France to Austria. Even in Germany, as a direct response
to the tidal tsunami of migration decreed by Frau Merkel, the
increasingly extreme AfD is piling on the votes."

Pity Plowman & Co. don't have the neural processing power to understand
the above - or anything else in the article.




--
Leave first - THEN negotiate!

In article ,
Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 09:08:26 -0800, harry wrote:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...-not-preserve-
peace-in-europe--instead-it-has-brought/

Nice find, m8! Totally apropos under the current circumstances:

"Now we see the results. Across Europe the vaunted European project is
crumbling before our eyes. Fuelled by the mass unemployment and social
dislocation caused by the disastrous Euro experiment, far from peace and
order, extremist parties are on the rise across the EU from Greece to
Sweden, and from France to Austria. Even in Germany, as a direct response
to the tidal tsunami of migration decreed by Frau Merkel, the
increasingly extreme AfD is piling on the votes."

Pity Plowman & Co. don't have the neural processing power to understand
the above - or anything else in the article.

but then, The Torygraph doesn't ever presenta politically balanced view of
the world. And to think it used to be my daily newspaper. Which of us has
changed?

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

"harry" wrote in message
...
On Saturday, 26 January 2019 15:01:25 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sat, 26 Jan 2019 09:51:26 +0000, Andy Burns wrote:

I thought they had two mechanisms ... one absorbing O2 and emitting
CO2
all day long, and another absorbing CO2 and emitting O2 only while
photosynthesising?

I only heard a brief part of this "expert" pontificating and it seems
no
one else here heard the item, so I'm none the wiser, I'm afraid.

Ah - right. But then you only ever listened to Farage about Brexit, so no
change there.

How would Gorbachev suit you then?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...t-has-brought/

Thats a different issue to peace amongst the countrys that are in the EU.

In message , charles
writes
In article ,
Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 09:08:26 -0800, harry wrote:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...-not-preserve-
peace-in-europe--instead-it-has-brought/

Nice find, m8! Totally apropos under the current circumstances:

"Now we see the results. Across Europe the vaunted European project is
crumbling before our eyes. Fuelled by the mass unemployment and social
dislocation caused by the disastrous Euro experiment, far from peace and
order, extremist parties are on the rise across the EU from Greece to
Sweden, and from France to Austria. Even in Germany, as a direct response
to the tidal tsunami of migration decreed by Frau Merkel, the
increasingly extreme AfD is piling on the votes."

Pity Plowman & Co. don't have the neural processing power to understand
the above - or anything else in the article.

but then, The Torygraph doesn't ever presenta politically balanced view of
the world. And to think it used to be my daily newspaper. Which of us has
changed?

Mine 2. Do you think this policy shift has come from the owners?


--
Tim Lamb

On 27/01/2019 18:30, charles wrote:
but then, The Torygraph doesn't ever presenta politically balanced view of
the world. And to think it used to be my daily newspaper. Which of us has
changed?

Show me one ne3wspaper that does.

It's *all* lies and propaganda. Or at best, selective reporting.


--
There is nothing a fleet of dispatchable nuclear power plants cannot do
that cannot be done worse and more expensively and with higher carbon
emissions and more adverse environmental impact by adding intermittent
renewable energy.

In article ,
Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 12:40:50 +0000, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Insults? Merely reporting what he and you have posted here.

If you can't see the way Europe is playing out you must be blind, mate.

Ah - the certainty of a blinkered Brexiteer. Proved wrong about so many
things they predicted - but still groping around in the dark.

You'd have to be daft to believe that there will be no more war in
Europe - have you no idea of European history? Oh, what's the use..

As I said, no EU is far more likely to end up in war. But then that's what
you seem to want.

--
*Sticks and stones may break my bones but whips and chains excite me*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.