Seems there's more to it than has been discussed on here
The Great Smart Meter Swindle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYPwrbpAHbk


NT

On 24/12/2018 11:12, wrote:
Seems there's more to it than has been discussed on here
The Great Smart Meter Swindle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYPwrbpAHbk


NT

True or false?

On 24/12/2018 11:44, Broadback wrote:
On 24/12/2018 11:12, wrote:
Seems there's more to it than has been discussed on here
The Great Smart Meter Swindle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYPwrbpAHbk


NT

True or false?

Well he doesn't know what he is talking about in the first third of the
video, I got bored after that.

I expect harry will think its all true.

On 12/24/2018 12:12 PM, wrote:
Seems there's more to it than has been discussed on here
The Great Smart Meter Swindle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYPwrbpAHbk


NT

plz choose a different video hoster.

It said:
`Your browser does not recognize any of the video formats blablabla. `

Putting the title in the search bar and clicking on the link did not make it
work this time. (It does sometimes)

On 24/12/2018 11:12, wrote:
Seems there's more to it than has been discussed on here
The Great Smart Meter Swindle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYPwrbpAHbk



Someone more or less forced me to skim that some time ago. Why would
you take seriously someone who propagates "An attacker who controls the
meter also controls its software, allowing them to literally blow the
meter up"?



--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

After serious thinking Broadback wrote :
On 24/12/2018 11:12, wrote:
Seems there's more to it than has been discussed on here
The Great Smart Meter Swindle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYPwrbpAHbk


NT

True or false?

In the video, he talks an absolute load of ********.

dennis@home formulated on Monday :
Well he doesn't know what he is talking about in the first third of the
video, I got bored after that.

I expect harry will think its all true.

It might convince some, but just to point out one glaring error amongst
many - TV's on standby using as much as when turned on. My 49" TV when
uses around 67W, it has two options for standby, one uses 1w, the other
around 0.25W. The difference? The time it takes to boot up when turned
on 2 seconds - it leaves the processor running, or 0.5seconds. I use
the low power standby, I can wait.

wrote in message
...
Seems there's more to it than has been discussed on here
The Great Smart Meter Swindle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYPwrbpAHbk


NT

I just signed up to a deal with Scottish gas for a year and It says I MUST
contact them within three months to arrange a smart gas and lecy meter to be
installed......can they keep me to that ? .......

On Monday, 24 December 2018 11:44:10 UTC, Broadback wrote:
On 24/12/2018 11:12, tabbypurr wrote:

Seems there's more to it than has been discussed on here
The Great Smart Meter Swindle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYPwrbpAHbk


NT

True or false?

Claims made:

suppliers claiming people are legally obliged to install: no idea

they're a scam: pretty much

bullying tactics: don't know

no extra cost lie: of course.

claim they end estimated bills but don't: true enough

faulty readings: it would be strange if didn't happen. The only real question is how often, by what amount, and how traceable. I have no hard data on that, but can certainly say that magnetic discs are vastly more reliable than any electronic or computerised system I've ever encountered.

Higher peak charge tariffs: I don't know of any that but I've not looked. But it's inevitable that will be the result at some point, and it's only doable with smart meters installed.

can remote disconnect: yes they can

switches on sockets save £: yes they do.

appliances on standby have high nrg use: no, it was once true for many set top boxes, not now. There are things it's true of, but not normally.

privacy questions: sure

can tell which tv program you watch? I doubt it, but can't be 100% sure.

data can be used to detmine what you do: to some extent

data can tell when unoccupied: yes

they're hackable: that's inevitable

hackers can switch them off/on repeatedly: sure

- can cause fires: yes, by repeated switch arcing leading to failure.

- can cause explosions: I don't see how it could

smart meter has power over all smart devices: only to turn them off! Nothing else.

hackers can explode meter: no, but could burn it out by rapid repeated switching

virus vulnerability: what computerised system isn't?

adn such virus can attack your smart appliances: no

security vulnerability: for sure. In a military or political conflict situation the ability of a foreign actor to remotely disrupt production & spoil food is a security issue. Given the history of malaware so far it seems almost inevitable that some hackers will find out how to do it & do so at some point.

they are a health issue: no.

claims that they a there are such claims, albeit unlikely.

radiation: radio waves radiate and they give off radio waves. Not nuclear or ionising radiation - harmless.

they're a fire risk: yes. They include a mov direct across the input with no fuse. They contain a switch, these are a known fire risk. They're plastic cased. Etc etc. There are significantly more fire risk factors in them than disc type meters.

we pay they benefit: I don't have the facts on that point. Would you expect it to be any other way?

data mining: inevitable

eliminate meter reading: it reduces the number of properties manually read, not eliminates them

data selling: inevitable

can have it removed: dunno

suppliers uninsured for health liability: no idea. Wouldn't surprise me since the evidence is not convincing. OTOH if there's an industry opoprtunity there are always 'experts' ready to exploit it.

they're no extra cost: of course there is.

can double your bills: no. If higher peak costs are introduced one day it's not impossible in exceptional cases.

we're not given choice re having & paying for em: true. Our only option at new meter time is to have one with its smartness switched off.


NT

On Mon, 24 Dec 2018 13:25:36 +0000, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:

wrote in message
...
Seems there's more to it than has been discussed on here The Great
Smart Meter Swindle https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYPwrbpAHbk


NT

I just signed up to a deal with Scottish gas for a year and It says I
MUST contact them within three months to arrange a smart gas and lecy
meter to be installed......can they keep me to that ? .......

Check your contract.



--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

Broadback wrote:

wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYPwrbpAHbk

True or false?

The bit about it not being compulsory is correct, almost all of his
other points are part truths vastly exaggerated for his scaremongering!

Johann Klammer wrote:

Your browser does not recognize any of the video formats blablabla

I suggest if your browser can't play youtube videos, it must be steam
powered.

In message , "dennis@home"
writes
On 24/12/2018 11:44, Broadback wrote:
On 24/12/2018 11:12, wrote:
Seems there's more to it than has been discussed on here
The Great Smart Meter Swindle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYPwrbpAHbk


NT

True or false?

Well he doesn't know what he is talking about in the first third of the
video, I got bored after that.

I expect harry will think its all true.

I think that most of the first third is essentially true - but
thereafter he seems to have had a severe attack of paranoia, and quite a
lot of what he says sounds like totally fantasy.
--
Ian

Andy Burns wrote:
Johann Klammer wrote:

Your browser does not recognize any of the video formats blablabla

I suggest if your browser can't play youtube videos, it must be steam
powered.


I think youll find that sock puppets like to bitch about things.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

On Monday, 24 December 2018 11:44:10 UTC, Broadback wrote:
On 24/12/2018 11:12, wrote:
Seems there's more to it than has been discussed on here
The Great Smart Meter Swindle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYPwrbpAHbk


NT

True or false?

At least half of it is bollix.Especially the bit that the smart meter can tell what you're watching on TV.

Seems there's more to it than has been discussed on here
The Great Smart Meter Swindle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYPwrbpAHbk


NT

The guy is a typical conspiracy theorist.

There's a sprinkling of truth to give himself credibility but it's
largly ********, and he omits some facts that would strengthen his
case like how electricity smart-meters could penalise you for
presenting a load with poor power-factor.

I speak as someone who is anti smart meter, and will not have them in
my house unless and until it's a legal requirment.

--
Graham.

%Profound_observation%

On Monday, 24 December 2018 14:53:41 UTC, Graham. wrote:
Seems there's more to it than has been discussed on here
The Great Smart Meter Swindle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYPwrbpAHbk


NT

The guy is a typical conspiracy theorist.

There's a sprinkling of truth to give himself credibility but it's
largly ********, and he omits some facts that would strengthen his
case like how electricity smart-meters could penalise you for
presenting a load with poor power-factor.

I speak as someone who is anti smart meter, and will not have them in
my house unless and until it's a legal requirment.

--
Graham.

%Profound_observation%

Re power factor Bollix.
If you ran your vacuum cleaner and nothing else, your power factor would be very poor.

In domestic situations, VAr is negligible.
Most inductive loads have PF correction, eg fluorescent tubes.

On Mon, 24 Dec 2018 14:53:39 +0000, Graham. wrote:

I speak as someone who is anti smart meter, and will not have them in my
house unless and until it's a legal requirment.

I'll keep saying this: any device with "smart" in the name is only smart
for the person selling or supplying it. And that applies *whatever* the
product is. I've yet to see an exception to the rule.



--
This message may be freely reproduced without limit or charge only via
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protocols, whether for profit or not, is conditional upon a charge of
GBP10.00 per reproduction. Publication in this manner via non-Usenet
protocols constitutes acceptance of this condition.

On Mon, 24 Dec 2018 13:25:36 -0000, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:

wrote in message
...
Seems there's more to it than has been discussed on here
The Great Smart Meter Swindle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYPwrbpAHbk


NT

I just signed up to a deal with Scottish gas for a year and It says I MUST
contact them within three months to arrange a smart gas and lecy meter to be
installed......can they keep me to that ? .......

In my place it'd be fun - I have to go upstairs to use the cellphone on 2G.
The meter is 18" above ground level and nicely screened by trees and railway
bank.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

Jim GM4DHJ ... pretended :
I just signed up to a deal with Scottish gas for a year and It says I MUST
contact them within three months to arrange a smart gas and lecy meter to be
installed......can they keep me to that ? .......

Absolutely not, they are entirely optional. They can require you to
have a new meter installed, but it is your decision as to whether it is
Smart or not Smart.

wrote

Seems there's more to it than has been discussed on here
The Great Smart Meter Swindle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYPwrbpAHbk

That is flagrantly dishonest.

There is no automatic charging more for electricity
used in peak times for starters and the claim that
most devices use almost as much power in standby
mode as when in normal use is a bare faced lie.

I didnt bother to listen to the rest of his lies after those two.

"Jim GM4DHJ ..." wrote in message
news

wrote in message
...
Seems there's more to it than has been discussed on here
The Great Smart Meter Swindle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYPwrbpAHbk

I just signed up to a deal with Scottish gas for a year and It says I MUST
contact them within three months to arrange a smart gas and lecy meter to
be installed......can they keep me to that ? .......

Nope.

"Bob Eager" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 24 Dec 2018 13:25:36 +0000, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:

wrote in message
...
Seems there's more to it than has been discussed on here The Great
Smart Meter Swindle https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYPwrbpAHbk


NT

I just signed up to a deal with Scottish gas for a year and It says I
MUST contact them within three months to arrange a smart gas and lecy
meter to be installed......can they keep me to that ? .......

Check your contract.

Just because its in the contract doesnt mean that its legally enforceable.

"Ian Jackson" wrote in message
...
In message , "dennis@home"
writes
On 24/12/2018 11:44, Broadback wrote:
On 24/12/2018 11:12, wrote:
Seems there's more to it than has been discussed on here
The Great Smart Meter Swindle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYPwrbpAHbk


NT

True or false?

Well he doesn't know what he is talking about in the first third of the
video, I got bored after that.

I expect harry will think its all true.

I think that most of the first third is essentially true - but thereafter
he seems to have had a severe attack of paranoia, and quite a lot of what
he says sounds like totally fantasy.

The only thing that is actually true is that you
arent legally required to have a smart meter.

While superficially the claim that the smartmeter
is free is a lie, its more complicated than he claims
because the supplier wont have to pay for as
many physical meter readers.

On 24/12/2018 18:20, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Jim GM4DHJ ... pretended :
I just signed up to a deal with Scottish gas for a year and It says I
MUST contact them within three months to arrange a smart gas and lecy
meter to be installed......can they keep me to that ? .......

Absolutely not, they are entirely optional. They can require you to have
a new meter installed, but it is your decision as to whether it is Smart
or not Smart.

True _unless_ you sign a contract for a deal which requires you to have
a smart meter. The law of contract doesn't have a general let-out for
smart meters.

Of course breach of contract is an option. They'd possibly just charge
their standard tariff instead.



--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 24/12/2018 16:20, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Mon, 24 Dec 2018 14:53:39 +0000, Graham. wrote:

I speak as someone who is anti smart meter, and will not have them in my
house unless and until it's a legal requirment.

I'll keep saying this: any device with "smart" in the name is only smart
for the person selling or supplying it. And that applies *whatever* the
product is. I've yet to see an exception to the rule.




What's your problem with Smar****er (TM)?

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

"Cursitor Doom" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 24 Dec 2018 14:53:39 +0000, Graham. wrote:

I speak as someone who is anti smart meter, and will not have them in my
house unless and until it's a legal requirment.

I'll keep saying this: any device with "smart" in the name is only smart
for the person selling or supplying it. And that applies *whatever* the
product is. I've yet to see an exception to the rule.

Thats silly with smartphones alone.

"Rod Speed" Wrote in message:
wrote Seems there's more to it than has been discussed on here The Great Smart Meter Swindle https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYPwrbpAHbkThat is flagrantly dishonest.There is no automatic charging more for electricityused in peak times for starters and the claim thatmost devices use almost as much power in standbymode as when in normal use is a bare faced lie.I didn?t bother to listen to the rest of his lies after those two.

The RF gives everyone cancer and the meter knows which TV channel
you are watching amongst other gems.
--
%Profound_observation%


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

On Monday, 24 December 2018 19:47:35 UTC, Graham. wrote:

The RF gives everyone cancer and the meter knows which TV channel
you are watching amongst other gems.

Well. A meter could help determine which TV channel you are watching
by recording short-term variations in mains current. For many types of
display the supply current will depend on the picture brightness
and if a few minutes of data is obtained at a "reasonable" sampling
rate there might just be enough information there.
However, I don't for a moment believe that this is actually done.
It would be much easier to intercept the data that your smart TV
sends back to the manufacturer about your viewing habits.
John

On Mon, 24 Dec 2018 19:04:53 +0000, Robin wrote:

What's your problem with Smar****er (TM)?

Far cheaper generic alternatives. Hell, you can make your own, equally
effective, with kitchen cabinet additives.



--
This message may be freely reproduced without limit or charge only via
the Usenet protocol. Reproduction in whole or part through other
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protocols constitutes acceptance of this condition.

On Tue, 25 Dec 2018 06:18:11 +1100, 87213 wrote:

"Cursitor Doom" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 24 Dec 2018 14:53:39 +0000, Graham. wrote:

I speak as someone who is anti smart meter, and will not have them in
my house unless and until it's a legal requirment.

I'll keep saying this: any device with "smart" in the name is only
smart for the person selling or supplying it. And that applies
*whatever* the product is. I've yet to see an exception to the rule.

Thats silly with smartphones alone.

Hey, no problem if you don't mind being spied on 24/7. Be my guest; go
nuts. Make sure you pay over a thousand pounds for the handset, though,
just to be certain you get the *full* experience of being played for a
mug.



--
This message may be freely reproduced without limit or charge only via
the Usenet protocol. Reproduction in whole or part through other
protocols, whether for profit or not, is conditional upon a charge of
GBP10.00 per reproduction. Publication in this manner via non-Usenet
protocols constitutes acceptance of this condition.

On 24/12/2018 18:51, Rod Speed wrote:


"Ian Jackson" wrote in message
...
In message , "dennis@home"
writes
On 24/12/2018 11:44, Broadback wrote:
On 24/12/2018 11:12, wrote:
Seems there's more to it than has been discussed on here
The Great Smart Meter Swindle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYPwrbpAHbk


NT

True or false?

Well he doesn't know what he is talking about in the first third of
the video, I got bored after that.

I expect harry will think its all true.

I think that most of the first third is essentially true - but
thereafter he seems to have had a severe attack of paranoia, and quite
a lot of what he says sounds like totally fantasy.

The only thing that is actually true is that you
arent legally required to have a smart meter.

While superficially the claim that the smartmeter
is free is a lie, its more complicated than he claims
because the supplier wont have to pay for as
many physical meter readers.

Smart meters clearly cost more to make and they have quite high
operating costs because of their use of mobile networks.

Those that have them should pay for the extra cost.

--
Michael Chare

"Cursitor Doom" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 25 Dec 2018 06:18:11 +1100, 87213 wrote:

"Cursitor Doom" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 24 Dec 2018 14:53:39 +0000, Graham. wrote:

I speak as someone who is anti smart meter, and will not have them in
my house unless and until it's a legal requirment.

I'll keep saying this: any device with "smart" in the name is only
smart for the person selling or supplying it. And that applies
*whatever* the product is. I've yet to see an exception to the rule.

Thats silly with smartphones alone.

Hey, no problem if you don't mind being spied on 24/7.

Mine doesnt spy on me 24/7.

Be my guest; go
nuts. Make sure you pay over a thousand pounds for the handset, though,
just to be certain you get the *full* experience of being played for a
mug.

Haven't spent anything like that.

"Michael Chare" wrote in message
news
On 24/12/2018 18:51, Rod Speed wrote:


"Ian Jackson" wrote in message
...
In message , "dennis@home"
writes
On 24/12/2018 11:44, Broadback wrote:
On 24/12/2018 11:12, wrote:
Seems there's more to it than has been discussed on here
The Great Smart Meter Swindle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYPwrbpAHbk


NT

True or false?

Well he doesn't know what he is talking about in the first third of the
video, I got bored after that.

I expect harry will think its all true.

I think that most of the first third is essentially true - but
thereafter he seems to have had a severe attack of paranoia, and quite a
lot of what he says sounds like totally fantasy.

The only thing that is actually true is that you
arent legally required to have a smart meter.

While superficially the claim that the smartmeter
is free is a lie, its more complicated than he claims
because the supplier wont have to pay for as
many physical meter readers.

Smart meters clearly cost more to make

Thats arguable, it would be interesting to see the facts.

and they have quite high operating costs because of their use of mobile
networks.

But save the cost of having someone
show up to read the stupid meters.

Those that have them should pay for the extra cost.

You haven't established that there is an extra cost.

On 25/12/2018 00:52, Cursors Doom wrote:
On Mon, 24 Dec 2018 19:04:53 +0000, Robin wrote:

What's your problem with Smar****er (TM)?

Far cheaper generic alternatives. Hell, you can make your own, equally
effective, with kitchen cabinet additives.



Can you name an alternative with (a) millions of unique codes; (b) that
police can and do look for and use to trace the owner; (c) with "brand
recognition" to deter thieves?

NB it's a good example of where technical expertise (the chemistry to
make millions of unique codes that stick) ain't enough. It's also about
a business strategy - in this case to build a large enough database of
users that it's worthwhile for the police to install the kit; and
publicity so thieves - and dealers - are deterred.

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 25/12/2018 01:31, Michael Chare wrote:

Smart meters clearly cost more to make and they have quite high
operating costs because of their use of mobile networks.

It's a good idea poorly implemented. Smart meters use GSM networks to
communicate back to the providers. That's great apart from the fact that
the mobile network providers (in the UK) wish to switch of their old GSM
(2G) networks and move everyone to 3G/4G. They are forced to pay
spectrum access fees and are run for profit hence they want the
government to pay if they have to maintain GSM networks against their
business wishes.

Someone will pay and it wont be the mobile network and it wont be the
government.

The single overriding reason not to have a Smart Meter is the remote
switch off feature. The energy companies have shown they are incapable
of running accurate billing systems in so many cases that it is
inevitable they will make a balls up and remotely disconnect someone for
their billing mistakes. Or worse, remotely disconnect the wrong meter
through error even when they do have the everything else correct.

The energy providers claim this wont happen. Of course everyone has 100%
confidence in them based on their performances to date.

In message , Graham.
writes
"Rod Speed" Wrote in message:
wrote Seems there's more to it than has been
discussed on here The Great Smart Meter Swindle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYPwrbpAHbkThat is flagrantly
dishonest.There is no automatic charging more for electricityused in
peak times for starters and the claim thatmost devices use almost as
much power in standbymode as when in normal use is a bare faced lie.I
didn?t bother to listen to the rest of his lies after those two.

The RF gives everyone cancer and the meter knows which TV channel
you are watching amongst other gems.

The RF possibly CAN give you cancer - but as the meter only phones home
a few brief times each day, then for it to pose a danger, you're home's
probably got a megawatt feed and, to handle the peak power, a very large
meter.
--
Ian

Ian Jackson explained :
The RF possibly CAN give you cancer - but as the meter only phones home a few
brief times each day, then for it to pose a danger, you're home's probably
got a megawatt feed and, to handle the peak power, a very large meter.

Once a day, at most, with a regular 30 minute reading at most. Some
only phone home once a month, once every three months at the customers
request. What makes you think a higher capacity meter, might be more at
risk / might need to use higher power to phone home?

On Tue, 25 Dec 2018 13:45:42 +1100, 87213 wrote:

Mine doesnt spy on me 24/7.

Perhaps not. But there are, we know, other people who are. Maybe you
don't lead an interesting enough life!



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protocols constitutes acceptance of this condition.

On Tue, 25 Dec 2018 11:51:19 +0000, Ian Jackson wrote:

The RF possibly CAN give you cancer

Is there some *particular* region of the EM spectrum to which you refer?
Because I can tell you without a doubt that to say "RF CAN give you
cancer" is a bit like saying "all Eastern Europeans are thieving ****s."
It's just way too much of a generalisation.




--
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