In message , Cursitor Doom
writes
On Tue, 25 Dec 2018 11:51:19 +0000, Ian Jackson wrote:

The RF possibly CAN give you cancer

Is there some *particular* region of the EM spectrum to which you refer?
Because I can tell you without a doubt that to say "RF CAN give you
cancer" is a bit like saying "all Eastern Europeans are thieving ****s."
It's just way too much of a generalisation.

No. It's a bit like saying
"Some Eastern Europeans are thieving ****s."
or
"All Eastern Europeans may be thieving ****s."

As I'm sure you know perfectly well, it's at the higher frequencies
where the body is capable of absorbing more RF power. That's why we have
'microwave' ovens and not 'longwave' ovens. The most likely effect is
that you get cooked from within - and continual, repetitious, subliminal
internal parboiling is not likely to do your cell structure much good,
Such damage can increase the likelihood of the repair process starting
to fail to work correctly.
http://preview.tinyurl.com/y97xlaf3




--
Ian

On 25/12/2018 10:30, mm0fmf wrote:
On 25/12/2018 01:31, Michael Chare wrote:

Smart meters clearly cost more to make and they have quite high
operating costs because of their use of mobile networks.

It's a good idea poorly implemented. Smart meters use GSM networks to
communicate back to the providers. That's great apart from the fact that
the mobile network providers (in the UK) wish to switch of their old GSM
(2G) networks and move everyone to 3G/4G. They are forced to pay
spectrum access fees and are run for profit hence they want the
government to pay if they have to maintain GSM networks against their
business wishes.

Someone will pay and it wont be the mobile network and it wont be the
government.

The single overriding reason not to have a Smart Meter is the remote
switch off feature. The energy companies have shown they are incapable
of running accurate billing systems in so many cases that it is
inevitable they will make a balls up and remotely disconnect someone for
their billing mistakes. Or worse, remotely disconnect the wrong meter
through error even when they do have the everything else correct.

The energy providers claim this wont happen. Of course everyone has 100%
confidence in them based on their performances to date.


I also don't want to possibly have to pay more to cook an evening meal,
nor would I want anyone to be able to work out when a property is
unoccupied. One of the government's mistakes was to make the energy
companies responsible for installing the meters. They of couse chose
meters which would only work if they remained the supplier.


--
Michael Chare

On Tue, 25 Dec 2018 16:02:00 +0000, Ian Jackson wrote:

No. It's a bit like saying "Some Eastern Europeans are thieving ****s."
or "All Eastern Europeans may be thieving ****s."

Good analogy. I can see where you're *attempting* to come from here.

As I'm sure you know perfectly well, it's at the higher frequencies
where the body is capable of absorbing more RF power. That's why we have
'microwave' ovens and not 'longwave' ovens. The most likely effect is
that you get cooked from within - and continual, repetitious, subliminal
internal parboiling is not likely to do your cell structure much good,
Such damage can increase the likelihood of the repair process starting
to fail to work correctly.

Well, you are of course correct to say that it's the higher frequencies
which constitute the greater danger. But the heating effect from EM
radiation is in itself not carcinogenic. In order to damage DNA and
precipitate mutations which could prove cancerous you really need to
bombard the constituents of the double helix macromolecule with radiation
such that it is no longer able to 'instruct' the amino acids, proteins
and whatnot to replicate in a regulated way. Heat alone won't do this (as
you yourself said.)



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"Cursitor Doom" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 25 Dec 2018 13:45:42 +1100, 87213 wrote:

Mine doesnt spy on me 24/7.

Perhaps not.

Absolutely certainly not.

But there are, we know, other people who are.

Only those with android smartphones.

Maybe you
don't lead an interesting enough life!

The reason is that it isnt possible to do that with an iphone.

On Wed, 26 Dec 2018 04:47:24 +1100, 87213 wrote:

The reason is that it isnt possible to do that with an iphone.

I think you're kidding yourself.



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Michael Chare explained :
On 25/12/2018 10:30, mm0fmf wrote:
On 25/12/2018 01:31, Michael Chare wrote:

Smart meters clearly cost more to make and they have quite high
operating costs because of their use of mobile networks.

It's a good idea poorly implemented. Smart meters use GSM networks to
communicate back to the providers. That's great apart from the fact that
the mobile network providers (in the UK) wish to switch of their old GSM
(2G) networks and move everyone to 3G/4G. They are forced to pay spectrum
access fees and are run for profit hence they want the government to pay if
they have to maintain GSM networks against their business wishes.

Someone will pay and it wont be the mobile network and it wont be the
government.

The single overriding reason not to have a Smart Meter is the remote switch
off feature. The energy companies have shown they are incapable of running
accurate billing systems in so many cases that it is inevitable they will
make a balls up and remotely disconnect someone for their billing mistakes.
Or worse, remotely disconnect the wrong meter through error even when they
do have the everything else correct.

The energy providers claim this wont happen. Of course everyone has 100%
confidence in them based on their performances to date.


I also don't want to possibly have to pay more to cook an evening meal, nor
would I want anyone to be able to work out when a property is unoccupied.
One of the government's mistakes was to make the energy companies responsible
for installing the meters. They of couse chose meters which would only work
if they remained the supplier.

They do continue to work as meter, but not Smart Meters. The suppliers
suggest they are due to to be all compatible in around March 2019, but
don't hold your breath.

"Cursitor Doom" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 26 Dec 2018 04:47:24 +1100, 87213 wrote:

The reason is that it isnt possible to do that with an iphone.

I think you're kidding yourself.

I know I am not. Apple doesnt track iphones 24/7 and there
is no way for any app to do that without your permission.
Apple even encrypts the data that moves over the mobile
phone network when using the apple map app so that
it isn't even possible for anyone to track you 24/7 that
way and apple doesnt sell your location to anyone.

On 25/12/2018 18:29, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Michael Chare explained :
On 25/12/2018 10:30, mm0fmf wrote:
On 25/12/2018 01:31, Michael Chare wrote:

Smart meters clearly cost more to make and they have quite high
operating costs because of their use of mobile networks.

It's a good idea poorly implemented. Smart meters use GSM networks to
communicate back to the providers. That's great apart from the fact
that the mobile network providers (in the UK) wish to switch of their
old GSM (2G) networks and move everyone to 3G/4G. They are forced to
pay spectrum access fees and are run for profit hence they want the
government to pay if they have to maintain GSM networks against their
business wishes.

Someone will pay and it wont be the mobile network and it wont be the
government.

The single overriding reason not to have a Smart Meter is the remote
switch off feature. The energy companies have shown they are
incapable of running accurate billing systems in so many cases that
it is inevitable they will make a balls up and remotely disconnect
someone for their billing mistakes. Or worse, remotely disconnect the
wrong meter through error even when they do have the everything else
correct.

The energy providers claim this wont happen. Of course everyone has
100% confidence in them based on their performances to date.


I also don't want to possibly have to pay more to cook an evening
meal, nor would I want anyone to be able to work out when a property
is unoccupied. One of the government's mistakes was to make the energy
companies responsible for installing the meters. They of couse chose
meters which would only work if they remained the supplier.

They do continue to work as meter, but not Smart Meters. The suppliers
suggest they are due to to be all compatible in around March 2019, but
don't hold your breath.

Yes, they are called Smets 2

--
Michael Chare

Michael Chare laid this down on his screen :
Yes, they are called Smets 2

They suggest the present meters will likely be upgradeable to SMETS 2.

"Bob Eager" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 24 Dec 2018 13:25:36 +0000, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:

wrote in message
...
Seems there's more to it than has been discussed on here The Great
Smart Meter Swindle https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYPwrbpAHbk


NT

I just signed up to a deal with Scottish gas for a year and It says I
MUST contact them within three months to arrange a smart gas and lecy
meter to be installed......can they keep me to that ? .......

Check your contract.


that is what it says ....only said I was eligible in the sales guff .......

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...


"Bob Eager" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 24 Dec 2018 13:25:36 +0000, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:

wrote in message
...
Seems there's more to it than has been discussed on here The Great
Smart Meter Swindle https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYPwrbpAHbk


NT

I just signed up to a deal with Scottish gas for a year and It says I
MUST contact them within three months to arrange a smart gas and lecy
meter to be installed......can they keep me to that ? .......

Check your contract.

Just because its in the contract doesn't mean that its legally
enforceable.

I'm with you...stuff them.....

"Jim GM4DHJ ..." wrote in message
news

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...


"Bob Eager" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 24 Dec 2018 13:25:36 +0000, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:

wrote in message
...
Seems there's more to it than has been discussed on here The Great
Smart Meter Swindle https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYPwrbpAHbk


NT

I just signed up to a deal with Scottish gas for a year and It says I
MUST contact them within three months to arrange a smart gas and lecy
meter to be installed......can they keep me to that ? .......

Check your contract.

Just because its in the contract doesn't mean that its legally
enforceable.

I'm with you...stuff them.....

I guess if it’s a time of day tariff that it would be legally enforceable.

On 24/12/2018 18:48, Rod Speed wrote:

Just because its in the contract doesnt mean that its legally enforceable.

I believe these year long contracts say that you automatically go on to
a higher price tariff for, say, 9 months if you don't arrange for a
smart meter to be installed within 3 months.


--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 25/12/2018 18:05, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Wed, 26 Dec 2018 04:47:24 +1100, 87213 wrote:

The reason is that it isnt possible to do that with an iphone.

I think you're kidding yourself.


Just someone that has fallen for the marketing.


--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

"alan_m" wrote in message
...
On 25/12/2018 18:05, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Wed, 26 Dec 2018 04:47:24 +1100, 87213 wrote:

The reason is that it isnt possible to do that with an iphone.

I think you're kidding yourself.


Just someone that has fallen for the marketing.

Nope, someone who knows how the phone is done
and knows that it isn't possible to monitor me 24/7
unless I give the app permission to do that.

On Wed, 26 Dec 2018 08:05:56 +1100, 87213 wrote:

Nope, someone who knows how the phone is done and knows that it isn't
possible to monitor me 24/7 unless I give the app permission to do that.

Who said anything about apps?



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"Cursitor Doom" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 26 Dec 2018 08:05:56 +1100, 87213 wrote:

Nope, someone who knows how the phone is done and knows that it isn't
possible to monitor me 24/7 unless I give the app permission to do that.

Who said anything about apps?

iphones dont monitor you 24/7.

On Wed, 26 Dec 2018 09:52:28 +1100, 87213 wrote:

iphones dont monitor you 24/7.

That's good to hear. Sleep well, then.
;-



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This message may be freely reproduced without limit or charge only via
the Usenet protocol. Reproduction in whole or part through other
protocols, whether for profit or not, is conditional upon a charge of
GBP10.00 per reproduction. Publication in this manner via non-Usenet
protocols constitutes acceptance of this condition.

On 24/12/2018 12:49, Johann Klammer wrote:
On 12/24/2018 12:12 PM, wrote:
Seems there's more to it than has been discussed on here
The Great Smart Meter Swindle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYPwrbpAHbk


NT

plz choose a different video hoster.


You tube?

It said:
`Your browser does not recognize any of the video formats blablabla. `


???? try shockwave flash plugin




--
There is nothing a fleet of dispatchable nuclear power plants cannot do
that cannot be done worse and more expensively and with higher carbon
emissions and more adverse environmental impact by adding intermittent
renewable energy.

On 25/12/2018 16:02, Ian Jackson wrote:
In message , Cursitor Doom
writes
On Tue, 25 Dec 2018 11:51:19 +0000, Ian Jackson wrote:

The RF possibly CAN give you cancer

Is there some *particular* region of the EM spectrum to which you refer?
Because I can tell you without a doubt that to say "RF CAN give you
cancer" is a bit like saying "all Eastern Europeans are thieving ****s."
It's just way too much of a generalisation.

No. It's a bit like saying
"Some Eastern Europeans are thieving ****s."
or
"All Eastern Europeans may be thieving ****s."

As I'm sure you know perfectly well, it's at the higher frequencies
where the body is capable of absorbing more RF power. That's why we have
'microwave' ovens and not 'longwave' ovens. The most likely effect is
that you get cooked from within - and continual, repetitious, subliminal
internal parboiling is not likely to do your cell structure much good,
Such damage can increase the likelihood of the repair process starting
to fail to work correctly.
http://preview.tinyurl.com/y97xlaf3


Howver cooking does not casue cancer and the power of most RF devices is
very very small indeed

You should be far morw worried about a smart phone slung down near
your genitals with a head set.

Or eating bananas.







--
Karl Marx said religion is the opium of the people.
But Marxism is the crack cocaine.

On Tuesday, 25 December 2018 23:09:34 UTC, Cursitor Doom wrote:
iphones dont monitor you 24/7.
That's good to hear. Sleep well, then.

They don't monitor you when you're sleeping.

How do they know you're sleeping?

They monitor you.

Owain

In message ,
writes

They don't monitor you when you're sleeping.

How do they know you're sleeping?

They see you when you're sleeping

They know when you're awake

They monitor you.

They knows if you've been bad or good

So be good for goodness sake
--
Graeme

On 24/12/2018 12:51, Robin wrote:
On 24/12/2018 11:12, wrote:
Seems there's more to it than has been discussed on here
The Great Smart Meter Swindle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYPwrbpAHbk

Someone more or less forced me to skim that some time ago.Â* Why would
you take seriously someone who propagates "An attacker who controls the
meter also controls its software, allowing them to literally blow the
meter up"?

That is rather funny. What the dodgy smart meters do permit is for a
sufficiently advanced adversary to thrash controllable load on and off
the national grid in very large chunks sufficient to cause blackpouts
and possibly damage generating equipment and trip out circuit breakers.
The present generation are too weakly encrypted to be considered safe
(but it is a threat to the infrastructure not the homeowner).

All the people I know where the installation droid has turned up to
install a smart meter have not had one installed because there was no
mobile phone signal to take the readings away. Odd that they don't check
for network coverage before sending someone out to install them!

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 24/12/2018 13:06, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
dennis@home formulated on Monday :
Well he doesn't know what he is talking about in the first third of
the video, I got bored after that.

I expect harry will think its all true.

It might convince some, but just to point out one glaring error amongst
many - TV's on standby using as much as when turned on. My 49" TV when

Some from the crossover generation when TDTV decoders and main power was
left on continuously by default so that any connected recorder could use
the output. There is a way to disable this behaviour hidden deep in the
setup menu of older sets and it was more like 20W in decoder running
standby vs 70W with the display lit and driven. The default setting
though was quite power hungry when in standby.

uses around 67W, it has two options for standby, one uses 1w, the other
around 0.25W. The difference? The time it takes to boot up when turned
on 2 seconds - it leaves the processor running, or 0.5seconds. I use the
low power standby, I can wait.

Most modern kit has standby consumption that is well 1W. Many of the
CPUs still tick over or wait for intterrupts in standby to allow it to
respond to buttons and obviously the remote control receiever has to be
powered.

The other less obvious one is some computer sound systems really do
consume as much power when "off" as they do when "on". They are best put
on a smart peripheral switch off device so that when the PC is off they
are physically disconnected from the mains.

Knowing your base load is a useful contribution to saving power on an
annual basis since every 10W wasted continuously amounts to around 1kWh
every four days or 90kWh per year (approx £12 pa at current prices).

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

Martin Brown wrote:

Odd that they don't check for network coverage before sending someone
out to install them!

They did ask me.

Have any smart meters *actually* been hacked?

On 26/12/2018 10:19, Martin Brown wrote:
On 24/12/2018 12:51, Robin wrote:
On 24/12/2018 11:12, wrote:
Seems there's more to it than has been discussed on here
The Great Smart Meter Swindle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYPwrbpAHbk

Someone more or less forced me to skim that some time ago.Â* Why would
you take seriously someone who propagates "An attacker who controls
the meter also controls its software, allowing them to literally blow
the meter up"?

That is rather funny. What the dodgy smart meters do permit is for a
sufficiently advanced adversary to thrash controllable load on and off
the national grid in very large chunks sufficient to cause blackpouts
and possibly damage generating equipment and trip out circuit breakers.
The present generation are too weakly encrypted to be considered safe
(but it is a threat to the infrastructure not the homeowner).

All the people I know where the installation droid has turned up to
install a smart meter have not had one installed because there was no
mobile phone signal to take the readings away. Odd that they don't check
for network coverage before sending someone out to install them!

My last domicile, they kept pushing smart meters on me. I told them
there was no signal 'OK we will take you off the database' They didnt.

--
"And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch".

Gospel of St. Mathew 15:14

wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, 25 December 2018 23:09:34 UTC, Cursitor Doom wrote:
iphones dont monitor you 24/7.
That's good to hear. Sleep well, then.

They don't monitor you when you're sleeping.

How do they know you're sleeping?

They dont.

They monitor you.

Not unless you tell the iphone to do that.

Martin Brown used his keyboard to write :
The other less obvious one is some computer sound systems really do consume
as much power when "off" as they do when "on". They are best put on a smart
peripheral switch off device so that when the PC is off they are physically
disconnected from the mains.

I used one of those on desktop PC, to switch all of its peripherals off
when the PC goes off. I also had one on the TV, to switch off its
sound-bar and a sat system. As sat is now built in to the new TV, I
have removed the sat system.


Knowing your base load is a useful contribution to saving power on an annual
basis since every 10W wasted continuously amounts to around 1kWh every four
days or 90kWh per year (approx £12 pa at current prices).

I agree, but I likely still have a large base load than I would like,
which would be difficult to improve upon without causing inconvenience.
LAN routers, time clocks, occupation switches, fridge and fridge/
freezer.

I once worked for a company, which put money and effort into trying to
reduce its base load. The company had many thousands of printers
scattered around its many offices. Some energy advice external company
had come up with the bright idea to issue and install thousands of plug
in timers, so the printers were powered down outside normal office
hours.

The scheme had several gotchas - Staff sometimes needed to work and use
the printers out of hours, hence there was much fiddling with the
time-clocks when print was needed, by less than savvy staff who
initally assumed their printers had gone faulty.

A power cut would also often cause chaos, when an office full of
printer would then suddenly fail to work at all. All of the printers
were modern anyway and modern printers if unused for while, go into a
very low power standby mode. The standby mode consumed less than the
time clocks and when the clocks switched on, the printers would waste
power initialising and running the heaters.

Martin Brown wrote:

Knowing your base load is a useful contribution to saving power on an
annual basis since every 10W wasted continuously amounts to around 1kWh
every four days or 90kWh per year (approx £12 pa at current prices).

My 'easy to remember' figure is that a 1W load costs about £1/year if
left on continuously. OK, probably a bit more now (as you say above)
but it's a pretty good 'ball park' figure to work out whether a new
lower power device of some sort is going to pay for itself.

--
Chris Green
·

On 26/12/2018 10:27, Andy Burns wrote:
Martin Brown wrote:

Odd that they don't check for network coverage before sending someone
out to install them!

They did ask me.

Have any smart meters *actually* been hacked?

AFAIK only by academic researchers but the fact that they can quite
simply be hacked means that they will be. Hot tubs are apparently
another target with serious load potential and near zero security.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-46674706

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 26/12/2018 10:19, Martin Brown wrote:

Most modern kit has standby consumption that is well 1W. Many of the
CPUs still tick over or wait for intterrupts in standby to allow it to
respond to buttons and obviously the remote control receiever has to be
powered.

You have to "blame" that on the EU who set limits on standby power for
various items.

On Tuesday, 25 December 2018 16:02:14 UTC, Ian Jackson wrote:
In message , Cursitor Doom
writes
On Tue, 25 Dec 2018 11:51:19 +0000, Ian Jackson wrote:

The RF possibly CAN give you cancer

Is there some *particular* region of the EM spectrum to which you refer?
Because I can tell you without a doubt that to say "RF CAN give you
cancer" is a bit like saying "all Eastern Europeans are thieving ****s."
It's just way too much of a generalisation.

No. It's a bit like saying
"Some Eastern Europeans are thieving ****s."
or
"All Eastern Europeans may be thieving ****s."

As I'm sure you know perfectly well, it's at the higher frequencies
where the body is capable of absorbing more RF power. That's why we have
'microwave' ovens and not 'longwave' ovens. The most likely effect is
that you get cooked from within - and continual, repetitious, subliminal
internal parboiling is not likely to do your cell structure much good,
Such damage can increase the likelihood of the repair process starting
to fail to work correctly.
http://preview.tinyurl.com/y97xlaf3

lol parboiling. The effect is thermal, and too miniscule to have any chance of being harmful.


NT

On 25/12/2018 01:31, Michael Chare wrote:

Smart meters clearly cost more to make and they have quite high
operating costs because of their use of mobile networks.

Do you want to produce figures that show the difference in cost for
smart meters and sending a meter reader around.


Those that have them should pay for the extra cost.


You want to pay more for having a meter reader come around then?

On Tuesday, 25 December 2018 21:06:08 UTC, 87213 wrote:
"alan_m" wrote in message
...
On 25/12/2018 18:05, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Wed, 26 Dec 2018 04:47:24 +1100, 87213 wrote:

The reason is that it isnt possible to do that with an iphone.

I think you're kidding yourself.


Just someone that has fallen for the marketing.

Nope, someone who knows how the phone is done
and knows that it isn't possible to monitor me 24/7
unless I give the app permission to do that.

lol, the spooks have now been told.
From the start there were requirements for mobile phones to permit government access to data. It has nothing to do with any visible apps or user permissions.

On 25/12/2018 16:02, Ian Jackson wrote:
In message , Cursitor Doom
writes
On Tue, 25 Dec 2018 11:51:19 +0000, Ian Jackson wrote:

The RF possibly CAN give you cancer

Is there some *particular* region of the EM spectrum to which you refer?
Because I can tell you without a doubt that to say "RF CAN give you
cancer" is a bit like saying "all Eastern Europeans are thieving ****s."
It's just way too much of a generalisation.

No. It's a bit like saying
"Some Eastern Europeans are thieving ****s."
or
"All Eastern Europeans may be thieving ****s."

As I'm sure you know perfectly well, it's at the higher frequencies
where the body is capable of absorbing more RF power. That's why we have
'microwave' ovens and not 'longwave' ovens. The most likely effect is
that you get cooked from within - and continual, repetitious, subliminal
internal parboiling is not likely to do your cell structure much good,
Such damage can increase the likelihood of the repair process starting
to fail to work correctly.
http://preview.tinyurl.com/y97xlaf3

But even microwaves don't give you cancer.
Ionising radiation does but that's well up the spectrum and starts
around UV light.

Do you think sitting next to a 60w tungsten lamp will give you cancer?

On 26/12/2018 13:18, dennis@home wrote:
On 25/12/2018 01:31, Michael Chare wrote:

Smart meters clearly cost more to make and they have quite high
operating costs because of their use of mobile networks.

Do you want to produce figures that show the difference in cost for
smart meters and sending a meter reader around.


Those that have them should pay for the extra cost.


You want to pay more for having a meter reader come around then?

You want to put meter readers out of work then?

In message ,
writes
On Tuesday, 25 December 2018 16:02:14 UTC, Ian Jackson wrote:
In message , Cursitor Doom
writes
On Tue, 25 Dec 2018 11:51:19 +0000, Ian Jackson wrote:

The RF possibly CAN give you cancer

Is there some *particular* region of the EM spectrum to which you refer?
Because I can tell you without a doubt that to say "RF CAN give you
cancer" is a bit like saying "all Eastern Europeans are thieving ****s."
It's just way too much of a generalisation.

No. It's a bit like saying
"Some Eastern Europeans are thieving ****s."
or
"All Eastern Europeans may be thieving ****s."

As I'm sure you know perfectly well, it's at the higher frequencies
where the body is capable of absorbing more RF power. That's why we have
'microwave' ovens and not 'longwave' ovens. The most likely effect is
that you get cooked from within - and continual, repetitious, subliminal
internal parboiling is not likely to do your cell structure much good,
Such damage can increase the likelihood of the repair process starting
to fail to work correctly.
http://preview.tinyurl.com/y97xlaf3

lol parboiling. The effect is thermal, and too miniscule to have any
chance of being harmful.

It wouldn't be 'minuscule' if the meter was transmitting at the
multi-kilowatt level - but as I said, you'd need a beefed-up power feed
to the house, and the meter itself would be rather large.
--
Ian

Martin Brown wrote:

Hot tubs are apparently another target

I read that one as the hackers having to be within wifi distance, rather
than anywhere on the internet?

On 12/26/2018 09:41 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

???? try shockwave flash plugin




It is installed.

The `enable flash` bar doesn't even show up(Iceweasel) anymore. They
(youtube/google) seem to have switched completely to broken HTML5 now.

On 26/12/2018 15:19, Johann Klammer wrote:
On 12/26/2018 09:41 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

???? try shockwave flash plugin




It is installed.

The `enable flash` bar doesn't even show up(Iceweasel) anymore. They
(youtube/google) seem to have switched completely to broken HTML5 now.



Try a different browser.
Works here ihn Firefox, Opera & Chrome.