cf leader in Daily Mail

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...CMP=GTUK_email

fred wrote:

cf leader in Daily Mail

They have a new'ish editor, even the rabidly left-wing James O'Brien
seems to like the Mail now.

On Wed, 24 Oct 2018 00:26:56 -0700 (PDT), fred
wrote:

cf leader in Daily Mail

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...CMP=GTUK_email

The tide hasn't turned because as far as Brexit was concerned it was
only ever slack water up a creek.

So, the DM has turned, I wonder if the fanatic Brexiteer worms will
next?

All the sensible people on both sides and those in the middle are all
still watching and waiting and if the only deal that gets offered is a
bad one or nothing, we should be given the option to chose on those
outcomes (or remaining) as it would then be pretty obvious to most
that it would be a bad thing for most people.

Then all the fanatic Brexiteers can f-off to their own 'New Little
England' somewhere as they obviously wouldn't want medical treatment
from a fully trained Eastern European nurse or doctor and wouldn't
want to wait whist we trained one up from outside the EU and wouldn't
want to be cared for in a Care Home by an EU worker either (so we need
to reserve the places for those who are appreciative of such people).

Cheers, T i m

fred posted
cf leader in Daily Mail

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...guardian-view-
on-the-daily-mail-and-brexit-a-very-public-shift

A classic case of a comment piece that destroys its own argument. "The
easy explanation for this shift would be to attribute it to the new
editor, Geordie Greig, who replaced Paul Dacre last month after a
26-year reign. That is a big factor. But the deeper reason is that the
national mood is changing. "

No it isn't. The explanation is that the Mail has a new editor.

--
Jack

On Wednesday, October 24, 2018 at 11:30:38 AM UTC+1, Handsome Jack wrote:
fred posted
cf leader in Daily Mail

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...guardian-view-
on-the-daily-mail-and-brexit-a-very-public-shift

A classic case of a comment piece that destroys its own argument. "The
easy explanation for this shift would be to attribute it to the new
editor, Geordie Greig, who replaced Paul Dacre last month after a
26-year reign. That is a big factor. But the deeper reason is that the
national mood is changing. "

No it isn't. The explanation is that the Mail has a new editor.

--
Jack

and you know this how ?

On Wed, 24 Oct 2018 03:37:51 -0700 (PDT), fred
wrote:

On Wednesday, October 24, 2018 at 11:30:38 AM UTC+1, Handsome Jack wrote:
fred posted
cf leader in Daily Mail

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...guardian-view-
on-the-daily-mail-and-brexit-a-very-public-shift

A classic case of a comment piece that destroys its own argument. "The
easy explanation for this shift would be to attribute it to the new
editor, Geordie Greig, who replaced Paul Dacre last month after a
26-year reign. That is a big factor. But the deeper reason is that the
national mood is changing. "

No it isn't. The explanation is that the Mail has a new editor.

--
Jack

and you know this how ?

A crystal ball, like all the other fanatic Brexiteer hopes and dreams.

We are currently in what looks like could be the first two years of
what could be a much longer cooling off period ... where the
electorate have a right to decide what they actually asked them to
look into from the poll.

If it doesn't look like it will be better for 'most people', then our
government has a constitutional right to make sure we don't do it ...
not stumble on blindly into the abyss, just because (a subset of)
1/3rd of the electorate happened to put a X in a box after being fed a
diet of lies and BS.

The *promise* was that the grass would be greener out of the EU (after
then admitting it would probably die first and need re-turfing with
turf bought elsewhere) and to get the (what turns out top be dead
grass) we need to throw the baby out with the bath water as well.

The remainers are happy with 'a bird in the hand' till someone has an
actual real issue (not some hypothetical one that will cost us all big
time to 'fix').

Cheers, T i m

On Wed, 24 Oct 2018 12:22:54 +0100, Pamela
wrote:

On 11:37 24 Oct 2018, fred wrote in
:

On Wednesday, October 24, 2018 at 11:30:38 AM UTC+1, Handsome Jack
wrote:
fred posted
cf leader in Daily Mail

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...he-guardian-vi
ew- on-the-daily-mail-and-brexit-a-very-public-shift

A classic case of a comment piece that destroys its own argument.
"The easy explanation for this shift would be to attribute it to the
new editor, Geordie Greig, who replaced Paul Dacre last month after a
26-year reign. That is a big factor. But the deeper reason is that
the national mood is changing. "

No it isn't. The explanation is that the Mail has a new editor.

--
Jack

and you know this how ?

I was wondering that too. Perhaps Handsome Jack is in denial about the
changing national mood and, as a result, he can't see it.


I do feel sorry for them (the fanatic Brexiteers). It can't be nice
having a big issue about something when 'most people' don't share
those views and then, thinking you have got away with something that
you have been found out and the rug being pull out from under you? ;-(

Stepping back a second ... it's a small rebel group who have a range
of (differing) views re our membership of the EU and have managed to
scam *just* enough people to give them a marginal win using an
inappropriate *******ised poll and after winning .... taking 2+ years
to find out what they have actually won (which looks like a lame
duck)?

What a poorly planned and implemented farce.

It's a farce because it's patently obvious it's not actually *wanted*
by the majority, the benefits of doing it are questionable at best and
the chances of the outcome being appreciated by the majority are just
the propaganda of a minority of fanatics.

Now, none of that would matter if the *majority* (and by that I mean
an electoral supermajority) had voted on it, as at least everyone
would accept that as actually being the 'will of the people' (or as
near as you can get to that in any good democratic system).

Cheers, T i m

fred wrote:

Handsome Jack wrote:

the Mail has a new editor.

and you know this how ?

https://www.pressgazette.co.uk/paul-dacre-says-leaving-speech-not-my-style-as-he-bids-farewell-to-daily-mail-staff-in-letter-pinned-to-noticeboard

In article ,
Handsome Jack wrote:
fred posted
cf leader in Daily Mail

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...guardian-view-
on-the-daily-mail-and-brexit-a-very-public-shift

A classic case of a comment piece that destroys its own argument. "The
easy explanation for this shift would be to attribute it to the new
editor, Geordie Greig, who replaced Paul Dacre last month after a
26-year reign. That is a big factor. But the deeper reason is that the
national mood is changing. "

No it isn't. The explanation is that the Mail has a new editor.

Good you realise that with many newspapers facts don't come into it.

--
*The statement below is true.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Wednesday, 24 October 2018 09:55:49 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 24 Oct 2018 00:26:56 -0700 (PDT), fred
wrote:



All the sensible people on both sides and those in the middle are all
still watching and waiting

does anyone have a choice, either way ?


and if the only deal that gets offered is a
bad one or nothing,

could you define a good, bad or 'ugly' deal ?

I mean it takes trained EU negiotaitors 8 years or more to decide on such deals do you really think you could decide in a few minuites or even hours ?

we should be given the option to chose on those
outcomes (or remaining) as it would then be pretty obvious to most
that it would be a bad thing for most people.

So what would you put on the ballot paper and what would happen if some voted NOTA or drew penises.

What if 1/3 didn't vote would that be counted as remaining or agreeing or disagring to the deal.
Or maybe as the curretn option is to leave then allnon-voting want the staus quo which is to leave.

Personally I wouldn't count non voters or penis drawers or NOTAs
But I;m guessing that those that don;t go to football matches must dislike football or prefer cricket as the national sport.





Cheers, T i m

In article ,
Chris Hogg wrote:
Good you realise that with many newspapers facts don't come into it.

Quite, which applies equally to the Grauniad as to the DM. Their main
purpose in life is to sell newspapers.

True - but the Mail was well known for telling porkies and bending the
truth. The red line between the gutter and quality press.

--
*Depression is merely anger without enthusiasm *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Handsome Jack wrote:
fred posted
cf leader in Daily Mail

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...guardian-view-
on-the-daily-mail-and-brexit-a-very-public-shift

A classic case of a comment piece that destroys its own argument. "The
easy explanation for this shift would be to attribute it to the new
editor, Geordie Greig, who replaced Paul Dacre last month after a
26-year reign. That is a big factor. But the deeper reason is that the
national mood is changing. "

No it isn't. The explanation is that the Mail has a new editor.

Good you realise that with many newspapers facts don't come into it.

don't let the facts get in the way of a good story - anon

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

This is precisely the argument I used on friends before the original vote.
Now of course if the EU had actually cut a bit of slack to the members and
Mr Cameron, when he went over none of this nastiness would have happened. I
think whatever happens to the UK unless the EU stop insisting the complete
freedom of movement between vastly different economies is going to carry on
lots more member will be ****ing off.
Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 24 Oct 2018 00:26:56 -0700 (PDT), fred
wrote:

cf leader in Daily Mail

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...CMP=GTUK_email

The tide hasn't turned because as far as Brexit was concerned it was
only ever slack water up a creek.

So, the DM has turned, I wonder if the fanatic Brexiteer worms will
next?

All the sensible people on both sides and those in the middle are all
still watching and waiting and if the only deal that gets offered is a
bad one or nothing, we should be given the option to chose on those
outcomes (or remaining) as it would then be pretty obvious to most
that it would be a bad thing for most people.

Then all the fanatic Brexiteers can f-off to their own 'New Little
England' somewhere as they obviously wouldn't want medical treatment
from a fully trained Eastern European nurse or doctor and wouldn't
want to wait whist we trained one up from outside the EU and wouldn't
want to be cared for in a Care Home by an EU worker either (so we need
to reserve the places for those who are appreciative of such people).

Cheers, T i m

On Wed, 24 Oct 2018 19:39:06 +0100, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

This is precisely the argument I used on friends before the original vote.
Now of course if the EU had actually cut a bit of slack to the members and
Mr Cameron, when he went over none of this nastiness would have happened.

The problem is that there isn't much slack in the “four freedoms” of
EU membership. Also, one of the biggest 'reasons' for leaving
(immigration from within the EU) was actually already manageable by
the existing rules and another, the laws thing isn't actually a real
world problem to anyone I know?

I
think whatever happens to the UK unless the EU stop insisting the complete
freedom of movement between vastly different economies is going to carry on
lots more member will be ****ing off.

Ironically, I think there is a good chance many of the issues will be
resolved in any case (if we leave or not) because they would want to
stop others leaving and the only way they can do that is by changing
stuff before they do (or threaten to).


Cheers, T i m

T i m wrote
Brian Gaff wrote

This is precisely the argument I used on friends before the original
vote.
Now of course if the EU had actually cut a bit of slack to the members
and
Mr Cameron, when he went over none of this nastiness would have happened.

The problem is that there isn't much slack in the "four freedoms"
of EU membership. Also, one of the biggest 'reasons' for leaving
(immigration from within the EU) was actually already manageable
by the existing rules and another, the laws thing isn't actually a
real world problem to anyone I know?

It clearly is for many who voted to leave.

I think whatever happens to the UK unless the EU stop insisting the
complete freedom of movement between vastly different economies
is going to carry on lots more member will be ****ing off.

Ironically, I think there is a good chance many of the issues
will be resolved in any case (if we leave or not) because they
would want to stop others leaving and the only way they can
do that is by changing stuff before they do (or threaten to).

No evidence that the EU has ever done anything like that.
Its always been a relentless movement towards ever closer
integration and stuff like telling Italy that they can't have the
budget their voters voted to have in their general election,
and with Hungary, telling them that they cant do what their
democratic system has decided the voters want with illegal
immigrants either. And now if you want to join the EU, you
get no choice on the eurozone or schengen either.

On Thu, 25 Oct 2018 08:10:29 +1100, cantankerous trolling senile geezer Rot
Speed blabbered, again:

The problem is that there isn't much slack in the "four freedoms"
of EU membership. Also, one of the biggest 'reasons' for leaving
(immigration from within the EU) was actually already manageable
by the existing rules and another, the laws thing isn't actually a
real world problem to anyone I know?

It clearly is for many who voted to leave.

Yeah, but look at the mental state of those. Just look at your own mental
state, senile idiot! LOL

--
Richard addressing Rot Speed:
"**** you're thick/pathetic excuse for a troll."
MID:

In article ,
Brian Gaff wrote:
Now of course if the EU had actually cut a bit of slack to the members
and Mr Cameron, when he went over none of this nastiness would have
happened.

Wouldn't have made a scrap of difference to the little Englanders who are
most of the Brexiteers.

--
*When everything's coming your way, you're in the wrong lane *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Wednesday, 24 October 2018 20:24:05 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 24 Oct 2018 19:39:06 +0100, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

This is precisely the argument I used on friends before the original vote.
Now of course if the EU had actually cut a bit of slack to the members and
Mr Cameron, when he went over none of this nastiness would have happened..

The problem is that there isn't much slack in the €œfour freedoms€� of
EU membership.

What are these 4 freedoms ?

They can't even count.
Teh 4 freedoms came from the EEC the freedom of WORKERS being able to WORK where they wanted rather than the added freedom of NONE workers being able to benifits in another country.



Also, one of the biggest 'reasons' for leaving
(immigration from within the EU) was actually already manageable by
the existing rules and another,

Then they should have implemented them or created EU laws which do.


the laws thing isn't actually a real
world problem to anyone I know?

and I don't know any airline pilots does that mean that airliners aren't piloted by people ?




I
think whatever happens to the UK unless the EU stop insisting the complete
freedom of movement between vastly different economies is going to carry on
lots more member will be ****ing off.

Ironically, I think there is a good chance many of the issues will be
resolved in any case (if we leave or not) because they would want to
stop others leaving and the only way they can do that is by changing
stuff before they do (or threaten to).

Exactly and this could only ever be achieved by the UK leaving the EU, and that's why we got the result we did, because the EU said it wouldn't change, it even refused a vote on change.
The was no way the issue would have been resolved, camoroon tried and they (EU) said no, well German and France did I don't remember anyone actually being asked.

It;s rather like people that attempt suicide they do it for a reason not many do it for fun.

In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
The problem is that there isn't much slack in the ”four freedoms• of
EU membership.

What are these 4 freedoms ?

And you still think everyone should be allowed the vote?

--
*Never test the depth of the water with both feet.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Thursday, 25 October 2018 11:03:52 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
The problem is that there isn't much slack in the €�four freedoms€¢ of
EU membership.

What are these 4 freedoms ?

And you still think everyone should be allowed the vote?

No, I've never said that.

On Thu, 25 Oct 2018 11:02:05 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
The problem is that there isn't much slack in the ”four freedoms• of
EU membership.

What are these 4 freedoms ?

And you still think everyone should be allowed the vote?

;-)

I think they do provide crayons at the polling stations for those who
look like they might hurt themselves with pen. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 24 October 2018 20:24:05 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 24 Oct 2018 19:39:06 +0100, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

This is precisely the argument I used on friends before the original
vote.
Now of course if the EU had actually cut a bit of slack to the members
and
Mr Cameron, when he went over none of this nastiness would have
happened.

The problem is that there isn't much slack in the €œfour freedoms€� of
EU membership.

What are these 4 freedoms ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe...i ngle_Market

They can't even count.

You can't, as always.

Teh 4 freedoms came from the EEC the freedom of WORKERS
being able to WORK where they wanted rather than the added
freedom of NONE workers being able to benifits in another country.

Thats just one of them and the detail on that has changed over time too.

Also, one of the biggest 'reasons' for leaving
(immigration from within the EU) was actually
already manageable by the existing rules and another,

Then they should have implemented them

They did.

or created EU laws which do.

It doesnt work like that.

the laws thing isn't actually a real
world problem to anyone I know?

and I don't know any airline pilots does that
mean that airliners aren't piloted by people ?

What a terminal ****wit you have always been...

I
think whatever happens to the UK unless the EU stop insisting the
complete
freedom of movement between vastly different economies is going to carry
on
lots more member will be ****ing off.

Ironically, I think there is a good chance many of the issues will be
resolved in any case (if we leave or not) because they would want to
stop others leaving and the only way they can do that is by changing
stuff before they do (or threaten to).

Exactly and this could only ever be achieved by the UK leaving the EU, and
that's why we got the result we did, because the EU said it wouldn't
change, it even refused a vote on change.
The was no way the issue would have been resolved, camoroon tried and they
(EU) said no, well German and France did I don't remember anyone actually
being asked.

It;s rather like people that attempt suicide they do it for a reason not
many do it for fun.

On Thursday, 25 October 2018 10:57:21 UTC+1, whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 24 October 2018 20:24:05 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 24 Oct 2018 19:39:06 +0100, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

This is precisely the argument I used on friends before the original vote.
Now of course if the EU had actually cut a bit of slack to the members and
Mr Cameron, when he went over none of this nastiness would have happened.

The problem is that there isn't much slack in the €œfour freedoms€� of
EU membership.

What are these 4 freedoms ?

They can't even count.
Teh 4 freedoms came from the EEC the freedom of WORKERS being able to WORK where they wanted rather than the added freedom of NONE workers being able to benifits in another country.



Also, one of the biggest 'reasons' for leaving
(immigration from within the EU) was actually already manageable by
the existing rules and another,

Then they should have implemented them or created EU laws which do.


the laws thing isn't actually a real
world problem to anyone I know?

and I don't know any airline pilots does that mean that airliners aren't piloted by people ?




I
think whatever happens to the UK unless the EU stop insisting the complete
freedom of movement between vastly different economies is going to carry on
lots more member will be ****ing off.

Ironically, I think there is a good chance many of the issues will be
resolved in any case (if we leave or not) because they would want to
stop others leaving and the only way they can do that is by changing
stuff before they do (or threaten to).

Exactly and this could only ever be achieved by the UK leaving the EU, and that's why we got the result we did, because the EU said it wouldn't change, it even refused a vote on change.
The was no way the issue would have been resolved, camoroon tried and they (EU) said no, well German and France did I don't remember anyone actually being asked.

It;s rather like people that attempt suicide they do it for a reason not many do it for fun.

https://www.ukipdaily.com/how-uk-off...espite-brexit/

On Wednesday, 24 October 2018 19:39:12 UTC+1, Brian Gaff wrote:
This is precisely the argument I used on friends before the original vote.
Now of course if the EU had actually cut a bit of slack to the members and
Mr Cameron, when he went over none of this nastiness would have happened. I
think whatever happens to the UK unless the EU stop insisting the complete
freedom of movement between vastly different economies is going to carry on
lots more member will be ****ing off.
Brian

https://www.ukipdaily.com/how-uk-off...espite-brexit/

On Thursday, 25 October 2018 15:45:31 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 24 October 2018 20:24:05 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 24 Oct 2018 19:39:06 +0100, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

This is precisely the argument I used on friends before the original
vote.
Now of course if the EU had actually cut a bit of slack to the members
and
Mr Cameron, when he went over none of this nastiness would have
happened.

The problem is that there isn't much slack in the €œfour freedoms€� of
EU membership.

What are these 4 freedoms ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe...i ngle_Market

They can't even count.

You can't, as always.

as I said they can't count.

Free movement of goods

Free movement of capital

Freedom to establish and provide services

Free movement of persons

Free movement of workers

Free movement of citizens



Teh 4 freedoms came from the EEC the freedom of WORKERS
being able to WORK where they wanted rather than the added
freedom of NONE workers being able to benifits in another country.

Thats just one of them and the detail on that has changed over time too.


Which we of course voted for, and you believe it.

"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Thursday, 25 October 2018 15:45:31 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 24 October 2018 20:24:05 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 24 Oct 2018 19:39:06 +0100, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

This is precisely the argument I used on friends before the original
vote.
Now of course if the EU had actually cut a bit of slack to the
members
and
Mr Cameron, when he went over none of this nastiness would have
happened.

The problem is that there isn't much slack in the €œfour freedoms€� of
EU membership.

What are these 4 freedoms ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe...i ngle_Market

They can't even count.

You can't, as always.

as I said they can't count.

Free movement of goods

Free movement of capital

Freedom to establish and provide services

Free movement of persons

Free movement of workers

Free movement of citizens



Teh 4 freedoms came from the EEC the freedom of WORKERS
being able to WORK where they wanted rather than the added
freedom of NONE workers being able to benifits in another country.

Thats just one of them and the detail on that has changed over time too.


Which we of course voted for,

Nope.

On Fri, 26 Oct 2018 01:42:10 +1100, cantankerous trolling senile geezer Rot
Speed blabbered, again:

What a terminal ****wit you have always been...

What a sleepless senile PEST you have always been. I mean you get up EVERY
day between ONE and FOUR am! That's because your trolling here is ALL you
have in your senile "life"! LOL

--
Richard addressing Rot Speed:
"**** you're thick/pathetic excuse for a troll."
MID:

In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
Free movement of persons

Free movement of workers

Free movement of citizens

Care to say what you consider the differences between those?

--
*If a thing is worth doing, wouldn't it have been done already?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Thursday, 25 October 2018 19:25:29 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
Free movement of persons

at a guess a person can be anyone in the world, might even extend it to extra terestrials depending on how the word person is used.
A kebab is not normally refered to as a person.


Free movement of workers

a worker someone that is working and is employerd to do a job of work, that includes legal and illegal workers.
I don't consider a kebab a worker.



Free movement of citizens

a citzen of this country was redefined a few years ago IIRC now you are a citizen if you were born in the country and one of yuor parents was also born in this country.

I don't think kebabs can be considered citizens even if they are made in the UK by citizens of the UK.





Care to say what you consider the differences between those?

Can you tell me the dirrence between a sunday roast and the above ?

In article , fred
writes
On Wednesday, October 24, 2018 at 11:30:38 AM UTC+1, Handsome Jack wrote:
fred posted
cf leader in Daily Mail

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...guardian-view-
on-the-daily-mail-and-brexit-a-very-public-shift

A classic case of a comment piece that destroys its own argument. "The
easy explanation for this shift would be to attribute it to the new
editor, Geordie Greig, who replaced Paul Dacre last month after a
26-year reign. That is a big factor. But the deeper reason is that the
national mood is changing. "

No it isn't. The explanation is that the Mail has a new editor.

--
Jack

and you know this how ?
Because his name is in the paper.
--
bert

In article , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
Chris Hogg wrote:
Good you realise that with many newspapers facts don't come into it.

Quite, which applies equally to the Grauniad as to the DM. Their main
purpose in life is to sell newspapers.

True - but the Mail was well known for telling porkies and bending the
truth. The red line between the gutter and quality press.

I've asked you several time to cite articles in the DM to back up your
various accusations.
--
bert