I have an ancient Panasonic KX-TA624 wired as three into 8...

It used to work with a master digital phone, but thats gone AWOL.

So I bought a job lot of KX-T7750s and a KX-T7730 ...

But they don't seem to work no matter what wires I connect.

Does anyone know chapter and verse on the compatibility of these?




--
€œThe ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to
fill the world with fools.€�

Herbert Spencer

Did you not post this question last week?
Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
news
I have an ancient Panasonic KX-TA624 wired as three into 8...

It used to work with a master digital phone, but thats gone AWOL.

So I bought a job lot of KX-T7750s and a KX-T7730 ...

But they don't seem to work no matter what wires I connect.

Does anyone know chapter and verse on the compatibility of these?




--
"The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill
the world with fools."

Herbert Spencer

On Tuesday, 9 October 2018 10:51:10 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I have an ancient Panasonic KX-TA624 wired as three into 8...
It used to work with a master digital phone, but thats gone AWOL.
So I bought a job lot of KX-T7750s and a KX-T7730 ...
But they don't seem to work no matter what wires I connect.
Does anyone know chapter and verse on the compatibility of these?

7730 (and 7735) definately works on KX-TA624 as I've got several.

KX-70xx, KX-T77xx all work on KX-TA as well as the newer KX-TDA Digital Hybrid Systems.

You need the right line cord for them though, and then the sockets wired correctly.

I don't think /either/ 'standard' RJ-BT line cord works.

"Pamela" wrote in message ...

On 10:51 9 Oct 2018, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

I have an ancient Panasonic KX-TA624 wired as three into 8...

It used to work with a master digital phone, but thats gone AWOL.

So I bought a job lot of KX-T7750s and a KX-T7730 ...

But they don't seem to work no matter what wires I connect.

Does anyone know chapter and verse on the compatibility of these?

What was the point of buying a job lot if you didn't have any idea
if they were compatible? Wouldn't it be better to think it through
first.

Can't afford to miss a potential bargain

Actually I've done it myself, oddly enough on Panasonic telephone kit! I
use an old DBS (Digital Business System) - the first series not the later
one, and it's hybrid analogue / digital. I bought a job lot of remote door
lock operators and voice announce units. Some were and some were not
compatible !

Andrew

On 09/10/18 12:53, Pamela wrote:
On 10:51 9 Oct 2018, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

I have an ancient Panasonic KX-TA624 wired as three into 8...

It used to work with a master digital phone, but thats gone AWOL.

So I bought a job lot of KX-T7750s and a KX-T7730 ...

But they don't seem to work no matter what wires I connect.

Does anyone know chapter and verse on the compatibility of these?

What was the point of buying a job lot if you didn't have any idea
if they were compatible? Wouldn't it be better to think it through
first.

Oh dear. According to all the websites - and I spent 4 days checking -
they WERE compatible.

Not everybody is as stupid as you Pam.

--
"When one man dies it's a tragedy. When thousands die it's statistics."

Josef Stalin

On 09/10/18 16:31, Brian Gaff wrote:
Did you not post this question last week?
Brian

No


--
"When one man dies it's a tragedy. When thousands die it's statistics."

Josef Stalin

On Tuesday, 9 October 2018 17:03:06 UTC+1, wrote:
You need the right line cord for them though, and then the sockets wired
correctly.
I don't think /either/ 'standard' RJ-BT line cord works.

Maybe tomorrow evening I'll bell out a known good Panasonic keyphone cord and post the pin mapping if you still have problems. I still think the problem is the cord.

Have you tried the phones on all ports and with an extension socket (no ringing cap or resistor)? Any master socket components WILL disable the datastream.

Owain

On 09/10/18 17:03, wrote:
On Tuesday, 9 October 2018 10:51:10 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I have an ancient Panasonic KX-TA624 wired as three into 8...
It used to work with a master digital phone, but thats gone AWOL.
So I bought a job lot of KX-T7750s and a KX-T7730 ...
But they don't seem to work no matter what wires I connect.
Does anyone know chapter and verse on the compatibility of these?

7730 (and 7735) definately works on KX-TA624 as I've got several.

KX-70xx, KX-T77xx all work on KX-TA as well as the newer KX-TDA Digital Hybrid Systems.

You need the right line cord for them though, and then the sockets wired correctly.

I don't think /either/ 'standard' RJ-BT line cord works.


the phones have 4 wires in this case wired to a BT plug.

I have connected te 4 wires coming out of the PABX to them, in every
possible way. They do not work.





--
"Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They
always run out of other people's money. It's quite a characteristic of them"

Margaret Thatcher

On 09/10/18 20:29, wrote:
On Tuesday, 9 October 2018 17:03:06 UTC+1, wrote:
You need the right line cord for them though, and then the sockets wired
correctly.
I don't think /either/ 'standard' RJ-BT line cord works.

Maybe tomorrow evening I'll bell out a known good Panasonic keyphone cord and post the pin mapping if you still have problems. I still think the problem is the cord.

Have you tried the phones on all ports

well about 5.

and with an extension socket (no ringing cap or resistor)?

yep. Ive been cutting components out of a gash socket and punching down
the structured cabling.

Only thing I left was the resistor.


Any master socket components WILL disable the datastream.

I dont even get an off hook tone.


Owain



--
There is nothing a fleet of dispatchable nuclear power plants cannot do
that cannot be done worse and more expensively and with higher carbon
emissions and more adverse environmental impact by adding intermittent
renewable energy.

On 09/10/18 18:34, Pamela wrote:
On 18:18 9 Oct 2018, The Natural Philosopher
wrote in news
On 09/10/18 12:53, Pamela wrote:
On 10:51 9 Oct 2018, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

I have an ancient Panasonic KX-TA624 wired as three into 8...

It used to work with a master digital phone, but thats gone
AWOL.

So I bought a job lot of KX-T7750s and a KX-T7730 ...

But they don't seem to work no matter what wires I connect.

Does anyone know chapter and verse on the compatibility of
these?

What was the point of buying a job lot if you didn't have any
idea if they were compatible? Wouldn't it be better to think it
through first.

Oh dear. According to all the websites - and I spent 4 days
checking - they WERE compatible.

Not everybody is as stupid as you Pam.

Your foolishness is that you bought them but you can't make them
work.


My foolishness was in believing that the online data from panasonic that
said they would work, was true, and that wiring them up in accordance
with the the spec would work.

Know your limitations and leave this sort of thing to someone who
knows what they're doing.

hahah. I am that man.

--
€œit should be clear by now to everyone that activist environmentalism
(or environmental activism) is becoming a general ideology about humans,
about their freedom, about the relationship between the individual and
the state, and about the manipulation of people under the guise of a
'noble' idea. It is not an honest pursuit of 'sustainable development,'
a matter of elementary environmental protection, or a search for
rational mechanisms designed to achieve a healthy environment. Yet
things do occur that make you shake your head and remind yourself that
you live neither in Joseph Stalins Communist era, nor in the Orwellian
utopia of 1984.€�

Vaclav Klaus

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

[snip]


My foolishness was in believing that the online data from panasonic that
said they would work, was true, and that wiring them up in accordance
with the the spec would work.

Know your limitations and leave this sort of thing to someone who
knows what they're doing.

hahah. I am that man.


Perhaps they are faulty, which is why they were a job lot ????

--
Graham J

On 09/10/18 22:43, Graham J wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

[snip]


My foolishness was in believing that the online data from panasonic
that said they would work, was true, and that wiring them up in
accordance with the the spec would work.

Know your limitations and leave this sort of thing to someone who
knows what they're doing.

hahah. I am that man.


Perhaps they are faulty, which is why they were a job lot ????

No. they are clearly out of an office/small business

--
Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the
gospel of envy.

Its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.

Winston Churchill

On Tue, 9 Oct 2018 10:51:08 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

I have an ancient Panasonic KX-TA624 wired as three into 8...

It used to work with a master digital phone, but thats gone AWOL.

So I bought a job lot of KX-T7750s and a KX-T7730 ...

But they don't seem to work no matter what wires I connect.

Does anyone know chapter and verse on the compatibility of these?

No, but the best guess would be 3 & 4 on the RJ11, the middle two pins of the
'six' would go to 2 and 5 on the BT431A plug

But, because of the numbering screw up between plug and socket circa 1980 it
could be 3 & 4 on the RJ11 to 5 and 2 on the BT431A

--

In article ,
Pamela wrote:
On 18:18 9 Oct 2018, The Natural Philosopher
wrote in news

On 09/10/18 12:53, Pamela wrote:
On 10:51 9 Oct 2018, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

I have an ancient Panasonic KX-TA624 wired as three into 8...

It used to work with a master digital phone, but thats gone
AWOL.

So I bought a job lot of KX-T7750s and a KX-T7730 ...

But they don't seem to work no matter what wires I connect.

Does anyone know chapter and verse on the compatibility of
these?

What was the point of buying a job lot if you didn't have any
idea if they were compatible? Wouldn't it be better to think it
through first.

Oh dear. According to all the websites - and I spent 4 days
checking - they WERE compatible.

Not everybody is as stupid as you Pam.

Your foolishness is that you bought them but you can't make them
work.

Know your limitations and leave this sort of thing to someone who
knows what they're doing.

Gotta smile that someone who claims to have all the electronics experience
that Turnip does can't get a phone working.

--
*Why is it that to stop Windows 95, you have to click on "Start"?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Tuesday, 9 October 2018 21:54:23 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
and with an extension socket (no ringing cap or resistor)?
yep. Ive been cutting components out of a gash socket and punching down
the structured cabling.
Only thing I left was the resistor.
Any master socket components WILL disable the datastream.

That resistor between 3 and 5 will disable the datastream (I assume, I've never actually tried it wired wrong)

You won't get dialling tone out of a keyphone with a faulty data pair as the hookswitch is data controlled not looping the line.

Correctly wired, a parallel single line telephone will light the Intercom light on the keyphone when going off-hook on the SLT (and the keyphone display will show the digits dialled by the SLT, even if the SLT is LD)

Owain

On 10/10/18 11:20, The Other Mike wrote:
On Tue, 9 Oct 2018 10:51:08 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

I have an ancient Panasonic KX-TA624 wired as three into 8...

It used to work with a master digital phone, but thats gone AWOL.

So I bought a job lot of KX-T7750s and a KX-T7730 ...

But they don't seem to work no matter what wires I connect.

Does anyone know chapter and verse on the compatibility of these?

No, but the best guess would be 3 & 4 on the RJ11, the middle two pins of the
'six' would go to 2 and 5 on the BT431A plug

But, because of the numbering screw up between plug and socket circa 1980 it
could be 3 & 4 on the RJ11 to 5 and 2 on the BT431A

Ah - now that maye be intersting.

Currently I have 2 and 5 working for ANALOGUE phones correcyly with et
ring being reconstituted via a master socket. I had assumed they would
use the same pair for difital,. so I have simplye added te wiores that
wer left over on te PABX to 3 & 4, qanmd tried all polarity combiantions.

Are you saying that the wires that go to 2 & 5 on the analogue system,
need to go to 3 & 4 on the keyphone?



--
€œSome people like to travel by train because it combines the slowness of
a car with the cramped public exposure of €¨an airplane.€�

Dennis Miller

On 10/10/18 17:55, wrote:
On Tuesday, 9 October 2018 21:54:23 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
and with an extension socket (no ringing cap or resistor)?
yep. Ive been cutting components out of a gash socket and punching down
the structured cabling.
Only thing I left was the resistor.
Any master socket components WILL disable the datastream.

That resistor between 3 and 5 will disable the datastream (I assume, I've never actually tried it wired wrong)

You won't get dialling tone out of a keyphone with a faulty data pair as the hookswitch is data controlled not looping the line.

Correctly wired, a parallel single line telephone will light the Intercom light on the keyphone when going off-hook on the SLT (and the keyphone display will show the digits dialled by the SLT, even if the SLT is LD)

Owain


OK, with The iother mikes poast thats two thinsg to try - completely
removing all mastering components on the socket and maybe moving the
pairs around as well as changing polarity.

I'll try both of those and see what happens...


--
"Strange as it seems, no amount of learning can cure stupidity, and
higher education positively fortifies it."

- Stephen Vizinczey

On Wednesday, 10 October 2018 21:09:01 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
OK, with The iother mikes poast thats two thinsg to try - completely
removing all mastering components on the socket and maybe moving the
pairs around as well as changing polarity.

Again, see
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...-wiring-UK.JPG

Red and Green are speech pair.

AFAIK the whole 2-3-4-5 sequence is polarity dependent and any transposition stops the data pair working.

At least, I know if I follow that diagram *my* system works :-)

Owain

On 10/10/18 21:37, wrote:
On Wednesday, 10 October 2018 21:09:01 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
OK, with The iother mikes poast thats two thinsg to try - completely
removing all mastering components on the socket and maybe moving the
pairs around as well as changing polarity.

Again, see
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...-wiring-UK.JPG

Red and Green are speech pair.

AFAIK the whole 2-3-4-5 sequence is polarity dependent and any transposition stops the data pair working.

At least, I know if I follow that diagram *my* system works :-)

Owain

I followed that diagram exactly and it did not work but I did not
remnove the resistor



--
"Strange as it seems, no amount of learning can cure stupidity, and
higher education positively fortifies it."

- Stephen Vizinczey

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 10/10/18 11:20, The Other Mike wrote:
On Tue, 9 Oct 2018 10:51:08 +0100, The Natural Philosopher

wrote:

I have an ancient Panasonic KX-TA624 wired as three into 8...

It used to work with a master digital phone, but thats gone AWOL.

So I bought a job lot of KX-T7750s and a KX-T7730 ...

But they don't seem to work no matter what wires I connect.

Does anyone know chapter and verse on the compatibility of these?

No,Â* but the best guess would be 3 & 4 on the RJ11, the middle two
pins of the
'six'Â* would go to 2 and 5 on the BT431A plug

But, because of the numbering screw up between plug and socket circa
1980 it
could beÂ* 3 & 4 on the RJ11 to 5 and 2 on the BT431A

Ah - now that maye be intersting.

Currently I have 2 and 5 working for ANALOGUE phones correcyly with et
ring being reconstituted via a master socket. I had assumed they would
use the same pair for difital,. so I have simplye added te wiores that
wer left over on te PABX to 3 & 4, qanmd tried all polarity combiantions.

Are you saying that the wires that go to 2 & 5 on the analogue system,
need to go to 3 & 4 on the keyphone?



Would you care to re-type all that?

--
Graham J

On 10/10/18 22:48, Graham J wrote:
Ah - now that maye be intersting.

Currently I have 2 and 5 working for ANALOGUE phones correcyly with et
ring being reconstituted via a master socket. I had assumed they would
use the same pair for difital,. so I have simplye added te wiores that
wer left over on te PABX to 3 & 4, qanmd tried all polarity combiantions.

Are you saying that the wires that go to 2 & 5 on the analogue system,
need to go to 3 & 4 on the keyphone?
Ah - now that may be interesting.

Currently I have 2 and 5 working for ANALOGUE phones correctly, with the
ring being reconstituted via a master socket. I had assumed they would
use the same pair for digital,. so I have simply added the wires that
were 'left' over on te PABX to 3 & 4, and tried all polarity combiantions.

Are you saying that the wires that used to go to 2 & 5 on the analogue
phone, need to go to 3 & 4 on the keyphone?

--
To ban Christmas, simply give turkeys the vote.

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 10/10/18 22:48, Graham J wrote:
Ah - now that maye be intersting.

Currently I have 2 and 5 working for ANALOGUE phones correcyly with et
ring being reconstituted via a master socket. I had assumed they would
use the same pair for difital,. so I have simplye added te wiores that
wer left over on te PABX to 3 & 4, qanmd tried all polarity combiantions.

Are you saying that the wires that go to 2 & 5 on the analogue system,
need to go to 3 & 4 on the keyphone?
Ah - now that may be interesting.

Currently I have 2 and 5 working for ANALOGUE phones correctly, with the
ring being reconstituted via a master socket. I had assumed they would
use the same pair for digital,. so I have simply added the wires that
were 'left' over on te PABX to 3 & 4, and tried all polarity combiantions.

Are you saying that the wires that used to go to 2 & 5 on the analogue
phone, need to go to 3 & 4 on the keyphone?

OK so I now understand what you have written.

Presumably your reason for posting is that you cannot find authoritative
documentation on how everything should be wired up. Or is it that the
documentation you have is wrong? Or that the devices are actually faulty?

--
Graham J

On Wednesday, 10 October 2018 22:35:27 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I followed that diagram exactly and it did not work but I did not
remnove the resistor

Please remove resistor :-)

Owain

On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 06:46:08 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

Ah - now that may be interesting.

Currently I have 2 and 5 working for ANALOGUE phones correctly, with the
ring being reconstituted via a master socket. I had assumed they would
use the same pair for digital,. so I have simply added the wires that
were 'left' over on te PABX to 3 & 4, and tried all polarity combiantions.

Are you saying that the wires that used to go to 2 & 5 on the analogue
phone, need to go to 3 & 4 on the keyphone?

It is some time since I used a KXT308 but I think the wiring is the
same as the KXT624.

The Panasonic wiring is designed to match the US convention of wiring
the centre pair on a 4 pin RJ11 for voice. On a USA analogue line
this allows a second line to be connected to the outer pair if two
lines are needed. The BT socket uses the outer pair of 4 for voice
with one of the inner pair for ringing.

The KX exchanges were often used with one system phone (for
programming) plus conventional analogue phones on extensions. The
PABX wiring allowed plug in leads to be used with analogue phones
without having to wire plugs and sockets.

The Panasonic socket wiring looking in from the front and with the tab
uppermost is :-

2 Data High (H)
3 Voice ("Tip")
4 Voice ("Ring"
5 Data Low (L)

So for voice wiring (non-system analogue phone) 3 and 4 are the voice
pair and these would be wired into 2 and 5 on a BT style master
socket. A master socket must be used for the ring signal.

For system phones using BT style sockets a slave socket must be used
wired with :-

Data H (2) wired to BT 3

3 (Tip) wired to BT 2

4 (Ring) wired to BT 5

Data L (5) to BT 4

(You might need to swap the Data H and L connections - I'm working
from memory).

I wired the PABX plug to wire end leads to a Krone block near the
exchange and then took the wiring from there to the sockets. This
meant the cable US/UK swapping was easily done on the Krone strips
without having to wire the extension sockets in non standard ways.

Programming is done using a system phone via "Jack 01".

If you are making up your own leads if you use Cat 5 to 568A wiring
standard it will give you a blue pair for voice on the centre 2
connectors (4 and 5) and an orange pair (3 and 6) for data on the
next outer pair straddling the orange pair which makes life a bit
neater.

On Thursday, 11 October 2018 09:31:02 UTC+1, wrote:
On Wednesday, 10 October 2018 22:35:27 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I followed that diagram exactly and it did not work but I did not
remnove the resistor
Please remove resistor :-)

Actually I have just tried this with my master socket simulator box.

Adding the test resistor and/or ring cap has no effect. Pressing Earth Recall temporarily disrupts the data stream. Adding a 3k3 resistor in series with wire 3 (which I have to test low Z bells) kills the data stream.

I now wonder if you have faulty cords.

Can you try the phones direct off the PBX with RJ12-RJ12 cords instead of UK style ones?

Owain

On 11/10/18 09:24, Graham J wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 10/10/18 22:48, Graham J wrote:
Ah - now that maye be intersting.

Currently I have 2 and 5 working for ANALOGUE phones correcyly with
et ring being reconstituted via a master socket. I had assumed they
would use the same pair for difital,. so I have simplye added te
wiores that wer left over on te PABX to 3 & 4, qanmd tried all
polarity combiantions.

Are you saying that the wires that go to 2 & 5 on the analogue
system, need to go to 3 & 4 on the keyphone?
Ah - now that may be interesting.

Currently I have 2 and 5 working for ANALOGUE phones correctly, with
the ring being reconstituted via a master socket. I had assumed they
would use the same pair for digital,. so I have simply added the wires
that were 'left' over on te PABX to 3 & 4, and tried all polarity
combiantions.

Are you saying that the wires that used to go to 2 & 5 on the analogue
phone, need to go to 3 & 4 on the keyphone?

OK so I now understand what you have written.

Presumably your reason for posting is that you cannot find authoritative
documentation on how everything should be wired up.Â* Or is it that the
documentation you have is wrong?Â* Or that the devices are actually faulty?

Well any of the above.

I have phones with 4 wire BT plugs. They are supposed to work with the
PABX. To date they don't. I have connected (via strucured cabling
system)thosee 4 aires to what seems to be the right pins.

Yet to try is removing EVERY component from my now ex master socket.
And flipping polaritries and pairs on the 4 wires






--
"A point of view can be a dangerous luxury when substituted for insight
and understanding".

Marshall McLuhan

On 11/10/18 11:20, Peter Parry wrote:
On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 06:46:08 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

Ah - now that may be interesting.

Currently I have 2 and 5 working for ANALOGUE phones correctly, with the
ring being reconstituted via a master socket. I had assumed they would
use the same pair for digital,. so I have simply added the wires that
were 'left' over on te PABX to 3 & 4, and tried all polarity combiantions.

Are you saying that the wires that used to go to 2 & 5 on the analogue
phone, need to go to 3 & 4 on the keyphone?

It is some time since I used a KXT308 but I think the wiring is the
same as the KXT624.

The Panasonic wiring is designed to match the US convention of wiring
the centre pair on a 4 pin RJ11 for voice. On a USA analogue line
this allows a second line to be connected to the outer pair if two
lines are needed. The BT socket uses the outer pair of 4 for voice
with one of the inner pair for ringing.

The KX exchanges were often used with one system phone (for
programming) plus conventional analogue phones on extensions. The
PABX wiring allowed plug in leads to be used with analogue phones
without having to wire plugs and sockets.

The Panasonic socket wiring looking in from the front and with the tab
uppermost is :-

2 Data High (H)
3 Voice ("Tip")
4 Voice ("Ring"
5 Data Low (L)

So for voice wiring (non-system analogue phone) 3 and 4 are the voice
pair and these would be wired into 2 and 5 on a BT style master
socket. A master socket must be used for the ring signal.

For system phones using BT style sockets a slave socket must be used
wired with :-

Data H (2) wired to BT 3

3 (Tip) wired to BT 2

4 (Ring) wired to BT 5

Data L (5) to BT 4

(You might need to swap the Data H and L connections - I'm working
from memory).

I wired the PABX plug to wire end leads to a Krone block near the
exchange and then took the wiring from there to the sockets. This
meant the cable US/UK swapping was easily done on the Krone strips
without having to wire the extension sockets in non standard ways.

Programming is done using a system phone via "Jack 01".

If you are making up your own leads if you use Cat 5 to 568A wiring
standard it will give you a blue pair for voice on the centre 2
connectors (4 and 5) and an orange pair (3 and 6) for data on the
next outer pair straddling the orange pair which makes life a bit
neater.

First of all thank you for all that.

Yes, I have structured wiring and yes, blue and orange are the pairs in use.

And yes Blue goes to 2 & 5 and orange to 3 & 4 on the BT socket.
..

What I haven't yet done is removed the resistor on the BT master,


I assume that the PABX is capable of running all digital phones - not
just on extension 1?

--
There is nothing a fleet of dispatchable nuclear power plants cannot do
that cannot be done worse and more expensively and with higher carbon
emissions and more adverse environmental impact by adding intermittent
renewable energy.

On 11/10/18 15:34, wrote:
On Thursday, 11 October 2018 09:31:02 UTC+1, wrote:
On Wednesday, 10 October 2018 22:35:27 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I followed that diagram exactly and it did not work but I did not
remnove the resistor
Please remove resistor :-)

Actually I have just tried this with my master socket simulator box.

Adding the test resistor and/or ring cap has no effect. Pressing Earth Recall temporarily disrupts the data stream. Adding a 3k3 resistor in series with wire 3 (which I have to test low Z bells) kills the data stream.

I now wonder if you have faulty cords.

Can you try the phones direct off the PBX with RJ12-RJ12 cords instead of UK style ones?

That may be the next step.



Owain



--
In todays liberal progressive conflict-free education system, everyone
gets full Marx.

On 10/10/18 14:02, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Gotta smile that someone who claims to have all the electronics experience
that Turnip does can't get a phone working.

It hasnt occurred to you taht in fact the phone may not be able to work
then? And this is to firmly establish whether that is the case.


Intelligence was never your strong point.


--
"It is an established fact to 97% confidence limits that left wing
conspirators see right wing conspiracies everywhere"

On 10/10/18 21:09, Pamela wrote:
On 14:02 10 Oct 2018, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote in :

In article ,
Pamela wrote:
On 18:18 9 Oct 2018, The Natural Philosopher
wrote in news

On 09/10/18 12:53, Pamela wrote:
On 10:51 9 Oct 2018, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

I have an ancient Panasonic KX-TA624 wired as three into 8...

It used to work with a master digital phone, but thats gone
AWOL.

So I bought a job lot of KX-T7750s and a KX-T7730 ...

But they don't seem to work no matter what wires I connect.

Does anyone know chapter and verse on the compatibility of
these?

What was the point of buying a job lot if you didn't have any
idea if they were compatible? Wouldn't it be better to think
it through first.

Oh dear. According to all the websites - and I spent 4 days
checking - they WERE compatible.

Not everybody is as stupid as you Pam.

Your foolishness is that you bought them but you can't make them
work.

Know your limitations and leave this sort of thing to someone who
knows what they're doing.

Gotta smile that someone who claims to have all the electronics
experience that Turnip does can't get a phone working.

In a way, I'm surprised TNP isn't posting about some deep and
meaningful electronics theory and how the phone designers were too
stupid, lazy or incompetent to design something he could use without
getting help.

Why? It's a simple question. Pnasonic support vclaims that model of
phone is compatible with that model of PABX. There are only 8 possible
combinations of 2 pairs of wires . I have tried them all. The phones
don't work. I just want confirmation before I return them as incompatible.

Or broken.


--
The lifetime of any political organisation is about three years before
its been subverted by the people it tried to warn you about.

Anon.

On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 18:55:40 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 11/10/18 11:20, Peter Parry wrote:
On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 06:46:08 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

If you are making up your own leads if you use Cat 5 to 568A wiring
standard it will give you a blue pair for voice on the centre 2
connectors (4 and 5) and an orange pair (3 and 6) for data on the
next outer pair straddling the orange pair which makes life a bit
neater.

First of all thank you for all that.

Yes, I have structured wiring and yes, blue and orange are the pairs in use.

And yes Blue goes to 2 & 5 and orange to 3 & 4 on the BT socket.
.

What I haven't yet done is removed the resistor on the BT master,


I assume that the PABX is capable of running all digital phones - not
just on extension 1?

Yes, you can use all "digital" phones (pedantically hybrid system
phones) as long as you use 4 wires and BT secondary sockets. The PABX
was aimed at small companies where the high cost of system phones
influenced choice of PABX so compatibility with simple analogue phones
and ability to use pre-made leads was a selling point.

On 11/10/18 22:30, Peter Parry wrote:
On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 18:55:40 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 11/10/18 11:20, Peter Parry wrote:
On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 06:46:08 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

If you are making up your own leads if you use Cat 5 to 568A wiring
standard it will give you a blue pair for voice on the centre 2
connectors (4 and 5) and an orange pair (3 and 6) for data on the
next outer pair straddling the orange pair which makes life a bit
neater.

First of all thank you for all that.

Yes, I have structured wiring and yes, blue and orange are the pairs in use.

And yes Blue goes to 2 & 5 and orange to 3 & 4 on the BT socket.
.

What I haven't yet done is removed the resistor on the BT master,


I assume that the PABX is capable of running all digital phones - not
just on extension 1?

Yes, you can use all "digital" phones (pedantically hybrid system
phones) as long as you use 4 wires and BT secondary sockets. The PABX
was aimed at small companies where the high cost of system phones
influenced choice of PABX so compatibility with simple analogue phones
and ability to use pre-made leads was a selling point.

Thanks Peter. I will be there today and will have one last total attempt..


--
How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think.

Adolf Hitler

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 10/10/18 14:02, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Gotta smile that someone who claims to have all the electronics
experience that Turnip does can't get a phone working.

It hasnt occurred to you taht in fact the phone may not be able to work
then?

You've bought ones which are case only - no electronics? ;-)

And this is to firmly establish whether that is the case.

Perhaps you've bought kid's toys by mistake?


Intelligence was never your strong point.

Basic telephony is pretty well the same world wide. Except in Turnip land.

--
*OK, so what's the speed of dark? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Friday, 12 October 2018 11:03:25 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Basic telephony is pretty well the same world wide. Except in Turnip land.

And on Panasonic's proprietary telephone interface.

Owain

On Wed, 10 Oct 2018 21:06:52 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 10/10/18 11:20, The Other Mike wrote:
On Tue, 9 Oct 2018 10:51:08 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

I have an ancient Panasonic KX-TA624 wired as three into 8...

It used to work with a master digital phone, but thats gone AWOL.

So I bought a job lot of KX-T7750s and a KX-T7730 ...

But they don't seem to work no matter what wires I connect.

Does anyone know chapter and verse on the compatibility of these?

No, but the best guess would be 3 & 4 on the RJ11, the middle two pins of the
'six' would go to 2 and 5 on the BT431A plug

But, because of the numbering screw up between plug and socket circa 1980 it
could be 3 & 4 on the RJ11 to 5 and 2 on the BT431A

Ah - now that maye be intersting.

Currently I have 2 and 5 working for ANALOGUE phones correcyly with et
ring being reconstituted via a master socket. I had assumed they would
use the same pair for difital,. so I have simplye added te wiores that
wer left over on te PABX to 3 & 4, qanmd tried all polarity combiantions.

Are you saying that the wires that go to 2 & 5 on the analogue system,
need to go to 3 & 4 on the keyphone?

Yes, with 2 & 5 on the RJ11 being the optional 'digital' connection for feature
phones. A straight RJ11 to RJ11 4 core lead direct from the phone to the socket
on the line card of the exchange should work.

--

On 12/10/18 11:35, wrote:
On Friday, 12 October 2018 11:03:25 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Basic telephony is pretty well the same world wide. Except in Turnip land.

And on Panasonic's proprietary telephone interface.

Owain

Sssh. He doesn't like being shown up to be very ignorant.


--
€œI know that most men, including those at ease with problems of the
greatest complexity, can seldom accept even the simplest and most
obvious truth if it be such as would oblige them to admit the falsity of
conclusions which they have delighted in explaining to colleagues, which
they have proudly taught to others, and which they have woven, thread by
thread, into the fabric of their lives.€�

ۥ Leo Tolstoy

On Fri, 12 Oct 2018 10:58:21 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

Basic telephony is pretty well the same world wide. Except in Turnip land.

It is, but pinouts vary enormously even when it's just the analogue domain.
I lived / worked in six European countries (Norway, Sweden, France, Germany,
Italy, Switzerland) plus the USA and the UK throughout the 1990's and I always
had to cart around a bunch of adaptors to cater for the laptop for fax /
fledgling internet / dial up company network access. Plugging an analogue dial
up modem into a digital only line in your hotel room doesn't work either

PABX's that permit analogue phone and 'digital' featurephones have their own
unique methods of connection. Mix that with the BT interface (4 and 6 wire
versions) or RJ45 sockets and plug in adaptors to the local phone connector
standard and it's very easy to get no connection, or no incoming ringing. A
multimeter helps to some extent
--

The Other Mike wrote:

I always
had to cart around a bunch of adaptors to cater for the laptop for fax /
fledgling internet / dial up company network access.

Some of which put the mains plugs of their respective countries to shame...

On 12/10/18 12:32, Andy Burns wrote:
The Other Mike wrote:

I always
had to cart around a bunch of adaptors to cater for the laptop for fax /
fledgling internet / dial up company network access.

Some of which put the mains plugs of their respective countries to shame...

You have no idea eitehr hwo complex even an anlogue phone has top be to
meet spacs.

Back in the day the GPO had a standard bakelite phone with a carbon
microphone in series with the permanent magnet erarpiece, and when it
becme BT, scared of actually having their network not work, someone
dreamed up a 'circuit' that third party phones had top comply
with...that simlated the load of one or more carbon mike phones complete
with non linearity etc etc.

ANYTHING like a PABX that coonects to a POTS line still has to have all
this built in.



--
Labour - a bunch of rich people convincing poor people to vote for rich
people by telling poor people that "other" rich people are the reason
they are poor.

Peter Thompson

On Fri, 12 Oct 2018 11:37:44 +0100, The Other Mike wrote:

On Wed, 10 Oct 2018 21:06:52 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 10/10/18 11:20, The Other Mike wrote:
On Tue, 9 Oct 2018 10:51:08 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

I have an ancient Panasonic KX-TA624 wired as three into 8...

It used to work with a master digital phone, but thats gone AWOL.

So I bought a job lot of KX-T7750s and a KX-T7730 ...

But they don't seem to work no matter what wires I connect.

Does anyone know chapter and verse on the compatibility of these?

No, but the best guess would be 3 & 4 on the RJ11, the middle two pins of the
'six' would go to 2 and 5 on the BT431A plug

But, because of the numbering screw up between plug and socket circa 1980 it
could be 3 & 4 on the RJ11 to 5 and 2 on the BT431A

Ah - now that maye be intersting.

Currently I have 2 and 5 working for ANALOGUE phones correcyly with et
ring being reconstituted via a master socket. I had assumed they would
use the same pair for difital,. so I have simplye added te wiores that
wer left over on te PABX to 3 & 4, qanmd tried all polarity combiantions.

Are you saying that the wires that go to 2 & 5 on the analogue system,
need to go to 3 & 4 on the keyphone?

Yes, with 2 & 5 on the RJ11 being the optional 'digital' connection for feature
phones. A straight RJ11 to RJ11 4 core lead direct from the phone to the socket
on the line card of the exchange should work.

Being a pedant, a 4 core lead has to be RJ14 to RJ14. RJ11 is a 6 way plug
with 2 pins connected - pair 1 on 3 and 4. RJ14 is a 6 way plug with 4 pins
connected - pair 1 on 3 and 4, pair 2 on 2 and 5.

OK, so I have one 2 core lead with 6 way RJxx plugs with 2 pins connected -
2 and 5, i.e. just pair 2. No idea whether than counts a RJ11, RJ14,
or whatever.