I'm looking to get a torch and tanks for brazing and cutting for home
shop use. Though it's all I've used before, I'd like to avoid
acetylene if possible--from what I've read in the archives, the
alternatives are safer, they cut cleaner, and I don't need to gas weld
(been there and prefer brazing). But I don't know what the
compatibility is as far as equipment goes. I can find dozens of
oxy-acet torch sets (best deal is the Victor Advantage II set thru
Sam's club for $132, I think), but little for oxy-mapp/propylene.
There is a Harris set specifically for oxy-propylene, but it's $200+.
I understand oxy-mapp/propylene may need larger and/or special
tips--what sizes would I need to braze 1/16" to 1/4", and cut 1/8" to
1/2" (the Victor set comes w/ 0s for each)? How about compatibility
of the rubber hoses, seals, regulators...? Any guidance appreciated.

Thanks, David

David Malicky wrote:
I'm looking to get a torch and tanks for brazing and cutting for home
shop use. Though it's all I've used before, I'd like to avoid
acetylene if possible--from what I've read in the archives, the
alternatives are safer, they cut cleaner, and I don't need to gas weld
(been there and prefer brazing). But I don't know what the
compatibility is as far as equipment goes. I can find dozens of
oxy-acet torch sets (best deal is the Victor Advantage II set thru
Sam's club for $132, I think), but little for oxy-mapp/propylene.
There is a Harris set specifically for oxy-propylene, but it's $200+.
I understand oxy-mapp/propylene may need larger and/or special
tips--what sizes would I need to braze 1/16" to 1/4", and cut 1/8" to
1/2" (the Victor set comes w/ 0s for each)? How about compatibility
of the rubber hoses, seals, regulators...? Any guidance appreciated.

I have used MAPP, and now get "Propylene" the generic substitute
from the local gas supplier. MAPP is a trademark.

MAPP/Propylene is much easier to handle, it is stored as a liquid,
instead of a gas adsorbed on Acetone-saturated packing. Some people
say you can't weld with MAPP, I think it is possible, and the gas
supplier has a flyer describing how to set the flame properly
(it does look a little different than Ox/Acetylene). Although
the peak temperature is slightly lower, the caloric output per
gram of fuel/gas is quite a bit higher than Ox/Acetylene, so it is
supposed to actually provide more heat to the work.

I have not used it for cutting (way too expensive on the Oxygen)
but it will heat steel to orange-yellow temperatures, for bending,
forming, etc. It works quite well for brazing, and I have done
quite a bit of brazing with it.

I have a cheap Victor or Harris knock-off torch set, and use it with
no modifications at all. Hoses, tips, regulators, torch handle
and valves, etc. are all the original parts.

Jon

In article ,
Jon Elson wrote:

David Malicky wrote:
I'm looking to get a torch and tanks for brazing and cutting for home
shop use. Though it's all I've used before, I'd like to avoid
acetylene if possible--from what I've read in the archives, the
alternatives are safer, they cut cleaner, and I don't need to gas weld
(been there and prefer brazing). But I don't know what the
compatibility is as far as equipment goes. I can find dozens of
oxy-acet torch sets (best deal is the Victor Advantage II set thru
Sam's club for $132, I think), but little for oxy-mapp/propylene.
There is a Harris set specifically for oxy-propylene, but it's $200+.
I understand oxy-mapp/propylene may need larger and/or special
tips--what sizes would I need to braze 1/16" to 1/4", and cut 1/8" to
1/2" (the Victor set comes w/ 0s for each)? How about compatibility
of the rubber hoses, seals, regulators...? Any guidance appreciated.

I have used MAPP, and now get "Propylene" the generic substitute
from the local gas supplier. MAPP is a trademark.

MAPP/Propylene is much easier to handle, it is stored as a liquid,
instead of a gas adsorbed on Acetone-saturated packing. Some people
say you can't weld with MAPP, I think it is possible, and the gas
supplier has a flyer describing how to set the flame properly
(it does look a little different than Ox/Acetylene). Although
the peak temperature is slightly lower, the caloric output per
gram of fuel/gas is quite a bit higher than Ox/Acetylene, so it is
supposed to actually provide more heat to the work.

I have not used it for cutting (way too expensive on the Oxygen)
but it will heat steel to orange-yellow temperatures, for bending,
forming, etc. It works quite well for brazing, and I have done
quite a bit of brazing with it.

I have a cheap Victor or Harris knock-off torch set, and use it with
no modifications at all. Hoses, tips, regulators, torch handle
and valves, etc. are all the original parts.

Jon


As far as my knowledge goes, (And someone *please* check me if I'm wrong
here - I've worked almost exclusively with acetylene) all three are
"intercompatible" - Meaning parts/hoses/fittings/etc for one are just
fine with either of the others. If they posed a hazard to each other's
equipment, I'd be amazed if the fittings from one would work on another
- Different thread pitch or handedness, male vs. female on the fittings,
inside thread vs outside thread, which side of the connection is which
thread/hand/male/etc and so on, like other gasses have, to prevent
interconnection in incompatible or inappropriate configurations.

Try hooking a CO2 tank to an O2 manifold, as a ferinstance - Unless
somebody's mis-filling or modifying tanks, you shouldn't be able to get
it to happen without some level of cobbling it together that shouldn't
ever be attempted in the first place, since the fittings are (or at
least, they're *supposed* to be...) physically incompatible with each
other.

--
Don Bruder - - New Email policy in effect as of Feb. 21, 2004.
Short form: I'm trashing EVERY E-mail that doesn't contain a password in the
subject unless it comes from a "whitelisted" (pre-approved by me) address.
See http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd/main/contact.html for full details.

In article ,
says...


David Malicky wrote:
I'm looking to get a torch and tanks for brazing and cutting for home
shop use. Though it's all I've used before, I'd like to avoid
acetylene if possible--from what I've read in the archives, the
alternatives are safer, they cut cleaner, and I don't need to gas weld
(been there and prefer brazing). But I don't know what the
compatibility is as far as equipment goes. I can find dozens of
oxy-acet torch sets (best deal is the Victor Advantage II set thru
Sam's club for $132, I think), but little for oxy-mapp/propylene.
There is a Harris set specifically for oxy-propylene, but it's $200+.
I understand oxy-mapp/propylene may need larger and/or special
tips--what sizes would I need to braze 1/16" to 1/4", and cut 1/8" to
1/2" (the Victor set comes w/ 0s for each)? How about compatibility
of the rubber hoses, seals, regulators...? Any guidance appreciated.

I have used MAPP, and now get "Propylene" the generic substitute
from the local gas supplier. MAPP is a trademark.

MAPP/Propylene is much easier to handle, it is stored as a liquid,
instead of a gas adsorbed on Acetone-saturated packing. Some people
say you can't weld with MAPP, I think it is possible, and the gas
supplier has a flyer describing how to set the flame properly
(it does look a little different than Ox/Acetylene).

Hi, have you actually tried it? I have, and it's a very poor
substitute for acetylene. It works *very* well on brazing, heating and
cutting.



Although
the peak temperature is slightly lower, the caloric output per
gram of fuel/gas is quite a bit higher than Ox/Acetylene, so it is
supposed to actually provide more heat to the work.

The caloric output may be higher, but.. I've spent a lot of time
trying different pressures, tips, advice from my supplier (who doesn't
recommend this for welding). No luck.

Jim Kovar
Vulcan, Mi

You can use oxygen and avoid the acetylene by using a barbeque tank of
propane. You cannot cut with the regular oxy-acetylene cutting tip. You
will have to change to a fuel gas cutting tip. The two piece tips run less
than twenty dollars. I would recommend a double zero and a number one.
Cutting with propane is cleaner and more versatile than acetylene.
For brazing you can use the regular welding tips. They are hard to light up
but they will work. I would not make a habit of brazing with oxy-propane.
The heat is high enough in temperature but the heat tends to spread out more
than acetylene.
The conventional regulators, hoses, and torch handles will work on
propane. There are special rosebud heating tips for oxy-propane however the
oxy-acetylene rosebud will work with difficulty. Do not use a propane
rosebud on acetylene because the flame speed is too high and the torch will
back fire.
Randy

"David Malicky" wrote in message
om...
I'm looking to get a torch and tanks for brazing and cutting for home
shop use. Though it's all I've used before, I'd like to avoid
acetylene if possible--from what I've read in the archives, the
alternatives are safer, they cut cleaner, and I don't need to gas weld
(been there and prefer brazing). But I don't know what the
compatibility is as far as equipment goes. I can find dozens of
oxy-acet torch sets (best deal is the Victor Advantage II set thru
Sam's club for $132, I think), but little for oxy-mapp/propylene.
There is a Harris set specifically for oxy-propylene, but it's $200+.
I understand oxy-mapp/propylene may need larger and/or special
tips--what sizes would I need to braze 1/16" to 1/4", and cut 1/8" to
1/2" (the Victor set comes w/ 0s for each)? How about compatibility
of the rubber hoses, seals, regulators...? Any guidance appreciated.

Thanks, David

Jon Elson writes:

I have used MAPP, and now get "Propylene" the generic substitute
from the local gas supplier.

Lower case "propylene", is not MAPP, a trademark for a blend of
methylacetylene and propadiene. They are not necessarily substitutes,
depending on the application.

Oxygen is much more a temperature factor than the fuel. Since air is only
1/5 oxygen, you're diluting any flame 4 to 1 with cold inert gas.

I use mainly propane and oxygen for my glass work. I use it for brazing as
well. It works for me. If you're worried about code compliance you will
have to use" type T " welding hose for propane use. Most welding kits come
with a rubber lined hose marked " for Acetylene only". In the past I have
personally used that type with propane for more than 10 years without a
problem......other than a fire marshal coming in and saying "my book says
you need type T welding hose, so you'll have to change your hoses." I guess
it will leak someday, but not in the first 10 years anyway, that I know from
experience.

Randy Hansen
SC Glass Tech
Scam Diego, Comi-fornia

Hi,
You do use different cutting torch tips for Mapp, and LP/natural gas. I am
personally in the "you need acetylene to do a decent job welding" camp. Other
fuel gasses work OK for cutting and certainly for heating, but I also prefer
acetelyne for cutting -- and I do not do that much cutting so gas cost is not
that big of a factor.

If you should decide to go with an Airco cutting torch (quite available on
Ebay), I have a bunch of "new old stock" Mapp and LP torch tips I would be
interested in selling for a very good price. Email me if interested. Thanks.

Mill



I'm looking to get a torch and tanks for brazing and cutting for home
shop use. Though it's all I've used before, I'd like to avoid
acetylene if possible--from what I've read in the archives, the
alternatives are safer, they cut cleaner, and I don't need to gas weld
(been there and prefer brazing). But I don't know what the
compatibility is as far as equipment goes. I can find dozens of
oxy-acet torch sets (best deal is the Victor Advantage II set thru
Sam's club for $132, I think), but little for oxy-mapp/propylene.
There is a Harris set specifically for oxy-propylene, but it's $200+.
I understand oxy-mapp/propylene may need larger and/or special
tips--what sizes would I need to braze 1/16" to 1/4", and cut 1/8" to
1/2" (the Victor set comes w/ 0s for each)? How about compatibility
of the rubber hoses, seals, regulators...? Any guidance appreciated.

Thanks, David

On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 02:52:27 GMT, "Randy Zimmerman" wrote:
The conventional regulators, hoses, and torch handles will work on
propane.

Bad advice about the hose. There are two different types of hose. Type
R is for acetylene only. Propane will attack it, and you'll quickly have
dangerous leaks. There is a second type of hose marked "all fuels"
that's safe to use with propane.

Gary

(David Malicky) wrote in message . com...
I'm looking to get a torch and tanks for brazing and cutting for home
shop use. Though it's all I've used before, I'd like to avoid
acetylene if possible--from what I've read in the archives, the
alternatives are safer, they cut cleaner, and I don't need to gas weld
(been there and prefer brazing). But I don't know what the
compatibility is as far as equipment goes. I can find dozens of
oxy-acet torch sets (best deal is the Victor Advantage II set thru
Sam's club for $132, I think), but little for oxy-mapp/propylene.
There is a Harris set specifically for oxy-propylene, but it's $200+.
I understand oxy-mapp/propylene may need larger and/or special
tips--what sizes would I need to braze 1/16" to 1/4", and cut 1/8" to
1/2" (the Victor set comes w/ 0s for each)? How about compatibility
of the rubber hoses, seals, regulators...? Any guidance appreciated.

Thanks, David

You won't find cutting and welding kits with anything but oxyacetylene
tips. You can, however, get cutting and rosebud tips for your kit for
propane and MAPP from your local dealer. If you use those other fuel
gases, you'll have to get a different hose, the one supplied in those
kits is for acetylene only. Propane use will definitely degrade it.
You might want to check to see that the regulator diaphram will stand
up to other gases, too, some are elastomer, not stainless steel. You
might want to consider another regulator for the other gases anyway,
acetylene ones are limited to 15 lbs output for safety reasons.

As far as what tips you'll need, Victor supplies tip charts with
suggested cutting and welding thicknesses for each tip, these are also
available from your local welding supplier, gratis. You'll definitely
want different cutting tips, there's usually one supplied and that
will either be to large or too small for the job.

The tip info might be available on Victor's website, tip availability
definitely is. The welding suppliers have been known to cut deals if
you buy your whole outfit there, tanks included. They're depending on
your good will to keep coming back for refills. Doesn't hurt to ask
what kind of deal you can get for the whole works. Get the biggest
tanks you have room for and can transport, handling charges make up
most of the cost of refills.

Stan

If you can get the Victor Advantage II for $130.00 you better get it!
It is a very good Home/Hobbyist torch set I have it and the only thing
I don't like about it is the LP tips ( #3) are about $20 from MSC(
Will last a long time for home use). If you go to the next torch size
up the tips I've seen for about $5 but the torch set costs much much
more. Mine came with Grade T hose sow I whose set for LP use. Check
the hose grade and get a LP tip you should be good to go. My 2 cents.

Thanks, everyone, for your excellent advice. I didn't know the
distintions between hose types. I did some web searches and it
confirmed that "T" is good for everything and "R" is acetylene only
(apparantly for the bargain sets). Well, even if R is probably safe
I'll sleep better having T. Thanks, Rod, for the tip on the T hose in
your Advantage II set--that's good news (I'll check the one at Sam's).

Victor's website,
http://www.thermadyne.com/vec/litera...ex.asp?div=vec
doesn't have the Advantage II, but I called them and they said it uses
the 200 series regulators (like the "Performer"). Looks like the
regulators use neoprene diphragm whether they are for acetylene or
fuel, apparently compatible w/ both. Appears Victor puts T hose on
all their kits (p. 108 & 111).

Thanks again for everone's help!
David

David. If you get the Advantage II you will be all set accept for the
LP tip. All victor sets are fully compatible for Acetylene and all
other popular fulls.

The best way I've found to set the mixture is to get some sheet metal.
With the torch lit hole the tip against the sheet metal at 45% and
adjust it until you get the hottest flame. Works very good