On 08/09/18 12:21, Roger Hayter wrote:
Bob Eager wrote:

On Sat, 08 Sep 2018 11:16:49 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 08/09/18 11:12, Bob Eager wrote:
On Sat, 08 Sep 2018 10:56:51 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 08/09/18 08:08, WeeBob wrote:
On 2018-09-07 13:00, whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, 7 September 2018 12:26:15 UTC+1, NY wrote:

For destruction of data on an HDD,

Install windows ;-)


Lol!
actually for computers whose disk drives still function a live Linux
DVD/CD boot followed by a 'dd' command will, after an hour or so, have
erased the entire drive.

Well, sort of. It has been shown that a determined forensic expert can
often still recover data.


Well make it two hours and overwrite with another random pattern then.


The fact of the matter is that in practice that is MORE than good
enough. Only by - say - overwiting all 1s or all 0s can you preserve a
LITTLE information.

But if you are really worried about your data falling into the hands of
the NSA, you will alreday know this and be keeping it all on microfilm
anyway.

The edges of the tracks remain.

I'm not sure that is true with modern platter densities. I believe it
is much harder than it used to be.



The point is taht theh premise is that the data is written once to the
track edge, and then never again. And that is te 'secret' data that you
need to erase


Thats is frankly BULL****.


--
"And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch".

Gospel of St. Mathew 15:14

On 08/09/18 12:35, Fredxx wrote:
On 08/09/2018 12:21, Roger Hayter wrote:
Bob Eager wrote:

On Sat, 08 Sep 2018 11:16:49 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 08/09/18 11:12, Bob Eager wrote:
On Sat, 08 Sep 2018 10:56:51 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 08/09/18 08:08, WeeBob wrote:
On 2018-09-07 13:00, whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, 7 September 2018 12:26:15 UTC+1, NYÂ* wrote:

For destruction of data on an HDD,

Install windows ;-)


Lol!
actually for computers whose disk drives still function a live Linux
DVD/CD boot followed by a 'dd' command will, after an hour or so,
have
erased the entire drive.

Well, sort of. It has been shown that a determined forensic expert can
often still recover data.


Well make it two hours and overwrite with another random pattern then.


The fact of the matter is that in practice that is MORE than good
enough. Only by - say - overwiting all 1s or all 0s can you preserve a
LITTLE information.

But if you are really worried about your data falling into the hands of
the NSA, you will alreday know this and be keeping it all on microfilm
anyway.

The edges of the tracks remain.

I'm not sure that is true with modern platter densities.Â* I believe it
is much harder than it used to be.

I'm not so sure. The depth of a write into the disk and degree remanence
is dependent on the written pattern.
Â* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gutmann_method

One thing we seem to forget is that many disk technologies can cope with
bad sectors, and these are put to one side and un-eraseable and remain
potentially readable.

That is the first reasonable reason to smash the thing

Howver teh most written sectors are index tracks (FAT and te like). and
they dont conmtain information, just pointers to it.




--
Of what good are dead warriors? €¦ Warriors are those who desire battle
more than peace. Those who seek battle despite peace. Those who thump
their spears on the ground and talk of honor. Those who leap high the
battle dance and dream of glory €¦ The good of dead warriors, Mother, is
that they are dead.
Sheri S Tepper: The Awakeners.

On Sat, 08 Sep 2018 12:37:05 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 08/09/18 12:21, Roger Hayter wrote:
Bob Eager wrote:

On Sat, 08 Sep 2018 11:16:49 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 08/09/18 11:12, Bob Eager wrote:
On Sat, 08 Sep 2018 10:56:51 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 08/09/18 08:08, WeeBob wrote:
On 2018-09-07 13:00, whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, 7 September 2018 12:26:15 UTC+1, NY wrote:

For destruction of data on an HDD,

Install windows ;-)


Lol!
actually for computers whose disk drives still function a live
Linux DVD/CD boot followed by a 'dd' command will, after an hour or
so, have erased the entire drive.

Well, sort of. It has been shown that a determined forensic expert
can often still recover data.


Well make it two hours and overwrite with another random pattern
then.


The fact of the matter is that in practice that is MORE than good
enough. Only by - say - overwiting all 1s or all 0s can you preserve
a LITTLE information.

But if you are really worried about your data falling into the hands
of the NSA, you will alreday know this and be keeping it all on
microfilm anyway.

The edges of the tracks remain.

I'm not sure that is true with modern platter densities. I believe it
is much harder than it used to be.



The point is taht theh premise is that the data is written once to the
track edge, and then never again. And that is te 'secret' data that you
need to erase


Thats is frankly BULL****.

Never mind, dear.



--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On 08/09/18 12:55, Bob Eager wrote:
On Sat, 08 Sep 2018 12:37:05 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 08/09/18 12:21, Roger Hayter wrote:
Bob Eager wrote:

On Sat, 08 Sep 2018 11:16:49 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 08/09/18 11:12, Bob Eager wrote:
On Sat, 08 Sep 2018 10:56:51 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 08/09/18 08:08, WeeBob wrote:
On 2018-09-07 13:00, whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, 7 September 2018 12:26:15 UTC+1, NY wrote:

For destruction of data on an HDD,

Install windows ;-)


Lol!
actually for computers whose disk drives still function a live
Linux DVD/CD boot followed by a 'dd' command will, after an hour or
so, have erased the entire drive.

Well, sort of. It has been shown that a determined forensic expert
can often still recover data.


Well make it two hours and overwrite with another random pattern
then.


The fact of the matter is that in practice that is MORE than good
enough. Only by - say - overwiting all 1s or all 0s can you preserve
a LITTLE information.

But if you are really worried about your data falling into the hands
of the NSA, you will alreday know this and be keeping it all on
microfilm anyway.

The edges of the tracks remain.

I'm not sure that is true with modern platter densities. I believe it
is much harder than it used to be.



The point is taht theh premise is that the data is written once to the
track edge, and then never again. And that is te 'secret' data that you
need to erase


Thats is frankly BULL****.

Never mind, dear.



Dont like being wrong do you?


--
"Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They
always run out of other people's money. It's quite a characteristic of them"

Margaret Thatcher

"Bob Eager" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 08 Sep 2018 10:56:51 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 08/09/18 08:08, WeeBob wrote:
On 2018-09-07 13:00, whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, 7 September 2018 12:26:15 UTC+1, NY wrote:

For destruction of data on an HDD,

Install windows ;-)


Lol!
actually for computers whose disk drives still function a live Linux
DVD/CD boot followed by a 'dd' command will, after an hour or so, have
erased the entire drive.

Well, sort of. It has been shown that a determined forensic expert can
often still recover data.

That has not been shown.

"Fredxx" wrote in message
news
On 08/09/2018 12:21, Roger Hayter wrote:
Bob Eager wrote:

On Sat, 08 Sep 2018 11:16:49 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 08/09/18 11:12, Bob Eager wrote:
On Sat, 08 Sep 2018 10:56:51 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 08/09/18 08:08, WeeBob wrote:
On 2018-09-07 13:00, whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, 7 September 2018 12:26:15 UTC+1, NY wrote:

For destruction of data on an HDD,

Install windows ;-)


Lol!
actually for computers whose disk drives still function a live Linux
DVD/CD boot followed by a 'dd' command will, after an hour or so,
have
erased the entire drive.

Well, sort of. It has been shown that a determined forensic expert can
often still recover data.


Well make it two hours and overwrite with another random pattern then.


The fact of the matter is that in practice that is MORE than good
enough. Only by - say - overwiting all 1s or all 0s can you preserve a
LITTLE information.

But if you are really worried about your data falling into the hands of
the NSA, you will alreday know this and be keeping it all on microfilm
anyway.

The edges of the tracks remain.

I'm not sure that is true with modern platter densities. I believe it
is much harder than it used to be.

I'm not so sure. The depth of a write into the disk and degree remanence
is dependent on the written pattern.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gutmann_method

One thing we seem to forget is that many disk technologies can cope with
bad sectors, and these are put to one side and un-eraseable and remain
potentially readable.

But there are so few of them that have been used on modern
hard drives that there is **** all data in them now. I have just
2 in about 20TB of drive space.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
news
On 08/09/18 12:35, Fredxx wrote:
On 08/09/2018 12:21, Roger Hayter wrote:
Bob Eager wrote:

On Sat, 08 Sep 2018 11:16:49 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 08/09/18 11:12, Bob Eager wrote:
On Sat, 08 Sep 2018 10:56:51 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 08/09/18 08:08, WeeBob wrote:
On 2018-09-07 13:00, whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, 7 September 2018 12:26:15 UTC+1, NY wrote:

For destruction of data on an HDD,

Install windows ;-)


Lol!
actually for computers whose disk drives still function a live Linux
DVD/CD boot followed by a 'dd' command will, after an hour or so,
have
erased the entire drive.

Well, sort of. It has been shown that a determined forensic expert
can
often still recover data.


Well make it two hours and overwrite with another random pattern then.


The fact of the matter is that in practice that is MORE than good
enough. Only by - say - overwiting all 1s or all 0s can you preserve a
LITTLE information.

But if you are really worried about your data falling into the hands
of
the NSA, you will alreday know this and be keeping it all on microfilm
anyway.

The edges of the tracks remain.

I'm not sure that is true with modern platter densities. I believe it
is much harder than it used to be.

I'm not so sure. The depth of a write into the disk and degree remanence
is dependent on the written pattern.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gutmann_method

One thing we seem to forget is that many disk technologies can cope with
bad sectors, and these are put to one side and un-eraseable and remain
potentially readable.

That is the first reasonable reason to smash the thing

Not really given that I have just 2 in about 20TB of hard drive space.

Howver teh most written sectors are index tracks (FAT and te like). and
they dont conmtain information, just pointers to it.

But the bad sectors aren't necessarily the most used ones.

On 08/09/18 19:10, Josh Nack wrote:


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
news
On 08/09/18 12:35, Fredxx wrote:
On 08/09/2018 12:21, Roger Hayter wrote:
Bob Eager wrote:

On Sat, 08 Sep 2018 11:16:49 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 08/09/18 11:12, Bob Eager wrote:
On Sat, 08 Sep 2018 10:56:51 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 08/09/18 08:08, WeeBob wrote:
On 2018-09-07 13:00, whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, 7 September 2018 12:26:15 UTC+1, NYÂ* wrote:

For destruction of data on an HDD,

Install windows ;-)


Lol!
actually for computers whose disk drives still function a live
Linux
DVD/CD boot followed by a 'dd' command will, after an hour or
so, have
erased the entire drive.

Well, sort of. It has been shown that a determined forensic
expert can
often still recover data.


Well make it two hours and overwrite with another random pattern
then.


The fact of the matter is that in practice that is MORE than good
enough. Only by - say - overwiting all 1s or all 0s can you
preserve a
LITTLE information.

But if you are really worried about your data falling into the
hands of
the NSA, you will alreday know this and be keeping it all on
microfilm
anyway.

The edges of the tracks remain.

I'm not sure that is true with modern platter densities.Â* I believe it
is much harder than it used to be.

I'm not so sure. The depth of a write into the disk and degree
remanence is dependent on the written pattern.
Â*Â* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gutmann_method

One thing we seem to forget is that many disk technologies can cope
with bad sectors, and these are put to one side and un-eraseable and
remain potentially readable.

That is the first reasonable reason to smash the thing

Not really given that I have just 2 in about 20TB of hard drive space.

Howver teh most written sectors are index tracks (FAT and te like).
and they dont conmtain information, just pointers to it.

But the bad sectors aren't necessarily the most used ones.

No. but they most probably are.



--
"Nature does not give up the winter because people dislike the cold."

ۥ Confucius

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
news
On 08/09/18 19:10, Josh Nack wrote:


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
news
On 08/09/18 12:35, Fredxx wrote:
On 08/09/2018 12:21, Roger Hayter wrote:
Bob Eager wrote:

On Sat, 08 Sep 2018 11:16:49 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 08/09/18 11:12, Bob Eager wrote:
On Sat, 08 Sep 2018 10:56:51 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 08/09/18 08:08, WeeBob wrote:
On 2018-09-07 13:00, whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, 7 September 2018 12:26:15 UTC+1, NY wrote:

For destruction of data on an HDD,

Install windows ;-)


Lol!
actually for computers whose disk drives still function a live
Linux
DVD/CD boot followed by a 'dd' command will, after an hour or so,
have
erased the entire drive.

Well, sort of. It has been shown that a determined forensic expert
can
often still recover data.


Well make it two hours and overwrite with another random pattern
then.


The fact of the matter is that in practice that is MORE than good
enough. Only by - say - overwiting all 1s or all 0s can you preserve
a
LITTLE information.

But if you are really worried about your data falling into the hands
of
the NSA, you will alreday know this and be keeping it all on
microfilm
anyway.

The edges of the tracks remain.

I'm not sure that is true with modern platter densities. I believe it
is much harder than it used to be.

I'm not so sure. The depth of a write into the disk and degree
remanence is dependent on the written pattern.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gutmann_method

One thing we seem to forget is that many disk technologies can cope
with bad sectors, and these are put to one side and un-eraseable and
remain potentially readable.

That is the first reasonable reason to smash the thing

Not really given that I have just 2 in about 20TB of hard drive space.

Howver teh most written sectors are index tracks (FAT and te like). and
they dont conmtain information, just pointers to it.

But the bad sectors aren't necessarily the most used ones.

No. but they most probably are.

There is no wear effect and statistically they are much more
likely to not be in the FAT etc. None of mine are.

On Sun, 9 Sep 2018 04:04:35 +1000, cantankerous senile geezer Rot Speed
blabbered, again:


But there are so few of them that have been used on modern
hard drives that there is **** all data in them now. I have just
2 in about 20TB of drive space.

You just can't accept that nobody gives a **** what you got or haven't got,
you deluded senile oaf? LOL

--
Bill Wright addressing senile Ozzie cretin Rot Speed:
"Well you make up a lot of stuff and it's total ******** most of it."
MID:

On 08/09/2018 12:59, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 08/09/18 12:55, Bob Eager wrote:
On Sat, 08 Sep 2018 12:37:05 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 08/09/18 12:21, Roger Hayter wrote:
Bob Eager wrote:

On Sat, 08 Sep 2018 11:16:49 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 08/09/18 11:12, Bob Eager wrote:
On Sat, 08 Sep 2018 10:56:51 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 08/09/18 08:08, WeeBob wrote:
On 2018-09-07 13:00, whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, 7 September 2018 12:26:15 UTC+1, NYÂ* wrote:

For destruction of data on an HDD,

Install windows ;-)


Lol!
actually for computers whose disk drives still function a live
Linux DVD/CD boot followed by a 'dd' command will, after an hour or
so, have erased the entire drive.

Well, sort of. It has been shown that a determined forensic expert
can often still recover data.


Well make it two hours and overwrite with another random pattern
then.


The fact of the matter is that in practice that is MORE than good
enough. Only by - say - overwiting all 1s or all 0s can you preserve
a LITTLE information.

But if you are really worried about your data falling into the hands
of the NSA, you will alreday know this and be keeping it all on
microfilm anyway.

The edges of the tracks remain.

I'm not sure that is true with modern platter densities.Â* I believe it
is much harder than it used to be.



The point is taht theh premise is that the data is written once to the
track edge, and then never again. And that is te 'secret' data that you
need to erase


Thats is frankly BULL****.

Never mind, dear.



Dont like being wrong do you?



I'm more concerned about the 60-odd thefts/loss of memory sticks
hard drives and entire laptops from MOD premises complete with
intact data.

On 07/09/2018 22:53, Max Demian wrote:

....compatible (PATA/SATA); right plugs/sockets for data and power;
*and* the HDD has to be working. Maybe it was removed as it was buggered.


My guess is that you can throw a buggered disc away, *ALMOST* certain
that nobody is going to attempt data recovery. However, there are a few
things you can do to make that even harder, and hitting the thing with a
big hammer is one of them.

The largest disc I have thrown away was only 3.2GB, so there was no
point in securely wiping it, rather than just hitting it with a lump
hammer. YMMV, especially if you don't have a big hammer handy.

On 09/09/18 14:01, Andrew wrote:
On 08/09/2018 12:59, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 08/09/18 12:55, Bob Eager wrote:
On Sat, 08 Sep 2018 12:37:05 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 08/09/18 12:21, Roger Hayter wrote:
Bob Eager wrote:

On Sat, 08 Sep 2018 11:16:49 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 08/09/18 11:12, Bob Eager wrote:
On Sat, 08 Sep 2018 10:56:51 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 08/09/18 08:08, WeeBob wrote:
On 2018-09-07 13:00, whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, 7 September 2018 12:26:15 UTC+1, NYÂ* wrote:

For destruction of data on an HDD,

Install windows ;-)


Lol!
actually for computers whose disk drives still function a live
Linux DVD/CD boot followed by a 'dd' command will, after an
hour or
so, have erased the entire drive.

Well, sort of. It has been shown that a determined forensic expert
can often still recover data.


Well make it two hours and overwrite with another random pattern
then.


The fact of the matter is that in practice that is MORE than good
enough. Only by - say - overwiting all 1s or all 0s can you preserve
a LITTLE information.

But if you are really worried about your data falling into the hands
of the NSA, you will alreday know this and be keeping it all on
microfilm anyway.

The edges of the tracks remain.

I'm not sure that is true with modern platter densities.Â* I believe it
is much harder than it used to be.



The point is taht theh premise is that the data is written once to the
track edge, and then never again. And that is te 'secret' data that you
need to erase


Thats is frankly BULL****.

Never mind, dear.



Dont like being wrong do you?



I'm more concerned about the 60-odd thefts/loss of memory sticks
hard drives and entire laptops from MOD premises complete with
intact data.

Since when have we been talking about MOD data?

Obviously those get crushed.

And if they get stolen befierhand its an issue, But it is a straw man.

We were talking about a normal consumer user's data.




--
In todays liberal progressive conflict-free education system, everyone
gets full Marx.

"Andrew" wrote in message
news
On 08/09/2018 12:59, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 08/09/18 12:55, Bob Eager wrote:
On Sat, 08 Sep 2018 12:37:05 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 08/09/18 12:21, Roger Hayter wrote:
Bob Eager wrote:

On Sat, 08 Sep 2018 11:16:49 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 08/09/18 11:12, Bob Eager wrote:
On Sat, 08 Sep 2018 10:56:51 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 08/09/18 08:08, WeeBob wrote:
On 2018-09-07 13:00, whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, 7 September 2018 12:26:15 UTC+1, NY wrote:

For destruction of data on an HDD,

Install windows ;-)


Lol!
actually for computers whose disk drives still function a live
Linux DVD/CD boot followed by a 'dd' command will, after an hour
or
so, have erased the entire drive.

Well, sort of. It has been shown that a determined forensic expert
can often still recover data.


Well make it two hours and overwrite with another random pattern
then.


The fact of the matter is that in practice that is MORE than good
enough. Only by - say - overwiting all 1s or all 0s can you preserve
a LITTLE information.

But if you are really worried about your data falling into the hands
of the NSA, you will alreday know this and be keeping it all on
microfilm anyway.

The edges of the tracks remain.

I'm not sure that is true with modern platter densities. I believe it
is much harder than it used to be.



The point is taht theh premise is that the data is written once to the
track edge, and then never again. And that is te 'secret' data that you
need to erase


Thats is frankly BULL****.

Never mind, dear.



Dont like being wrong do you?



I'm more concerned about the 60-odd thefts/loss of memory sticks
hard drives and entire laptops from MOD premises complete with
intact data.

I'm not given how completely irrelevant the MOD is now.

So what if one of them has the plans for the new aircraft carriers.