MrCheerful Wrote in message:
On 28/04/2018 14:38, dennis@home wrote:
On 28/04/2018 12:54, The Other Mike wrote:
On Sat, 28 Apr 2018 11:23:10 +0100, "dennis@home"
wrote:

On 28/04/2018 10:47, Oliver wrote:
On 27/04/2018 20:42, Chris wrote:
If I go to a Volvo main dealer they'll take me to the cleaners for
this I
would imagine, based on previous experiences, so I'm determined to do
this myself if it's at all possible!

Has anyone ever had to turn off an SRS airbag fault tell-tale? There
might or might not be a genuine fault, but I don't care either way.
Being
of a certain age I just want the warning got rid of. The car is a 2008
Volvo V70 if that makes any difference.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/caradvice/honestjohn/9750860/Quick-fix-for-faulty-airbag-light.html





Do you trust anyone that posts cr@p like this..

"A very useful tip, thank you. Before fiddling with the connector, you
need to leave the car switched off for half an hour to discharge any
residual current in the electrics. Otherwise, you might trigger the
airbag. "

Maybe someone wants to ask him what this residual electricity is and
where it goes after 30 minutes?

I suppose the specific warnings in car manufacturers own service
literature for the past 30+ years stating similar precautions before
woring on any part of the airbag system are invalid too?


Want to post a link to one that says 30 minutes?





"the airbag control system is designed to remain operational for up to
30 minutes after the battery has been disconnected. "

https://www.pelicanparts.com/techart...eplacement.htm


Interesting, but is that an authoritative source? I really can't
think of a reasonable scenario where keeping an airbag "live"
for that long after loss of battery power makes any sense at
all.

Tim
--

"MrCheerful" wrote in message
...
On 28/04/2018 11:23, dennis@home wrote:
On 28/04/2018 10:47, Oliver wrote:
On 27/04/2018 20:42, Chris wrote:
If I go to a Volvo main dealer they'll take me to the cleaners for this
I
would imagine, based on previous experiences, so I'm determined to do
this myself if it's at all possible!

Has anyone ever had to turn off an SRS airbag fault tell-tale? There
might or might not be a genuine fault, but I don't care either way.
Being
of a certain age I just want the warning got rid of. The car is a 2008
Volvo V70 if that makes any difference.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/caradvice/honestjohn/9750860/Quick-fix-for-faulty-airbag-light.html



Do you trust anyone that posts cr@p like this..

"A very useful tip, thank you. Before fiddling with the connector, you
need to leave the car switched off for half an hour to discharge any
residual current in the electrics. Otherwise, you might trigger the
airbag. "

Maybe someone wants to ask him what this residual electricity is and
where it goes after 30 minutes?

Have you ever heard of a capacitor?

None of those with enough voltage on them
to bite you in the airbag system of a car.

On 28/04/2018 20:30, Rod Speed wrote:


"MrCheerful" wrote in message
...
On 28/04/2018 11:23, dennis@home wrote:
On 28/04/2018 10:47, Oliver wrote:
On 27/04/2018 20:42, Chris wrote:
If I go to a Volvo main dealer they'll take me to the cleaners for
this I
would imagine, based on previous experiences, so I'm determined to do
this myself if it's at all possible!

Has anyone ever had to turn off an SRS airbag fault tell-tale? There
might or might not be a genuine fault, but I don't care either way.
Being
of a certain age I just want the warning got rid of. The car is a 2008
Volvo V70 if that makes any difference.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/caradvice/honestjohn/9750860/Quick-fix-for-faulty-airbag-light.html




Do you trust anyone that posts cr@p like this..

"A very useful tip, thank you. Before fiddling with the connector,
you need to leave the car switched off for half an hour to discharge
any residual current in the electrics. Otherwise, you might trigger
the airbag. "

Maybe someone wants to ask him what this residual electricity is and
where it goes after 30 minutes?

Have you ever heard of a capacitor?

None of those with enough voltage on them
to bite you in the airbag system of a car.

No-one has mentioned getting a shock from one, they have enough energy
to fire the airbag, which is the very real danger, an airbag has plenty
enough energy to kill or maim an unbelted person.

On 28/04/2018 15:29, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sat, 28 Apr 2018 14:35:06 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

Do you have a clue about how much energy is needed to detonate the
explosives in an airbag?

Why don't you tell us, since you're such an expert?




I'm not the one claiming the residual electrical energy will set them
off, why don' t you explain how much and from where?

On 28/04/2018 16:18, John Rumm wrote:
On 28/04/2018 13:58, Roger Hayter wrote:
dennis@home wrote:

On 28/04/2018 12:25, Roger Hayter wrote:

I thought everyone knew that.

I am not sure that the term "roadworthy" is well-defined in law.* For
instance, while it may be illegal to drive a car which has no MOT, I am
less convinced that it is illegal to drive a car with a valid MOT that
has a defective airbag warning light, whether or not a new MOT in the
currnency of the old has drawn this to your attention.* This may
well be
a matter of fact rather than of dogmatic opinion.




http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/75

You may note that it includes the terms that it is dangerous to you or
anyone else. This includes things like faulty safety systems like brakes
and airbags. Only a part of a system has to be faulty to be
unroadworthy, like the warning lights being on or not working.

That section relates to selling a vehicle.** You want section 42 of the
same act which makes it an offence to drive a care which fails to meet
*any* particular one of the construction and use regulations.** But you
still need to prove (rather than merely assert) that the failure of a
airbag warning light amounts to a breach of the construction and use
regulations.* I agree it is quite likely, but that would not be
sufficient basis for prosecution until the relevant clause in the regs
is found.

Given that its acceptable to disable an airbag (say when you have an
infant in a read facing seat on the passenger seat), then I would be
surprised if driving with a non functional airbag is actually an offence.



There is a difference between a faulty system and one being used as
intended. Suppose the fault caused the airbag to go off while there was
a child and seat there?

On 28/04/2018 19:28, Tim+ wrote:
MrCheerful Wrote in message:
On 28/04/2018 14:38, dennis@home wrote:
On 28/04/2018 12:54, The Other Mike wrote:
On Sat, 28 Apr 2018 11:23:10 +0100, "dennis@home"
wrote:

On 28/04/2018 10:47, Oliver wrote:
On 27/04/2018 20:42, Chris wrote:
If I go to a Volvo main dealer they'll take me to the cleaners for
this I
would imagine, based on previous experiences, so I'm determined to do
this myself if it's at all possible!

Has anyone ever had to turn off an SRS airbag fault tell-tale? There
might or might not be a genuine fault, but I don't care either way.
Being
of a certain age I just want the warning got rid of. The car is a 2008
Volvo V70 if that makes any difference.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/caradvice/honestjohn/9750860/Quick-fix-for-faulty-airbag-light.html





Do you trust anyone that posts cr@p like this..

"A very useful tip, thank you. Before fiddling with the connector, you
need to leave the car switched off for half an hour to discharge any
residual current in the electrics. Otherwise, you might trigger the
airbag. "

Maybe someone wants to ask him what this residual electricity is and
where it goes after 30 minutes?

I suppose the specific warnings in car manufacturers own service
literature for the past 30+ years stating similar precautions before
woring on any part of the airbag system are invalid too?


Want to post a link to one that says 30 minutes?





"the airbag control system is designed to remain operational for up to
30 minutes after the battery has been disconnected. "

https://www.pelicanparts.com/techart...eplacement.htm


Interesting, but is that an authoritative source? I really can't
think of a reasonable scenario where keeping an airbag "live"
for that long after loss of battery power makes any sense at
all.

Tim


He asked for a link that said thirty minutes. It seems over cautious,
but working on it earlier could be a bit like Russian roulette.

On 28/04/2018 16:25, John Rumm wrote:
On 28/04/2018 14:46, dennis@home wrote:
On 28/04/2018 12:54, The Other Mike wrote:
On Fri, 27 Apr 2018 22:46:50 +0100, "dennis@home"
wrote:

Do you think its legal to drive a car that you know will fail the MOT?

Yes it is legal

They can prove you know if the fault has been cleared without the
diagnostics being run.

Would love to know how anyone would actually perform this action

Unless you know why it came on you don't know if the
airbag will deploy when it should or if it will deploy when it
shouldn't. You would look pretty stupid if it went off while you were
doing 70 on the motorway or leaning over to clean the screen.

The built in precautions to prevent accidental deployment of an airbag
also ensure intentional deployment


Its faulty, the light is/has been on, so what you just said doesn't
apply or even make sense. That is the whole point, you do not have a
clue as to what will happen when the system has/is indicating a fault.
It may fail to go off when it should, it may go off at some random
point, it may even work as expected.

I would expect any safety critical design to fail safe...

For example I had a dodgy sensor on one car with ABS. If you hit a
pothole with the rear offside wheel it would cause the ABS warning light
to come on. At that point the ABS system as a whole was then inhibited,
and the breaking system reverted to a normal non ABS one. A design
decision, that elected to possible disable the breaks entirely on
detection of a fault, would hopefully not get through a design review!




Design covers faults that they can predict, not ones they can't.
So a safety critical system may identify that there is a fault but may
not be able to safely "fix" it.
Maybe that's why the law requires you to get it checked and fixed?
Maybe its the law being an ass?

On 28/04/2018 17:24, The Other Mike wrote:
On Sat, 28 Apr 2018 14:46:49 +0100, "dennis@home"
wrote:

On 28/04/2018 12:54, The Other Mike wrote:
On Fri, 27 Apr 2018 22:46:50 +0100, "dennis@home"
wrote:

Do you think its legal to drive a car that you know will fail the MOT?

Yes it is legal

They can prove you know if the fault has been cleared without the
diagnostics being run.

Would love to know how anyone would actually perform this action

Unless you know why it came on you don't know if the
airbag will deploy when it should or if it will deploy when it
shouldn't. You would look pretty stupid if it went off while you were
doing 70 on the motorway or leaning over to clean the screen.

The built in precautions to prevent accidental deployment of an airbag
also ensure intentional deployment


Its faulty, the light is/has been on, so what you just said doesn't
apply or even make sense. That is the whole point, you do not have a
clue as to what will happen when the system has/is indicating a fault.
It may fail to go off when it should, it may go off at some random
point, it may even work as expected. Clearing the warning doesn't make
it safe unless it also passes the tests, ie. its unsafe and therefore
illegal under UK law. Its just as illegal as havining spiky bits of
metal sticking out of a car.

It's clear you haven't got a clue about how an airbag operates, how
its triggering mechanisms are monitored, how faults are reported and,
well lets face it everything about airbags.




Its clear that you don't have a clue! But lets not let that stop you
from content free posts. Are you huge's alter ego?

On 28/04/2018 21:18, dennis@home wrote:
On 28/04/2018 15:29, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sat, 28 Apr 2018 14:35:06 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

Do you have a clue about how much energy is needed to detonate the
explosives in an airbag?

Why don't you tell us, since you're such an expert?




I'm not the one claiming the residual electrical energy will set them
off, why don' t you explain how much and from where?


a quick google says that 3-4 volts can set one off.

On 28/04/2018 19:28, Tim+ wrote:
MrCheerful Wrote in message:
On 28/04/2018 14:38, dennis@home wrote:
On 28/04/2018 12:54, The Other Mike wrote:
On Sat, 28 Apr 2018 11:23:10 +0100, "dennis@home"
wrote:

On 28/04/2018 10:47, Oliver wrote:
On 27/04/2018 20:42, Chris wrote:
If I go to a Volvo main dealer they'll take me to the cleaners for
this I
would imagine, based on previous experiences, so I'm determined to do
this myself if it's at all possible!

Has anyone ever had to turn off an SRS airbag fault tell-tale? There
might or might not be a genuine fault, but I don't care either way.
Being
of a certain age I just want the warning got rid of. The car is a 2008
Volvo V70 if that makes any difference.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/caradvice/honestjohn/9750860/Quick-fix-for-faulty-airbag-light.html





Do you trust anyone that posts cr@p like this..

"A very useful tip, thank you. Before fiddling with the connector, you
need to leave the car switched off for half an hour to discharge any
residual current in the electrics. Otherwise, you might trigger the
airbag. "

Maybe someone wants to ask him what this residual electricity is and
where it goes after 30 minutes?

I suppose the specific warnings in car manufacturers own service
literature for the past 30+ years stating similar precautions before
woring on any part of the airbag system are invalid too?


Want to post a link to one that says 30 minutes?





"the airbag control system is designed to remain operational for up to
30 minutes after the battery has been disconnected. "

https://www.pelicanparts.com/techart...eplacement.htm


Interesting, but is that an authoritative source? I really can't
think of a reasonable scenario where keeping an airbag "live"
for that long after loss of battery power makes any sense at
all.

Tim


It doesn't, its are covering by people that don't have a clue.

On 28/04/2018 21:30, MrCheerful wrote:
On 28/04/2018 21:18, dennis@home wrote:
On 28/04/2018 15:29, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sat, 28 Apr 2018 14:35:06 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

Do you have a clue about how much energy is needed to detonate the
explosives in an airbag?

Why don't you tell us, since you're such an expert?




I'm not the one claiming the residual electrical energy will set them
off, why don' t you explain how much and from where?


a quick google says that 3-4 volts can set one off.

How many joules?
Where from?

On 28/04/2018 14:50, dennis@home wrote:
On 28/04/2018 11:33, Fredxx wrote:
On 28/04/2018 10:52, dennis@home wrote:
On 28/04/2018 09:41, Nick Finnigan wrote:

Â*Â*(Engine diagnostic or service warning light is usually easier to
clear).


You don't normally need any equipment to clear a service warning light.
In most cases its hold a particular button(s) in while turning the
ignition on/off. Google will probably tell you which if the
dealer/manual won't.

On the case of an airbag it can give a code indicating the sensor or
the problem at hand.
True but that isn't a service warning light, its a fault indicator that
requires service.

and a code will tell you which item needs "servicing".

On 28/04/2018 15:32, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sat, 28 Apr 2018 14:53:13 +0100, Harry Bloomfield wrote:

dennis@home explained on 28/04/2018 :
29 minutes later?

It is technically possible to enable them to still fire days later, it
is also possible to have them still able to fire at 29 minutes later,
but not at 30 minutes later.

The manual for mine (not a Volvo) states to leave it for 5 minutes after
disconnecting the battery. And they've probably added a couple of extra
minutes to get to this figure just to be on the safe side.

Sshh, don't tell dennis.

On 28/04/2018 21:52, Fredxx wrote:
On 28/04/2018 14:50, dennis@home wrote:
On 28/04/2018 11:33, Fredxx wrote:
On 28/04/2018 10:52, dennis@home wrote:
On 28/04/2018 09:41, Nick Finnigan wrote:

Â*Â*(Engine diagnostic or service warning light is usually easier to
clear).


You don't normally need any equipment to clear a service warning light.
In most cases its hold a particular button(s) in while turning the
ignition on/off. Google will probably tell you which if the
dealer/manual won't.

On the case of an airbag it can give a code indicating the sensor or
the problem at hand.
True but that isn't a service warning light, its a fault indicator
that requires service.

and a code will tell you which item needs "servicing".

Who gives a ****?

On 28/04/2018 21:54, MrCheerful wrote:
On 28/04/2018 21:52, Fredxx wrote:
On 28/04/2018 14:50, dennis@home wrote:
On 28/04/2018 11:33, Fredxx wrote:
On 28/04/2018 10:52, dennis@home wrote:
On 28/04/2018 09:41, Nick Finnigan wrote:

Â*Â*(Engine diagnostic or service warning light is usually easier to
clear).


You don't normally need any equipment to clear a service warning
light.
In most cases its hold a particular button(s) in while turning the
ignition on/off. Google will probably tell you which if the
dealer/manual won't.

On the case of an airbag it can give a code indicating the sensor or
the problem at hand.
True but that isn't a service warning light, its a fault indicator
that requires service.

and a code will tell you which item needs "servicing".

Who gives a ****?

apologies, that was meant for the question above.

On 28/04/2018 21:41, dennis@home wrote:
On 28/04/2018 21:30, MrCheerful wrote:
On 28/04/2018 21:18, dennis@home wrote:
On 28/04/2018 15:29, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sat, 28 Apr 2018 14:35:06 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

Do you have a clue about how much energy is needed to detonate the
explosives in an airbag?

Why don't you tell us, since you're such an expert?




I'm not the one claiming the residual electrical energy will set them
off, why don' t you explain how much and from where?


a quick google says that 3-4 volts can set one off.

How many joules?
Where from?


Who gives a ****?

On 28/04/2018 21:54, MrCheerful wrote:
On 28/04/2018 21:52, Fredxx wrote:
On 28/04/2018 14:50, dennis@home wrote:
On 28/04/2018 11:33, Fredxx wrote:
On 28/04/2018 10:52, dennis@home wrote:
On 28/04/2018 09:41, Nick Finnigan wrote:

Â*Â*(Engine diagnostic or service warning light is usually easier to
clear).


You don't normally need any equipment to clear a service warning
light.
In most cases its hold a particular button(s) in while turning the
ignition on/off. Google will probably tell you which if the
dealer/manual won't.

On the case of an airbag it can give a code indicating the sensor or
the problem at hand.
True but that isn't a service warning light, its a fault indicator
that requires service.

and a code will tell you which item needs "servicing".

Who gives a ****?

Recently it was as simple as the reader telling me to change a specific
sensor. 10 minutes to put out a light. It took longer to source the
component.

Your point?

On 28/04/2018 21:55, MrCheerful wrote:
On 28/04/2018 21:54, MrCheerful wrote:
On 28/04/2018 21:52, Fredxx wrote:
On 28/04/2018 14:50, dennis@home wrote:
On 28/04/2018 11:33, Fredxx wrote:
On 28/04/2018 10:52, dennis@home wrote:
On 28/04/2018 09:41, Nick Finnigan wrote:

Â*Â*(Engine diagnostic or service warning light is usually easier
to clear).


You don't normally need any equipment to clear a service warning
light.
In most cases its hold a particular button(s) in while turning the
ignition on/off. Google will probably tell you which if the
dealer/manual won't.

On the case of an airbag it can give a code indicating the sensor
or the problem at hand.
True but that isn't a service warning light, its a fault indicator
that requires service.

and a code will tell you which item needs "servicing".

Who gives a ****?

apologies, that was meant for the question above.

No problem, it did seem out of character. Apologies for an abrupt reply
below.

On 28/04/2018 21:18, dennis@home wrote:
On 28/04/2018 15:29, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sat, 28 Apr 2018 14:35:06 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

Do you have a clue about how much energy is needed to detonate the
explosives in an airbag?

Why don't you tell us, since you're such an expert?




I'm not the one claiming the residual electrical energy will set them
off, why don' t you explain how much and from where?

That's a bit rich, how about telling us the legislation that makes it
illegal to drive a car with the ABS light disabled.

On Sat, 28 Apr 2018 21:28:29 +0100, "dennis@home"
wrote:

On 28/04/2018 17:24, The Other Mike wrote:
On Sat, 28 Apr 2018 14:46:49 +0100, "dennis@home"
wrote:

On 28/04/2018 12:54, The Other Mike wrote:
On Fri, 27 Apr 2018 22:46:50 +0100, "dennis@home"
wrote:

Do you think its legal to drive a car that you know will fail the MOT?

Yes it is legal

They can prove you know if the fault has been cleared without the
diagnostics being run.

Would love to know how anyone would actually perform this action

Unless you know why it came on you don't know if the
airbag will deploy when it should or if it will deploy when it
shouldn't. You would look pretty stupid if it went off while you were
doing 70 on the motorway or leaning over to clean the screen.

The built in precautions to prevent accidental deployment of an airbag
also ensure intentional deployment


Its faulty, the light is/has been on, so what you just said doesn't
apply or even make sense. That is the whole point, you do not have a
clue as to what will happen when the system has/is indicating a fault.
It may fail to go off when it should, it may go off at some random
point, it may even work as expected. Clearing the warning doesn't make
it safe unless it also passes the tests, ie. its unsafe and therefore
illegal under UK law. Its just as illegal as havining spiky bits of
metal sticking out of a car.

It's clear you haven't got a clue about how an airbag operates, how
its triggering mechanisms are monitored, how faults are reported and,
well lets face it everything about airbags.




Its clear that you don't have a clue! But lets not let that stop you
from content free posts. Are you huge's alter ego?


It's a safety critical system, clearing a fault code by plugging in a
diagnostic tool (either the official one or an aftermarket one) does
not stop the constant checking of system integrity. That unchanged
functionality is by specific design.

By clearing a fault code you do not make the system unstable and non
compliant with any type approval or Construction and Use legislation.

If the vehicle undergoes another ignition off followed by an ignition
on event it will initiate an airbag check at which point the airbag
fault light and a fault code will be set again.

I know for certain some airbag ECU's plus some ABS ECU's are hard
coded with separate PROM's or if integrated with the processor they
used an on chip OTP or masked PROM area of memory. In the case of the
former nothing you do short of aggressively removing some very thick
conformal coating, desoldering the PROM, reverse engineering and
substituting new firmware with the correct checksum can ever alter the
configuration of that ECU. In the case of the latter it will be
effectively impossible.

Every airbag related connector in my experience is colour coded, with
two means of pin backout prevention, with a means of ensuring positive
engagement and a means of preventing connector separation by tugging
on the wiring or the two halves of the connector. The manufacturers
take this subject very seriously.

But despite that it's extremely easy to set an airbag fault code if
you perform work on any part of the airbag system without suitable
upfront actions, those might just be battery disconnection but could
also include the separation of specific electrical connectors.
Removing a steering wheel or a seat without those precautions can very
easily set an airbag fault light and a fault code, clearing that code
by recognised means DOES NOT make the vehicle unsafe.

On 28/04/2018 21:52, Fredxx wrote:
On 28/04/2018 14:50, dennis@home wrote:
On 28/04/2018 11:33, Fredxx wrote:
On 28/04/2018 10:52, dennis@home wrote:
On 28/04/2018 09:41, Nick Finnigan wrote:

Â*Â*(Engine diagnostic or service warning light is usually easier to
clear).


You don't normally need any equipment to clear a service warning light.
In most cases its hold a particular button(s) in while turning the
ignition on/off. Google will probably tell you which if the
dealer/manual won't.

On the case of an airbag it can give a code indicating the sensor or
the problem at hand.
True but that isn't a service warning light, its a fault indicator
that requires service.

and a code will tell you which item needs "servicing".

*May* tell you what needs servicing.
You haven't had much experience with car maintenance have you?

On 28/04/2018 21:57, MrCheerful wrote:
On 28/04/2018 21:41, dennis@home wrote:
On 28/04/2018 21:30, MrCheerful wrote:
On 28/04/2018 21:18, dennis@home wrote:
On 28/04/2018 15:29, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sat, 28 Apr 2018 14:35:06 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

Do you have a clue about how much energy is needed to detonate the
explosives in an airbag?

Why don't you tell us, since you're such an expert?




I'm not the one claiming the residual electrical energy will set
them off, why don' t you explain how much and from where?


a quick google says that 3-4 volts can set one off.

How many joules?
Where from?


Who gives a ****?

You claim 3-4 volts will detonate an airbag but its not the volts that
does it but, you don't give a **** as long as you can give an answer
however wrong it is.

On 28/04/2018 22:24, Fredxx wrote:
On 28/04/2018 21:18, dennis@home wrote:
On 28/04/2018 15:29, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sat, 28 Apr 2018 14:35:06 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

Do you have a clue about how much energy is needed to detonate the
explosives in an airbag?

Why don't you tell us, since you're such an expert?




I'm not the one claiming the residual electrical energy will set them
off, why don' t you explain how much and from where?

That's a bit rich, how about telling us the legislation that makes it
illegal to drive a car with the ABS light disabled.



The specific details have alrteady been given in this thread even if I
got the wrong section it was corrected by the following poster.
Don't you read stuff that proves you wrong? must be a brexiteer, they do
that all the time.

On 28/04/2018 21:53, Fredxx wrote:
On 28/04/2018 15:32, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sat, 28 Apr 2018 14:53:13 +0100, Harry Bloomfield wrote:

dennis@home explained on 28/04/2018 :
29 minutes later?

It is technically possible to enable them to still fire days later, it
is also possible to have them still able to fire at 29 minutes later,
but not at 30 minutes later.

The manual for mine (not a Volvo) states to leave it for 5 minutes after
disconnecting the battery. And they've probably added a couple of extra
minutes to get to this figure just to be on the safe side.

Sshh, don't tell dennis.

You still haven't quoted a manual that says 30 minutes or anywhere near
that.

On 28/04/2018 22:51, The Other Mike wrote:
On Sat, 28 Apr 2018 21:28:29 +0100, "dennis@home"
wrote:

On 28/04/2018 17:24, The Other Mike wrote:
On Sat, 28 Apr 2018 14:46:49 +0100, "dennis@home"
wrote:

On 28/04/2018 12:54, The Other Mike wrote:
On Fri, 27 Apr 2018 22:46:50 +0100, "dennis@home"
wrote:

Do you think its legal to drive a car that you know will fail the MOT?

Yes it is legal

They can prove you know if the fault has been cleared without the
diagnostics being run.

Would love to know how anyone would actually perform this action

Unless you know why it came on you don't know if the
airbag will deploy when it should or if it will deploy when it
shouldn't. You would look pretty stupid if it went off while you were
doing 70 on the motorway or leaning over to clean the screen.

The built in precautions to prevent accidental deployment of an airbag
also ensure intentional deployment


Its faulty, the light is/has been on, so what you just said doesn't
apply or even make sense. That is the whole point, you do not have a
clue as to what will happen when the system has/is indicating a fault.
It may fail to go off when it should, it may go off at some random
point, it may even work as expected. Clearing the warning doesn't make
it safe unless it also passes the tests, ie. its unsafe and therefore
illegal under UK law. Its just as illegal as havining spiky bits of
metal sticking out of a car.

It's clear you haven't got a clue about how an airbag operates, how
its triggering mechanisms are monitored, how faults are reported and,
well lets face it everything about airbags.




Its clear that you don't have a clue! But lets not let that stop you
from content free posts. Are you huge's alter ego?


It's a safety critical system, clearing a fault code by plugging in a
diagnostic tool (either the official one or an aftermarket one) does
not stop the constant checking of system integrity. That unchanged
functionality is by specific design.

By clearing a fault code you do not make the system unstable and non
compliant with any type approval or Construction and Use legislation.

Just in case you have forgotten the OP didn't want to clear the code he
wanted to disable it!

Just so you understand that is not the same as clearing the code and
running diagnostics.

On 28/04/2018 23:12, dennis@home wrote:
On 28/04/2018 22:51, The Other Mike wrote:
On Sat, 28 Apr 2018 21:28:29 +0100, "dennis@home"
wrote:

On 28/04/2018 17:24, The Other Mike wrote:
On Sat, 28 Apr 2018 14:46:49 +0100, "dennis@home"
wrote:

On 28/04/2018 12:54, The Other Mike wrote:
On Fri, 27 Apr 2018 22:46:50 +0100, "dennis@home"
wrote:

Do you think its legal to drive a car that you know will fail the
MOT?

Yes it is legal

They can prove you know if the fault has been cleared without the
diagnostics being run.

Would love to know how anyone would actually perform this action

Unless you know why it came on you don't know if the
airbag will deploy when it should or if it will deploy when it
shouldn't. You would look pretty stupid if it went off while you
were
doing 70 on the motorway or leaning over to clean the screen.

The built in precautions to prevent accidental deployment of an
airbag
also ensure intentional deployment


Its faulty, the light is/has been on, so what you just said doesn't
apply or even make sense. That is the whole point, you do not have a
clue as to what will happen when the system has/is indicating a fault.
It may fail to go off when it should, it may go off at some random
point, it may even work as expected. Clearing the warning doesn't make
it safe unless it also passes the tests, ie. its unsafe and therefore
illegal under UK law. Its just as illegal as havining spiky bits of
metal sticking out of a car.

It's clear you haven't got a clue about how an airbag operates, how
its triggering mechanisms are monitored, how faults are reported and,
well lets face it everything about airbags.




Its clear that you don't have a clue! But lets not let that stop you
from content free posts. Are you huge's alter ego?


It's a safety critical system, clearing a fault code by plugging in a
diagnostic tool (either the official one or an aftermarket one) does
not stop the constant checking of system integrity. That unchanged
functionality is by specific design.

By clearing a fault code you do not make the system unstable and non
compliant with any type approval or Construction and Use legislation.

Just in case you have forgotten the OP didn't want to clear the code he
wanted to disable it!

Just so you understand that is not the same as clearing the code and
running diagnostics.

There is no specific legal requirement for cars used on the road to have
an airbag.

On 28/04/2018 23:02, dennis@home wrote:
On 28/04/2018 21:52, Fredxx wrote:
On 28/04/2018 14:50, dennis@home wrote:
On 28/04/2018 11:33, Fredxx wrote:
On 28/04/2018 10:52, dennis@home wrote:
On 28/04/2018 09:41, Nick Finnigan wrote:

Â*Â*(Engine diagnostic or service warning light is usually easier to
clear).


You don't normally need any equipment to clear a service warning
light.
In most cases its hold a particular button(s) in while turning the
ignition on/off. Google will probably tell you which if the
dealer/manual won't.

On the case of an airbag it can give a code indicating the sensor or
the problem at hand.
True but that isn't a service warning light, its a fault indicator
that requires service.

and a code will tell you which item needs "servicing".

*May* tell you what needs servicing. You haven't had much experience with car maintenance have you?

When was the last time you hooked up your laptop with a ELM327 pod to
your car?

On 28/04/2018 23:07, dennis@home wrote:
On 28/04/2018 22:24, Fredxx wrote:
On 28/04/2018 21:18, dennis@home wrote:
On 28/04/2018 15:29, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sat, 28 Apr 2018 14:35:06 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

Do you have a clue about how much energy is needed to detonate the
explosives in an airbag?

Why don't you tell us, since you're such an expert?




I'm not the one claiming the residual electrical energy will set them
off, why don' t you explain how much and from where?

That's a bit rich, how about telling us the legislation that makes it
illegal to drive a car with the ABS light disabled.



The specific details have alrteady been given in this thread

I don't see any statute being quoted. It must be hiding very well, or
you're proving yourself to be utterly dishonest.

On 28/04/2018 23:08, dennis@home wrote:
On 28/04/2018 21:53, Fredxx wrote:
On 28/04/2018 15:32, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sat, 28 Apr 2018 14:53:13 +0100, Harry Bloomfield wrote:

dennis@home explained on 28/04/2018 :
29 minutes later?

It is technically possible to enable them to still fire days later, it
is also possible to have them still able to fire at 29 minutes later,
but not at 30 minutes later.

The manual for mine (not a Volvo) states to leave it for 5 minutes after
disconnecting the battery. And they've probably added a couple of extra
minutes to get to this figure just to be on the safe side.

Sshh, don't tell dennis.

You still haven't quoted a manual that says 30 minutes or anywhere near
that.

I have he

https://www.pelicanparts.com/techart...eplacement.htm

On 28/04/2018 23:05, dennis@home wrote:
On 28/04/2018 21:57, MrCheerful wrote:
On 28/04/2018 21:41, dennis@home wrote:
On 28/04/2018 21:30, MrCheerful wrote:
On 28/04/2018 21:18, dennis@home wrote:
On 28/04/2018 15:29, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sat, 28 Apr 2018 14:35:06 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

Do you have a clue about how much energy is needed to detonate the
explosives in an airbag?

Why don't you tell us, since you're such an expert?




I'm not the one claiming the residual electrical energy will set
them off, why don' t you explain how much and from where?


a quick google says that 3-4 volts can set one off.

How many joules?
Where from?


Who gives a ****?

You claim 3-4 volts will detonate an airbag but its not the volts that
does it but, you don't give a **** as long as you can give an answer
however wrong it is.

Do you have anything constructive to say?

So far, all you have done is prove you know nothing. Can you prove 3-4
volts won't detonate an airbag?

On 28/04/2018 19:06, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sat, 28 Apr 2018 16:18:02 +0100, John Rumm wrote:

Given that its acceptable to disable an airbag (say when you have an
infant in a read facing seat on the passenger seat), then I would be
surprised if driving with a non functional airbag is actually an
offence.

"Acceptable"?? It's really *essential* since babies have been killed by
these damn things.

I mean its acceptable from a legal PoV (obviously essential from a
safety one)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 28/04/2018 21:20, dennis@home wrote:
On 28/04/2018 16:18, John Rumm wrote:
On 28/04/2018 13:58, Roger Hayter wrote:
dennis@home wrote:

On 28/04/2018 12:25, Roger Hayter wrote:

I thought everyone knew that.

I am not sure that the term "roadworthy" is well-defined in law. For
instance, while it may be illegal to drive a car which has no MOT,
I am
less convinced that it is illegal to drive a car with a valid MOT that
has a defective airbag warning light, whether or not a new MOT in the
currnency of the old has drawn this to your attention. This may
well be
a matter of fact rather than of dogmatic opinion.




http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/75

You may note that it includes the terms that it is dangerous to you or
anyone else. This includes things like faulty safety systems like
brakes
and airbags. Only a part of a system has to be faulty to be
unroadworthy, like the warning lights being on or not working.

That section relates to selling a vehicle. You want section 42 of the
same act which makes it an offence to drive a care which fails to meet
*any* particular one of the construction and use regulations. But you
still need to prove (rather than merely assert) that the failure of a
airbag warning light amounts to a breach of the construction and use
regulations. I agree it is quite likely, but that would not be
sufficient basis for prosecution until the relevant clause in the regs
is found.

Given that its acceptable to disable an airbag (say when you have an
infant in a read facing seat on the passenger seat), then I would be
surprised if driving with a non functional airbag is actually an offence.



There is a difference between a faulty system and one being used as
intended. Suppose the fault caused the airbag to go off while there was
a child and seat there?

If its detecting a fault condition then it should be rendered safe by
its control system. (even if the fault is just in the detection system)



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 28/04/2018 21:26, dennis@home wrote:
On 28/04/2018 16:25, John Rumm wrote:
On 28/04/2018 14:46, dennis@home wrote:
On 28/04/2018 12:54, The Other Mike wrote:
On Fri, 27 Apr 2018 22:46:50 +0100, "dennis@home"
wrote:

Do you think its legal to drive a car that you know will fail the MOT?

Yes it is legal

They can prove you know if the fault has been cleared without the
diagnostics being run.

Would love to know how anyone would actually perform this action

Unless you know why it came on you don't know if the
airbag will deploy when it should or if it will deploy when it
shouldn't. You would look pretty stupid if it went off while you were
doing 70 on the motorway or leaning over to clean the screen.

The built in precautions to prevent accidental deployment of an airbag
also ensure intentional deployment


Its faulty, the light is/has been on, so what you just said doesn't
apply or even make sense. That is the whole point, you do not have a
clue as to what will happen when the system has/is indicating a fault.
It may fail to go off when it should, it may go off at some random
point, it may even work as expected.

I would expect any safety critical design to fail safe...

For example I had a dodgy sensor on one car with ABS. If you hit a
pothole with the rear offside wheel it would cause the ABS warning
light to come on. At that point the ABS system as a whole was then
inhibited, and the breaking system reverted to a normal non ABS one. A
design decision, that elected to possible disable the breaks entirely
on detection of a fault, would hopefully not get through a design review!




Design covers faults that they can predict, not ones they can't.

That's not acceptable for safety critical system. Either it works as
intended or its locked out from operation.

So a safety critical system may identify that there is a fault but may
not be able to safely "fix" it.

It may not be able to fix it, but it can cease doing what is required to
keep it active. (the hardware default should be to disable it, like any
safety critical system)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 28/04/2018 21:32, dennis@home wrote:
On 28/04/2018 19:28, Tim+ wrote:
MrCheerful Wrote in message:
On 28/04/2018 14:38, dennis@home wrote:
On 28/04/2018 12:54, The Other Mike wrote:
On Sat, 28 Apr 2018 11:23:10 +0100, "dennis@home"
wrote:

On 28/04/2018 10:47, Oliver wrote:
On 27/04/2018 20:42, Chris wrote:
If I go to a Volvo main dealer they'll take me to the cleaners for
this I
would imagine, based on previous experiences, so I'm determined
to do
this myself if it's at all possible!

Has anyone ever had to turn off an SRS airbag fault tell-tale?
There
might or might not be a genuine fault, but I don't care either way.
Being
of a certain age I just want the warning got rid of. The car is
a 2008
Volvo V70 if that makes any difference.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/caradvice/honestjohn/9750860/Quick-fix-for-faulty-airbag-light.html






Do you trust anyone that posts cr@p like this..

"A very useful tip, thank you. Before fiddling with the connector,
you
need to leave the car switched off for half an hour to discharge any
residual current in the electrics. Otherwise, you might trigger the
airbag. "

Maybe someone wants to ask him what this residual electricity is and
where it goes after 30 minutes?

I suppose the specific warnings in car manufacturers own service
literature for the past 30+ years stating similar precautions before
woring on any part of the airbag system are invalid too?


Want to post a link to one that says 30 minutes?





Â*Â* "the airbag control system is designed to remain operational for
up to
30 minutes after the battery has been disconnected. "
https://www.pelicanparts.com/techart...eplacement.htm



Interesting, but is that an authoritative source? I really can't
Â* think of aÂ* reasonable scenario where keeping an airbag "live"
Â* for that long after loss of battery power makes any sense at
Â* all.

Tim


It doesn't, its are covering by people that don't have a clue.

Of which you don't have a clue.

In article ,
MrCheerful wrote:
On 28/04/2018 21:41, dennis@home wrote:
On 28/04/2018 21:30, MrCheerful wrote:
On 28/04/2018 21:18, dennis@home wrote:
On 28/04/2018 15:29, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sat, 28 Apr 2018 14:35:06 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

Do you have a clue about how much energy is needed to detonate the
explosives in an airbag?

Why don't you tell us, since you're such an expert?




I'm not the one claiming the residual electrical energy will set them
off, why don' t you explain how much and from where?


a quick google says that 3-4 volts can set one off.

How many joules?
Where from?


Who gives a ****?

The point is that volts on their own mean nothing. You need some current
flow. My guess is an airbag firing mechanism actually takes a fair bit of
current. But not something I'm willing to check out myself. ;-)

--
*The average person falls asleep in seven minutes *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 29/04/2018 01:12, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
MrCheerful wrote:
On 28/04/2018 21:41, dennis@home wrote:
On 28/04/2018 21:30, MrCheerful wrote:
On 28/04/2018 21:18, dennis@home wrote:
On 28/04/2018 15:29, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sat, 28 Apr 2018 14:35:06 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

Do you have a clue about how much energy is needed to detonate the
explosives in an airbag?

Why don't you tell us, since you're such an expert?




I'm not the one claiming the residual electrical energy will set them
off, why don' t you explain how much and from where?


a quick google says that 3-4 volts can set one off.

How many joules?
Where from?


Who gives a ****?

The point is that volts on their own mean nothing. You need some current

Where with the appropriate knowledge of the device, the current can be
derived from the applied voltage.

On 28-Apr-18 7:06 PM, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sat, 28 Apr 2018 16:18:02 +0100, John Rumm wrote:

Given that its acceptable to disable an airbag (say when you have an
infant in a read facing seat on the passenger seat), then I would be
surprised if driving with a non functional airbag is actually an
offence.

"Acceptable"?? It's really *essential* since babies have been killed by
these damn things.

If you know anyone that likes to put their feet up on the dash make them
stop. If the air bag goes off their knee goes though their head.
https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/m...-should-318227

Don't cross your hands on the steering wheel so your arm is between you
and the air bag. If it goes off you break your face.

https://sarahs-muse.livejournal.com/580342.html

Even 10 to 2 is claimed to be risky.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...nds-crash.html

Depending on religion (petrolhead wars) this may be worse.
https://jalopnik.com/5907298/an-expl...-this-mans-arm

On 28-Apr-18 11:26 PM, MrCheerful wrote:
On 28/04/2018 23:12, dennis@home wrote:
On 28/04/2018 22:51, The Other Mike wrote:
On Sat, 28 Apr 2018 21:28:29 +0100, "dennis@home"
wrote:

On 28/04/2018 17:24, The Other Mike wrote:
On Sat, 28 Apr 2018 14:46:49 +0100, "dennis@home"
wrote:

On 28/04/2018 12:54, The Other Mike wrote:
On Fri, 27 Apr 2018 22:46:50 +0100, "dennis@home"
wrote:

Do you think its legal to drive a car that you know will fail
the MOT?

Yes it is legal

They can prove you know if the fault has been cleared without the
diagnostics being run.

Would love to know how anyone would actually perform this action

Unless you know why it came on you don't know if the
airbag will deploy when it should or if it will deploy when it
shouldn't. You would look pretty stupid if it went off while you
were
doing 70 on the motorway or leaning over to clean the screen.

The built in precautions to prevent accidental deployment of an
airbag
also ensure intentional deployment


Its faulty, the light is/has been on, so what you just said doesn't
apply or even make sense. That is the whole point, you do not have a
clue as to what will happen when the system has/is indicating a
fault.
It may fail to go off when it should, it may go off at some random
point, it may even work as expected. Clearing the warning doesn't
make
it safe unless it also passes the tests, ie. its unsafe and therefore
illegal under UK law. Its just as illegal as havining spiky bits of
metal sticking out of a car.

It's clear you haven't got a clue about how an airbag operates, how
its triggering mechanisms are monitored, how faults are reported and,
well lets face it everything about airbags.




Its clear that you don't have a clue! But lets not let that stop you
from content free posts. Are you huge's alter ego?


It's a safety critical system, clearing a fault code by plugging in a
diagnostic tool (either the official one or an aftermarket one) does
not stop the constant checking of system integrity. That unchanged
functionality is by specific design.

By clearing a fault code you do not make the system unstable and non
compliant with any type approval or Construction and Use legislation.

Just in case you have forgotten the OP didn't want to clear the code
he wanted to disable it!

Just so you understand that is not the same as clearing the code and
running diagnostics.

There is no specific legal requirement for cars used on the road to have
an airbag.


If you remove it you have to remove the whole system including the
warning light and it's label (tapped over).

Seat belts can be removed, if you remove the seat as well. May get an
advisory on MOT. "xxxx seat belt not tested as not present and no seat".
I've put cars though MOT re-test with no interior after taking the
carpet out for welding. Just drivers seat and seat belt. Having a seat
belt present but no seat is also a fail.

You can weld doors shut if you remove the seat that is accessed by that
door. If you have a seat and can't open the door that's a fail as a guy
at work found last month on his Aston (£300 for 10 min work, a coffee
and a complimentary car wash). It worked the week before but didn't work
at the MOT.

I know many people that have removed ABS systems when converting to
bigger discs and 4 pot brakes as it firms up the pedal and gives them an
effective 1" brake master cylinder instead of the stock 15/16". Has the
car become a "dangerous vehicle"? NO.

On 29/04/2018 01:25, Fredxx wrote:
On 29/04/2018 01:12, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Â*Â*Â* MrCheerful wrote:
On 28/04/2018 21:41, dennis@home wrote:
On 28/04/2018 21:30, MrCheerful wrote:
On 28/04/2018 21:18, dennis@home wrote:
On 28/04/2018 15:29, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sat, 28 Apr 2018 14:35:06 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

Do you have a clue about how much energy is needed to detonate the
explosives in an airbag?

Why don't you tell us, since you're such an expert?




I'm not the one claiming the residual electrical energy will set them
off, why don' t you explain how much and from where?


a quick google says that 3-4 volts can set one off.

How many joules?
Where from?


Who gives a ****?

The point is that volts on their own mean nothing. You need some current

Where with the appropriate knowledge of the device, the current can be
derived from the applied voltage.

a pp3 will do it, according to you tube

On 28/04/18 19:28, Tim+ wrote:
MrCheerful Wrote in message:
On 28/04/2018 14:38, dennis@home wrote:
On 28/04/2018 12:54, The Other Mike wrote:
On Sat, 28 Apr 2018 11:23:10 +0100, "dennis@home"
wrote:

On 28/04/2018 10:47, Oliver wrote:
On 27/04/2018 20:42, Chris wrote:
If I go to a Volvo main dealer they'll take me to the cleaners for
this I
would imagine, based on previous experiences, so I'm determined to do
this myself if it's at all possible!

Has anyone ever had to turn off an SRS airbag fault tell-tale? There
might or might not be a genuine fault, but I don't care either way.
Being
of a certain age I just want the warning got rid of. The car is a 2008
Volvo V70 if that makes any difference.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/caradvice/honestjohn/9750860/Quick-fix-for-faulty-airbag-light.html





Do you trust anyone that posts cr@p like this..

"A very useful tip, thank you. Before fiddling with the connector, you
need to leave the car switched off for half an hour to discharge any
residual current in the electrics. Otherwise, you might trigger the
airbag. "

Maybe someone wants to ask him what this residual electricity is and
where it goes after 30 minutes?

I suppose the specific warnings in car manufacturers own service
literature for the past 30+ years stating similar precautions before
woring on any part of the airbag system are invalid too?


Want to post a link to one that says 30 minutes?





"the airbag control system is designed to remain operational for up to
30 minutes after the battery has been disconnected. "

https://www.pelicanparts.com/techart...eplacement.htm


Interesting, but is that an authoritative source? I really can't
think of a reasonable scenario where keeping an airbag "live"
for that long after loss of battery power makes any sense at
all.

Tim

30 minutes is cautious, but there is a capacitor that holds charge in
airbag systems, designed to ensure there's always power to deploy the
bag. Seems a bit odd if you think about it, because surely the ECU would
need power to make the decision to deploy. 30 min is standard advice.