Sorry to ask for some DIY advice, but has anyone any experience of using
either stick on or iron on veneer on a fairly large panel? Roughly 750 x
450 mm?

I've found a few places online that supply a paper backed ready glued real
teak veneer (a bit like sticky backed plastic) which sounds like it would
be easier to work with than traditional glueing methods (for me).

--
*The colder the X-ray table, the more of your body is required on it *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Its OK if you realise it will peel first at edges and corners, and will tend
to bubble if subjected to heat. The iron on stuff is thicker and does still
turn up at edges after some time or if subjected to damp or temperature
changes outside the norm.
On my fireplace some is beginning to crack as well as it hardens but this
is 20 years later. its already had plastic edging put over the pealing
edges.

Brian

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"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
Sorry to ask for some DIY advice, but has anyone any experience of using
either stick on or iron on veneer on a fairly large panel? Roughly 750 x
450 mm?

I've found a few places online that supply a paper backed ready glued real
teak veneer (a bit like sticky backed plastic) which sounds like it would
be easier to work with than traditional glueing methods (for me).

--
*The colder the X-ray table, the more of your body is required on it *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Wednesday, 21 March 2018 15:48:01 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Sorry to ask for some DIY advice, but has anyone any experience of using
either stick on or iron on veneer on a fairly large panel? Roughly 750 x
450 mm?

I've found a few places online that supply a paper backed ready glued real
teak veneer (a bit like sticky backed plastic) which sounds like it would
be easier to work with than traditional glueing methods (for me).

I can't see how it could be easier than wet glue. No chance of bubbles when the glue is wet/thin & slides well. Different story with a tacky adhesive.


NT

On Thursday, March 22, 2018 at 2:34:16 AM UTC, wrote:
On Wednesday, 21 March 2018 15:48:01 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Sorry to ask for some DIY advice, but has anyone any experience of using
either stick on or iron on veneer on a fairly large panel? Roughly 750 x
450 mm?

I've found a few places online that supply a paper backed ready glued real
teak veneer (a bit like sticky backed plastic) which sounds like it would
be easier to work with than traditional glueing methods (for me).

I can't see how it could be easier than wet glue. No chance of bubbles when the glue is wet/thin & slides well. Different story with a tacky adhesive.


NT

Wet glue would require clamping

In article ,
fred wrote:
On Thursday, March 22, 2018 at 2:34:16 AM UTC, wrote:
On Wednesday, 21 March 2018 15:48:01 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Sorry to ask for some DIY advice, but has anyone any experience of using
either stick on or iron on veneer on a fairly large panel? Roughly 750 x
450 mm?

I've found a few places online that supply a paper backed ready glued real
teak veneer (a bit like sticky backed plastic) which sounds like it would
be easier to work with than traditional glueing methods (for me).

I can't see how it could be easier than wet glue. No chance of bubbles when the glue is wet/thin & slides well. Different story with a tacky adhesive.


NT

Wet glue would require clamping

Thing is for a large area you'd need some method of clamping rather
outside the scope of DIY? Unless I'm missing something?

--
*It was recently discovered that research causes cancer in rats*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman wrote:

Thing is for a large area you'd need some method of clamping rather
outside the scope of DIY? Unless I'm missing something?

What's wrong with contact adhesive, and using some thin dowels to allow
positioning it before pressing it down?

On Thu, 22 Mar 2018 10:20:59 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
fred wrote:
On Thursday, March 22, 2018 at 2:34:16 AM UTC, wrote:
On Wednesday, 21 March 2018 15:48:01 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Sorry to ask for some DIY advice, but has anyone any experience of using
either stick on or iron on veneer on a fairly large panel? Roughly 750 x
450 mm?

I've found a few places online that supply a paper backed ready glued real
teak veneer (a bit like sticky backed plastic) which sounds like it would
be easier to work with than traditional glueing methods (for me).

I can't see how it could be easier than wet glue. No chance of bubbles when the glue is wet/thin & slides well. Different story with a tacky adhesive.


NT

Wet glue would require clamping

Thing is for a large area you'd need some method of clamping rather
outside the scope of DIY? Unless I'm missing something?

Wet glue really only works for smallish areas you can clamp with a suitable load
spreader, anything 'big' and you really need a vacuum bag and pump.

Iron on veneer certainly works and many speaker manufacturers used to use it.

You can (could?) buy the heat sensitive glue in sheets to use your own veneers.

--

On 22/03/18 11:14, The Other Mike wrote:
On Thu, 22 Mar 2018 10:20:59 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
fred wrote:
On Thursday, March 22, 2018 at 2:34:16 AM UTC, wrote:
On Wednesday, 21 March 2018 15:48:01 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Sorry to ask for some DIY advice, but has anyone any experience of using
either stick on or iron on veneer on a fairly large panel? Roughly 750 x
450 mm?

I've found a few places online that supply a paper backed ready glued real
teak veneer (a bit like sticky backed plastic) which sounds like it would
be easier to work with than traditional glueing methods (for me).

I can't see how it could be easier than wet glue. No chance of bubbles when the glue is wet/thin & slides well. Different story with a tacky adhesive.


NT

Wet glue would require clamping

Thing is for a large area you'd need some method of clamping rather
outside the scope of DIY? Unless I'm missing something?

Wet glue really only works for smallish areas you can clamp with a suitable load
spreader, anything 'big' and you really need a vacuum bag and pump.

Wrong. We used to veneer 10 8x4 slabs with PVA in a huge sandwich using
a 2 ton press.

All that matters is maintaining contact while things dry.

And a few more bits of wood on top and some weight does that nicely in
amateurs contexts

PVA will gap fill. Just not so much.




Iron on veneer certainly works and many speaker manufacturers used to use it.

You can (could?) buy the heat sensitive glue in sheets to use your own veneers.



--
Karl Marx said religion is the opium of the people.
But Marxism is the crack cocaine.

On Thursday, 22 March 2018 10:22:32 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
fred wrote:
On Thursday, March 22, 2018 at 2:34:16 AM UTC, tabby wrote:
On Wednesday, 21 March 2018 15:48:01 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Sorry to ask for some DIY advice, but has anyone any experience of using
either stick on or iron on veneer on a fairly large panel? Roughly 750 x
450 mm?

I've found a few places online that supply a paper backed ready glued real
teak veneer (a bit like sticky backed plastic) which sounds like it would
be easier to work with than traditional glueing methods (for me).

I can't see how it could be easier than wet glue. No chance of bubbles when the glue is wet/thin & slides well. Different story with a tacky adhesive.


NT

Wet glue would require clamping

Thing is for a large area you'd need some method of clamping rather
outside the scope of DIY? Unless I'm missing something?

Of course. Do you not have enough stuff you could pile on top? Put down polythene then chipboard and on that you can put just about anything. Doesn't get you high clamp pressure, but it only needs to stay in touch to work.


NT

On Thu, 22 Mar 2018 07:06:36 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Of course. Do you not have enough stuff you could pile on top? Put down polythene then chipboard and on that you can put just about anything. Doesn't get you high clamp pressure, but it only needs to stay in touch to work.

Er, no.

A veneer press has 4" Acme thread screws, a 2" steel bar four foot long, and two
give that bar all the welly they can...


Thomas Prufer

In article ,
wrote:
Thing is for a large area you'd need some method of clamping rather
outside the scope of DIY? Unless I'm missing something?

Of course. Do you not have enough stuff you could pile on top? Put down
polythene then chipboard and on that you can put just about anything.
Doesn't get you high clamp pressure, but it only needs to stay in touch
to work.

I've been thinking about that - but my experience of using wood glue is
the higher the clamping pressure, the better, within reason. And how much
weight would you need on a largeish board to equal that provided by a
vacuum? (Just thinking about how much grunt a small area vacuum servo
produces on car brakes)

Other thing I've come across is iron on glue - paper backed. You iron that
on, let it dry, remove the paper, then iron on the veneer. Says suitable
for up to 1mm veneer.

--
*Am I ambivalent? Well, yes and no.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Wrong. We used to veneer 10 8x4 slabs with PVA in a huge sandwich using
a 2 ton press.

Ah - right. I'll just pick the one out of several I keep in the tool
cupboard.

All that matters is maintaining contact while things dry.

Err, why the two ton press if all that's needed is to maintain contact.

--
*One of us is thinking about sex... OK, it's me.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Thu, 22 Mar 2018 15:49:24 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

Other thing I've come across is iron on glue - paper backed. You iron that
on, let it dry, remove the paper, then iron on the veneer. Says suitable
for up to 1mm veneer.

You could use a hide glue, and iron it on.


Thomas Prufer

On Thu, 22 Mar 2018 15:51:45 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Wrong. We used to veneer 10 8x4 slabs with PVA in a huge sandwich using
a 2 ton press.

Ah - right. I'll just pick the one out of several I keep in the tool
cupboard.

All that matters is maintaining contact while things dry.

Err, why the two ton press if all that's needed is to maintain contact.

2240lb x 2 / 8 x 4 ft / 144 = a massive 1psi

With a decent vacuum setup you get around 14psi which really does ensure full
contact with the substrate with next to no human mechanical effort.

With a vacuum bag you can stick veneer to curved surfaces and when finished just
chuck away the peel ply, and breather fabric, roll the vacuum bag up under the
bench alongside a vacuum pump, a bit of pipe and a vacuum breach fitting. It
helps when you already have these bits for doing composite work.

A 10 tonne hydraulic press already sits in the workshop for bearing
replacements. I'd hate to think where I'd even fit a 8ft x 4ft 2 ton press and
what I'd ever use it for...torturing politicians might be useful I suppose but
an oxy-acetylene torch and a branding iron would probably be better if one had
access to a decent positive pressure fed respirator... which I do.



--

On 22/03/2018 15:51, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Wrong. We used to veneer 10 8x4 slabs with PVA in a huge sandwich using
a 2 ton press.

Ah - right. I'll just pick the one out of several I keep in the tool
cupboard.

All that matters is maintaining contact while things dry.

Err, why the two ton press if all that's needed is to maintain contact.


My grandfathers cider press would have done that nicely :-)

On 22/03/2018 15:10, Thomas Prufer wrote:
On Thu, 22 Mar 2018 07:06:36 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Of course. Do you not have enough stuff you could pile on top? Put down polythene then chipboard and on that you can put just about anything. Doesn't get you high clamp pressure, but it only needs to stay in touch to work.

Er, no.

A veneer press has 4" Acme thread screws, a 2" steel bar four foot long, and two
give that bar all the welly they can...


Thomas Prufer

But a few proper concrete blocks ontop of a slab of chipboard
would probably do the job.

On Thursday, 22 March 2018 15:10:22 UTC, Thomas Prufer wrote:
On Thu, 22 Mar 2018 07:06:36 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr wrote:

Of course. Do you not have enough stuff you could pile on top? Put down polythene then chipboard and on that you can put just about anything. Doesn't get you high clamp pressure, but it only needs to stay in touch to work.

Er, no.

A veneer press has 4" Acme thread screws, a 2" steel bar four foot long, and two
give that bar all the welly they can...


Thomas Prufer

You don't need to use a veneer press.


NT

On Thursday, 22 March 2018 15:53:23 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Wrong. We used to veneer 10 8x4 slabs with PVA in a huge sandwich using
a 2 ton press.

Ah - right. I'll just pick the one out of several I keep in the tool
cupboard.

All that matters is maintaining contact while things dry.

Err, why the two ton press if all that's needed is to maintain contact.

imperfections in the surfaces. But you don't need tonnes for diy. PU glue is much better at gaps than PVA.


NT

On Thursday, March 22, 2018 at 4:06:08 PM UTC, Thomas Prufer wrote:
On Thu, 22 Mar 2018 15:49:24 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

Other thing I've come across is iron on glue - paper backed. You iron that
on, let it dry, remove the paper, then iron on the veneer. Says suitable
for up to 1mm veneer.

You could use a hide glue, and iron it on.


Thomas Prufer

My own thoughts exactly. Might need a little practice and a veneer hammer but thats how it was done for years. One advantage would be re-positioning or repair ability as it would just require heat to soften the glue. Check youtube for hammer veneering

Impact adhesive would give a very permanent fix. Interpose sheets of paper before laying down the veneer and gradually draw them back as you apply the veneer.

"fred" wrote in message
...
On Thursday, March 22, 2018 at 4:06:08 PM UTC, Thomas Prufer wrote:
On Thu, 22 Mar 2018 15:49:24 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

Other thing I've come across is iron on glue - paper backed. You iron
that
on, let it dry, remove the paper, then iron on the veneer. Says suitable
for up to 1mm veneer.

You could use a hide glue, and iron it on.

Some practical thoughts on this - from actually doing it a couple of years
ago....

This was to veneer a couple of speaker cabinets - largest face around
250x1040mm - so a different shape as your requirements, but around the same
area. I used iron-on American white oak from woodveneeruk.co.uk - ironed on
to well sanded bare MDF, using the suppliers instructions.

Overall I found it worked well, and was not too difficult. The suppliers
recommend leaving the item for a couple of days to see if any bubbles
appear, and then re-ironing - and they were right - some did, and were then
ironed successfully flat.

Oak is a fairly open grain, and although the veneer was sanded well after
application, in a glancing light you can see the grain structure very
slightly - so it's not totally flat. This doesn't show in normal conditions
though, and I'm pleased with the result. For a fully flat mirror finish
grain filler would probably do the job, if preferred.

I used multiple coats of Rustins Plastic Coating to finish - which I like,
but tastes on finish vary..... To date there have been no bubbles or peeling
edges.

Dave, if you want some pictures let me know.

Charles F


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In article ,
Charles F wrote:
Some practical thoughts on this - from actually doing it a couple of
years ago....

Thank gawd for that. ;-)

This was to veneer a couple of speaker cabinets - largest face around
250x1040mm - so a different shape as your requirements, but around the
same area. I used iron-on American white oak from woodveneeruk.co.uk -
ironed on to well sanded bare MDF, using the suppliers instructions.

I've used iron on real wood edging in the past and found it pretty good,
so did wonder about using much larger sheets.

Overall I found it worked well, and was not too difficult. The suppliers
recommend leaving the item for a couple of days to see if any bubbles
appear, and then re-ironing - and they were right - some did, and were
then ironed successfully flat.

OK

Oak is a fairly open grain, and although the veneer was sanded well
after application, in a glancing light you can see the grain structure
very slightly - so it's not totally flat. This doesn't show in normal
conditions though, and I'm pleased with the result. For a fully flat
mirror finish grain filler would probably do the job, if preferred.

I'm quite happy to see the grain structure. I was intending just using an
oiled finish.

I used multiple coats of Rustins Plastic Coating to finish - which I
like, but tastes on finish vary..... To date there have been no bubbles
or peeling edges.

Dave, if you want some pictures let me know.

Happy to take your word for it. Thanks Charles.

--
*Procrastination is the art of keeping up with yesterday.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
fred wrote:
On Thursday, March 22, 2018 at 4:06:08 PM UTC, Thomas Prufer wrote:
On Thu, 22 Mar 2018 15:49:24 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

Other thing I've come across is iron on glue - paper backed. You iron
that on, let it dry, remove the paper, then iron on the veneer. Says
suitable for up to 1mm veneer.

You could use a hide glue, and iron it on.


Thomas Prufer

My own thoughts exactly. Might need a little practice and a veneer
hammer but thats how it was done for years. One advantage would be
re-positioning or repair ability as it would just require heat to soften
the glue. Check youtube for hammer veneering

Surely science has developed better glues than traditional ones made from
what was left over from an animal kill? ;-)

Impact adhesive would give a very permanent fix. Interpose sheets of
paper before laying down the veneer and gradually draw them back as you
apply the veneer.

There used to be contact adhesives that allowed some movement to position
things.

--
*When everything's coming your way, you're in the wrong lane *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman wrote:

There used to be contact adhesives that allowed some movement to position
things.

Depends how you use them

.... either coat both surfaces, wait for it to go touch dry, carefully
position surfaces (with dowels/waxed-paper/etc keeping them apart until
sure) then gradually bring the surfaces together while smoothing out.

.... or coat one surface and immediately press to the other surface
without letting it go off, then it has some give for positioning, but
you need to hold it in place while it dries, which to me negates the
point of a contact adhesive.

On Thu, 22 Mar 2018 11:06:39 +0000, Andy Burns wrote:

Dave Plowman wrote:

Thing is for a large area you'd need some method of clamping rather
outside the scope of DIY? Unless I'm missing something?

What's wrong with contact adhesive, and using some thin dowels to allow
positioning it before pressing it down?



Thats how I have done my occasional bits of veneering
A thin even coat of glue on both sides with no lumps or ridges
Touch dry before assembly

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BeFzAPik_68

is a quick demo

however he does not address veneering the edges
if you need to do the edges you might consider doing them
first to get some practice in before tackling the big piece

In article ,
says...


There used to be contact adhesives that allowed some movement to position
things.

Correct! Thixotropic contact adhesive, to be precise.

I found it very useful when glueing large Formica sheets to a
kitchen worktop I'd built about 40 years ago and it's still
there (or at least it was when we finally moved out a few
months ago!)

It is still available from several manufacturers but the most
common one seems to be Evostik TX528 Thixotropic adhesive.

--

Terry

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On Friday, 23 March 2018 10:25:47 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
fred wrote:
On Thursday, March 22, 2018 at 4:06:08 PM UTC, Thomas Prufer wrote:
On Thu, 22 Mar 2018 15:49:24 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

Other thing I've come across is iron on glue - paper backed. You iron
that on, let it dry, remove the paper, then iron on the veneer. Says
suitable for up to 1mm veneer.

You could use a hide glue, and iron it on.


Thomas Prufer

My own thoughts exactly. Might need a little practice and a veneer
hammer but thats how it was done for years. One advantage would be
re-positioning or repair ability as it would just require heat to soften
the glue. Check youtube for hammer veneering

Surely science has developed better glues than traditional ones made from
what was left over from an animal kill? ;-)

Boiled dead bits is still the best glue for some jobs.
PVA is a hot melt glue, don't know whether the melt temp is suitable for this job - easy enough to try. PVA isn't good at gap filling though.


NT

In article ,
Terry Casey wrote:
There used to be contact adhesives that allowed some movement to
position things.

Correct! Thixotropic contact adhesive, to be precise.

Of course. ;-)

I found it very useful when glueing large Formica sheets to a
kitchen worktop I'd built about 40 years ago and it's still
there (or at least it was when we finally moved out a few
months ago!)

It is still available from several manufacturers but the most
common one seems to be Evostik TX528 Thixotropic adhesive.

Ordinary Evostik seems to have fallen foul of the H&S brigade and doesn't
work as well as once - is the Thixotropic OK?

The one I remember is Dunlop Thixofix.

--
*WHY ARE HEMORRHOIDS CALLED "HEMORRHOIDS" INSTEAD OF "ASTEROIDS"?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Fri, 23 Mar 2018 10:25:11 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

Surely science has developed better glues than traditional ones made from
what was left over from an animal kill? ;-)

Yes, but they require a heated hydraulic press...

You may be able to get away with this; someone told me they had got this to work
(possibly as an on-site bodge): "Use PVA glue, a thin even layer on the wood.
Let dry. Iron on untreated wood veneer."


Thomas Prufer