https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...lly-uk-brexit/

"Two in three people believe the European Union is attempting to €œbully€�
the UK in the Brexit negotiations, according to a new poll.

A survey carried out for the Telegraph reveals that while the split of
Leave and Remain voters is largely unchanged since the referendum,
67€‰per cent of individuals, regardless of their voting preference,
agreed that €œthe EU is trying to bully the UK€� in its approach to the
talks."


--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.

On Tue, 13 Mar 2018 03:51:33 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...lly-uk-brexit/

"Two in three people believe the European Union is attempting to “bully”
the UK in the Brexit negotiations, according to a new poll.

A survey carried out for the Telegraph reveals that while the split of
Leave and Remain voters is largely unchanged since the referendum,
67?per cent of individuals, regardless of their voting preference,
agreed that “the EU is trying to bully the UK” in its approach to the
talks."

Why bother with the poll, Brexit is happening and we have been
informed that Britain will be much better off outside the EU.

The trade deals are rolling in and the EU is almost totally
superflous.

Why is EU bullying of any concern to a true Brit?


Let em bully Greece instead, they probably have the growth to render
such trivial concerns irrelevant now anyway.

AB

You need to put yourself in the position of the eu. \if it all goes smoothly
with the UK some pretty major members will also want out, crippling the
whole system.
Also did you hear Vince Cables recent speech? If not and you want a laugh,
go and listen to it. How to alienate everyone over retirement age by
suggesting they all voted out due to hankering for a rose coloured past that
never actually existed. Not the way to get Lib Dems elected, MR Cable.
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
news
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...lly-uk-brexit/

"Two in three people believe the European Union is attempting to "bully"
the UK in the Brexit negotiations, according to a new poll.

A survey carried out for the Telegraph reveals that while the split of
Leave and Remain voters is largely unchanged since the referendum, 67?per
cent of individuals, regardless of their voting preference, agreed that
"the EU is trying to bully the UK" in its approach to the talks."


--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in the
right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in someone
else's pocket.

"Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp" wrote in
message ...
On Tue, 13 Mar 2018 03:51:33 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...lly-uk-brexit/

"Two in three people believe the European Union is attempting to "bully"
the UK in the Brexit negotiations, according to a new poll.

A survey carried out for the Telegraph reveals that while the split of
Leave and Remain voters is largely unchanged since the referendum,
67?per cent of individuals, regardless of their voting preference,
agreed that "the EU is trying to bully the UK" in its approach to the
talks."

Why bother with the poll, Brexit is happening and we have been
informed that Britain will be much better off outside the EU.


because there are many people justifying their *demands* that things are so
bad that we shouldn't leave, on the EU's negotiation tactics

and not on what the actual end result might be,

and some people are reporting this bad result as fact.

tim

On 13-Mar-18 3:51 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...lly-uk-brexit/


"Two in three people believe the European Union is attempting to €œbully€�
the UK in the Brexit negotiations, according to a new poll.

A survey carried out for the Telegraph reveals that while the split of
Leave and Remain voters is largely unchanged since the referendum, 67€‰
per cent of individuals, regardless of their voting preference, agreed
that €œthe EU is trying to bully the UK€� in its approach to the talks."

The EU is doing what any intelligent person would expect them to do: put
the interests of the EU and its citizens before those of Britain. Any
impression that this is bullying is down to the false claims of the
Leave campaign about how easy Brexit would be and that they need us more
than we need them.


--
--

Colin Bignell

On Tue, 13 Mar 2018 09:08:06 -0000, "tim..."
wrote:

snip

and not on what the actual end result might be,

And that's the issue.

Brexiteers have all voiced various things that are important to them
re us leaving the EU but not one of them knew what they would actually
get, or what 'strength' of any of the facets they thought they were
voting for they would get and many (the sensible ones) may well not
want it at all if they don't get some / their key points and to a
sufficient level. eg, A bad deal *could* be worse than no deal (and
either could still be a disaster for all of us). We aren't going to
get a 'good deal', why would we (unless it costs us the same or more
than it's costing us now).

The Remainers voted to retain what we have now (no one can predict the
future so what we have *now* is all anyone could vote for logically)
but at least it was 'a known'.

I wonder which countries we will look to re support against Russia?

I can see all of the EU turning their backs on us just, as we are
doing to them.

Maybe we could end up being part of Russia, like Ukraine ... and I'm
guessing the Brexiteers would consider that better than being part of
the EU?

I'm sure all this is covered in the 'Brexiteers spreadsheet'. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...lly-uk-brexit/

"Two in three people believe the European Union is attempting to ”bully•
the UK in the Brexit negotiations, according to a new poll.

A survey carried out for the Telegraph reveals that while the split of
Leave and Remain voters is largely unchanged since the referendum,
67#per cent of individuals, regardless of their voting preference,
agreed that ”the EU is trying to bully the UK• in its approach to the
talks."

Of course the Torygraph will publish a survey to saying what its readers
want to read. That the correct way is for the UK to bully the EU into
giving it what it wants. After leavers slagging it off in every possible
way, too.

Thanks for confirming you don't understand humans.

--
*Never kick a cow pat on a hot day *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Brian Gaff wrote:
Also did you hear Vince Cables recent speech? If not and you want a
laugh, go and listen to it. How to alienate everyone over retirement
age by suggesting they all voted out due to hankering for a rose
coloured past that never actually existed. Not the way to get Lib Dems
elected, MR Cable.

Like many politicians in no position to do anything about it, he spoke a
great deal of sense.

And that part was very true. Many hankering back to 'the good ol' days'.
Just like Trump's 'Lets make America great again' without actually a clue
or plan on how to.

--
*Dance like nobody's watching.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Nightjar wrote:
On 13-Mar-18 3:51 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...lly-uk-brexit/


"Two in three people believe the European Union is attempting to ”bully•
the UK in the Brexit negotiations, according to a new poll.

A survey carried out for the Telegraph reveals that while the split of
Leave and Remain voters is largely unchanged since the referendum, 67#
per cent of individuals, regardless of their voting preference, agreed
that ”the EU is trying to bully the UK• in its approach to the talks."

The EU is doing what any intelligent person would expect them to do: put
the interests of the EU and its citizens before those of Britain. Any
impression that this is bullying is down to the false claims of the
Leave campaign about how easy Brexit would be and that they need us more
than we need them.

Quite. And now it has been shown just how wrong those optimists were, they
cry foul.

--
*Consciousness: That annoying time between naps.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 13/03/18 09:24, Nightjar wrote:
On 13-Mar-18 3:51 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...lly-uk-brexit/


"Two in three people believe the European Union is attempting to
€œbully€� the UK in the Brexit negotiations, according to a new poll.

A survey carried out for the Telegraph reveals that while the split of
Leave and Remain voters is largely unchanged since the referendum, 67€‰
per cent of individuals, regardless of their voting preference, agreed
that €œthe EU is trying to bully the UK€� in its approach to the talks."

The EU is doing what any intelligent person would expect them to do: put
the interests of the EU and its citizens before those of Britain.

It isn't though is it?

Its acting entirely in its OWN interest. German manufacturers are aghast
at the possibility of a hard brexit, so is Italy. And yet Brussels is
pursuing a course that will inevitably end there.


Any
impression that this is bullying is down to the false claims of the
Leave campaign about how easy Brexit would be and that they need us more
than we need them.



Pull the other one, its got bells on.

Anyone who still believes the EU is fundamentally benevolent is either
lacking in mental ability, or German.


--
The New Left are the people they warned you about.

On Tuesday, 13 March 2018 10:29:47 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...lly-uk-brexit/

"Two in three people believe the European Union is attempting to €�bully€¢
the UK in the Brexit negotiations, according to a new poll.

A survey carried out for the Telegraph reveals that while the split of
Leave and Remain voters is largely unchanged since the referendum,
67#per cent of individuals, regardless of their voting preference,
agreed that €�the EU is trying to bully the UK€¢ in its approach to the
talks."

Of course the Torygraph will publish a survey to saying what its readers
want to read. That the correct way is for the UK to bully the EU into
giving it what it wants. After leavers slagging it off in every possible
way, too.

Thanks for confirming you don't understand humans.

A long way from humans, but yesterday the students here decided to occupy a building in order to support the recent strike by academics regarding the pension dispute. After entering the building they knew securiy couldn't/wouldn't remove them, they then asked security if they could leave to go to the toilet and/or get something to eat, of course the reply was if you leave we won't let you back in.
So I'm wondering whether or not the young 18 really should be given a vote on anything important for the country considering they can't even predict their own bowl movements in the next few hours.

This is irrespective of whether they want to leave or remain should we really take ANY notice of people with such a narrow and short experience of life, that they can't predict they need to **** and eat ?

On 13/03/2018 10:28, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Nightjar wrote:
On 13-Mar-18 3:51 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...lly-uk-brexit/


"Two in three people believe the European Union is attempting to €�bully€¢
the UK in the Brexit negotiations, according to a new poll.

A survey carried out for the Telegraph reveals that while the split of
Leave and Remain voters is largely unchanged since the referendum, 67#
per cent of individuals, regardless of their voting preference, agreed
that €�the EU is trying to bully the UK€¢ in its approach to the talks."

The EU is doing what any intelligent person would expect them to do: put
the interests of the EU and its citizens before those of Britain. Any
impression that this is bullying is down to the false claims of the
Leave campaign about how easy Brexit would be and that they need us more
than we need them.

Quite. And now it has been shown just how wrong those optimists were, they
cry foul.


Brexiteers are always going to blame anything that goes wrong on someone
else.

On 13/03/18 11:30, whisky-dave wrote:
So I'm wondering whether or not the young 18 really should be given
a vote on anything important for the country considering they can't
even predict their own bowl movements in the next few hours.

But can they spell 'bowel'?


--
You can get much farther with a kind word and a gun than you can with a
kind word alone.

Al Capone

On 13/03/18 03:51, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...lly-uk-brexit/


"Two in three people believe the European Union is attempting to €œbully€�
the UK in the Brexit negotiations, according to a new poll.

A survey carried out for the Telegraph reveals that while the split of
Leave and Remain voters is largely unchanged since the referendum, 67€‰
per cent of individuals, regardless of their voting preference, agreed
that €œthe EU is trying to bully the UK€� in its approach to the talks."


I would just like to say how impressed I am by tnp. An OT brexit thread,
just like the old days!

Most brexiters have already lost any enthusiasm they once had and are
getting ready to spend the rest of their lives avoiding any talk of it
and never admitting to supporting it. Not tnp though, he's still paying
his ukip subs and waving the brexit flag while the rest of us fill the
cellar with tinned beans and get a stock of seed potatoes in.
TW

On 13/03/18 10:10, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Brian Gaff
wrote:

You need to put yourself in the position of the eu. If it all goes
smoothly with the UK some pretty major members will also want out,
crippling the whole system.

All that shows is that the system is screwed, if the risk that many
would want out is so high.


Get those excuses out ready! there's nothing that can't be blamed on
foreigners when you are a brexiter!
TW

On 13/03/18 12:36, TimW wrote:
On 13/03/18 03:51, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...lly-uk-brexit/


"Two in three people believe the European Union is attempting to
€œbully€� the UK in the Brexit negotiations, according to a new poll.

A survey carried out for the Telegraph reveals that while the split of
Leave and Remain voters is largely unchanged since the referendum, 67€‰
per cent of individuals, regardless of their voting preference, agreed
that €œthe EU is trying to bully the UK€� in its approach to the talks."


I would just like to say how impressed I am by tnp. An OT brexit thread,
just like the old days!

Most brexiters have already lost any enthusiasm they once had and are
getting ready to spend the rest of their lives avoiding any talk of it
and never admitting to supporting it. Not tnp though, he's still paying
his ukip subs and waving the brexit flag while the rest of us fill the
cellar with tinned beans and get a stock of seed potatoes in.

Just as long as you stay there.

I bet in 10 years time only aboyt 3% of the UK will admit they voted to
remain.

So sad, really.


--
"I guess a rattlesnake ain't risponsible fer bein' a rattlesnake, but ah
puts mah heel on um jess the same if'n I catches him around mah chillun".

On 13/03/18 12:38, TimW wrote:
On 13/03/18 10:10, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Brian Gaff
wrote:

You need to put yourself in the position of the eu. If it all goes
smoothly with the UK some pretty major members will also want out,
crippling the whole system.

All that shows is that the system is screwed, if the risk that many
would want out is so high.


Get those excuses out ready! there's nothing that can't be blamed on
foreigners when you are a brexiter!
TW
Get those excuses out ready! there's nothing that can't be blamed on
Braitain when you are in the EU!

--
Climate Change: Socialism wearing a lab coat.

On Tuesday, 13 March 2018 12:36:21 UTC, TimW wrote:
On 13/03/18 03:51, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...lly-uk-brexit/


"Two in three people believe the European Union is attempting to €œbully€�
the UK in the Brexit negotiations, according to a new poll.

A survey carried out for the Telegraph reveals that while the split of
Leave and Remain voters is largely unchanged since the referendum, 67€‰
per cent of individuals, regardless of their voting preference, agreed
that €œthe EU is trying to bully the UK€� in its approach to the talks."


I would just like to say how impressed I am by tnp. An OT brexit thread,
just like the old days!

Most brexiters have already lost any enthusiasm they once had and are
getting ready to spend the rest of their lives avoiding any talk of it
and never admitting to supporting it. Not tnp though, he's still paying
his ukip subs and waving the brexit flag while the rest of us fill the
cellar with tinned beans and get a stock of seed potatoes in.
TW

why do you people think you have to talk complete cobblers to support your position?

In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
You need to put yourself in the position of the eu. If it all goes smoothly
with the UK some pretty major members will also want out, crippling the
whole system.

All that shows is that the system is screwed, if the risk that many
would want out is so high.

That's rather like saying it would be OK to knock down one of the pillars
holding up a bridge. As the remaining ones can do the job just as well.

--
*If they arrest the Energizer Bunny, would they charge it with battery? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
The EU is doing what any intelligent person would expect them to do:
put the interests of the EU and its citizens before those of Britain.

It isn't though is it?

Its acting entirely in its OWN interest

And? Perhaps you think the UK leaving the EU is acting in the interest of
the EU?

Talk about wanting your cake and eating it.

--
*The first rule of holes: If you are in one, stop digging!

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 13/03/18 11:30, whisky-dave wrote:
So I'm wondering whether or not the young 18 really should be given
a vote on anything important for the country considering they can't
even predict their own bowl movements in the next few hours.

But can they spell 'bowel'?

Talk about pot and kettle...

--
*Stable Relationships Are For Horses.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I bet in 10 years time only aboyt 3% of the UK will admit they voted to
remain.

That's because most who voted out will either be dead or nodding away in
some old folk's home. Trying to remember who they are.

Rather like so many on here.

--
*And don't start a sentence with a conjunction *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Tue, 13 Mar 2018 12:36:18 +0000, TimW wrote:

On 13/03/18 03:51, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...-three-people-
believe-eu-trying-bully-uk-brexit/


"Two in three people believe the European Union is attempting to
€œbully€�
the UK in the Brexit negotiations, according to a new poll.

A survey carried out for the Telegraph reveals that while the split of
Leave and Remain voters is largely unchanged since the referendum, 67
per cent of individuals, regardless of their voting preference, agreed
that €œthe EU is trying to bully the UK€� in its approach to the talks."


I would just like to say how impressed I am by tnp. An OT brexit thread,
just like the old days!

Most brexiters have already lost any enthusiasm they once had and are
getting ready to spend the rest of their lives avoiding any talk of it
and never admitting to supporting it. Not tnp though, he's still paying
his ukip subs and waving the brexit flag while the rest of us fill the
cellar with tinned beans and get a stock of seed potatoes in.
TW

At least UKIP subs are cheaper now that they are getting desperate.

--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On Tuesday, 13 March 2018 13:35:17 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
You need to put yourself in the position of the eu. If it all goes smoothly
with the UK some pretty major members will also want out, crippling the
whole system.

All that shows is that the system is screwed, if the risk that many
would want out is so high.

That's rather like saying it would be OK to knock down one of the pillars
holding up a bridge. As the remaining ones can do the job just as well.

Is that like knocking down a non load bearing wall ;-)

On 13/03/18 15:47, Martin wrote:
Which if any major member wants out? This sort of thing only exists in the minds
of the Daily Mail and Daily Express editors minds


Dont you worry.

It will never happen.

Till it happens.

And there is nothing you can do about it.



--
The lifetime of any political organisation is about three years before
its been subverted by the people it tried to warn you about.

Anon.

On 13/03/18 15:48, Martin wrote:
On Tue, 13 Mar 2018 10:26:04 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Brian Gaff wrote:
Also did you hear Vince Cables recent speech? If not and you want a
laugh, go and listen to it. How to alienate everyone over retirement
age by suggesting they all voted out due to hankering for a rose
coloured past that never actually existed. Not the way to get Lib Dems
elected, MR Cable.

Like many politicians in no position to do anything about it, he spoke a
great deal of sense.

And that part was very true. Many hankering back to 'the good ol' days'.
Just like Trump's 'Lets make America great again' without actually a clue
or plan on how to.

The good old days of WWII seem to be very popular.

Well the EU seems to want to go back to the 19th century German Empire.



--
The lifetime of any political organisation is about three years before
its been subverted by the people it tried to warn you about.

Anon.

In article , The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
On 13/03/18 15:48, Martin wrote:
On Tue, 13 Mar 2018 10:26:04 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article , Brian Gaff
wrote:
Also did you hear Vince Cables recent speech? If not and you want a
laugh, go and listen to it. How to alienate everyone over retirement
age by suggesting they all voted out due to hankering for a rose
coloured past that never actually existed. Not the way to get Lib
Dems elected, MR Cable.

Like many politicians in no position to do anything about it, he spoke
a great deal of sense.

And that part was very true. Many hankering back to 'the good ol'
days'. Just like Trump's 'Lets make America great again' without
actually a clue or plan on how to.

The good old days of WWII seem to be very popular.

Well the EU seems to want to go back to the 19th century German Empire.

whereas then Brexiteers want rto go back to the Victorian British Empire.

a re-run of WW1, anyone?

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

On 13/03/2018 10:26, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Just like Trump's 'Lets make America great again' without actually a clue
or plan on how to.

Not forgetting Putins 'Lets make people pay attention to Russia again',

and Xi wots his name in China doing a Mugabe or Chavez.

Both sabre rattling about their hypersonic weapons that no-one
has seen in operation.

On 13/03/2018 11:54, dennis@home wrote:
On 13/03/2018 10:28, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Â*Â*Â* Nightjar wrote:
On 13-Mar-18 3:51 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...lly-uk-brexit/



"Two in three people believe the European Union is attempting to
€�bully€¢
the UK in the Brexit negotiations, according to a new poll.

A survey carried out for the Telegraph reveals that while the split of
Leave and Remain voters is largely unchanged since the referendum, 67#
per cent of individuals, regardless of their voting preference, agreed
that €�the EU is trying to bully the UK€¢ in its approach to the talks."

The EU is doing what any intelligent person would expect them to do: put
the interests of the EU and its citizens before those of Britain. Any
impression that this is bullying is down to the false claims of the
Leave campaign about how easy Brexit would be and that they need us more
than we need them.

Quite. And now it has been shown just how wrong those optimists were,
they
cry foul.


Brexiteers are always going to blame anything that goes wrong on someone
else.

So far, all the dire predictions by the likes of Osborne have yet to
materialise. Nor has the US economy collapsed, so Trump might, just,
get away with it.

On 13-Mar-18 11:30 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 13/03/18 09:24, Nightjar wrote:
On 13-Mar-18 3:51 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...lly-uk-brexit/


"Two in three people believe the European Union is attempting to
€œbully€� the UK in the Brexit negotiations, according to a new poll.

A survey carried out for the Telegraph reveals that while the split
of Leave and Remain voters is largely unchanged since the referendum,
67€‰ per cent of individuals, regardless of their voting preference,
agreed that €œthe EU is trying to bully the UK€� in its approach to the
talks."

The EU is doing what any intelligent person would expect them to do:
put the interests of the EU and its citizens before those of Britain.

It isn't though is it?

Its acting entirely in its OWN interest. German manufacturers are aghast
at the possibility of a hard brexit, so is Italy. And yet Brussels is
pursuing a course that will inevitably end there...

Only if the internal politics of the Conservative party force that
result, which they might.


--
--

Colin Bignell

On 13/03/18 16:49, Andrew wrote:
So far, all the dire predictions by the likes of Osborne have yet to
materialise. Nor has the US economy collapsed, so Trump might, just,
get away with it.

Trump may not be a great businessman, but he is about 120 streets ahead
of O'Barmy.


--
Karl Marx said religion is the opium of the people.
But Marxism is the crack cocaine.

In article ,
Andrew wrote:
On 13/03/2018 10:26, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Just like Trump's 'Lets make America great again' without actually a
clue or plan on how to.

Not forgetting Putins 'Lets make people pay attention to Russia again',

and Xi wots his name in China doing a Mugabe or Chavez.

Both sabre rattling about their hypersonic weapons that no-one
has seen in operation.

Quite. So an ideal time for us to be distancing ourselves from our allies
in Europe.

--
*In some places, C:\ is the root of all directories *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 13/03/18 16:49, Andrew wrote:
So far, all the dire predictions by the likes of Osborne have yet to
materialise. Nor has the US economy collapsed, so Trump might, just,
get away with it.

Trump may not be a great businessman, but he is about 120 streets ahead
of O'Barmy.

No surprise you think going bankrupt the sign of a better businessman.

--
*One nice thing about egotists: they don't talk about other people.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 13/03/18 16:37, charles wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
On 13/03/18 15:48, Martin wrote:
On Tue, 13 Mar 2018 10:26:04 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article , Brian Gaff
wrote:
Also did you hear Vince Cables recent speech? If not and you want a
laugh, go and listen to it. How to alienate everyone over retirement
age by suggesting they all voted out due to hankering for a rose
coloured past that never actually existed. Not the way to get Lib
Dems elected, MR Cable.

Like many politicians in no position to do anything about it, he spoke
a great deal of sense.

And that part was very true. Many hankering back to 'the good ol'
days'. Just like Trump's 'Lets make America great again' without
actually a clue or plan on how to.

The good old days of WWII seem to be very popular.

Well the EU seems to want to go back to the 19th century German Empire.

whereas then Brexiteers want rto go back to the Victorian British Empire.


No, we want to go forward to a 21st century global society . Not stay
stuck in a colonial model

a re-run of WW1, anyone?

Well if the EU has its way, yes.



--
Theres a mighty big difference between good, sound reasons and reasons
that sound good.

Burton Hillis (William Vaughn, American columnist)

On 13/03/2018 09:34, T i m wrote:
On Tue, 13 Mar 2018 09:08:06 -0000, "tim..."
wrote:

snip

and not on what the actual end result might be,

And that's the issue.

Brexiteers have all voiced various things that are important to them
re us leaving the EU but not one of them knew what they would actually
get, or what 'strength' of any of the facets they thought they were
voting for they would get and many (the sensible ones) may well not
want it at all if they don't get some / their key points and to a
sufficient level. eg, A bad deal *could* be worse than no deal (and
either could still be a disaster for all of us). We aren't going to
get a 'good deal', why would we (unless it costs us the same or more
than it's costing us now).

The Remainers voted to retain what we have now (no one can predict the
future so what we have *now* is all anyone could vote for logically)
but at least it was 'a known'.

I wonder which countries we will look to re support against Russia?

I can see all of the EU turning their backs on us just, as we are
doing to them.

Not so, the EU and US have today announced full backing for the UK's
stance against Russia.

Maybe we could end up being part of Russia, like Ukraine ... and I'm
guessing the Brexiteers would consider that better than being part of
the EU?

I'm sure all this is covered in the 'Brexiteers spreadsheet'. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

"Nightjar" wrote in message
...
On 13-Mar-18 11:30 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 13/03/18 09:24, Nightjar wrote:
On 13-Mar-18 3:51 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...lly-uk-brexit/

"Two in three people believe the European Union is attempting to
€œbully€� the UK in the Brexit negotiations, according to a new poll.

A survey carried out for the Telegraph reveals that while the split of
Leave and Remain voters is largely unchanged since the referendum, 67per
cent of individuals, regardless of their voting preference, agreed that
€œthe EU is trying to bully the UK€� in its approach to the talks."

The EU is doing what any intelligent person would expect them to do: put
the interests of the EU and its citizens before those of Britain.

It isn't though is it?

Its acting entirely in its OWN interest. German manufacturers are aghast
at the possibility of a hard brexit, so is Italy. And yet Brussels is
pursuing a course that will inevitably end there...

Only if the internal politics of the Conservative party force that result,
which they might.

so which of the two unpalatable solutions to NI that the EU appear to be
forcing us to choose between, would you choose?

tim

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 13/03/18 16:49, Andrew wrote:
So far, all the dire predictions by the likes of Osborne have yet to
materialise. Nor has the US economy collapsed, so Trump might, just,
get away with it.

Trump may not be a great businessman, but he is about 120 streets ahead
of O'Barmy.

No surprise you think going bankrupt the sign of a better businessman.

most Americans do.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Andrew wrote:
On 13/03/2018 10:26, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Just like Trump's 'Lets make America great again' without actually a
clue or plan on how to.

Not forgetting Putins 'Lets make people pay attention to Russia again',

and Xi wots his name in China doing a Mugabe or Chavez.

Both sabre rattling about their hypersonic weapons that no-one
has seen in operation.

Quite. So an ideal time for us to be distancing ourselves from our allies
in Europe.

These would be the allies that don't actually do anything to back us up in
our diplomatic disputes, would it?

tim

"Tufnell Park" wrote in message
news
On 13/03/2018 09:34, T i m wrote:
On Tue, 13 Mar 2018 09:08:06 -0000, "tim..."
wrote:

snip

and not on what the actual end result might be,

And that's the issue.

Brexiteers have all voiced various things that are important to them
re us leaving the EU but not one of them knew what they would actually
get, or what 'strength' of any of the facets they thought they were
voting for they would get and many (the sensible ones) may well not
want it at all if they don't get some / their key points and to a
sufficient level. eg, A bad deal *could* be worse than no deal (and
either could still be a disaster for all of us). We aren't going to
get a 'good deal', why would we (unless it costs us the same or more
than it's costing us now).

The Remainers voted to retain what we have now (no one can predict the
future so what we have *now* is all anyone could vote for logically)
but at least it was 'a known'.

I wonder which countries we will look to re support against Russia?

I can see all of the EU turning their backs on us just, as we are
doing to them.

Not so, the EU and US have today announced full backing for the UK's
stance against Russia.

words are free

My money's on the EU not actually agreeing to do anything substantial. They
really need all the Russian gas they can get.

tim

On 13-Mar-18 7:27 PM, tim... wrote:


"Nightjar" wrote in message
...
On 13-Mar-18 11:30 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 13/03/18 09:24, Nightjar wrote:
On 13-Mar-18 3:51 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...lly-uk-brexit/


"Two in three people believe the European Union is attempting to
Â*€œbully€� the UK in the Brexit negotiations, according to a new poll.

A survey carried out for the Telegraph reveals that while the split
of Leave and Remain voters is largely unchanged since the
referendum, 67per cent of individuals, regardless of their voting
preference, agreed that €œthe EU is trying to bully the UK€� in its
approach to the talks."

The EU is doing what any intelligent person would expect them to do:
put the interests of the EU and its citizens before those of Britain.

It isn't though is it?

Its acting entirely in its OWN interest. German manufacturers are
aghast at the possibility of a hard brexit, so is Italy. And yet
Brussels is pursuing a course that will inevitably end there...

Only if the internal politics of the Conservative party force that
result, which they might.

so which of the two unpalatable solutions to NI that the EU appear to be
forcing us to choose between, would you choose?

The sensible solution would be to stay in the single market, but May's
back benchers don't want that, while the DUP don't want a border in the
Irish Sea. Either way, it comes down to internal party politics.


--
--

Colin Bignell