Lots round here have been without water for 3 days now. Thames Water (in
part) blaming it on increased demand after the thaw. Interesting theory -
do people water their garden just after the snow goes?

Water pressure here has been poor for ever. To keep leaks down from the
ancient infrastructure. Perhaps it is time Thames Water was privatized so
they can raise money for investment. Or have I got that wrong? ;-)

--
*I am a nobody, and nobody is perfect; therefore I am perfect*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
Lots round here have been without water for 3 days now. Thames Water (in
part) blaming it on increased demand after the thaw. Interesting theory -
do people water their garden just after the snow goes?

Water pressure here has been poor for ever. To keep leaks down from the
ancient infrastructure. Perhaps it is time Thames Water was privatized so
they can raise money for investment. Or have I got that wrong? ;-)

**** happens

In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Lots round here have been without water for 3 days now. Thames Water (in
part) blaming it on increased demand after the thaw. Interesting theory -
do people water their garden just after the snow goes?

There are other reasons than watering the garden for using more water. The
waste pipe to our bath froze up. (possibly caused by a dripping tap) So no
baths for 3 days. Other people wouldn't have had baths because their
boilers failed and they ddin't want cold baths.


Water pressure here has been poor for ever. To keep leaks down from the
ancient infrastructure. Perhaps it is time Thames Water was privatized so
they can raise money for investment. Or have I got that wrong? ;-)

Yes - the cold was sufficient to freeze some underground mains - which
burst - certainly in Sussex and Kent.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

On 05/03/2018 11:11, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Lots round here have been without water for 3 days now. Thames Water (in
part) blaming it on increased demand after the thaw. Interesting theory -
do people water their garden just after the snow goes?


You seem to have missed the explanation (that many pipes burst as a
result of last week's weather) that I have seen or heard on TV, radio,
online and in print. One major problem in your vicinity was due to be
fixed this afternoon.

On top of that there is often a surge as people wash the salt/grid off
their drives, cars etc.




--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 05-Mar-18 4:18 PM, Jethro_uk wrote:
...
Sicily was the first time I saw a gas powered fridge ...


They have been with us as a commercial product for the best part of a
century, although the technology dates from 1858. Very popular in
caravans and boats.


--
--

Colin Bignell

Nightjar wrote:

Jethro_uk wrote:

a gas powered fridge ...

They have been with us as a commercial product for the best part of a
century

We had one in the 70's, Dad worked for the gas-board and got discount.

On Mon, 05 Mar 2018 11:11:01 +0000 (GMT), Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Lots round here have been without water for 3 days now.

Meh, there are people round here still snowed in... 6 days, some
without water and/or fuel for space heating and/or food(*). Mostly
along or off the back road to Nenthead, The snow blower has had a go
at that today.

Hartside is still closed, two snow blowers and ploughs working on
that for at least 3 full days now, they might get it open tommorow. I
don't think they have done more than look at the B6277 past the Ski
Tow.

(*) The less well prepared, but even the well prepared are now
starting to phone out and say "Can some one come and dig us out
please".

Interesting theory - do people water their garden just after the snow
goes?

Ground heave due to the freezing that then fractures the mains.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 05/03/2018 18:19, Nightjar wrote:
They have been with us as a commercial product for the best part of a
century, although the technology dates from 1858. Very popular in
caravans and boats.

1858? The one I know

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einstein_refrigerator

is 1926. By a couple of guys called Einstein ans Szilard you may have
heard of.

Andy

In article ,
Robin wrote:
On 05/03/2018 11:11, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Lots round here have been without water for 3 days now. Thames Water
(in part) blaming it on increased demand after the thaw. Interesting
theory - do people water their garden just after the snow goes?


You seem to have missed the explanation (that many pipes burst as a
result of last week's weather) that I have seen or heard on TV, radio,
online and in print.

Given how old most of the pipework is, are you saying this is the hardest
winter since it was installed?


One major problem in your vicinity was due to be
fixed this afternoon.

You seem to have more information than we have. It did come on at a
trickle this afternoon, but is off again this evening.

On top of that there is often a surge as people wash the salt/grid off
their drives, cars etc.

You must work for their PR department.

--
*Real men don't waste their hormones growing hair

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 05/03/2018 23:49, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Robin wrote:
On 05/03/2018 11:11, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Lots round here have been without water for 3 days now. Thames Water
(in part) blaming it on increased demand after the thaw. Interesting
theory - do people water their garden just after the snow goes?


You seem to have missed the explanation (that many pipes burst as a
result of last week's weather) that I have seen or heard on TV, radio,
online and in print.

Given how old most of the pipework is, are you saying this is the hardest
winter since it was installed?

No. Nor is it the first winter that has led to burst pipes.


One major problem in your vicinity was due to be
fixed this afternoon.

You seem to have more information than we have. It did come on at a
trickle this afternoon, but is off again this evening.

I am sorry if my source of information hasn't reached you yet. It's The
Evening Standard.

On top of that there is often a surge as people wash the salt/grid off
their drives, cars etc.

You must work for their PR department.



--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

No its corporate amnesia. In the old days the experienced people in charge,
knowing the lack of maintenance over the years would get in extra staff when
a big freeze was followed by a big thaw, and there would be people on the
ground to fix it asap.
However since experience costs money, we are now in the as and when needed
type of employment and the knowledgeable people all went some years back.
Thus you get a sudden demand due to lots of leaks springing up.
If of course the pipes had been regularly checked and made good a lot of
this could be avoided.

Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
Lots round here have been without water for 3 days now. Thames Water (in
part) blaming it on increased demand after the thaw. Interesting theory -
do people water their garden just after the snow goes?

Water pressure here has been poor for ever. To keep leaks down from the
ancient infrastructure. Perhaps it is time Thames Water was privatized so
they can raise money for investment. Or have I got that wrong? ;-)

--
*I am a nobody, and nobody is perfect; therefore I am perfect*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 05-Mar-18 11:02 PM, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 05/03/2018 18:19, Nightjar wrote:
They have been with us as a commercial product for the best part of a
century, although the technology dates from 1858. Very popular in
caravans and boats.

1858?

As an ice making machine, rather than as a refrigerator:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferdinand_Carr%C3%A9

The one I know

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einstein_refrigerator

is 1926. By a couple of guys called Einstein ans Szilard you may have
heard of.

AB Arctic produced a commercial refrigerator, based on an improvement to
the original cycle, in 1923. Electrolux AB bought AB Arctic in 1925 and,
as your article mentions, also later bought out the main Einstein patents.

--
--

Colin Bignell

On 06/03/2018 09:13, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Brian Gaff
wrote:

No its corporate amnesia. In the old days the experienced people in
charge, knowing the lack of maintenance over the years would get in
extra staff when a big freeze was followed by a big thaw, and there
would be people on the ground to fix it asap.

It has been so long since a big thaw that most have moved on. The
corporate memory has been lost in early retirement/redundancies.

However since experience costs money, we are now in the as and when
needed type of employment and the knowledgeable people all went some
years back.
Thus you get a sudden demand due to lots of leaks springing up.
If of course the pipes had been regularly checked andÂ* made good a lot
of this could be avoided.

You mean dig the road up just to inspect the water pipe?

The old technique was a sort of pole which the old guy who checked such
things put his ear to and behaved pretty much like a stethoscope. You
can hear leaks and free running water underground with such a device.

These days I expect they do it with headphones and an acoustic sensor if
they bother to do it at all. Noisiest spot usually above the leak (and
certainly above the place where water is falling the furthest).

Hell of a lot of potholes on the roads too now that the snow has
cleared. All the bodge it and scarper "repairs" from last summer have
lifted from ice expansion and been pulverised by passing snowploughs.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 06/03/2018 11:15, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Tue, 06 Mar 2018 11:09:12 +0000, Martin Brown wrote:

These days I expect they do it with headphones and an acoustic sensor if
they bother to do it at all.

Recent reports suggest dowsing ....

Ground penetrating radar is the bees knees for finding hidden pipes and
disturbed earth trenches. Pretty much the only way for the older yellow
plastic gas pipes before they added a metallic strip.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 06/03/2018 11:09, Martin Brown wrote:


The old technique was a sort of pole which the old guy who checked
such things put his ear to and behaved pretty much like a
stethoscope. You can hear leaks and free running water underground
with such a device.

We had a water company employee going around with a stick listening to
the stop taps a couple of years ago. It was 3 in the morning.

dennis@home wrote:
On 06/03/2018 11:09, Martin Brown wrote:


The old technique was a sort of pole which the old guy who checked
such things put his ear to and behaved pretty much like a
stethoscope. You can hear leaks and free running water underground
with such a device.

We had a water company employee going around with a stick listening to
the stop taps a couple of years ago. It was 3 in the morning.



Its still very much current practice.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

On 05/03/2018 18:40, Andy Burns wrote:
Nightjar wrote:

Jethro_uk wrote:

a gas powered fridge ...

They have been with us as a commercial product for the best part of a
century

We had one in the 70's, Dad worked for the gas-board and got discount.

I had one until about 2006. Made by electrolux and it had an electric
heater, but they also sold kits that allowed it to run on gas or
paraffin. Any source of heat really. It was completely silent which
was their main selling feature in this country. My house was built
in 1976 with a 1/2 inch gas point in the kitchen for just such a fridge
but you could also get gas tumble driers in those days too.

We had one in the path labs at Barts in the 70's, but it leaked and
filled the whole path block with ammonia. We had to get LFB out to
ventilate the building and chuck the offending fridge out.

Still common in Oz I believe for people in the outback. These days
I expect solar panels with batteries and an inverter would be more
effective.

On 05/03/2018 17:28, charles wrote:
In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Lots round here have been without water for 3 days now. Thames Water (in
part) blaming it on increased demand after the thaw. Interesting theory -
do people water their garden just after the snow goes?

There are other reasons than watering the garden for using more water. The
waste pipe to our bath froze up. (possibly caused by a dripping tap) So no
baths for 3 days. Other people wouldn't have had baths because their
boilers failed and they ddin't want cold baths.


Water pressure here has been poor for ever. To keep leaks down from the
ancient infrastructure. Perhaps it is time Thames Water was privatized so
they can raise money for investment. Or have I got that wrong? ;-)

Yes - the cold was sufficient to freeze some underground mains - which
burst - certainly in Sussex and Kent.


I think the problem is frost heave which snaps old-fashioned pipes, of
which there are many, many miles.

Add on 44 tonne lorries and 32 million cars.

On 06-Mar-18 6:13 PM, Andrew wrote:
On 05/03/2018 18:40, Andy Burns wrote:
Nightjar wrote:

Jethro_uk wrote:

a gas powered fridge ...

They have been with us as a commercial product for the best part of a
century

We had one in the 70's, Dad worked for the gas-board and got discount.

I had one until about 2006. Made by electrolux and it had an electric
heater, but they also sold kits that allowed it to run on gas or
paraffin. Any source of heat really. It was completely silent which
was their main selling feature in this country. My house was built
in 1976 with a 1/2 inch gas point in the kitchen for just such a fridge
but you could also get gas tumble driers in those days too.

We had one in the path labs at Barts in the 70's, but it leaked and
filled the whole path block with ammonia. We had to get LFB out to
ventilate the building and chuck the offending fridge out.

Still common in Oz I believe for people in the outback. These days
I expect solar panels with batteries and an inverter would be more
effective.

You can use solar panels as the heat source for Electrolux cycle fridges.

--
--

Colin Bignell

Andrew wrote:

but you could also get gas tumble driers in those days too.

You still can but given that you can buy a heat pump based machine for very
similar money with the same low drying costs these days I think their day
is past.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

Andrew wrote:
On 05/03/2018 17:28, charles wrote:
In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Lots round here have been without water for 3 days now. Thames Water (in
part) blaming it on increased demand after the thaw. Interesting theory -
do people water their garden just after the snow goes?

There are other reasons than watering the garden for using more water. The
waste pipe to our bath froze up. (possibly caused by a dripping tap) So no
baths for 3 days. Other people wouldn't have had baths because their
boilers failed and they ddin't want cold baths.


Water pressure here has been poor for ever. To keep leaks down from the
ancient infrastructure. Perhaps it is time Thames Water was privatized so
they can raise money for investment. Or have I got that wrong? ;-)

Yes - the cold was sufficient to freeze some underground mains - which
burst - certainly in Sussex and Kent.


I think the problem is frost heave which snaps old-fashioned pipes, of
which there are many, many miles.

Add on 44 tonne lorries and 32 million cars.


I find the concept of the soil freezing to sufficient depth to freeze mains
implausible or €œfrost heave€� affecting buried mains. Im not denying the
association between the cold weather and the leaks, just that I think the
explanations sound unlikely.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

On 06/03/2018 19:06, Tim+ wrote:
Andrew wrote:
On 05/03/2018 17:28, charles wrote:
In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Lots round here have been without water for 3 days now. Thames Water (in
part) blaming it on increased demand after the thaw. Interesting theory -
do people water their garden just after the snow goes?

There are other reasons than watering the garden for using more water. The
waste pipe to our bath froze up. (possibly caused by a dripping tap) So no
baths for 3 days. Other people wouldn't have had baths because their
boilers failed and they ddin't want cold baths.


Water pressure here has been poor for ever. To keep leaks down from the
ancient infrastructure. Perhaps it is time Thames Water was privatized so
they can raise money for investment. Or have I got that wrong? ;-)

Yes - the cold was sufficient to freeze some underground mains - which
burst - certainly in Sussex and Kent.


I think the problem is frost heave which snaps old-fashioned pipes, of
which there are many, many miles.

Add on 44 tonne lorries and 32 million cars.

You can probably ignore the cars. Many, many years ago, a TV programme
(it may have been Tomorrow's World) did a story about axle loading and
badly loaded trucks. This was back in the days of a 32 ton maximum. They
tested and concluded that one badly loaded truck caused as much
damage/wear and tear as 125,000 cars!

SteveW

On 06/03/2018 21:35, Steve Walker wrote:

You can probably ignore the cars. Many, many years ago, a TV programme
(it may have been Tomorrow's World) did a story about axle loading and
badly loaded trucks. This was back in the days of a 32 ton maximum. They
tested and concluded that one badly loaded truck caused as much
damage/wear and tear as 125,000 cars!

Road damage is proportional to the 4th power of the weight. This formula
is widely used.

Andy