On Sat, 10 Feb 2018 01:57:36 +0000, Fredxx wrote:

On 10/02/2018 00:34, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
It's an obscenity that houses can be snapped up by those with access
to funds then rented out at ridiculous sums to those with almost
nothing.

The obscenity is there is a shortage, encouraging speculators. They know
there is no will to build any more, despite the hot air. Its a major
reason for Brexit.

Nothing to do with Brexit. Tory policy. Sell off all the social housing
you can at a discount, to those who can afford to buy.

Are you suggesting that these houses disappear, and can no longer house
families? Are they all knocked down?

I'm sure they're in the same place as before and housing the same
families, just wondering why this makes any difference to housing demand?

Then the up and
coming poor have to rent in the private sector, putting the profits into
Tory pockets. Including any housing benefit. You just know it makes sense.
To a moron.

Did all those years of Labour after Major build many houses?

I agree about Housing Benefit going to landlords.

The consequence was Brexit, best live with it.

Living with Brexit is not a problem, living with the disaster thats
going to happen if this Conservative shower go unchecked is not
something "best lived with"

To just give up and put everything blindly into the hands of May & Co,
is downright lunacy.

Have you seen what the ******* have been up to over the time they have
been in. Excuses, blame no action, just blame others for their
incompetence.

They are a sick joke, and to give the idiots free reign is something
generations will hate us for.

Stick your head in the sand if you want to, but dont expect anyone
with a bit of nous to "live with it". It's not democracy it's total
crass stupidity.

AB

AB

On Sat, 10 Feb 2018 02:04:48 +0000, Fredxx wrote:

On 10/02/2018 01:16, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote:
On Sat, 10 Feb 2018 00:34:03 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
It's an obscenity that houses can be snapped up by those with access
to funds then rented out at ridiculous sums to those with almost
nothing.

The obscenity is there is a shortage, encouraging speculators. They know
there is no will to build any more, despite the hot air. Its a major
reason for Brexit.

Nothing to do with Brexit. Tory policy. Sell off all the social housing
you can at a discount, to those who can afford to buy. Then the up and
coming poor have to rent in the private sector, putting the profits into
Tory pockets. Including any housing benefit. You just know it makes sense.
To a moron.

Thank God. Sometimes I feel that the entire country has lost sight of
the Blasted obvious.

Are you are so stupid to believe when houses are sold they can no longer
house families? Really?

They are going into the private sector and not being replaced, the
homes are being sold on the open market and social housing is not
being built anymore.

Often the houses are not even occupied, the UK is full of vacant
properties, just being kept for investment.

It's a skewed market, the normal rules of supply and demand do not
hold because supply is limited artificially.

The current shortage has been going ever since the sell off started,
bbut that was driven by greed, powergrabbing and a bit of ameteurish
social engineering. Or were you on another planet when Shirly Porter
was getting rid of the labour voting peasants?



What will be interesting is when we do "take control", there will
still be a large number of the population who are going to be far far
worse off than now. If the None British have all left, the only
scapegoats are going to be the unemployed and unemployment will be on
the whim of the employer.

We'll have to see. It depends on what you mean by 'worse off'. Does that
mean homeless or 30 and living with parents because you can't afford a
house?

What does a house actually cost to build in man hours and materials?

The problem isn't simply "cant afford". If you restrict the supply,
the price goes up, simple as that.


We are about to hand every aspect of the UK's future to a shower who's
only guiding philosophy is greed and self interest.

Quite, businesses want cheap labour at any cost, culminating the
explosion of in-work benefits.

Incidentally, like it or not, there will be no need or purpose for the
NHS.

You're not very bright in thinking that. I guess when Corbyn has
decimated all around him, you may be right.

Well I didn't vote for Brexit and I didn't vote Conservative for
decades, so I would think it puts my mental abilities a little higher
than yours.

With Britains defence increasingly moving toward technology, why keep
a population healthy and supporting troops when the button pushers are
doing the fighting?

That does seem to be a Remain theme, keep wages low, gig economy.

It's what's happening. The rest of the EU are putting checks in to
limit the problems it causes.

It wont cause the UK problems because it will be a case of work or
die.

Of course it's all scaremongering to the Brexiteers, but there are
Brexiteers that are too thick to see what's happening and Brexiteers
that are going to do very well indeed from the mess.

We'll have to see what happens, so far so good. Some of us have already
seem a pay increase, something that hasn't happened for 10 years due to
suppressed wages from immigration.

Er I think that if you ask someone, they may just mention that we are
still in the EU.

Nothing has happened yet, apart from the pound plummeting. So the wage
rises are not something to be happy about, they are simply less of a
wage drop than the general population have had to suffer.


Neither would welcome debate on the subject.

Not much point when you keep your fingers in your ears.

Well maybe you should listen more?

AB

In article ,
Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote:
Of course it's all scaremongering to the Brexiteers, but there are
Brexiteers that are too thick to see what's happening and Brexiteers
that are going to do very well indeed from the mess.

A large number who voted Brexit simply wanted change - at any price. And
I'd say they will find out what that price actually is. Far more than they
can afford, and definitely not what they were promised by the likes of
Farage and his cronies.

Never quite understood why so many believed rabble rousers like Farage.
Who never was in any position to deliver his promises.

--
*I'm not as think as you drunk I am.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
On 10/02/2018 00:34, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
It's an obscenity that houses can be snapped up by those with access
to funds then rented out at ridiculous sums to those with almost
nothing.

The obscenity is there is a shortage, encouraging speculators. They know
there is no will to build any more, despite the hot air. Its a major
reason for Brexit.

Nothing to do with Brexit. Tory policy. Sell off all the social housing
you can at a discount, to those who can afford to buy.

Are you suggesting that these houses disappear, and can no longer house
families? Are they all knocked down?

They are no longer part of the social housing pool. Thought that would be
obvious to everyone. As it would be that not everyone can afford to buy a
place to live.

I'm sure they're in the same place as before and housing the same
families, just wondering why this makes any difference to housing demand?

You jest? Most round here were sold as soon as the ink was dry. Those new
owners moved to a cheaper area, pushing the housing prices up there.

Then the up and coming poor have to rent in the private sector,
putting the profits into Tory pockets. Including any housing benefit.
You just know it makes sense. To a moron.

Did all those years of Labour after Major build many houses?

We never had a proper socialist government after Major. Too busy trying to
appeal to everyone to sort out the mess Thatcher left.

I agree about Housing Benefit going to landlords.

Of course you do. Wouldn't do for it to give the best value.

The consequence was Brexit, best live with it.

And absolutely none of it had anything to do with the EU.

--
*Some people are only alive because it is illegal to kill.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sat, 10 Feb 2018 11:08:27 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote:
Of course it's all scaremongering to the Brexiteers, but there are
Brexiteers that are too thick to see what's happening and Brexiteers
that are going to do very well indeed from the mess.

A large number who voted Brexit simply wanted change - at any price. And
I'd say they will find out what that price actually is. Far more than they
can afford, and definitely not what they were promised by the likes of
Farage and his cronies.

Never quite understood why so many believed rabble rousers like Farage.
Who never was in any position to deliver his promises.

Quite, or in other words it does not take someone with an IQ beyond
single digits much reasoning to work out what a pig in a poke looks
like, and indeed what the pig looks like when the poke is stripped
away.


The only marginal excuse was the scaremongering that was trotted out
during the Scottish referendum, so really as far as stretching the
truth on the gloom & doom front went, the remain MP's had "form".



AB

On 09/02/18 23:59, Fredxx wrote:
On 09/02/2018 21:36, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote:

Migrants are not the problem, once again they are being used as a
scapegoat for tha failiures of government.

They are only a problem in terms of housing demand due to their numbers.
Are you in denial the UK population has increased by 3m over the past 10
years?

7.6 million between 1998 and 2017 (ONS data) of which net immigration
was 4.5 million from a starting point of 58.5 million.

13% increase in 20 years.

Of course that affected house prices, put massive pressure on the NHS
and other infrastructure - anyone who says otherwise would have to be
quite deluded.

On Sat, 10 Feb 2018 13:39:49 +0000, Tim Watts
wrote:

On 09/02/18 23:59, Fredxx wrote:
On 09/02/2018 21:36, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote:

Migrants are not the problem, once again they are being used as a
scapegoat for tha failiures of government.

They are only a problem in terms of housing demand due to their numbers.
Are you in denial the UK population has increased by 3m over the past 10
years?

7.6 million between 1998 and 2017 (ONS data) of which net immigration
was 4.5 million from a starting point of 58.5 million.

13% increase in 20 years.

Of course that affected house prices, put massive pressure on the NHS
and other infrastructure - anyone who says otherwise would have to be
quite deluded.

13% increase in tax revenues, of course with the Conservative catering
for their friends so fervently, 13% more housing will not have been
built, but everyone in an average job will have to get used to living
with a few generations of their family.

We should perhaps provide a refund to those migrants who feel they
have to return. Statistically they will have paid in far more to the
system than they have received.

They are an excuse full stop!!

The trouble is, they will go home now and things will probably reflect
on the British people in the rest of Europe. Of course the thick self
centered simplistic Brexiteers dont factor things like that into their
reasoning do they?

AB

In article ,
Tim Watts wrote:
On 09/02/18 23:59, Fredxx wrote:
On 09/02/2018 21:36, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote:

Migrants are not the problem, once again they are being used as a
scapegoat for tha failiures of government.

They are only a problem in terms of housing demand due to their numbers.
Are you in denial the UK population has increased by 3m over the past 10
years?

7.6 million between 1998 and 2017 (ONS data) of which net immigration
was 4.5 million from a starting point of 58.5 million.

13% increase in 20 years.

Of course that affected house prices, put massive pressure on the NHS
and other infrastructure - anyone who says otherwise would have to be
quite deluded.

Odd that all the shops and so on seemed to cope perfectly well with this
extra population. Unless you have queues for them round your way - like
some failed state.

Any government not realising extra population means extra spending on the
infrastructure comes as no surprise, though.

--
*CAN VEGETARIANS EAT ANIMAL CRACKERS?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sat, 10 Feb 2018 13:54:35 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Tim Watts wrote:
On 09/02/18 23:59, Fredxx wrote:
On 09/02/2018 21:36, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote:

Migrants are not the problem, once again they are being used as a
scapegoat for tha failiures of government.

They are only a problem in terms of housing demand due to their numbers.
Are you in denial the UK population has increased by 3m over the past 10
years?

7.6 million between 1998 and 2017 (ONS data) of which net immigration
was 4.5 million from a starting point of 58.5 million.

13% increase in 20 years.

Of course that affected house prices, put massive pressure on the NHS
and other infrastructure - anyone who says otherwise would have to be
quite deluded.

Odd that all the shops and so on seemed to cope perfectly well with this
extra population. Unless you have queues for them round your way - like
some failed state.

Any government not realising extra population means extra spending on the
infrastructure comes as no surprise, though.

Yes it certainly explains the lack of enthusiasm to do anything to
stop migrants coming in, and indeed ensure that those already in had a
right to remain.

Did it backfire on them, or was the outcome intended all along?

AB

On 10/02/18 00:34, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
It's an obscenity that houses can be snapped up by those with access
to funds then rented out at ridiculous sums to those with almost
nothing.

The obscenity is there is a shortage, encouraging speculators. They know
there is no will to build any more, despite the hot air. Its a major
reason for Brexit.

Nothing to do with Brexit. Tory policy. Sell off all the social housing
you can at a discount, to those who can afford to buy. Then the up and
coming poor have to rent in the private sector, putting the profits into
Tory pockets. Including any housing benefit. You just know it makes sense.
To a moron.


Actually Blair and Roche's policy of massive net immigration starting in
1998 - as per other post:

7.6 million between 1998 and 2017 (ONS data) of which net immigration
was 4.5 million from a starting point of 58.5 million.

13% increase in 20 years.


So that's the demand radically altered.

I agree with you on the council houses - she should have required they
be replaced 1:1, rather than (as I understand it) preventing replacement
stock being built for council housing.

Also you have Brown's disastrous de-regulation of the banking sector
that led to insane mortgages (ie not 3.5x salary and 5-10% deposit
required) becoming the norm.

So if we're blaming party politics, it's as much Labour's fault as the
Tories.

On 10/02/18 01:57, Fredxx wrote:
On 10/02/2018 00:34, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Â*Â*Â* Fredxx wrote:
It's an obscenity that houses can be snapped up by those with access
to funds then rented out at ridiculous sums to those with almost
nothing.

The obscenity is there is a shortage, encouraging speculators. They know
there is no will to build any more, despite the hot air. Its a major
reason for Brexit.

Nothing to do with Brexit. Tory policy. Sell off all the social housing
you can at a discount, to those who can afford to buy.

Are you suggesting that these houses disappear, and can no longer house
families? Are they all knocked down?

I'm sure they're in the same place as before and housing the same
families, just wondering why this makes any difference to housing demand?

You're right on the overall demand part - what it does is disadvantage
the poorer section of society. Remember that a lot of council houses
were occupied by working class families. The overall problem is demand
has gone up.

On 10/02/18 11:08, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote:
Of course it's all scaremongering to the Brexiteers, but there are
Brexiteers that are too thick to see what's happening and Brexiteers
that are going to do very well indeed from the mess.

A large number who voted Brexit simply wanted change - at any price. And
I'd say they will find out what that price actually is. Far more than they
can afford, and definitely not what they were promised by the likes of
Farage and his cronies.

Never quite understood why so many believed rabble rousers like Farage.
Who never was in any position to deliver his promises.


I voted BREXIT because the alternative looked much much worse.

Watch Hungary and Poland - and how the EU treat them in the coming year,
for daring to want to maintain some policies that the EU don't agree with.

On 10/02/18 13:54, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Tim Watts wrote:
On 09/02/18 23:59, Fredxx wrote:
On 09/02/2018 21:36, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote:

Migrants are not the problem, once again they are being used as a
scapegoat for tha failiures of government.

They are only a problem in terms of housing demand due to their numbers.
Are you in denial the UK population has increased by 3m over the past 10
years?

7.6 million between 1998 and 2017 (ONS data) of which net immigration
was 4.5 million from a starting point of 58.5 million.

13% increase in 20 years.

Of course that affected house prices, put massive pressure on the NHS
and other infrastructure - anyone who says otherwise would have to be
quite deluded.

Odd that all the shops and so on seemed to cope perfectly well with this
extra population. Unless you have queues for them round your way - like
some failed state.

Well yes - shops are small scale investments, free from central
government policy at least concerning their existence and are thus
highly liquid in their ability to grow and contract to changes in the
market.

Whereas railway lines, hospitals and major housing increases are the
opposite.

Round my way, every time a new housing project is proposed, half the
village starts whining about "losing the character", "pressure on the
roads" etc. These contain a number of the same people who were very
vocal in their support of "refugees" last year - though they seem to
have gone a bit quiet on that recently.

The correct answer would be to have not exploded the population - but
that was Blair's doing (and every government since who failed to do
anything). Blame also rests squarely with Blair for destabilising the ME
and increasing the number of people who want to do us harm and increase
the supply of genuine refugees escaping war zones.

However, we can't undo that past - what we can do is stop making it
worse and then go build some houses.


Any government not realising extra population means extra spending on the
infrastructure comes as no surprise, though.


Yep...

On 10/02/18 14:10, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote:

Yes it certainly explains the lack of enthusiasm to do anything to
stop migrants coming in, and indeed ensure that those already in had a
right to remain.

And a lot of it had nothing to do with BREXIT - many of our migrants are
ex colonial, on historic migration agreements which really after this
time, need to be ripped up.

But for me, BREXIT was not about mass immigration - it was more about
the EU trying to morph into a Federal Superstate.


Did it backfire on them, or was the outcome intended all along?

AB


Former I think. eg with Merkel inviting the world to move in. Perhaps
she really meant well and was too naive to see what would happen. I'm
not really into "Kalergi plan" orchestrated conspiracies - most
politicians don't have the nous to work to something that long term or
complex.

On 10/02/2018 02:46, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote:
On Sat, 10 Feb 2018 02:04:48 +0000, Fredxx wrote:

On 10/02/2018 01:16, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote:
On Sat, 10 Feb 2018 00:34:03 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
It's an obscenity that houses can be snapped up by those with access
to funds then rented out at ridiculous sums to those with almost
nothing.

The obscenity is there is a shortage, encouraging speculators. They know
there is no will to build any more, despite the hot air. Its a major
reason for Brexit.

Nothing to do with Brexit. Tory policy. Sell off all the social housing
you can at a discount, to those who can afford to buy. Then the up and
coming poor have to rent in the private sector, putting the profits into
Tory pockets. Including any housing benefit. You just know it makes sense.
To a moron.

Thank God. Sometimes I feel that the entire country has lost sight of
the Blasted obvious.

Are you are so stupid to believe when houses are sold they can no longer
house families? Really?

They are going into the private sector and not being replaced, the
homes are being sold on the open market and social housing is not
being built anymore.

So not having a direct affect on housing demand then.

Often the houses are not even occupied, the UK is full of vacant
properties, just being kept for investment.

More in London, and a consequence of rising prices and knowledge
governments won't build more houses.

It's a skewed market, the normal rules of supply and demand do not
hold because supply is limited artificially.

The same rules apply. Shortage in housing means rising prices.

Denial is futile.

The current shortage has been going ever since the sell off started,
bbut that was driven by greed, powergrabbing and a bit of ameteurish
social engineering. Or were you on another planet when Shirly Porter
was getting rid of the labour voting peasants?

No, there was a glut in the 90s and prices dropped. A successful economy
meant prices increased, and when the floodgates were open in 2005 or so,
prices kept going up.

Even in 2007/8 during the crash average house-prices were still 5x
average income. Something unprecedented in a 'crash'. Normally, as per
90's crashes prices tends to dip to 2.5x average income.

What will be interesting is when we do "take control", there will
still be a large number of the population who are going to be far far
worse off than now. If the None British have all left, the only
scapegoats are going to be the unemployed and unemployment will be on
the whim of the employer.

We'll have to see. It depends on what you mean by 'worse off'. Does that
mean homeless or 30 and living with parents because you can't afford a
house?

What does a house actually cost to build in man hours and materials?

The problem isn't simply "cant afford". If you restrict the supply,
the price goes up, simple as that.

Great, we are talking supply here, so the great sell-off didn't affect
supply, ie none were knocked down.

We are about to hand every aspect of the UK's future to a shower who's
only guiding philosophy is greed and self interest.

Quite, businesses want cheap labour at any cost, culminating the
explosion of in-work benefits.

Incidentally, like it or not, there will be no need or purpose for the
NHS.

You're not very bright in thinking that. I guess when Corbyn has
decimated all around him, you may be right.

Well I didn't vote for Brexit and I didn't vote Conservative for
decades, so I would think it puts my mental abilities a little higher
than yours.

With Britains defence increasingly moving toward technology, why keep
a population healthy and supporting troops when the button pushers are
doing the fighting?

That does seem to be a Remain theme, keep wages low, gig economy.

It's what's happening. The rest of the EU are putting checks in to
limit the problems it causes.

Which causes unemployment, have a look at France with the most stringent
employment law.

What Brexit will do is shift the supply and demand from the employer to
the worker's benfit
..
It wont cause the UK problems because it will be a case of work or
die.

State benefits are there to stop the dying. You have heard of JSA, HB etc?

Of course it's all scaremongering to the Brexiteers, but there are
Brexiteers that are too thick to see what's happening and Brexiteers
that are going to do very well indeed from the mess.

We'll have to see what happens, so far so good. Some of us have already
seem a pay increase, something that hasn't happened for 10 years due to
suppressed wages from immigration.

Er I think that if you ask someone, they may just mention that we are
still in the EU.

But moving in the right direction. The immigration has been slowed.

Nothing has happened yet, apart from the pound plummeting. So the wage
rises are not something to be happy about, they are simply less of a
wage drop than the general population have had to suffer.

And so makes up for the WTO tariffs. It should help business. Thank god
we're not stuck with the Euro.

Neither would welcome debate on the subject.

Not much point when you keep your fingers in your ears.

Well maybe you should listen more?

I do, I am not happy with David Davies style of negotiation. He could do
a lot better. But at the same time fee we're being sold out by Remoaners
who wish for doom and gloom. Economies can be talked up as well as down.

If you can accept why people voted for Brexit, then we have moved
forward. The future is uncertain, but can't be any worse that allowing
workers from developing countries to come to the UK and reduce wages.

You might see that unemployment is at record lows. That is one indicator
for wage rises in the pipe-line.

On Sat, 10 Feb 2018 14:32:53 +0000, Tim Watts
wrote:

On 10/02/18 13:54, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Tim Watts wrote:
On 09/02/18 23:59, Fredxx wrote:
On 09/02/2018 21:36, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote:

Migrants are not the problem, once again they are being used as a
scapegoat for tha failiures of government.

They are only a problem in terms of housing demand due to their numbers.
Are you in denial the UK population has increased by 3m over the past 10
years?

7.6 million between 1998 and 2017 (ONS data) of which net immigration
was 4.5 million from a starting point of 58.5 million.

13% increase in 20 years.

Of course that affected house prices, put massive pressure on the NHS
and other infrastructure - anyone who says otherwise would have to be
quite deluded.

Odd that all the shops and so on seemed to cope perfectly well with this
extra population. Unless you have queues for them round your way - like
some failed state.

Well yes - shops are small scale investments, free from central
government policy at least concerning their existence and are thus
highly liquid in their ability to grow and contract to changes in the
market.

Whereas railway lines, hospitals and major housing increases are the
opposite.

True. Which is a good reason for more investment there.

Round my way, every time a new housing project is proposed, half the
village starts whining about "losing the character", "pressure on the
roads" etc.

And who are usually ignored.

These contain a number of the same people who were very
vocal in their support of "refugees" last year - though they seem to
have gone a bit quiet on that recently.

Do you really know this?

The correct answer would be to have not exploded the population - but
that was Blair's doing (and every government since who failed to do
anything).

There are many reasons for the population rising. One major factor is
people living longer However the government is trying to address this
issue with cuts to the NHS.

However, we can't undo that past - what we can do is stop making it
worse and then go build some houses.

As others have said is not just about building houses. We need to
make sure empty houses are not just used as investments and allow
people to live in them.

Council houses that are sold off should be replaced.

--
insert witty sig here

On Sat, 10 Feb 2018 14:24:17 +0000, Tim Watts
wrote:

On 10/02/18 11:08, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote:
Of course it's all scaremongering to the Brexiteers, but there are
Brexiteers that are too thick to see what's happening and Brexiteers
that are going to do very well indeed from the mess.

A large number who voted Brexit simply wanted change - at any price. And
I'd say they will find out what that price actually is. Far more than they
can afford, and definitely not what they were promised by the likes of
Farage and his cronies.

Never quite understood why so many believed rabble rousers like Farage.
Who never was in any position to deliver his promises.


I voted BREXIT because the alternative looked much much worse.

Having lived with the alternative for the last 40 years, I can
honestly say that it hasn't been bad at all.

I have also spent a lot of time in an EU country where the government
just gets on with it and governs instead of hoisting the blame for
their ineptidude on the weakest members of society.

Watch Hungary and Poland - and how the EU treat them in the coming year,
for daring to want to maintain some policies that the EU don't agree with.

Ireland does things the EU on the face of it does not allow, like the
unpopular water charges, their government governs, works to find
common ground, solutions.

Pity our shower didn't do the same. The waste and stupidity on water
sites beggars belief.

The shareholders do quite well though,

We're too clever for merely interpreting and changing the rules to
suit our situation, we send scum like Farage to represent us and the
EU makes a terrific scapegoat for all manner of ills anyway!

From my experience of the workforce Poland, and it may well go for
Hungary too, they will be getting a hell of a lot of investment
directed their way.

Flag waving, nationlism and bigotry are all well & good, but it's a
bit like the sterling exchange rate at the moment, the most important
thing is the bottom line & cashflow through every strata of society.

It may not stop some EU members from doing their own thing, but when
you look at what Greece has been through, they obviously think it
worth riding out the storm.


If the only people to do well out of Brexit are going to be the
multimillionaires, it isn't going to help the UK much is it.

Everything I read in the news indicates that those at the bottom end
of the jobs market are going to have a miserable time.

AB

On 10/02/18 14:52, Mark wrote:


And who are usually ignored.

You'd be surprised. Perfectly good brownfield development of an old mill
site was blocked - I thought the plans looked quite good.


These contain a number of the same people who were very
vocal in their support of "refugees" last year - though they seem to
have gone a bit quiet on that recently.

Do you really know this?

Well, yes - when I see the same names expressing support, it kinda gives
the game away!


The correct answer would be to have not exploded the population - but
that was Blair's doing (and every government since who failed to do
anything).

There are many reasons for the population rising. One major factor is
people living longer However the government is trying to address this
issue with cuts to the NHS.

4.5 million are nothing to do with living longer...

However, we can't undo that past - what we can do is stop making it
worse and then go build some houses.

As others have said is not just about building houses. We need to
make sure empty houses are not just used as investments and allow
people to live in them.

We could ban foreigners from owning houses here, unless they have
residency and will live in it I suppose. But IIRC a newspaper looked
into the "Russians own Chelsea" thing and found out, that the effect on
housing stock was not that pronounced after all.

No sensible private investor is depriving the market of hosuing stock,
because, unless they are insane, they will be renting it out,
maintaining the rental stock.

Where are these empty properties? I've not noticed many down south...

Council houses that are sold off should be replaced.


Yes, they should (and I'm right wing, but I believe in a welfare safety
net too).

On Sat, 10 Feb 2018 14:50:55 +0000, Fredxx wrote:

On 10/02/2018 02:46, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote:
On Sat, 10 Feb 2018 02:04:48 +0000, Fredxx wrote:

On 10/02/2018 01:16, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote:
On Sat, 10 Feb 2018 00:34:03 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
It's an obscenity that houses can be snapped up by those with access
to funds then rented out at ridiculous sums to those with almost
nothing.

The obscenity is there is a shortage, encouraging speculators. They know
there is no will to build any more, despite the hot air. Its a major
reason for Brexit.

Nothing to do with Brexit. Tory policy. Sell off all the social housing
you can at a discount, to those who can afford to buy. Then the up and
coming poor have to rent in the private sector, putting the profits into
Tory pockets. Including any housing benefit. You just know it makes sense.
To a moron.

Thank God. Sometimes I feel that the entire country has lost sight of
the Blasted obvious.

Are you are so stupid to believe when houses are sold they can no longer
house families? Really?

They are going into the private sector and not being replaced, the
homes are being sold on the open market and social housing is not
being built anymore.

So not having a direct affect on housing demand then.

Of course it is. Many people cannot afford housing on the open
market, and there's all those houses kept empty deliberatly.

Often the houses are not even occupied, the UK is full of vacant
properties, just being kept for investment.

More in London, and a consequence of rising prices and knowledge
governments won't build more houses.

Hence reducing the supply and therefore increasing the demand.

It's a skewed market, the normal rules of supply and demand do not
hold because supply is limited artificially.

The same rules apply. Shortage in housing means rising prices.

Denial is futile.

Resistance is futile.

The current shortage has been going ever since the sell off started,
bbut that was driven by greed, powergrabbing and a bit of ameteurish
social engineering. Or were you on another planet when Shirly Porter
was getting rid of the labour voting peasants?

No, there was a glut in the 90s and prices dropped. A successful economy
meant prices increased, and when the floodgates were open in 2005 or so,
prices kept going up.

Nothing to do with a successfully economy. More down to greed.

--snip--

What Brexit will do is shift the supply and demand from the employer to
the worker's benfit

No, quite the opposite.

It wont cause the UK problems because it will be a case of work or
die.

State benefits are there to stop the dying. You have heard of JSA, HB etc?

Which are all being cut.

Of course it's all scaremongering to the Brexiteers, but there are
Brexiteers that are too thick to see what's happening and Brexiteers
that are going to do very well indeed from the mess.

We'll have to see what happens, so far so good. Some of us have already
seem a pay increase, something that hasn't happened for 10 years due to
suppressed wages from immigration.

Er I think that if you ask someone, they may just mention that we are
still in the EU.

But moving in the right direction. The immigration has been slowed.

Yes, but this is not moving in the right direction. There are many
jobs now that are not being filled.

Nothing has happened yet, apart from the pound plummeting. So the wage
rises are not something to be happy about, they are simply less of a
wage drop than the general population have had to suffer.

And so makes up for the WTO tariffs. It should help business. Thank god
we're not stuck with the Euro.

We're not "stuck with the EURO" anyway. However leaving the EU will
compromise all our trade deals, and not just with EU members.

Neither would welcome debate on the subject.

Not much point when you keep your fingers in your ears.

Well maybe you should listen more?

I do, I am not happy with David Davies style of negotiation. He could do
a lot better. But at the same time fee we're being sold out by Remoaners
who wish for doom and gloom. Economies can be talked up as well as down.

And the biggest talkers "down" are the Brexiters.

If you can accept why people voted for Brexit,

Still baffles me why many people voted for Brexit - Xenophobia or
believing slogans on the side of a bus are the main possible
explanations.

then we have moved forward.

Yes. The polls indicate that more people are in favour of staying in
the EU now, which explains why fanatic Brexiters are so scared of
another referendum.

The future is uncertain,

Due to impending Brexit.

but can't be any worse that allowing
workers from developing countries to come to the UK and reduce wages.

Rubbish. Unemployment is low and many vacancies cannot be filled now.
Do we see a rise in wages? No.

You might see that unemployment is at record lows. That is one indicator
for wage rises in the pipe-line.

It's not happening.


--
insert witty sig here

On Sat, 10 Feb 2018 14:50:55 +0000, Fredxx wrote:

On 10/02/2018 02:46, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote:
On Sat, 10 Feb 2018 02:04:48 +0000, Fredxx wrote:

On 10/02/2018 01:16, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote:
On Sat, 10 Feb 2018 00:34:03 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
It's an obscenity that houses can be snapped up by those with access
to funds then rented out at ridiculous sums to those with almost
nothing.

The obscenity is there is a shortage, encouraging speculators. They know
there is no will to build any more, despite the hot air. Its a major
reason for Brexit.

Nothing to do with Brexit. Tory policy. Sell off all the social housing
you can at a discount, to those who can afford to buy. Then the up and
coming poor have to rent in the private sector, putting the profits into
Tory pockets. Including any housing benefit. You just know it makes sense.
To a moron.

Thank God. Sometimes I feel that the entire country has lost sight of
the Blasted obvious.

Are you are so stupid to believe when houses are sold they can no longer
house families? Really?

They are going into the private sector and not being replaced, the
homes are being sold on the open market and social housing is not
being built anymore.

So not having a direct affect on housing demand then.

No I work with an Engineer from Poland, he has just bought a house.
The money he paid was totally ridiculous, no one could afford to pay
that if they were just starting out. There isn't a hope that people on
average wages will buy property. Even if houses were to be built, the
new deregulated gig economy means that a mortgage will be outside the
reach of many.

That house will not be replaced, not be cause there isn't a market for
houses, its because new housebuilding is not allowed. The odd ones
that are built are snapped up by

Often the houses are not even occupied, the UK is full of vacant
properties, just being kept for investment.

More in London, and a consequence of rising prices and knowledge
governments won't build more houses.

It's a skewed market, the normal rules of supply and demand do not
hold because supply is limited artificially.

The same rules apply. Shortage in housing means rising prices.

Denial is futile.

It,s artificial. You are trying your best to pin the blame for a
housing shortage on to migrants. The housing shortage exists because
there are none being built.

That is the government.

Your refusal to accept this is understandable, that's racist bigotry.

The government have form on this, there was a time when a considerable
number of families had to take in lodgers to pay their way.


The current shortage has been going ever since the sell off started,
bbut that was driven by greed, powergrabbing and a bit of ameteurish
social engineering. Or were you on another planet when Shirly Porter
was getting rid of the labour voting peasants?

No, there was a glut in the 90s and prices dropped. A successful economy
meant prices increased, and when the floodgates were open in 2005 or so,
prices kept going up.

Even in 2007/8 during the crash average house-prices were still 5x
average income. Something unprecedented in a 'crash'. Normally, as per
90's crashes prices tends to dip to 2.5x average income.

What will be interesting is when we do "take control", there will
still be a large number of the population who are going to be far far
worse off than now. If the None British have all left, the only
scapegoats are going to be the unemployed and unemployment will be on
the whim of the employer.

We'll have to see. It depends on what you mean by 'worse off'. Does that
mean homeless or 30 and living with parents because you can't afford a
house?

What does a house actually cost to build in man hours and materials?

The problem isn't simply "cant afford". If you restrict the supply,
the price goes up, simple as that.

Great, we are talking supply here, so the great sell-off didn't affect
supply, ie none were knocked down.

We are about to hand every aspect of the UK's future to a shower who's
only guiding philosophy is greed and self interest.

Quite, businesses want cheap labour at any cost, culminating the
explosion of in-work benefits.

Incidentally, like it or not, there will be no need or purpose for the
NHS.

You're not very bright in thinking that. I guess when Corbyn has
decimated all around him, you may be right.

Well I didn't vote for Brexit and I didn't vote Conservative for
decades, so I would think it puts my mental abilities a little higher
than yours.

With Britains defence increasingly moving toward technology, why keep
a population healthy and supporting troops when the button pushers are
doing the fighting?

That does seem to be a Remain theme, keep wages low, gig economy.

It's what's happening. The rest of the EU are putting checks in to
limit the problems it causes.

Which causes unemployment, have a look at France with the most stringent
employment law.

Yes, standard excuse. ICL went down when they took over Nokia, our
workforce were expedendable, those with rights were kept on, those
with rights worked in Finland.

What Brexit will do is shift the supply and demand from the employer to
the worker's benfit

If you believe that, you really do have a screw loose.

.
It wont cause the UK problems because it will be a case of work or
die.

State benefits are there to stop the dying. You have heard of JSA, HB etc?

No, but I read reports of some pretty desperate people.

Of course it's all scaremongering to the Brexiteers, but there are
Brexiteers that are too thick to see what's happening and Brexiteers
that are going to do very well indeed from the mess.

We'll have to see what happens, so far so good. Some of us have already
seem a pay increase, something that hasn't happened for 10 years due to
suppressed wages from immigration.

Er I think that if you ask someone, they may just mention that we are
still in the EU.

But moving in the right direction. The immigration has been slowed.

Depends what you mean br right, I get on fine with the migrants. I
have a bit of trouble with thick people, whatever race they belong to,
but I try to remember it isn't their fault. I must admit, Brexiteers
are difficult though because they seem to flaunt ignorance and
stupidity as something to be proud of, a right of passage!

Nothing has happened yet, apart from the pound plummeting. So the wage
rises are not something to be happy about, they are simply less of a
wage drop than the general population have had to suffer.

And so makes up for the WTO tariffs. It should help business. Thank god
we're not stuck with the Euro.

With yhe notable exception of that pillock from Wetherspoons who cant
seem to rise beyond food price levels, industry does not want Brexit.

The two flagship industries for Britain were finance and car
manufacure, need I explain?

AB

Neither would welcome debate on the subject.

Not much point when you keep your fingers in your ears.

Well maybe you should listen more?

I do, I am not happy with David Davies style of negotiation. He could do
a lot better. But at the same time fee we're being sold out by Remoaners
who wish for doom and gloom. Economies can be talked up as well as down.

If you can accept why people voted for Brexit, then we have moved
forward. The future is uncertain, but can't be any worse that allowing
workers from developing countries to come to the UK and reduce wages.

You might see that unemployment is at record lows. That is one indicator
for wage rises in the pipe-line.

On Sat, 10 Feb 2018 11:08:27 +0000, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Never quite understood why so many believed rabble rousers like Farage.
Who never was in any position to deliver his promises.

He was deprived of the chance, Dave. His group (Grassroots Out which
should have been picked for the task) was mysteriously sidelined in
favour of Boris and his bunch of clowns who were chosen to ensure a
Remain victory - but thankfully failed.




--
This message may be freely reproduced without limit or charge only via
the Usenet protocol. Reproduction in whole or part through other
protocols, whether for profit or not, is conditional upon a charge of
GBP10.00 per reproduction. Publication in this manner via non-Usenet
protocols constitutes acceptance of this condition.

On Sat, 10 Feb 2018 14:56:44 +0000, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp
wrote:


Having lived with the alternative for the last 40 years, I can
honestly say that it hasn't been bad at all.

+1

I have also spent a lot of time in an EU country where the government
just gets on with it and governs instead of hoisting the blame for
their ineptidude on the weakest members of society.

True.

--snip--

The shareholders do quite well though,

Again. You are correct.

We're too clever for merely interpreting and changing the rules to
suit our situation, we send scum like Farage to represent us and the
EU makes a terrific scapegoat for all manner of ills anyway!

A lot of Xenophobes have been scapegoating the EU. A classic Brexiter
strategy. However UK government policies are the real cause of the
ills.

Flag waving, nationlism and bigotry are all well & good, but it's a
bit like the sterling exchange rate at the moment, the most important
thing is the bottom line & cashflow through every strata of society.

Nationalism when combined with prejudice is not all well & good, and
bigotry never. However a more pragmatic view is necessary here.

If the only people to do well out of Brexit are going to be the
multimillionaires, it isn't going to help the UK much is it.

Which is exactly what would/will happen. It's not too late to revoke
article 50 and this is exactly what we need to do, right now.

Everything I read in the news indicates that those at the bottom end
of the jobs market are going to have a miserable time.

True.

--
insert witty sig here

On Friday, 9 February 2018 20:07:15 UTC, Fredxx wrote:
On 08/02/2018 15:52, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote:
On Thu, 8 Feb 2018 15:06:56 +0000, JoeJoe wrote:

Currently headline on front page of BBC News: "Bank of England hints at
earlier and larger rate rises"

Inside it reads: "The Bank of England has indicated that the pace of
interest rate increases could accelerate if the economy remains on its
current track."

So all sounds very negative for the average reader, right?

No, not at all.

At last savings rates might be expessed using integers.

Brexiter have demonstrated perfectly well that they are clueless about
the amount Britain imports, how would they equate bigger mortgages and
unemployment with Brexit?

Given the average graduate can't buy a house, the idea of a bigger
mortgage might mean house prices finally come down.

Where is the article does it mention that the reason for all that is
that the economy is growing faster and is stronger than the BoE had
predicted?

"Than predicted" being the operative phrase.

So poor predictions then. Brexit can't be as bad as many would wish.

Except for migration, our population would be falling.
Houses would be standing empty. And dirt cheap.
It only takes a small shortfall in life's essentials to cause a massive price hike.

On Saturday, 10 February 2018 01:16:56 UTC, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote:
On Sat, 10 Feb 2018 00:34:03 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
It's an obscenity that houses can be snapped up by those with access
to funds then rented out at ridiculous sums to those with almost
nothing.

The obscenity is there is a shortage, encouraging speculators. They know
there is no will to build any more, despite the hot air. Its a major
reason for Brexit.

Nothing to do with Brexit. Tory policy. Sell off all the social housing
you can at a discount, to those who can afford to buy. Then the up and
coming poor have to rent in the private sector, putting the profits into
Tory pockets. Including any housing benefit. You just know it makes sense.
To a moron.

Thank God. Sometimes I feel that the entire country has lost sight of
the Blasted obvious.

What will be interesting is when we do "take control", there will
still be a large number of the population who are going to be far far
worse off than now. If the None British have all left, the only
scapegoats are going to be the unemployed and unemployment will be on
the whim of the employer.

We are about to hand every aspect of the UK's future to a shower who's
only guiding philosophy is greed and self interest.

Incidentally, like it or not, there will be no need or purpose for the
NHS.

With Britains defence increasingly moving toward technology, why keep
a population healthy and supporting troops when the button pushers are
doing the fighting?

Of course it's all scaremongering to the Brexiteers, but there are
Brexiteers that are too thick to see what's happening and Brexiteers
that are going to do very well indeed from the mess.

Neither would welcome debate on the subject.

AB

Drivel.
Houses sold still exist. They don't disappear.

On Sat, 10 Feb 2018 14:42:36 +0000, Tim Watts
wrote:

On 10/02/18 14:10, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote:

Yes it certainly explains the lack of enthusiasm to do anything to
stop migrants coming in, and indeed ensure that those already in had a
right to remain.
--snip--

But for me, BREXIT was not about mass immigration - it was more about
the EU trying to morph into a Federal Superstate.

But the UK would never agree to this so your paranoia is unjustified.
In case you have fogotten we didn't join the Euro.

--
insert witty sig here

On 10/02/18 15:36, Mark wrote:
On Sat, 10 Feb 2018 14:42:36 +0000, Tim Watts
wrote:

On 10/02/18 14:10, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote:

Yes it certainly explains the lack of enthusiasm to do anything to
stop migrants coming in, and indeed ensure that those already in had a
right to remain.
--snip--

But for me, BREXIT was not about mass immigration - it was more about
the EU trying to morph into a Federal Superstate.

But the UK would never agree to this so your paranoia is unjustified.

But the fact that the UK never agreed to this hasnt stopped it
happeninmg, so his paranoia was totally justified


In case you have fogotten we didn't join the Euro.



--
How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think.

Adolf Hitler

On 10/02/18 15:28, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote:
On Sat, 10 Feb 2018 14:50:55 +0000, Fredxx wrote:


It,s artificial. You are trying your best to pin the blame for a
housing shortage on to migrants. The housing shortage exists because
there are none being built.

That is the government.

Your refusal to accept this is understandable, that's racist bigotry.


Give it a rest with the "racist" epithet ******** - race has nothing to
do with it.

Supply and demand.

The supply has not increased. Demand has.

In article ,
Tim Watts wrote:
On 10/02/18 00:34, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
It's an obscenity that houses can be snapped up by those with access
to funds then rented out at ridiculous sums to those with almost
nothing.

The obscenity is there is a shortage, encouraging speculators. They know
there is no will to build any more, despite the hot air. Its a major
reason for Brexit.

Nothing to do with Brexit. Tory policy. Sell off all the social housing
you can at a discount, to those who can afford to buy. Then the up and
coming poor have to rent in the private sector, putting the profits into
Tory pockets. Including any housing benefit. You just know it makes sense.
To a moron.


Actually Blair and Roche's policy of massive net immigration starting in
1998 - as per other post:

7.6 million between 1998 and 2017 (ONS data) of which net immigration
was 4.5 million from a starting point of 58.5 million.

13% increase in 20 years.


So that's the demand radically altered.

And successive governments doing very little to make sure the
infrastructure can cope with the higher numbers. Despite the vast majority
of those immigrants making a positive contribution to the economy of the
nation.

I agree with you on the council houses - she should have required they
be replaced 1:1, rather than (as I understand it) preventing replacement
stock being built for council housing.

Her prime motive was to convert historical Labour voters into Tories. By
bribing them - as old as the hills way of buying votes. And certainly
didn't want more coming along to replace them.

Also you have Brown's disastrous de-regulation of the banking sector
that led to insane mortgages (ie not 3.5x salary and 5-10% deposit
required) becoming the norm.

And the world wide crash really started in the US. Odd we have so much
influence.

So if we're blaming party politics, it's as much Labour's fault as the
Tories.

Thatcher was the one that made naked greed acceptable.

--
*Puritanism: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere may be happy.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sat, 10 Feb 2018 07:35:23 -0800 (PST), harry
wrote:

On Saturday, 10 February 2018 01:16:56 UTC, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote:
On Sat, 10 Feb 2018 00:34:03 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
It's an obscenity that houses can be snapped up by those with access
to funds then rented out at ridiculous sums to those with almost
nothing.

The obscenity is there is a shortage, encouraging speculators. They know
there is no will to build any more, despite the hot air. Its a major
reason for Brexit.

Nothing to do with Brexit. Tory policy. Sell off all the social housing
you can at a discount, to those who can afford to buy. Then the up and
coming poor have to rent in the private sector, putting the profits into
Tory pockets. Including any housing benefit. You just know it makes sense.
To a moron.

Thank God. Sometimes I feel that the entire country has lost sight of
the Blasted obvious.

What will be interesting is when we do "take control", there will
still be a large number of the population who are going to be far far
worse off than now. If the None British have all left, the only
scapegoats are going to be the unemployed and unemployment will be on
the whim of the employer.

We are about to hand every aspect of the UK's future to a shower who's
only guiding philosophy is greed and self interest.

Incidentally, like it or not, there will be no need or purpose for the
NHS.

With Britains defence increasingly moving toward technology, why keep
a population healthy and supporting troops when the button pushers are
doing the fighting?

Of course it's all scaremongering to the Brexiteers, but there are
Brexiteers that are too thick to see what's happening and Brexiteers
that are going to do very well indeed from the mess.

Neither would welcome debate on the subject.

AB

Drivel.
Houses sold still exist. They don't disappear.

You really don't understand. Of course houses don't disappear but
they often remain empty or rents are too expensive.

Speaking from personal experience I and many other people do not want
to rent since you can be forced out on a whim on the landlord.

--
insert witty sig here

In article ,
Tim Watts wrote:
Odd that all the shops and so on seemed to cope perfectly well with this
extra population. Unless you have queues for them round your way - like
some failed state.

Well yes - shops are small scale investments, free from central
government policy at least concerning their existence and are thus
highly liquid in their ability to grow and contract to changes in the
market.

Whereas railway lines, hospitals and major housing increases are the
opposite.

Seems to be plenty land to throw up a new shopping centre in record time.
Which simply makes the traditional high street less viable, rather than
adding facilities. How is that any different from building houses?

--
*'Progress' and 'Change' are not synonyms.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sat, 10 Feb 2018 15:10:24 +0000, Tim Watts
wrote:

On 10/02/18 14:52, Mark wrote:


And who are usually ignored.

You'd be surprised. Perfectly good brownfield development of an old mill
site was blocked - I thought the plans looked quite good.

Many sites are approved - even in SSSI and AONBs.

These contain a number of the same people who were very
vocal in their support of "refugees" last year - though they seem to
have gone a bit quiet on that recently.

Do you really know this?

Well, yes - when I see the same names expressing support, it kinda gives
the game away!

IMHO a big assumption.


The correct answer would be to have not exploded the population - but
that was Blair's doing (and every government since who failed to do
anything).

There are many reasons for the population rising. One major factor is
people living longer However the government is trying to address this
issue with cuts to the NHS.

4.5 million are nothing to do with living longer...

???

However, we can't undo that past - what we can do is stop making it
worse and then go build some houses.

As others have said is not just about building houses. We need to
make sure empty houses are not just used as investments and allow
people to live in them.

We could ban foreigners from owning houses here, unless they have
residency and will live in it I suppose. But IIRC a newspaper looked
into the "Russians own Chelsea" thing and found out, that the effect on
housing stock was not that pronounced after all.

Ah. So you admit that the effect of immigrants on housing is
negligable.

No sensible private investor is depriving the market of hosuing stock,
because, unless they are insane, they will be renting it out,
maintaining the rental stock.

Whether they are "sensible" or not this is what is happening.

Where are these empty properties? I've not noticed many down south...

Look more carefully.

Council houses that are sold off should be replaced.

Yes, they should (and I'm right wing, but I believe in a welfare safety
net too).

I'm glad you believe in a safety net, but current policies seem to be
removing this.

--
insert witty sig here

On Sat, 10 Feb 2018 07:34:05 -0800 (PST), harry
wrote:

On Friday, 9 February 2018 20:07:15 UTC, Fredxx wrote:
On 08/02/2018 15:52, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote:
On Thu, 8 Feb 2018 15:06:56 +0000, JoeJoe wrote:

Currently headline on front page of BBC News: "Bank of England hints at
earlier and larger rate rises"

Inside it reads: "The Bank of England has indicated that the pace of
interest rate increases could accelerate if the economy remains on its
current track."

So all sounds very negative for the average reader, right?

No, not at all.

At last savings rates might be expessed using integers.

Brexiter have demonstrated perfectly well that they are clueless about
the amount Britain imports, how would they equate bigger mortgages and
unemployment with Brexit?

Given the average graduate can't buy a house, the idea of a bigger
mortgage might mean house prices finally come down.

Where is the article does it mention that the reason for all that is
that the economy is growing faster and is stronger than the BoE had
predicted?

"Than predicted" being the operative phrase.

So poor predictions then. Brexit can't be as bad as many would wish.

Except for migration, our population would be falling.

No it wouldn't. People are living longer nowadays.

Houses would be standing empty. And dirt cheap.

Houses are standing empty but there's little prospect of them being
affordable.

It only takes a small shortfall in life's essentials to cause a massive price hike.

Agreed.

--
insert witty sig here

On Sat, 10 Feb 2018 15:44:10 +0000, Tim Watts
wrote:

On 10/02/18 15:28, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote:
On Sat, 10 Feb 2018 14:50:55 +0000, Fredxx wrote:


It,s artificial. You are trying your best to pin the blame for a
housing shortage on to migrants. The housing shortage exists because
there are none being built.

That is the government.

Your refusal to accept this is understandable, that's racist bigotry.


Give it a rest with the "racist" epithet ******** - race has nothing to
do with it.

Of course it has!

Are you blind, the news reports have been reporting attacks on east
europeans and they have been increasing steadily since the referendum.

It may be unpleasant, but the fact is that race had everything to do
with the referendum result.

Brexiters have openly stated that they want the Polish to go back
home, they do in shops on a daily basis.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a7104191.html

Not just Polish incidentally, but Muslims also got the brunt.

It seems that quite a few Brexiteers were not too clear on the
difference between a foriegner from in or out of the EU.

Believe me, that's bigoted racism.

The common denominator is the mentality. The same bunch of idiots
would be voting for Trump in other circumstances, or daubing graffiti
on a paediatricians house. Remember that one?







Supply and demand.

The supply has not increased. Demand has.

Well at least some of your observations appear to be correct.


AB

On Sat, 10 Feb 2018 15:45:43 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Tim Watts wrote:
On 10/02/18 00:34, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
It's an obscenity that houses can be snapped up by those with access
to funds then rented out at ridiculous sums to those with almost
nothing.

The obscenity is there is a shortage, encouraging speculators. They know
there is no will to build any more, despite the hot air. Its a major
reason for Brexit.

Nothing to do with Brexit. Tory policy. Sell off all the social housing
you can at a discount, to those who can afford to buy. Then the up and
coming poor have to rent in the private sector, putting the profits into
Tory pockets. Including any housing benefit. You just know it makes sense.
To a moron.


Actually Blair and Roche's policy of massive net immigration starting in
1998 - as per other post:

7.6 million between 1998 and 2017 (ONS data) of which net immigration
was 4.5 million from a starting point of 58.5 million.

13% increase in 20 years.


So that's the demand radically altered.

And successive governments doing very little to make sure the
infrastructure can cope with the higher numbers. Despite the vast majority
of those immigrants making a positive contribution to the economy of the
nation.

Exactly. The majority of immigrants are paying their taxes and hence
contributing to society.

I agree with you on the council houses - she should have required they
be replaced 1:1, rather than (as I understand it) preventing replacement
stock being built for council housing.

Her prime motive was to convert historical Labour voters into Tories.

She wanted to convert everyone into tory voters.

By
bribing them - as old as the hills way of buying votes. And certainly
didn't want more coming along to replace them.

Yes, Bribery was the prime method.

Also you have Brown's disastrous de-regulation of the banking sector
that led to insane mortgages (ie not 3.5x salary and 5-10% deposit
required) becoming the norm.

And the world wide crash really started in the US. Odd we have so much
influence.

The crash did start in the US but Brown's deregulation certsinly
contributed to the problems here.

So if we're blaming party politics, it's as much Labour's fault as the
Tories.

True.

Thatcher was the one that made naked greed acceptable.

True.

--
insert witty sig here

On 10/02/18 15:54, Mark wrote:
On Sat, 10 Feb 2018 15:10:24 +0000, Tim Watts
wrote:


Well, yes - when I see the same names expressing support, it kinda gives
the game away!

IMHO a big assumption.

It's not an assumption when a bunch of people whose names I remember say
X then later on say Y.

There are many reasons for the population rising. One major factor is
people living longer However the government is trying to address this
issue with cuts to the NHS.

4.5 million are nothing to do with living longer...

???

4.5 net immigration 1998-2017 - that is a population increase that was
caused not by people living longer.

However, we can't undo that past - what we can do is stop making it
worse and then go build some houses.

As others have said is not just about building houses. We need to
make sure empty houses are not just used as investments and allow
people to live in them.

We could ban foreigners from owning houses here, unless they have
residency and will live in it I suppose. But IIRC a newspaper looked
into the "Russians own Chelsea" thing and found out, that the effect on
housing stock was not that pronounced after all.

Ah. So you admit that the effect of immigrants on housing is
negligable.

You clearly failed to understand that because I said nothing of the sort.

The article suggested foreign investors (oligarchs and other rich
businessmen) were not having much on an effect as they bought a few
outlandishly expensive houses, not streetfuls of ordinary housing.


No sensible private investor is depriving the market of hosuing stock,
because, unless they are insane, they will be renting it out,
maintaining the rental stock.

Whether they are "sensible" or not this is what is happening.

Where are these empty properties? I've not noticed many down south...

Look more carefully.

I have. I have rarely seen an obviously derelict or empty house round my
way. So over to you - where are they?


Council houses that are sold off should be replaced.

Yes, they should (and I'm right wing, but I believe in a welfare safety
net too).

I'm glad you believe in a safety net, but current policies seem to be
removing this.


And I'd like it to remain in place - which isn't being helped by
exploding the population.

On 10/02/18 16:05, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote:
On Sat, 10 Feb 2018 15:44:10 +0000, Tim Watts
wrote:

On 10/02/18 15:28, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote:
On Sat, 10 Feb 2018 14:50:55 +0000, Fredxx wrote:


It,s artificial. You are trying your best to pin the blame for a
housing shortage on to migrants. The housing shortage exists because
there are none being built.

That is the government.

Your refusal to accept this is understandable, that's racist bigotry.


Give it a rest with the "racist" epithet ******** - race has nothing to
do with it.

Of course it has!

Are you blind, the news reports have been reporting attacks on east
europeans and they have been increasing steadily since the referendum.

Are you unable to read?

I clearly said race has nothing to do with housing shortages.

You've just said: "Racial attacks in east europeans linked to
referendum" which may be true, but has nothing to do with the housing
issue were were talking about.


It may be unpleasant, but the fact is that race had everything to do
with the referendum result.
....

Brexiters have openly stated that they want the Polish to go back

You can't extrapolate the idiocy of a few onto all 52%.

In article ,
harry wrote:
Except for migration, our population would be falling. Houses would be
standing empty. And dirt cheap. It only takes a small shortfall in
life's essentials to cause a massive price hike.

You could use all those spare houses to pile up the bodies in after our
health and care system collapses, with no immigrant workers.

--
*All those who believe in psychokinesis, raise my hand *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 10/02/18 17:03, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
harry wrote:
Except for migration, our population would be falling. Houses would be
standing empty. And dirt cheap. It only takes a small shortfall in
life's essentials to cause a massive price hike.

You could use all those spare houses to pile up the bodies in after our
health and care system collapses, with no immigrant workers.


Immigrant workers do not require open borders.

They work perfectly well with fully controlled borders and temporary
residency permits.

In article ,
Tim Watts wrote:
On 10/02/18 17:03, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
harry wrote:
Except for migration, our population would be falling. Houses would be
standing empty. And dirt cheap. It only takes a small shortfall in
life's essentials to cause a massive price hike.

You could use all those spare houses to pile up the bodies in after our
health and care system collapses, with no immigrant workers.


Immigrant workers do not require open borders.

They work perfectly well with fully controlled borders and temporary
residency permits.

You think those who voted Brexit based on their perception there were too
many immigrant workers will buy that?

They want all immigrant workers stopped. To push up the wages in the jobs
they don't want to do, apparently.

--
*ATHEISM IS A NON-PROPHET ORGANIZATION.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sat, 10 Feb 2018 16:51:41 +0000, Tim Watts
wrote:

On 10/02/18 16:05, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote:
On Sat, 10 Feb 2018 15:44:10 +0000, Tim Watts
wrote:

On 10/02/18 15:28, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote:
On Sat, 10 Feb 2018 14:50:55 +0000, Fredxx wrote:


It,s artificial. You are trying your best to pin the blame for a
housing shortage on to migrants. The housing shortage exists because
there are none being built.

That is the government.

Your refusal to accept this is understandable, that's racist bigotry.


Give it a rest with the "racist" epithet ******** - race has nothing to
do with it.

Of course it has!

Are you blind, the news reports have been reporting attacks on east
europeans and they have been increasing steadily since the referendum.

Are you unable to read?

I clearly said race has nothing to do with housing shortages.

You've just said: "Racial attacks in east europeans linked to
referendum" which may be true, but has nothing to do with the housing
issue were were talking about.


It may be unpleasant, but the fact is that race had everything to do
with the referendum result.
...

Brexiters have openly stated that they want the Polish to go back

You can't extrapolate the idiocy of a few onto all 52%.

Apologies, but the way the original post was edited implied that
housing shortages had nothing to do with racism, where it is only too
obvious that housing shortages are being blamed on migrants and they
would be blamed on any other vlulnerable group also if migrants were
not around.

Housing shortages are just a tool that is being used to the full by
racist bigots.

They don't go after the real culprits, but there again forelock
tuggers never did on these islands.

Most Brexiteers that I know, and it's quite a few as I live in one of
the areas having a large out majority, cite their racism as the reason
for wanting to leave. A small proportion use taking control as a
reason, oddly enough a couple of graduates are amongst the latter, so
I suppose a small percentage of Brexiters might have the odd brain
cell.

One aquaintance voted leave because his daughter failed to get a job
at a fast food establishment. This was blamed on migrants, whereas it
was reasonably clear that the poor girl wasn't really in a very good
position regarding gene distribution.

Again the answer was vote Brexit, it's the migrants fault.


AB