I was listening to the late show on BBC in the south the other night and a
bloke rang up and said his smart meter had actually cut all his energy off
displaying that there was no credit on his account or something. However the
energy company who fitted it, he was not allowed to name it on air, said
that they had him as having paid up to date. They were coming out in the
morning to replace it as it must be faulty.
In the mean time of course he freezes.

So much for technology.

I'm glad I still have my old fashioned one.

Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!

Brian Gaff submitted this idea :
I was listening to the late show on BBC in the south the other night and a
bloke rang up and said his smart meter had actually cut all his energy off
displaying that there was no credit on his account or something. However the
energy company who fitted it, he was not allowed to name it on air, said that
they had him as having paid up to date. They were coming out in the morning
to replace it as it must be faulty.
In the mean time of course he freezes.

Really, that could happen with any type of meter failing. What is
inexcusable is not treating it as an emergency and getting someone
straight out to fix it.

Brian Gaff wrote:

a bloke rang up and said his smart meter had actually cut all his
energy off displaying that there was no credit on his account
Sounds more related to the fact that it was a credit meter, than a smart
meter ..

Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Brian Gaff submitted this idea :
I was listening to the late show on BBC in the south the other night
and a bloke rang up and said his smart meter had actually cut all his
energy off displaying that there was no credit on his account or
something. However the energy company who fitted it, he was not
allowed to name it on air, said that they had him as having paid up to
date. They were coming out in the morning to replace it as it must be
faulty.
In the mean time of course he freezes.

Really, that could happen with any type of meter failing. What is
inexcusable is not treating it as an emergency and getting someone
straight out to fix it.
Not true Harry, It is only the new "smart" meters that are fitted with a
contactor to cut off the power. Presumably these have a solenoid to
operate them which can fail at any time.

On 04/02/2018 11:09, Andy Burns wrote:
Brian Gaff wrote:

a bloke rang up and said his smart meter had actually cut all his
energy off displaying that there was no credit on his account
Sounds more related to the fact that it was a credit meter, than a smart
meter ..


And smart meters do have benefits for prepayment users (IMO more so than
for others): eg they can give them warnings when their credit is getting
low, and "emergency credit" so they aren't left without power when the
shops are shut.



--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

Bob Minchin wrote:

It is only the new "smart" meters that are fitted with a
contactor to cut off the power.

How do "card" meters work then?

Andy Burns wrote:
Bob Minchin wrote:

It is only the new "smart" meters that are fitted with a
contactor to cut off the power.

How do "card" meters work then?
OK fair point they must have a switch too.

But the real point is that smart (credit) meter which the guvmint are
trying to get us all to have fitted, will all have this potential
failure mechanism in them.
For a very small number of defaulting consumers, these might be
justified but for the vast majority of us, they can only offer reduced
reliability for an item that has not had a risk of supply cut off before
due to a fault.

On 04/02/2018 12:21, Bob Minchin wrote:
Andy Burns wrote:
Bob Minchin wrote:

It is only the new "smart" meters that are fitted with a
contactor to cut off the power.

How do "card" meters work then?
OK fair point they must have a switch too.

But the real point is that smart (credit) meter which the guvmint are
trying to get us all to have fitted, will all have this potential
failure mechanism in them.
For a very small number of defaulting consumers, these might be
justified but for the vast majority of us, they can only offer reduced
reliability for an item that has not had a risk of supply cut off before
due to a fault.

Assuming that this is a faulty meter then is it acceptable that the
customer should go without electricity for more than 3 hours?


--


Adam

ARW wrote:
On 04/02/2018 12:21, Bob Minchin wrote:
Andy Burns wrote:
Bob Minchin wrote:

It is only the new "smart" meters that are fitted with a
contactor to cut off the power.

How do "card" meters work then?
OK fair point they must have a switch too.

But the real point is that smart (credit) meter which the guvmint are
trying to get us all to have fitted, will all have this potential
failure mechanism in them.
For a very small number of defaulting consumers, these might be
justified but for the vast majority of us, they can only offer reduced
reliability for an item that has not had a risk of supply cut off
before due to a fault.

Assuming that this is a faulty meter then is it acceptable that the
customer should go without electricity for more than 3 hours?


--


Adam

I don't believe so but I'm not sure what the service level agreement is
for a normal domestic supply. Our DNO has given us an emergency number
in the event of a supply problem as my wife does not have good health
and they text us in advance if they anticipate a problem such as bad
weather. They refer to is as being "registered for priority services"
and to be honest I can't recall how we got onto their scheme.

We have not had to use it and as our gas fired heating is backed up by a
UPS and I have a generator, we can cope for several hours.

On 04/02/18 12:21, Bob Minchin wrote:
Andy Burns wrote:
Bob Minchin wrote:

It is only the new "smart" meters that are fitted with a
contactor to cut off the power.

How do "card" meters work then?
OK fair point they must have a switch too.

But the real point is that smart (credit) meter which the guvmint are
trying to get us all to have fitted, will all have this potential
failure mechanism in them.
For a very small number of defaulting consumers, these might be
justified but for the vast majority of us, they can only offer reduced
reliability for an item that has not had a risk of supply cut off before
due to a fault.

They wanted to fit one here, till I pointed out there wasnt a breath of
Mobile RF in the whiole area..



--
Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have
guns, why should we let them have ideas?

Josef Stalin

On 04/02/18 12:32, ARW wrote:
On 04/02/2018 12:21, Bob Minchin wrote:
Andy Burns wrote:
Bob Minchin wrote:

It is only the new "smart" meters that are fitted with a
contactor to cut off the power.

How do "card" meters work then?
OK fair point they must have a switch too.

But the real point is that smart (credit) meter which the guvmint are
trying to get us all to have fitted, will all have this potential
failure mechanism in them.
For a very small number of defaulting consumers, these might be
justified but for the vast majority of us, they can only offer reduced
reliability for an item that has not had a risk of supply cut off
before due to a fault.

Assuming that this is a faulty meter then is it acceptable that the
customer should go without electricity for more than 3 hours?


NO.

So what?



--


Adam


--
Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have
guns, why should we let them have ideas?

Josef Stalin

On 04/02/2018 12:40, Bob Minchin wrote:
ARW wrote:
On 04/02/2018 12:21, Bob Minchin wrote:
Andy Burns wrote:
Bob Minchin wrote:

It is only the new "smart" meters that are fitted with a
contactor to cut off the power.

How do "card" meters work then?
OK fair point they must have a switch too.

But the real point is that smart (credit) meter which the guvmint are
trying to get us all to have fitted, will all have this potential
failure mechanism in them.
For a very small number of defaulting consumers, these might be
justified but for the vast majority of us, they can only offer reduced
reliability for an item that has not had a risk of supply cut off
before due to a fault.

Assuming that this is a faulty meter then is it acceptable that the
customer should go without electricity for more than 3 hours?


--


Adam

I don't believe so but I'm not sure what the service level agreement is
for a normal domestic supply. Our DNO has given us an emergency number
in the event of a supply problem as my wife does not have good health
and they text us in advance if they anticipate a problem such as bad
weather. They refer to is as being "registered for priority services"
and to be honest I can't recall how we got onto their scheme.

We have not had to use it and as our gas fired heating is backed up by a
UPS and I have a generator, we can cope for several hours.

I can usually (exceptions for bad weather and remote locations) get an
engineer out without an hour if I suspect that the electrical supply is
in a dangerous condition or if the meter is tampered with[1].

I suspect that in this case the person that was on the radio just did
not shout loud enough when they made their complaint.

I set my parents up with an inverter to run their boiler etc if they had
a long power cut. It would need a car to keep it going for some time but
it would do a few hours from the stand alone battery I fitted.


[1] By others not by me

--


Adam

ARW wrote:

Assuming that this is a faulty meter then is it acceptable that the
customer should go without electricity for more than 3 hours?

If the property was registered as having an occupant on the list of
elderly/medical/new-born etc, I would expect them to treat it urgently.

Ringing a radio phone-in is unlikely to have much effect, maybe the chap
could have phoned the supplier worried about a sparking noise or a faint
smell of burning?

On 04/02/18 12:32, ARW wrote:
On 04/02/2018 12:21, Bob Minchin wrote:
Andy Burns wrote:
Bob Minchin wrote:

It is only the new "smart" meters that are fitted with a
contactor to cut off the power.

How do "card" meters work then?
OK fair point they must have a switch too.

But the real point is that smart (credit) meter which the guvmint are
trying to get us all to have fitted, will all have this potential
failure mechanism in them.
For a very small number of defaulting consumers, these might be
justified but for the vast majority of us, they can only offer reduced
reliability for an item that has not had a risk of supply cut off
before due to a fault.

Assuming that this is a faulty meter then is it acceptable that the
customer should go without electricity for more than 3 hours?


--


Adam

Customer should have said "I think I can hear buzzing and crackling
sounds coming from the meter." They'd be out pretty fast.

Harry Bloomfield wrote:

Brian Gaff submitted this idea :
I was listening to the late show on BBC in the south the other night and
a bloke rang up and said his smart meter had actually cut all his energy
off displaying that there was no credit on his account or something.
However the energy company who fitted it, he was not allowed to name it
on air, said that they had him as having paid up to date. They were
coming out in the morning to replace it as it must be faulty. In the
mean time of course he freezes.

Really, that could happen with any type of meter failing. What is
inexcusable is not treating it as an emergency and getting someone
straight out to fix it.

I can see no reasonably foreseeable failure mode of my meter which would
have that result. Apart from being melted by the external application
of extreme and prolonged heat.

--

Roger Hayter

Robin wrote:

On 04/02/2018 11:09, Andy Burns wrote:
Brian Gaff wrote:

a bloke rang up and said his smart meter had actually cut all his
energy off displaying that there was no credit on his account
Sounds more related to the fact that it was a credit meter, than a smart
meter ..


And smart meters do have benefits for prepayment users (IMO more so than
for others): eg they can give them warnings when their credit is getting
low, and "emergency credit" so they aren't left without power when the
shops are shut.

The current generation of credit meters supply emergency credit. The
natural human tendency to run on emergency credit before bothering to go
and get a top-up probably negates this in practice, though.

--

Roger Hayter

On Sun, 04 Feb 2018 10:35:57 +0000, Brian Gaff wrote:

So much for technology.

I'm glad I still have my old fashioned one.

I avoid like the plague anything described as "smart" because it's pretty
clear it's only smart for the people who sell it.




--
This message may be freely reproduced without limit or charge only via
the Usenet protocol. Reproduction in whole or part through other
protocols, whether for profit or not, is conditional upon a charge of
GBP10.00 per reproduction. Publication in this manner via non-Usenet
protocols constitutes acceptance of this condition.

On Sun, 4 Feb 2018 12:56:59 +0000
ARW wrote:

I can usually (exceptions for bad weather and remote locations) get
an engineer out without an hour if I suspect that the electrical
supply is in a dangerous condition or if the meter is tampered
with[1].

"Hello, my meter just failed so I've hot-wired it - hope that's
OK with you." That ought to do it. :-)

I set my parents up with an inverter to run their boiler etc if they
had a long power cut. It would need a car to keep it going for some
time but it would do a few hours from the stand alone battery I
fitted.

Now that's a good idea.

On Sunday, 4 February 2018 17:39:47 UTC, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sun, 04 Feb 2018 10:35:57 +0000, Brian Gaff wrote:

So much for technology.

I'm glad I still have my old fashioned one.

I avoid like the plague anything described as "smart" because it's pretty
clear it's only smart for the people who sell it.

Yep, nearly everything 'smart' is dumb.

wrote:

nearly everything 'smart' is dumb.

I think I managed to extend Douglas Adams' reaction to new technology a
good decade past 35 in my case, but now everything new just seems to be
a **** idea ... or not new at all.


[1] https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Douglas_Adams#The_Salmon_of_Doubt_(2002)

On 04/02/18 19:49, wrote:
On Sunday, 4 February 2018 17:39:47 UTC, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sun, 04 Feb 2018 10:35:57 +0000, Brian Gaff wrote:

So much for technology.

I'm glad I still have my old fashioned one.

I avoid like the plague anything described as "smart" because it's pretty
clear it's only smart for the people who sell it.

Yep, nearly everything 'smart' is dumb.

nearly everything 'smart' is for dumb PEOPLE.

--
"In our post-modern world, climate science is not powerful because it is
true: it is true because it is powerful."

Lucas Bergkamp

Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sun, 04 Feb 2018 10:35:57 +0000, Brian Gaff wrote:

So much for technology.

I'm glad I still have my old fashioned one.

I avoid like the plague anything described as "smart" because it's pretty
clear it's only smart for the people who sell it.




There is only one reason they push smart meters, money.

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 04/02/18 19:49, wrote:
On Sunday, 4 February 2018 17:39:47 UTC, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sun, 04 Feb 2018 10:35:57 +0000, Brian Gaff wrote:

So much for technology.

I'm glad I still have my old fashioned one.

I avoid like the plague anything described as "smart" because it's pretty
clear it's only smart for the people who sell it.

Yep, nearly everything 'smart' is dumb.

nearly everything 'smart' is for dumb PEOPLE.

This is unsurprising as the word itself is a crass Americanism (unless
referring to presentation) only ever used when patronising the
uneducated.



--

Roger Hayter

On 05/02/18 09:11, Roger Hayter wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 04/02/18 19:49, wrote:
On Sunday, 4 February 2018 17:39:47 UTC, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sun, 04 Feb 2018 10:35:57 +0000, Brian Gaff wrote:

So much for technology.

I'm glad I still have my old fashioned one.

I avoid like the plague anything described as "smart" because it's pretty
clear it's only smart for the people who sell it.

Yep, nearly everything 'smart' is dumb.

nearly everything 'smart' is for dumb PEOPLE.

This is unsurprising as the word itself is a crass Americanism (unless
referring to presentation) only ever used when patronising the
uneducated.

Patronising the 'educated', actually.

The people who have been through the acquistion of 'received wisdom'
and think that makes them smart.

I.e. the 50% of the nation who have been to some sort of 'uni' as
against the 5% who have been to a real university, or left school at 16...


--
Microsoft : the best reason to go to Linux that ever existed.

On 05/02/2018 08:55, FMurtz wrote:
Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sun, 04 Feb 2018 10:35:57 +0000, Brian Gaff wrote:

So much for technology.

I'm glad I still have my oldÂ* fashioned one.

I avoid like the plague anything described as "smart" because it's pretty
clear it's only smart for the people who sell it.




There is only one reason they push smart meters, money.

I have just had a call from a woman from EDF "When would it be
convenient for someone to fit a smart meter" answer "Never". She then
starts asking me about how I submitted meter readings. I was tempted to
resort to the usual vernacular expression.

--
Michael Chare

On Sun, 4 Feb 2018 12:32:42 +0000, ARW
wrote:


Assuming that this is a faulty meter then is it acceptable that the
customer should go without electricity for more than 3 hours?

Could be up to five hours in my experience, a couple of weeks ago.
Power went off at 8.10am. Rang Western Power (distributor) when it
hadn't come back on half an hour later. No problem in the area so a
technician was sent, who turned up in a little van an hour later.
He tested that power was reaching the meter but not leaving it, asking
if I had a credit or PAYG account, credit, and left, saying the
problem was with the meter.
Phoned Ovo who agreed to send someone, target three hours. About three
hours later, electrician phones to say that he would be late as the
guy who should have been coming had not turned in.
He looks at the meter, goes to phone Ovo and returns to ask if I had a
credit or PAYG account. Feeding that information back to Ovo, power
was restored in less than a minute.
The Western Power guy obviously sussed what the problem was. I don't
know if there was anything on the panel to say so, I didn't look.
My meter status had been changed from credit to PAYG about a week
before but Ovo didn't know why.
Of course, if Ovo's call centre, given that there was no problem in
the area, had asked me 'credit or payg?' power would have been
restored less than two hours after it went off, and they'd have been
saved the cost of the turnout and the £20 compensation they credited
me with.
(This was the day that I found out the gas fire wasn't working, a
self-inflicted problem that cost £170 to fix.)

On Sun, 4 Feb 2018 11:09:37 +0000, Andy Burns
wrote:

Brian Gaff wrote:

a bloke rang up and said his smart meter had actually cut all his
energy off displaying that there was no credit on his account
Sounds more related to the fact that it was a credit meter, than a smart
meter ..

The same meter acts as credit or payg as required, as I discovered.
See my other post.

On Tue, 06 Feb 2018 21:17:21 +0000, Peter Johnson
wrote:

On Sun, 4 Feb 2018 11:09:37 +0000, Andy Burns
wrote:

Brian Gaff wrote:

a bloke rang up and said his smart meter had actually cut all his
energy off displaying that there was no credit on his account
Sounds more related to the fact that it was a credit meter, than a smart
meter ..

The same meter acts as credit or payg as required, as I discovered.
See my other post.

Meant to say that it will do economy 7 as well.

Peter Johnson wrote:

Meant to say that it will do economy 7 as well.

That's progress then, as most suppliers to date seem to exclude E7 users
from having a smart meter.

On 07/02/2018 15:30, Peter Johnson wrote:
On Tue, 06 Feb 2018 21:17:21 +0000, Peter Johnson
wrote:

On Sun, 4 Feb 2018 11:09:37 +0000, Andy Burns
wrote:

Brian Gaff wrote:

a bloke rang up and said his smart meter had actually cut all his
energy off displaying that there was no credit on his account
Sounds more related to the fact that it was a credit meter, than a smart
meter ..

The same meter acts as credit or payg as required, as I discovered.
See my other post.

Meant to say that it will do economy 7 as well.

Is it a standard 7 hours from around midnight? Or can they charge a
different rate any time they like?

--
Max Demian

On Wed, 7 Feb 2018 20:41:08 +0000, Max Demian
wrote:



Meant to say that it will do economy 7 as well.

Is it a standard 7 hours from around midnight? Or can they charge a
different rate any time they like?

It's programmable so it will do anything they want.

On 08/02/2018 15:45, Peter Johnson wrote:
On Wed, 7 Feb 2018 20:41:08 +0000, Max Demian
wrote:



Meant to say that it will do economy 7 as well.

Is it a standard 7 hours from around midnight? Or can they charge a
different rate any time they like?

It's programmable so it will do anything they want.


e.on are looking at four six hour periods a day where you can select
which two you want at a cheaper rate.

They don't say what rates ATM.

On 05/02/18 05:59, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 04/02/18 19:49, wrote:
On Sunday, 4 February 2018 17:39:47 UTC, Cursitor DoomÂ* wrote:

I avoid like the plague anything described as "smart" because it's
pretty
clear it's only smart for the people who sell it.

Yep, nearly everything 'smart' is dumb.

nearly everything 'smart' is forÂ* dumb PEOPLE.


No, you need to take the quotes out.

everything smart is for dumb PEOPLE.


It's called dumbing down, an industry reaction to the fact that folks
awareness and technical skills are slipping, and getting worse the older
they get.

--
Adrian C

On Thu, 08 Feb 2018 16:47:46 +0000, Adrian Caspersz wrote:

On 05/02/18 05:59, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 04/02/18 19:49, wrote:
On Sunday, 4 February 2018 17:39:47 UTC, Cursitor DoomÂ* wrote:

I avoid like the plague anything described as "smart" because it's
pretty clear it's only smart for the people who sell it.

Yep, nearly everything 'smart' is dumb.

nearly everything 'smart' is forÂ* dumb PEOPLE.


No, you need to take the quotes out.

everything smart is for dumb PEOPLE.


It's called dumbing down, an industry reaction to the fact that folks
awareness and technical skills are slipping, and getting worse the older
they get.

I think you have that last bit arse about face. The final phrase imho,
should read "and getting worse the younger they are."

You neglect at your peril, the adage that seems to have been universally
adopted across all customer facing industries, "There's one born every
minute.". :-)

--
Johnny B Good

In article ,
Tim Watts writes:

Customer should have said "I think I can hear buzzing and crackling
sounds coming from the meter." They'd be out pretty fast.

Happened to a local KFC - looked like the service head had caught
fire, but it wrote off the whole place.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

In article ,
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
Tim Watts writes:

Customer should have said "I think I can hear buzzing and crackling
sounds coming from the meter." They'd be out pretty fast.

Happened to a local KFC - looked like the service head had caught
fire, but it wrote off the whole place.

when I was a student with the SESEB, I went to a building, originally, a
house, but now 4 floors of offices, where the load was sufficient for the
pitch in the cutout to melt and flow all over the floor.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England