On 22/01/2018 10:23, dennis@home wrote:
On 22/01/2018 07:10, wrote:


I don't treat them as a source at all. Last time I went there they
were selling leads for north of £20 a piece. I can pay a tenth of
that elsewhere.

If they are HDMI then they are £1 in poundland.

Yes but the HDMI lead I bought from Poundland led to strange things
happening because the internal wires had no screening or twisting. I
eventually went crestfallen to pay Maplin's ransome. I minimised this by
being adamant with the salesman I didn't need gold plating.
--
Dave W

Dave W wrote:

On 22/01/2018 10:23, dennis@home wrote:
On 22/01/2018 07:10, wrote:


I don't treat them as a source at all. Last time I went there they
were selling leads for north of £20 a piece. I can pay a tenth of
that elsewhere.

If they are HDMI then they are £1 in poundland.

Yes but the HDMI lead I bought from Poundland led to strange things
happening because the internal wires had no screening or twisting. I
eventually went crestfallen to pay Maplin's ransome. I minimised this by
being adamant with the salesman I didn't need gold plating.

Actually (decent) gold plating is quite a good idea for signal integrity
medium/long term. But *only* if the mating socket is gold plated.
Which most of them aren't.

--

Roger Hayter

On Thursday, 25 January 2018 20:48:12 UTC, Dave W wrote:
On 22/01/2018 10:23, dennis@home wrote:
On 22/01/2018 07:10, wrote:


I don't treat them as a source at all. Last time I went there they
were selling leads for north of £20 a piece. I can pay a tenth of
that elsewhere.

If they are HDMI then they are £1 in poundland.

Yes but the HDMI lead I bought from Poundland led to strange things
happening because the internal wires had no screening or twisting. I
eventually went crestfallen to pay Maplin's ransome. I minimised this by
being adamant with the salesman

you starting singing prince charming ;-/

Don't you ever, don;t you ever, try to sell me a gold plated connector.....


Dave W

On Thursday, 25 January 2018 21:20:00 UTC, Roger Hayter wrote:
Dave W wrote:
On 22/01/2018 10:23, dennis@home wrote:
On 22/01/2018 07:10, tabbypurr wrote:


I don't treat them as a source at all. Last time I went there they
were selling leads for north of �20 a piece. I can pay a tenth of
that elsewhere.

If they are HDMI then they are �1 in poundland.

Yes but the HDMI lead I bought from Poundland led to strange things
happening because the internal wires had no screening or twisting. I
eventually went crestfallen to pay Maplin's ransome. I minimised this by
being adamant with the salesman I didn't need gold plating.

Actually (decent) gold plating is quite a good idea for signal integrity
medium/long term. But *only* if the mating socket is gold plated.
Which most of them aren't.

it's entirely useless unless you're using the lead in a damp location


NT

In article ,
wrote:
Actually (decent) gold plating is quite a good idea for signal
integrity medium/long term. But *only* if the mating socket is gold
plated. Which most of them aren't.

it's entirely useless unless you're using the lead in a damp location

I've had problems with oxide on those rather horrid DIN connectors indoors
- in a house which is never damp.

--
*If work is so terrific, how come they have to pay you to do it?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 25/01/2018 21:19, Roger Hayter wrote:
Dave W wrote:

On 22/01/2018 10:23, dennis@home wrote:
On 22/01/2018 07:10, wrote:


I don't treat them as a source at all. Last time I went there they
were selling leads for north of £20 a piece. I can pay a tenth of
that elsewhere.

If they are HDMI then they are £1 in poundland.

Yes but the HDMI lead I bought from Poundland led to strange things
happening because the internal wires had no screening or twisting. I
eventually went crestfallen to pay Maplin's ransome. I minimised this by
being adamant with the salesman I didn't need gold plating.

Actually (decent) gold plating is quite a good idea for signal integrity
medium/long term. But *only* if the mating socket is gold plated.
Which most of them aren't.

Most gold plating is a very thin layer, where the metal below has a
habit of migrating through the gold and then leading to an oxide layer.
Better than nothing though.

On Friday, 26 January 2018 10:48:28 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tabbypurr wrote:

Actually (decent) gold plating is quite a good idea for signal
integrity medium/long term. But *only* if the mating socket is gold
plated. Which most of them aren't.

it's entirely useless unless you're using the lead in a damp location

I've had problems with oxide on those rather horrid DIN connectors indoors
- in a house which is never damp.

Yes, like 3.5mm jacks, 5 pin DINs are only fit for limited use. Gold doesn't really solve that though. If you use something suitable like phonos or 1/4" jacks there's no real upside to gold unless the environment is corrosive.


NT

On Friday, 26 January 2018 11:01:27 UTC, Fredxx wrote:
On 25/01/2018 21:19, Roger Hayter wrote:
Dave W wrote:

On 22/01/2018 10:23, dennis@home wrote:
On 22/01/2018 07:10, wrote:


I don't treat them as a source at all. Last time I went there they
were selling leads for north of £20 a piece. I can pay a tenth of
that elsewhere.

If they are HDMI then they are £1 in poundland.

Yes but the HDMI lead I bought from Poundland led to strange things
happening because the internal wires had no screening or twisting. I
eventually went crestfallen to pay Maplin's ransome. I minimised this by
being adamant with the salesman I didn't need gold plating.

Actually (decent) gold plating is quite a good idea for signal integrity
medium/long term. But *only* if the mating socket is gold plated.
Which most of them aren't.

Most gold plating is a very thin layer,

Yes it's amazing how cheap gold foil can be having brought some gold foil that I'm trying to stick to an electroscope !!!!

On Friday, 26 January 2018 11:59:56 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, 26 January 2018 11:01:27 UTC, Fredxx wrote:
On 25/01/2018 21:19, Roger Hayter wrote:
Dave W wrote:
On 22/01/2018 10:23, dennis@home wrote:
On 22/01/2018 07:10, tabbypurr wrote:


I don't treat them as a source at all. Last time I went there they
were selling leads for north of £20 a piece. I can pay a tenth of
that elsewhere.

If they are HDMI then they are £1 in poundland.

Yes but the HDMI lead I bought from Poundland led to strange things
happening because the internal wires had no screening or twisting. I
eventually went crestfallen to pay Maplin's ransome. I minimised this by
being adamant with the salesman I didn't need gold plating.

Actually (decent) gold plating is quite a good idea for signal integrity
medium/long term. But *only* if the mating socket is gold plated.
Which most of them aren't.

Most gold plating is a very thin layer,

Yes it's amazing how cheap gold foil can be having brought some gold foil that I'm trying to stick to an electroscope !!!!

electroplating is many times thinner


NT

On Friday, 26 January 2018 14:19:12 UTC, wrote:
On Friday, 26 January 2018 11:59:56 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, 26 January 2018 11:01:27 UTC, Fredxx wrote:
On 25/01/2018 21:19, Roger Hayter wrote:
Dave W wrote:
On 22/01/2018 10:23, dennis@home wrote:
On 22/01/2018 07:10, tabbypurr wrote:


I don't treat them as a source at all. Last time I went there they
were selling leads for north of £20 a piece. I can pay a tenth of
that elsewhere.

If they are HDMI then they are £1 in poundland.

Yes but the HDMI lead I bought from Poundland led to strange things
happening because the internal wires had no screening or twisting. I
eventually went crestfallen to pay Maplin's ransome. I minimised this by
being adamant with the salesman I didn't need gold plating.

Actually (decent) gold plating is quite a good idea for signal integrity
medium/long term. But *only* if the mating socket is gold plated.
Which most of them aren't.

Most gold plating is a very thin layer,

Yes it's amazing how cheap gold foil can be having brought some gold foil that I'm trying to stick to an electroscope !!!!

electroplating is many times thinner

Yes so should be even cheaper, as gold is used to eliminate tarnishing of the connector a very thin layer is easily scratched so may not be much use long term. So a good quality lead should have a reasonable thick gold layer but I;ve no idea how much extar such a lead would cost but I wouldn't have thought more than a couple of quid worth of gold.

On Friday, 26 January 2018 14:43:46 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, 26 January 2018 14:19:12 UTC, tabby wrote:
On Friday, 26 January 2018 11:59:56 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, 26 January 2018 11:01:27 UTC, Fredxx wrote:

Most gold plating is a very thin layer,

Yes it's amazing how cheap gold foil can be having brought some gold foil that I'm trying to stick to an electroscope !!!!

electroplating is many times thinner

Yes so should be even cheaper, as gold is used to eliminate tarnishing of the connector a very thin layer is easily scratched so may not be much use long term. So a good quality lead should have a reasonable thick gold layer but I;ve no idea how much extar such a lead would cost but I wouldn't have thought more than a couple of quid worth of gold.

ie you don't know.

In article ,
wrote:
I've had problems with oxide on those rather horrid DIN connectors
indoors - in a house which is never damp.

Yes, like 3.5mm jacks, 5 pin DINs are only fit for limited use. Gold
doesn't really solve that though. If you use something suitable like
phonos or 1/4" jacks there's no real upside to gold unless the
environment is corrosive.

Tuchel do a connector with the same pin size and spacing as DIN - but more
usually found on pro gear. And that has a better plating to the contacts
and seems to be pretty reliable.

I dunno what they use on the ordinary cheap DIN connectors - but I've seen
several heavily corroded. Not something you seem to find often on other
types of connector.

--
*Why is the third hand on the watch called a second hand?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Friday, 26 January 2018 15:03:35 UTC, wrote:
On Friday, 26 January 2018 14:43:46 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, 26 January 2018 14:19:12 UTC, tabby wrote:
On Friday, 26 January 2018 11:59:56 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, 26 January 2018 11:01:27 UTC, Fredxx wrote:

Most gold plating is a very thin layer,

Yes it's amazing how cheap gold foil can be having brought some gold foil that I'm trying to stick to an electroscope !!!!

electroplating is many times thinner

Yes so should be even cheaper, as gold is used to eliminate tarnishing of the connector a very thin layer is easily scratched so may not be much use long term. So a good quality lead should have a reasonable thick gold layer but I;ve no idea how much extar such a lead would cost but I wouldn't have thought more than a couple of quid worth of gold.

ie you don't know.

I know I don't know, that's the advantage in that I wouldn't pay an extar £100 for gold plated leads a couple of quid for me would proabbly be worth it.

On 26/01/18 15:20, whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, 26 January 2018 15:03:35 UTC, wrote:
On Friday, 26 January 2018 14:43:46 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, 26 January 2018 14:19:12 UTC, tabby wrote:
On Friday, 26 January 2018 11:59:56 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, 26 January 2018 11:01:27 UTC, Fredxx wrote:

Most gold plating is a very thin layer,

Yes it's amazing how cheap gold foil can be having brought some gold foil that I'm trying to stick to an electroscope !!!!

electroplating is many times thinner

Yes so should be even cheaper, as gold is used to eliminate tarnishing of the connector a very thin layer is easily scratched so may not be much use long term. So a good quality lead should have a reasonable thick gold layer but I;ve no idea how much extar such a lead would cost but I wouldn't have thought more than a couple of quid worth of gold.

ie you don't know.

I know I don't know, that's the advantage in that I wouldn't pay an extar £100 for gold plated leads a couple of quid for me would proabbly be worth it.

gold has value on low analogue signal pins: it has virtually none on
digital signals


--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.

On Friday, 26 January 2018 15:52:00 UTC, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 26/01/18 15:20, whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, 26 January 2018 15:03:35 UTC, wrote:
On Friday, 26 January 2018 14:43:46 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, 26 January 2018 14:19:12 UTC, tabby wrote:
On Friday, 26 January 2018 11:59:56 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, 26 January 2018 11:01:27 UTC, Fredxx wrote:

Most gold plating is a very thin layer,

Yes it's amazing how cheap gold foil can be having brought some gold foil that I'm trying to stick to an electroscope !!!!

electroplating is many times thinner

Yes so should be even cheaper, as gold is used to eliminate tarnishing of the connector a very thin layer is easily scratched so may not be much use long term. So a good quality lead should have a reasonable thick gold layer but I;ve no idea how much extar such a lead would cost but I wouldn't have thought more than a couple of quid worth of gold.

ie you don't know.

I know I don't know, that's the advantage in that I wouldn't pay an extar £100 for gold plated leads a couple of quid for me would proabbly be worth it.

gold has value on low analogue signal pins: it has virtually none on
digital signals

but I brought gold plated HDMI cable it's was about 50p more than one that wasn't.

On 26/01/18 15:59, whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, 26 January 2018 15:52:00 UTC, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 26/01/18 15:20, whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, 26 January 2018 15:03:35 UTC, wrote:
On Friday, 26 January 2018 14:43:46 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, 26 January 2018 14:19:12 UTC, tabby wrote:
On Friday, 26 January 2018 11:59:56 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, 26 January 2018 11:01:27 UTC, Fredxx wrote:

Most gold plating is a very thin layer,

Yes it's amazing how cheap gold foil can be having brought some gold foil that I'm trying to stick to an electroscope !!!!

electroplating is many times thinner

Yes so should be even cheaper, as gold is used to eliminate tarnishing of the connector a very thin layer is easily scratched so may not be much use long term. So a good quality lead should have a reasonable thick gold layer but I;ve no idea how much extar such a lead would cost but I wouldn't have thought more than a couple of quid worth of gold.

ie you don't know.

I know I don't know, that's the advantage in that I wouldn't pay an extar £100 for gold plated leads a couple of quid for me would proabbly be worth it.

gold has value on low analogue signal pins: it has virtually none on
digital signals

but I brought gold plated HDMI cable it's was about 50p more than one that wasn't.

More fool you


--
"Corbyn talks about equality, justice, opportunity, health care, peace,
community, compassion, investment, security, housing...."
"What kind of person is not interested in those things?"

"Jeremy Corbyn?"

On Friday, 26 January 2018 16:23:42 UTC, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 26/01/18 15:59, whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, 26 January 2018 15:52:00 UTC, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 26/01/18 15:20, whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, 26 January 2018 15:03:35 UTC, wrote:
On Friday, 26 January 2018 14:43:46 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, 26 January 2018 14:19:12 UTC, tabby wrote:
On Friday, 26 January 2018 11:59:56 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, 26 January 2018 11:01:27 UTC, Fredxx wrote:

Most gold plating is a very thin layer,

Yes it's amazing how cheap gold foil can be having brought some gold foil that I'm trying to stick to an electroscope !!!!

electroplating is many times thinner

Yes so should be even cheaper, as gold is used to eliminate tarnishing of the connector a very thin layer is easily scratched so may not be much use long term. So a good quality lead should have a reasonable thick gold layer but I;ve no idea how much extar such a lead would cost but I wouldn't have thought more than a couple of quid worth of gold.

ie you don't know.

I know I don't know, that's the advantage in that I wouldn't pay an extar £100 for gold plated leads a couple of quid for me would proabbly be worth it.

gold has value on low analogue signal pins: it has virtually none on
digital signals

but I brought gold plated HDMI cable it's was about 50p more than one that wasn't.

More fool you

why the gold plated versions seemd better and not just the plating but overall.

I'll always aviod getting the absolute cheapest of anything anyway and I'm not stopping at cables.

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I know I don't know, that's the advantage in that I wouldn't pay an
extar £100 for gold plated leads a couple of quid for me would
proabbly be worth it.

gold has value on low analogue signal pins: it has virtually none on
digital signals

You think a digital signal can't break up due to a poor connection?

--
*Why is the third hand on the watch called a second hand?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Friday, 26 January 2018 15:17:56 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tabbypurr wrote:

I've had problems with oxide on those rather horrid DIN connectors
indoors - in a house which is never damp.

Yes, like 3.5mm jacks, 5 pin DINs are only fit for limited use. Gold
doesn't really solve that though. If you use something suitable like
phonos or 1/4" jacks there's no real upside to gold unless the
environment is corrosive.

Tuchel do a connector with the same pin size and spacing as DIN - but more
usually found on pro gear. And that has a better plating to the contacts
and seems to be pretty reliable.

I dunno what they use on the ordinary cheap DIN connectors - but I've seen
several heavily corroded. Not something you seem to find often on other
types of connector.

quite, the problem is something other than lack of gold. They're junk grade stuff.

3.5mm is simply too small to be robust enough to last normal use. Again gold is not the solution.


NT

On 26/01/2018 10:10, wrote:
On Thursday, 25 January 2018 21:20:00 UTC, Roger Hayter wrote:
Dave W wrote:
On 22/01/2018 10:23, dennis@home wrote:
On 22/01/2018 07:10, tabbypurr wrote:


I don't treat them as a source at all. Last time I went there they
were selling leads for north of �20 a piece. I can pay a tenth of
that elsewhere.

If they are HDMI then they are �1 in poundland.

Yes but the HDMI lead I bought from Poundland led to strange things
happening because the internal wires had no screening or twisting. I
eventually went crestfallen to pay Maplin's ransome. I minimised this by
being adamant with the salesman I didn't need gold plating.

Actually (decent) gold plating is quite a good idea for signal integrity
medium/long term. But *only* if the mating socket is gold plated.
Which most of them aren't.

it's entirely useless unless you're using the lead in a damp location

No, gold connectors avoid tarnishing where others would, even in quite
benign conditions and that is useful with low level signals. Much of
industry only purchases industrial relays with gold contacts for control
systems (even inside indoor control panels) - silver are fine for higher
voltages and currents.

SteveW

wrote:

On Friday, 26 January 2018 14:43:46 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, 26 January 2018 14:19:12 UTC, tabby wrote:
On Friday, 26 January 2018 11:59:56 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, 26 January 2018 11:01:27 UTC, Fredxx wrote:

Most gold plating is a very thin layer,

Yes it's amazing how cheap gold foil can be having brought some gold
foil that I'm trying to stick to an electroscope !!!!

electroplating is many times thinner

Yes so should be even cheaper, as gold is used to eliminate tarnishing
of the connector a very thin layer is easily scratched so may not be
much use long term. So a good quality lead should have a reasonable
thick gold layer but I;ve no idea how much extar such a lead would cost
but I wouldn't have thought more than a couple of quid worth of gold.

ie you don't know.
I don't know either, but I suspect the process costs more than the
material cost.

--

Roger Hayter

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 26/01/18 15:20, whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, 26 January 2018 15:03:35 UTC, wrote:
On Friday, 26 January 2018 14:43:46 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, 26 January 2018 14:19:12 UTC, tabby wrote:
On Friday, 26 January 2018 11:59:56 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, 26 January 2018 11:01:27 UTC, Fredxx wrote:

Most gold plating is a very thin layer,

Yes it's amazing how cheap gold foil can be having brought some gold
foil that I'm trying to stick to an electroscope !!!!

electroplating is many times thinner

Yes so should be even cheaper, as gold is used to eliminate tarnishing
of the connector a very thin layer is easily scratched so may not be
much use long term. So a good quality lead should have a reasonable
thick gold layer but I;ve no idea how much extar such a lead would cost
but I wouldn't have thought more than a couple of quid worth of gold.

ie you don't know.

I know I don't know, that's the advantage in that I wouldn't pay an
extar £100 for gold plated leads a couple of quid for me would proabbly
be worth it.

gold has value on low analogue signal pins: it has virtually none on
digital signals

I think it does on very high speed ones, where a change in resistance
creates discontinuity, leading to reflection and inability to accurately
measure transitions. Don't forget that high speed digital signals or
*not* binary at the physical layer, but more like RF digitial signals,
multi-level and phase dependent. !0GBe for instance.

--

Roger Hayter

On Fri, 26 Jan 2018 11:30:51 -0800, tabbypurr wrote:

====snip====


quite, the problem is something other than lack of gold. They're junk
grade stuff.

3.5mm is simply too small to be robust enough to last normal use. Again
gold is not the solution.

The whole point of gold plating contact surfaces is to improve
reliability of the galvanic connection. Gold plating achieves this in two
ways. The first and obvious way being the elimination of tarnishing which
would create a high contact resistance in the case of base metals. The
second, seemingly less obvious way, being the larger effective area of
contact due to Gold's malleability creating an electrical gasket effect
that improves electrical conductivity across the whole of the larger
contact area.

Unfortunately, due to the very high price of Gold, its use as a contact
plating material can significantly increase the BoM costing of any
component parts such as DB25 connectors, memory modules and ISA/PCI/PCIe
adapters cursed with connectors that have contact counts ranging upwards
of 25 and beyond so a compromise is applied in the form of extremely thin
platings which can be guaranteed only to be good for as little as a mere
25 insertion cycles!

An alternative compromise is the use of "Hard Gold Alloy" plating which
gives a much longer insertion cycles lifetime rating but at the expense
of the initial quality of contact resistance achievable with unalloyed
Gold platings. You retain the tarnish resistance but the price of that
wear resistance is that you lose a lot of the benefit of the electrical
gasket effect inherent with unadulterated gold plating. As a result, such
hard gold alloy platings are more susceptible to the effects of
contamination from air pollution (grease and dust).

Fortunately, this propensity to poor contact can be mitigated by
'exercising' the connector through a few insertion cycles (three or four
cycles seems to be the charm with memory modules and PC adapter cards -
especially beneficial when assembling a desktop PC from a complete set of
brand new component parts).

--
Johnny B Good

On 26/01/2018 11:40, wrote:

Yes, like 3.5mm jacks, 5 pin DINs are only fit for limited use. Gold doesn't really solve that though. If you use something suitable like phonos or 1/4" jacks there's no real upside to gold unless the environment is corrosive.


Unless the box is hermetically sealed then a corrosive atmosphere that
affects the plugs is likely to kill the internal electronic components.


--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 26/01/2018 18:09, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,

gold has value on low analogue signal pins: it has virtually none on
digital signals

You think a digital signal can't break up due to a poor connection?


But you can introduce problems when you solder to gold plated pins.



--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 26/01/2018 21:15, Roger Hayter wrote:
snip
Don't forget that high speed digital signals or
*not* binary at the physical layer, but more like RF digitial signals,
multi-level and phase dependent. !0GBe for instance.

JOOI, in what way are they not binary?



--
Cheers, Rob

On Friday, 26 January 2018 20:55:55 UTC, Steve Walker wrote:
On 26/01/2018 10:10, tabbypurr wrote:
On Thursday, 25 January 2018 21:20:00 UTC, Roger Hayter wrote:
Dave W wrote:
On 22/01/2018 10:23, dennis@home wrote:
On 22/01/2018 07:10, tabbypurr wrote:


I don't treat them as a source at all. Last time I went there they
were selling leads for north of �20 a piece. I can pay a tenth of
that elsewhere.

If they are HDMI then they are �1 in poundland.

Yes but the HDMI lead I bought from Poundland led to strange things
happening because the internal wires had no screening or twisting. I
eventually went crestfallen to pay Maplin's ransome. I minimised this by
being adamant with the salesman I didn't need gold plating.

Actually (decent) gold plating is quite a good idea for signal integrity
medium/long term. But *only* if the mating socket is gold plated.
Which most of them aren't.

it's entirely useless unless you're using the lead in a damp location

No, gold connectors avoid tarnishing where others would, even in quite
benign conditions and that is useful with low level signals.

it's only useful if your connectors have an otherwise inadequate mating surface area.


Much of
industry only purchases industrial relays with gold contacts for control
systems (even inside indoor control panels) - silver are fine for higher
voltages and currents.

SteveW

a very different situation to signal connectors


NT

On Friday, 26 January 2018 23:58:19 UTC, alan_m wrote:
On 26/01/2018 11:40, tabbypurr wrote:

Yes, like 3.5mm jacks, 5 pin DINs are only fit for limited use. Gold doesn't really solve that though. If you use something suitable like phonos or 1/4" jacks there's no real upside to gold unless the environment is corrosive.


Unless the box is hermetically sealed then a corrosive atmosphere that
affects the plugs is likely to kill the internal electronic components.

In almost all cases it just corrodes the surface of the wiring. Paper caps are to some extent suseptible to damp though.


NT

RJH wrote:

On 26/01/2018 21:15, Roger Hayter wrote:
snip
Don't forget that high speed digital signals or
*not* binary at the physical layer, but more like RF digitial signals,
multi-level and phase dependent. !0GBe for instance.

JOOI, in what way are they not binary?

They are binary as far as the computer at each end is concerned, but
they are carried over the copper pairs (or fibre, but we are talking
about gold contacts!) as multi-level signals, effectively analogue
signals.

http://www.ieee802.org/802_tutorials/99-July/mastut.pdf

--

Roger Hayter

On 27/01/2018 09:25, Roger Hayter wrote:
RJH wrote:

On 26/01/2018 21:15, Roger Hayter wrote:
snip
Don't forget that high speed digital signals or
*not* binary at the physical layer, but more like RF digitial signals,
multi-level and phase dependent. !0GBe for instance.

JOOI, in what way are they not binary?

They are binary as far as the computer at each end is concerned, but
they are carried over the copper pairs (or fibre, but we are talking
about gold contacts!) as multi-level signals, effectively analogue
signals.

http://www.ieee802.org/802_tutorials/99-July/mastut.pdf


Ooooh, didn't know that! Not sure what I thought happened, mind.

Presumably it gets unpacked at either end with no change to the data -
is the 'cost' some very minor latency perhaps?

The paper is way over my head, but thanks anyways. References to FEC
seem to be relevant, but I'm not sure.

--
Cheers, Rob

RJH wrote:

On 27/01/2018 09:25, Roger Hayter wrote:
RJH wrote:

On 26/01/2018 21:15, Roger Hayter wrote:
snip
Don't forget that high speed digital signals or
*not* binary at the physical layer, but more like RF digitial signals,
multi-level and phase dependent. !0GBe for instance.

JOOI, in what way are they not binary?

They are binary as far as the computer at each end is concerned, but
they are carried over the copper pairs (or fibre, but we are talking
about gold contacts!) as multi-level signals, effectively analogue
signals.

http://www.ieee802.org/802_tutorials/99-July/mastut.pdf


Ooooh, didn't know that! Not sure what I thought happened, mind.

Presumably it gets unpacked at either end with no change to the data -
is the 'cost' some very minor latency perhaps?

The paper is way over my head, but thanks anyways. References to FEC
seem to be relevant, but I'm not sure.

The main point I was making was that we now get the very most out of our
copper for digital signals, to the point that they are as critical for
good contacts as low level analogue signals. In fact, more so because
of transmission line effects. Any intrinsic robustness of digital
signals has been traded for frankly incredible (to someone trying to get
up to 30MHz out of a pentode fifty years ago) bandwidths.

--

Roger Hayter