"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 11 October 2017 17:27:33 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 11 October 2017 14:44:08 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 4 October 2017 17:25:28 UTC+1, Dave W wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 4 October 2017 15:05:02 UTC+1, James Wilkinson
Sword
wrote:
On Wed, 04 Oct 2017 14:45:08 +0100, whisky-dave

wrote:

On Wednesday, 4 October 2017 13:05:15 UTC+1, James Wilkinson
Sword
wrote:
On Wed, 04 Oct 2017 12:21:28 +0100, whisky-dave
wrote:

On Wednesday, 4 October 2017 00:20:32 UTC+1, James
Wilkinson
Sword
wrote:
On Tue, 03 Oct 2017 23:50:44 +0100, Steve Walker
wrote:

On 03/10/2017 23:28, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
SNAFU. Situation normal, all ****ed up. Nobody thinks
before
designing
things.

There may well be a reason - with many traditional locks
you
can
slide a
button on the inside, which prevents a key being used
from
the
outside.
The "one key prevents another being inserted" may be a
deliberate
feature to "replicate" this function.

Never seen the point in that. I have a traditional Yale
type
lock
and have never used that button. Why would I wish to
prevent
someone (probably myself) with a valid key from unlocking
the
door?

I wouldn;t want someone breaking into my place when I was
there
what
would be the point of them doing that unles sit was the
fire
brigade
or a medical emergancy.
People have used bolts on doors and mortice locks been
locked
at
night for years I thought most people locked themselves in.

But if the lock works properly and cannot be picked, why do
you
need
extra steps to prevent someone with a valid key from
unlocking
it?

What makes you so sure it's a valid key ? whatever that means.
Are skeleton keys valid. ?

Which would mean the lock is rubbish. If you're out of your
house,
how
can you lock it from the inside to prevent a key being used?

You can't, but when leaving the house you have to have some way
of
getting
back in, but when already in the house you don't need a way to
get
in
because you're already in.

Leaving your key in the door when you're inside has advanatges
too,
such
as in a fire you don't have to go find your key and neither does
anyone
else who might happen to be in your house.
There are disadvantages too if someone broke in or could get to
yuor
key
through the letter bix like I did once. (although) that was an
advantage
in my case.

I thought that doors only had one key in general use,

What makes you think that ? I knopw couples that have a key
each some even give a key to thier kids when they are old enough.

Yeah, IMO its stupid not to do it that way for all but the youngest
kids.

Unless you can't trust the kid for some reason

The only real consideration there is that some lose things a lot
and some are mindlessly paranoid about what someone else
might do with a lost key. Unlikely to be much of a problem
with most given that hardly anyone is likely to know what
the key fits, tho I spose you could argue that if the loser is
a teenager, they might have arsehole druggy mates who do.

Or that they are carrying something with their name and address on it.
Which is why I think it's not a good idea to walk around with a driver
license,

Not possible in many jurisdictions, you have to have your drivers
license on you when the cops pull you over for a breath test etc.

passport or any other info where you details
can be easily aquried just by looking and reading.

Ditto when you have to show you are legally entitled
to be there etc or just need some form of ID when
picking up a parcel you have had carded etc.

And only the worst klutz would lose their
wallet and keys at the same time anyway.

And its all academic now with decent modern electronic
locks which work on RFIDs that can't get lost because it
on a rugged plastic strip on your wrist etc.

And with kids, you can work out where they are when they
havent returned home after school when they were sposed
to and can see that they are round at their mate's instead etc.

Mad to never give a kid like that a key so that someone
else has to always be home to let them into the house
now that so many have both or the only parent working.

Depends on the kid and situation.

There are **** all kids where that would make any sense
and it makes much more sense to have an RFID that sees
the door unlock automatically when the kid shows up at
the door than to have it knock on the door and have to
have someone come to the door and let them in etc.

or other same with 'adults' too.

with the spare key in
some safe place, in which case the problem doesn't arise.

What do you mean in a safe place ?

Where the house occupants can get at it
easily, but a burglar is unlikely to find it.

Yes that's the idea.

Easy to do if the hidden key is only ever used very
occasionally when someone forgets to take the key
with them and is in the habit of just shutting the
door behind them as they leave. Trivially fixed by
changing the lock so it has to be locked with a key.

But most locks that I know of for front doors do lock when the door
is closed. I think most households in the UK have this type of door.

Irrelevant to what makes sense now with proper electronic locks.

which is the oppersite for car doors which anyone can open once unlocked.

With car doors, the best of them have a button next to the driver
so that little kids can't open the door and fall out of the car when
the car is moving and allows you to lock the doors if some road
rage ape like the PHucker shows up outside your car threatening you.

When we were kids we used to do that with the car
key, the spare was kept inside the hinged door that
covered the petrol tank filler on the Zephyr estate.

I guess that's OK unless someone is watching.

Unlikely that they would find the car again some time
later, remember what they saw and use the key to steal it.

Never happened with us.

Cars get stolen to order these thefts are planned.

But that doesnt happen when someone has noticed one
of the kids getting into the car in the car park that way.

And this stuff is all academic now with modern RFID locks anyway.

If yuo are stealing a car for anythig other than perhaps
a joy ride you'd be watching it and teh person using it.

But are very unlikely to ever see a kid using a concealed key
and the kid will be in the car then anyway and will be able
to call the cops on his phone you try to steal it anyway.

Great when out shopping with the car in the big
carparks so the kids could go off by themselves
and be able to get in the car when they arrived
back at the car before the driver did.

I guess so but I can't work out the advantage in that.

Yes, you actually are that stupid.

I wouldnlt be stupid enough to hand car keys to kids telling
them to go wait in the car while I shop or do anything else.

Everyone goes shopping and returns to the car at different times, ****wit.

Why can't the kids learn to wait for the adults to get back to the car.

Corse they can, but its more convenient to be able to
wait in the car, particularly in winter with outside carparks.

So they are in the car with the keys

Nope, just the DOOR key, not the key to ignition, ****wit.

and no one will think look a car with keys, easier to steal.

Cant steal the car with just the DOOR key, ****wit.

If the key is left in the lock inside then you won't be able to lock
the door from the outside, in fact the key won't go in the lock.

But the key can be inserted on the inside well after its been
locked from the outside when someone leaves the house earlier.

So, how does that changes things ?

It means you can't get into the house with the key, ****wit.

If one is in the house, the other can ring to be let in.

What happens IF that person dies or is taken seriously ill.

Doesnt happen often enough to matter and
the hidden key fixes that problem anyway.

It does happens,

Not often enough to matter. And you can always break
in in the very unlikely event that that does happen.

That's how I got my cat.

Its how **** all get their cat.

Person died in teh housbe opersite a friends, no one had
seen him for 3 days and the door locked from the inside,

And its completely trivial to have a decent modern
alarm system which calls the relos or cops if there
has been no movement for a specified time.

the police had to break the door down.

Not with a decent modern electronic lock that can be
opened using anyone with the authority to do that.

So good for security but not very good for much else.

Even sillier than you usually manage, and thats saying something.

and hidden keys are OK if you know where they are and can get to them.

Duh.

Most burlgulars have a pretty good idea where these so called secrete key
places are.

All academic now with decent modern electronic locks that dont need any
hidden key.

And no burglar is going to waste its time checking all the possible
hiding places anyway, they'll just break the window silently.

Last year a care for downstairs couldn't get in to help the old lady
downstairs because she was bedridden so couldn't answer the door.

So that person should have their own key. Hardly rocket science.

They can't have their own key

Corse they can. And they dont need to anyway now, just have their own RFID
or
have their phone authorised to unlock the door automatically when they show
up.

the care company would need to keep all the keys for every person that
look after

Nope, just have their RFID have the door open auto.

And have that cancelled when they no longer work for the care operation.

This is why the care company had a unitl installed on the outside
of the door with a combination that you needed to type in in order
to open the biox to get the key to the door, it's standard practice.

Dinosaur ****. Much better to install a proper modern electronic
lock that will automatically detect an authorised carer at the door
and unlock automatically and ping so the occupant knows that
the carer has just shown up and been let in.

With no possibility of some goon smashing the box with the
combination lock on it to get the key in the middle of the night.

The key was in a box that had a combination lock and the carer was
? covering for someone that was off work due to ill health, her phone
had just died (power wise) so she could know the care compnay to
get the combination, lucmkily I was in and luckily she had an old
iphone with 30 pin connector so charged her phone enough to
make the call to get the combination to the key.

And she would have been able to find someone with their
own phone and call using that to get the combination.

yes she cou,d have approached any starnger in teh street at 8pm

Makes a lot more sense to knock on the door of other units in the building,
****wit.

and asked to borrow thier phone and phoned from an unkiown number
asking for the combination to get into a house. yes very secure.

Trivially easy to secure by requiring the carer to provide a
password before they get told the combination, ****wit.

And none of that stupid **** is needed when the operation
has enough of a clue to have a proper electronic lock installed
instead of a stupid dinosaur box with a key in it anyway.

reams of your **** flushed where it belongs

"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Thursday, 12 October 2017 12:25:58 UTC+1, Bob Eager wrote:
On Thu, 12 Oct 2017 03:19:14 -0700, whisky-dave wrote:

On Wednesday, 11 October 2017 17:25:28 UTC+1, Bob Eager wrote:
On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 12:21:51 +0100, Dave W wrote:

the other can ring to be let in.

What happens IF that person dies or is taken seriously ill.

You can't get in, either because you left the house by slamming the
Yale lock without having its key, or you left the house via the key
lock we're talking about, and the person put their own key in the
lock after you'd gone.

Which is why I can unlock our front door from my mobile.

Can others .

No. At least, a vrowbar would be easier. It has 2FA.

So no one else can get into your property ?

Anyone else you authorise can too. And with fancy rules
about when they can do that too, even to the extent of
only being able to get in while you are observing what
they get up to on the surveillance cameras etc.

what happens if something goes wrong with the phone ?,

You log on to the system with any phone you like.

what if someone such as the wife or kids want to get in ?

Everything from their own phone also works to the
RFID that is on little kids wrist auto opens it too.

And you can set it so the little kids can get in but not out too.

I'm glad I don;t have such an inflexable system.

You always have been a pathetic excuse for a troll.

"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Thursday, 12 October 2017 13:55:34 UTC+1, Bob Eager wrote:
On Thu, 12 Oct 2017 05:27:02 -0700, whisky-dave wrote:

On Thursday, 12 October 2017 12:25:58 UTC+1, Bob Eager wrote:
On Thu, 12 Oct 2017 03:19:14 -0700, whisky-dave wrote:

On Wednesday, 11 October 2017 17:25:28 UTC+1, Bob Eager wrote:
On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 12:21:51 +0100, Dave W wrote:

the other can ring to be let in.

What happens IF that person dies or is taken seriously ill.

You can't get in, either because you left the house by slamming
the Yale lock without having its key, or you left the house via
the key lock we're talking about, and the person put their own
key
in the lock after you'd gone.

Which is why I can unlock our front door from my mobile.

Can others .

No. At least, a vrowbar would be easier. It has 2FA.

So no one else can get into your property ? what happens if something
goes wrong with the phone ?, what if someone such as the wife or kids
want to get in ?

The normal entry method is a key. Those flat metal things.

So the same problem as anyone else would have with a key from it getting
lost stolen or broken.


The family all have the same phone capability.

So anyone with the phone can get in too,

Nope, the Touch ID wont work for them, stupid.

well hopefully whatever security is on your phone
and everyone else in the family that has it.

Try that again in english, we dont read drunken goggledegook.

Of course we all know phones with such security never get stolen.

Doesnt matter if they are, they are no use to the thief, ****wit.

And well implemented phones tell you where they are when they have been
stolen too.

On Thu, 12 Oct 2017 17:51:03 +0100, Dave W wrote:

"Bob Eager" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 12 Oct 2017 07:16:26 -0700, whisky-dave wrote:

On Thursday, 12 October 2017 13:55:34 UTC+1, Bob Eager wrote:
On Thu, 12 Oct 2017 05:27:02 -0700, whisky-dave wrote:

On Thursday, 12 October 2017 12:25:58 UTC+1, Bob Eager wrote:
On Thu, 12 Oct 2017 03:19:14 -0700, whisky-dave wrote:

On Wednesday, 11 October 2017 17:25:28 UTC+1, Bob Eager wrote:
On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 12:21:51 +0100, Dave W wrote:

the other can ring to be let in.

What happens IF that person dies or is taken seriously ill.

You can't get in, either because you left the house by
slamming the Yale lock without having its key, or you left
the house via the key lock we're talking about, and the
person put their own key in the lock after you'd gone.

Which is why I can unlock our front door from my mobile.

Can others .

No. At least, a vrowbar would be easier. It has 2FA.

So no one else can get into your property ? what happens if
something goes wrong with the phone ?, what if someone such as the
wife or kids want to get in ?

The normal entry method is a key. Those flat metal things.

So the same problem as anyone else would have with a key from it
getting lost stolen or broken.

No.

One can get into the house using a key.

If that is lost or stolen, or forgotten, one can use the phone to gain
entry.

The family all have the same phone capability.

So anyone with the phone can get in too, well hopefully whatever
security is on your phone and everyone else in the family that has it.
Of course we all know phones with such security never get stolen.

You clearly don't understand what 2FA is.

I've never heard of a lock that can be opened by a mobile before; it
must be electric.

It is.

I built the controller and wrote the software.

Presumably it stays locked when there's a power cut.

Yes. One can choose that action when purchasing the item (it's a normal
Yale high security lock, but the part on the door frame is replaced with
the electric version.

(I don't know what 2FA is)

Two factor authentication. "Something you know, something you have,
soemthing you are".



--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On Thursday, 12 October 2017 17:24:58 UTC+1, Bob Eager wrote:
On Thu, 12 Oct 2017 07:16:26 -0700, whisky-dave wrote:

On Thursday, 12 October 2017 13:55:34 UTC+1, Bob Eager wrote:
On Thu, 12 Oct 2017 05:27:02 -0700, whisky-dave wrote:

On Thursday, 12 October 2017 12:25:58 UTC+1, Bob Eager wrote:
On Thu, 12 Oct 2017 03:19:14 -0700, whisky-dave wrote:

On Wednesday, 11 October 2017 17:25:28 UTC+1, Bob Eager wrote:
On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 12:21:51 +0100, Dave W wrote:

the other can ring to be let in.

What happens IF that person dies or is taken seriously ill.

You can't get in, either because you left the house by slamming
the Yale lock without having its key, or you left the house via
the key lock we're talking about, and the person put their own
key in the lock after you'd gone.

Which is why I can unlock our front door from my mobile.

Can others .

No. At least, a vrowbar would be easier. It has 2FA.

So no one else can get into your property ? what happens if
something goes wrong with the phone ?, what if someone such as the
wife or kids want to get in ?

The normal entry method is a key. Those flat metal things.

So the same problem as anyone else would have with a key from it getting
lost stolen or broken.

No.

One can get into the house using a key.

can you get into the house using an app on the phone.


If that is lost or stolen, or forgotten, one can use the phone to gain
entry.

I suppose no one else can use a phonme and app to get in either are you the only person in the world that can do this app and phone trick ?


The family all have the same phone capability.

So anyone with the phone can get in too, well hopefully whatever
security is on your phone and everyone else in the family that has it.
Of course we all know phones with such security never get stolen.

You clearly don't understand what 2FA is.

I do as I use it but I don't see how it would work on a front door.

On Thursday, 12 October 2017 17:24:58 UTC+1, Bob Eager wrote:
On Thu, 12 Oct 2017 07:16:26 -0700, whisky-dave wrote:

On Thursday, 12 October 2017 13:55:34 UTC+1, Bob Eager wrote:
On Thu, 12 Oct 2017 05:27:02 -0700, whisky-dave wrote:

On Thursday, 12 October 2017 12:25:58 UTC+1, Bob Eager wrote:
On Thu, 12 Oct 2017 03:19:14 -0700, whisky-dave wrote:

On Wednesday, 11 October 2017 17:25:28 UTC+1, Bob Eager wrote:
On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 12:21:51 +0100, Dave W wrote:

the other can ring to be let in.

What happens IF that person dies or is taken seriously ill.

You can't get in, either because you left the house by slamming
the Yale lock without having its key, or you left the house via
the key lock we're talking about, and the person put their own
key in the lock after you'd gone.

Which is why I can unlock our front door from my mobile.

Can others .

No. At least, a vrowbar would be easier. It has 2FA.

So no one else can get into your property ? what happens if
something goes wrong with the phone ?, what if someone such as the
wife or kids want to get in ?

The normal entry method is a key. Those flat metal things.

So the same problem as anyone else would have with a key from it getting
lost stolen or broken.

No.

One can get into the house using a key.

Yes well done anyone can get into the house using the correct key or who is skilled enough to pick the lock.


If that is lost or stolen, or forgotten, one can use the phone to gain
entry.

and if that lost key is stolen or found then anyone with that key can also get into your home. a 2FA phone will NOT stop that from happening.


The family all have the same phone capability.

So anyone with the phone can get in too, well hopefully whatever
security is on your phone and everyone else in the family that has it.
Of course we all know phones with such security never get stolen.

You clearly don't understand what 2FA is.

I do I use it, but I wouldn't use it on my front door.

On Thursday, 12 October 2017 19:54:14 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 11 October 2017 17:27:33 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 11 October 2017 14:44:08 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 4 October 2017 17:25:28 UTC+1, Dave W wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 4 October 2017 15:05:02 UTC+1, James Wilkinson
Sword
wrote:
On Wed, 04 Oct 2017 14:45:08 +0100, whisky-dave

wrote:

On Wednesday, 4 October 2017 13:05:15 UTC+1, James Wilkinson
Sword
wrote:
On Wed, 04 Oct 2017 12:21:28 +0100, whisky-dave
wrote:

On Wednesday, 4 October 2017 00:20:32 UTC+1, James
Wilkinson
Sword
wrote:
On Tue, 03 Oct 2017 23:50:44 +0100, Steve Walker
wrote:

On 03/10/2017 23:28, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
SNAFU. Situation normal, all ****ed up. Nobody thinks
before
designing
things.

There may well be a reason - with many traditional locks
you
can
slide a
button on the inside, which prevents a key being used
from
the
outside.
The "one key prevents another being inserted" may be a
deliberate
feature to "replicate" this function.

Never seen the point in that. I have a traditional Yale
type
lock
and have never used that button. Why would I wish to
prevent
someone (probably myself) with a valid key from unlocking
the
door?

I wouldn;t want someone breaking into my place when I was
there
what
would be the point of them doing that unles sit was the
fire
brigade
or a medical emergancy.
People have used bolts on doors and mortice locks been
locked
at
night for years I thought most people locked themselves in.

But if the lock works properly and cannot be picked, why do
you
need
extra steps to prevent someone with a valid key from
unlocking
it?

What makes you so sure it's a valid key ? whatever that means.
Are skeleton keys valid. ?

Which would mean the lock is rubbish. If you're out of your
house,
how
can you lock it from the inside to prevent a key being used?

You can't, but when leaving the house you have to have some way
of
getting
back in, but when already in the house you don't need a way to
get
in
because you're already in.

Leaving your key in the door when you're inside has advanatges
too,
such
as in a fire you don't have to go find your key and neither does
anyone
else who might happen to be in your house.
There are disadvantages too if someone broke in or could get to
yuor
key
through the letter bix like I did once. (although) that was an
advantage
in my case.

I thought that doors only had one key in general use,

What makes you think that ? I knopw couples that have a key
each some even give a key to thier kids when they are old enough.

Yeah, IMO its stupid not to do it that way for all but the youngest
kids.

Unless you can't trust the kid for some reason

The only real consideration there is that some lose things a lot
and some are mindlessly paranoid about what someone else
might do with a lost key. Unlikely to be much of a problem
with most given that hardly anyone is likely to know what
the key fits, tho I spose you could argue that if the loser is
a teenager, they might have arsehole druggy mates who do.

Or that they are carrying something with their name and address on it.
Which is why I think it's not a good idea to walk around with a driver
license,

Not possible in many jurisdictions, you have to have your drivers
license on you when the cops pull you over for a breath test etc.

We aren't in many jurisdictions we are in the UK.




And only the worst klutz would lose their
wallet and keys at the same time anyway.

If you're stupid enough to carry them around with you.
I've seen wallets with keyholders and card holders built


And its all academic now with decent modern electronic
locks which work on RFIDs that can't get lost because it
on a rugged plastic strip on your wrist etc.

I haven't seen then avaible yet, I came up with that solution mote than 5 years ago for a student project.
Apart from 'reward' cars all credit cards appear to be the saem size I think they call, it credit card size. But that chip and pin is pretty small buy the antennea sued ten to go around the card which is why they sometimes stop working i the card is flexed too often the antenna breaks.
If you could make the antennas smaller you could even have a 'card' tattoo.
But they didn;t likje my idea of us tattooing circuits on student arms or inserting circuits under students skin like we do with library books.
SO don;t tell me about RFID I've been using that tech on my cats for years.
You could also use it for opening front doors too, and any other doors, which is one of the problems I would have thought they could solve here, but they can't.

You could even have RFID for opening car doors but currently they don't.


And with kids, you can work out where they are when they
havent returned home after school when they were sposed
to and can see that they are round at their mate's instead etc.

Yes and so can other track your kids.
But of course they haven't worked it out yet, as you should know from tracking criminals they seem to need some sort of ankle braclet.


Mad to never give a kid like that a key so that someone
else has to always be home to let them into the house
now that so many have both or the only parent working.

Depends on the kid and situation.

There are **** all kids where that would make any sense
and it makes much more sense to have an RFID that sees
the door unlock automatically when the kid shows up at
the door than to have it knock on the door and have to
have someone come to the door and let them in etc.

But they don't do it why ? try thinking about it.

if ou want to break into a house grab the kid on their way home from school simple isn't it.


But most locks that I know of for front doors do lock when the door
is closed. I think most households in the UK have this type of door.

Irrelevant to what makes sense now with proper electronic locks.

Very relivent as to what is avaible and at what price which are the reasons it really hasn't happened yet.





which is the oppersite for car doors which anyone can open once unlocked.

With car doors, the best of them have a button next to the driver
so that little kids can't open the door and fall out of the car when
the car is moving and allows you to lock the doors if some road
rage ape like the PHucker shows up outside your car threatening you.

Which just shows how useless the idea actually is because cars do get stolen even with the kids inside and why if you wanted to steal the car would you wait until the kids got in and locked the doors, just wait and the checkout for the clueless parent to hand their keys over to the kid and go take the keys from the kid just like you'd take sweets from them, far easier than car jacking from an adult at traffic lights just wait in a car park.



When we were kids we used to do that with the car
key, the spare was kept inside the hinged door that
covered the petrol tank filler on the Zephyr estate.

I guess that's OK unless someone is watching.

Unlikely that they would find the car again some time
later, remember what they saw and use the key to steal it.

Never happened with us.

Cars get stolen to order these thefts are planned.

But that doesnt happen when someone has noticed one
of the kids getting into the car in the car park that way.

Yes it does.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...five-back.html



And this stuff is all academic now with modern RFID locks anyway.

yeah sure, they tell you that so they can charge a fortune.


If yuo are stealing a car for anythig other than perhaps
a joy ride you'd be watching it and teh person using it.

But are very unlikely to ever see a kid using a concealed key
and the kid will be in the car then anyway and will be able
to call the cops on his phone you try to steal it anyway.

The kids are on the way to the car in the car park, why wait uintil they are in the car locking the doiior, get to them as they unlock the door or before even getting in the car.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...five-back.html
why didnl;t teh 5 or 8 yearold phone the police ?






I wouldnlt be stupid enough to hand car keys to kids telling
them to go wait in the car while I shop or do anything else.

Everyone goes shopping and returns to the car at different times, ****wit..

Why ? I remmeber goign shoppoing with my parents we left the house together and returned together, it wasn't difficult to work out.




Why can't the kids learn to wait for the adults to get back to the car.

Corse they can, but its more convenient to be able to
wait in the car, particularly in winter with outside carparks.

So they are in the car with the keys

Nope, just the DOOR key, not the key to ignition, ****wit.

Why put them in the car why not leave them at home and are yuo saying there's no way to steal a car unless you have the ignition key.



and no one will think look a car with keys, easier to steal.

Cant steal the car with just the DOOR key, ****wit.

People steal cars without even that, just load them up on a tralier if you really want it.




If the key is left in the lock inside then you won't be able to lock
the door from the outside, in fact the key won't go in the lock.

But the key can be inserted on the inside well after its been
locked from the outside when someone leaves the house earlier.

So, how does that changes things ?

It means you can't get into the house with the key, ****wit.

Yes and that is the point isn't it, at last you;ve got it and in under 6 months well done. That is the advantage of leaving your key in the lock on the inside in that NO ONE can get in with a skeleton key or a copy or duplicate of your key
or the key theyv stole fromk yuor kid while they were at school.
This is one reason you really shouldn't give a young kid a key to your house or anything else of value.
You are probbely stupid enough to give a credit card to a kid with the pin no. too.


The rest of your **** flushed were it belongs.


That's how I got my cat.

Its how **** all get their cat.

I did.
Others get cats from people that have passed on.

The neirgbours saw the cat at the window a number of times but hadn;t seen the owner let it out as he was regually seen pottering about in the front garden and the cat watching him.


Person died in teh housbe opersite a friends, no one had
seen him for 3 days and the door locked from the inside,

And its completely trivial to have a decent modern
alarm system which calls the relos or cops if there
has been no movement for a specified time.

NO such thing for most. Few people have such advanced systems and most don't work very well anyway.


the police had to break the door down.

Not with a decent modern electronic lock that can be
opened using anyone with the authority to do that.

but few spend 1000s on such a thing, especaially when renting the property,
you don't go installing your own personal secutiry system, I bet you haven't got one in your tin dunny.



and hidden keys are OK if you know where they are and can get to them.

Duh.

Most burlgulars have a pretty good idea where these so called secrete key
places are.

All academic now with decent modern electronic locks that dont need any
hidden key.

and too expensive for most that's why they don't have them.



And no burglar is going to waste its time checking all the possible
hiding places anyway, they'll just break the window silently.


even with your multi 1000s spend on the RFID.




Last year a care for downstairs couldn't get in to help the old lady
downstairs because she was bedridden so couldn't answer the door.

So that person should have their own key. Hardly rocket science.

They can't have their own key

Corse they can. And they dont need to anyway now, just have their own RFID
or
have their phone authorised to unlock the door automatically when they show
up.

You really are that stupid aren't you.
Putting such things on doors is very expensive here it;s £1000 per door plus installation costs plus paying group4 some annual fee.

I bet you don't have such a system, if you do tell us which one and where it can be brought.




the care company would need to keep all the keys for every person that
look after

Nope, just have their RFID have the door open auto.

Makes you wonder why it isn't done, well some of us know mostly it cost and that it;s not a very good system for such a thing, how would the ambulance service get access will, they need to carry RFID cards for every house in the area. ?

They donlt even use RFID and the like in prisions or in hospitals or anywhere esle where security realy matters, I know because we have they syste=m here and it;s pretty much a waste of time and money.


Your talking **** yet again, and haven't a clue so the rest of yuor **** has been sent back to wear it belongs.

On Thursday, 12 October 2017 20:11:13 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Thursday, 12 October 2017 12:25:58 UTC+1, Bob Eager wrote:
On Thu, 12 Oct 2017 03:19:14 -0700, whisky-dave wrote:

On Wednesday, 11 October 2017 17:25:28 UTC+1, Bob Eager wrote:
On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 12:21:51 +0100, Dave W wrote:

the other can ring to be let in.

What happens IF that person dies or is taken seriously ill.

You can't get in, either because you left the house by slamming the
Yale lock without having its key, or you left the house via the key
lock we're talking about, and the person put their own key in the
lock after you'd gone.

Which is why I can unlock our front door from my mobile.

Can others .

No. At least, a vrowbar would be easier. It has 2FA.

So no one else can get into your property ?

Anyone else you authorise can too.

and how do you do that, yuo havenlt a clue have you.



I've just had to go down to open the doors controlled by RFID because the studetns can't get in there's something wrong and thier RFIDs aren't triggering the door, working fine yetsreday not working today.


And with fancy rules
about when they can do that too, even to the extent of
only being able to get in while you are observing what
they get up to on the surveillance cameras etc.

Of course all homes have high end security cameras that can detect all sorts of things what system do you have ?



what happens if something goes wrong with the phone ?,

You log on to the system with any phone you like.

and no one else can do that or can they ?


what if someone such as the wife or kids want to get in ?

Everything from their own phone also works to the
RFID that is on little kids wrist auto opens it too.

Nothing like that exists yet, that actually works.

whisky-dave wrote:
On Thursday, 12 October 2017 19:54:14 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 11 October 2017 17:27:33 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 11 October 2017 14:44:08 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 4 October 2017 17:25:28 UTC+1, Dave W wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 4 October 2017 15:05:02 UTC+1, James Wilkinson
Sword
wrote:
On Wed, 04 Oct 2017 14:45:08 +0100, whisky-dave

wrote:

On Wednesday, 4 October 2017 13:05:15 UTC+1, James Wilkinson
Sword
wrote:
On Wed, 04 Oct 2017 12:21:28 +0100, whisky-dave
wrote:

On Wednesday, 4 October 2017 00:20:32 UTC+1, James
Wilkinson
Sword
wrote:
On Tue, 03 Oct 2017 23:50:44 +0100, Steve Walker
wrote:

On 03/10/2017 23:28, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
SNAFU. Situation normal, all ****ed up. Nobody thinks
before
designing
things.

There may well be a reason - with many traditional locks
you
can
slide a
button on the inside, which prevents a key being used
from
the
outside.
The "one key prevents another being inserted" may be a
deliberate
feature to "replicate" this function.

Never seen the point in that. I have a traditional Yale
type
lock
and have never used that button. Why would I wish to
prevent
someone (probably myself) with a valid key from unlocking
the
door?

I wouldn;t want someone breaking into my place when I was
there
what
would be the point of them doing that unles sit was the
fire
brigade
or a medical emergancy.
People have used bolts on doors and mortice locks been
locked
at
night for years I thought most people locked themselves in.

But if the lock works properly and cannot be picked, why do
you
need
extra steps to prevent someone with a valid key from
unlocking
it?

What makes you so sure it's a valid key ? whatever that means.
Are skeleton keys valid. ?

Which would mean the lock is rubbish. If you're out of your
house,
how
can you lock it from the inside to prevent a key being used?

You can't, but when leaving the house you have to have some way
of
getting
back in, but when already in the house you don't need a way to
get
in
because you're already in.

Leaving your key in the door when you're inside has advanatges
too,
such
as in a fire you don't have to go find your key and neither does
anyone
else who might happen to be in your house.
There are disadvantages too if someone broke in or could get to
yuor
key
through the letter bix like I did once. (although) that was an
advantage
in my case.

I thought that doors only had one key in general use,

What makes you think that ? I knopw couples that have a key
each some even give a key to thier kids when they are old enough.

Yeah, IMO its stupid not to do it that way for all but the youngest
kids.

Unless you can't trust the kid for some reason

The only real consideration there is that some lose things a lot
and some are mindlessly paranoid about what someone else
might do with a lost key. Unlikely to be much of a problem
with most given that hardly anyone is likely to know what
the key fits, tho I spose you could argue that if the loser is
a teenager, they might have arsehole druggy mates who do.

Or that they are carrying something with their name and address on it.
Which is why I think it's not a good idea to walk around with a driver
license,

Not possible in many jurisdictions, you have to have your drivers
license on you when the cops pull you over for a breath test etc.

We aren't in many jurisdictions we are in the UK.




And only the worst klutz would lose their
wallet and keys at the same time anyway.

If you're stupid enough to carry them around with you.
I've seen wallets with keyholders and card holders built


And its all academic now with decent modern electronic
locks which work on RFIDs that can't get lost because it
on a rugged plastic strip on your wrist etc.

I haven't seen then avaible yet, I came up with that solution mote than 5 years ago for a student project.
Apart from 'reward' cars all credit cards appear to be the saem size I think they call, it credit card size. But that chip and pin is pretty small buy the antennea sued ten to go around the card which is why they sometimes stop working i the card is flexed too often the antenna breaks.
If you could make the antennas smaller you could even have a 'card' tattoo.
But they didn;t likje my idea of us tattooing circuits on student arms or inserting circuits under students skin like we do with library books.
SO don;t tell me about RFID I've been using that tech on my cats for years.
You could also use it for opening front doors too, and any other doors, which is one of the problems I would have thought they could solve here, but they can't.

You could even have RFID for opening car doors but currently they don't.


And with kids, you can work out where they are when they
havent returned home after school when they were sposed
to and can see that they are round at their mate's instead etc.

Yes and so can other track your kids.
But of course they haven't worked it out yet, as you should know from tracking criminals they seem to need some sort of ankle braclet.


Mad to never give a kid like that a key so that someone
else has to always be home to let them into the house
now that so many have both or the only parent working.

Depends on the kid and situation.

There are **** all kids where that would make any sense
and it makes much more sense to have an RFID that sees
the door unlock automatically when the kid shows up at
the door than to have it knock on the door and have to
have someone come to the door and let them in etc.

But they don't do it why ? try thinking about it.

if ou want to break into a house grab the kid on their way home from school simple isn't it.


But most locks that I know of for front doors do lock when the door
is closed. I think most households in the UK have this type of door.

Irrelevant to what makes sense now with proper electronic locks.

Very relivent as to what is avaible and at what price which are the reasons it really hasn't happened yet.





which is the oppersite for car doors which anyone can open once unlocked.

With car doors, the best of them have a button next to the driver
so that little kids can't open the door and fall out of the car when
the car is moving and allows you to lock the doors if some road
rage ape like the PHucker shows up outside your car threatening you.

Which just shows how useless the idea actually is because cars do get stolen even with the kids inside and why if you wanted to steal the car would you wait until the kids got in and locked the doors, just wait and the checkout for the clueless parent to hand their keys over to the kid and go take the keys from the kid just like you'd take sweets from them, far easier than car jacking from an adult at traffic lights just wait in a car park.



When we were kids we used to do that with the car
key, the spare was kept inside the hinged door that
covered the petrol tank filler on the Zephyr estate.

I guess that's OK unless someone is watching.

Unlikely that they would find the car again some time
later, remember what they saw and use the key to steal it.

Never happened with us.

Cars get stolen to order these thefts are planned.

But that doesnt happen when someone has noticed one
of the kids getting into the car in the car park that way.

Yes it does.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...five-back.html



And this stuff is all academic now with modern RFID locks anyway.

yeah sure, they tell you that so they can charge a fortune.


If yuo are stealing a car for anythig other than perhaps
a joy ride you'd be watching it and teh person using it.

But are very unlikely to ever see a kid using a concealed key
and the kid will be in the car then anyway and will be able
to call the cops on his phone you try to steal it anyway.

The kids are on the way to the car in the car park, why wait uintil they are in the car locking the doiior, get to them as they unlock the door or before even getting in the car.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...five-back.html
why didnl;t teh 5 or 8 yearold phone the police ?






I wouldnlt be stupid enough to hand car keys to kids telling
them to go wait in the car while I shop or do anything else.

Everyone goes shopping and returns to the car at different times, ****wit.

Why ? I remmeber goign shoppoing with my parents we left the house together and returned together, it wasn't difficult to work out.




Why can't the kids learn to wait for the adults to get back to the car.

Corse they can, but its more convenient to be able to
wait in the car, particularly in winter with outside carparks.

So they are in the car with the keys

Nope, just the DOOR key, not the key to ignition, ****wit.

Why put them in the car why not leave them at home and are yuo saying there's no way to steal a car unless you have the ignition key.



and no one will think look a car with keys, easier to steal.

Cant steal the car with just the DOOR key, ****wit.

People steal cars without even that, just load them up on a tralier if you really want it.




If the key is left in the lock inside then you won't be able to lock
the door from the outside, in fact the key won't go in the lock.

But the key can be inserted on the inside well after its been
locked from the outside when someone leaves the house earlier.

So, how does that changes things ?

It means you can't get into the house with the key, ****wit.

Yes and that is the point isn't it, at last you;ve got it and in under 6 months well done. That is the advantage of leaving your key in the lock on the inside in that NO ONE can get in with a skeleton key or a copy or duplicate of your key
or the key theyv stole fromk yuor kid while they were at school.
This is one reason you really shouldn't give a young kid a key to your house or anything else of value.
You are probbely stupid enough to give a credit card to a kid with the pin no. too.


The rest of your **** flushed were it belongs.


That's how I got my cat.

Its how **** all get their cat.

I did.
Others get cats from people that have passed on.

The neirgbours saw the cat at the window a number of times but hadn;t seen the owner let it out as he was regually seen pottering about in the front garden and the cat watching him.


Person died in teh housbe opersite a friends, no one had
seen him for 3 days and the door locked from the inside,

And its completely trivial to have a decent modern
alarm system which calls the relos or cops if there
has been no movement for a specified time.

NO such thing for most. Few people have such advanced systems and most don't work very well anyway.


the police had to break the door down.

Not with a decent modern electronic lock that can be
opened using anyone with the authority to do that.

but few spend 1000s on such a thing, especaially when renting the property,
you don't go installing your own personal secutiry system, I bet you haven't got one in your tin dunny.



and hidden keys are OK if you know where they are and can get to them.

Duh.

Most burlgulars have a pretty good idea where these so called secrete key
places are.

All academic now with decent modern electronic locks that dont need any
hidden key.

and too expensive for most that's why they don't have them.



And no burglar is going to waste its time checking all the possible
hiding places anyway, they'll just break the window silently.


even with your multi 1000s spend on the RFID.




Last year a care for downstairs couldn't get in to help the old lady
downstairs because she was bedridden so couldn't answer the door.

So that person should have their own key. Hardly rocket science.

They can't have their own key

Corse they can. And they dont need to anyway now, just have their own RFID
or
have their phone authorised to unlock the door automatically when they show
up.

You really are that stupid aren't you.
Putting such things on doors is very expensive here it;s £1000 per door plus installation costs plus paying group4 some annual fee.

I bet you don't have such a system, if you do tell us which one and where it can be brought.




the care company would need to keep all the keys for every person that
look after

Nope, just have their RFID have the door open auto.

Makes you wonder why it isn't done, well some of us know mostly it cost and that it;s not a very good system for such a thing, how would the ambulance service get access will, they need to carry RFID cards for every house in the area. ?

They donlt even use RFID and the like in prisions or in hospitals or anywhere esle where security realy matters, I know because we have they syste=m here and it;s pretty much a waste of time and money.


Your talking **** yet again, and haven't a clue so the rest of yuor **** has been sent back to wear it belongs.



We have a bloke in NSW Australia who cuts the RFID bit out of an opal
card (like oyster card)and inserts it under his skin and the government
keeps cancelling it,don't know how they find out unless someone reports him.

whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 4 October 2017 19:34:20 UTC+1, Max Demian wrote:
On 04/10/2017 14:45, whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 4 October 2017 13:05:15 UTC+1, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Wed, 04 Oct 2017 12:21:28 +0100, whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 4 October 2017 00:20:32 UTC+1, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Tue, 03 Oct 2017 23:50:44 +0100, Steve Walker wrote:
On 03/10/2017 23:28, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:

SNAFU. Situation normal, all ****ed up. Nobody thinks before designing
things.

There may well be a reason - with many traditional locks you can slide a
button on the inside, which prevents a key being used from the outside.
The "one key prevents another being inserted" may be a deliberate
feature to "replicate" this function.

Never seen the point in that. I have a traditional Yale type lock and have never used that button. Why would I wish to prevent someone (probably myself) with a valid key from unlocking the door?

I wouldn;t want someone breaking into my place when I was there what would be the point of them doing that unles sit was the fire brigade or a medical emergancy.
People have used bolts on doors and mortice locks been locked at night for years I thought most people locked themselves in.

But if the lock works properly and cannot be picked, why do you need extra steps to prevent someone with a valid key from unlocking it?

What makes you so sure it's a valid key ? whatever that means.
Are skeleton keys valid. ?

Skeleton keys only work with simple, warded locks, only used on sheds
these days.

Not true as a friend of mine was a locksmith and he can get through certain doors without needing to drill out the locks.


He could pick them or they are master keyed,I can get in most sydney
electrical meter rooms with the same key.

Rod Speed wrote:


"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 4 October 2017 00:20:32 UTC+1, James Wilkinson Sword
wrote:
On Tue, 03 Oct 2017 23:50:44 +0100, Steve Walker
wrote:

On 03/10/2017 23:28, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
SNAFU. Situation normal, all ****ed up. Nobody thinks before
designing
things.

There may well be a reason - with many traditional locks you can
slide a
button on the inside, which prevents a key being used from the
outside.
The "one key prevents another being inserted" may be a deliberate
feature to "replicate" this function.

Never seen the point in that. I have a traditional Yale type lock
and have never used that button. Why would I wish to prevent someone
(probably myself) with a valid key from unlocking the door?

I wouldn;t want someone breaking into my place when
I was there what would be the point of them doing that
unles sit was the fire brigade or a medical emergancy.

And those wouldnt be picking the lock anyway, they
would break a window because that is a lot quicker.

People have used bolts on doors and mortice locks been locked
at night for years I thought most people locked themselves in.

But its more convenient to have some easy way of stopping
the lock being picked by just putting the key in the other side.

Main downside with that approach tho is if the crim breaks in,
it makes it a lot easier for them to get out again quickly if say
you start belting the **** out of them with a baseball bat etc.
And to carry items out that are too big to get through the window they
came in.

whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 4 October 2017 13:05:15 UTC+1, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Wed, 04 Oct 2017 12:21:28 +0100, whisky-dave wrote:

On Wednesday, 4 October 2017 00:20:32 UTC+1, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Tue, 03 Oct 2017 23:50:44 +0100, Steve Walker wrote:

On 03/10/2017 23:28, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
SNAFU. Situation normal, all ****ed up. Nobody thinks before designing
things.

There may well be a reason - with many traditional locks you can slide a
button on the inside, which prevents a key being used from the outside.
The "one key prevents another being inserted" may be a deliberate
feature to "replicate" this function.

Never seen the point in that. I have a traditional Yale type lock and have never used that button. Why would I wish to prevent someone (probably myself) with a valid key from unlocking the door?

I wouldn;t want someone breaking into my place when I was there what would be the point of them doing that unles sit was the fire brigade or a medical emergancy.
People have used bolts on doors and mortice locks been locked at night for years I thought most people locked themselves in.

But if the lock works properly and cannot be picked, why do you need extra steps to prevent someone with a valid key from unlocking it?

What makes you so sure it's a valid key ? whatever that means.
Are skeleton keys valid. ?

Any lock that a skeleton key can open is not a secure lock and usually
very old fashioned.

whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 4 October 2017 17:25:28 UTC+1, Dave W wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 4 October 2017 15:05:02 UTC+1, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Wed, 04 Oct 2017 14:45:08 +0100, whisky-dave
wrote:

On Wednesday, 4 October 2017 13:05:15 UTC+1, James Wilkinson Sword
wrote:
On Wed, 04 Oct 2017 12:21:28 +0100, whisky-dave
wrote:

On Wednesday, 4 October 2017 00:20:32 UTC+1, James Wilkinson Sword
wrote:
On Tue, 03 Oct 2017 23:50:44 +0100, Steve Walker
wrote:

On 03/10/2017 23:28, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
SNAFU. Situation normal, all ****ed up. Nobody thinks before
designing
things.

There may well be a reason - with many traditional locks you can
slide a
button on the inside, which prevents a key being used from the
outside.
The "one key prevents another being inserted" may be a deliberate
feature to "replicate" this function.

Never seen the point in that. I have a traditional Yale type lock
and have never used that button. Why would I wish to prevent
someone (probably myself) with a valid key from unlocking the door?

I wouldn;t want someone breaking into my place when I was there what
would be the point of them doing that unles sit was the fire brigade
or a medical emergancy.
People have used bolts on doors and mortice locks been locked at
night for years I thought most people locked themselves in.

But if the lock works properly and cannot be picked, why do you need
extra steps to prevent someone with a valid key from unlocking it?

What makes you so sure it's a valid key ? whatever that means.
Are skeleton keys valid. ?

Which would mean the lock is rubbish. If you're out of your house, how
can you lock it from the inside to prevent a key being used?

You can't, but when leaving the house you have to have some way of getting
back in, but when already in the house you don't need a way to get in
because you're already in.

Leaving your key in the door when you're inside has advanatges too, such
as in a fire you don't have to go find your key and neither does anyone
else who might happen to be in your house.
There are disadvantages too if someone broke in or could get to yuor key
through the letter bix like I did once. (although) that was an advantage
in my case.

I thought that doors only had one key in general use,

What makes you think that ? I knopw couples that have a key each some even give a key to thier kids when they are old enough.


with the spare key in
some safe place, in which case the problem doesn't arise.

What do you mean in a safe place ?

I have a key in a little combination strong box out side bolted to a
wall not on view from the door.


If a couple keep
one key each, then if one leaves the house taking the key with them, the
problem doesn't arise.

Which problem is that ?

If one is in the house,

IF.

the other can ring to be let
in.

What happens IF that person dies or is taken seriously ill.

If one of them does not keep the key in their pocket when they leave the
house,

Why wouldn;t they what do you expect tghem to do with it ?


then one of them will not be able to get in - no worse than a single
person forgetting to take the key with them when they leave the house via an
automatically locking door.

So not much use then is it.

--
Dave W

whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 11 October 2017 12:21:48 UTC+1, Dave W wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 4 October 2017 17:25:28 UTC+1, Dave W wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...

JWS rubbish snipped

You can't, but when leaving the house you have to have some way of
getting
back in, but when already in the house you don't need a way to get in
because you're already in.

Leaving your key in the door when you're inside has advanatges too,
such
as in a fire you don't have to go find your key and neither does anyone
else who might happen to be in your house.
There are disadvantages too if someone broke in or could get to yuor
key
through the letter bix like I did once. (although) that was an
advantage
in my case.

I thought that doors only had one key in general use,

What makes you think that ? I knopw couples that have a key each some
even give a key to thier kids when they are old enough.


with the spare key in
some safe place, in which case the problem doesn't arise.

What do you mean in a safe place ?

Anywhere except in the lock.

So yuo havenlt got a clue then have you.

Are you saying keeping a key under the flower pot in the front garden is a safe place ?


Relatively safe if it is nowhere the lock and you do not continually
access it in view of anyone





If a couple keep
one key each, then if one leaves the house taking the key with them, the
problem doesn't arise.

Which problem is that ?

The problem stated by the OP at the beginning of the thread.

So you forgot they want to keep a key in the door on the inside.


If one is in the house,

IF.

the other can ring to be let
in.

What happens IF that person dies or is taken seriously ill.

You can't get in, either because you left the house by slamming the Yale
lock without having its key,

where did you get that info from ?
because slamming a door hard doesn't change the way it locks.


or you left the house via the key lock we're
talking about, and the person put their own key in the lock after you'd
gone.

Yep and that's part of the problem isnlt it, decide which is the more to happen.



then one of them will not be able to get in - no worse than a single
person forgetting to take the key with them when they leave the house via
an
automatically locking door.

So not much use then is it.

It would be OK if the users acted sensibly.

Which isn't the question.

On Fri, 13 Oct 2017 02:43:03 -0700, whisky-dave wrote:

One can get into the house using a key.

Yes well done anyone can get into the house using the correct key or who
is skilled enough to pick the lock.

Of course. But that's the same for everyone. It's a pick-resistant lock
(BS 3621) and a solid door.

If that is lost or stolen, or forgotten, one can use the phone to gain
entry.

and if that lost key is stolen or found then anyone with that key can
also get into your home. a 2FA phone will NOT stop that from happening.

I never said it would. Usually it's because the key has been left inside
the house by the family member concerned.

If it's lost, I'd have the lock changed within half an hour. I keep a
spare cylinder and keys.

The family all have the same phone capability.

So anyone with the phone can get in too, well hopefully whatever
security is on your phone and everyone else in the family that has
it.
Of course we all know phones with such security never get stolen.

As I pointed out before, it has 2FA. You need both secrets, and only one
is on the phone.

You clearly don't understand what 2FA is.

I do I use it, but I wouldn't use it on my front door.

But elsewhere you said you didn't....



--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On Fri, 13 Oct 2017 22:41:47 +1100, FMurtz wrote:

I have a key in a little combination strong box out side bolted to a
wall not on view from the door.

I would have done that, but there is nowhere that isn't on view near our
door.

--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On Friday, 13 October 2017 12:23:47 UTC+1, FMurtz wrote:




We have a bloke in NSW Australia who cuts the RFID bit out of an opal
card (like oyster card)and inserts it under his skin and the government
keeps cancelling it,don't know how they find out unless someone reports him.

Ye sthat is starange as in teh winter when it;s cold enough I need to waer gloves I can put my card in the palm of my hand then the glove goes over that.
I wave my hand over the yellow sensor and I go through the barrier no ones ever stopped me and asked me how I do it.

On Friday, 13 October 2017 12:27:31 UTC+1, FMurtz wrote:
whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 4 October 2017 19:34:20 UTC+1, Max Demian wrote:
On 04/10/2017 14:45, whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 4 October 2017 13:05:15 UTC+1, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Wed, 04 Oct 2017 12:21:28 +0100, whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 4 October 2017 00:20:32 UTC+1, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Tue, 03 Oct 2017 23:50:44 +0100, Steve Walker wrote:
On 03/10/2017 23:28, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:

SNAFU. Situation normal, all ****ed up. Nobody thinks before designing
things.

There may well be a reason - with many traditional locks you can slide a
button on the inside, which prevents a key being used from the outside.
The "one key prevents another being inserted" may be a deliberate
feature to "replicate" this function.

Never seen the point in that. I have a traditional Yale type lock and have never used that button. Why would I wish to prevent someone (probably myself) with a valid key from unlocking the door?

I wouldn;t want someone breaking into my place when I was there what would be the point of them doing that unles sit was the fire brigade or a medical emergancy.
People have used bolts on doors and mortice locks been locked at night for years I thought most people locked themselves in.

But if the lock works properly and cannot be picked, why do you need extra steps to prevent someone with a valid key from unlocking it?

What makes you so sure it's a valid key ? whatever that means.
Are skeleton keys valid. ?

Skeleton keys only work with simple, warded locks, only used on sheds
these days.

Not true as a friend of mine was a locksmith and he can get through certain doors without needing to drill out the locks.


He could pick them or they are master keyed,I can get in most sydney
electrical meter rooms with the same key.

I can get into every electrical riser cupboard in the colleg using my power riser key which is the same for everyone.
These padlocks and keys were hanout out to everyone with a room with such a riser when they found out someone was climbing up the risers and breaking into offices, so everyone had to lock their riser cupboard. But security and everyone else said they should be accessable to anyone in the building that might need acess to them, so we brought 1000s of same keyed padlocks which we've had for about 7 years now without any problems.

On Fri, 13 Oct 2017 15:35:52 +0100, Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson"),
the pathological attention whore of all the uk ngs, blathered again:

FLUSH idiot's usual sick ****

--
More from Birdbrain Macaw's (now "James Wilkinson" LOL) strange sociopathic
world:
"I worked out that I often break TEN laws in one hour."
MID:

On Fri, 13 Oct 2017 15:37:17 +0100, Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson"),
the pathological attention whore of all the uk ngs, blathered again:



Why not?

You got a problem with how other people prefer doing things, sociopath?

--
More from Birdbrain Macaw's (now "James Wilkinson" LOL) weird sociopathic
world:
"The entire world has been ****ed over by the disabled. They think they
have the right to be able to go everywhere in their chairs. ****ing ramps
everywhere, extra expense for all. Parking spaces marked disabled
everywhere (although they're handy as they're always empty for me to use)."
MID:

On Fri, 13 Oct 2017 15:34:35 +0100, Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson"),

You clearly don't understand what 2FA is.

Maybe if you didn't use rare acronyms he would. I only know what it is
because one website I use has it.

Yeah, you are KNOWN as an idiot, Birdbrain!

--
More from Birdbrain Macaw's (now "James Wilkinson" LOL) strange sociopathic
world:
"I go hillwalking barefoot for hours in the snow, my feet just go red.
Extra blood, they can't freeze."
MID:

On Fri, 13 Oct 2017 15:33:55 +0100, Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson"),
the pathological attention whore of all the uk ngs, blathered again:


My method is easier. An RFID tag on my wrist. I can't lose that.

You lost your brain, you will lose that, too, Birdbrain!

--
More from Birdbrain Macaw's (now "James Wilkinson" LOL) sociopathic world:
"Oh come on, wars are fun!"
MID:

On Fri, 13 Oct 2017 15:33:24 +0100, Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson"),
the pathological attention whore of all the uk ngs, blathered again:


Until someone makes a mobile phone which can handle rain and being
dropped on concrete, they're unfit for purpose. Mine lives inside my
house.

Idiot! LOL

--
More from Birdbrain Macaw's (now "James Wilkinson" LOL) strange sociopathic
mind:
"Apparently a HUMAN head can continue to see for 20 seconds after losing the
body."
MID:

On Fri, 13 Oct 2017 15:45:58 +0100, Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson"),
the pathological attention whore of all the uk ngs, blathered again:



What's in this cupboard you need to access? A fusebox?

LOL Driveling idiot!

--
More from Birdbrain Macaw's (now "James Wilkinson" LOL) abnormal sociopathic
world:
"However I do like to make fun of people. For example, a professor once
told a secretary off for having a topless male model as the wallpaper on her
computer. So I told her he was a hypocrite, and that he had pictures of
transvestites on his (not as wallpaper, but stored on the hard disk). She
spread that around quite quickly."
MID:

On Fri, 13 Oct 2017 15:48:03 +0100, Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson"),
the pathological attention whore of all the uk ngs, blathered again:


I once parked my old Range Rover at the post office, then when I returned
I used my key to get into and start someone else's (he'd parked it only
two along from mine and I mistook it for mine). I was about to drive off
when I noticed his gloves on the passenger seat, glanced in the rearview
mirror to see if anyone had spotted me "breaking in", then saw my own car
behind me. I got out, locked his car, then left in my own.

That "happened" when you were stoned, hallucinating on the couch. I strongly
suspect MOST of your idiotic "stories" came into existence like that,
Birdbrain!

--
More of Birdbrain Macaw's of (now "James Wilkinson" LOL) sociopathic
"wisdom":
"If something is invisible it has no colour."
MID:

"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Thursday, 12 October 2017 17:24:58 UTC+1, Bob Eager wrote:
On Thu, 12 Oct 2017 07:16:26 -0700, whisky-dave wrote:

On Thursday, 12 October 2017 13:55:34 UTC+1, Bob Eager wrote:
On Thu, 12 Oct 2017 05:27:02 -0700, whisky-dave wrote:

On Thursday, 12 October 2017 12:25:58 UTC+1, Bob Eager wrote:
On Thu, 12 Oct 2017 03:19:14 -0700, whisky-dave wrote:

On Wednesday, 11 October 2017 17:25:28 UTC+1, Bob Eager wrote:
On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 12:21:51 +0100, Dave W wrote:

the other can ring to be let in.

What happens IF that person dies or is taken seriously ill.

You can't get in, either because you left the house by
slamming
the Yale lock without having its key, or you left the house
via
the key lock we're talking about, and the person put their own
key in the lock after you'd gone.

Which is why I can unlock our front door from my mobile.

Can others .

No. At least, a vrowbar would be easier. It has 2FA.

So no one else can get into your property ? what happens if
something goes wrong with the phone ?, what if someone such as the
wife or kids want to get in ?

The normal entry method is a key. Those flat metal things.

So the same problem as anyone else would have with a key from it
getting
lost stolen or broken.

No.

One can get into the house using a key.

can you get into the house using an app on the phone.


If that is lost or stolen, or forgotten, one can use the phone to gain
entry.

I suppose no one else can use a phonme and app to get in either

Corse they can't when they cant do the Touch ID on the phone
or supply the passcode the phone requires to allow it to be used.

are you the only person in the world that can do this app and phone trick
?

With that particular phone and lock, yep, you pathetic excuse for a troll.

The family all have the same phone capability.

So anyone with the phone can get in too, well hopefully whatever
security is on your phone and everyone else in the family that has it.
Of course we all know phones with such security never get stolen.

You clearly don't understand what 2FA is.

I do as I use it but I don't see how it would work on a front door.

It stops anyone else from using your phone to unlock the door, ****wit.

"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Thursday, 12 October 2017 17:24:58 UTC+1, Bob Eager wrote:
On Thu, 12 Oct 2017 07:16:26 -0700, whisky-dave wrote:

On Thursday, 12 October 2017 13:55:34 UTC+1, Bob Eager wrote:
On Thu, 12 Oct 2017 05:27:02 -0700, whisky-dave wrote:

On Thursday, 12 October 2017 12:25:58 UTC+1, Bob Eager wrote:
On Thu, 12 Oct 2017 03:19:14 -0700, whisky-dave wrote:

On Wednesday, 11 October 2017 17:25:28 UTC+1, Bob Eager wrote:
On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 12:21:51 +0100, Dave W wrote:

the other can ring to be let in.

What happens IF that person dies or is taken seriously ill.

You can't get in, either because you left the house by
slamming
the Yale lock without having its key, or you left the house
via
the key lock we're talking about, and the person put their own
key in the lock after you'd gone.

Which is why I can unlock our front door from my mobile.

Can others .

No. At least, a vrowbar would be easier. It has 2FA.

So no one else can get into your property ? what happens if
something goes wrong with the phone ?, what if someone such as the
wife or kids want to get in ?

The normal entry method is a key. Those flat metal things.

So the same problem as anyone else would have with a key from it
getting
lost stolen or broken.

No.

One can get into the house using a key.

Yes well done anyone can get into the house using the correct key or who
is skilled enough to pick the lock.


If that is lost or stolen, or forgotten, one can use the phone to gain
entry.

and if that lost key is stolen or found then anyone with that key can also
get into your home.

Not when you tell it that the key has been lost and to not let a key be used
until its been found.

a 2FA phone will NOT stop that from happening.

You are wrong, as always.

The family all have the same phone capability.

So anyone with the phone can get in too, well hopefully whatever
security is on your phone and everyone else in the family that has it.
Of course we all know phones with such security never get stolen.

You clearly don't understand what 2FA is.

I do I use it, but I wouldn't use it on my front door.

Yes, you are that terminal a ****wit/pathetic excuse for a troll.

"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Thursday, 12 October 2017 19:54:14 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 11 October 2017 17:27:33 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 11 October 2017 14:44:08 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 4 October 2017 17:25:28 UTC+1, Dave W wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 4 October 2017 15:05:02 UTC+1, James Wilkinson
Sword
wrote:
On Wed, 04 Oct 2017 14:45:08 +0100, whisky-dave

wrote:

On Wednesday, 4 October 2017 13:05:15 UTC+1, James
Wilkinson
Sword
wrote:
On Wed, 04 Oct 2017 12:21:28 +0100, whisky-dave
wrote:

On Wednesday, 4 October 2017 00:20:32 UTC+1, James
Wilkinson
Sword
wrote:
On Tue, 03 Oct 2017 23:50:44 +0100, Steve Walker
wrote:

On 03/10/2017 23:28, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
SNAFU. Situation normal, all ****ed up. Nobody
thinks
before
designing
things.

There may well be a reason - with many traditional
locks
you
can
slide a
button on the inside, which prevents a key being used
from
the
outside.
The "one key prevents another being inserted" may be
a
deliberate
feature to "replicate" this function.

Never seen the point in that. I have a traditional
Yale
type
lock
and have never used that button. Why would I wish to
prevent
someone (probably myself) with a valid key from
unlocking
the
door?

I wouldn;t want someone breaking into my place when I
was
there
what
would be the point of them doing that unles sit was the
fire
brigade
or a medical emergancy.
People have used bolts on doors and mortice locks been
locked
at
night for years I thought most people locked themselves
in.

But if the lock works properly and cannot be picked, why
do
you
need
extra steps to prevent someone with a valid key from
unlocking
it?

What makes you so sure it's a valid key ? whatever that
means.
Are skeleton keys valid. ?

Which would mean the lock is rubbish. If you're out of your
house,
how
can you lock it from the inside to prevent a key being used?

You can't, but when leaving the house you have to have some
way
of
getting
back in, but when already in the house you don't need a way to
get
in
because you're already in.

Leaving your key in the door when you're inside has advanatges
too,
such
as in a fire you don't have to go find your key and neither
does
anyone
else who might happen to be in your house.
There are disadvantages too if someone broke in or could get
to
yuor
key
through the letter bix like I did once. (although) that was an
advantage
in my case.

I thought that doors only had one key in general use,

What makes you think that ? I knopw couples that have a key
each some even give a key to thier kids when they are old enough.

Yeah, IMO its stupid not to do it that way for all but the youngest
kids.

Unless you can't trust the kid for some reason

The only real consideration there is that some lose things a lot
and some are mindlessly paranoid about what someone else
might do with a lost key. Unlikely to be much of a problem
with most given that hardly anyone is likely to know what
the key fits, tho I spose you could argue that if the loser is
a teenager, they might have arsehole druggy mates who do.

Or that they are carrying something with their name and address on it.
Which is why I think it's not a good idea to walk around with a driver
license,

Not possible in many jurisdictions, you have to have your drivers
license on you when the cops pull you over for a breath test etc.

And only the worst klutz would lose their
wallet and keys at the same time anyway.

If you're stupid enough to carry them around with you.
I've seen wallets with keyholders and card holders built

Only fools like you would use one of those for the key
they use multiple times a day for the front door key.

And its all academic now with decent modern electronic
locks which work on RFIDs that can't get lost because it
on a rugged plastic strip on your wrist etc.

I haven't seen then avaible yet,

Only because you wanked yourself completely blind and spend
so much of your time completely blotto in the gutter.

A number of people have already told you that they have them in
here and its completely trivial to find them even in the Apple Store
on your ****ing phone, and on Amazon, Ebay, Aliexpress etc etc etc.

You could even have RFID for opening car doors but currently they don't.

They do actually.

And with kids, you can work out where they are when they
havent returned home after school when they were sposed
to and can see that they are round at their mate's instead etc.

Yes and so can other track your kids.

Nope.

as you should know from tracking criminals
they seem to need some sort of ankle braclet.

Nope, You can get that for tracking anything you
like, your car, your bike, your pets etc etc etc.

Even a terminal ****wit such as yourself should have
noticed that they track wild animals world wide.

Mad to never give a kid like that a key so that someone
else has to always be home to let them into the house
now that so many have both or the only parent working.

Depends on the kid and situation.

There are **** all kids where that would make any sense
and it makes much more sense to have an RFID that sees
the door unlock automatically when the kid shows up at
the door than to have it knock on the door and have to
have someone come to the door and let them in etc.

But they don't do it

Those with even half a clue do.

if ou want to break into a house grab the kid on their way home from
school

Wont work when the kid hits the panic button on the
device that sees the cops show up in minutes, ****wit.

But most locks that I know of for front doors do lock when the door
is closed. I think most households in the UK have this type of door.

Irrelevant to what makes sense now with proper electronic locks.

Very relivent as to what is avaible and at what price
which are the reasons it really hasn't happened yet.

Its trivially buyable right now. Doesnt even cost that much.

In spades with the trackers that track anything you like.

which is the oppersite for car doors which anyone can open once
unlocked.

With car doors, the best of them have a button next to the driver
so that little kids can't open the door and fall out of the car when
the car is moving and allows you to lock the doors if some road
rage ape like the PHucker shows up outside your car threatening you.

Which just shows how useless the idea actually is because cars do get
stolen

Those with the best alarm systems dont and are fully tracked too.

When we were kids we used to do that with the car
key, the spare was kept inside the hinged door that
covered the petrol tank filler on the Zephyr estate.

I guess that's OK unless someone is watching.

Unlikely that they would find the car again some time
later, remember what they saw and use the key to steal it.

Never happened with us.

Cars get stolen to order these thefts are planned.

But that doesnt happen when someone has noticed one
of the kids getting into the car in the car park that way.

And this stuff is all academic now with modern RFID locks anyway.

yeah sure, they tell you that so they can charge a fortune.

They cost peanuts.

If yuo are stealing a car for anythig other than perhaps
a joy ride you'd be watching it and teh person using it.

But are very unlikely to ever see a kid using a concealed key
and the kid will be in the car then anyway and will be able
to call the cops on his phone you try to steal it anyway.

The kids are on the way to the car in the car park, why wait
uintil they are in the car locking the doiior, get to them as
they unlock the door or before even getting in the car.

And when the kid hits the panic button, the crims are ****ed.

The car wont start and all the crims can do is run off with
full footage of them allowing to the cops to recognise
them and chuck them in the slammer for years.

I wouldnlt be stupid enough to hand car keys to kids telling
them to go wait in the car while I shop or do anything else.

Everyone goes shopping and returns to the car at different times,
****wit.

Why ?

So no one has to twiddle their thumbs when someone else
is farting around doing stuff they arent interested in, ****wit.

Why can't the kids learn to wait for the adults to get back to the
car.

Corse they can, but its more convenient to be able to
wait in the car, particularly in winter with outside carparks.

So they are in the car with the keys

Nope, just the DOOR key, not the key to ignition, ****wit.

Why put them in the car why not leave them at home and are yuo
saying there's no way to steal a car unless you have the ignition key.

Not when the kid has hit the panic button and
the cops are pouring in to grab the crims, ****wit.

and no one will think look a car with keys, easier to steal.

Cant steal the car with just the DOOR key, ****wit.

People steal cars without even that, just load
them up on a tralier if you really want it.

No time for that when the kid has hit the panic button
and the cops are showing up in droves, ****wit.

none of the rest of your pathetic excuse for a troll
worth bothering with, all flushed where it belongs

"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Thursday, 12 October 2017 20:11:13 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Thursday, 12 October 2017 12:25:58 UTC+1, Bob Eager wrote:
On Thu, 12 Oct 2017 03:19:14 -0700, whisky-dave wrote:

On Wednesday, 11 October 2017 17:25:28 UTC+1, Bob Eager wrote:
On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 12:21:51 +0100, Dave W wrote:

the other can ring to be let in.

What happens IF that person dies or is taken seriously ill.

You can't get in, either because you left the house by slamming
the
Yale lock without having its key, or you left the house via the
key
lock we're talking about, and the person put their own key in the
lock after you'd gone.

Which is why I can unlock our front door from my mobile.

Can others .

No. At least, a vrowbar would be easier. It has 2FA.

So no one else can get into your property ?

Anyone else you authorise can too.

and how do you do that,

Using the app on your ****ing phone, ****wit.

And with fancy rules
about when they can do that too, even to the extent of
only being able to get in while you are observing what
they get up to on the surveillance cameras etc.

Of course all homes have high end security
cameras that can detect all sorts of things

Just those that arent owned by terminal ****wits such as yourself.

what system do you have ?

I already told you more than once, ****wit.

what happens if something goes wrong with the phone ?,

You log on to the system with any phone you like.

and no one else can do that

Nope, they cant do the 2FA.

or can they ?

Nope.

what if someone such as the wife or kids want to get in ?

Everything from their own phone also works to the
RFID that is on little kids wrist auto opens it too.

Nothing like that exists yet, that actually works.

Even sillier and more pig ignorant than you usually manage and thats saying
something.

Even the PHucker managed to find one and buy it and uses it.

"FMurtz" wrote in message
web.com...
whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 4 October 2017 17:25:28 UTC+1, Dave W wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 4 October 2017 15:05:02 UTC+1, James Wilkinson Sword
wrote:
On Wed, 04 Oct 2017 14:45:08 +0100, whisky-dave

wrote:

On Wednesday, 4 October 2017 13:05:15 UTC+1, James Wilkinson Sword
wrote:
On Wed, 04 Oct 2017 12:21:28 +0100, whisky-dave
wrote:

On Wednesday, 4 October 2017 00:20:32 UTC+1, James Wilkinson Sword
wrote:
On Tue, 03 Oct 2017 23:50:44 +0100, Steve Walker
wrote:

On 03/10/2017 23:28, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
SNAFU. Situation normal, all ****ed up. Nobody thinks before
designing
things.

There may well be a reason - with many traditional locks you can
slide a
button on the inside, which prevents a key being used from the
outside.
The "one key prevents another being inserted" may be a deliberate
feature to "replicate" this function.

Never seen the point in that. I have a traditional Yale type lock
and have never used that button. Why would I wish to prevent
someone (probably myself) with a valid key from unlocking the
door?

I wouldn;t want someone breaking into my place when I was there
what
would be the point of them doing that unles sit was the fire
brigade
or a medical emergancy.
People have used bolts on doors and mortice locks been locked at
night for years I thought most people locked themselves in.

But if the lock works properly and cannot be picked, why do you need
extra steps to prevent someone with a valid key from unlocking it?

What makes you so sure it's a valid key ? whatever that means.
Are skeleton keys valid. ?

Which would mean the lock is rubbish. If you're out of your house,
how
can you lock it from the inside to prevent a key being used?

You can't, but when leaving the house you have to have some way of
getting
back in, but when already in the house you don't need a way to get in
because you're already in.

Leaving your key in the door when you're inside has advanatges too,
such
as in a fire you don't have to go find your key and neither does anyone
else who might happen to be in your house.
There are disadvantages too if someone broke in or could get to yuor
key
through the letter bix like I did once. (although) that was an
advantage
in my case.

I thought that doors only had one key in general use,

What makes you think that ? I knopw couples that have a key each some
even give a key to thier kids when they are old enough.


with the spare key in
some safe place, in which case the problem doesn't arise.

What do you mean in a safe place ?

I have a key in a little combination strong box out side bolted to a wall
not on view from the door.

Makes more sense to do it with your phone now.

If a couple keep
one key each, then if one leaves the house taking the key with them, the
problem doesn't arise.

Which problem is that ?

If one is in the house,

IF.

the other can ring to be let
in.

What happens IF that person dies or is taken seriously ill.

If one of them does not keep the key in their pocket when they leave the
house,

Why wouldn;t they what do you expect tghem to do with it ?


then one of them will not be able to get in - no worse than a single
person forgetting to take the key with them when they leave the house
via an
automatically locking door.

So not much use then is it.

"James Wilkinson Sword" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 12 Oct 2017 13:27:02 +0100, whisky-dave
wrote:

On Thursday, 12 October 2017 12:25:58 UTC+1, Bob Eager wrote:
On Thu, 12 Oct 2017 03:19:14 -0700, whisky-dave wrote:

On Wednesday, 11 October 2017 17:25:28 UTC+1, Bob Eager wrote:
On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 12:21:51 +0100, Dave W wrote:

the other can ring to be let in.

What happens IF that person dies or is taken seriously ill.

You can't get in, either because you left the house by slamming the
Yale lock without having its key, or you left the house via the key
lock we're talking about, and the person put their own key in the
lock after you'd gone.

Which is why I can unlock our front door from my mobile.

Can others .

No. At least, a vrowbar would be easier. It has 2FA.

So no one else can get into your property ? what happens if something
goes wrong with the phone ?, what if someone such as the wife or kids
want to get in ?

I'm glad I don;t have such an inflexable system.

Until someone makes a mobile phone which
.. can handle rain and being dropped on concrete,

There are plenty of phone cases that allow that.

they're unfit for purpose.

Even sillier than you usually manage, and that's saying something.

Mine lives inside my house.

Yes, you are that terminal a ****wit.

"James Wilkinson Sword" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 12 Oct 2017 13:55:32 +0100, Bob Eager wrote:

On Thu, 12 Oct 2017 05:27:02 -0700, whisky-dave wrote:

On Thursday, 12 October 2017 12:25:58 UTC+1, Bob Eager wrote:
On Thu, 12 Oct 2017 03:19:14 -0700, whisky-dave wrote:

On Wednesday, 11 October 2017 17:25:28 UTC+1, Bob Eager wrote:
On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 12:21:51 +0100, Dave W wrote:

the other can ring to be let in.

What happens IF that person dies or is taken seriously ill.

You can't get in, either because you left the house by slamming
the Yale lock without having its key, or you left the house via
the key lock we're talking about, and the person put their own key
in the lock after you'd gone.

Which is why I can unlock our front door from my mobile.

Can others .

No. At least, a vrowbar would be easier. It has 2FA.

So no one else can get into your property ? what happens if something
goes wrong with the phone ?, what if someone such as the wife or kids
want to get in ?

The normal entry method is a key. Those flat metal things.

The family all have the same phone capability.

My method is easier. An RFID tag on my wrist. I can't lose that.

But you can't do anything else with it either.

"James Wilkinson Sword" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 13 Oct 2017 10:43:03 +0100, whisky-dave
wrote:

On Thursday, 12 October 2017 17:24:58 UTC+1, Bob Eager wrote:
On Thu, 12 Oct 2017 07:16:26 -0700, whisky-dave wrote:

On Thursday, 12 October 2017 13:55:34 UTC+1, Bob Eager wrote:
On Thu, 12 Oct 2017 05:27:02 -0700, whisky-dave wrote:

On Thursday, 12 October 2017 12:25:58 UTC+1, Bob Eager wrote:
On Thu, 12 Oct 2017 03:19:14 -0700, whisky-dave wrote:

On Wednesday, 11 October 2017 17:25:28 UTC+1, Bob Eager wrote:
On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 12:21:51 +0100, Dave W wrote:

the other can ring to be let in.

What happens IF that person dies or is taken seriously ill.

You can't get in, either because you left the house by
slamming
the Yale lock without having its key, or you left the house
via
the key lock we're talking about, and the person put their
own
key in the lock after you'd gone.

Which is why I can unlock our front door from my mobile.

Can others .

No. At least, a vrowbar would be easier. It has 2FA.

So no one else can get into your property ? what happens if
something goes wrong with the phone ?, what if someone such as the
wife or kids want to get in ?

The normal entry method is a key. Those flat metal things.

So the same problem as anyone else would have with a key from it
getting
lost stolen or broken.

No.

One can get into the house using a key.

Yes well done anyone can get into the house using the correct key or who
is skilled enough to pick the lock.


If that is lost or stolen, or forgotten, one can use the phone to gain
entry.

and if that lost key is stolen or found then anyone with that key can
also get into your home. a 2FA phone will NOT stop that from happening.


The family all have the same phone capability.

So anyone with the phone can get in too, well hopefully whatever
security is on your phone and everyone else in the family that has it.
Of course we all know phones with such security never get stolen.

You clearly don't understand what 2FA is.

I do I use it, but I wouldn't use it on my front door.

Why not?

Because he's a terminal ****wit too.

James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Fri, 13 Oct 2017 15:37:51 +0100, whisky-dave
wrote:

On Friday, 13 October 2017 12:23:47 UTC+1, FMurtz wrote:

We have a bloke in NSW Australia who cuts the RFID bit out of an opal
card (like oyster card)and inserts it under his skin and the government
keeps cancelling it,don't know how they find out unless someone
reports him.

Ye sthat is starange as in teh winter when it;s cold enough I need to
waer gloves I can put my card in the palm of my hand then the glove
goes over that.
I wave my hand over the yellow sensor and I go through the barrier no
ones ever stopped me and asked me how I do it.

Why on earth would it be against any law or rule to put the chip under
your skin anyway? Presumably he's paid for it in the normal way, he's
just carrying the "card" differently.

I think that it is an offense to interfere with the card.

James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Fri, 13 Oct 2017 15:37:51 +0100, whisky-dave
wrote:

On Friday, 13 October 2017 12:23:47 UTC+1, FMurtz wrote:




We have a bloke in NSW Australia who cuts the RFID bit out of an opal
card (like oyster card)and inserts it under his skin and the government
keeps cancelling it,don't know how they find out unless someone
reports him.

Ye sthat is starange as in teh winter when it;s cold enough I need to
waer gloves I can put my card in the palm of my hand then the glove
goes over that.
I wave my hand over the yellow sensor and I go through the barrier no
ones ever stopped me and asked me how I do it.

Found him. Doesn't say anything about cancelling.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/articl...under-his-skin


http://www.skynews.com.au/news/natio...cancelled.html

http://punkee.com.au/guys-opal-card-...horities/29558

Don't know current state of affairs,not sure if their software will pick
it up or the operator will dob him in when he tops it up

James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Fri, 13 Oct 2017 15:43:02 +0100, whisky-dave
wrote:

On Friday, 13 October 2017 12:27:31 UTC+1, FMurtz wrote:
whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 4 October 2017 19:34:20 UTC+1, Max Demian wrote:
On 04/10/2017 14:45, whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 4 October 2017 13:05:15 UTC+1, James Wilkinson
Sword wrote:
On Wed, 04 Oct 2017 12:21:28 +0100, whisky-dave
wrote:
On Wednesday, 4 October 2017 00:20:32 UTC+1, James Wilkinson
Sword wrote:
On Tue, 03 Oct 2017 23:50:44 +0100, Steve Walker
wrote:
On 03/10/2017 23:28, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:

SNAFU. Situation normal, all ****ed up. Nobody thinks
before designing
things.

There may well be a reason - with many traditional locks you
can slide a
button on the inside, which prevents a key being used from
the outside.
The "one key prevents another being inserted" may be a
deliberate
feature to "replicate" this function.

Never seen the point in that. I have a traditional Yale type
lock and have never used that button. Why would I wish to prevent
someone (probably myself) with a valid key from unlocking the door?

I wouldn;t want someone breaking into my place when I was there
what would be the point of them doing that unles sit was the fire
brigade or a medical emergancy.
People have used bolts on doors and mortice locks been locked
at night for years I thought most people locked themselves in.

But if the lock works properly and cannot be picked, why do you
need extra steps to prevent someone with a valid key from unlocking it?

What makes you so sure it's a valid key ? whatever that means.
Are skeleton keys valid. ?

Skeleton keys only work with simple, warded locks, only used on sheds
these days.

Not true as a friend of mine was a locksmith and he can get through
certain doors without needing to drill out the locks.


He could pick them or they are master keyed,I can get in most sydney
electrical meter rooms with the same key.

I can get into every electrical riser cupboard in the colleg using my
power riser key which is the same for everyone.
These padlocks and keys were hanout out to everyone with a room with
such a riser when they found out someone was climbing up the risers
and breaking into offices, so everyone had to lock their riser
cupboard. But security and everyone else said they should be
accessable to anyone in the building that might need acess to them, so
we brought 1000s of same keyed padlocks which we've had for about 7
years now without any problems.

What's in this cupboard you need to access? A fusebox?

And pipes and wiring.

"FMurtz" wrote in message
web.com...
James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Fri, 13 Oct 2017 15:37:51 +0100, whisky-dave
wrote:

On Friday, 13 October 2017 12:23:47 UTC+1, FMurtz wrote:

We have a bloke in NSW Australia who cuts the RFID bit out of an opal
card (like oyster card)and inserts it under his skin and the government
keeps cancelling it,don't know how they find out unless someone
reports him.

Ye sthat is starange as in teh winter when it;s cold enough I need to
waer gloves I can put my card in the palm of my hand then the glove
goes over that.
I wave my hand over the yellow sensor and I go through the barrier no
ones ever stopped me and asked me how I do it.

Why on earth would it be against any law or rule to put the chip under
your skin anyway? Presumably he's paid for it in the normal way, he's
just carrying the "card" differently.

I think that it is an offense to interfere with the card.

No it isnt and the card has never been cancelled.

"FMurtz" wrote in message
eb.com...
James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Fri, 13 Oct 2017 15:37:51 +0100, whisky-dave
wrote:

On Friday, 13 October 2017 12:23:47 UTC+1, FMurtz wrote:




We have a bloke in NSW Australia who cuts the RFID bit out of an opal
card (like oyster card)and inserts it under his skin and the government
keeps cancelling it,don't know how they find out unless someone
reports him.

Ye sthat is starange as in teh winter when it;s cold enough I need to
waer gloves I can put my card in the palm of my hand then the glove
goes over that.
I wave my hand over the yellow sensor and I go through the barrier no
ones ever stopped me and asked me how I do it.

Found him. Doesn't say anything about cancelling.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/articl...under-his-skin

http://www.skynews.com.au/news/natio...cancelled.html

The implanted card wasn't cancelled.

http://punkee.com.au/guys-opal-card-...horities/29558

Don't know current state of affairs,not sure if their software will pick
it up

Not possible with an unregistered card.

or the operator will dob him in when he tops it up

Why would they ?

On Mon, 16 Oct 2017 14:44:23 +0100, Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson"),
the pathological attention whore of all the uk ngs, blathered again:

FLUSH sick idiot's sick idiotic drivel unread


--
More of Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson") deep thinking:
"I have never seen a washing machine which can handle a sofa."
MID:

On Friday, 13 October 2017 17:40:51 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Thursday, 12 October 2017 17:24:58 UTC+1, Bob Eager wrote:
On Thu, 12 Oct 2017 07:16:26 -0700, whisky-dave wrote:

On Thursday, 12 October 2017 13:55:34 UTC+1, Bob Eager wrote:
On Thu, 12 Oct 2017 05:27:02 -0700, whisky-dave wrote:

On Thursday, 12 October 2017 12:25:58 UTC+1, Bob Eager wrote:
On Thu, 12 Oct 2017 03:19:14 -0700, whisky-dave wrote:

On Wednesday, 11 October 2017 17:25:28 UTC+1, Bob Eager wrote:
On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 12:21:51 +0100, Dave W wrote:

the other can ring to be let in.

What happens IF that person dies or is taken seriously ill.

You can't get in, either because you left the house by
slamming
the Yale lock without having its key, or you left the house
via
the key lock we're talking about, and the person put their own
key in the lock after you'd gone.

Which is why I can unlock our front door from my mobile.

Can others .

No. At least, a vrowbar would be easier. It has 2FA.

So no one else can get into your property ? what happens if
something goes wrong with the phone ?, what if someone such as the
wife or kids want to get in ?

The normal entry method is a key. Those flat metal things.

So the same problem as anyone else would have with a key from it
getting
lost stolen or broken.

No.

One can get into the house using a key.

can you get into the house using an app on the phone.


If that is lost or stolen, or forgotten, one can use the phone to gain
entry.

I suppose no one else can use a phonme and app to get in either

Corse they can't when they cant do the Touch ID on the phone
or supply the passcode the phone requires to allow it to be used.

Most phones don't have touch ID and if yuo forget your phone....


are you the only person in the world that can do this app and phone trick
?

With that particular phone and lock, yep, you pathetic excuse for a troll.

You're talking **** and donlt know much about the systems used.

So what is this magic system you use ?