On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 11:00:19 GMT, Harry Bloomfield
wrote:

has brought this to us :
Whether the actual lamps differ from the 230 ones coming out of the
same Chinese factory I would not know.

230v spec lamps do not survive long on 240v.

Depends if the sellers care.

TBH I think Dennis's comment was really about a non issue.
As the incandescent lamp appears be rapidly being replaced by LED some
seem like a lot of modern stuff to have a wider voltage range .

I was surprised at not being able to easily find a stockist of
incandescent lamps in India to compare with, the government appears to
have discouraged their use fairly vigorously by subsidising other
types until the sheer quantity of sales for LED dropped the unit cost.

G.Harman

In article ,
Graham. wrote:
That's European harmonised supply ********.

True. It makes far more sense for every country in the world to use a
different type of supply. Called taking back control. Why make things easy
for the countries we import all our electrical goods from? Far better they
have to be specially made for us. And they pay for that. They can pay for
our wall across the channel too.

--
*Why do overlook and oversee mean opposite things? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Scott wrote:
On Sat, 11 Feb 2017 19:48:54 +0000, Max Demian
wrote:

On 11/02/2017 19:05, Brian Gaff wrote:
No but I'd often wondered why the combined brains of the world could
not come up with a better lampholder design than ES or BC, one that
does not leave the contacts directly exposed when no bulb is present.

It's OK because lamp-holders are all high up so the kids can't stick
their fingers in.

Not if they are part of a table lamp.

If a kid is old enough to remove a BC bulb, they should be old enough to
know not to stick their fingers in it.

But if you are really concerned about safety, fit an appropriate RCD. But
don't expect others to have to pay extra for stupid parents.

--
*One nice thing about egotists: they don't talk about other people.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Roger Hayter explained on 11/02/2017 :
Those evil foreigners who are trying to stop us having real English
posh rulers to tug our forelocks to all use 230V

After Brexit, can we all go back to our Imperial 240v please?

You must be one of those who think our voltage was changed by EU regs. A
Mail reader?

--
*I feel like I'm diagonally parked in a parallel universe*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article l.net,
Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sat, 11 Feb 2017 06:22:07 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

*extra* low voltage ? :-)

That'll be a right bugger for theatres and sports stadia.

Sports stadia, yeah. At EPL stadiums each luminaire is 2 kW so that's
40A @ 50 V and there are around 200 of these luminairs... For top
flight Champions League or FIFA matches the lights must not go out,
full stop. Stadiums these days have twinset on site generation which
is hot from about three hours before kick off.

Does the 18th edition cover commercial lighting installations?

Any club with any sense has those sets available to the grid under
STOR. They are only needed for their primary purpose for 6 hours
every week or so...

--
*Organized Crime Is Alive And Well; It's Called Auto Insurance.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 11:43:07 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Scott wrote:
On Sat, 11 Feb 2017 19:48:54 +0000, Max Demian
wrote:

On 11/02/2017 19:05, Brian Gaff wrote:
No but I'd often wondered why the combined brains of the world could
not come up with a better lampholder design than ES or BC, one that
does not leave the contacts directly exposed when no bulb is present.

It's OK because lamp-holders are all high up so the kids can't stick
their fingers in.

Not if they are part of a table lamp.

If a kid is old enough to remove a BC bulb, they should be old enough to
know not to stick their fingers in it.

But if you are really concerned about safety, fit an appropriate RCD. But
don't expect others to have to pay extra for stupid parents.

I'm not concerned at all. Anyway, I thought an RCD only detected
leakage to earth so why would touching both terminals trip an RCD?

On Sunday, 12 February 2017 11:14:29 UTC, wrote:
On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 11:00:19 GMT, Harry Bloomfield
wrote:
has brought this to us :

Whether the actual lamps differ from the 230 ones coming out of the
same Chinese factory I would not know.

230v spec lamps do not survive long on 240v.

Depends if the sellers care.

I've never yet seen 220/230/240v filament lamps labeled as the wrong voltage. I have however seen no shortage of people that don't understand filament lamps & mains voltage.


NT

On 12/02/2017 07:42, wrote:
On Saturday, 11 February 2017 22:44:38 UTC, Roger Hayter wrote:
dennis@home wrote:
On 11/02/2017 22:25, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Roger Hayter explained on 11/02/2017 :

Those evil foreigners who are trying to stop us having real English posh
rulers to tug our forelocks to all use 230V

After Brexit, can we all go back to our Imperial 240v please?

I want to continue with the 230V as the stuff will be cheaper than
having the limited 240V market.

But we've never changed from 240V, we just *call* it 230V now.

It's amazing how many people think we actually have 230v at the socket.


NT


At about 18:00 the voltage on my energy meter quite often says ~230V.
I have seen it down at 229V but not often.
That's before I switch on the oven, hob or kettle.

dennis@home wrote:

On 12/02/2017 07:42, wrote:
On Saturday, 11 February 2017 22:44:38 UTC, Roger Hayter wrote:
dennis@home wrote:
On 11/02/2017 22:25, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Roger Hayter explained on 11/02/2017 :

Those evil foreigners who are trying to stop us having real English posh
rulers to tug our forelocks to all use 230V

After Brexit, can we all go back to our Imperial 240v please?

I want to continue with the 230V as the stuff will be cheaper than
having the limited 240V market.

But we've never changed from 240V, we just *call* it 230V now.

It's amazing how many people think we actually have 230v at the socket.


NT


At about 18:00 the voltage on my energy meter quite often says ~230V.
I have seen it down at 229V but not often.
That's before I switch on the oven, hob or kettle.

And mine used to be from 246 to 253. Still in spec for both the 230V
and the old 240V standards.

--

Roger Hayter

On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 13:40:46 +0000, (Roger Hayter)
wrote:

dennis@home wrote:

On 12/02/2017 07:42, wrote:
On Saturday, 11 February 2017 22:44:38 UTC, Roger Hayter wrote:
dennis@home wrote:
On 11/02/2017 22:25, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Roger Hayter explained on 11/02/2017 :

Those evil foreigners who are trying to stop us having real English posh
rulers to tug our forelocks to all use 230V

After Brexit, can we all go back to our Imperial 240v please?

I want to continue with the 230V as the stuff will be cheaper than
having the limited 240V market.

But we've never changed from 240V, we just *call* it 230V now.

It's amazing how many people think we actually have 230v at the socket.


NT


At about 18:00 the voltage on my energy meter quite often says ~230V.
I have seen it down at 229V but not often.
That's before I switch on the oven, hob or kettle.

And mine used to be from 246 to 253. Still in spec for both the 230V
and the old 240V standards.

I'm sure as a child I was told it was 250V. Was that ever true or was
my granny exaggerating to scare me :-)

On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 10:43:07 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

On Sat, 11 Feb 2017 06:22:07 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

*extra* low voltage ? :-)

That'll be a right bugger for theatres and sports stadia.

Sports stadia, yeah. At EPL stadiums each luminaire is 2 kW so that's
40A @ 50 V and there are around 200 of these luminairs... For top
flight Champions League or FIFA matches the lights must not go out,
full stop. Stadiums these days have twinset on site generation which
is hot from about three hours before kick off.

Any club with any sense has those sets available to the grid under
STOR. They are only needed for their primary purpose for 6 hours
every week or so...

Wasn't there a betting fraud case a few years ago, that worked by
literally hacking the floodlight control system?

--

Graham.
%Profound_observation%

On 12/02/2017 11:43, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Scott wrote:
On Sat, 11 Feb 2017 19:48:54 +0000, Max Demian
wrote:
On 11/02/2017 19:05, Brian Gaff wrote:

No but I'd often wondered why the combined brains of the world could
not come up with a better lampholder design than ES or BC, one that
does not leave the contacts directly exposed when no bulb is present.

It's OK because lamp-holders are all high up so the kids can't stick
their fingers in.

Not if they are part of a table lamp.

If a kid is old enough to remove a BC bulb, they should be old enough to
know not to stick their fingers in it.

But if you are really concerned about safety, fit an appropriate RCD. But
don't expect others to have to pay extra for stupid parents.

Has anyone tested RCDs on children? ;-

--
Max Demian

On Sunday, 12 February 2017 14:31:04 UTC, Max Demian wrote:
On 12/02/2017 11:43, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Scott wrote:
On Sat, 11 Feb 2017 19:48:54 +0000, Max Demian
wrote:
On 11/02/2017 19:05, Brian Gaff wrote:

No but I'd often wondered why the combined brains of the world could
not come up with a better lampholder design than ES or BC, one that
does not leave the contacts directly exposed when no bulb is present.

It's OK because lamp-holders are all high up so the kids can't stick
their fingers in.

Not if they are part of a table lamp.

If a kid is old enough to remove a BC bulb, they should be old enough to
know not to stick their fingers in it.

But if you are really concerned about safety, fit an appropriate RCD. But
don't expect others to have to pay extra for stupid parents.

Has anyone tested RCDs on children? ;-

I've not seen the nazi 'research' I believe the 30mA trip threshold is based on, but I expect they probably did.

In article ,
Huge wrote:
We went to India on holiday some 5 years ago and I was surprised not to
see a single incandescent lamp while we were there. It was CFLs
everywhere.

Very first time I went abroad (to Portugal) in the '60s, was surprised to
see just about everywhere lit by fluorescents. Presumably because the
relative costs of electricity were very much higher than the UK they
wanted the best bang for their buck.

--
*A bartender is just a pharmacist with a limited inventory.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Scott wrote:
But if you are really concerned about safety, fit an appropriate RCD. But
don't expect others to have to pay extra for stupid parents.

I'm not concerned at all. Anyway, I thought an RCD only detected
leakage to earth so why would touching both terminals trip an RCD?

You thought wrong.

--
*We never really grow up, we only learn how to act in public.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 15:16:42 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Scott wrote:
But if you are really concerned about safety, fit an appropriate RCD. But
don't expect others to have to pay extra for stupid parents.

I'm not concerned at all. Anyway, I thought an RCD only detected
leakage to earth so why would touching both terminals trip an RCD?

You thought wrong.

http://www.electricalsafetyfirst.org...cds-explained/
appears to disagree with you.

In article ,
Scott wrote:
On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 15:16:42 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Scott wrote:
But if you are really concerned about safety, fit an appropriate RCD.
But
don't expect others to have to pay extra for stupid parents.

I'm not concerned at all. Anyway, I thought an RCD only detected
leakage to earth so why would touching both terminals trip an RCD?

You thought wrong.

http://www.electricalsafetyfirst.org...cds-explained/
appears to disagree with you.

Then it's wrong too.

A device which detects leakage to earth is an ELCB.

An RCD looks for differential current between line and neutral. Which, of
course, may be caused by a leakage to earth.

--
*A dog's not just for Christmas, it's alright on a Friday night too*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Scott wrote:
But if you are really concerned about safety, fit an appropriate RCD. But
don't expect others to have to pay extra for stupid parents.

I'm not concerned at all. Anyway, I thought an RCD only detected
leakage to earth so why would touching both terminals trip an RCD?

You thought wrong.

I thought actually he was right, but that the average human who is not
currently hanging from a very well insulated overhead structure tends to
have quite a low impedance to earth.

--

Roger Hayter

On 12/02/2017 10:43, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sat, 11 Feb 2017 06:22:07 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

*extra* low voltage ? :-)

That'll be a right bugger for theatres and sports stadia.

Sports stadia, yeah. At EPL stadiums each luminaire is 2 kW so that's
40A @ 50 V and there are around 200 of these luminairs... For top
flight Champions League or FIFA matches the lights must not go out,
full stop. Stadiums these days have twinset on site generation which
is hot from about three hours before kick off.

They also have an on site electrician.

--
Adam

presented the following explanation :
I've never yet seen 220/230/240v filament lamps labeled as the wrong voltage.
I have however seen no shortage of people that don't understand filament
lamps & mains voltage.

I have seen lots of filament lamps sold in the UK, but intended for
230v. Aldi sold some a few years ago and I bought some from an ebay
seller in the UK. They don't survive long.

Likewise, a friend bought some LED's specced for 230v which soon died.
Now I always check the intended voltage rather than assume they are
correct.

Dave Plowman (News) expressed precisely :
You must be one of those who think our voltage was changed by EU regs. A
Mail reader?

Not at all, it was a joke, its just that so many now believe we are on
a UK local voltage of 230v.

On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 15:49:15 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Scott wrote:
On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 15:16:42 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Scott wrote:
But if you are really concerned about safety, fit an appropriate RCD.
But
don't expect others to have to pay extra for stupid parents.

I'm not concerned at all. Anyway, I thought an RCD only detected
leakage to earth so why would touching both terminals trip an RCD?

You thought wrong.

http://www.electricalsafetyfirst.org...cds-explained/
appears to disagree with you.

Then it's wrong too.

A device which detects leakage to earth is an ELCB.

An RCD looks for differential current between line and neutral. Which, of
course, may be caused by a leakage to earth.

Okay, thanks very much.

Dave Plowman (News) submitted this idea :
In article ,
Scott wrote:
But if you are really concerned about safety, fit an appropriate RCD. But
don't expect others to have to pay extra for stupid parents.

I'm not concerned at all. Anyway, I thought an RCD only detected
leakage to earth so why would touching both terminals trip an RCD?

You thought wrong.

You obviously misunderstand how RCD's operate..

Dave Plowman (News) formulated the question :
Then it's wrong too.

A device which detects leakage to earth is an ELCB.

An RCD looks for differential current between line and neutral. Which, of
course, may be caused by a leakage to earth.

Which means that if there is no leakage to earth, contact just across L
to N could well mean no leakage to earth, that it would not operate.

Roger Hayter used his keyboard to write :
I thought actually he was right, but that the average human who is not
currently hanging from a very well insulated overhead structure tends to
have quite a low impedance to earth.

In a home environment there tends not to be not that many good paths to
earth. Carpets, upholstery, wood furniture and wood floors are all
pretty good insulators when dry - not much chance there of an RCD
tripping.

Dave Liquorice explained :
On Sat, 11 Feb 2017 23:40:33 -0800 (PST), wrote:

It's OK because lamp-holders are all high up so the kids can't stick
their fingers in.

Wrong answer. I think I was 6.

Ditto...

My first shock was around that age, from the grill of an electric
cooker, trying to light a match. A modern toaster also has bare
elements, but perhaps less easy to make contact with.

On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 11:14:26 +0000, wrote:

230v spec lamps do not survive long on 240v.

As the incandescent lamp appears be rapidly being replaced by LED some
seem like a lot of modern stuff to have a wider voltage range .

It may have ben coincidence but when the local primary substation was
being fed via the 11 kV backup circuit and our overnight voltage sat
at 253 or a shade over for 6 hours or so. Two LED bulbs that are on
24/7 failed... Failure mode was the LED chips falling off the
board/heatsink they were mounted on.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 19:17:27 GMT, Harry Bloomfield wrote:

I thought actually he was right, but that the average human who is
not
currently hanging from a very well insulated overhead structure
tends
to have quite a low impedance to earth.

In a home environment there tends not to be not that many good paths to
earth. Carpets, upholstery, wood furniture and wood floors are all
pretty good insulators when dry - not much chance there of an RCD
tripping.

If the resistance to "earth" is less than 7.6 k ohms a 30 mA RCD will
trip. In a modern home with lots of kit with SMPSUs and their
associated mains filters all leaking the allowed mA a nominal 30 mA
RCD may only need an extra 20 mA or less to trip. 230 V will push 20
mA through 11.5 k ohms.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 16:07:37 +0000, ARW wrote:

Sports stadia, yeah. At EPL stadiums each luminaire is 2 kW so
that's
40A @ 50 V and there are around 200 of these luminairs... For top
flight Champions League or FIFA matches the lights must not go
out,
full stop. Stadiums these days have twinset on site generation
which
is hot from about three hours before kick off.

They also have an on site electrician.

Who earnt his money at Sunderland's "Stadium of Light" not so long
ago. Ordinary live to world (but not the UK) EPL fixture, so lights
are allowed to go out but should come back on again within 10
minutes, ie about how long they have to cool before being restruck
(they are "arc lamps" most variations won't restrike when hot).

--
Cheers
Dave.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Scott wrote:
On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 15:16:42 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Scott wrote:
But if you are really concerned about safety, fit an appropriate RCD.
But
don't expect others to have to pay extra for stupid parents.

I'm not concerned at all. Anyway, I thought an RCD only detected
leakage to earth so why would touching both terminals trip an RCD?

You thought wrong.

http://www.electricalsafetyfirst.org...electrical-ite
ms/rcds-explained/ appears to disagree with you.

Then it's wrong too.

A device which detects leakage to earth is an ELCB.

An RCD looks for differential current between line and neutral. Which, of
course, may be caused by a leakage to earth.

But will *not* be caused by connecting a person between live and
neutral.

--

Roger Hayter

On Sunday, 12 February 2017 18:42:44 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Scott wrote:
On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 15:16:42 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:
In article ,
Scott wrote:
But if you are really concerned about safety, fit an appropriate RCD.
But
don't expect others to have to pay extra for stupid parents.

I'm not concerned at all. Anyway, I thought an RCD only detected
leakage to earth so why would touching both terminals trip an RCD?

You thought wrong.

http://www.electricalsafetyfirst.org...cds-explained/
appears to disagree with you.

Then it's wrong too.

A device which detects leakage to earth is an ELCB.

An RCD looks for differential current between line and neutral. Which, of
course, may be caused by a leakage to earth.

I bet we're all curious where else you think the current imbalance goes.


NT

On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 20:32:06 +0000, Roger Hayter wrote:

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Scott wrote:
On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 15:16:42 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Scott wrote:
But if you are really concerned about safety, fit an appropriate
RCD.
But
don't expect others to have to pay extra for stupid parents.

I'm not concerned at all. Anyway, I thought an RCD only detected
leakage to earth so why would touching both terminals trip an RCD?

You thought wrong.

http://www.electricalsafetyfirst.org...ce/electrical-
ite
ms/rcds-explained/ appears to disagree with you.

Then it's wrong too.

A device which detects leakage to earth is an ELCB.

An RCD looks for differential current between line and neutral. Which,
of course, may be caused by a leakage to earth.

But will *not* be caused by connecting a person between live and
neutral.

Unless said person also has at least a partial path to earth.



--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

Bob Eager wrote:

On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 20:32:06 +0000, Roger Hayter wrote:

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Scott wrote:
On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 15:16:42 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Scott wrote:
But if you are really concerned about safety, fit an appropriate
RCD.
But
don't expect others to have to pay extra for stupid parents.

I'm not concerned at all. Anyway, I thought an RCD only detected
leakage to earth so why would touching both terminals trip an RCD?

You thought wrong.

http://www.electricalsafetyfirst.org...ce/electrical-
ite
ms/rcds-explained/ appears to disagree with you.

Then it's wrong too.

A device which detects leakage to earth is an ELCB.

An RCD looks for differential current between line and neutral. Which,
of course, may be caused by a leakage to earth.

But will *not* be caused by connecting a person between live and
neutral.

Unless said person also has at least a partial path to earth.

If I am specifying a circuit I would generally be implying no
connections other than those I specified. But your point is a good one,
and made nearby in this thread.

--

Roger Hayter

In article ,
Roger Hayter wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Scott wrote:
On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 15:16:42 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article , Scott
wrote:
But if you are really concerned about safety, fit an appropriate
RCD. But
don't expect others to have to pay extra for stupid parents.

I'm not concerned at all. Anyway, I thought an RCD only detected
leakage to earth so why would touching both terminals trip an RCD?

You thought wrong.

http://www.electricalsafetyfirst.org...electrical-ite
ms/rcds-explained/ appears to disagree with you.

Then it's wrong too.

A device which detects leakage to earth is an ELCB.

An RCD looks for differential current between line and neutral. Which,
of course, may be caused by a leakage to earth.

But will *not* be caused by connecting a person between live and neutral.

A whole house RCD can trip on a neutral fault in a circuit with a single
pole MCB to that circuit switched off - so no connection to the line at
all.

--
*When the chips are down, the buffalo is empty*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sat, 11 Feb 2017 22:44:36 +0000, Roger Hayter wrote:

dennis@home wrote:

On 11/02/2017 22:25, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Roger Hayter explained on 11/02/2017 :
Those evil foreigners who are trying to stop us having real English
posh rulers to tug our forelocks to all use 230V

After Brexit, can we all go back to our Imperial 240v please?

I want to continue with the 230V as the stuff will be cheaper than
having the limited 240V market.

But we've never changed from 240V, we just *call* it 230V now.

I was wondering when that particular *fact* would finally be
mentioned. :-)

If you care to take a close look at the marked voltage rating on
virtually *any* UK mains voltage tungsten filament incandescent lamp, you
will see the voltage specified as 240v and *not* 230v (likewise on the
continent where 220v mains is in common use you'll see lamps rated for
220v, *not* the harmonised 230v).

If proof was needed that the 'harmonised 230v' is voltage in name only,
the extreme sensitivity of the tungsten filament incandescent lamp to
voltage variations' on both lamp life and efficacy is all the proof you
need that your actual mains supply voltage is what is marked on the GLS
tungsten filament lamps on sale in your local shops.

If you do happen to spot a rogue 230v example, check out a few of the
alternative wattage rated lamps on the shop shelves for comparison before
assuming that your local mains supply has actually been reduced in
reality and not merely in name.

--
Johnny B Good

On Sat, 11 Feb 2017 23:28:17 +0000, dennis@home wrote:

On 11/02/2017 22:44, Roger Hayter wrote:
dennis@home wrote:

On 11/02/2017 22:25, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Roger Hayter explained on 11/02/2017 :
Those evil foreigners who are trying to stop us having real English
posh rulers to tug our forelocks to all use 230V

After Brexit, can we all go back to our Imperial 240v please?

I want to continue with the 230V as the stuff will be cheaper than
having the limited 240V market.

But we've never changed from 240V, we just *call* it 230V now.


But if they have to mark everything 240V rather than 230V its going to
put up the price. Not that paying more has any effect on brexiteers.

Incandescent lamps have always been marked with the exact voltage
they've been designed to operate from in order to achieve the specified
average life (1000 hours in the UK and 750 hours in the USA) and a
specified Lumens output. Just about everything else will tolerate the
wider voltage range without undue hindrance to both service life and
performance.

All that has happened is that the minimum and maximum voltage limits
have been centred on the notional 'harmonised 230v' leaving the existing
240v UK and 220v European supplies to carry on operating at 240 and 220
volts respectively but maintained within new tolerance limits that are
identical regardless of the target 240 and 220 volt supply voltages in
actual use.

Unless there is a sudden policy decision to revert our 240v UK tolerance
limits back to pre-harmonisation limits, the manufacturers can carry on
selling "230v" rated appliances without any re-labelling costs. In the
unlikely event that a choice is made to revert back to pre-harmonisation
limits, it's very likely to be done with plenty of advance notice to the
manufacturers who can then introduce the new labelling as and when they
retool for new models of electrical goods, neatly avoiding the minor
expense in relabelling existing product.

It's very likely that both the UK and the continent will carry on
working to the harmonisation tolerances with the UK still using 240v
filament lamps leaving our continental cousins to carry on using 220v
filament lamps.

--
Johnny B Good

On Monday, 13 February 2017 00:48:18 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Roger Hayter wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Scott wrote:
On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 15:16:42 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:
In article , Scott
wrote:
But if you are really concerned about safety, fit an appropriate
RCD. But
don't expect others to have to pay extra for stupid parents.

I'm not concerned at all. Anyway, I thought an RCD only detected
leakage to earth so why would touching both terminals trip an RCD?

You thought wrong.

http://www.electricalsafetyfirst.org...electrical-ite
ms/rcds-explained/ appears to disagree with you.

Then it's wrong too.

A device which detects leakage to earth is an ELCB.

An RCD looks for differential current between line and neutral. Which,
of course, may be caused by a leakage to earth.

But will *not* be caused by connecting a person between live and neutral.

A whole house RCD can trip on a neutral fault in a circuit with a single
pole MCB to that circuit switched off - so no connection to the line at
all.

Yes... though that is seldom what happens.


NT

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Roger Hayter wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Scott wrote:
On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 15:16:42 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article , Scott
wrote:
But if you are really concerned about safety, fit an appropriate
RCD. But
don't expect others to have to pay extra for stupid parents.

I'm not concerned at all. Anyway, I thought an RCD only detected
leakage to earth so why would touching both terminals trip an RCD?

You thought wrong.

http://www.electricalsafetyfirst.org...electrical-ite
ms/rcds-explained/ appears to disagree with you.

Then it's wrong too.

A device which detects leakage to earth is an ELCB.

An RCD looks for differential current between line and neutral. Which,
of course, may be caused by a leakage to earth.

But will *not* be caused by connecting a person between live and neutral.

A whole house RCD can trip on a neutral fault in a circuit with a single
pole MCB to that circuit switched off - so no connection to the line at
all.

And isn't it a nuisance too? But it is still leakage to earth.


--

Roger Hayter

In article ,
Roger Hayter wrote:
A whole house RCD can trip on a neutral fault in a circuit with a
single pole MCB to that circuit switched off - so no connection to the
line at all.

And isn't it a nuisance too? But it is still leakage to earth.

Have your own way. So no difference between an ELCB and RCD.

--
*Everybody lies, but it doesn't matter since nobody listens*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Roger Hayter wrote:
A whole house RCD can trip on a neutral fault in a circuit with a
single pole MCB to that circuit switched off - so no connection to the
line at all.

And isn't it a nuisance too? But it is still leakage to earth.

Have your own way. So no difference between an ELCB and RCD.

I suppose that that is what makes RCDs useful.


--

Roger Hayter